A Middle Grade Mermaid Fantasy with Lisa Stringfellow - A Comb of Wishes

Marissa and her favorite co-hosts - Sloane and Delaney - chat with Lisa Stringfellow about her debut middle grade novel - A COMB OF WISHES - as well as drawing on mermaid stories and folklore from around the world to create merpeople that feel both new and familiar; some of the "rules" of writing middle grade fiction, and how sometimes you need to listen to your own instincts in deciding what rules to break and how far to push those boundaries; reading your work aloud as a helpful editing tool, both to establish a pleasant cadence in the language but also to make sure what you want to say is really coming across to the reader; using traditional oral storytelling techniques in the written word to help establish a relationship between the reader and the writer; and how teachers can use NaNoWriMo's Young Writer's Program to inspire their students and create a community of writers in the classroom.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:12

Hello, and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast at aims to bring readers, more books, to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. Thank you so much for joining us. I am your host Marisa Meyer. And today I am joined by my favorite two co-hosts, uh, girls, do you wanna say hi?

Speaker 2: 0:32

Yes, we would love to mm-hmm<affirmative>. Hi, my name is Dela and I am seven and I'm really glad to be here. And my name is Sloan. I'm also seven, her twin sister. Um, and I'm really glad to be here too with my sister and all of you guys. So yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:01

Thank you girl. So one thing that's making me happy this week is, is tomorrow. The day after this recording is world read aloud day, and it is perfect timing because reading to the girls, uh, as I'm sure many of you know is one of my favorite parenty things to do. And as much as I love picture books, I was very happy when their attention spans started to grow and got long enough that we could get started on some fun chapter books and now some middle grade. Um, and we've read some really awesome ones lately, including the book that we are going to be talking about today. Um, I'd say it might be my favorite book that I have read to the girls so far. We have loved it. Uh, so I'm just so excited. So world read aloud day, of course, in our house, it kind of feels like read aloud day all the time. Uh, Sloan what's making you happy this week.

Speaker 2: 1:58

Well, this week I got lots of rollering in with my sister and that's, what's making me happy.

Speaker 1: 2:06

How about you do up

Speaker 2: 2:08

Today is making me happy. Cause I'm all here with my bestest bestest sister and my bestest mom, and I'm really glad to be here.

Speaker 1: 2:21

<laugh> uh, and of course we are so happy to be talking to today's guest, a graduate from Dartmouth college, with a BA in English and a master of arts in education. She has been a teacher for more than 27 years. Her debut middle grade novel, a com of wishes comes up tomorrow on February 8th, please welcome Lisa Stringfellow. Hello. And it's so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. We are very thrilled to be here. Very excited to talk to you. Uh, as I said, we've been reading this book for the past week or so, um, at our bedtimes and we actually haven't finished it. We only have like, I don't know, maybe like 40 or 50 pages to go. It is super intense and we were up way past our bedtime last night, trying to get to the end, but we couldn't do it. Aw. So we will be finishing it tonight and I'm really excited to see how it goes.

Speaker 3: 3:20

Yay. I'm excited for you.<laugh>

Speaker 1: 3:22

So Lisa, why don't we start with you telling listeners what is a com of wishes about

Speaker 3: 3:29

Thank you. I will, um, Acomb of wishes is about 12 year old Kela who has recently lost her mother, uh, and she is grieving for her and trying to find her new way in the world. One of her hobbies is collecting sea glass. And so she is out on the beach one day and she's joined by her very best friend, a girl named li who she kind of had been pushing away, um, as she's been dealing with with the loss of her mom, but she, and Lissy start exploring and collecting glass and Kela hears a mysterious sound in the distance and she follows it and it leads it to her coral cave where she finds a box and the box seems to hum, and she's just full of curiosity and she knows she shouldn't take it, but she feels like she's lost everything. And so she does. And when she opens it, it connects her to a dangerous mermaid named EDIA who wants back what's inside of the box, which is McComb and Kela, um, is allowed to make a wish in exchange for returning the comb to a video. And of course the thing that she wants more than anything else is for her mom to come back. So that's it, it's just a story of love and, um, there's a lot of adventure in it as well. Um, and magic and

Speaker 2: 5:00

Also scary<laugh> and I scariness<laugh>

Speaker 3: 5:08

OIA is not a, a super nice mermaid at the beginning. So yeah, she can be a little scary.

Speaker 1: 5:15

It's not your typical Disney mermaid for sure. No. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:19

I really was hoping that that's kinda made in the story would be like, oh, I, I have a special car I'm with this girl, use it and make a wish.

Speaker 1: 5:35

That's not all what she's is.

Speaker 3: 5:37

That's not her<laugh>.

Speaker 1: 5:41

Um, so I of course have lots of questions and lots of things I wanna talk about, but I'm gonna let the girls ask their questions first. Uh, Delaney, did you wanna go first?

Speaker 2: 5:51

Yeah. Why did you make the book so scary?<laugh>

Speaker 3: 5:56

<laugh> that is such a good question. And I guess the reason is, um, when I was thinking about what to write about, I had this idea of writing a story with a mermaid and I had read a book called the tale of Emily WAP, which is about a girl who discovers that cheese part mermaid. Um, but that book was a little, you know, happier, more upbeat, but I had read another book called Coline. Um, and that book had a girl who was by herself and was exploring, but it a little bit darker. And there's a character in that book who is Coline's other mother who was a little scary. And I kinda thought, wouldn't it be interesting to combine those, those ideas to have kind of a little bit of a scary mermaid story? Um, Tedia is she's scary, but she's not really bad. She has her reason for why she's kind of angry and grumpy, but, um, I thought that would be kind of mermaid. So that's why I made it a little bit scary.<laugh> I

Speaker 1: 7:03

Love that. I love that coralline was one of the influences. I pretty much think that the movie coralline is the scariest thing I've ever seen in my life. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 7:13

It's yes. I agree.

Speaker 1: 7:17

So did you wanna ask one of your questions? Oh,

Speaker 2: 7:20

Sure. Um, so one of my questions is why is Kela the main character instead of Lissy?

Speaker 3: 7:31

Oh, that's a really good question. Um, because Kela is the one who's law mom and that, that sad feeling that she has leads her to do some things that bring her in contact with the mermaid. So as I mentioned with, um, how she finds the comb, it's kind of, she's developed kind of a recklessness. So her sad, this makes her do things that maybe she wouldn't have done before and all of those things kind of lead to the next thing. So I think that's why she was the person, um, that found the comb and was able to get the wish with Tedia, but in some ways too, um, Kela and Ophia kind of are the same in some ways they have some similarities, they both have lost things. So I think that connects them a little bit as well.

Speaker 1: 8:28

Hmm. That's an interesting thought that Kela and OIA have that in common. Huh? Mm-hmm<affirmative> did you Sloan was Lissie your favorite character? Um, no. No. Who was your favorite character? My

Speaker 2: 8:40

Favorite character, I would have to say Was, um, the mermaid.

Speaker 1: 8:50

Was it the mermaid was AIA

Speaker 3: 8:53

OFIA yeah,

Speaker 1: 8:54

She's pretty cool.<laugh><laugh> uh, Delaney, what's your other question is St. RGA a real place.

Speaker 3: 9:05

Mm. I love that question. It's not a real place, but it's based on a real place. So my, uh, father's family is from the island of Barbados in the Western. And so a lot of the details about St. Rita are based on Bardos. And so, um, I wanted to have a little bit of freedom to change some detail, so that's why I didn't just make it Barbados, but it is very, very close to that island.<laugh> mm-hmm<affirmative>

Speaker 1: 9:38

I love that. I love that it took place in the Caribbean. We are still homeschooling and we do this thing where every month we pick a new country to learn about, um, and we just finished with Jamaica last month, so wonderful. I loved all of little setting details and getting to point out to the girls like, oh, they're talking about this kind of food we'd learned about this food and yeah, it was perfect timing.<laugh>

Speaker 3: 10:06

Oh, that's great. Yay.

Speaker 1: 10:09

Uh, you,

Speaker 3: 10:16

Oh, I think it's because we talked about Disney's mermaid and I've always found that really fun. Um, when the little mermaid, the movie, the Disney movie came out, I remember being, I love that movie and I watched it so many times and I could sing along with Ariel. Uh, I love that Sebastian, the crab had had a Caribbean accent. I mean, my whole family was like, he has a Indian accent<laugh> so I thought it was just fun. And I love mermaid mermaids in general, but I also kind of liked some movies, um, and books that had different kinds of like, um, you may not have read this yet, but in the Harry Potter series, um, in the fourth book, the Golet of fire, there are some Mer people that live in the lake and they're involved in one of the challenges that Harry has to do, but those Mer people are a little bit scary and a little bit, um, little bit different. They're not, you know, they're not like the little mermaid and I thought those were really fun. So kind of these different ideas, I thought it would be fun to explore mermaids. And to me, I always imagine them living someplace beautiful and sunny. So the Caribbean seemed a perfect place for them and for Avidia to come to come and live and interact with the people. Um, St

Speaker 1: 11:39

I love that. I really enjoyed seeing kind of a different take on more people. And it made me wonder if were there any, like Caribbean specific folklore me people stories that you were drawing on or was it very much just like for your own imagination?

Speaker 3: 12:00

That's, um, really interesting because yes, there are a lot of stories. Um, when I was working on my research, um, I, you know, I started of course with the hands Christian Anderson, the little, little mermaid story and reread that. Um, and then I started looking for stories about mermaids from lots of different places around the world. And, um, in areas of west Africa, there's, um, a water spirit called mommy Wata and different islands had different cakes or versions on, um, on mommy Wata. But, um, a little fun fact about EDIA was I tried to connect her to the, the stories of mommy wa by making her very snake, like in her actions and the fact that she has like little slits in her yellow, you know, gold eyes that, um, you know, when she's looking in the, her movements are very serpentine and her name OIA is actually the scientific name for the, um, the family of snakes. So if you look up the word Okia, it is the name of the, the genus that includes all snakes. And so that was kind of how I connected that. Oh,

Speaker 1: 13:14

That's cool. I didn't know that<laugh> Dela. You love snakes. Yeah. And Algiers and<laugh>. Ooh. And we love the, the reference mega Megalodon tooth was so cool. Mm-hmm<affirmative> there was a lot of cool details that we got very excited about.

Speaker 3: 13:33

Oh, that thought.

Speaker 1: 13:36

All right. Girls, do you wanna say anything else before you head off, back into the house? No. All right. Well say, say goodbye. Bye. Sorry, Lisa, go ahead.

Speaker 3: 13:46

No, that's okay. I was gonna add a fun back. So I didn't know that the girls were twins and I was gonna tell them that I actually have twins. I have a boy and a girl twin, and my mom is a twin. So I know lots of twins in my family.

Speaker 1: 14:02

<laugh> that is awesome. How old are yours?

Speaker 3: 14:05

Mine are older. They're 18 now, but oh my goodness.

Speaker 1: 14:09

They were a little once.

Speaker 3: 14:10

<laugh>

Speaker 1: 14:12

Not all that long ago. I'm sure it feels like Awesome. All right. Well, thank you for joining me, girls. Yeah. You wanna say goodbye? Bye bye.

Speaker 3: 14:22

Bye bye.

Speaker 1: 14:25

Let them clear off for a second here. I, to see byebye. Aw, I can come close the door. Yes. Thank you, Lisa. That was fun. Oh,

Speaker 3: 14:39

That was great.<laugh>

Speaker 1: 14:42

Um, no, I do. I mean, seriously, I have never seen them. I mean, we've read quite a number of chapter books, um, over the last couple years, but this is the most excited that I've seen them with a book. Um, there was actually one point last week where they requested that I read to them instead of turn on the TV.

Speaker 3: 15:03

Oh, wow. Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 15:06

<laugh> that was, that was a first, um, and then, yeah, last night, like I said, we were up way past bedtime and ended up being like two straight hours of reading. Cause it was just like one more chapter, one more chapter.

Speaker 3: 15:15

<laugh> well, I, I can't wait to hear what they think when they get to the end. So that's yeah, no,

Speaker 1: 15:21

I'll email. I will email and let you know, we're all very, very excited. They've made a lot of predictions. They have a lot of theories. Um, so I think they're really looking forward to seeing if they're about it.<laugh> um, so one thing I really enjoyed about the book, um, is, you know, we talked about the world read aloud day is this week and this book, it was just a pleasure to read, um, out loud there it's, it's not a like poetic book, but there was something about it. They just had a really lovely cadence to the words. And this is the sort of thing doing so much more reading aloud that I do these days that you just kind of start to notice. Um, so I was wondering, is that intentional? Do you read your own work? Allow?

Speaker 3: 16:13

I do read my work aloud. I find that it is a really helpful way to edit, um, and to make sure that what you're wanting to say is what's coming across, um, and being a teacher, I encourage my students to do that. They're working on some things right now and, and my, one of my little tips was I them to read their entire story out loud, um, just so that they can hear, you know, your, your ears will catch things that your eyes won't. Um, so I do do that, but I think part of, um, I'm glad that it comes across very, um, lyrical and, um, having that, that cadence was the telling traditions that I was trying to connect with. And, um, there's such a history of like oral storytelling and black culture and that's come over to the Caribbean. And, um, that was something that I, I wanted it to feel like a story that the reader was being told. Um, as well as, you know, there's almost like a story within a story.

Speaker 1: 17:18

Yes, no, that really, really comes across. I love all of the EDIA point of view chapters and how they really do have that very kind of folk tale vibe to them. And the, the, the detail at beginning, the quick crack detail. Yeah. Talk, talk a little bit about that because I am gonna use that now just to like, get their attention cause they love, you know, getting to, to do the little callback. Um,

Speaker 3: 17:48

Yeah. So all of the videos, chapters, uh, start with the storytelling frame, quick crack, this is a story. Um, and I use that, um, it's actually a, um, a traditional, um, story beginning used in many of the islands in, um, and different islands actually have different, you know, frames ways that storytellers will start a story, but the idea is to connect the audience with the reader. So, um, when I use it in front of those chapters, that, um, is in O' point of view, it's a signal to the reader that we're kind of going into this oral storytelling, um, kind of mode. Um, and then at the end of all of those chapters, it ends that with quick crack, the story is put on you. And that phrase, um, I found in my research, um, is sometimes also used at the end of stories, um, to, to indicate like the, the story is for the reader to decide what it means. And I think as authors, we kind of know that as well, that once, you know, you have a book out there in the world, you know, you kind of don't own it any longer. It belongs to everyone and everyone who reads it is gonna have their own things that they take away and their interpretation. And so it's kind of, um, harking back to that idea that, you know, there's an interactive, um, play between the audience and the storyteller, um, the call in response aspect of that. So I say quick, and then the audience has to say, you know, crack it's part of like the, again, black storytelling tradition. Um, sometimes you'll see that like in black churches where a minister will say something and, you know, will say like, you know, let the church say amen. And then the audience will respond. It's all part of those traditions that, um, have kind of gotten past on. And it's just makes it very much a communal it experience telling a story.

Speaker 1: 19:54

I love that. And I love seeing it in book form. Cause I do think that it can get lost. Um, you know, it's still, there is still this kind of two-way street. Um, you know, the writer puts the words out there, but it, we were relying on the reader to come to it and to, to make their own interpretations. Um, but seeing it kind of in this more oral storytelling format, it like makes that relationship much more obvious. And it was fun for me as a mom because I already like when I'm reading to them, I'm, I'm trying to encourage them to like, think about what we're reading and talk about what we're reading. And I just loved that, that little detail that makes it, um, you know, really clear that, that that's what's happening here when you're involved in a story.

Speaker 3: 20:44

Yeah. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 20:46

Um, how much did you enjoy writing Lydia's point of view?

Speaker 3: 20:53

Um, a lot<laugh> I can

Speaker 1: 20:55

Tell you were having fun with her<laugh>

Speaker 3: 20:58

You know, and it's so funny because, um, when I was thinking about the idea for the story, um, OIA was the, the character that was clearest in my head. Um, you know, again, my premise was, you know, I wanted to tell a roommate story set in the Caribbean, um, you know, little bit he, some parts that were a little bit scary or a little bit dark, but, you know, to again, just be full of magic and wonder. And so I imagine mermaid and you know, what she would look like, you know, her dark skin, but then also, you know, that she was, you know, kind of angry and could, could be kind of dangerous. And the scene in the book, um, that where she she's kind of looking for Kela and she actually pulls herself out of the ocean and she's clawing herself her way up a hill was the first scene that I imagined. And, uh, that was, I wrote out of order<laugh> so that was the first scene that I wrote. And then I went back to write other scenes. Um, so with OIA, one of the things, uh, I worried about was whether to include her point of view or because, um, one of the things that people tend to tell middle grade writers is your protagonist, you know, needs to be the kid. And, um, here I have this 300 year old mermaid<laugh> to give her, to give her point of view chapters, um, would take the focus away perhaps from my, that my protagonist. Um, but I actually, um, I feel like I, when I read the book, uh, the girl who drank the moon by Kelly Barnhill that really gave me courage to, to try it and to see if it would work. Um, because in that book, obviously she starts off with, um, not the girl<laugh> the, the, the girl and the title is not the, the she's the main character, but she's not, she doesn't actually come into the book until maybe about eight chapters in and wow. Um, it's just really interesting. And so I thought, okay, I'm gonna put these chapters in there. And I think they, they really, they were enjoyable to write, but I think they're enjoyable for people who are reading it. Mm-hmm,<affirmative>,

Speaker 1: 23:16

That's so funny. Cause I do think that we, and I dunno if it's the authors doing this or the, the publishers or where these quote unquote rules come from. Um, but you do hear that, you know, you hear, oh, it's gotta be within word count or it's gotta be your protagonist can only be these ages or, you know, these various rules that we then all feel like we need to ascribe to. But I feel like kids and young readers in general in a lot of ways are more willing to be exploratory with reading than a lot of adults are sometimes.

Speaker 3: 23:50

Yeah. I agree with that. And I think, um, you know, I, when I first I wrote my first draft of the book, um, way back in 2013 and, um, you know, went back and forth with some of these is, and it just took me developing confidence as a writer to go ahead and do it the way my instincts were leading me. So mm-hmm,<affirmative>, it's hard to, uh, sometimes, you know, the, the advice that, that there is really helpful, but then sometimes you have to kinda go against what the, you know, the popular advice might say is the way to do something. Yeah,

Speaker 1: 24:24

No, I think that's really important. And I think, um, you know, listening to your instincts and that's something that I guess we build over time, um, it's hard to do as a new writer, as an aspiring writer. You know, you feel like, oh, if, if the market says I need to do this, then I don't wanna ruin my chances by not doing it. Um, but at the same time, every book and every story is gonna be different. And sometimes you just have to say, yeah, but this is the book I'm writing and this is what it needs to be to be its best.

Speaker 3: 24:55

Yeah, absolutely. I agree.

Speaker 1: 24:58

So on that super similar related note, um, as we've talked about already a fair amount and the girls asked about, uh, there's a lot of darkness and a lot of creepiness, like it's, you really are leaning into some pretty scary things. Uh, death comes up in a number of different ways throughout the book. Um, and of course Ophia herself is just so EIE and vicious at times. So I, myself am not super well read in middle grade. What are in your mind? Of course we just talked about like, don't sit<laugh> arbitrary rules for yourself, but do you think that there is a line that middle grade authors can cross and go too far? Um, and maybe what are some things that an author can be thinking about if they're starting to wonder or worry, like maybe this is too dark for the age group I'm looking at mm-hmm<affirmative>

Speaker 3: 25:59

I think that you're right about, um, you know, not trying to set too many rules for yourself, but I think one thing that's really helpful is to read widely, um, within recently published books in the, you know, the genre that you're interested in. Um, so I teach fifth and sixth grade. Um, so I read a lot of middle grade books or, you know, will hear about books, uh, and book talk them to students or students will give me book recomme. Um, so there, there are, I think, um, some of the books that resonate with students most, um, tackle some of those top topics. Um, and I think books that can, that might be a little scary. Um, they also give kids like a safe place to explore those feelings, you know, so it's not like nothing scary is gonna actually happen to them, but they can feel through the character's experiences. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, um, you know, what's happening. And then I think the other aspect of my is it deals with grief. It's kind of like the, that one of the central, um, themes, grief, and in love, I think both kind of go hand in hand. And, um, so Kela in my book is dealing with the loss of her mother and that grief is very real to her. Um, and it's not something that, that she is able to deal with on her own. And so part of, um, you know, the process that she goes through in the book is reconnecting with friends and family who help and support her. And as a teacher and, um, you know, a parent I've seen kids who have dealt with, um, real issues of grief, whether it's losing, um, you know, a parent or losing a loved one, um, or even, you know, losing a pet. I think all of those feelings are real to kids. And so reading a book about another kid who is experiencing similar feelings, but makes it through to the other side and showing kind of the, the positive, um, aspects of leaning on the people who love you, um, and taking their support and those adults in her life, seeing that she needs, um, that support and kind of rallying around her. I think those, those kind of stories are important just to give kids, um, kind of comfort that what other, whether they've experienced these things or not, you know, it can be okay.

Speaker 1: 28:36

Yeah, no, I, I completely agree. I think that kids are often tougher than we give them credit for. Um, and I also like when it comes to the, the scary parts, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing for kids to be scared a little bit. Like I know when I was little, I loved scary things. Like I wasn't gonna<laugh> watch the shining or anything, but I loved things that were just a little spooky. Um, and, and I think that they're, I'm not a psychologist, but I feel like there's gotta be some sort of psychological benefits to exploring your, your own courage and what is scary to you, but being able to do it in these kind of safe, you know, the pages of a book.

Speaker 3: 29:24

Right. And I think, you know, there are lots of examples of books that, um, kids have loved over the years that, you know, coralline, I mentioned as an example and, you know, but they're, you know, all the way back to like RL Stein and the goosebump series and

Speaker 1: 29:39

<laugh>, I know, or even fairy tales, Grims fairy tales too, for sure.

Speaker 3: 29:44

They are, they, they definitely, I think, you know, we sometimes enjoy being a little bit scared, but again, knowing that you're still safe and you're reading about it, you know, to happening to another person, character<laugh> and then you can always close the book. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 30:00

Did you ever feel like you had pushed things too far? And did you worry, like maybe I need to pull back here or vice versa. Were there parts when you thought hi, I still gotta dig deeper. This still isn't creepy enough?

Speaker 3: 30:16

No, I think there were, I think everything needed to have, um, kind of a reason to be there. And so, um, I think about even things that characters, um, did, you know, I had, um, some things where, you know, character, you know, did something that was maybe a little bit, you know, mean. And then I would think about like, well, you know, this is a person who has a relationship with know Kela so would they really do that? And, you know, no, it's not really quite doesn't, it's not quite believable that, you know, they would do that. And so I think it's the same thing with, um, you know, the, the monsters and the magic that, you know, there are, there are moments where, you know, you want that kind of suspense and a little bit of threat, but then, um, also other points where I was like, yeah, that's enough.<laugh> yeah.<laugh>

Speaker 1: 31:07

Well, I know the last, I don't even know how many hundred, 150 pages or so have been so intense. I mean, super just page Turner. Um, and like, I imagine we're so excited to see how it ends. Wow. Um, I did wanna ask, so you are a teacher. Um, and I think I said, I saw in your bio fifth and sixth grade mostly. Yes. Yes. So right in your age group, wheelhouse now<laugh>, um, how has that influenced your writing or this book in particular?

Speaker 3: 31:43

Um, a lot because, um, I am somebody who tries to, um, build a community of writers in my classroom. And so, um, one of the little, um, fun facts about my book was that I wrote it, um, the original draft during NaNoWriMo. Oh yeah. And I, yes. And so I also use the NaNoWriMo young writer's program in my classroom. So, um, the year that I drafted, uh, com of wishes, um, my fifth graders and I, we all kind of, you know, shared what our word counts would be. And, you know, every day in November, you know, I dedicat some class time and we'd write and we'd sit there, you know, and everybody's keywords would be cling and, you know, they would know how, how far I was towards my goal. And I would say, you know, check in with them. And so, um, it was great. And I've done that for, I think this is my ninth year that we've done it. Um, so every year we do NaNoWriMo together, I always write with them. Um, I don't always do well<laugh> in terms of my winning<laugh> the, uh, co of wishes actually was my first win. So I actually did get to 50,000 in the 30 days. Um, and then I had a, um, another book that, um, a manuscript that I also won, but out of the eight or nine times, only two times have I gotten<laugh>, but, uh, they they're, you know, they're excited. And so the last year or two, um, you know, since the book has been, you know, I've been working on a little bit of a rebel and so I'll, you know, work on revisions when, you know, they're working on their new stories, but it really, um, has been great to, you know, kind of go on the publishing journey and be able to share details with my students about, you know, how did the books that they love get onto the shelves and, you know, if you, they wanted to be a writer, like what are the steps that writers take to actually, um, publish a book? Um, so we talk about all of those things.

Speaker 1: 33:49

I love that I, young Marisa would've been so excited if I had someone in my life that I could be like, look, she's doing it. Um, so I, I do a lot of work with nano. I also just love nano and have used it for a bunch of books over the years. Um, mm-hmm<affirmative> and I'm always, I love the young writer's program, but I've never actually got to see it at work. Oh,

Speaker 3: 34:16

Just it's wonderful.

Speaker 1: 34:18

I bet. I mean, I love the idea<affirmative> and I'm curious at that age, and it probably runs the gamut, but do you get just a ton of enthusiasm or do you, like, I guess I'm thinking even as adults, we, we fight with feelings of doubt. We feel like, is my story good enough? Um, am I wasting my time? Is this gonna go anywhere? I mean, all of the things that kind of come along with being creative and I'm wondering, do you see that at that age also, like, is there some pushback or are they just like, yeah, let's tell a story. This is great.

Speaker 3: 34:55

I think of, so I usually, I, it, I found that not to introduce it too early where, you know, they, some of them might tend to worry like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh.<laugh>. And so somewhere, somewhere in the middle of, uh, October, usually I'll say, Hey, you know, and actually I open the conversation with them, having them talk about creativity and like what they think creativity means to them. And, um, we usually come up with the final kind of our thought about it being that creativity is, um, a skill and not like a talent. So like, you're not like born being creative or born being, not creative. That it's something that you can practice. And so that kind of gets them in the mindset to think, okay, I can, you know, I can learn how to be creative and come up with ideas. And then I tell them about nano and then they get scared.<laugh> a little bit<laugh>. But, um, the program is so flexible for young, um, young and writers that they, they can set their own goals. And so, um, they give you some suggestions as teachers of like what to suggest for different age groups. Um, but you know, it's a K12, uh, program. And so usually what I've found is, you know, they say maybe about a thousand words for every grade level. So for my fifth grade, you know, I actually go a little under just to like give them this, this motive. So I say 4,000 words, it's your minimum, but I would love for you to, you know, to aim towards, but honestly, it's a personal goal. Whatever you write is more than you had on the page at the beginning of the month. So everything's a success, but, um, they set, you know, some will stick with that 4,000 because I, I break it down for them about, that's only 133 words a day<laugh> and like, you know, a paragraph that we do for, you know, our classwork usually is longer than that. So you probably could do that easily. And so there's some that'll stick with that. Um, but most of my students get really excited once they kind of figure out that I'm not limiting them. They, they don't have to write about a particular topic. They can get, choose the length that they want it to be, and they can change it. Like I say, you know, it's not set in stone. If you start off with, you know, 7,000 words is your goal. And then you get going and realize you're way to your goal. In the first three days, you can increase it. Or if it's the opposite, like you're lagging behind, you can decrease it. It's totally flexible. And, um, so yeah, I had a hundred percent meet their goal this year. They were so excited. And, um, when, since I also teach sixth grade at the same, some that we don't do the program officially in the sixth grade, but, you know, anybody can sign up and a lot of the students will tell me it was one of their favorite writing experiences that they've had. So that's really makes me happy.<laugh>

Speaker 1: 37:53

Yeah, no, that is awesome to hear. And yeah, I just think it's a great thing. I know I would've loved it. Like really, I, this is an assignment, count me in<laugh>

Speaker 3: 38:04

Exactly.

Speaker 1: 38:06

Um, so last question, before we get onto our bonus round, uh, we usually ask this question at the beginning. Um, but of course I wanted to let the girls kind of take center stage. Um, but I love to hear authors origins stories. Um, so how, and you've kind of talked a little bit about writing with your students and doing nano, um, but just typically, like when did you know you wanted to be a writer or what were the steps you went through to, uh, to now having your debut book coming out?

Speaker 3: 38:36

Um, thank you. I, I guess, you know, I love to write even when I was much young, well, I love to read, I guess that's really the origin story. So I was like a voracious reader when I was a kid and, um, became well known to my school librarians. Um, you know, they would hold books for me that, you know, they got something new and then they would say, oh, we got this new book in, you know, we think you might like it. So I just read a ton and, um, I liked to write and, um, I started, you know, getting feedback from teachers that, you know, I was good at it<laugh> and so, um, but I didn't really do anything beyond, um, high school or college with writing on my own. Um, when I was, um, teaching, I decided to go back to graduate school kind of partway through my teaching career. Uh, this is maybe about 10 years ago, 10 or 15 years ago now. But when I was, um, back in grad school, we were taking, I had, you know, classes on adolescent literature and classes on adolescent writing. And one of the classes was, um, you got to choose your writing project. So I thought, huh. You know, I haven't written anything fiction fun for a long time. Why don't I, I choose a project that's, um, a middle grade story or a Y I wasn't really sure at that point, um, what I wanted to do, but I wrote a chapter of, uh, a story as my final project. And that's got me thinking again about, Hmm. You know, I, I might like to write a book. I teach books all the time. Um, so I started, um, doing research about like what kinds of organized I could cause as a teacher, I knew I needed to learn, I could, you know, teach a lesson on, you know, someone else's work, but in terms of writing my own, I, I needed to kind of go back to school per se. So, um, you know, I, I joined, you know, writing organizations, I went to conferences, I, uh, found a critique crew could started to share some things that I'd written. And the critique group that I had was really kind and pointed out some of those, like things that, um, you know, beginning writers, like I was the story that I had kind of played with, um, had, um, those adult characters talking and they were like, well, you might wanna have your, you know, your child character be the one who's the POV. And I'm like, oh, OK. Um, so that's what started it. And as I said, I discovered NaNoWriMo and, um, started writing with my students. And after I finished, um, coma wishes, manuscript, um, I again, knew that I needed, I needed to revise and I needed to kind of get help with getting other people's feedback. And, um, so I looked and found that there were some mentorships that, uh, I could apply for and had some great mentors who helped me with different things. Um, I had one who was a Y author who was really great with giving me feedback on kind of like some of the suspense and the, the parts of the book that might seem scary, but like how to like, you know, create that tension. And then I had another mentor who helped me with voice because she wrote more middle grade in just developing kilo's voice. Um, and then I queried and was lucky enough to be offered representation and, and finally make it to, uh, being acquired by Rosemary Bronson at, uh, Harper Collins Qury books. So it's been a long journey, but, um, very reward. And, um, I'm excited that the book is so close to coming out in the world and other readers being able to read it for the first time.

Speaker 1: 42:22

Oh my gosh. There's nothing like that. First book coming out.

Speaker 3: 42:27

Um, I'm excited.<laugh> yeah. I'm

Speaker 1: 42:29

Excited for you and congratulations. And thank you for writing this book, that me and my girls so much joy and togetherness. So we are gonna now wrap this up with the happy writer bonus round, starting with cake or pie

Speaker 3: 42:47

Cake.<laugh> I love cake<laugh> me too. It's favorite word cake would be my, yeah. My go to<laugh>

Speaker 1: 42:57

Music or silence.

Speaker 3: 43:01

Silence. I it's funny because when I write, um, I did listen to some music, um, like I listened to some clips so early on when I was drafting to kind of channel the vibes of the islands, but generally I'd like it to be quiet. Um, or I might like play background, like, um, you know, like, um, wind blowing through the leaves.<laugh> mm-hmm,<affirmative>, it's not music, but yes. More silence, definitely

Speaker 1: 43:31

Sunny beach or snowy mountains,

Speaker 3: 43:35

Definitely sunny beach.

Speaker 1: 43:37

I was totally hoping you were gonna say snowy mountains, just throw a curve

Speaker 3: 43:42

Ball there. We just had a, we just had a blizzard in Boston and we got 23.8 inches. So I'm waiting for the sunny beaches again.<laugh>

Speaker 1: 43:52

Yeah, I can understand<laugh> mega Ladon or Kraken.<affirmative>

Speaker 3: 43:59

Ooh, neither one are very good, but I will go with a NELA Dawn, less armed. Maybe I'm not sure<laugh>

Speaker 1: 44:11

Disney or Hans Christian Anderson,

Speaker 3: 44:16

Hans Christian Anderson. There's so many great stories. And again, I know a lot of those were passed down and he kind of collected them, but, um, yeah, I like those old stories.

Speaker 1: 44:28

What is your favorite thing to do that has to do with reading or writing?

Speaker 3: 44:35

Kniting I am a knitter and, um, I don't knit as often as I would like to, but, um, I learned a long time ago when I was in elementary school and I love to knit things.

Speaker 1: 44:47

What book makes you happy?

Speaker 3: 44:53

Um, I obviously my own book, but<laugh> obviously, um, we just finished reading, um, one crazy summer in my classroom and I love that book. I love the character. So that book makes me happy, kind of to see that family, lots of different versions of family.

Speaker 1: 45:17

What are you working on next?

Speaker 3: 45:22

So I'm working on another standalone, middle grade fantasy. Um, it is set in a totally different place than St. Rita<laugh>. Um, my students today asked me, um, they said something about, I seem to like books, books that have oceans in them. Cause I was this book talking a couple things. They were like, you seem to like books about the water or ocean. And I said, well, my next book actually takes place in the desert. So it's totally different.<laugh>

Speaker 1: 45:53

You have many layers, Lisa don't let them put you in a box. Yes

Speaker 3: 45:57

<laugh> but um, I like to think about that book as, um, kind of a, again with a, a fairy tale ish type, uh, re like a vibe to it, but it's like, um, I call it my princess and a tower book, but with a west African, um, inspiration. So mm-hmm,<affirmative>, that's what I'm working on.

Speaker 1: 46:18

Fun. Where can people find you?

Speaker 3: 46:23

I am, I have a website. It's my name? Lisa spring.com. And I'm also very active on Twitter. Uh that's where a lot of teachers tend to hang out. So that's where I started<laugh> as an educator. Um, my, my username there is engage readers. Um, and I'm the same also on Instagram.

Speaker 1: 46:45

Lastly, at one point in the book, it talks about a sweet bread that is made by miss Inis, that tastes of coconut and nutmeg. Can I have that recipe?

Speaker 3: 46:58

I will find it for you. Oh, I was hoping you were gonna say it's a real thing.<laugh> my grandmother used to bake that for me and I loved it. And so I definitely, um, need to make that some point so I will dig that up. It

Speaker 1: 47:15

Sounds so.

Speaker 3: 47:19

It is

Speaker 1: 47:20

Awesome. Lisa, thank you so much for joining me today.

Speaker 3: 47:24

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker 1: 47:28

Readers, definitely check out a com of wishes. It is available this week, and if you have littles like I do again, highly recommend as a family read aloud, we all enjoyed it. Of course, we always encourage you to support your local indie bookstore. If you can, if you don't have a local indie, you can check out our affiliate at bookshop.org/shop/marissa Meyer. Next week, I will be talking with Sarah Winfrey about her new graphic novel, the greatest thing, as well as her short story contribution in the serendipity anthology edited by yours. Truly if you're enjoying these conversations, please subscribe and follow us on Instagram at Marisa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy, stay cozy and whatever life throws at you today. I hope that now you're feeling a little bit happier.