Writing Fictionalized Memoir and Graphic Novels with Sarah Winifred Searle - The Greatest Thing

Marissa chats with Sarah Winifred Searle about her new graphic novel - THE GREATEST THING - and her contribution to the SERENDIPITY anthology, "Keagan's Heaven on Earth," as well as some reasons that Sailor Moon was so creatively nourishing for many people in our generation; the many different paths one can take to reach their dream of becoming a writer, illustrator, or creator;  how fictionalized memoir can be seen as either a giving or a self-centered endeavor (and both interpretations are totally valid), and how much the genre should or should not stray from real life; using a story-within-a-story as metaphor to highlight some of the larger themes of the book; and how technology details help to establish your time period within a specific, almost-contemporary setting. Also... Valentines and secret admirers!

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:10

Hello, and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books, to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I am your host Marisa Meyer. Thank you for joining me. What is making me happy this week? Well, this episode is going to be going live on Valentine's day, and it also happens that we are going to be making a big announcement on Valentine's day, which means I will finally get to talk about this a very special project that I have been working on. Uh, it is for the cinder 10 year anniversary edition, which is coming out this March. And if you've been listening to these episodes, you might recall me talking about this really fun thing I was working on like last fall, I think. Uh, and I'm still, I'm not gonna say what it is here, just in case some of you are listening to this at like five o'clock in the morning on Valentine's day. And we haven't actually made the official announcement yet. Um, but I am so, so excited for this project. It was pure joy, pure fun to write, and I really love it. And I really, really think that readers are gonna love it. And especially those of you who really love cider and the lunar Chronicles, it is a gift from me to you. So please check out my Instagram page, um, on Valentine's day. So you can see with the big is, and I can't wait to talk about it. I am so excited on that note, please, don't forget that we are celebrating our 100th episode this month. Uh, and we have a big giveaway happening on Instagram in which three winners are going to receive gift cards to bookshop, to org. Uh, so definitely check that out and enter on Instagram at happy writer podcast. And of course I am so happy to be talking to today's guest. She is the author and illustrator of many short fiction nonfiction and memoir comics, as well as the creator of the graphic novels patients and Esther and ed ward and romance, and sincerely Harriet she's one of the contributors to serendipity 10 romantic tropes transformed, which just came out in January as did her new graphic novel. The greatest thing, please, Sarah Winford

Speaker 2: 2:48

Hello. Hang on,

Speaker 1: 2:54

Sarah. How are you feeling

Speaker 2: 2:56

Like it's first thing in the morning? So my voice is a little funny, but

Speaker 1: 3:01

I'm sorry. I should have allowed you to have more coffee, really wake up a little bit. These time differences are tricky.

Speaker 2: 3:08

It's all good. I'm used to it.

Speaker 1: 3:10

And you are broadcasting from Australia, is that correct?

Speaker 2: 3:14

Yes.

Speaker 1: 3:15

Cool. Well thank you for getting up early. Thank you for joining.

Speaker 2: 3:20

Well, thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 3:22

So the first thing, uh, I wanna dig into is I think just yesterday, uh, we had an email and I learned for the first time that you are a sailor moon fan.

Speaker 2: 3:36

Yes.

Speaker 1: 3:37

This

Speaker 2: 3:37

Is happy to hear that you are as well.

Speaker 1: 3:40

I am, I am a huge sailor moon fan and I kind of got my not kind of, I totally got my start writing sailor moon fan fiction, um, which I talk about like all the time on this podcast, but it's funny, cause this is like, I think only the sixth episode of 2, 20, 22 and sailor moon has seriously come up like three or four times already. And I just gotta say, I swear, I am not picking authors based on whether or not they're fans of sailor moon. Did you like, did you do fan fiction or fan comics or anything?

Speaker 2: 4:18

Um, I drew tons of like my friends and I in middle school and high school all had like our own special sailor characters. They weren't necessarily like us, but they were kind of like, yeah, like if we were in that university, we'd wanna be this kind of cool sailor character and stuff, so we'd draw them together and all that. It was good.

Speaker 1: 4:42

My friends and I did the exact same thing. Do you remember what your like sailor Sensi name was?

Speaker 2: 4:50

No, I had a few, I wasn't, we were a little bit separated from like this was before OCS became a really big thing. Um, and stuff like that and the, uh, fan art worlds. So, uh, yeah, we missed that boat. So we were a bit more freeform with it. Did you, what was yours?

Speaker 1: 5:12

Um, so I at the time was like the hippie of the group. Um, and so my sailor scout was sailor retro. And I remember that my weapon instead of being like, um, like Japanese throwing stars, I had many peace signs that I could like, but like that were razor edged that I threw.

Speaker 2: 5:34

Oh, interesting.

Speaker 1: 5:39

I

Speaker 2: 5:43

Sorry if my cat interrupts a few times, she gets excited when the house is quiet, but I'm talking on the phone or something and sometimes she tries to join in. So

Speaker 1: 5:52

That is okay. We're a cat friendly podcast. She is welcome. All right. So I wanna start, um, by asking you, what is your writer slash illustrator origin story? Like when did you know that you wanted to do this and how did you make this a reality? How did you get to becoming a, a published author slash creator?

Speaker 2: 6:20

Um, well, I'd always been really into writing and drawing. I remember my mom still has this book that I made in like the first grade or something where like my homeroom teacher in the first grade thought that I'd, it was a story about cupcake the line. I'm pretty sure. Uh, and I had written it and drawn it and my teacher thought it was so good that she bound it in like old wallpaper trimmings. And my mom still has it somewhere, but yeah, it's been pretty much since the beginning that I've always wanted to tell stories for. And then when I was, uh, like my stepdad at the time, he had a big box of comics from when he was younger in the garage. And I remember finding it when maybe I was maybe like 10 and, uh, I'd already been reading some comics from the grocery store. And then I started reading, which were like superhero and like co in the barbarian from the eighties and like all this stuff. And I thought the format was really cool. And then sailor moon happened when I was in middle school. And, uh, it just kind of changed everything because all of a, here was a show, but then I could go to the comic store and grab that was back when they were publishing it as floppy comics, like the big thin versions, like instead of the manga collections, because like, they're like, oh, Americans, aren't gonna know what to do with like a, we have to give them the floppy comics. Like we do the Supermans so that they'll buy it. So I ha I still have some of those at my mom's house, just like collecting dust, but I remember grabbing a few scattered issues and being like, holy crap, like I could make comics and I wouldn't have to choose between art and writing and their comics out there. The, that feel like they're made for people like me. It's not all Conans and, and Batmans, which I'm fine with, but they weren't quite as specially tailored to my interests as sailor moon was. So it started then that's when I got serious about it and, uh, I never up being serious about it. And, uh, it was a bit of a long road to kind of figuring out how to fit it into my life before it was something that I could make a living off of and then turning it into something that I could make a living off of. But, um, yeah, it was just, I feel like I just knew, and it was always gonna happen even if like, I was a bit of a late bloomer when it came to stuff like, um, it took me a while to get through university and I actually started making comics professionally before I finished university and stuff like that. Um, so it kind of took me a while to get there, but I did and now I'm here. So yeah.

Speaker 1: 9:26

Well, I love that. I have been really surprised talking to so many authors over the years, um, or especially over the last couple of years doing this podcast. How many of us do site sailor moon as like a huge influence? And obviously I knew it was a huge influence for me, but I, I really have kind of become aware that it was just like the zeitgeist, uh, for our generat. And I, I feel like so many of us look straight back to sailor moon. Like this was the story that showed me, oh, I can write about team girls who have issues and also make friends and also have epic romances and have magic powers. And like all of these things that like, none of us had really seen before.

Speaker 2: 10:16

Yeah. I mean, it was, it was such a gift because like, even now I think it's hard for me to pick favorites of things cuz it changes all the time for me. But like slice of life is just one of my most absolute favorite things ever. And I feel like we had never seen something quite like sailor moon, how, like, it was about a girl who had superpowers, but a lot of the episodes were like people called them filler. But now they're my favorite episodes where it's just like, like saggy and her friends just kind of fing about being late for school and getting stressed about tests and worrying about boys and girls and all of this stuff. And it was just so nourishing to be like, yes, my problems are important and I could also have superpowers.

Speaker 1: 11:15

Yes, no nourishing is really great word for it. I think that it really filled a whole emotionally and creatively for a lot of us that, that who knew that we were even missing that.

Speaker 2: 11:30

Yes.

Speaker 1: 11:32

Um, so, and you talked about how it kinda, it, you were working toward this goal of becoming a comic artist for a long, long time. Um, and you mentioned that it kind of took you a while to figure out how to fit that into your life. Um, how did you kind of get your start? I mean, you didn't pub, I I'm assuming you didn't just jump into like writing and publishing a full length, graphic novel. What were some of the steps that you went through?

Speaker 2: 11:58

Let's see. Um, so when I was in high school, I, I had been making little comics about my fan sailor moon stuff and other things for a while. Uh, but I was very lucky to have some very supportive art teachers and literature teachers. And um, they kind of encouraged me to make my own and be a bit more serious about it. So I started making comic zines and uh, if anyone wants to know a bit more about that, uh, my book, the greatest thing kind of covers this part of my life when I started taking comics more seriously and started self-publishing them. Um, and from there, uh, I remember like I ended up spending a lot of time at my local comic bookshop Kele, like of comics in Portland, Maine cuz uh, Rick and Laura are the owners and they have always been really supportive of local talent. And I remember being like 16 years old and needing to get special permission to stay overnight at the shop because I wanted to participate in 20 hour comic day. Hmm. Where, uh, you make a 24 page comic in 24 hours. So you go spend the night somewhere and you get locked in and you all work together and make your comics. And I did it with a bunch of like, I think I ended up making friends with a bunch of people who ended up, they were a lot older than me at the time. Well, they're still older than me, but now the difference seems smaller. Um, and like there's still people that I consider part of my sort of comics community and just kind of that sort of thing. Like my confidence gradually grew and I practiced a lot. Um, I went to art school for one year before I, uh, I didn't quite flunk out, but I, I just wasn't ready for the college experience I think. And maybe an art college wasn't the right environment for me, even though I was serious about my art. Um, from there, I ended up taking a little bit of a break while I kind of figured out how to support myself while also making room in my life for these sorts of things. Cuz honestly like when I was working retail and rough jobs like that, like that's when I had the least amount of creative energy and like my entire life. Um, so I really feel for people who have to balance that sort of thing. Um, but eventually I decided to go to community college and um, Southern main community college has a really great communications and new media major. Um, so I had always been using Photoshop, but they taught me how to use Photoshop better and taught me all sorts of other really interesting technical skills that I could apply right away and uh, sort of use to, to kind of get back into comics and it felt a bit more manageable because I had all these new tools that I could use to make things a bit easier. And uh, yeah, so I was making more comics then and I guess it's just like, it gradually builds over the years. Like I, I gather tools and confidence and I practice a lot. And then in 2011 I became the first, um, like I hadn't intended to apply for this thing, but one of my, my comic friends who I had met through the comic shop when I was younger, had been like, you gotta apply for this. Like I saw it. And you were the first person I thought of, but it was, um, the associates of the Boston public library, uh, have a really special fellowship, which is for writers of work for children and young adult audiences. And it's a funded fellowship where you get an office in their building and you go in a few times a week and you make a book while you're there. And they wanted an author illustrator for the first time. And I was like, okay, I've had ideas for a book for a while. I guess I'm gonna pitch it to them and hope for the best. And I actually got it, which was one of the biggest shocks of my life. Uh, but it just that gift of like time. So I didn't have to work a retail side job anymore was a short graphic novel, like 100 pages. But it, that practice made such a big difference. And then from there it all just sort of like started picking up a lot more. Like I got work doing short comics and anthologies, I've done dozens of those now. And they've been incredible practice and such a good experience because you end up working with a lot different editors who give you very different feedback, but all of it kind of works toward helping you become a more well rounded creator. Um, and uh, yeah, and then I started pitching book length projects, like sincerely Harriet was my first big published graphic novel. Um, and that had been a few years in the making and uh, yeah, and now I'm on a steady role with graphic novels now, which is pretty incredible, cuz that was pretty much my dream the whole time. So I'm very happy

Speaker 1: 17:54

Now. It truly is incredible when you reach that point and feel like, oh, Hey, I'm here. This is what my teen self was dreaming about. Look at that.

Speaker 2: 18:05

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:06

Um, well thank you for sharing your story. I, I take two things away from it that I wanna point out for. Um, our aspiring writers and illustrators who are listening. One is to put yourself out there, like apply for that fellowship or that scholarship or send your story into that magazine or whatever it is. Cuz the worst thing that could happen is that someone says no, but maybe they say yes, which is just epic when it happens. And then also I love that you, you know, you started out, I mean I think a lot of people who wanna go into art, artistic fields, there's this idea that, oh, I have to go to art school. I have to have an art degree. Um, and I like hearing stories that say like, no there's different paths and just cuz this path works for somebody. It may not work for everyone else. And that doesn't mean that this, you know, dream is wrong or that you can't have this goal or make it happen. Doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. It just means you need a different path.

Speaker 2: 19:13

Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of my friends like who are established in comics right now, like they never went to art school. They may have gone to university, but maybe they majored in psychology and worked in a lab for a few years or something while they figured out that comics were their things. So like yeah. There's any different ways to get to the same destination.

Speaker 1: 19:36

Yeah. No, absolutely. Uh, OK. On that note, let's talk about your new book that just came out. Would you please tell listeners a little bit about the greatest thing?

Speaker 2: 19:50

Yeah. So, uh, sorry, I'm gonna look up the summary for it.

Speaker 1: 19:56

You haven't practiced your pitch

Speaker 2: 19:57

Way more. Not really like it's funny being on in Australia. Like I don't have to do many live things these days. I don't have to explain things in real time. So, uh, it, uh, so there's the official synopsis, but I have one that I wrote, Um, which isn't necessarily better, but it describes it in sort of the way I see it. So I'm gonna read that. Um, so it's a fictionalized memoir, um, about a sophomore year of high school. And the general summary is when a friend faces her sophomore year of high school with dread, until she meets a pair of offbeat freshmen. They teach her how to modify her clothing, to feel more comfortable in her skin, using pins and patches to create a suit of armor these new friendships in the comic scenes they produce together. Keep when afloat, as she navigates issues of body image, disordered, eating and depression. The greatest thing is a fictionalized memoir about the kinds of well-meaning moments and quiet mistakes that help a person figure out not just who they they are, but who they need to become.

Speaker 1: 21:11

So I thought it was a really beautiful book and there's a lot of big topics that are talked about and dealt with that I think are gonna mean a lot to a lot of young readers. Um, which I think is always just really P powerful, particularly when readers find out that it is like you say, a fictionalized memoir. And I think there's something, you know, for readers to read something and be able to connect with it and realize like, oh, this is coming from a person's real history and background. And you know, they're really speaking from their heart experience. I think it's really powerful for someone to know like, oh, I'm going through this too and I'm not alone. Um, so talk to me just a little bit about writing a fictionalized memoir. How do you, I mean first, so start with, I imagine it takes a ton of courage to write about things that are very personal and it probably hit really close to home. Um, how do you, you kinda give yourself the, the courage and even like the permission to go forward to tell you stories?

Speaker 2: 22:25

Um, well I think I can only speak from my own perspective as like a fairly privileged white person and stuff, but like I don't really see it as a courageous thing. It's the entire process actually felt really self-centered and uh, that's kind of why I chose to make it fictionalized cuz I'm like, okay, this all happened 20 years ago from the, a publication date. So like it takes place in 2002. So, uh, that's a long, I mean even if it was more recently, I think it would have the same issues, but really I don't trust my memory and I don't trust myself to be able to tell anyone's story, but my own. So kind of making it as selfish in scope as possible was my approach like, okay, I do want to include all things that happened between me and other people and it's important for pieces of them to be represented in the other characters, but I don't want them to necessarily be able to see themselves in those characters, any sort of conclusions or catharsis I got out of the stuff that happened between us. Like they might have experienced it very differently. So I really can't, um, even pretend to know what was going on in everybody else's mind. So I just kind of was like, okay, this is a selfish book about a naive selfish, young kid. Who's just figuring stuff out. And from there, like, yeah, it was just a matter of like fictionalizing. It gave me a lot of freedom to make it a more cohesive and clear story than like some of the, the resolution that the character, when a Fred finds I never had or their thing that I only found through reflection over many years and that's not helpful to the readers that I want to reach. So yeah, I wanted to make sure, like it's not a book with a super clear, like it's not really a happy ending book, but it's not a sad ending book either. It's just like realistic but optimistic sort of ending. And I don't know, I wanted to be able to give people that without having to make them wait until like win was 19 and uh, figuring out like finally running into friends again and uh, making up with them and yeah. So yeah, I hope that my goals come across clearly in it so far from like reviews and stuff. I think it was mostly successful in that. So I hope that readers get that too.

Speaker 1: 25:27

Yeah. I, I am interested by the idea of you thinking that it's a, a selfish book and I can I get, I, I can see that interpretation and we think that there is probably a, you know, a therapeutic element, um, when we're writing about our own lives. Um, but it, to me, it feels like such a gift of a book. Um, and I know even, you know, just the, for me, like all of the sub plots revolving around found family and you know, this somewhat awkward girl finding her people and like that touches so deeply for me and how important it will was when I found my people in high school. And so I, I don't know, I, I get it, I get the selfishness aspect, but to me it's also like you've written something really beautiful and really powerful that I really enjoyed.

Speaker 2: 26:28

Thank you. I appreciate that

Speaker 1: 26:31

When you are fictionalizing real life, um, and you mentioned that it, it gives you, you know, some freedom, you don't have to stick as close to the facts or, you know, the actual timeline, the actual progression of things. You can maybe tie a neater bow on things than happened in real life. What do you do when you come across, um, you know, a memory like, do you, how close are you trying to stick to real life versus give, giving yourself the freedom to be like, eh, I'm just gonna throw out anything that doesn't work for this story.

Speaker 2: 27:12

Um, honestly I think the only, I mean, besides kind of for the characters other than myself, I tried to combine a lot of people and, uh, of obscure their actual details as much as possible, um, while still remaining true to the kinds of experiences that we shared. Um, so those were some of the biggest changes. And then I think really the rest of the changes were just logistical. Like I like all of the big moments were very real. So, um, for example, when, when a Fred, uh, has a dark depression time and her, uh, school counselor gets involved, that actually happened and it's quite close to what actually happened. Um, and like when's independent study where she got really close to a teacher, um, that really happened, um, and stuff like when's big conversations with the, her two friends at the very end, um, her conversations with April and Oscar, those both really happened. Um, so the really big things were, are all very true and when's emotional journey is all very true. And the things that I ended up tweaking were like, um, for example, we did make zines, but they weren't quite so pointedly metaphorical in real life. Um, we, we all produced work that was very, uh, angsty and reflected the problems that we were feeling and all that stuff, but they were aren't quite so, uh, kind of perfectly woven together from all of us at the same time. So the zines were an invention that were just inspired a little bit from, uh, stuff that we'd done individually and together. Um, so that was one of guess changes and, um, yeah, just stuff like that, that kind of, as you said, ties it up with a bow better than real life did essentially.

Speaker 1: 29:41

Um, I did, I actually really wanted to talk about the zines in particular, cuz I love a story within a story element. Um, and I thought it was a really fun detail, you know, that we have, uh, Winfred, our main character, who's getting into comics and you know, has this assignment to create this comic. And meanwhile her and her friends are starting to make zines. And so then you kind of pull in this fantasy story and we actually get to see these zines that they're creating. Um, and like you say, they're very metaphorical, you know, there's a lot of themes that play on the bigger story at large. Um, but then it also just makes for this like fun, unexpected fantasy element in the book. Uh, would you say those chapters were easier or more difficult to write than the more memoir esque chapters?

Speaker 2: 30:37

Definitely easier. Like, all I had to do was tap into the, the 15 year old me that was still thinking about my sailor moon stories and just, I got to be as self indulgent as I wanted with those because doing it any other way, just wouldn't like it's really hard. The hardest part was making sure that I was writing something that fell like the characters would have written it like, okay. So I'm remembering what feels important to me when I was 15. And like my world was much smaller and much more intense in some ways, but less intense than others. Just like, okay, how do I boil this down to just like the core pieces of like aesthetic stuff that I loved back then? Like something that I'm not sure readers will pick up on cuz I never really like focus on it much is. Um, so Oscar is the character who write the stories. Um, and his self insert character is called wild. Cause I remember my friend who he's partly based off back then was he, we all read the picture of Dorian gray and then he started reading about Oscar wild and he went on a huge Oscar wild kick and at the same time, uh, so in the story Winne, Fred's self insert character that she introduces into their little fantasy universe is called Aubrey. And I had gotten obsessed with Aubrey beards Lee's art. And when we found out that they were contemporaries and that they'd worked together on things and that Aubrey Hader, some of Oscar Wild's work, we were like, whoa, like it's like a, so it wasn't like us because now reading about them, like Beardsley was a mess and uh, they didn't actually like each other. So I'm glad we didn't know those parts at least. Uh, but back then we were like, oh, like it's fate. So I remember introducing pieces of Aubrey beard, sleeves, inking style and to the stuff that we made together. And it was a whole thing. So I tried to make sure that I included the pieces of beards Lee's work. Like just the strong, like black and white ink work is just such an iconic piece of his style. So I tried to make sure that I included that in the comics and yeah, so it was very fun and Dion,

Speaker 1: 33:21

Well, I, I think you can tell in reading it that you were having fun with them. Um, I was part of the reason I asked the question is cuz it's like, well with, with writing, the more the memoir chapters, you know, an argument I think could be made like, oh, but these things happened like you're is kind of following the, the, you know, step by step of a story that you've lived through. Whereas in creating the more fantasy chapters it's like, oh, now I have to start from scratch and, and create a whole story. And also there's gotta be symbolism and metaphor and things that like relate to what's happening in the, the rest of the book. And uh, so I, I was really curious to hear how you know, which was easier for your, which was more fun, but you can definitely tell that the enjoyment came through.

Speaker 2: 34:11

Thanks.

Speaker 1: 34:14

Um, okay. This is kind of a nerdy detail slash question, cuz I'm a research I love researching. And so this popped into my head when I was reading it, um, at one point, cuz this story takes place in the early two thousands, as you mentioned. Um, and at one point in reading it, I started like noticing all of the little like background details that really keyed us into that time period, like landline phones and like enormous, you know, desktop computers and things like that. Um, and I totally felt like I was, you know, living in my, or living in 2002 again. Um, did you just like drop purely from, for that sort of stuff or do you actually have to go and do some research to try to get those details? Right.

Speaker 2: 35:10

Um, I pretty much drew from memory. Like that was such an intense part of my life. Like I remember so much of it so clearly like instant messenger and the big boxy monitor and how that was around the time when flat screen monitors started picking up the, but they were still like priced a little bit out of like my family's range. So we still had one of those big boxy monitors and um, like I ended up having big discussions about this stuff with like my editor Robin, cuz like something that I think is also really key about something like that is if you were even just a year or two older or younger than I was, then you would've had a, quite a different experience because you would've had access to very different technology or you would've remembered different technology being more prominent. Hmm. So I remember talking to my editor and also talking to some friends who had read the book for me and it's like, okay, in 2000 to some of my friends already had cell phones, but I very distinctly remember that in my experience of 2002, only one of my friends had a cell phone then and she had no one to text. Nobody else. The only person she texted was her mother about like pickups from school. So like, but then like my friends who are a couple, just a couple years older than me are like, well, no, like I had a cell phone, but it's like, well it's different when you're a senior and you have a job and you can pay for it and your friends are a little older. So they're also getting their phones. There's more pressure. Like it's just so interesting. Or like another thing that came up is like, I very distinctly remember my high school experience being a lot about like so CDs and DVDs were like the established like standard media formats at that point, but they were, are expensive. So like you could save up 20 or$30 to buy the DVD of a movie you love or you could get lucky at a garage sale and find the VHS for$5. So I had so many, I was buying VHS's like into my twenties when were like already obsolete, but they were so inexpensive and I couldn't afford to have that many movies otherwise. So I was still buying VHS's long after everyone else stopped. Um, and, and uh, Oscar has a tape player and something about tapes that I think people forget is like some people who read early drafts of my book were like, so is it realistic that he's still making mix tapes? And I'm like, honestly, like in 2002, I remember sitting in a friend's living room and us trying to burn CDs and having a horrible time with it because the like the technology you, you could like, you could burn a CD at home, but half the time it was going to turn out corrupted. And when it didn't turn out corrupted, like you still had to go and like have enough time on your dialup connection to download a song, to put it on a CD and all of these barriers. Whereas with the tape, you can just record things off of other tapes. You can record things off of CDs and it's all headache free. You just do it on your boombox and then you have a mixed tape. And we were doing that all through high cause it was just so much easier and so much cheaper. And I think a lot of people either, if they were a couple years younger CD burning technology got a lot better. So they probably just remember that. Or if they were a couple years older, they were able to afford CDs or something. So it's just it's yeah. 2002 is a very strange to I'm technologically. I think

Speaker 1: 39:17

That's funny. I do think, you know, these days people will like make a Spotify playlist for somebody and I'm like, that is not nearly the amount of effort that we had to put into making like an actual, um, sorry, you just said the word, um, mix tape for somebody like that was if you made a mix tape for your boyfriend or girlfriend and your crush, like that was dedication.

Speaker 2: 39:44

Yes. It was so much work.

Speaker 1: 39:48

All right. I do wanna switch gears, um, and give us a chance to talk a little bit about your contribution to serendipity. Um, which is a, of course the anthology that I edited that just came out in January. Um, and I remember way back when, um, like my publisher had given me the thumbs up, go ahead, Marisa, start picking your authors. And I was like, can I please have a graphic novel insert? And I was so happy that they said yes and the, and so happy when you said yes, cuz even by then, I was like, we're like not gonna give somebody a ton of time. We're already kind of on a short deadline. Who am I gonna find that is gonna like say yes and be able to pull this off and you were in and I was so psyched about it. Um, so thank you first of all, for being in the anthology and contributing your lovely story,

Speaker 2: 40:44

That email was a very nice surprise. I was delighted.

Speaker 1: 40:49

Um, do you wanna tell listeners a little bit about your story Keegan's heaven on earth and what romantic trope?

Speaker 2: 41:00

Yeah, so Kegan's heaven on earth is, uh, it's inspired by the secret admirer trope. And it's about, uh, a very vivid memory I have of my high school experience. Uh, and I think this is something that happens across a number of high schools in the states is, um, around Valentine's day, you can order flowers and have flowers sent to your classmates. And usually they have a few different colors or types available so that you can kind of pick a color and it says something if you want it to, to, um, whoever you're sending it to and you can send it secretly or with your name on it. Or there were some kids that pranked other kids by saying it was from someone else, but that's mean, so I

Speaker 1: 41:47

Don't do that. That's awful.

Speaker 2: 41:49

Um, yes. Uh, I was not going to explore the trope of being an. So, um,

Speaker 1: 41:56

I mean it is a classic in the Rocom world.

Speaker 2: 42:02

Yes. So, uh, yeah, so I just wanted to kind of take that and also take like something that I was going through. Uh, when you asked me to, um, to do this story is, uh, like I, I had known that I was non-binary for a while, but I was in the process of coming out to the people in my life. And, uh, I was in a very lucky position where like, it was a non-issue for pretty much like there were no big dramas that came out of it in my life, which I'm very grateful for, but it was still tiring. So I really wanted to write a character who was just like, yep. I came out and it's fine and everyone is fine, but I'm tired. So, uh, that's the character of make, and then Keegan has a crush on Mickey, but she also wants to be thoughtful of the fact that Mickey is tired. So it's just kind of these two kids kind of making compromises to kind of meet in the middle and uh, try something knew, I guess.

Speaker 1: 43:19

Why did you choose the secret admirer trope? Like what was it about that trope that spoke to you?

Speaker 2: 43:27

I mean, it's just classic and it was the clear answer when I figured out, like I didn't start with the trope I started with like, okay, what's a fun cuz it had to be like an indulgent romantic thing. Right. So I'm like, all right, what have I not made a story about yet that I would love to do? And I just started thinking about those flower ordering, uh, events. And I was just like, ah, I gotta do one of those. And then of course that's the perfect venue for a secret admirer to make themselves known. So it all kind of came together from there.

Speaker 1: 44:06

It is, it is the perfect venue. And I like, I remember loving when the, the flower things would show up because I was such an optimist. Like I never received one of those flower, but I always hoped, I always had so much hope. Um, did you ever send or receive any in, in high school,

Speaker 2: 44:26

Only friendship, flowers,

Speaker 1: 44:28

Friendship,

Speaker 2: 44:28

Flowers. Yeah, but those were nice too. I'm a big fan of friendship. So I'm not complaining about that.

Speaker 1: 44:36

I remember in was, it must have been ninth grade, maybe 10th grade. Um, I had a huge crush on this boy. I'd never spoken to him, but to me I thought that he looked like Mamoru from sailor moon. And so I just thought he was so dreamy. And so one that Valentine's day I did send him a flower. We might, I mean he knew my name, so I don't know. Maybe we'd spoken or maybe we were in a class together. I don't really remember, but I did send him a flower and I have such a clear memory of him coming up afterwards and thanking me. Oh, that was really nice. And that was the last time we spoke. So, but at least you nice about it.

Speaker 2: 45:17

Yeah. And it's nice when someone is like secure enough in themself to like thank someone for something. Cause honestly, like, I don't know. It's easy for those things to get really weird. So that's nice. But he said, thank

Speaker 1: 45:32

You. Yeah, it was, I was, oh, I was so nervous. All right, Sarah, are you ready for a happy bonus round?

Speaker 2: 45:42

Sure.

Speaker 1: 45:44

Tea or coffee,

Speaker 2: 45:47

Tea,

Speaker 1: 45:48

Music or silence

Speaker 2: 45:51

Music

Speaker 1: 45:53

Writing in the morning or writing at night

Speaker 2: 45:57

Night.

Speaker 1: 45:58

What is your favorite writing snack?

Speaker 2: 46:03

Oh, that's hard. Um, either really good orange or this makes me sound boring, but pretzels are awesome.

Speaker 1: 46:15

Very healthy choices.

Speaker 2: 46:19

Um, well sometimes the pretzels are covered in chocolate. So

Speaker 1: 46:23

There you go. Um, on that note candy hearts or a box of chocolates

Speaker 2: 46:31

Chocolate, definitely.

Speaker 1: 46:34

If the greatest thing had a theme, song, it be,

Speaker 2: 46:39

Uh, I have a Spotify playlist for this. Uh, sorry. I'm gonna take a second and look at it because I don't remember what's on, I, I have

Speaker 1: 46:52

A Spotify or I have a, a playlist mine's actually on YouTube music. Cause I'm not cool. I guess I, um, but I have a playlist for Giled and yet every time this question comes up, like what song to you is, you know, reminds you the most of Giled like my mind goes blank. I can't think of any of them.

Speaker 2: 47:11

I'm gonna say like the words aren't quite spot on, but the mood is spot on, but baby, I'm an anarchist against

Speaker 1: 47:22

What is one small thing that brings you a lot of joy.

Speaker 2: 47:27

My cat.

Speaker 1: 47:30

Do you have any writing rituals?

Speaker 2: 47:36

Hmm. I gotta have a big glass of ice water and if it doesn't still have ice in it, like if it isn't still cold, I have to go fix it.

Speaker 1: 47:44

Hmm. What book makes you happy?

Speaker 2: 47:51

Hmm. This one summer.

Speaker 1: 47:55

Oh, that's a good one. I love that. Yes. What are you working on next?

Speaker 2: 48:04

Um, right now I have four books in progress. Uh, Uh, it's funny is publishing moves so slowly that like, it feels like I'm pitching things forever. And then all of a sudden they all happen at the same time. But, uh, my next Y project is, uh, it's a contemporary, uh, comedy romcom thing. So I'm excited about that

Speaker 1: 48:37

Speak in my language. Yes. Lastly, where can people find you?

Speaker 2: 48:45

Um, I've got a website swsi.com. Uh, that's S w I N S E a. And I'm also SWSI on Twitter and Instagram.

Speaker 1: 48:56

Awesome. Sarah, thank you so much for joining me today.

Speaker 2: 49:00

Thank you. This was cool

Speaker 1: 49:03

Readers. Definitely check out the greatest thing it is available. Now, of course, we encourage you to support your local indie bookstore. If you can, if you don't have a local indie, you can check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marisa. Next week, I will be talking to Dallas Woodburn about her new contemporary Y thanks, Carissa for ruining my life. If you're enjoying these conversations, please subscribe and follow us on Instagram at Marisa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast. And don't forget to go enter our, our 100 episodes giveaway until next time stay healthy, stay cozy and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling a little bit happier.