Genuine Character Arcs in this Austen-Inspired Contemporary - JC Peterson - Being Mary Bennet

Marissa chats with JC Peterson about her debut YA contemporary - BEING MARY BENNET - as well as the truth universally acknowledged that it can be difficult to talk to family and friends about your writing journey, and why it's important to have writers in your life who "get it"; writing character arc-driven books that contain genuine growth, not superficial makeovers, and how the relationships in the story can shine a light on the different ways your protagonist has changed; one technique to try if you're worried your character's voice might be falling flat; how to handle a secondary character that your readers will have a very different opinion of than your protagonist; writing a romantic interest that is both super dreamy and also very believable; and using humor, banter, and voice to make your unlikeable protagonist... well, likeable.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:10

Hello, and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books, to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I am your host, Marisa Meyer. Thank you for joining me one, making me happy this week. Uh, it's actually making me happy for about a month now, is that for my birthday, my husband treated me to something I have been wanting for a few years now. And that is that he had permanent Christmas lights installed on our house. Uh, it's just what it sounds like. They are like these little L E D lights, um, that are very inconspicuous and they live on the house year round. But what I really love, not just that. Now I get to have Christmas lights without my husband or father-in-law having to get up and down the ladder every year, um, is that you can change the, to be like any color, any pattern you can make them sparkle, you can make them do tricks. Uh, it's really, really fun. So for Valentine's day, we had pink and red. Um, and this last week we had green and gold for St. Patrick's. Uh, and I'm super excited to pick out my pastels for Easter. And they're just like really, really fun. And of course the girls love it and love playing with the app and making them do all sorts of fun things. Uh, so yeah, that's been really bringing us all a lot of joy and like, why should all the fun be relegated to December? I am so in for holiday lights all year around, I am also so happy to be talking to today's guest. She's a graduate of Michigan state university who worked several years as a journalist in Oklahoma city, and now resides in Denver, her debut, Y contemporary being Mary Bennett just came out this past week. Please welcome J Peterson.

Speaker 2: 2:07

Hey, thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1: 2:09

Thank you for coming and happy lunch week. How has it been going?

Speaker 2: 2:13

Thank you. You know, I was really nervous, but I, I woke up like the day before my launch and was just like, I can't do anything else. There's literally nothing else for me to accomplish right now, except two, enjoy it to celebrate. So it's been pretty fantastic.

Speaker 1: 2:30

That is a really great feeling and a great way to think about it because I know how stressful the weeks and months leading up to the launch can be. And you feel like you're, you've got a million plates in, there are a million balls and you're just trying to get all of the things done. And it's important to pause and celebrate the book is out it's here. It's real.

Speaker 2: 2:52

I know it's been it's yeah, it's just been, it's like the surreal, wild, fun experience. Um, I, I think I didn't quite know how I would feel. And so it's, it's been nice just to like, sit with it. Yeah. And, and just kind of relax all week, like have fun things and celebrate and dinners. And my husband and I went to a hotel for a couple nights, which I was so looking forward to cuz I mean we two kids, so we've been in a pandemic and parenting in a pandemic for two years. Um, but it's just, it's been lovely. It's been lovely.

Speaker 1: 3:29

That's awesome. What a wonderful way to celebrate. I, as much as we love our kids, I think getting away from them is such a healthy thing to do once in a while.

Speaker 2: 3:38

Right. That's a, we always tell them, we're like, we are better parents when we get a break. This is about you guys and also us.

Speaker 1: 3:44

Right. It's a gift for everybody. Yeah. Well, good for you. And congratulations. Um, I'm really excited to talk to you, uh, about your origin story. Um, because in one of our emails, you mentioned that, but you had quite a lot of roadblocks on your path to publication. Um, but you did not go into explain that at all. So I'm, I'm really looking forward to hearing. What was your story? How did you go from wanting to be a writer to now having your debut book out in the world?

Speaker 2: 4:20

Yeah. You know, I think a lot, like a lot of writers, you know, when you start out, you kind of think that it's going to be a straight path. You're like I'm starting down my, my writer path and it's just like, nothing else is gonna happen. There's gonna be no rocks, no stumbles. Um, but I think a lot of us writers, we realize this as we get into it it's so there are, there's so many detours, there's so many things that we have to go around and you only reach the end by persevering by being like, this is what I do. And I can't do anything else because I can't not be a writer. Um, and so that's, that's where like the celebration comes from and the finding wins started out writing. Um, I was tell this story of, I, I married my husband and he was in the military at the time. And so I moved to a new state. That's how I moved to Oklahoma city. Um, and then he was deployed to Iraq like right after we got married. I mean, it was, you know, like four or five months after, but I didn't know anybody. So I was like, I'm gonna go to my job and then I'm gonna come home. And I'd had this idea for a book kind of percolating for a while. And I had it all written down on notes that like during breaks at work or just random times, I would write down snippets of things about characters, lines, plot ideas. They were all very bad. They're all very, very things that I could never use again. Right. Cause there was a little, little baby writer who didn't know what he was doing, but he was deployed and I spent five months just writing a book because I had, I had a cat and I had a job and I didn't really know anybody yet. So he came, he came home and I was like, Hey, guess what? I think I wanna be an author. And, and since that moment he's been like, he's been my number one cheerleader. Um, he, I always call him my stage husband because he's always there either cheering me or coming up with ideas for like, Hey, you could talk to this person. You know, we have a contact here to try and, you know, cause a lot of writing is also networking and marketing yourself and everything. Um, so I wrote, I started writing why fantasy because that's what I loved to read. And that's just where all my ideas were living. But after, I mean, lots of false starts, right. So many false starts. I kind of, I found my voice in writing romcom. And I think a lot of that came from at the time I was working in a paper and I had a first person column and it was a very voicey column that helped me develop my voice and realize like that's just where I live. I live in that romcom or fun voicey writing. Um, so I switched to writing AYA contemporary and I, I ended up signing with an agent, but my book died on submission. It never sold. So, um, I started writing something new and in the interim that agent left a business, which is a story that you hear often, it happens to so many people, but it's something that I feel you don't hear about until it happens to you. It happens to you. And then everyone's like, oh, I know somebody who this happened to me too. Um, yeah. And so I, I reached this point where I had been working on being Mary Bennett as like my second book to go out on submission, my agent left. And then I had, I had my second child two weeks after she left the business. And so, I mean, I just, I was like, okay, I'm done. Like, I'm this isn't happening. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna hang it up. I now have two kids that are like three in a newborn. Right. So I thought that I could be done writing, but I kept kind of how I started out. I kept like squiring away little snippets of lines and character ideas and edit ideas. And about a year after I had my second child, I, I applied on a whim for pitch wars as kind of like a, let's just see what happens. Like I, I can't stop thinking about, about this book. I can't stop thinking about writing even though outwardly I'm saying like I'm done. Um, and I got in and that kind of kicked everything off because after that it happened very fast. But you know, when I think about it, I started writing in 2006, 2007 and I signed, I, I got my publishing deal in 2020. So it's a, that's a long road, very long road, but it's worked out well so far and I'm sure there will be more roadblocks, right? Just like anybody else who's in this writing world, there will be other detours, but so far it's I, I I'm so happy. I'm so happy that I kept going. Even when I was telling everybody like, no guys, I'm totally done. I don't write anymore. You know, secretly in my little writer brain, I knew that it wasn't done. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 9:15

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's one of the hallmarks. Cause I have other friends who had a point in their lives when they stopped writing and they gave up essentially. But I think that's one of the, the hallmarks of being a writer is you can't just stop. It's a part of you. Um, so even if you say I'm done, I'm done thinking about agents and editors and I'm never going down that path again. But the story ideas keep coming, the characters, keep speaking to you. Like you can't just stop.

Speaker 2: 9:51

It's like once you've turned on that tap, you know, I, you just, there's no turning it off. It's a, it's a one way valve.

Speaker 1: 10:00

It's

Speaker 2: 10:00

Always, it's always going to be there. And you know, even if it's like dripping out ideas or it's just like a full on daily shift of water, you know, it's, you can never, it's like once you accept that part of yourself, all the there's never going. There's never a, you're never gonna go back.

Speaker 1: 10:19

Yeah. Right.

Speaker 2: 10:20

So yeah. You know, and when I did, when I did pitch wars, I, my husband knew that I was doing it and a couple friends, but I didn't tell anybody because I was, so I had, you know, kind of bought into this idea of no, I'm done. I'm done writing. I've, you know, I've got two kids, I've I'm doing these other things now. And I remember we went, this was right before the pandemic. We went on vacation with my dad and stepmom. And I was like on deadline with rich wars edits. And I just did not tell them, I brought my laptop and was like quietly, like secret.

Speaker 1: 10:55

But you're like, why are you staring? Get that screen the time.

Speaker 2: 11:00

And I was so stressed. There was one day where I was like, so stressed out, but I just didn't. And I think that comes from, I, I don't know if it's my personality type, but I didn't want, I didn't want to disappoint them if it didn't happen, you know? Cause they hadn't known this whole story of me signing with an agent and the book not selling. And it's hard for a while to keep telling people, oh, there's no news or, oh, it's not good news.

Speaker 1: 11:22

Yeah. You

Speaker 2: 11:23

Just kinda stop. Um, and so I think I didn't, you know, I just, I didn't want them to feel and I don't think they would've felt disappointed, but for me, I was like, I don't want people to be disappointed again.

Speaker 1: 11:35

No, I, I relate to that so much. And I think probably a lot of people listening to like, I feel like as soon as you tell the people in your life, I want to be a writer and I wanna publish books, the question start, how's it going? How's your manuscript going? How's the, the search for an agent going, you know, blah, blah, blah. And of course so well intentioned it's, there's love behind these questions and we all know that, but when it's taking you 2, 3, 5, 10 years to finish a manuscript, submit it, get an agent, get an editor. Like it can get really discouraging to have to feel those questions all the time.

Speaker 2: 12:14

Yeah. Yeah. And it feels like you are just giving them the same answer over and over again. And so it's kind of, it, it, I started to worry that it came off. Like I just didn't wanna talk about it or, but really it's also, this world is pretty insular. So it can be, it can be hard to talk about, you know, that just all the different little steps to the outside world, I feel like it just, it looks bananas. Right? My, my dad would ask me questions after I had sold, you know, like what, what book are you working on? When is it coming out? And to, to explain to him like, this is a two year process, like I might have sold, I might have sold the book and signed to this contract, but it's not gonna be out for two years. And in the interim I'm gonna be writing another book. Like it's hard. It's a hard thing to wrap your head around.

Speaker 1: 13:03

It is. No. And I feel like this is one of the reasons why we all need writer, friends in our life because they're the only ones that you can really talk to the behind the scenes stuff and who are gonna get it, like talking about revisions, edit, brainstorming, you know, conflict and character arcs and these sorts of things. I can't talk to my mom about that sort of thing. Like she just wants to know if there's gonna be a movie. She wants to know when the next book is coming out. Um, it's, it's, it's a totally different conversation.

Speaker 2: 13:35

It is. It is. Yeah. It feels like, um, you know, now I listen to, so my husband works in it and I'll hear him use these acronyms. So because he, he also works from home and you'll hear him saying these acronyms, that just, I mean, it's, it's gibberish. It makes no, But like, so, so is what we do when we talk about it and you talk like, oh, there's an option package. Or, you know, I'm going into copy, edit, and then proofread. I mean, it, nobody knows what the, what that really means. Right. Right. When just so it's a, it's a wild world that we chose.

Speaker 1: 14:09

It is. No, it really is. Um, but what else are you gonna do?

Speaker 2: 14:15

Right. Right. I've always been a writer. And that's what I always say. Like writing is the only thing I know how to do. I can, I can write about different things, you know? Cause I was a journalist, but it's always gonna be writing for me.

Speaker 1: 14:28

Yeah. And I, I do love the, uh, the note about your column, uh, in writing in first person and to kind of developing that voice. Cuz that was one of my favorite things about this book was Marnie's incredible voice. Oh, thank you. Um, so I totally wanna talk about that, but first would you please tell listeners about your debut book? What is being Mary Bennett about?

Speaker 2: 14:54

Yeah. So being Mary Bennett is AYA romcom. That's inspired by pride and prejudice. And it's telling the story of Marni, who is the middle of five sisters. And she's just trying to figure out in this large family, like where she belongs, because she's trying so hard to figure out her place, but her younger sisters have their own disastrous things going. And her older sisters are like super competent and talented. And so she's just striving to figure out like, how do I, how do I stand out in all of this? And the truth is in the beginning, she doesn't, she doesn't know how to. So she stands out by being like super awkward and pedantic and trickling. But it's about her slowly realizing that she has a place she doesn't need to prove her worth to her family or her friends that she's making. She's pretty great as she is. She just needs to accept that about herself.

Speaker 1: 15:50

So

Speaker 2: 15:51

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:53

So of course, people who listen know, I love anything to do with Jay Austin, anything to do with pride and prejudice. Um, we said in our emails, like you contacted me, but you were already on the list of authors for me to be like, I want this author on my podcast. So it was perfect. Right. Um, that said, it's not really, I mean, it's kinda a pride and prejudice retelling, but not really. Um, you very much could have gone off in your own direction. So for people like me who hear Mary Bennett, Jane Austen, pride and prejudice, I'm in, uh, tell them a little bit about how pride and prejudice inspired book what's gonna be familiar and what is gonna be different.

Speaker 2: 16:36

Yeah. So first off it's contemporary. So it's taking place in like modern day San Francisco. But also I, when I started writing this and I didn't realize when I started it, that it would make it this weird convoluted thing, but I thought of it like a sequel, you know, you see so many of those of those like pride and prejudice, not quite retellings, but they're, they're taking, they're just, that's their starting point. And that's what I did too. So I was trying to think of after pride and prejudice ends after Lizzy has found her Darcy, you know, what's happening with the rest of the family, what's happening with my, you know, Lydia and kitty and Mary. Um, and so that, that was my jumping off point. So all of the characters are there. They're just, this is all happening in my head after pride and prejudice. And so I really, I really like that because within, you know, when you read pride and prejudice and you're reading it, looking for any signs of Mary, she's not, she's not in the book a lot. She's

Speaker 1: 17:34

Not,

Speaker 2: 17:35

And she's just kind of this background character that you can tell that Jane Austen's kind of, I mean, not a fan, not

Speaker 1: 17:41

Right. Very funny.

Speaker 2: 17:43

You know, and I kind of wonder if that is because she saw herself in Mary Bennett, maybe more than she wanted to admit, because I'll say I was watch watching an adaptation of pride and prejudice when it hit me that I was like, oh, I'm more like Mary in a lot of ways than Lizzy. And I think a lot of other people are too where, you know, we wanna be Lizzy. We wanna be, you know, witty and vivacious and be able to have that like quick banter. But a lot of us are maybe a little bit more awkward in social situations or, you know, want to be loved for who we are, but maybe don't know how to go about that. So that that's kind of where I was coming from. But I will say I try and put a lot of little, a little nods to the original in, throughout the book. I mean, I definitely have like a mention of boiled potatoes, you know, I'm, I'm not gonna go without having that little like Mr. Collins esque. Um, And just it, yeah, it was just, it was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun to take everything that, that I love about pride and prejudice and other classics and kind of insert it into this story.

Speaker 1: 18:52

Yeah, no, I love all of the book references, you know, and I'm with you. I, I didn't realize how much I related to Mary until I read this and you are right. Like so many of us, the, the bookish, the, you know, being a little awkward, the like she's kind of judgey toward her sisters and her family, but you also get the impression that she just kind of wants to be more like them. Like there's so many things that you can relate to.

Speaker 2: 19:24

Yeah. Yeah. She's, you know, I think in her, in her, in her heart, even when she's coming off the most prickly that she gets it it's coming from a place of her desperately trying to find where she belongs. Yeah. And wanting people to like her, even though she's convinced herself that she doesn't need people that she, you know, she starts out being like, I am a scholar, I've got my books. I don't need people, but, but even you see that she desperately wants friends and wants her family to love her because she's worried so much about how she stacks up to her sisters. Yeah. So it's, it's always there. Um, yeah, she was a lot of fun to write. She really, really was.

Speaker 1: 20:05

Yeah. So let's talk, cause I wanna talk character arc, um, because this is a very character or a driven book. Um, you know, we've got Marni early in the book, she kind of has this realization that she is Mary Bennett, the Mary Bennett of her life, of her family. Uh, she's definitely not the Lizzy. And then she enters into this kind of self-driven makeover story, um, you know, to say, okay, I'm gonna be a different person and that's, you know, kind of what drives the plot forward. But of course in the end we find it's more about not so much changing herself, but more of a self acceptance story. Um, and kind of figuring out I can be myself and also be part of my family and also have friends, et cetera. Yeah. Um, so for you, just talk a little bit about developing that character arc, uh, way, what were some of the, the challenges or some of the things that you were thinking about as you were kind of figur? Okay. How am I gonna get Marni from point a to point Z?

Speaker 2: 21:12

It was like point a maybe back to point a, but nicer.

Speaker 1: 21:16

Yes. That's a good, that's a great way to put it.

Speaker 2: 21:19

So, you know, once a challenge that I definitely had in the beginning is that I'm starting with who Mary is and Mary is not a big fan of Lizzy, right? She is, she is looking at her older sister, pretty judgey. Um, and so I'm starting with, I'm starting with Marni, my main character. It, she's not gonna, she's not gonna love her older sister. She's gonna, she's gonna be kind of judgey to her. She's going to desperately want to want up her in every way that she can. And so I'm, I'm starting from a place that, you know, she's pretty unlikable and I needed her to be unlikable and I wanted her to be unlikable. Cause that's something that I personally, I like to read characters who have genuine growth that, you know, that they don't start out. Perfect. And the only thing that needs to change is outward. You know, I is, is, is the world around them. I, I wanna see that they have to change too. Um, and so, you know, I wanted, I wanted Marnie's growth to feel really earned and not this perfect arc, you know, not, not this perfect straight path. So she makes a lot of mistakes to her outfit, but I'm hoping that I show that she's always learning from them and is genuinely trying to become a better person. But also I didn't want it to be one of those where it's like, oh, the, the weird nerd takes her glasses off and suddenly she's amazing. Oh,

Speaker 1: 22:45

She's so pretty under those glasses.

Speaker 2: 22:47

Right. I did not want that. You know, in, in an earlier version I had one of those just straight legit, like makeover scenes. And my mentors in pitch wars were like, you know, this doesn't really fit because she doesn't need to change who she is outwardly. She just needs to accept who she is and start loving herself. And so I have, she's like, is this gonna be a makeover? And her roommate Aira is like, no, I'm not doing that for you. Like, you can, I will help you if you want, but I'm not gonna take you into the bathroom and like pluck your eyebrows and, you know, like put on lipstick and suddenly you're a different person. Um, so it was, it was fun. It was fun to make her make so many mistakes, make so many mistakes, but learn from every single instance and become somebody who is kind and warm while still being pretty judgey and pretty bookish, you know, like she's a, she's not gonna, she's not gonna become a totally new person. She's just gonna become a bit better version of herself.

Speaker 1: 23:55

No, I'm so glad that you bring up, uh, that she is one of those characters that is unlikable in the beginning. Um, because here's what I love. And I don't know how much of this was intentional on your part, but if it was, it was masterful, uh, we've got Marni and you can like see her through the lens of all these people around her. And you can understand why people don't really like her that much, you know, she is arrogant. She is pedantic and awkward and like kind of cluelessly rude sometimes. Totally. Yeah. And so you can see like, you know, coming into this story. Yeah. She is the Mary Bennett and here's why her family thinks she's kind of the outcast and here's, you know, blah, blah, blah. And yet as the reader, I liked her immediately. Um, I was like, I like that. She's bookish and nerdy. I so get like this, that she would rather stay hold up in the library instead of going out to dinner with strangers. I'm like any day of the week I'm and then she also has this fantastic sense of humor. Um, and here, coming back to what you were saying earlier about developing your voice and, you know, kind of, uh, this, uh, just kind of being a more voicey narrative. I loved her voice. I loved her sense of humor. So how much of that would you say was Marni? How much is you? Like how much did you have to kinda work to bring that to the surface as you were writing? Or was she just like, yeah, I'm just funny.

Speaker 2: 25:43

Yeah. She, she's just kind of fully formed. I mean, really I will say I tend to be a voice or writer. That's just who I am. I'm gonna be, it's gonna be like jokes and banter and dialogue. And I don't think I could ever do anything different, but I will say from writing my next book, it's still voicey, but in a very different way. And I was, I was a bit nervous about that. I was like, can I do, can I continue to do voicey work? That doesn't just sound like Marni every single time. And so that is something, it was just there from the beginning. It's so hard to talk about voice this, because I kind of don't know any other way to write. Like it's always, it's always just been the thing with me.

Speaker 1: 26:26

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:27

So, yeah, so she was, she was funny from the beginning, cuz if not, she's just gonna be so doer that it, it would be a slog to read. Like I want to be, I want readers to be annoyed with her at the beginning. Like, oh my God, why is she making these awful mistakes, but also laughing at the way that she's phrasing things and the way that she thinks in her head, cuz in the beginning, you know, all, all of the voicing, this is all inside her head. She's not really saying funny things cuz I think she's not as confident in herself as she becomes. So I,

Speaker 1: 27:02

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:03

Yeah. The voice was always there.

Speaker 1: 27:05

Yeah. No and it's, I mean, I get asked all the time, um, about, you know, character development and voice and these sorts of things. Um, and I know what you're saying that there are some characters that just arrive in your head and you don't really have to work that hard. Um, if there was a writer who is listening to this and say, they're working on a first person's story and they feel like the character's just kind of falling flat, what advice would you give them?

Speaker 2: 27:39

Oh man. So my advice would be to Think about how that person would chat with their friends. Not about like, not something that is driving the platform. Like you don't need to worry about that right now, but if they were getting coffee with a friend or you know, going out for a night with a, with friends, how would they talk? What would they, how would they, how would their voice be inflected? Where would they put the emphasis? How would they have a shorthand? Cuz I think that's one of the ways that you can add that voicing to dialogue is by thinking about how the banter goes back and forth and how people complete each other's sentences or miscommunicate. Um, I think there's a lot of places there. And then also just reading a lot of the sort of voice that you are trying to, that you're trying to, to, to call up in your book. I think the more you read, the more you start to be able to pick out how authors do it, you know, you, you start to kind of dissect it. Um, and I think it comes from practice too. You know, I, I definitely have been in writer groups where people will read their dialogue and as they're reading out, out loud, you're realizing they, that it just it's plotting because they haven't because the, the characters aren't talking like they would really talk or they're not thinking like they would really think they're thinking all in terms of how do I drive the plot forward? How do I give you all the info information that I need to without letting the characters be themselves in that moment? And it doesn't need to be wall to wall. I mean, if it, if I had my way, it would be all my books would be wall to wall Panter But find, you know, I think it's a lot about finding through practice what that perfect blend is of moving the platform and not just like standing in a white box of a room with banter.

Speaker 1: 29:31

Yeah. That's great advice. I mean, it is one of those things that, I mean, like with all things of writing, the, the more you do the better, you're gonna get more easily. Some things are gonna come.

Speaker 2: 29:42

And my thing is plot. I have a pacing and plot where always what I, that's what I have to work hardest on when I'm writing. I feel like I feel like the dialogue and character, that's the first thing that comes to me. And then, I mean, there will be whole things. I have a notebook of lines of just like funny lines. And sometimes I'll find that like I have a whole idea based around this line. It just starts growing and changing and like turning into a book in my head based on a line. But that, but what I really have to work on in edits is always pacing is always getting my characters where they need to go in a timely fashion.

Speaker 1: 30:19

Yeah. For me, it's like the opposite. It, I feel like plot and pacing is like what I comes really naturally to me. Whereas like characters and world building are the two things that I'm constantly like having to push myself on and dig deeper and okay, go back to the beginning. How did I do this before?

Speaker 2: 30:38

Right, right, right. Yep. It's flipped. It's flipped for

Speaker 1: 30:40

Me on let's talk about relationships. Yeah. Because this book is full of relationships and they are all different. They are all like, I almost feel like everyone is a foil for a different side of Marni or yes of Marni. I almost said Mary Marni, what's her name? I know, I know. You know, we're seeing her, how she relates and interacts with all of these different people. You know, we've got her roommate slash friend, uh Aira, which kind of has its own drama happening. We've got, um, her relationship with her dad that she just so desperately wants his approval. We've got the four sisters just like in pride and prejudice. Uh, we've got two different love interests going on. So there's just a lot of relationships happening. And I feel like every one of those was given a really defined story of its own and a really defined a, you know, her relationships to every one of these characters changes over the course of the book, uh, was that I imagine that was probably really difficult, keeping them balanced. So kind of how did you work through that?

Speaker 2: 31:57

Yeah. Yeah. And I will say this is a romcom. I, I love writing romantic element, but that was the one that I had to work on bringing to the foreground more. It was, it was easier for me when I was writing drafts of this to focus on her friendship with Aira her roommate. And especially with her older sister Lindy who's the Lizzy character. Um, those were the things, those were the two relat that spoke to me the most. And that I think will inform who Marni becomes throughout her life. Those two relationships that she's able to build. I love that the, I love the love interest. I

Speaker 1: 32:38

Love it. Me too. I am, I am so in love with him. I will say, love him total book crush.

Speaker 2: 32:46

But I, I definitely had to go back through and be like, oh, we need to see more of, we need to see more of him because I was, I, I kept prioritizing her having interactions with Aira Orlin and you know, that was important to me too. I wanted, I wanted to see her having healthy, true relationships with other women who are going to help her love herself, help her become a great person and see how she helps them too. So that was, that was the, that was the most fun for me was writing Aira and Lindy and how she interacts with them. And Lola, the little sister, Lola was a big surprise for me, how much I liked writing her.

Speaker 1: 33:29

I loved her. No, I was gonna ask if you had a favorite side character,

Speaker 2: 33:34

It's Lola, it's a hundred Lola Lola it, so Mar Marni came into my head fully formed. Lola was not fully formed until she came strolling onto the page. And I, it surprised me so much. And actually my second book that I'm working on right now is about her. Oh,

Speaker 1: 33:51

I love that.

Speaker 2: 33:52

I never thought that I would do a companion novel to this, that I would continue on in this world. But Lolo was just like, yeah, that's what's happening. We're me.

Speaker 1: 34:01

I am so excited. Is it gonna be called being Lydia Bennett?

Speaker 2: 34:07

It's not. I thought about that. Um, okay.

Speaker 1: 34:11

That was a very long pause. So you were like, can I answer that

Speaker 2: 34:15

Question? I know I'm not sure. Well, cuz I've seen, like I've seen a draft of the cover and I just, I adore it. So I'm excited to start talking about that, but it's so weird right. In publishing, figuring out like when you can talk about things,

Speaker 1: 34:25

I know they're really weird about stuff, but I know, I have to say I loved their mom. Like she is so cringy. Oh yeah. So, but it's so brilliant because you know, you read pride and prejudice and because being in our, our modern sensibility, it's hard to kind of put your brain back 200 years ago and understand what the problem with her is. And I think that you did a, such a wonderful job bringing that character into a contemporary story. And like here is how embarrassing this character is supposed to be.

Speaker 2: 35:09

Oh yeah. She's, she's pretty great.

Speaker 1: 35:11

Yeah. No, I super, super fun character and yeah, just, I'm so sorry. Bennett sisters,

Speaker 2: 35:20

You can only have her in like very small doses, but yeah. I was thinking, you know, 200 years ago, obviously her big thing is gonna be like gotta marry these daughters. And also, you know, she and her husband probably married young and it's not like they could split up at that point. Right. So I wanted to, when I brought her into the modern era, I needed to make sure that I had a real reason why my parents, why the parents were still together. So I wanted to make

Speaker 1: 35:50

Her

Speaker 2: 35:51

Horribly cringy, but also get that like the dad, the dad is like, ah, team mom, her name's Julia Barnes. They, he gets her and he loves her and they're very different. Yeah. But they look together somehow. I don't know how, but they,

Speaker 1: 36:09

Some people just make it work. Right. Yeah. And I do. I mean, she is not without redeeming qualities. Um, and there is one moment in particular where her and Marni share a really sweet moment. And I felt like that moment was really powerful in showing just how far Marni has come as far as finding her place in her family.

Speaker 2: 36:34

Yes. For sure. Yeah. And I wanted, you know, these parents, um, so Julia, especially Marnie's mom, she loves her daughters. She, she adores them. She's not, she's not the sort of mom who, I didn't wanna make her a villain mom, but it's also a little complicated she's selfish. And she doesn't quite understand when her daughters are doing anything outside of what she thinks is the way you do things. So it, I, I wanted kind of that it's a little bit of a difficult relationship, but the love is there.

Speaker 1: 37:07

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 37:08

Even if it's hard to see.

Speaker 1: 37:10

Right. Uh, okay. So speaking of difficult relationships, um, I totally wanna talk a little bit about haze. Um, so we've got two love interests in this book. Um, but it's not a love triangle. I wanna lay that right out. Um, like I, I don't think it's, spoily to say no, that Hayes is problematic from the beginning and readers will pick up on that. Oh yeah. Um, so, okay. So we've got at the beginning, uh, this character hay, this, you know, fam friend of the family, this older guy and Marni is absolutely infatuated with him. Um, and it is such a stark Contra. I mean, he's kind of smarmy and you know, she, she just like sees sparkles every time he's near, but as the reader, you're like, oh honey. Right. Um, and such a sharp contrast to when we meet wit who is sweet and genuine and volunteers at an animal rescue shelter, and you just love everything about him. Um, so talk to me a little bit about haze and building that angle of this story. Because part of me thinks like this is probably really fun to write. Uh, Marnie's just like mellow dramatic, you know, self martyrdom and the unrequited love the pining, all of that at the same time. How much did you wanna smack her?

Speaker 2: 38:38

Oh, all the time. And the hard, the hard thing was writing, writing Hayes in a way that he is smarmy enough that we get it, but we can see that Marni has put on that. She's, she's just on willing to see the truth about haze and in her, you know, in her defense it's because she's built him up as this romantic interest that she can never get. And that's what makes him so appealing to her is that she can feel like, oh, this unrequited love. And I'm so true to him. And it makes her feel dramatic. And you know, like there's something true there in her head. It would never be acted upon, right. That she's gonna love him from afar. And that makes her, she thinks it makes her really amazing, right. That like, my love is so true. Right. But she's also like she's 17 turning 18. She's she doesn't know what she's doing.

Speaker 1: 39:35

Right. He's,

Speaker 2: 39:36

You know, I developed haze because when I was looking, when, when you think about pride and prejudice, to me, it's so clear that Mary and Mr. Collins should have been together. Right. He should have just kept going down the line And Mary and he didn't. But I feel like Mary would've loved that. She would've been a great, she would've been a great, like I'm blanking on the word now, a preacher, but what was it called? Then? He's a vicar or what, you know, whatever he is. She would've been great at that. Like wearing her little bonnets and reading books all day. Oh my God.

Speaker 1: 40:11

Telling you where you have gone wrong.

Speaker 2: 40:13

Right. Right. That's what she was made for. So that's why I was starting. It is Hayes is my Collins in the modern day. So when I was thinking about how to modernize him, you know, making him a tech, bro, who's desperate for approval just seemed to fit perfectly. Right. He's he's not super good at what he does, but he is gonna, he's not gonna shy away from talking out it and talking himself up and yeah, just, it, it all, it all fit to me. Um, yeah, it, it was, but it was hard. It was hard to make him smarmy enough that we all got it. But now that it would be so glaringly obvious to Marni

Speaker 1: 40:52

Because yeah,

Speaker 2: 40:53

He's so terrible. Oh, he's

Speaker 1: 40:55

He really is. He's so gross, but I totally get at it. And I think especially being bookish as a teenager, like I think a lot of us, we get that feeling like there is something weirdly satisfying about unrequited love, you know, and, and putting yourself as that heroin in the story. Um, you know, I, I totally get it

Speaker 2: 41:24

Well. Yeah, because it makes you, it makes you feel a little superior, right. Because Marni feels superior to her younger sisters because her love is, is of it's of this more like pure, almost like none like nature, but also because it's unrequited, she's never expected to act upon it because that would scare her. And so in her head, this is the perfect love for her because she doesn't actually have to do anything about it.

Speaker 1: 41:52

Right. Right.

Speaker 2: 41:54

Think about it and live it in her head. Um, and so that's, that's why I loved how, how Haye and wit were so different and played off of each other because Marni Marni doesn't have to worry about her relationship with wit because it's, it comes easily. It's something that's actually genuine. You know, she's never trying to, apart with him or, or like extrapolate in her head, what would happen cuz it's just, it's, it's just a, a, a real emotion that she's feeling instead of something that she's making up with Hayes.

Speaker 1: 42:25

Right. Which, and again, coming back to, you know, how this, this book has so many different angles of her, her personal character are, it's like we go from this love at a distance to suddenly she is faced with something that has the potential to be real and seeing her like, well, what do I do with that? It's it's, uh, I think having the two paired across from each other and kind of in the middle was just a really great way of showing how, again, how she goes from being this version of Marni to the Marni that we finally have at the end.

Speaker 2: 43:04

Yeah. Yeah. And I just, I loved wit I mean, I loved making him,

Speaker 1: 43:08

I love wit I love him. I can, he's one of those male leads that I can see clearly in my head. Um, and you know, he's, and he's an interesting one because he is one of those characters. Like I were just to describe him to somebody like he's handsome, he volunteers at an animal rescue center, he knows how to Walts. Like he goes to Regency era, a ballroom because of his sister to do, he does it for his sister. Like, he, he sounds like, uh, you know, like a, like a hero in a romance novel. Right, right. And yet he, and an actual reading of it. He's not a stereotype. He felt very real and very fully fleshed at out.

Speaker 2: 43:56

Good, good. Cuz that's what I was hoping for.

Speaker 1: 43:58

Yeah. You did it, you nailed it.

Speaker 2: 44:02

It's so great. But yeah, I don't want him to feel like just like a cut and paste romance hero. Right. Like I wanted him to feel like a real person with, you know, when he walks off the page, you can imagine what he's doing. So, and it's making with dogs,

Speaker 1: 44:19

Right. This, yes. This is what he's doing right now in San Francisco.

Speaker 2: 44:22

Yes. He is going on the block with his, with his dogs and he's very happy.

Speaker 1: 44:27

Yeah. Uh, no, he was so charming. I really, really was swept away by him. Um, and then I have to ask, and this might be kind of a self-serving question. Um, whi is part Japanese. And at one point we learned that his Japanese name is Kau. Uh, and I'm wondering if he might be like the ancestor to the future east are Commonwealth emperor.

Speaker 3: 44:53

Oh,

Speaker 2: 44:53

I hadn't thought of that

Speaker 1: 44:55

All. Cause in my head, this is my head cannon,

Speaker 2: 45:02

You know, I had wanted, because, so, so in Japan, in, and I was, I was skewing time at little bit here because this is like seventies, eighties, nineties, there was an anime. It was, it started out as manga of a, of green Gables. And so it was like, this is how I can, this guy can know Anne of green Gables because he was introduced to it when he was living in Japan and having older sisters who were like all into it. So to me, he was, yeah, he was always, always an air force brat who had, you know, traveled around with this family and always had a really strong connection to Japan.

Speaker 1: 45:36

Yeah. I love that now. I, I like, like I said, I really love this character. I thought he was so, um, okay. Are you ready for our bonus round?

Speaker 2: 45:47

Sure.

Speaker 1: 45:48

All right. Tea or coffee

Speaker 2: 45:51

Tea. A hundred percent tea. My husband is so into coffee and I can't get into it unless it has like chocolate sprinkles. So all the way.

Speaker 1: 46:00

Right. 90% cream, little splash of coffee. Right,

Speaker 2: 46:04

Right, right.

Speaker 1: 46:05

Plotter or pan

Speaker 2: 46:07

Plotter who ends up changing almost everything that I had plotted when getting into it.

Speaker 1: 46:14

What is your favorite writing snack?

Speaker 2: 46:18

Ooh. Oh man. Everything. Um, I love candy. It will be my downfall. Um, so like sour patch, kids, hot Tamas chocolate, like any sort of movie theater candy. I usually have squirrel away in my desk

Speaker 1: 46:36

Library or bookstore.

Speaker 2: 46:40

I'm gonna say library. I grew up going to my little local library and love it. I just love library so much

Speaker 1: 46:47

Hard cover or paperback

Speaker 2: 46:51

Paperback. I get too nervous about hard covers and hurting them

Speaker 1: 46:58

A stroll through the garden or a turn about the room

Speaker 2: 47:02

Stroll through the garden.

Speaker 1: 47:04

How do you celebrate an accomplishment

Speaker 2: 47:08

By, Oh, I, I mean, I could say eating candy, making a dessert, going out to dinner with my, with my husband or family

Speaker 3: 47:18

A that's usually it.

Speaker 1: 47:20

What book makes you happy?

Speaker 2: 47:24

Ooh, I'm just reading one right now. Um, so last year the was stereo society of ladies. Scours came out by India, Hilton, very, very voicey, but it's like an anachronistic history, um, that has romance and her sequel or not a sequel companion novel just came out called the league of gentle women. Witches came out the same day as mine and I am reading it right now and it just makes me smile every time I open it.

Speaker 1: 47:47

What great time

Speaker 2: 47:49

Are they great. Oh my God. They're so

Speaker 1: 47:51

Good. They're fantastic. What are you working on next? I know you already told us a little bit about it. Is there any more information you can give us?

Speaker 2: 47:59

No, it's just, it's about, uh, it's gonna follow Marnie's little sister Lola as, and she's the lid, Lydia Bennett character. So she is true a disaster. Um, and this is gonna be her after things have gone south with her Wickum so she is trying to rebuild her life, but makes so many mistakes. Um, and it's about her being forced to be out in nature for a summer. She has to hike and camp and hates it except when she learns to love it.

Speaker 1: 48:30

Aww. I love that. And I can just see her out in the woods miserable. Okay. Oh yeah. Um, I have to ask, do we think there's gonna be a cat book?

Speaker 2: 48:40

Um, no, I don't think there's going to be. I just, I just had these two ideas for Marni and then Moola showed up. So I think I'll be moving on from this world after this.

Speaker 1: 48:51

All right. Lastly, where can people find you?

Speaker 2: 48:56

I am on Instagram and Twitter. Um, Instagram is JCP writes and Twitter is gen C underscore P. And then also you can find all of that from my website, which is JC Peterson, writes.com.

Speaker 1: 49:09

Awesome. Thank you so much for joining me today. Oh,

Speaker 2: 49:12

Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun

Speaker 1: 49:15

Readers. Be sure to check out being Mary Bennett. It is out now. Of course, we encourage you to support your local indie bookstore, but if you don't have one, you can check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marisa Meyer. Next week, I will be talking to Newberry award winner, Erin and TRO Kelly about her new middle grade novel. Those kids from FA Creek. And yes, I did say that last week, um, that there was some reshuffling of the schedule this time. I mean it, if you're enjoying these conversations, please subscribe and fall us on Instagram at Marisa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy, stay cozy and whatever life throws at you today. I hope that now you're feeling a little bit happier.