Newbery Award Winner Erin Entrada Kelly Talks Writing and Middle Grade Fiction - Those Kids from Fawn Creek

Marissa chats with Erin Entrada Kelly about her new middle grade contemporary - THOSE KIDS FROM FAWN CREEK - as well as including a multitude of points of view in your novel and how to give a unique voice and character arc to each one; some different ways to think about how you develop primary versus secondary characters; finding the middle ground when it comes to subtext, so that it is neither too vague or too obvious, and still leaves space for readers to draw their own conclusions; one fantastic question to ask yourself during editing that will help you decide what to cut and what to keep; how success does not make self-doubt or impostor syndrome go away, but how we can use those feelings to propel our work forward; and a question Marissa has never gotten to ask before: what was it like to win a Newbery Award?!

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:10

Hello, and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I am your host Maris Meyer. Thank you for joining me thing, making me happy this week. If you haven't heard about it yet is the heartless musical. I am so excited about this. Uh, I've talked about it quite a bit on social media, but I don't think I've brought it up yet on this podcast. So for those of you who haven't heard, there is a group of incredibly talented high school students near salt lake city, and they have written a script and the music and the lyrics for a musical inspired by my book, heartless, uh, and they're producing it. It is gonna be going live on the stage in April and they are so talented. I am just so amazed by this group of students and thinking that it's so cool. And I'm so excited. I'm gonna be flying in to see the show. We're gonna do a book exciting. Uh, and I just think it's like the coolest thing ever. Um, so if you're in the area, tickets just went on sale to see the show last week. Uh, and if you're not in the area or you can't fly into salt lake city, uh, they are gonna do a virtual premiere of the show. Um, so the, the life performance is on April 22nd. I think that Friday, whatever that Friday is, uh, and then the virtual premier is gonna be happening on Saturday, May 14th. Uh, so definitely check it out. I cannot wait. Uh, and you can find more information about, uh, the producers and about the show at heartless, the musical.com. And if you're going to the show, I will see you there. I am so excited. I am, of course also so happy to be talking to today's guest. She's the best selling and award-winning author of a number of books for young readers, including the 2021 Newberry honor. We dream of spa and the 2018 Newberry winner. Hello universe. She's also the author and illustrator of the maybe, maybe Marial rainy series and a teacher in the MFA programs at Hamline university and Rosemont college, her newest middle grade novel. Those kids from FA Creek us came out earlier this month. Please welcome Erin and Trada. Kelly. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I am so excited to have you, as I mentioned before, we started the recording. I read this book with my kids and we all loved it. And I got to hear lots of imaginative play in which my daughter's ponies became the main characters in the book, which is always really funny and adorable. Yes. Agreed. That's always an honor, right? Whenever you're characters inspire any kind of imaginative play or any kind of imagination, really. Absolutely. And obviously writing for middle grade or younger kids, I think you probably get a lot of that. I do. I do. And you know, it's interesting cuz middle grade is kind of a, a wide age range, right? Mm-hmm<affirmative> and uh, an eight year old is very different from a 12 year old. Um, so yeah, it's kind of across the board. Yeah, no, it is interesting. And I love having conversations cuz there are definitely things that, you know, my girls are seven and there are things that they're not picking up on and you know, certain subtext. And so I think it's fascinating to kind of see where their little developmental brains are and they're kind of translating some of the situations, which is different from how I'm seeing them. And yeah, it just makes for a lot of interesting conversation. Agreed. Um, all right, Erin, the first thing that I like to ask all of my guests is I would like to hear your author origin story. How did you know you wanted to be a and what were the twists and turns that your life took to get you to this place? So my author origin story started very, very young. Is this the case with many but not all writers. I started writing when I was about eight years old. Um, I was a very avid reader from since forever. And at some point I realized, you know, I was reading a lot of Judy bloom. She was my favorite author and I realized these are words on paper and I have words and I have paper and I have a pencil. So I started writing my own books. And so it started very, very early. And I knew from that point on, that's what I went it to be when I grew up was an author. As I got older, of course, um, the realities of what it means to be an author came into better focus, right? Because when you're in elementary school, you're like, oh, I wanna be an author and that's just gonna happen and I'm gonna be a best seller and it's gonna be amazing, you know, but then as you get older, you realize, wait a minute, um, you can't just be something, you know, you have to like work at it.<laugh>. So whenever I got, um, to high school, I thought, okay, what can I do? That's still writing, but can actually pay me a living wage while I write on the side. So I got went into journal. So I actually started my writing career, my professional writing career as a journalist, a newspaper journalist, um, in the nineties. So that's where I started professionally writing, but I was always writing short stories in, um, novels in my free time. And I was also a single mom and I was also going to school. I was doing all kinds of things, but I think one of the keys to knowing that, that, you know, you're doing something that means something to you is the fact that I found time, even while we working full time, even while going to school. And even while raising my daughter on my own, I always found time to write, even if it was just a little bit of time, cuz it was almost like my, my, um, safe space, you know, my outlet. So, um, I was doing that on the side and then I got an agent in 2012 and you know, the rest is kind of history. So that's my trajectory kind of a tradition. I'd say it's pretty traditional trajectory. You know, I queried, um, agents traditionally, I didn't go to conferences. You know, I didn't have money to go to conferences and, and do all these. They didn't have all these pitch chore things back then, but mm-hmm<affirmative> so that was pretty much my origin story. Yeah. How many books do you think you wrote before getting your first book deal? I would say, Hmm, maybe four as far as, as far as like, you know, actual books that, that had heft and, and substance to them, you know, I mean I wrote books in high school, but those were, those were more exploratory like me still finding my footing, you know, of course, cuz I'm in high school, I'm a teenager. Um, but as far as you know, meaty books that were, that were ready or, or semi ready to query, probably<affirmative> about four, I would say mm-hmm<affirmative> no, I, I love that story. I mean, it is typical as you say. Um, although I've asked that question enough times to know like there really is no typical<laugh> yeah, everybody's true stories, a little bit different. Um, but I always admire, you know, the stories of the people who working full-time and raising a family and had a, a day job, you know, in quotes and you know, all these things cuz it's a reminder that yeah, if you are really passionate about something and you really wanna make it happen, you will find the time. Um, and I, as a pet peeve of mine, when someone says like, I really wanna be a writer, but I don't have any time to write. And it's like, well maybe you don't have any time every day. Do you really wanna do it? You'll make the time for it somehow. That's absolutely true. And, and that's a pet peeve of mine too. It especially bothered me when I was doing all those things. I just said I was a single mom and I was working and I was going to school trying to get my bachelor's degree. So time was not something that I had mm-hmm<affirmative> but I still, I still found the time, you know, I still found the, and like you said, it doesn't have to be every day. Um, but I, I feel like in general people, um, find time for the things that they, they really want to do for the most part. Yeah. Yeah. No, you, you, you put a different value on it. I think. Exactly. Yes. Um, alright. And then here we are celebrating the release of, I wanna say your seventh book, is that right? I think that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, congratulations. Thank you. Would you please tell listeners, what is your new book? Those kids from FA Creek about those kids from FA Creek is a story about a very, very small community in Louisiana FA Creek. Um, the community is so small that there is only 12 seventh graders total in the school and they've never had a new student before until one day on a warm November day, a new student arrives and her name is orchid Mason and orchid has moved to fond Creek from Paris. She's from New York, she's traveled the world. And of course the students of fond Creek are absolutely intrigued and taken with her as she tells them stories about her travels and all the places she's been. And also orchid is very kind to everyone and she doesn't have a lot of the preconceptions that a lot of the students have since they've all go grown up together. So the reader kind of gets to see how, uh, or its presence influences this small group of seventh graders. And, you know, even though most of the, the students are very taken by her and charmed by her, of course there are some who are not as equally charm and they kind of vow to take her down. So that's those kids from font Creek. But I, like I said, I read it with my girls and we all really enjoyed it. Um, and one of the things that jumped out at me, I don't know how many chapters into the book I realized like, hold, we're getting points of view from every kid in this class. Um, you know, there's 13 kids total when you include orchid and I'm pretty sure there are point of view cap chapters from all 12 of them with the exception of orchid. Is that true? That is true. Yes. Yeah. And I'm so impressed by that. Um, because I know that, you know, it's difficult enough writing one point of view or two points of view, but to have 12 in one book is really unique and really different, which is a synonym, very unique<laugh> um, so was that the, the plan from the beginning to kind of have all of the different points of view from these different students? No. The plan in the beginning was three points of view and it was going to be Grayson, Dorothy and Janie who, who, who do take up most of the, the space on the page, but it became clear very early on in the drafting process to me that if I really wanna write a story about how orchid and her nemesis, for lack of a better word, Reny how these two girls who are very, very different from each other. If I was going to write a book about how they influence their school community, that I would have to give perspective from everyone within that community, not just those three point of view characters. So it, it became apparent early in the process that I was going to to do that. And I, I, you know, I just racked in my brain for days and weeks trying to figure out how I was going to accomplish it, but it wasn't the plan from the very beginning. No, mm-hmm<affirmative> did you have, uh, a favorite and, or a least favorite to write from? Oh, that's a great question. Um, Jay was, is my favorite to, to write from yes. Um, I think because Janie, um, her, her chapters are very, uh, voicey for, for lack of a mm-hmm<affirmative> a better, a better word, right? No, I can. I loved reading her aloud. Yes. I mean, it's very much, um, and, and Janie is very different from, I am from than I am. So that was fun as well because Janie is a mean girl who doesn't think or know that she's a mean girl. Um, so it was a lot of fun in a way to write from, from her perspective. And I don't know that I have a least it because, uh, you know, I kind of have a rule of thumb that if I'm writing something and I'm not enjoying it, then I need to be writing something else. So I would say that instead of least favorite, I would say most challenging. And that would be Dorothy because Dorothy is very, um, she's kind of a closed book. You, she kind of keeps people at arms length and because she's so, so shy, she doesn't really interact with a lot of people other than, um, Grayson and orchid and she doesn't have siblings at home. So she SP she's very interior and, and the more interior a character is, uh, for me often the, the difficult they are to write. Yeah, no, I feel that entirely I've had characters like that, myself that I feel like I have to go through multiple drafts of the book before I even have any idea what they're thinking. Yeah, exactly. Um, I am just gonna throw out that. I think my, one of my favorite chapters and it was a fairly short little, uh, scene, but it was one of the scenes from slow Lee's point of view. Uh, and he is one of our more minor characters, but I thought it was so sweet the way that we got to see inside of his head and see what a huge impact, uh, some of the things that orchid had been saying to him and around him was having, and I thought it was really emotional and really special. Oh, thank you so much for that because I, I really did have, have a tender spot for slowly and, you know, there's a care, there's a scene. And I don't know if it's exactly the same scene you're talking about, but slowly is his, his nickname for those who are listening, who aren't familiar, his name is Lehigh, but they call him slowly. And there's a scene where he's with, um, his teacher and she kind of explains what an ad verb is because he's asking her as an adverb because orchid has informed him that his nickname is an adverb. And that's also one of my favorite scenes in the book because, um, there was, I feel like, you know, I had one of the things as you know, that that can be difficult with writing is you wanna have subtext, but you don't wanna be so vague that the reader doesn't a pick up on what you're trying to say, but you also don't wanna be so obvious that they feel manipulated, you know, mm-hmm<affirmative>, so it's like trying to find that middle ground. And for slowly I, my hope was, and is that when readers read him, they feel, um, what he feels, you know, I mean, I guess my goal with every character, of course, but the moment when he realizes that, that he's been carrying around this nickname for so long that, um, doesn't completely define him. And he kind of decides that, that he no longer wants it to define him. You know, that was a really important moment for me. So I'm so glad you brought up slowly, cuz I, I did an enjoy writing from his point of view. Yeah, no. And it was that scene that I was thinking of, um, that I remember really profoundly and yeah, it's this, this idea that you just kind of go along with things and I mean, a lot of this book is these kids never really questioning, this is how things are, this is the community we live in. You, you don't ask questions, you don't challenge it. Uh, and then of course orchid comes in and challenges and questions, everything, and really kinda gets the wheels turning. And I thought that that slowly or Lajas response to that was just a really perfect way of encapsulating that, thank you so much for that. Um, so speaking of subjects, you may like within a book, you wanna have subtext, but you kind of have to work in this very narrow line of not being too vague, not being too obvious. How do you find that middle ground? Like, do you have any, oh my gosh. Specific things that you're thinking about when you're writing or like what's your strategy there? Oh gosh, that is such a good question because you know what I teach, um, this is something that I struggle with trying to, to teach because it's kinda one of those intuitive, you know, when you're writing, it's just kind of intuitive. Um, and I don't know if, if, um, you know, what I think it comes down to is not just thinking about the words that are on the page, but also thinking about what's not on the page, you know, like what are you, not just what you're including, but also what you're not including. And one thing that it's kind of related to that question is, you know, I always ask my students, if you take this away, what do you gain? And if you take this away, what do you lose? Hmm. And that's kind of like a question to ask when you're revising or even when you're drafting for that matter. Um, so I think that the danger of, of having too much subtext is that readers don't pick up on those nuances, kinda like what we were talking about earlier, before we started the, uh, the podcast recording, is that the little nuances that, um, you want readers to pick up on, sometimes those might be missed if the reader is too young or if they're not, you know, like reading between the lines. Um, but then it's like, well, if, if I'm too obvious, I don't want, I don't ever want my work to be didactic. You know, that's the big thing. I never want to feel like I'm talking down to readers. I always wanna respect young readers. And I think that, that means sometimes some, some subtexts will be lost on some readers and other readers will pick up on it just fine. But if, if the other option is to be pedantic and kind of talk down and be a little lecture, then I, I err on the side of subtext, which doesn't really answer your question of how to do it. I think it's just, I think a lot when I'm writing about what I'm not putting down on the page, like where's the space for the reader to draw their own conclusions that I feel like it's important for readers to have that, that room, that space between scenes, between sentences, between paragraphs, where they are drawing their own conclusions, because then it, it just really makes them part of the reading and discovery process in a really profound way. So, um, that's something that I keep in mind when I'm drafting and when I'm revising. Yeah. No, and I think that does actually answer my question. I think a lot of writing craft is instinctual and it is something that, you know, you kind of have to, to ask yourself the right questions sometimes. And, and I love that question specifically. What do you, if you take this away, what do you gain and what do you lose? And I'm definitely gonna think about that when I'm editing my book next to me.<laugh> good. Yes. But it's also like with subtext, you know, and like you say, some kids will pick up on it and some won't, um, it's also like the reading experience can be different. Like some kids are gonna be reading this and discussing it in a book club or discussing it in a class. And then, you know, more likely some of that subtext will become more obvious and some kids are just gonna read it for pleasure and maybe not think really deeply about these things. But I think a lot of that is gonna be picked up by our subconscious, uh, if not like an outward, like, oh, this is what she's not saying here. Yes. I mean, that's my hope, you know, my hope is that as long as it, as long as it resonates in some way, as long as, you know, there's something to be taken away from, it, it doesn't have to be everything, but even if it's pieces of something, you know? Yeah, definitely. Um, so talk to me a little bit. So we've got 12 different points of view. Talk to me a bit about character development and voice development. How do you make sure that every one of these characters kind of stands out on their own in a fairly compact, yet full story here? So I think it's different, whether it's, um, kind of a primary character like grace and Dorothy and Janie are kind of the three, I would say primary characters, three primary narrators. And whenever I'm thinking about my primary narrators, I think about, um, who they are, I think about what their fears are, what do they want, um, what are their motivations? How do they see themselves? How do other people see them? I do a lot of character development cuz I'm very character driven in all my work mm-hmm<affirmative> and all my drafting, my whole drafting process is all based on character. So I think a lot about that. And, and I, the more that, the better, you know, your character the much easier, I don't know, easier the right word, but, um, we'll just go with that. The easier they are to write, because you really can see things through their eyes. You can really, uh, walk in their shoes and the, the more, you know, them, the easier it is to write in their voice. So with the primary characters, I do a lot of that character sketching, character development, asking question, thinking about them all the time, um, thinking about how they see the world, all that stuff. Yeah. I also, I also think a lot about, um, who their different identities. I think that's important too. Like who are they at school? Who are they at home? Who are they online, if they're online and how do all those things talk to each other or mm-hmm,<affirmative> contradict each other or so I think that's important as well. So that's what I did for grace and Dorothy and Janie and for the others, because they are kind of, uh, tertiary or secondary characters, you know, like slowly, um, who you mentioned, you know, I don't necessarily need to do all that work for those characters. But I do think of about since I have a compacted, uh, amount of space to speak in their voice and let readers get to know them, I do think about, okay, what is their defining characteristic in this group? Cuz they all have, I mean, the book is very much about labeling people and then people are not just one thing, right? Mm-hmm<affirmative> and we all contain multitudes and, and nobody is just one label. But in this group they each have a label of kind of who they are in their group. So I thought a lot about that. Okay. What are, what is each person as label and how do their behaviors speak to that? And also challenge that. So I thought a lot about that as well. And I thought a lot about how they view themselves and how they view their peers. So kind of like a condensed version, I guess you could say of what I did with the three primary characters<affirmative> and I think when you do that, when you really question your characters and think, think more through character than plot, I think that that's when the voice, um, feels more natural and uh, less cerebral, you know, mm-hmm<affirmative> yeah, yeah. And to kinda piggyback off of that. Cause I hadn't really, um, thought of that specifically, but I, now that you mentioned it, the labeling of the different characters, uh, I can see that really clearly. And one thing that I love about the story is that by the end of the book, many of them, if not all of them have in some way, either thrown off that label entirely or, or they've started to adopt a new label for themselves and you really see that kind of coming across in the various character arcs, which makes me wonder, so you, you have these kind of initial questions that you're asking yourself and things that you're thinking about for the different characters kind of, as you're starting to develop them, how much are you thinking about, uh, character arc and growth? At what point does that kind of work its way into your pro process? Oh, that's, that's there from the very beginning, whenever I'm I'm before I even start writing, whenever I'm, whenever I'm brainstorming and kind of teasing out the story. So because I start everything with character, I, I start on my novels that way I start on my plotting that way. It's a huge part of before I begin like the pre-writing process, because I think about who are my characters at the beginning of this novel and who do I want them to be at the end? And one thing that's important for me is that a common thread in my books is that the characters themselves don't change to appease their peers, you know, or their family. That's very important to me that they don't do that. They, what has to change most of the time is how they feel about themselves and how they view themselves. So I think about like for fond Creek, I think, okay, where does great, who is Grayson at the beginning of this story and who do I want him to be at the end mm-hmm<affirmative> and how, how are these characters and how is the story going to lead him there? You know? So that's that, that plays a huge part in the planning before I start writing, cuz I don't just sit down and write, I'm not a dancer. I do plan, you know, I'm not, I'm not a rigid outliner, but I, I definitely have an idea of how this, the kind of the tent poles, you know, the beginning and the middle and the end are gonna go. Yeah. And that's part of that. No, I love that. And I am so curious because it is a very character driven story. Uh, and I love hearing that you are a plotter. Um, I also am a plotter, but I tend to be, or my books tend to be more plot driven rather than character driven. And so I was actually really curious about that to know plotter pants. So you're a plotter. So how much are you thinking about like, oh, in this scene, this is gonna be a, a, you know, a scene that's gonna focus on internal obstacles and introspection and character growth or are you like, okay, this is the scene where this thing happens and then the introspective part comes out more during the action writing. Does that make sense? It does. That's a great question. And it's kind of both cuz it, it it's like, okay. How do basically I think about, okay, I'm thinking about the tent poles. I'm thinking about where my characters are at the beginning where I want them to be in the middle and where I want them to be at the end. And then I approach each scene almost a as, um, I kind of think of them as arrows and like I have a quiver of arrows and I'm pointing them all toward this bullseye and the bullseye is the end. Right. So I'm thinking about, okay, how is this scene speaking to, um, what I want this book to say about the, these characters and how is this scene, um, feeding into that. In other words, each scene needs to have something to do with reaching those tent poles that I talked about. So I I'm thinking about the character arc, but I'm also thinking about what needs to happen in the scene for that character to be possible. But it's tricky with characters, right? Because it's not, it's not obvious, it's slow. It's the slow, you know, peop characters, don't just slow, sudden change because they went to the football game or whatever, what am I gonna do? What situations are they going, going to be in to, to point on my arrows towards the bullseye. Um, and what does that look like? So it's kind of like a mix of both, I guess, but I never think about like I never approach it. Like, okay, in this scene, I'm gonna focus on do worthy internal arc or in this scene, I'm gonna focus on Grayson's, uh, wanting to be a fashion design. I never think of it that way. I think of what's going to happen next and how are my characters going to be after they get out of the scene? So that's kind of how I do it. And I usually outline like three chapters at a time. So I don't, because I don't wanna be shackled to this outline because you know, as you know, like characters take this unexpected directions, so I'll sit down and I'll think, okay, my first three chapters what's gonna happen. And then I'll sit down and write it always long hand. I'll sit down and write, okay, this is what's happening in these first three chapters. And then I think, okay, now let me look at where my characters are now. What, what needs to happen in the next three chapters? Mm-hmm<affirmative> to bring me to those tent poles. Yeah, no, I love it. I think it's so interesting. You know, cuz I am myself mostly sci-fi fantasy and I know a lot of other sci-fi fantasy authors and we talk about this and how like the idea of writing contemporary and I had one contemporary book out, but it still had a little bit of magic in it. Um, and there's like this intimidation for a lot of fit fantasy authors to do, to write a contemporary story. Cuz the question is like, well how are you gonna have a book that keeps people turning the pages when you can't have explosions or magic<laugh> or you know<laugh> so what is, how do, what are you thinking about, um, as far as like coming up obstacles, coming up with things that happen that are gonna pull your characters through to that, that target at the end. That is such a good question. I think, you know, honestly, sometimes readers don't turn the page. Sometimes readers want the explosions and all that stuff, which is fine. Um, but I think for me it's um, you know, I try, I try to think about it like this and, and this is true with, with sci-fi fantasy and really any story I try to think about, okay, what questions am I creating that can only be answered if the reader keeps reading mm-hmm<affirmative>, you know, mm-hmm,<affirmative>, that's the, that's the main through line there. Like you want the readers, you want readers to be intrigued, but never confused if as long as they're intrigued and they have questions, they'll keep reading and you can do that, you know, in a, in a contemporary novel obviously, cuz the question is like, what's gonna happen now? What is, what is, what is Dorothy gonna do in this situation? What's Janie gonna do? Oh what's their plan for the dance? Mm-hmm<affirmative> what is this? You know, like you could still do that. It's so interesting that you say, you know, would we talk about like kind of the, the genres that we write because for me I have one fantasy out and I know that whenever I, I started out, um, I was intimidated for an opposite reason because I'm like, oh my gosh, I have to build this whole world<laugh> I have to have action scenes fights have to happen.<laugh> and I'm, it's like kind of the opposite of what you're saying. And I it's always greener<laugh> I'm like, how do I do this? How do I write? How do I describe, you know, I don't have to describe what school is because everyone know when school is, but if I'm building a whole world, now I have to like come up with all the rules and it's very intimidating, you know? So, um, I totally get what you're saying except I find sci-fi and fantasy to be way more intimidating than contemporary. But I think it's because, you know, we, we all, of course we can all write across genres obviously, but I think that a lot of us have kind of our, our sweet spot, you know, and at realistic contemporary is definitely I think my sweet spot, but it's just so interesting. How, how writers come at everything from so many different perspectives. Yeah, no, it's true. Um, and I think that we all have, you know, obviously you're drawn to certain things, um, and a lot of times, whatever you love to read is turns out it to be what you also love to write. Um, but I feel like there's always like that one genre that you're like, how do people do that? I'm just so amazed by how their brains must work to formulate these, you know, plots or build these worlds or whatever it is. And that's part of the reason I love talking to other writers. I wanna know their secrets<laugh> yeah, exactly. Um, so, uh, and I, I did wanna go back and just highlight, uh, you've commented on how one of the things that you're thinking about is whether or not your readers are intrigued and what are the questions that still haven't been answered. Uh, and that rings such a bell because when we were reading this of girls had all sorts of theories about orchid and why does she keep running off into the woods? Where does she live? And like, that was such a brilliant, just little detail that you just kinda keep very vague off in the distance. And they were, I mean, that was the definitely one of the things that kept them hooked. Oh good. Yes. That was my goal.<laugh> um, OK. I do have to ask, I believe you are the, not I not, I believe, I know you are the very first Newberry award winning author that we have had on this podcast. I know it was a few years ago, but congratulations. That's amazing. Thank you. I, I will accept congratulations until the end of time. So<laugh> thank so, so authors can say that they have a award that's so cool. Um, so first of all, like what was that even like? Oh my, you know, when I'm asked this, all I could say is surreal because I don't even know how to encapsulate, you know, I'm a writer, we're supposed to have words as writers, but I have no words. It was so surreal. It still is surreal. And you know what? I honestly hope that it always is because I never wanna just be like, oh, shrug, Newberry, you know,<laugh> I want it to, I want it to always be like a magical thing because it completely is. I mean, you know, it's, it's just bizarre in the best way, because you never think ever, you know, when you're, when you're writing a book, you think as long as people read it, even if it's one person who, whose life has changed or, or who's emotionally moved or, um, it's their favorite book. Okay. That that's satisfying, but you never think like, oh, this, this amazing Newberry medal is in my, I mean, nobody, well, I don't think anyway, uh, sits down to write thinking that they're, that this is gonna happen for them. So, and there's of course we can't control it. Right. We write the best books we can and, um, you know, see what happens basically, but it was just so surreal. I can't think of a better word. I really need to think of a better answer to that question. I'm gonna finally have a, an answer and then no, one's gonna be asking me anymore. Yeah, we'll be done. Oh yeah. I won that award. We're past that. No, I mean, I think surreal is a perfectly legitimate word for it. I think that there are some things that you cannot foresee you cannot plan for. And then when it happens, like, yeah, it's, it's, it's okay to feel like it's this a, like, this is a really weird, but amazing thing that happened to me. Yes, absolutely. That's exactly what it feels like. This is weird and, and also wonderful and absolutely life changing. And at the same, at the same time, you know, the other part of me thinks, and this is true that there are, there are great many wonderful, amazing books don't have medals and awards and such attached to them. Um, so you know, it it's it's of course it's a subjective thing, but it's also, um, overwhelming. I, you know, I don't know. I don't even know what I'm saying anymore because it's just so like, it's just wild. It's, it's wild to me that, that a group of people read, you know, hundreds upon hundreds of books and of all those books. It, it seems almost unbelievable if I think about it too much. Yeah. Of all those books, they decided whether they were wrong or right. It depends on who you ask. Right.<laugh> um, they decided that this was the book that was deserving in the Newberry medal. I mean, if I, you know, it's just hard to wrap your head around. Yeah, no, I totally get that. Um, I have to ask, so I know with success, which of course is incredible to like, have such an achievement and like, to be always able to say like my book won this award, but with a lot of times also comes a new sort of pressure that you maybe weren't always, you know, feeling or, or didn't really prepare for. So did you feel that after, after the book won and this was, um, hello universe was the book that won for it, like you've had two or three books since then, right? I've had maybe four. I'm not even sure. About four, four. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So four books since then. So what has it been like writing those books after this huge success? And one of those also was a Newberry award honor, which also is very cool<laugh> yes, yes. Um, you know, I have to say it's kind of a two-part answer. And the first part is I didn't feel pressure per se because for a few reasons, one is I have, I'm incredibly fortunate that I have been with the same imprint, the same editor, um, for every book. So we have a very close relationship and before the Newberry and after the Newberry, and there's a lot of mutual respect and, and, um, admiration on all sides. So I feel like whatever I wanted to write next, I was go, going to be supported and, and cared for and they trusted me. Um, and I also thought, well, um, I'm kind of like one of these people who's like onward to the next thing. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm<affirmative> um, of course I cherished the Newberry and the Newberry honor obviously, but, um, I was also like, what's my next book gonna be? And because I had such a great relationship with my, my, uh, publisher and my editor, I never felt like, um, they were sitting over there like, okay, deliver us another winner. You know, I felt like, you know, I felt like I was free. Yeah. Right. Like, okay, what's gonna next. I never got that sense from them. And I felt like I could still write the stories that were in my heart, which is what I wanna do. Mm-hmm<affirmative> so that's, that's one part of it. Another part is that I'm always working on something at any time. So, so when hello universe, when the Newbury medal, I already had a new book that was coming out, uh, you know, within, within weeks of the announcement, it, um, oh, wow. Another book came out and I was already working on the next book. So I'm always one of the great things about surviving the publishing world, um, which is difficult to do, but, but fortunately I've been able to do it is always be working on your next thing because, um, it kind of just keeps the machine going. You know, machine's not a good word, but the, a creative juices, you know, I'm always working on something. Yeah. Um, because writing is kind of like breathing for me. So even if I never won another award and Harper Collins said, we're not publishing another word, I would still write the same books. So that that's one half of it. However, the other half of it is not necessarily outside pressure, but, but the fact that, um, and I like that you talk about this on your podcast, actually the sense of imposter syndrome, I think mm-hmm,<affirmative> um, I think that there's an assumption and, and I think I had this assumption before I got published, like, oh, once I get published, then that will be some good validation. And then I'll know, oh, you're a good writer, but then you get published and you're like, well, but there's all these other things like that, all these other measurements, you know what I mean? And then you, you get something like the Newberry medal, which, which is like the highest honor at children's author can receive. Even people think, um, that, oh, well, if you win the Newberry medal, then you must be feeling real confident about everything you write, you know, but that's certainly not true, you know, because there's still imposter syndrome. There's still that that's always a thing. So I, it's not really outside pressure, but it's more internal pressure and kind of like figuring out how to navigate that self doubt. And I think it's so important that we as writers talk about it more mm-hmm,<affirmative> talk about how success does not make self doubt or imposter syndrome or, um, self criticism. It doesn't make any of that go away because there's always someone else you can compare yourself to compare and despair, right? Like there's always a more successful person. There's always a more successful book. There's always a book you're gonna read. Even if you won a new Berry medal or what a you want and think, you know, I will never be as good a writer as this person. Mm-hmm<affirmative>. And so pressure from that angle still exists. Yeah. No, I'm really glad to hear you talk about that. Cuz I, it does come up a fair amount. Um, just like the, that we all, we all have doubts and sometimes I wonder if aspiring writers who hear us talking about this really believe it<laugh>, they're like, you know, but you're, you're multiple award winning or you're multiple best selling or, you know, you've had movies made out of your books or whatever it is. And I, I think that from the outside looking in, it can be like, no, you've made it like you don't, you clearly, don't still struggle with self-doubt and imposter syndrome, but it's like, no, we do. Every new book is its own scary, new journey that you have to Wade through. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, and I remember, you know, I told a story me a lot, but I remember when I was revising, we dream of space, which won the, the new very honor last year, I remember sitting at my kitchen table, revising it and just crying because I thought, you know, this is the most boring book I've ever read and or written, you know? And I just like every book, I feel that way at some point, like this book is so boring. I thought, you know, I was like, no, one's gonna care about these characters the way I do. I don't know what this is. Um, and then you send it forth into the world, um, and see what happens, but it never goes away because, you know, even, even now, like my, my books are very character driven and very, and a lot of times they're very interior. There's not big explosions and, and there's not big fight scenes. Um, and even now there's parts of me that, that are like, God, maybe I should be writing more exciting, like books with card chasing is, although I don't know how I'd do car chases, cuz my characters should, well that can't really drive there's truck. Just doesn't sound.<laugh> not that it can't be done. I, I, you know, commend someone to take on the challenge, but yeah, but you know, I think, I think we all do that. You know, we all are like, you know, it's, it's all there, but I think, I think the key is to work toward it. Not away from it, you know, if you have self-doubt um, then like when I wrote my fantasy, I had tons of self-doubt like I'm writing a fantasy of world building. So then I had to go out and like learn how to do that. And from people who knew what they were talking about. So you know, it, it can be an asset if you, if you it to motivate you to evolve as a writer. Yeah. Yeah. All right. My last question, before we move onto the bonus round, if someone is listening to this and one of their big ambitious writer dreams is that they wanna have one of those shiny stickers from the Newberry award or whatever award on their future book. What advice would you give them? Or what would you say to them? Oh, what would I say? You know what I would say? I would say all you can ever do is write the best book. You can, the book of your heart, the book you are meant to write because you cannot control things like awards and, and accolades. All you can do is write the best book you can because the truth of the matter is that many wonderful books have shiny stickers and our best sellers, but also many wonderful books do not. So the focus should be writing the absolute best book you can. And a book that, that feeds your soul in some kind of way. Yeah. All right. Are you ready for our bonus round? I am cake or pie cake music or silence music, sunny beach or snowy mountains. At this point, I'm gonna take sunny beach, fashion design, or duck hunting, FA fashion design.<laugh>. What is the top place on your travel wish list? I would like to visit the Bronte parsonage, uh, the home of the Bronte sisters. Ooh, that's a good one. Yes. Can you describe a typical writing day? A typical writing day? Usually it's me in my notebook. It's either before noon or after 5:00 PM. And uh, it's me with my, my notebook and my pen either snuggled in bed or snuggled in my big comfy chair. What is one small thing that brings you a lot of joy coffee?<affirmative> what book makes you happy? Oh boy. Um, I'd say when you reach me, it's my favorite book. Mm. Also award winner. Isn't it? Yes. Yes. It won the Newberry medal. I can't, I can't remember what year, but yes, yes. Yeah, no, that was a good book. Yeah. It's very good. What are you working on next? I am working on, so I have maybe, maybe Marisol rainy my book for younger readers that I also illustrated. And right now we're working on the next book. Um, and it's called Shirley Shirley, S U R E L Y. Marisol rainy. So I'm working on finalizing the illustrations for that and it comes out in August. Nice. Lastly, where can people find you I'm online@erinintrada.com and I am on social media at Erin. Intrada awesome. Erin, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having me. It was a lot of fun. Definitely check out those kids from FA Creek. It is available now of course, we encourage you to support your local independent bookstore, but if you don't have a local indie, you can check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marisa Meyer. Next week, I will be talking with debut author, Emily J. Taylor, about Hawaii fantasy hotel, Magna. If you're enjoying these conversations, please subscribe and follow us on Instagram at Marisa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy, stay cozy and whatever life throws at you today. I hope that now you're feeling a little bit how happier.