The Happy Writer with Marissa Meyer
Luscious Settings and Romantic Tension in YA Fantasy with Emily J. Taylor - Hotel Magnifique
Marissa chats with Emily J. Taylor about her debut YA fantasy - HOTEL MAGNIFIQUE - as well as writing a "setting-first" book by treating your setting as a character, with its own backstory and personality; using a variety of sources (many unexpected) to inspire unique setting details; digging deeper into your worldbuilding and magic system with every round of revisions; and constantly asking yourself what else you can add that will surprise your readers. We also discuss using your characters' secrets to build romantic tension, and how it's important that your love interests see each other as equals, even when they are on different levels of the social hierarchy; and taking a closer look at your characters' motivations when your story feels like it's gone off-course. Plus, the bonus round uncovers a simple and fun technique for writing dialogue and banter that Marissa will definitely be trying out.
The Happy Writer at Bookshop.orgPurchasing your books through our webstore at Bookshop.org supports independent bookstores.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa chats with Emily J. Taylor about her debut YA fantasy - HOTEL MAGNIFIQUE - as well as writing a "setting-first" book by treating your setting as a character, with its own backstory and personality; using a variety of sources (many unexpected) to inspire unique setting details; digging deeper into your worldbuilding and magic system with every round of revisions; and constantly asking yourself what else you can add that will surprise your readers. We also discuss using your characters' secrets to build romantic tension, and how it's important that your love interests see each other as equals, even when they are on different levels of the social hierarchy; and taking a closer look at your characters' motivations when your story feels like it's gone off-course. Plus, the bonus round uncovers a simple and fun technique for writing dialogue and banter that Marissa will definitely be trying out.
The Happy Writer at Bookshop.orgPurchasing your books through our webstore at Bookshop.org supports independent bookstores.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Hello, and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I am your host, Mari Meyer. Thank you for joining me. One thing, making me happy this week. Can you believe it? We just had our two year anniversary for this podcast. We started in March of 2020, of course, right after the pandemic hit. And here we are two years later, still going strong. Uh don't know what I really expected when I had this loopy idea that I was gonna do a weekly podcast. Um, I don't know if I really thought it would last this long and we would still be going strong and, and having so many amazing authors, but it has brought me a ton of joy the last two years. And I'm so happy that, you know, even while we you've been in lockdown and the world has been so bizarre lately that I do get to share some of my time with you. So thank you for continuing to be listeners and for, uh, telling people and spreading the word about the podcast. I really get a lot of joy from it, and I hope that you guys are still finding it inspiring and informational and joyful cuz that's what we're about. Uh, in celebration of the two year anniversary, we are of course hosting a special giveaway cuz that's what we do. Uh, and this month, all this month you can enter to win a query critique. Um, that qu those query critiques will be done by me, myself and also Joanne levy, our social media director, who is also an author and one winner will even win a query critique from my agent, Jill Grinberg. So, uh, check that out. You can learn and all the information for how you can enter your query to possibly be one of our winners, uh, on our Instagram page at happy writer podcast. So good luck. And I, I look forward to seeing what stories you guys have been working on lately. And of course I am super happy to be talking to today's. She was born and raised in California, but currently works as a creative director in Minneapolis, her debut, young adult fantasy novel hotel mug Fe, which is such such a fun title to say comes out tomorrow on April 5th, please welcome Emily J. Taylor.
Speaker 2:Hello.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome. Your debut book is about to come out. How are you feeling?
Speaker 2:You know? Um, I feel, I feel good. I feel pretty good.
Speaker 1:Good. Has it been a wild these past few months or do you feel like no, it's all kind of gone how I expected it to go?
Speaker 2:Um, definitely more the former, um, I don't actually, I dunno what I expected. This is, it's funny going through this whole all for the first time, I'm just trying to enjoy it, you know, cuz it's not gonna happen again. The first
Speaker 1:Book.
Speaker 2:So every
Speaker 1:Last, have you done anything special to celebrate or do you have any plans in place that you're gonna?
Speaker 2:Um, not really. I've heard that sometimes authors get the SADS after a book releases. So I, I, I booked a trip. Um, I'm my family. I'm actually, I've never been to Disney world, but my family has to go for the first time ever. The beginning of may.
Speaker 1:That's incredible. I was just in world. Ah
Speaker 2:Fun.
Speaker 1:Do you have kids?
Speaker 2:I have two little kids. Yeah, but one the little, little, little one is um, not quite two, so she's not going. He's gonna stay.
Speaker 1:Okay. Okay. You know, I'm glad to hear you say that. I always question the pupil who bring babies and toddlers and I'm like, they don't, this is not a place for babies. There's so much it's hot. And like they need to be, have a little bit of stamina I feel before really taken all that is
Speaker 2:I think that's
Speaker 1:Well, that is so awesome. Um, I, I really enjoyed Epcot. I wish I could have spent like three days.
Speaker 2:Oh, interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean I love like all things Disney. I'm such a Disney fan. Uh, but, but Epcot was particularly special.
Speaker 2:That's good to know. Yeah. I haven't, I haven't, I'm trying not to actually look too much into what we're gonna do there. Yeah. Uh, that's
Speaker 1:Funny. I historically I am such a vacation over planner. Um, and then this, for this trip, we had 14 people going. We brought like all the grandparents and the nephew nephews and my brother came in, like the whole family was there and I was kind of the cruise director of the vacation. Oh, like, I am not gonna over plan. Like I picked these of the parks we're going to on these days and everyone else, like it's up to you, what you wanna do. Uh, and, but then when we were there, I kind of regretted not doing more research and not doing my usual, like schedule everything. There was a number of times when I was like, I wish I had a little bit more information to go off of here.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 1:That's me being super type a,
Speaker 2:I totally someone has someone just told me earlier this today, um, that I should book dinner reservations.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:My, I might,
Speaker 1:I recommend definitely book some recipe reservations. Um, that's one of the hardest things I think is figuring out where to eat, cuz everything is always crowded.
Speaker 2:It
Speaker 1:You're gonna have such a great time. I'm so happy for you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Before we get into talking about books and writing and hotel Magna, uh, I have a really strange question to start with. Sure. So little known fact, my legal last name is also Taylor. Uh, Meyer is my maiden name. Okay. And one of my daughters, her full name is Delaney. Emily, Jean Taylor. And I have to know, is the J in your name stand for Jean?
Speaker 2:It is. It is not. Oh, Good. Thanks for joy. So, so I
Speaker 1:Love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay. Well I'll accept joy, but I thought wouldn't that be bizarre for taking Now that we got that outta the way Emily, I would love to start by hearing author origin story. How did you know you wanted to be a writer and how did you get to hear today, your debut novel about hit shelves?
Speaker 2:Sure. You know, it's interesting. I actually never wanted to be a writer. I, uh, I, because I never thought I could. It was interesting. I, so I was more, I wasn't, I wanted to be an art major in college and I also didn't have a lot of money and my mother was a single mother and I needed a job that I was worried about being able to pay for rent and all that fun stuff. So I found this path into this, this weird career of working as an art director, um, for design and ad agencies. And, um, I did that for a number of years. And for those of you who aren't familiar in art director, like I come up with, um, like fun branding and, um, kind of like building worlds around different brands and for different companies. So, Hmm. It definitely carried over. I started writing books for sure. Um, but yeah, I didn't start writing or wanting to write until I was in my early thirties and I had just had a baby and I remember feeling, um, just kind of burnt out with work and with like working all day and then coming home and also having this insane life Take care of kids. And I remember feeling like I was losing a little bit of who I was and feeling kind of slightly invisible. Um, and I don't know it's interesting was it was definitely, I maybe I was just coming to terms with being a new mother. Um, but I definitely, it took a while to get used to, and I remember, um, talking to a friend about it and my friend was like, Emily, I think you need a, What I, what I probably needed was a therapist
Speaker 1:Therapist.
Speaker 2:And it, and I was always a voracious reader. Like I read everything. Um, and at that time I think it was the middle of October and in 2015, I remember the date. Exactly. And I, um, heard about national novel writing month. Hmm. So I did that. Um, I started on November 1st. So November 1st, 2015 was the, the origin of when I became a writer. So I did national novel writing month and I loved it. Um, and was, it was like bullous and I have no idea what I wrote To this. Say
Speaker 1:It wasn't hotel Magna feet. It was,
Speaker 2:It was not, it was not. Um, but it was, it was, I remember it had, I vaguely remember it had magic and there was kissing and
Speaker 1:Important stuff. You got the important stuff. Of course,
Speaker 2:Of course. But yeah, I, I loved it. Like I fell in love with writing and it was interesting. It just gave me it, it let me kind of push into this realm of like who I was, um, when I wasn't getting that from work. And, um, and just the stress of being a new mom. So I don't know, you don't have any time being a mother, but I, I definitely recommend like carving out if you can just like an hour for yourself.
Speaker 1:Yes. No, it's so important for, I mean, for any parent really to, you know, have something that's for you, um, you can't, you can't be mom or dad 24 7, like you need have a break once in a while.
Speaker 2:Totally.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Uh, okay. So you do nano and you wrote something with magic and kissing something
Speaker 2:With,
Speaker 1:It was seven years ago. At what point did, did hotel Magee come into the picture?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I, um, I kept writing and I think I, I just fell in love with it. I found time to do it every day. And I remember I was taking, I started take classes at, I live in the twin cities and we have this amazing institution here called the loft literary center and they offer kind of evening classes for, um, people that can't go to school full time. So you could take a class for a short period of time and then take another class and spring. Um, it was wonderful and there's a great community built around it. So I signed up for some classes there and I remember I signed up from, it was called how to write a mystery novel in three months and I needed, um, a book to work on, obviously, cuz you're gonna write a whole new novel in three, um, which didn't happen by the way, spoiler alert. Um, but
Speaker 1:I money back from this school.
Speaker 2:I know. Right. Um, but I, uh, I remember I treated, I treated it kind of like a work assignment where I came up with a bunch of ideas. I knew that I, I already had, I had been working on a book before that, that had a sister relationship. So I knew I wanted to do something with that. I knew that I, um, wanted to write something where I could kind of flex my skills working as an art director. So I love personally just for me, I, I am so intrigued and fascinated by kind of like setting first
Speaker 1:Books,
Speaker 2:Um, or books that kind of, you get lost in these amazing settings. Obviously you can tell when you read.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that, that is very appropriate to this book. I
Speaker 2:Know. Um, so I, I, and I knew I wanted to write about magic. That was in something very magical. Um, and I remember getting ready for a work trip and the actual origin of the book I was scrolling through Pinterest and I saw this image of this really beautiful, strange building that kind of looked a little, it looked art Nevo, um, and it was kind of stuffed into the, it looked like it was built in the alley between two other buildings. And um, I remember getting the, I thinking like, oh, it, it doesn't fit at all. It, it must have just appeared there. I
Speaker 1:Think I saw this on your I page.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay. I I've definitely talked about it. Yeah. Yeah. It was a I'm I rarely have light bulb moments. I usually have to work for my ideas, but that was definitely a light bulb moment where I was like, oh my gosh, this is such a cool idea. And I remember jumping up, running a crossed the place that I worked at the time and, and pitching the, I like just a, the idea of a traveling hotel where you wake up every morning in a different place to a coworker and he put his head in his hands and he looks at me and goes, Emily, you have to write that. And yeah. And it lit, it lit a fire for sure. So
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. Let's jump into this setting because sure. It's so atmospheric. I mean, it is one of those books that like every page is just full of magic and enchantments, and you don't know when she opens a door like, uh, the reader and the character, we don't know what she's gonna find there. Everything is constantly changing and it's just the beautiful, wonderful magic details, uh, throughout this whole hotel. So talk to me about like brainstorming or daydreaming or how, how did you come up with the hotel and like all of just those, those wonderful little details.
Speaker 2:Sure. I mean so many different places and, and ways. Um, it's interesting. Like, I, I am definitely like a visual person. I think I love imagery. So obviously I kind of, I have a Pinterest board.
Speaker 1:I, I had a feeling you might have a Pinterest board. I wanna see your Pinterest board. I'm gonna go look it up.
Speaker 2:It's a prolific Pinterest board. I will give props to whoever can scroll to the end. Um, but yeah, like I, I definitely use Pinterest just to spark ideas. Um, but I always love twist. I love twisting ordinary things. I'm kind of fascinated by like for the hotel itself for a while. I kind of fell on this rabbit hole of like things that were bigger on the inside than they were on the outside, like the tar
Speaker 1:And
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, um, but I mean, it's interesting cuz it's, it's comped to people say it's like a bell pop hotel, but I, I definitely researched that time period, but I love to pull references. I, I don't know. I love to pull references from different places, so it doesn't feel so specific to one period of history. So this is like, I remember watching music videos to get inspiration. Um, Pinterest, I love fashion. I'm hugely inspired by fashion. So there's definitely that, um, trying to think of what else I've fell down. A lot of research, rabbit holes, um, like Wikipedia holes. I remember, I remember at one point looking up, um, like reading about 18th century French magician tricks and that was, that definitely inspired the magic system along with video games.
Speaker 1:That's just like a little bit of everything,
Speaker 2:A little bit of everything. Yeah. Yeah. But definitely kind of condensing it. So it all fits underneath the umbrella of that. Like the big idea of the traveling hotel.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I don't think I've ever heard anyone, um, say music videos before, but I love that and I, I can see cuz obviously a lot of music artists is almost like this. I don't know this attempting to one up other artists sometimes with like the weirdness, the bizarreness, the, the flash, the, you know, PO and circumstance. And so in some music videos are just so cool and creative and different and I could totally see how that would inspire, you know, a really great fantasy set thing.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Hmm. Interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I realized as you were talking that I forgot to ask what's arguably the most important question. I was just so excited to like jump right into craft, talk with you. Um, so let's pause for a second for people who aren't familiar with your book, would you please tell them what is a hotel me about?
Speaker 2:Of course. Um, so I pitch it as a legendary traveling hotel where you wake up every morning in a different location across this fantastical world. And two sisters take jobs there only to realize two eight that their contracts are unbreakable and the hotel is hiding some pretty deep dark secrets.
Speaker 1:Hmm. Yes. And it's really beautiful writing and yeah, a really, really fun setting. Um, you know, very, I'm just gonna add that. It's very like, like, like, uh, the night circus or Caral, or like for readers who just love that sort of world, um, highly recommend it's totally like right in that alley.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, I saw, how do I wanna go there yet? No, I wanna go back to, uh, more on this setting. It, it really walks this line between being whimsical and fantastical. And of course the hotel has this reputation. People want to go to this hotel and you can understand why people are drawn to it so much just for, you know, the, the fantasy aspect. And yet when these two sisters get there and they're employed by the hotel, it doesn't take long for things to start taking kind of a creepy turn. And this, a lot of it is kind of darker and mysterious and sinister and it really walks that very fine line. Um, how did you go about capturing that, that feel of whimsy and creepiness at the same time?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's an interesting question. Um, I would say that I went too far and I had to pull it back in revision.
Speaker 1:Ooh. Which direction did you go far into?
Speaker 2:I was, it was a little, little bit too horrific. Like I, I
Speaker 1:Really, oh, how interesting
Speaker 2:I, um, I definitely love, so I actually growing, growing up, I was obsessed with Gothic suspense novels and I, I read, um, kind of like Daphne de Maier, but there's also a, a bunch of different writers love that like unsettling house vibe. Um, yeah. And I still love that vibe, uh, and I wanted it to have that, um, in a sense, but then also kind of play with that, where it was, where it was you almost did when you're going into the hotel, the magic in the whimsy felt so over the top that when you got the darkness, um, it was a little bit shocking.
Speaker 1:Mm.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, it's interesting. I don't know. I dunno how to answer that question.
Speaker 1:Well, no, I mean, I think your, your initial reaction that you kind of in an early draft really leaned into the horror aspect. Um, and then when you, you get into revisions, like, were you intentionally like, well, let's maybe not make this quite so dark, you know, quite so terrible or was it more like we're gonna keep that, but also add in a little bit more magic and a little bit more fun and frivol
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say, um, revisions for me were really dialing into the magic system and the world building. And I think once I had figured that out, everything kind of made a little bit more sense and I was able to figure out what I needed to push and pull and make everything feel cohesive. But I definitely, I, I would say that revisions also were adding where I, I was pulling back a little bit on the, on the darkness, but then just adding a little bit more like color and whimsy, um, and magic, I think every single pass I tried to add something that would, I'm like, how can I surprise the person who's gonna read this again for like the hundredth time?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think that's excellent advice cuz I, I know for me, you know, in some of my fantasies that have, you know, a lot more magic involved, it's like you can't your brain can't hold everything at once. Like I, I guess there probably are writers who, you know, just really take their time and try to infiltrate that first draft with as much of these details as they can. But for me, I, I feel like my process is a lot more on what you are describing where like, okay, in this past we've got some magic in this next draft I'm gonna really try to, to, you know, add in a little bit more and in this draft we're gonna try to, okay, what can I add in this chapter? What can I put in this scene? And like just dig deeper and deeper with every pass.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What advice would you give to some who loves these types of novels, you know, wants, is trying to create a setting first story, what would you, what would you recommend that they do?
Speaker 2:Oh, um, I would say that, um, I don't know, writers have a tendency to go. I would say maybe pause for a moment before you start your story and brainstorm the premise and see if you can have the premise be something that encapsulates a setting. Um, and it doesn't necessarily have to be the, I'm not talking about the plot or the characters, but um, just the like kind of the big idea for your story, what you'd pitch it as if you're gonna tell somebody what it's about. Um, and it doesn't have to be like, you can write, I mean, there are so many not setting first stories that I love. So I don't wanna say that this is the only way
Speaker 1:To, of course. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I think, um, I think that if you pause for a moment there and like really think about, um, think about like cool books that you've read that have interesting settings and how they twist that setting to be something interesting. Um, see if you could do that to your own, like maybe pick, I don't know, I'm, I'm super fascinated just personally with the idea of like these mundane places and like twist on the I'm like, oh, what could you do at a bus station? Or what could you do? What could a hotel room?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's funny. Cause as, as you were talking, I was kinda thinking to myself, like what exactly makes a book, a setting first book. Cause a lot of times we talk, you know, writers, like I'm a plot driven writer, I'm a character driven writer. It's more unusual to hear setting driven stories. And it's kind of like, you know, a lot of stories, of course we do world building and it's important to, you know, have setting that comes to life regardless of what you're writing. But it's like in a book like this, this story could only take place in hotel, Magna Fe it's it, it holds everything together. Right?
Speaker 2:It does.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's interesting. I also, um, just to add to what I was talking about, but I view setting also as a character.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, and I think that's, it's like it setting has to have a backstory. Um, it has to have almost a personality. So it'd be interesting if someone, if, if you're a new writer thinking about starting like creating a more interesting setting, maybe think about setting as a character.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No, that is interesting. I feel like in the last few episodes we've had a lot of discussion about character arc. Um, and, and now I'm trying to like, think about your book. Like what is the, the character arc for the hotel? Like I feel like it's there.
Speaker 2:That's interesting. I have never thought about that. I never
Speaker 1:Have either. Let's let's piece it out. Let's do our plot beats, see a whole,
Speaker 2:A whole new way of thinking about writing. Right. Another one.
Speaker 1:That's funny. But no. So, um, if, if the hotel itself is a character, in your opinion, is it a hero or is it an antagonist?
Speaker 2:Oh, Hmm. I mean, I mean, I wanna say antagonist,
Speaker 1:I kinda would lean toward, I mean I can totally see both, but I would kinda lean toward antagonist as well, I think. Okay. Okay. Um, let's talk about romance. So there's, um, a bit of, uh, an enemies to lovers romance, which everybody listening knows is like my favorite thing in the world. Uh, so for you, when you were coming up with this story and these characters, um, and particularly the, the tension that would be, you know, just like, like ridiculous between the two of them, what were you thinking? How did you go about crafting them?
Speaker 2:Um, I, when I came up with the idea, I remember 10 minutes later coming up with the character of bell. Um, and he's the love interest. Should I say that? I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, no. I think that's fair to say. I think you don't have to get that far into the book to know, like there is something mater
Speaker 2:There's something I know pretty early on. Um, and I, I, there's definitely a, um, I remember I wanted to play with there's, there's a hierarchy between them that I, I won't give away cuz of spoilers, but I wanted them always to feel like equals and writing them like that definitely helped understand their characters. And um, yeah, it's interesting. Like, I, I, I feel like it's just writing, writing dialogue between two characters and you learn who they are and how they play off of each other. And right when I put them together and started writing their banter, um, their tension, their romantic tension and, and just them as characters kind of came alive in a way that I don't think I would've been able to do if I just was writing on a piece of paper, a paragraph about how am to make them interesting together.
Speaker 1:Mm.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like I definitely
Speaker 1:Is pretty much my favorite thing about enemies to lovers.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I, I love writing banter, sexual tension.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Oh, I mean, what some, obviously I know lots OFS, like myself, love enemies to lovers. It's easily like hands down one of the most beloved tropes, but I know that it is not an easy trope to get. Right. Um, it's, it's kind of a challenging trope. Do you, do you agree with that or did it come really naturally to you?
Speaker 2:Um, I, yeah, I don't know. It's interesting. I don't know if I would call them true enemies to lovers. It's more like reluctant, very reluctant allies.
Speaker 1:OK. Fair enough.
Speaker 2:They're very, very, very reluctant allies to lovers, but, um, yeah, but I, I feel like you need to start with their back stories and who they are and how that clashes with, with each other, but then also it's just, um, yeah, I dunno. That's an interesting question.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I, I just know, like for me, um, and I hear story a ton of enemies to lovers, uh, back pre publication. Uh, and I've only had one, uh, published book with an enemies to lovers storyline, but it's like either you're trying so hard to keep them apart that you almost have to turn one into a jerk sometimes, which is like, that's not what you, you don't want someone to be a jerk on the other side. Like if there's not something keeping apart that it's really hard to keep them apart sometimes like our inclination is like, but they clearly are into each other. So why are we not kissing already?
Speaker 2:I know, I know for this, I totally agree with you on that. It's difficult. Um, I think for this type of book though, um, it was definitely the revelations and kind of the plot itself. And as we move further, there is, he's so integral to, um, the mystery and what, what is actually happening, um, that I don't wanna spoil.
Speaker 1:Right. No,
Speaker 2:I think like that, that layer putting on that layer definitely helped figure out that re the relationship. So, um, yeah. I, I don't know if I would've, if they would've had the same relationship, if it wasn't for the actual plot of the book and, and the mystery.
Speaker 1:Right? No. And obviously we've got a lot of secrets being withheld, which it's hard to trust someone when they're always keeping secrets from you. So no, it works. It works really well. And I gotta say, there's a scene again, we won't spoil anything, but there's a scene where they are literally trapped on a bed together. It's like super steamy. Um, and you at like somehow manages to say, stay re relatively PG, PG 13. Like it's not, you know, it's a tame romance, but like so hot at the same time.
Speaker 2:Love, I'm just giggling because I love that you called out that. So
Speaker 1:It's such a good scene. All right. Well, jumping from romance to villains because there's, uh, a handful of antagonists throughout the book, there are, Some of them are truly this. What, how do you, how do you go about thinking about your villains? What are you thinking about when you're creating a villain? What's your, what's your technique there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting. Um, when I started writing this, I didn't know there were a few of them, but I didn't know that they would be as villainous as they were
Speaker 1:There we go leaning into the horror aspect again.
Speaker 2:I know, I know where I, I, um, there was a draft. I remember where there was, there were two of them actually that weren't like, they I'm like, these are, these are her friends and then, and they ended up being, not friends. Um, so I, yeah, and it's also, I should say too, that I definitely pants this book when I, when I wrote it the first time. Um, so a lot of happened in revision and like going back over and over and over again, figuring out, um, motivation. Um, but I think that because of that, it kind of, it gave me these characters where you were, you were unsure about what their motivations were until I revealed them. And I, I, I like that about books. Um, yeah, it was interesting. And also with, I don't wanna go into spoiler, but with like the main, the main villain I think coming up with, um, like a relatable backstory and something that feels, um, connected to the protagonist, but not kind of where they can almost be like a foil for the protagonist was I always thought through that as I was creating them.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, no, I, that's a great point. Cause I mean, a lot of times you are thinking, you know, motivation or like, you know, bad story, what made this villain the way that they are. Um, but you're right. Like there needs to be some glue between them and the protagonist also, um, which I think is every bit is important to the, kind of the creation of that villain. Like why, why are these two characters gonna butt heads? Why does, why is it so important for the protagonist to win against them?
Speaker 2:Yeah. And how do, what, how, how does what they want play into what the protagonist goals are?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Tension,
Speaker 2:Tension. And then I also love making over the top characters, I should say writing. They are
Speaker 1:So over the top. Oh,
Speaker 2:Extra.
Speaker 1:Did you have a favorite to write?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh. Um, I love, I love YUSA whenever I,
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Which is, and she's I, no, I don't wanna spoil it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I always saw her as kind my villainist till the Swinton.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I wanna go back. So you mentioned that you paned the book the first time, uh, which I would not have expected at all. Um, largely because I've seen your Instagram page and I've seen your big board of plotting,
Speaker 2:I know
Speaker 1:Index cards. So if that, like, have you changed, like you've pants this, and now you're like, I'm never doing that again. The next book is definitely getting outlined or was that from more of a, like a revision round?
Speaker 2:So the big board was for the book I'm working on now because I'm like, I cannot do the same process.
Speaker 1:We've learned. We learned something there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's interesting. I feel like, um, people ask me what my process is and I say, I honestly have no idea. I don't know this, um, hotel Manique came about, um, in, I feel like it was, I wrote the first draft in very fast, like a couple of months. Um, and I couldn't, it was like, I couldn't type fast enough. I was so in love with the story. And, um, now that I have deadlines and stuff, it feels different and I have to have something to work towards. So, but I, um, I definitely, yeah, for my process with this next book I have, I don't know, I'm looking at my wall right now. You can't see me at all, but I, I have a wall with kind of a, like a loose plot and all these things pinned up, but then I also pin up kind of cool little scraps of inspiration and stuff, just so I have like a, a visual to spin, spin around and look at in my chair when I'm stuck.
Speaker 1:So are you, I, I love, I, I like nerd out about this sort of thing. I love seeing writers, plotting boards. I love it. Like some of them have like color coordinated things and like, I just get such a kick out of all that. Um, so for you, you know, you've got this board and it's got, and inspiration and scenes or chapters or whatever it is. Um, when you, when the story starts to go off track, do you like, just take everything down and be like, okay, time to redo this? Or like, what do you do?
Speaker 2:Oh, gosh, panic. No, um, I, yeah, for me, it's usually like a, a feeling. Um, and I go back to the, I go back to the, the point where I, I felt like it was going good and I try and figure out like what, what it is. And it's usually motivation. And, um, I don't know, or like something is missing or it's, it's, I'm not quite explaining something well enough, but I don't, um, with the board, it's more of an initial kind of overview of how I'm thinking of the plot and then I'll put it and then I'll, I'll look at the board and type it all up on my computer. So I, I, I stick most sleep to a computer in Scrivener.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, I'm the same. I, I usually have index cards or like a, a notebook. And then at some point it all has to get transferred in cuz yeah, my brain lives on my laptop.
Speaker 2:Oh totally. But you know, books are just, they're so big and there's so much information and it's, um, like it, it totally helps me to see it visually for
Speaker 1:Sure. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm a, I agree. I usually start with index cards, um, or sheets of paper that I've like, you know, cut apart or whatever. Um, I find it so helpful just to be able to, to like quickly rearrange things. Like, you know, what if happen here? What if I move this to here? Just kind of see at a glance how that would change things.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. And I like that you mentioned motivation too. Cause I also feel like whenever things go off track, it is amazing how often you can bring it back to character motivation. And like, for me, a lot of times it's because I am trying to force the character to do some that they wouldn't actually do. And that, that I feel like I get hung up on that all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's interesting. I wonder if that's why the first draft of just happened so quickly cuz I didn't plan out anything. They were just doing whatever they wanted to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And how much would you say it changed? Like how, what percentage of that, what original draft do you think is still in the final book?
Speaker 2:Um, so fascinating enough that the epilogue maybe a paragraph or two has tweaked, but that is still almost exactly like the first draft. Um,
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I, I would say all of, a lot of it is, was there, it has just gotten richer and um, and it makes way more sense than it did.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Filled in some of the plot holes,
Speaker 2:Plot holes. Like I, I have deeper into world building character RX, all of that, all of that, all that necessary stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. I've got one last question before we move on our bonus round, uh, in the book we've got the, how do you pronou Sumir how you say it?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I say
Speaker 1:The sum there, um, who has an enchanted ink well, um, and can use it to, you know, literally write out enchantments, um, which kinda, you know, does stuff. I don't wanna tell it, say what it does, but it does stuff. Um, and as I was thinking, I could not help feeling like it's kind of like we writers all have our ancient ink. Well, and that makes us the masters of our stories and of our world, blah, blah, blah. Um, so on that note, do you think that writers are all secretly villains?
Speaker 2:Um, I feel like, yes, no, I'm just,
Speaker 1:I know. Right.
Speaker 2:Um, I feel like I have never met a group of more compassionate people that I have when I, um, began writing and the community is amazing. So no, I'm totally serious. It's interesting. But I will say though that I feel like writers, aren't afraid to go there. Um, and talk about really interesting deep, disturbing things. And I love that about some of the people that I've met. So, um, I would say that they're not villains, but they're definitely more willing to embrace the villain. The villainy that exists everywhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it's cuz we can be villains in the books that we write and that be like really nice people in real life. We could put this part of ourselves in the pages.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Totally.
Speaker 1:All right. Are you ready for our bonus round?
Speaker 2:Let's do it.
Speaker 1:All right. Tea or coffee,
Speaker 2:Coffee
Speaker 1:Writing in the morning or writing at night.
Speaker 2:Ooh. Maybe morning when I can, when I don't have kids screaming at me,
Speaker 1:Those blisful mornings.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:What is your favorite writing snack?
Speaker 2:Ooh, I'm looking at my desk right now and there's a couple rappers. Uh, maybe, maybe nuts. I'm a, I'm a healthy person.
Speaker 1:Maybe any, what is your favorite kinda nut?
Speaker 2:Ooh, definitely cashew.
Speaker 1:Yes. Agreed. Totally. If hotel Magee had a theme song, what would it be?
Speaker 2:Oh, I haven't thought about this one before. Oh gosh. Probably something from Florence in the machine. I don't know. I've been listening to her new album.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I can see that something Frenchy, but
Speaker 2:Ooh, that's true. Like something very over the top.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like circus music almost, but dark circus music,
Speaker 2:Evil, dark circus music,
Speaker 1:You know, very popular genre. Um, do you have a favorite writing craft book?
Speaker 2:I um, I would say know, however I think save the cat was the one book that things switched on for me. Any new writers? Definitely. I would actually recommend audio booking it for some reason that helped every Jo I would listen to it. Enjoy interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Um, I have to point out that the author of saved the cat writes the novel. Jessica Brody was our first ever guest on this podcast, ah
Speaker 2:Know,
Speaker 1:Should go. And then the book really, Uh, what is the best writing advice you have ever received?
Speaker 2:Ooh. Um, this is very small, but someone once told me never when you write dialogue to never have your characters answer each other. So if someone asks question, don't have your character answer them. You
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Always, always have them say something totally disparate from what the other person just said and it, and it works every time
Speaker 1:I am so fascinated by that. I am gonna keep that in mind and, and like be looking for it now and like see what I can do with that. I have never heard that before, but I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Uh, do you have any writing rituals?
Speaker 2:I do ish. I, um, I used to be more into rituals now. It's just like, when can I write? I need to write now. Um, but I, I love candles and I drafted this book definitely with, um, a candle that smells like laundry and a candle that smells like darkness. I, I dunno what, what in them, but that's how describe them.
Speaker 1:Don't show what darkness smells like.
Speaker 2:Like I dunno. And I dunno darkness,
Speaker 1:Clearly It smells like a cave,
Speaker 2:Pleasant, darkness,
Speaker 1:Pleasant, darkness, pleasant, not the damp Dan kinda darkness. What is your favorite thing to do that has nothing to do with reading or writing?
Speaker 2:Ooh, I walk. I'm a huge, huge Walker. I actually, um, come up with most of ideas while I'm walking without purposely trying to think of ideas.
Speaker 1:What book makes you happy?
Speaker 2:Um, oh gosh. Oh, I it's usually whatever book I'm reading at the time, um, that I can totally lose myself in, but lately I, so I have a seven year old and he's been really into, um, uh, Dave silky. I've been reading dog man with him.
Speaker 1:Oh fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Those books have made me really happy.
Speaker 1:I love that. I, uh, have been meaning to pick those up for my girls. We haven't read them as a family, but I, I know they would get such a kick out of them.
Speaker 2:They're great. I know there's there's stuff for parents and then there's also stuff for kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What are you working on next?
Speaker 2:Ooh, that's a good question. A secret. I um, I dunno what I can say, but it's, I would say that it's, it's another standalone and it definitely has the same. Um, it might actually be more epic in terms of just the world and uh, it's magical. It's very magical.
Speaker 1:Nice. Lastly, where can people find you?
Speaker 2:Sure you can finally mostly on Instagram at Emily can Wright. Um, and I'm on the same handle at Twitter. And then, um, my author website is Emily J. Taylor author.com.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 2:Of course,
Speaker 1:Readers. Be sure to check out hotel Magna. It comes out tomorrow. Of course, we encourage you to support your local indie bookstore. If you can, if you don't have a local indie, you can check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marisa Meyer. Next week, I will be talking with HANA ACR about her Scrabble themed murder mystery. I love that premise so much queen of the tiles. If you're enjoying these conversations, please subscribe and follow us on Instagram at Marisa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy, stay cozy and whatever throws at you today. I hope that you're feeling a little bit happier.
