The Happy Writer with Marissa Meyer
A Chilling Young Adult Murder Mystery with Rebecca Barrow - Bad Things Happen Here
Marissa chats with Rebecca Barrow about her YA murder mystery - BAD THINGS HAPPEN HERE - as well as looking at the types of books you like to read to help you decide what you should be writing; the huge role that voice can play in achieving a stark, chilling vibe for your mystery or thriller; how to develop both settings and characters that have layers, depth, and secrets; using your protagonist's unique perspective to highlight those elements of your story world that you most want readers to pick up on; deepening your characters by taking a closer look at the choices they are making, and what is motivating those decisions; and some things to consider when determining whether to tie up all those loose ends, or to leave some subplots unresolved.
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Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa chats with Rebecca Barrow about her YA murder mystery - BAD THINGS HAPPEN HERE - as well as looking at the types of books you like to read to help you decide what you should be writing; the huge role that voice can play in achieving a stark, chilling vibe for your mystery or thriller; how to develop both settings and characters that have layers, depth, and secrets; using your protagonist's unique perspective to highlight those elements of your story world that you most want readers to pick up on; deepening your characters by taking a closer look at the choices they are making, and what is motivating those decisions; and some things to consider when determining whether to tie up all those loose ends, or to leave some subplots unresolved.
The Happy Writer at Bookshop.orgPurchasing your books through our webstore at Bookshop.org supports independent bookstores.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Hello, and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I am your host, Marisa Meyer. Thank you for joining me. One thing, making me happy this week. It is tipping signing season. Once again, what are tippings you ask? Um, okay. So sometimes when a new book is coming out, uh, different book sellers, or maybe like subscription boxes, we'll request signed copies. So the book printer sends blank pages to us authors. We sign them, we send them back and then those pages get inserted into the final books and voila signed copies. Uh, so years ago, the first few times that I was asked to sign Tippins, it would maybe be like two or 3000 pages to sign. But the last couple of years, I think book sellers have started to realize, like, this is a really great marketing strategy. Uh, and so it's been like closer to 15 to 20,000 pages to sign. And that probably sounds like a big, scary, intimidating number, but I love tipping signing season. And here's why, if it is an obvious, I can sometimes have some workaholic tendencies. Um, it can be really, really hard for me to take a break. And maybe just like tonight, I'm gonna watch a movie just because I feel like it, or I'm gonna spend the afternoon like relaxing on the patio and listening to a podcast, or I'm gonna binge a TV show or like, you know, these things that you shouldn't feel guilt about, but it is so hard for me to take that moment when I'm constantly like, no, I should be working. I need to be productive, you know, et cetera, et cetera. But when there's tippings to sign, I can camp out in front of the TV or I can listen to an audio book while I'm signing. And it kind of like soothes that part of me that is always trying to be productive while also getting to just relax and do something enjoyable for myself. So I know it's super nerdy. I know that I should probably just get better about giving myself a break once in a while and taking the time to relax. But whatever I do love it. When the Tipman start showing up, of course, I am also so happy to be talking to today's guest. She is the critically acclaimed author of interview with the Vixen. This is what it feels like, and you don't know me, but I know you, she also had a short story appear in the fools in love anthology, which I have not read this anthology, but it sounds so cute. I really need get my hands on it. Her newest novel, bad things happened here. Just came out last month, please. Welcome Rebecca Barrow.
Speaker 2:Hi
Speaker 1:People for
Speaker 2:Joining you today.
Speaker 1:Welcome. Thank you so much for joining me. So this, uh, episode isn't coming out for a couple of weeks. So by the time it comes out, your book will be out in the world. But as of today, we're just a few days away from your launch. How are you feeling?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah. It's final countdown time. I am feeling exhausting.<laugh>
Speaker 1:That is a legitimate response.<laugh>
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm excited. I'm I'm looking forward to it being out. It's already started appearing on the shelves here in the UK. So
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm<affirmative> did it have a different launch day or was it just, you know, some books gottent out early?
Speaker 2:Yes. So it's coming out the same day as the us, but yeah, I think someone who just started creeping out a bit early. Yeah. Which is always a bit nerve wracking because in your head you have, like, this day is the day that my book is gonna come out before that day. It's not out and no one can read it. And after that day, everyone can read it. But then if they start creeping out a bit early, you're like, oh no. Now people can read it before I was emotionally prepared to know that they could read
Speaker 1:It.<laugh> right. I know, I know exactly what you were talking about. And I always thought it was weird when like some people would start posting on social media, like, look, I've got a copy of the book or maybe they even read it and review it. And then other readers are like, Hey, where's my copy. How come I can't get it? And it, I dunno, I can put the author in a weird position sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You're like, I, I don't control this part. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:<laugh> right. Right. Um, now I know, has it been a busy, uh, build up with all the promotions?
Speaker 2:Um, yeah. It's just been a kind of you, it's such a strange thing to be an author with all these periods of like, just absolutely nothing happening, all the waiting for things to start happening. And then of course they always come all at once. So I feel like I've just been waiting for this book to come out for like almost two years. And then all of a sudden, the past couple of weeks, it's like, can you do this interview? Can you write this promo post? Can you think of another idea for a promo post? Can you, and I'm, I need to remember to do like a, a Twitter thread and on Instagram and don't, I'm not doing reels, I've taken myself out of the reals game talk. I can't handle it.
Speaker 1:<laugh> yeah.
Speaker 2:Only focus on what I've got.<laugh>
Speaker 1:<laugh> yeah, no, it is weird. It is that weird part of the writing gig or you're like, but I kind of wanna be working on the next book, but suddenly you are a marketer, you're a promoter and it's, it can be hard kind of getting in and out of that mindset.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I would say they're definitely that part of it is not my strong suit. So I'm willing to do things that are thrown at me today. I did a radio interview for the first time.
Speaker 1:Oh, how did it go
Speaker 2:Nervewracking? But I think it seems go well immediately afterwards, me different members of my family or texting me like that was really good. You sound like you've had media training. And I was like, well, I haven't<laugh> so that I just mimicking everything I've ever heard anyone else say and do on the radio, I guess fun. That was like a different challenge, but it is a lot then cuz you know, I didn't even know that was gonna happen until yesterday. So all of a sudden you're like, oh, okay, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna be on the radio tomorrow. Okay. Oh
Speaker 1:Wow. Well that's kind of good. It doesn't give you the like for me, if I have too much build up time, then I can get really nervous. But if it's just like thrown at you, you're like, okay, here we go. We'll do this.<laugh> um, so the first question that I like to start with is I would love to hear your author origin story. How did you get here?
Speaker 2:Okay. Um, I am, I think one of those really cliche writers, who's like I have always written stories and I've always wanted to, to be a writer. Um, so I think I've just always been making up little stories and stuff, but how I really got started, I guess when I was 16 and I'm aware again, this is a very boring way to spend the summer holidays. But when I was 16, I thought, I think I'm gonna take this summer holidays to try and write a book<laugh>, you know, instead of doing fun things. Um, and the real reason for that was cuz in the UK, we, well, at least when I was at school, um, like when you're 16, that's like your last year of um, like traditional school, then you go on and do like your a levels or you go to college, et cetera, but it's that's your last year and you have all these exams and then you, you finish like really early the school year finishes really early for you. So it had like a much longer summer than I normally would have. And I was kind of like, how am I gonna fill all this time? And of course my logical answer was like, what if I wrote a book<laugh> so I just decided to do that. And I, I wrote this adult. I don't even, I could you call it women's fiction I guess. But when I look at rumor, I looked back at it. I was like, oh, this is a ye book dress. They're literally teenagers wearing grownup clothes and being like, I am a grownup, I have a grownup job.<laugh> like they lived in New York,<laugh> in this like beautiful apartment and their jobs were a photographer and works in an art gallery. So I don't know how they were affording anything.<laugh>
Speaker 1:Yeah. I just, can I pause you for a second? Cuz when I was a, a teenager, I also wrote a quote unquote women's fiction. They also felt very Y and they also lived in New York and I also had someone who worked in an art gallery, so, oh, Myra,
Speaker 2:It was just like, that's a very cool and chic job, like
Speaker 1:So cool
Speaker 2:Selling art being knowledgeable, but also having like parties and like
Speaker 1:Cocktails. Yes<laugh>
Speaker 2:So yeah, I did that. And then I really, that was how I started and I did query that I queried, I sent two queries, um, and I sent them, like I sent physical, put them in the post queries because at the time I don't know what, I guess maybe it was kind of around the time of everybody switching to email, but I had this real thing of like, if somebody accepts an email query, they're not a legitimate, I don't wanna be there. I don't wanna be with an ages. School takes emails. Are you kidding?
Speaker 1:Which
Speaker 2:Is like, what? So I sent out these two queries by post and then of course they like send them back after months and you're like, you get your actual full manuscript back through the post. And you're like, oh my God, this could be it. And then of course it's not
Speaker 1:<laugh>. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, now I'm looking back. I'm like, you could have just saved yourself so much time. Just send a quick email and they can quickly email you back. Like, no thank you.<laugh> instead of waiting months for the post, but um, I, yeah, I wrote, um, I think four books after that and I queried and I just kept querying kept writing. And then my, uh, fourth or fifth book was the one that got me, my agent. And then somewhere along the way. Well, after I'd written that, uh, quote unquote women's fiction, uh, was when I was like, I think I wanna write why. And actually the reason that I decided that was, I kept hearing that advice of, you know, you need to read what you're gonna write, you know, you need to be like so well versed in your genre and your category. And every time I heard that I went, oh, but I don't wanna read that.<laugh> I, I wanna read why. And then I was like, well, maybe you should write Y then<laugh>
Speaker 1:Imagine that
Speaker 2:That's crazy. Maybe the thing that you're interested in reading should be the thing that you actually write mm-hmm<affirmative> so, and that's yeah, that took me about seven years, I think from that first book to, um, to get my first agent. And then my first, um, that book that I got my agent with, um, actually sold, which I was not prepared for. I was very prepared to sit on sub for a year or two and do my next project and have it go that way, but they actually sold, so that was good.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, no, I, the advice to, you know, write what you loved to read. I remember, um, do you remember when chicklet was a thing and was really, really popular? Yeah. Uh, I like, didn't really like the genre of chicklet, but it seemed so easy to write, which of course is a ridiculous thought to have, but it was just like fashion and you know, I don't know, breakups and you know, blah, blah, blah. I was like, I could do that. And so my, some of my first attempts were chicklet and then I remember hearing the same advice, like, but I don't actually like to read it. Maybe this is not right for me. Yeah. Good to keep in mind. Um, alright. So now you've had a number of books out and your, I wanna is your fourth novel, right?
Speaker 2:Yes. Number.
Speaker 1:Yes. Your fourth novel is coming out next week. Would you please tell listeners a little bit about bad things happen here?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So bad things happen here is a mystery thriller about a girl who lives on a beautiful island that is cursed by the deaths of young girls. Um, she has already lost her best friend to it like a few years before the book starts. And then when her sister is killed, she decides to take it upon herself to investigate and find out who is responsible and also how the curse kind of works. And if she is in danger.
Speaker 1:So when I am reading a book for this podcast, you know, usually I'll jot down notes and questions, you know, things that I wanna talk to the author about. Uh, you now hold the record for the earliest in a book that I have ever written a note that I have to ask about this. And that happens on the dedication page before we get to chapter one, you dedicate the book to yourself. Talk to about that. So curious about this.
Speaker 2:Um, so I decided to dedicate the book to myself. So I, my first book I, um, dedicated to no one I had, no, I had no dedication. I had no epigraph or anything. I think I was, I, I was looking for the, the right thing to put in. And then I was like, oh, this is really forced. I'm not gonna do anything. And then my second one, I was like, actually, I'm gonna do a dedication for this one. And, um, I forget, this is really bad. I forget the exact wording, but it was, you know, two like, um, everybody listening to their favorite song in their room at 2:00 AM because my second book was about music. And then when it came to this one, the whole process of the book was very personal. I guess I went through a lot of like changes while I was writing the book. Um, the book itself kind of became a vessel for like a lot of my frustrations with publishing and like, what am I supposed to write? What do people want from me? Um, you know, along the way I kind of started just adding stuff into the book that I just wanted to have in it. Like, oh, should she, should she reference like an old Hollywood movie here? Because that's what I like. Yeah. Why not? You know,<laugh> she be wearing, wearing a dress that like I have in my wardrobe. Yeah, sure. Why not? Like, you know,<laugh>, should she be like dealing with depression? Yeah. I'm gonna throw that in as well. Kind of all the things that I would question at other times, I think because I was at, at a point of having, when I was writing it, it had no, um, no publisher I hadn't sold. So I was just kind of, it was like a big question mark book. And I ended up just kind of throwing everything I wanted to put into it, into it. And then I wrote it for so, so long. It took me, I think, um, four years maybe from like my first idea to it selling. And I've written multiple drafts of it, like from the beginning over. And so when I came to the time for dedication, I thought, oh, this one is for me. Like, I put a lot of work into this, a lot of energy, a lot of myself. Um, this is the book I think, where I was closest to maybe not quitting<laugh>, but definitely taking like time off. I remember I said to some of my friends, like as me and my agent were about to go and sub with it for the second time, I was like, if this doesn't, if this doesn't work out, like, I think I actually, I phrased it in a question of like, would it be okay if I took some time off<laugh> instead of just saying like, I think I will. And they're like, yeah, you know, you don't need permission.<laugh>
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm<affirmative>
Speaker 2:To take time off. So then it did go on to sell. So, you know, eventually when it came time to do the dedication, I thought, you know, I'll put this one for myself.
Speaker 1:I like that. No, I do think that there are certain books that we tend to write more for the readers or for the market. Um, maybe even for your publishers sometimes. Uh, and then there are books that are like, there's just so much of me in this book, or I really needed to write this one for me, you know? Yeah. To get, to get this story out or to, to, you know, fill something in myself that, that needed to be filled.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Definitely was that cuz it's also very different from my previous books. So it felt like a bit of a risk and then, you know, it paid off a bit and it was almost like I gambled on myself, you know, mm-hmm<affirmative> so yeah, it felt
Speaker 1:So. Did you ever get to take that break or did it sell and you're like, okay. Back to the grind<laugh>
Speaker 2:Yeah, it sold. And I was like, okay, I guess I have to work on this book more
Speaker 1:Now have to work now, have to actually publish this thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. This of like, I'm gonna take time off. Like I'm not gonna write at all. I'm gonna like even kind of distance myself from like the writing world. Maybe I'll get out there and explore new things. And then, you know, they were like, no, get back to your keyboard. You need to edit this now.<laugh>
Speaker 1:Yeah. Right. So one thing I'm really curious about, because one of the, the most striking things to me about this book is the voice. And in just like reading, you know, blurbs about the book and, you know, on your website, there was like a couple quotes from like Kirks reviews and this sort of things. And it seems like everybody notices the, the, the writing it's atmospheric it's chilling. It's very, has kind of a starkness to it. Um, and I'm really curious, you mentioned that it is very different from your previous books. How much of the, the voice in particular kind of has changed with the genre or with this book or with this character?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's such a good question because I do think it is very, I think it's kind of consistent with the voice of my other books in a way, but then I guess, because it is in this new genre and I it's like a slightly different, a slightly different world that she in habits mm-hmm<affirmative> so where like my first two books might have been, you know, there were like, as there was like a softness to them, they, I wouldn't call them fluffy. Not that there's anything wrong with a fluffy book, but they do have some heavier moments in, um, also I feel there's nothing worse than when you wanna go for like a pure fun read mm-hmm<affirmative> and then suddenly you're crying because<laugh>, you know, somebody's experiencing emotional devastation. So I don't wanna set anybody on the wrong track, but, but yeah, these, this book has a very, I guess, very little softness in it. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and I guess it's just such a darker tone for everything that she's dealing with. Um, the, like the comments about, um, like the sparseness of the voice or, you know, not, they're not being like, um, I don't know. I don't wanna quote my own Kirk review, but I feel like I have to, they said like not a word wasted. I was like, mm-hmm<affirmative> yeah, not I get maybe, and it wasn't like a purposeful, I guess I just felt like I kind of let myself take out any of the like softening of things. Like, no, she doesn't need to necessarily be like super, nicely nice all the time or looking on, you know, my other books, they have a lot of, kind of like looking for the positive in bad situations or like, you know, believing that everything's gonna work out okay. In the end. Like, and in this book, there's not a lot of that
Speaker 1:<laugh> yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Kinda sad. But yeah,
Speaker 1:But it works so well. I mean, from, you know, the first page, the first chapter, her voice, it just cements for the reader. This is what the story is going to be. And it just, before anything has even even really happened, it just gives you this really eerie vibe to it in a way that I just thought was absolutely brilliant. Did you, I mean, you mentioned that you went through multiple drafts of the book was, was Luca's voice, one of those that just like came to you and you just heard, or was it one that kind of evolved over the drafts and, and through the revision process?
Speaker 2:Um, I think she's just always been there. That's just always been her voice, I think. Yeah. She's changed a bit over the course of multiple revisions. Like the definitely, definitely the book started the idea I should say started as more of a straightforward contemporary. And then as it became more of a mystery and then like revered more towards thriller as I was working on the idea, her voice definitely developed along with that. But I think she's always really just been there as this, like, you know, I always call her like my sad girl, my like my, um, drafting name for the book was sad, bad girls.<laugh>
Speaker 1:<laugh>
Speaker 2:Cause I was like, they're kinda bad, but they're also, they're not like bad girls, like, yeah, we're gonna take you for like a drive in our car and like, well, let's go and do something crazy. They're like, let's go and listen to Phoebe bridges in the rain. Mm. Really sad, like just nothing good is happening on this island. Like it's not great here<laugh>
Speaker 1:No. And that is also something that I wanted to talk about because the island itself is such an interesting setting. It's almost like there's two completely different islands, you know, there's, there's the island that everyone else sees. It's, it's wealthy, it's privileged, it's idyllic. It's beautiful. And then there's the island that Luca, our narrator sees. And as the reader, seeing it through her eyes, like you get the impression that like, yeah, there's people who have beach, front houses and yachts here, but there's never a moment when you're like, you know what? I would really like to go vacation on this island.<laugh> like, she just has such, you know, a, a perspective on like what the island is actually hiding. And it was so cool to kind of be able to see it from both lights.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's like when you're writing a place like that, I mean, I'm obsessed with stories about like these perfect places that have something horrible underneath. Like I'm obsessed with pretty little liars. I'm sorry. I'm still not over it. It's been, the show has been done for years and I'm still watching it.<laugh> like my Netflix is always somewhere paused within the series. I listened to like multiple podcasts about it. I'm deep into it. And I grew up watching desperate Housewives. Like I love all of the, like, you know, there's something. So just, it feels almost like it's punching you in the face. Like nothing can be this perfect. Mm. Like, of course there's something terrible, hidden in here, but nobody wants to admit that there's something terrible because like we can't possibly admit that anything bad happens in this place because then it wouldn't be the perfect place that we have found and carved out as our own home. And like probably for a lot of them, um, you know, made sacrifices to get to
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm<affirmative>. Was it difficult, like as, as you were developing the setting, how much of it were you trying to like convey to the reader? This is a really nice place. If you're willing to overlook some of these things or were you just like, you know, this place, it is cursed and it does have a darkness. And I want the reader to, to feel that
Speaker 2:I think it's maybe more, more like the, the former, like there's something about, there's something about just life in general. Like we all live in places that are good and bad, so I don't want to like write, I didn't wanna write the story and be like, Hey, like I wanna smack you over the head with the fact that like, it might look nice, but it's also terrible. Like I kind of want to draw people in and go like, Hey, wouldn't it be nice if you lived here? Mm-hmm,<affirmative>, it's that same feeling of, you know, me, I'm not like a super wealthy person. And when I look at super wealthy people, I'm like, Hey guys, you should share your money with other people. That would be really nice. Like what if everybody had a place to live? And what if everybody could afford like healthcare, but then you secretly, or maybe not secretly, you have your own fantasies of like, but you know, if I won the lottery tomorrow, like that would be really cool. Actually. I'd love to have like, you know, I'd love to buy a yacht and just sail around the world on my ginormous yacht. And I'd love to fly my private jet everywhere. Like there's something seductive about these things, even though like in my like everyday life, I'm like, I don't actually agree with these things, but you know, if somebody were to hand them to me tomorrow, maybe I would change my mind. So this island it's kind of like, you know, maybe you would like to go there. I personally, wouldn't like to go there. I personally wouldn't find, never go to Paris, the island
Speaker 1:<laugh><laugh>
Speaker 2:I, I don't think it would be fun, but you know, it is that question of like, what are you willing to, you know, deal with to have this nice life and have this luxurious place and all these things surrounding you?
Speaker 1:Yeah. No, and I think seductive is a really good word to kind of describe like, there's, there's a, there's something wrong, but there's also an appeal that, that, you know, is very universal, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, let's talk about some of the, the relationships we have Luca in the center of the story. Um, she is, you know, sort of takes on the detective role. Her, her sister, her best friend has died. Uh, she believes as a result of this curse, uh, very early in the book, her sister winds up dead as well. And she does not trust the police because the police have failed to solve so many of these deaths. And so Luca takes it on herself to try to solve, uh, the mystery of her sister and hopefully the mystery of the curse as well. And in doing so, um, you know, we, we see her kind of move through this group of people, uh, who are, of course, people who live on the island, small community, everybody knows everyone. She's grown up with a lot of these people. Um, and I felt that a lot of the, the suspense and the tension in the book came from these various, these various relationships, people that Luca feels like she knows well, but then she's constantly uncovering secrets and adding new depth to who are these people really? So talk to me just a little bit about character development and you know, how much do you know about your characters before your writing? How much is uncovered for you along with Luca, et cetera?
Speaker 2:Well, that's an interesting question as well. I think I, I usually, I know, I, I love to be asked things that I have never thought about really<laugh>
Speaker 1:And I'm sorry if I'm like, feel like I'm throwing you some hard balls is, is one of those books that, uh, the craft just seemed like really well done. I mean, didn't seem it was really well done. And whenever there's a book that I like Marvel at some of these craft aspects, I just wanna like dig into the author's brain and like, but tell me your secrets. How did you do that? How you do that?<laugh>
Speaker 2:I like, no,<laugh>
Speaker 1:Yeah,
Speaker 2:I guess I have the, I usually have these really like clear ideas of my main characters or the, the ones who get the most focus. Um, I guess in this one, there's quite a lot of like peripheral characters who they have a lot of detail to them, maybe more so than I have, like in my other books. Um, I think it was, I kind of, it was important to know a lot about them from the beginning, because you need to know the motivations behind their actions, like why, you know, who's telling the truth and who's covering things up and who's lying and why they're doing this. Like, mm-hmm,<affirmative>, who's protecting who and what does all of it mean to them because, you know, Luke's experiencing this whole time and the island in one way, and then you kind of have to take a step back and like reorient yourself and go like, okay, so, um, you know, their, their close friend, her sister's best friend Madison, like she's experiencing life on this island in her own way. And from her own perspective and their other friend, Beth is, has grown up and has dealt with different things and she's viewing the island in her own way. And it's, and then Lu's, uh, former friend slash girl that she fell in love with in a terrible decision<laugh> um, yeah, I don't think that was ever gonna go well, but, you know, she's experienced the island, uh, very differently from the rest of them because she's not as wealthy, so everybody's bringing their own perspective and it really plays into like a story like this, where there's like so much at stake and you have to know why, why they would make the choices that they would make, you know, mm-hmm
Speaker 1:<affirmative> are you, um, an outline writer or more of a seat of your pants sort of writer?
Speaker 2:Um, I would say somewhere in between, but I'm becoming increasingly more of an outliner, especially like moving into mystery and thriller. It's very hard to just completely wing a mystery because yeah, if you dunno what's happening. Although I have met, I have met other thriller writers who have said like, no, I had no idea. I just made it up as I went along. I'm like, that's interesting. That
Speaker 1:Is to me
Speaker 2:Do that. How did you do that? And you came out with a really good mystery.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I've been sitting at my desk for six months straight trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm become more of an outliner now. It's just, you know, figuring things out before I used to be very, like, I'm discovering the story as I go and, you know, um, I, I kind of know where we're heading towards, but you know, it's about the journey and now I'm like, the journey is fun and everything, but I would appreciate not having to take six different journeys<laugh> order to get to the destination. I just wanna get straight there please.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think cuz obviously we all have our own process and like you mentioned, there are mystery writers who can just kind of go and explore the story and see how things reveal themselves. Um, but this does seem mystery in particular, seems to be the sort of genre that as a writer, it is really helpful to know what is the, who done it? How did they do it? How did they cover up? What are the clues gonna be like? It just seems like it'd be really difficult to just go with the flow and hope that in the end you have a mystery. That makes sense.<laugh>
Speaker 2:Yeah. I saw I've I always knew who did it that I think that's maybe one of the only things that never changed. So I guess you kind of have to work backwards a lot of the time to go. Okay. And how do we come to understand who did it and you know, who are we looking at along the way and what are the red herrings and you know, what are the, what are all the questions that are being thrown up along the way? I don't think I could manage my way through that. Just writing it as I went.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know. We would end up in so many different places and so far away from the point, but yeah, it's definitely, it's definitely like a, a real challenge to write a mystery. I commend everybody who does it, cuz it's not easy<laugh>
Speaker 1:I do too. And like that includes you. Like you have done it.<laugh>
Speaker 2:I've done it now. I sometimes I feel like that I've really done it now. Haven't I<laugh>, I really
Speaker 1:Were there, um, ever any of the, cuz this is one of those books where, oh, sorry, this is one of those books where, uh, you know, there's so many secrets revealed from various characters. Was there ever a secret that you hadn't planned on that kind of surprised you and then you were like, ah, now I need to figure out how to work this in.
Speaker 2:Yes, there was actually, now that I'm thinking of it, I don't wanna give it away. I don't, I think, I won't even say which character it was, but one of the characters, um, they just kind of were there, I guess, along the way. And then I kind of, it just kind of came to me like it's one of those moments that I love, you know, when you're just doing something completely unrelated to writing and you're like, oh my God, wait, I know what I know what needs to happen. Okay. I got this like, wait, is this gonna work? Does this work? And then you're like, I have to abandon the task I was actually doing to go and figure this out for an hour.<laugh>
Speaker 1:I love those moments.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I loved them so much. Um, I had a moment of, so like Lucas's best friend Polly is already dead, um, before the book even starts. But when I was writing it, she, there was a long time that poly was alive.
Speaker 1:Ah, interesting.
Speaker 2:And was like a friend that had, um, there was a lot of a long, a long time where it was actually Luca who had moved to a new place. So she had left poly behind and I, I really vividly remember where I was. I was driving and I a, a road that I drive all the time, but now every time I drive on that one part, I'm like, this is where I thought, oh, oh my God, poly, poly needs to be dead. Poly needs to die. That's it.<laugh> and then so very sorry, poly, like,
Speaker 1:But poor. Yeah. Um, so has the title said, you know, speaking of poly who, uh, is certainly not the first girl to die on this island, but she's kind of the first one that we really get to know. Um, and the, the deaths on this island have piled up over the years. You just list, you know, girl after girl tragedy after tragedy. And we do get some answers by the end, but we don't get all the answers by the end. Um, and it is one of those books that feels resolved in some ways, but also kind of leaves you wanting more. Was that a something that you always knew that you were going to do was kind of have more of this open ending?
Speaker 2:Yes. So I was very, I, I was very set on that because, so I'm a person that I, I have, um, taken in a lot of true crime over the years and you know, we're in like a huge, true crime boom right now. Mm-hmm<affirmative> um, and the one thing that I have always found kind of fascinating in a, in an odd way maybe is just people's, um, fixation on like getting every single answer when it's just so impossible. A lot of the time, like, um, when you're watching, if you're watching a show or listening to a story about like, you know, this person went missing and they've been missing for 10 years and you know, no one knows what happened to them and everybody has all their theories and everybody's trying to rationalize like, well, they did this thing that was out of character. So maybe that means like this other ginormous, like leap of logic<laugh> um, and a lot more clients might think like, well, there's just, there's just things we're never gonna have answers for. Um, and there's a lot of stuff. If you actually look at yourself like through your day, sometimes you just do things differently or randomly like, you know, why would you decide to like, take this really long route instead of just going the normal, like 10 minute drive that you normally make? Maybe you just felt like it that day, but you know, if you happened to go missing that day and they found out like, well, she, instead of driving the normal way that she went, she went like 50 minutes out of her way. What was she doing? And they'll never know that it was maybe because like on that day you thought like, I, I really wanna just sing along to some music. Like I'm gonna take a longer way home so I can get some more music time in and people, I there's something in human nature. I think that is, we want answers. Like I always think that about like, we are always looking for like things out in space and things in this. Like, we need to know every little detail of things. We are like, not satisfied until we know like what everything means. And in a lot of like crimes and violent crimes or disappearances and things, there's just no way to get those answers. And I, I really didn't want to like set up a story that was like, and here is like every single detail of every single crime that has occurred over the years and everything is solved and everybody has their resolution and it's all entirely in the end because it's, it's never gonna be neat entirety like that. You know, like people really do go missing and people really are murdered in like horrible, violent crimes and not everybody gets justice for it or their families don't get answers. And sometimes there's just no way to know. Like, it's just the way it isn't, it's very bleak. Yeah. But I didn't want to have this like fake false happiness at the end or false hope for anything like, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no. And I think it really works for this book, you know, kind of going back to the voice and how the whole, there's just this very kind of chilling vibe throughout the whole story. Like you've really set up from the beginning, like it is okay for your readers to feel uncomfortable. And so if there's some discomfort of the fact that there isn't a nice little bow tied on to every mystery at the end, it just works. It fits this book. It fits the feel of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Thank you. I really, I really tried hard with that. Like yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm glad to know it's
Speaker 2:Paying off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no. And I had wondered at one point, if maybe you were setting yourself up for spinoff books,<laugh> like, we'll just tackle the mysteries one at a time.<laugh> all right. My last question, before we go into our bonus round, there is this, uh, a tiny hint of a paranormal bent with the curse. Luca believes that the island is cursed and there again, we kind of don't know by is the real, is the not real, uh, for you. Do you think that the island is cursed?
Speaker 2:Do I think the, Hmm, do I think the island is, I'm gonna say yes. I'm gonna say yes. Um, I'm gonna say yes and just leave it at that.
Speaker 1:<laugh> that's fair. That's fair.<laugh> and then hopefully you're in the business of not answering all of our questions and giving us next resolution. So
Speaker 2:People have read it. They can decide whether they think the island is really cursed and I'd love to have a discussion with people about, do we think the island is cursed or not? And what does that mean?<laugh>
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure. I'd love to talk to some other readers and break it down. What are your thoughts? This would be a good, uh, book club pick by the way.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay. I'm gonna keep that in mind.
Speaker 1:Or if there's anyone listening who needs something for anybody
Speaker 2:Wants to start a book
Speaker 1:Club. Yeah.<laugh>
Speaker 2:I have the book book for
Speaker 1:You.<laugh> okay. Are you ready for the bonus round?
Speaker 2:I'm ready. I love a bonus round
Speaker 1:Tea or coffee
Speaker 2:Neither.<laugh>
Speaker 1:Neither. What do you drink? Yeah,
Speaker 2:I drink water and, uh, Coke. Zero. Pretty much exclusively
Speaker 1:Music or silence.
Speaker 2:Oh, silence.
Speaker 1:What is your favorite writing snack?
Speaker 2:Um, skitles
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, what?
Speaker 2:Skittles?
Speaker 1:What are skitles
Speaker 2:Wait, should I say Skittles?
Speaker 1:Oh, Skittles. OK.<laugh> yeah.<laugh>
Speaker 2:I love that. Wait to side to have a, can I sidetrack off this just for a moment?
Speaker 1:Yes, please.
Speaker 2:Um, so I was at work once and because I'm a very diligent worker, I was talking to my friends on slack<laugh> and I was also eating some Starburst. And I said, I love Starburst. Like what, what I, what are your, what are your favorite of the colors? Like, how do you rank them? Mine goes like red, orange purple green. And my friend said, excuse me, we don't have those colors here. So we had a real moment of knowing that like the colors in the UK are different to the colors in the us. And it was like, we entered some kind of Twilight zone. Oh
Speaker 1:My gosh. That is so bizarre. Why would they do that?
Speaker 2:It's very confusing. But I just thought that was funny there. I almost was like, I was like, they have Skittles in America. No, wait. Yes. Do they<laugh>
Speaker 1:It
Speaker 2:Was like, oh, we're just having some kind of lost in translation moment.
Speaker 1:<laugh>
Speaker 2:Okay. Back to the bonus.
Speaker 1:Yes. No, I, I love that. I had no idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Writing in a computer or writing in a notebook.
Speaker 2:Oh, computer.
Speaker 1:Would you rather go to the beach or go to a party?
Speaker 2:Oh, the beach.
Speaker 1:If bad things happen here had a theme song. What would it be?
Speaker 2:Ooh, I think it would have to be, um, a song that is actually called bad things. Oh, I, um, I think her name is pronounced Miko. M E I K O. Um, there's actually two versions of the song that is the original version. And then there's a remix, um, like updated version. The second one, I think is the perfect, perfect song for the book.
Speaker 1:What is the best writing advice you've ever received?
Speaker 2:Oh, that is a tough one. And this is supposed to be quick. Okay. It's um, I guess maybe kill your darlings.
Speaker 1:What does kill your darlings mean to you? Cause I know there's different interpretations among the writing community.
Speaker 2:Um, so to me kill your darlings means just to not be afraid to just take out. What's not working. I'm a big fan of revision. I hate a first draft, but I love revising. I'm not afraid to cut stuff out. I like to just cut out whole chapters, whole scenes, just put them, I, I never throw them away. I put them somewhere else so I can go back later and steal them for another project. Obviously.<laugh> why I don't wanna do more work.<laugh> Keep my work and reuse it. Um, but yeah, I feel like if you get too attached to things, you know, and you are trying really hard to keep stuff because you're like, I love this scene or I love this character and it's like, well, is it serving the book? Is it making the best story? Not necessarily. So, um, I also, from like a technical standpoint, I guess I love to just take stuff out because you can always put it back in. Mm. But sometimes you need to just see the book without certain parts to go wait, actually. Yeah. It's much, it's much better if I take out this, this chapter in between. It's so clean and perfect now. Mm.
Speaker 1:What book makes you happy?
Speaker 2:Um, what, what makes me gossip girl,
Speaker 1:What are you working on next?
Speaker 2:I am working on another mystery, kind of, um, thriller, adjacent project. Um, can't say too much about it, but I will say it is another sad girl.<laugh> um, trying to get answers.
Speaker 1:Lastly, where can people find you?
Speaker 2:Um, you can find me on Instagram, mostly I'm at Rebecca K Barrow. Um, I'm also on Twitter, under the same handle, but I'm not there as much. So, you know, you can find me on Instagram most of the time.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Rebecca, thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me
Speaker 1:And good luck with your launch next week.
Speaker 2:Thank you
Speaker 1:Readers. Be sure to check out bad things happen here. By the time you are listening to this, it will be out in stores. Of course, we always encourage you to support your local indie. If you can, if you don't have a local indie, you can check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marisa Meer next week. For all of you Allison Wonderland fans, I will be talking to Sarah Ella about her new fantasy, the Wonderland trials. If you're enjoying these conversations, please subscribe and follow us on Instagram at Maris Meyer author and at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy, stay cozy and whatever life throws at you today. I hope that now you're feeling a little bit happier.
