The Happy Writer with Marissa Meyer
Bonus: The Query Letter and Agent Search - with Joanne Levy
For our 125th episode, Marissa and Joanne talk all things query letters! Answering listener-submitted questions, we cover such topics as:
How do you know when you're ready to query?
How do you find an agent to query?
Should you send your query letter in batches?
How do you find relevant comp titles?
How do you step back and get a big picture view of your pitch?
What do you put in your bio if you don't have a writing degree or publishing experience?
How do you choose an agent if you receive multiple offers of representation?
When is it time to move on to a new project?
And more!
Purchasing your books through our webstore at Bookshop.org supports independent bookstores.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Order The Happy Writer: Get More Ideas, Write More Words, and Find More Joy from First Draft to Publication and Beyond https://bookshop.org/a/11756/9781250362377
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
For our 125th episode, Marissa and Joanne talk all things query letters! Answering listener-submitted questions, we cover such topics as:
How do you know when you're ready to query?
How do you find an agent to query?
Should you send your query letter in batches?
How do you find relevant comp titles?
How do you step back and get a big picture view of your pitch?
What do you put in your bio if you don't have a writing degree or publishing experience?
How do you choose an agent if you receive multiple offers of representation?
When is it time to move on to a new project?
And more!
Purchasing your books through our webstore at Bookshop.org supports independent bookstores.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Order The Happy Writer: Get More Ideas, Write More Words, and Find More Joy from First Draft to Publication and Beyond https://bookshop.org/a/11756/9781250362377
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Hello, and welcome to the 125th episode of the happy writer. I cannot believe that we are already 125 episodes in, I seriously feel like we just started a couple weeks ago. Um, but now it's been two and a half years, which is bonkers. So thanks to everyone who has been following along on this podcast journey the last couple of years. And if you are new to the podcast, then welcome this podcast aims to bring readers, more books, to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. And I am your host, Marissa Meyer. Thank you for joining me. I do not have a guest this week so much as I have a co-host. So I am going to let my lovely co-host Joanne introduce herself and Joanne, I would also love to hear what is making you happy this week.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Marissa. Um, this is so great to be here as a co-host um, for any new listeners, I'm Joanne levy and I'm not just the social media manager for the happy writer. I do a lot of the posting, um, and Marissa's assistant behind the scenes, but I'm also an author of middle grade books, including fish out of water, which was the book we talked about in episode 34 of the happy writer. Uh, my most recent book is the book of Elsie, which came out last week on August 16th and the book of my heart that I cannot stop talking about. It's the one that's set in a funeral home inspired by the one my dad manages is called, sorry for your loss and what is making me really happy this week and every week in the summer, it's my total summer joy is my backyard Oasis that is filled with birds and especially hummingbird. I have a hummingbird obsession and I have 10 hummingbird feeders, uh, strategically placed throughout my property. So at pretty much any moment, I can see a hummingbird and we have so many around here. Um, and that is just my total summer joy.
Speaker 1:I love that. I also love hummingbirds. Uh, we have this kind of running joke, I guess, this thing in our family. So my grandma who, you know, passed away, um, here about a year and a half ago, she also loved loved hummingbirds. And when my girls and I were studying Jamaica, we learned about the Dr. Bird, which is like this really cool hummingbird. That's got these really long tail feathers. And in some, uh, folklore, they believe that the Dr. Bird is like reincarnation of deceased, loved ones. And so now whenever we see a hummingbird, we're like, oh, there goes Grammy, Sammy<laugh>.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's so sweet. There
Speaker 1:Are special to us too.<laugh> all right, Joanne. Thank you so much for joining me. It is such a delight to have you here again. Um, as you mentioned, you were my guest way, way, way back, two years ago, episode 34. Uh, so for people who wanna hear more about you and your books, I definitely hope that they will go and check out our conversation from then, but for today, celebrating our 125th episode, you actually had the idea to do something a little different than our typical author interview. Today, we are going to be talking all about the query letter, uh, and query critiques and the search for a literary agent, which is of course, this evergreen topic in the world of writing and publishing and for people who are either going on that journey for the first time, you know, just getting ready to send out their first query letters, or maybe they've done it many, many times, but they, you know, aren't having any success and they wanna know what should I be doing differently, or even for authors who were formerly agented, but are now back in the pool and looking for a new agent, uh, maybe could use a little bit of a refresher. So that is what we are going to be talking about today. And you solicited questions on our Instagram account and listeners submitted some fantastic questions that I'm really excited to answer and talk about. So we are gonna break our discussion up into a number of kind of different topics involving the agent search and the query letter. So just for people to follow along, we're gonna start by talking about the search for the agent. How do you find an agent, et cetera, then we're gonna go into the timing. We had quite a few questions about when do I send a query letter? How do I know that I'm ready to send a query? That sort of thing we will, of course go into the content. What do you put into a query letter? And then we will wrap it up with what happens next after you have been sending your queries. So are we ready to get started? How are you feeling?
Speaker 2:I'm so ready. I'm feeling great. And, um, I've been in the query trenches a few times over the years, so I feel pretty qualified to talk about queries with you. And, um, yeah, I think, I think a lot of people find querying such a daunting, scary task. So it, it's great to sort of pull back the curtain and demystify the process and, and, you know, start by reminding people it's a business letter. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, um, first and foremost, it's a business letter and then, you know, going from there, there's lots of important elements that I think people stress over. So, um, I think we'll have a great time going over those elements.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I agree. Um, it's funny, cuz you mentioned that you've been in the trenches a few times, querying a number of different books. Um, I'm kind of the opposite. I only ever wrote one query letter and actually got the very first agent that I queried, which is like unheard of. Um, so I haven't been through the process many times, but I do joke with people that like my superpower is writing a really good query letter. Like I just feel like I'm really good at it and have helped a number of authors with theirs. Um, and even to this day, I often am the one who writes or very heavily edits the, uh, language that goes on my own book covers. Um, so I feel like it's a special skill of mine. So I'm qualified in that way. We'll say<laugh>
Speaker 2:And a copy writing copy is, is a great skill and something you definitely need for query letters. Um, yeah. And just to remind listeners that your original query is linked from our social media, from the link tree that you'll find in the Instagram profile. So if you, if listeners wanna see that query with your agents annotations, there it is.
Speaker 1:Yes. Great point. Thank you for reminding listeners about that. You can go see the query letter that I wrote for cinder, uh, and what my agent thought about it, which was obviously good things. Cause she's still my agent. Okay. The first question that I thought would be relevant to start with someone asked, do you need an agent to be traditionally published?
Speaker 2:And that's, that's an interesting question. And one that has a couple different answers. I, I would say overall, generally speaking, yes, it's always best to have an agent. They're not just, um, uh, getting you the book deal. They're also your advocate after the book deal as well and negotiating the book deal. Um, and having an agent shows that you've been vetted by a professional in the industry, um, and adding the caveat that in some markets. So for example, I'm in Canada, um, in the Canadian market tech, technically you don't need an agent. Um, there is easy access. I easy access. There is access to publishers where you can query them directly. And I know that some small presses down in the us, you can do the same. Um, but the big press is the big five. Um, there it's, it's against a lot of their, um, policy to even take on to submissions. So it, it's kind of a hard answer. Um, I'm not sure if you have something different to add to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I, I agree. It is. The answer is yes, usually<laugh> um, and most people who are looking for an agent, um, who want to be traditionally published, that means that you want your book to be in bookstores. You wanna be in Barnes and noble. You wanna be in your indie, your local indie bookstore. What have you, uh, 80% of those books are coming from these larger publishers and they do not accept manuscripts unless they're coming from an agent. You as an author cannot submit your work straight to them. Are there other paths to publication? Absolutely. You mentioned small presses, not all of them need agents. Sometimes you can submit to them directly. Uh, of course there's, uh, self-publishing is a route that many authors choose to go on. So there other are other ways to get published specifically to be traditionally published this day and age. You almost always are gonna need an agent almost.
Speaker 2:And I feel like I should add, um, also before everybody runs and starts querying Canadian publishers, um, because of the way that Canadian publishing is, they generally only take Canadian authors because it's a granting system. So please us friends don't go and query all the Canadian publishers cuz you won't have a lot of Lucket, it's kind of a different system and I could go on and on about Canadian publishing and why it's so different. But um, if you are Canadian, it, it is an option for you.
Speaker 1:Our next question was how do you go about finding agents and specifically finding legitimate agents? And we have another question about legitimacy coming up, but uh, well how would you find your agent?
Speaker 2:Um, my current agent, uh, her name's Hillary and she is at a big agency out of Toronto. Um, but back when I was in the trenches several times, um, it, there are some resources out there that are really, really great for cross referencing legit agents and you really need to do your due diligence and it starts with, um, for me it was query tracker.net. I think it is, um, also linked from the, our link tree and the Instagram, um, query tracker.net, um, agent query.com. Um, and also another great way of finding agents is pick up books that you like and read the acknowledgements. And a lot of times authors will thank their agents and you just get a sense of who represents what, um, but yeah, there's lots of resources out there and you can sort of cross reference and get a sense of what they represent and if they would be a good agent for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. That, uh, you mentioned picking up books that you like and reading the acknowledgements. That's how I found my agent. Um, I was a really big fan of Scott Westerfeld and you know, he had the fantastic ugly series, which I thought there are similarities here to the lunar Chronicles that I was, was writing. Um, and so looked in the acknowledgements page and Jill Grinberg. Okay. So I queried her. Um, but I also did. I remember having an Excel sheet with, you know, other agents and the same sources that you mentioned, agent query and agent tracker in these, um, I think are a lot of authors are finding their agents. Uh, you can also get publisher's marketplace, which is a, a book that is released every year, um, that has a huge long listings of agents that you can query as well. I feel like those are probably the top. You can go to conferences, you can meet agents at conferences. Um,
Speaker 2:Publisher's marketplace also has a searchable database of deals. Mm-hmm<affirmative> um, you need to be a member to, to be able to search the deals, but you can join for one month. And I think it's like 25 bucks for a month, so you can join, um, search all the deals that you want and see who represents what, um, and who they sold the, the book to and all that stuff. So that's, that's also an online resource. And on the other side of who are legit agents, um, there's another website. Um, I don't remember the exact URL, but if you Google writer beware, um, it shows lists of scam agents and publishers and who's been problematic and, and things like that. So those are another resource you can cross reference to cross people off your list.
Speaker 1:<laugh> yeah. Yeah. And on that note, we did have one listener ask, do you have to pay to submit a query to agents and how much is normal? The answer is a huge resounding no, no, you should never have to pay money to submit an agent, to submit to an agent or to submit a query letter. If they're asking for money upfront, then run, run the other direction. Would
Speaker 2:You agree? Yeah. Money should always flow to the author and agents. They take a cut of what you earn, so they should not get paid up front there. I think there are services that will write people's queries for them. That's a little different, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't advise that either because you need to be an advocate for your own work and, and yeah,
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, and it's different of course, than like soliciting, you know, a critique from an editor that you might pay for, or, you know, there are of course resources that you might wanna pay money for. You should never have to pay money to submit a query letter to an agent. Yeah. Um, what is, I thought this was a good question. What is the etiquette about asking your published author, friends to get you an introduction to their agent? Um, and I, I have been that author friend for many of, of my, uh, friends as they've been on the agent search. Joanne, think it, I mean, it's a little bit of question of how close are you to this friend, if it's a, just a vague acquaintance, then that might be awkward, but if it's a true friend of yours, they probably are really rooting for you and really want you to have success. And they'd probably be super excited if you were agent in the same, you know, agency family. So I would not hesitate to ask, but I would be really clear about your expectations. Of course, it's not your author's decision, whether or not that agent is going to choose to represent you. Um, so make it clear, like I would love if you could just mention them or let them know that I'm going to be submitting a query letter. Uh, and then that's it that's, their job is fulfilled in that regard. Um, and of course be very thankful if they do agree to do it, but you have no expectations of what would come of it after that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I, I think doing it at an arms length, like that is, um, good for the friendship, um, and the relationships all around, um, because it is a professional, uh, relationship between, you know, you and your agent and, and it it's one thing if you've, if you, your friend has read the book and loved it and oh, I would love to tell my agent that, you know, you're gonna query them, but if they haven't read it, it can get complicated or, you know, so just keep it that arms length, I think. Um, but yeah,
Speaker 1:And it also depends. I mean, it depends on, um, you know, how close you are with your author friend. It also depends on how close that friend is with their agent and the author agent relationship can be very close and very friendly. Um, but there are also authors who are very, very professional and who may not feel comfortable, uh, submitting, uh, or doing an introduction like that with their agents. So there there's a few different factors involved, but I say it never hurts to ask.
Speaker 2:Yep, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Um, and then we got lots and lots of people asking about querying in batches, should you query in batches, which means you send your query letter to multiple agents at a time and if so, how many agents would you recommend you send per batch? Um, I will just go ahead and say that I did submit my query in batches. Uh, when I was querying I sent it, I don't know, maybe like to 10 to 15 agents. Um, and for me, I only did that one batch because again, ended up signing with the first one that I'd sent it to. Um, I don't think it hurts. I don't think there's any negative necessarily to sending in batches. The worst thing that could happen is that you end up with a whole lot of yeses and then you have to decide who you're gonna go with. Um, how do you feel about it? Joanne?
Speaker 2:I, I like the idea of, of batches because then you're not waiting on one response, um, which could take years. I mean, some agents are notoriously slow and busy and COVID times have been even harder for everybody all around. Um, so I, I think batches are a good idea, but I would go with small batches, especially if you're first starting out because, um, if you're not getting any response from your query, maybe it's time to tweak your query. Maybe it really not. Maybe it's not getting the eyes on it that it should, uh, maybe it's getting dismissed. Maybe you're missing something. So maybe if you're first starting out, I would do maybe five or 10 at a time. Um, if you get no requests at all, look at your query. If you're getting out of five queries, if you're getting four requests, then you're doing a great job. If you're getting one request, you're doing a great job, but if you're not, if it's crickets out there, you need to look at your query and see what's going on. Yeah. So you don't, you don't wanna, you know, send to everybody on your list and then find out, oh, my query wasn't as good as it could be. And, and, you know, you've only got that first chance, one chance to make a first impression and you have no more people to go to. So yeah, I would, I would start with sort of smallish batches.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think that's, that's a really great point. Um, and then you can also do where, you know, if let's say you decide you're gonna do batches of 10, uh, then as a rejection comes in, now you're ready to send the next one and you can kind of keep it revolving from there. Um, which I like just for the simplicity of keeping track of things, you and I are both Excel people and we are both data people. And so it's, it's nice to be able to just have, uh, some sense in order to the process.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And it gives you that you got a rejection. Okay. I can do something. I can move forward with another query out there. So yeah.
Speaker 1:All let's move on to talking about timing. We got quite a few people asking, how do you know when it's the right time to query? How do you know that your book is ready? How many drafts should you go through before you start querying, et cetera, et cetera. Um, and I think that this is probably one of the most difficult parts of the querying process is knowing when it's time. Um, and I'll just say for me, when I was working on cinder, uh, I had a number of beta readers or critique partners, and some of them had read through the manuscript two or three times. And it got to a point, uh, where two things happened. One was that I was not changing the story at all. I was no longer making any sweeping changes to the plot, to the character arc. You know, the, the story was pretty much set. And at that point I was just tweaking language and moving comas around and, you know, rewriting sentences, that sort of thing. And at the same time, one of those critique partners after reading it for, I don't know, the second or third time sent me an email and said, it's ready send it out. And so that of course gave me a huge boost of confidence. Um, but so tho those were the things that clued me in when it was time to start querying. I don't know how, what, what do you have to say about that?
Speaker 2:Very similar. Um, like when I'm, when I'm working on a book to send, um, out on submission now, which is basically the same thing when, when I've worked on it so much that each successive draft is making it worse.<laugh>, um, that's when I know I'm done, like if I'm tinkering and I'm not changing anything, but I might be ruining it because I can't see the forest for the trees anymore. It's ready to go. So that, that's it very similar. Um, I think if, if somebody's new to querying and new to writing, um, I think you really, really, really need to have beta readers have eyes on it. Um, so that you do get that outside perspective so that an agent reading it is not the first person outside of your own head. Who's read it. And given you feedback, because like I said before, you only get that one chance to make the first impression. So you wanna make sure that manuscript is as polished as humanly possible. Um, so if you think it still needs work, it still needs work. But if you, if you think it's as shiny as you can make it, it's time to send it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I, I completely agree. There is this tricky gray area when you start to question, okay, does the book really need more work? Or am I just procrastinating? You know, is this fear keeping me from sending out those queries? And it can be really difficult to tell, you know, uh, is the, are the changes that you're making still necessary? Um, but, but I agree like the number one step to getting published is to write a great book, um, and to write the best book that you are capable of writing where you are right now. So yeah. Keep, keep going until you, you start to feel like I've, I've done it. I've done the best that I can.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, and know when it's finished and when you're just tinkering for the sake of tinkering.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Uh, one listener asked, is there an age that is too young to query? Will agents push you away? If you are young and Joanne is shaking her head and I am agreeing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, a, you don't need to put your age on your query. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, um, unless it's relevant to the story or your platform, if you're a 12 year old YouTuber with 12 million followers, that's relevant.<laugh> um, but if you're writing a, a sweeping fantasy that, and you just happen to be 12, I mean, I'm being facetious probably you're not 12, but maybe you are, you could be 12
Speaker 1:Who knows. I've had some brilliant 12 year.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. If your story is amazing and well written, and it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. And honestly, if it gets to a point where you're at a contract, um, you have a parent or guardian who will help with that. I'm sure. So, um, yeah. I, I don't think it excludes you and you don't need to put it up front that how old you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yep. Agreed. I don't think agents care. They just want a book that they can exactly sell to a publisher.
Speaker 2:Yep. Yeah. I don't put my age on query letters.
Speaker 1:<laugh><laugh>
Speaker 2:You shouldn't have to either.
Speaker 1:Um, and then one question that comes up a lot when you're talking about sending out query letters, what is the best or worst time of year to send queries? And I'm going to say it does not matter with a small caveat. And the caveat is that here we are in August, lots of people are on vacation in August. December is also a rough month because again, lots of people take off time for the holidays and with the rise of nano Remo national novel writing month in November, I have heard that many air agents, uh, have started to see an influx of queries from books that were written the previous month coming in in December. Uh, and so maybe August and December might be months to avoid, but typically speaking, I just really don't think it matters all that much.
Speaker 2:Yeah. If, if you write an amazing query and an even more amazing book, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter when you query it's gonna get plucked outta the slush pile. Um, just know that you might have to wait longer if you, if you're sending it those peak times. Yeah.
Speaker 1:All right. Let's move on to the actual content of a query letter, which I'm sure is what most people, uh, really want to know about when we're talking about writing query letters, because there's so much pressure put onto this little one page four to five paragraph document. Uh, and we feel like all of our hopes and dreams hinge on writing this so important query letter. So let's talk about it. What is it, what do you put into it? Um, and I'm gonna just start out by giving a typical breakdown of the elements you're going to see in almost every query letter. Uh, so generally speaking, you will open with a short introductory sentence or paragraph that will introduce the book. It will include the book's title, the genre, the word count, and maybe a sentence about why you were submitting to this particular agent. Uh, so for example, it might be something like dear agent, I am seeking representation for CDER and 85,000 word, young adults, science fiction, retelling of Cinderella. So introduce the book, word count.
Speaker 2:Your agent is the agent's name. Sorry to interrupt you there.
Speaker 1:Yes. Yes. Is that not obvious? Yes. You would not say dear agent, you would say dear Mr. So and so miss so and so, et cetera. Um, after that you will have your pitch or your synopsis paragraph. Um, we'll go more into depth, uh, on that here in a second, Lynn, you have a short bio, tell them a little bit about yourself. Um, something simple, something relevant. You don't need to give your entire life story, and then you'll have a sign off line, which is gonna be something to the effect of, I have attached the first 50 pages as per your submission guidelines. Thank you for your consideration. Something very polite to, to close it out. Um, so that is kind of the basic format of most query letters. The first question, is there a specific length that the query letter should be? Uh, my recommendation is always keep it as short as possible while managing to sell it, make it intriguing, but short, if it's longer than a page, it's probably too long.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Agree. And going back to it, being a business letter, um, you need all your pertinent information in there and nothing more because if, if you get Ramly in your query letter, then the agent is probably gonna assume you get Ramly in your writing. So I would be really careful there.
Speaker 1:Yeah. All right. So let's start with that opening paragraph. Uh, again, this is where you introduce the book, uh, give the title, give the genre. Some people save this for the end of the query letter. Personally. I like it at the beginning. It just kind of sets the tone and gives the agent just that first glance of what is it that they're reading about. And then after you've introduced the book, it is customary a lot of times to include maybe a one line, one sentence about why you are submitting to this specific agent. Um, I saw that you represent Scott Westerfield, I'm a huge fan, something like that. Um, we did have a question. What do you do if there simply isn't anything personal that has drawn you to this agent? You're, you're querying them because they represent your type of work. But other than that, you don't have a specific connection to them. Uh, should you still write something or should you leave that part out? What do you think?
Speaker 2:Well, if, if you're querying them, because they do represent work similar to yours, I would definitely include that because it, it does show that you've done your homework. Um, but you don't have to go digging for stuff that's disingenuous. So why are you querying them? There is a reason so include
Speaker 1:That. Yeah, I agree. It can be as simple as I saw in publisher's marketplace that you are looking for middle grade horror stories, maybe you'll enjoy mine, something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, um, just adding to that, because it just occurred to me another resource for finding agents, manuscript, wishlist, that hashtag M S w L. So if you Google manuscript, wishlist, um, it's a website and also it's, um, like a list lists on Twitter and a lot of agents, um, and editors will actually say what they're looking for. So that's another resource
Speaker 1:That I had no idea. I had never heard of that before, but that's brilliant.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I forgot about that. Yeah, no, it's really, it's really good. Not everybody's on there, but it's nice to get a sense. It's just another resource to add to, um, you know, your toolkit.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Um, one person asked how do I find comps for my novel? Um, so a lot of times that opening paragraph where you're introducing the book, uh, and talking about the genre, a lot of people will also give comps. For example, it is a cross between Romeo and Juliet and Jurassic park or whatever. Um, Ooh, that would be a good one.<laugh> um, how do you find comps? I will start by saying, I don't think you necessarily need them. I would only recommend putting comps into the query if you have really great comps and it is actually relevant to the book. I think sometimes people feel like they need them and then they like really have to stretch to be like, well, it's sort of like this and it's kind of like that. So I'll use my comps. Don't do that. Like, if it's really clear what the inspiration was or, um, if there's something that you just think a lot of people would get really excited about these two things being smashed together, um, or, uh, or if there's like a book that, you know, you really feel like people who love this book are really in my target audience. And I think they're gonna love mine as well, then absolutely put it in there. Uh, but you don't need it. It's not a requirement
Speaker 2:And I'm going to, um, sort of disagree there, but it's not me disagreeing. It's my agent. Ooh. Because I asked her, um, this morning, one of the questions I asked her in preparation for this, this, I said, um, what do you wish queries would include that you don't often see? And she said, it's very helpful to have accurate current comp titles, both for SNO style and content theme, clearly identifying the market and audience really helps. So I think from a sales perspective, that's what she's looking for is how am I going to sell it to an editor? And sh if it's already there in the query, she can visualize it better. And that might help her to a yes, where, oh, well, I know I could sell it like this, and this is what so, and so is looking for. So while I don't think it's a hundred percent necessary, if you've got those comps, definitely, definitely use them. But like you say, don't go digging for something that isn't necessarily there or might be a stretch, but it's, it was interesting to get her perspective that, um, that is helpful for her. And that's something she does like to see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that is, that is interesting. And that is definitely useful feedback. Um, I know I have heard, and I can't remember if it was in this podcast when I had my agent on or if it was a different conversation. Um, but I know I've heard her talk about that with comps. It can be tricky because a lot of people want to jump to the big titles. My book is like Twilight. My book is like the hunger games. And I think a lot of authors think, of course, if I've written the next hunger games who doesn't wanna represent me, but a lot of agents will see that and interpret it as you don't actually know that many other books like is hunger games, the only young adult book that, you know, and therefore you are using that as your comp. Um, so you do definitely need to make sure that it is relevant and that whatever comps you choose, it will hold up. When the agent reads the manuscript, they have to be like, wow, it really is like the hunger games or
Speaker 2:Whatever. Yeah. Yeah, totally. And I think when, when Hillary put in her note, back to me, it says it's helpful to have accurate mm-hmm<affirmative> current comp titles. So, you know, underlining accurate and current. Yeah. Um, for sure. Um, but I think the, the original question was how do you find them? Mm-hmm
Speaker 1:<affirmative> and that, yes. You're
Speaker 2:The hard part.<laugh>, um, go to a bookstore, read publisher's marketplace, um, read a lot yourself. Um, it can be hard. I think that, I think that's really the hardest part of a query letter is getting those comps just right. Because it's, you don't know what other people have read. And like you said, you don't wanna make it seem like you only know three books. Um, mm-hmm<affirmative> so it's, it's, it's hard. I think I could be wrong, but I think on the Jane Friedman site about query letter writing, which is also linked from our link tree, um, I think there is a section about comps. So I would suggest people have a look at that. Um, but beyond that, go to the bookstore and read a lot, read lot in your genre and figure out what's relevant.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. And of course, if there is a book that was really inspirational for the writing or even a movie or a TV show, you know, something that really influenced, um, that right there is probably a good sign that that could be one of your comps, um, onto the, the body, the main meat of the query letter, the pitch or the synopsis. And I think this is probably the hardest part to write, um, because it is, it is the sales, it is the sales pitch for the manuscript, and it's hard to know how much do I put in what is too much, um, et cetera, et cetera. So, uh, the, I wanna start with the question someone asked, what is your number one tip? What is the number one thing that you think you should include or you should avoid?
Speaker 2:I think, well, I'm, I'm not gonna answer that directly, but say that, that part of the query is like your back cover. Copy. It's not a synopsis of the book, it's your grab your reader by the throat and get them interested. And they, they have to read the pages because it's so intriguing and fresh and different and voicey, um, all those great things rolled into one that are hard to do. Um, but yeah, you have to, you have to sum up the story, but without telling the story, does
Speaker 1:That make sense? Yeah, it does. It does. And I think it's important to keep in mind that this is not a full synopsis. You don't have to tell the ending, you don't have to give away the big twist. It is more, just a, a hint. You were just trying to grab the agent's attention and make them want to open up that attachment and start reading the first chapter. Um, yeah.
Speaker 2:And not no sub plots, no secondary characters. You don't need to shove everything in that happens. Definitely. It's just an, it's a teaser. It's a teaser to open the pages.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, if I have one piece of advice in this whole episode, the one thing that anybody who's struggling with query letters that I think they should do it is go to your bookshelf or the library or the bookstore, and just read back covers or the flaps, if it's a hard cover and you've got the jacket, open it up, read the flap, read back cover after back cover, after back cover. And you will start to get a feel for the way that sales people, because it's often the sales team or the editor who write this copy, how are they selling this book to a potential buyer? And it's exactly the same thing that you were trying to accomplish with your query letter. How are they introducing the world? How are they introducing the main character? How are they setting up what the big conflict is going to be? And they're doing it all in just a couple of paragraphs.
Speaker 2:Yep. For sure. Totally, totally back cover copy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Um, I would also say, so this the same, the question also asked, what is your number, one thing that you would avoid? And this might be, um, not, everyone's gonna agree with this potentially. I'm not honestly really sure. Um, but I see a lot of queries that want to bring in big themes. They want to talk about, you know, this is a book that, uh, digs into the logical repercussions of loss and as it effect, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And I think that there are books that, that is important. I think actually every book has themes that are important and the book itself definitely needs to have themes. But I think that you are trying to sell the story, not necessarily what the story is about on those deeper levels.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. You don't want your, your copy to be didactic or preachy, or this is what it's about, or this is what people are gonna learn from it. But the big, I think a lot of times the big themes will be evident from your copy. Um, and if it's not, I think that's okay if that's not necessarily the plot of the book. Um, yeah. I, I think you just wanna avoid sort of spoonfeeding themes to whoever's reading your query letter and let them discover it. I, I agree. I agree with
Speaker 1:All right. One listener asked are rhetorical questions disliked by agents. Uh, I think this is a funny question.<laugh>
Speaker 2:I, do you think it's a funny question. I think it's so subjective. I mean, I think some people would hate them. I think some people don't mind them. I think some people like them, um, if it feels good to put it there and it feels necessary then. Sure. But it, I don't know. I don't think it's a crowd pleaser<laugh>
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Again,
Speaker 1:There could people who disagree, but I think it would be really hard to do it in a way that doesn't sound gimicky.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like
Speaker 1:Maybe if you've got a main character who has like a gimmicky type voice and you can work that in that, like it's the main character talk, like I think it could be done, but generally speaking, I, I would not, I would not advise
Speaker 2:To do. Yeah. And I, I definitely wouldn't use more than one. Like I wouldn't do, will they do this? And can they do that? And you know, that sort of superhero sort of, yeah, yeah. I, I don't know if you can avoid it. I I'd probably avoid it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I think I've seen, you know, queries that start out something like, you know, dear agent, would you like to read a great book about a princess who flies a SP you know, blah, blah, blah. And it's just too easy for them to be like, no, not really. And move on. So yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I've, I've seen a bunch that start with the rhetorical question and it's yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I, I don't read enough queries the way that an agent would to, to really be inside their head of oh, another rhetorical question. Mm-hmm<affirmative> but I would worry about it. I'd worry about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. If you're starting or if you have rhetorical questions in your query, I would put them under a magnifying glass. Not saying it can't be done, but I would really question is this the best
Speaker 2:Way? And, and is it necessary, can you tell it with the copy without having to use that? Yeah. Like why are you using that device?
Speaker 1:Right. Um, we had a question about tropes. Um, is it okay, or would you advise having a sense about the tropes that are in your book? Uh, for example, uh, in this book, the tropes you will find, include, et said, you know, blah, blah, blah. Uh, and then they go on to add, I keep seeing some agents list, their favorite tropes and was wondering if this would be beneficial so they can see the things that they will like found within the story.
Speaker 2:So I have a couple thoughts about that. Um, depending on what genre you're writing, um, if tropes are the done thing in your genre, I E um, adult romance sort of thing. Um, I don't think it hurts. And if, and if an agent is saying, I would love to see, um, the shared bed trope, you can put that at the top of your query and say, oh, I saw that you were looking for a shared bed trope. And guess what? My book has a, you know, that sort of thing you can use if you're using it to going back to what you said about themes and just shoving your themes on the page. I don't, I think I'd be careful about that. Mm-hmm,<affirmative>, that's sort of the same thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Um, yeah, I, I completely agree. I think that it can be done. And I love the example of using it in that top paragraph. You mentioned you love this, guess what my book includes it. Um, but I, I don't think I would typically do just like the tropes that are included in this book are X, Y, and Z. I think that a lot of tropes are going to come across in that well written pitch portion. Um, if it's a hate to love romance, then of course you want to introduce, you know, my main character is doing this, this, this, and every time she tries to do this, she is at odds with the obnoxious, but cute neighbor next door, something like that, you know, exactly comes across.
Speaker 2:Yeah, same, same as the theme thing. I mean, if you're, if you have a strong pitch, then you shouldn't have to talk about exactly what tropes they are.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:These are great
Speaker 1:Questions. They have been such good questions, such good questions. Uh, do you have any tips on learning to step back and see the query with the big picture lens that an agent would, uh, and this questioner also adds that Joanne, you provided their query critique critique a few months ago and that it was very helpful. So kudos to you, Joanne<laugh>, um, tips for taking a step back and seeing it as a big picture.
Speaker 2:I would share it with writer, friends, if you can, um, get other eyes on it, for sure. Um, yeah, I mean, it, sometimes it's hard seeing the forest for the trees when you've been tinkering with a letter for a month mm-hmm<affirmative>. Um, so yeah, if you can find somebody else to read it and would they read the book, where are they interested? Where do they see any holes in the letter? Um, I mean, it's the same as with our own writing. It's hard to see the forest for the trees. Yeah. And that's why having additional eyes on it is helpful. Um, do you have any thoughts on that?
Speaker 1:No, I think that that's really good advice. Um, I definitely always recommend that someone have their query looked at and, and read and critiqued with that exact question in mind. Do you want to read the book? Does this make you want to read on, um, and then again, going back to just reading, reading, successful query letters and reading that cover copy and getting a feel for how it's done. Um, I know for me, when I was working on the cinder query letter, I probably wrote seven or eight drafts. And, and I don't mean like I wrote it and then I tweaked tweaked, tweaked, like I wrote it and I put it in a folder instead it aside, and then a week went by and I took on a new blank page and wrote a new query letter. And then a week went by and then I wrote a new query letter from scratch every time. And then when I was getting serious about it, I kind of went through them and picked out, okay, what's my favorite line from this version. What's my favorite thing about this version and kind of pieced them together, um, and doing it that way, I thought helped because it forced me to think of the story in different ways and, you know, forced me to, well, what, how does the query letter sound if I'm focusing on the Cinderella aspect? Well, how does it sound if I'm focusing on the science fiction aspect, how does it sound? If I do I mention the LUNs, do I not mention the LUNs? Like it just having different ways of thinking about the story then helped me see what really works in this pitch material and what doesn't work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's, that's a great suggestion is to write it in completely from scratch a few times and then compare and, and use what's best out of all of them. That's a great idea. That's why it's so good. The cinder query, Marissa.
Speaker 1:Uh, thank you. I its my superpower as we established<laugh> and that is it for our questions on that main body. Do, do you have anything else to add on the pitch portion of the query letter?
Speaker 2:Um, I don't think so. I don't think so.
Speaker 1:Okay. Um, and then lastly, uh, at the end you will have a bio and I was surprised how many questions we got specifically about the bio and uh, people seem particularly concerned about what do you put in the bio if you don't have any relevant achievements, if you don't have a degree in English, if you've never published anything in your life, what do you say? Um, and I'm just gonna start by saying don't worry so much. It's okay. It is agents recognize that not every, uh, not every author has an English degree or a literature degree, not every author has a blog with 60,000 followers or AAC that gets millions ORAC<laugh> topic, its millions of views. Um, not every author has been, has had essays published in the New York times. Like they know that people who are querying them often are just getting started in their career. And that is not going to be the deciding factor if you've written the great pitch and you've written a great manuscript, you fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It, it totally doesn't matter and everybody has to start somewhere. So yeah. Yeah. Um, if I might also add what my, um, uh, agent said this morning, when I asked her, uh, what you wish queries would include that you don't often see. And she specifically said, um, I also find it interesting to know the back story behind an idea. Mm. If there's something unusual or particularly personal. Um, but she also added the caveat that is if it's not make it sound like your writing was therapy for you. Yeah. Um, she, she doesn't want it to be like, you know, your feelings and emotions vomited on the page as a catharsis for you. Um, but she does wanna know why you wrote it. So for example, I, I know for a fact that one of the things that she loved about, uh, my book story for your loss is that my dad runs a funeral home and that was my inside scoop into the funeral home. And she used that in her pitch to sell the book is that, you know, Joanne has this background, um, her dad runs a funeral home and, and she did all her research and yada yada. So I mean that helps her with her pitching and also that personal connection of why you are the right person to write that book and why you wrote it and why it's so personal and why you're passionate about it. That counts, that counts a lot in your bio, as long as it's relevant to the book. Yeah. I mean, I think people get hung up on bios and what do I put in my bio and keeping in mind, it's a business letter about you, but it's, it's gotta be relevant to the writing. So I, it doesn't read like the personal part of a resume of, um, in my free time. I like to bake pies when your book is about outer space and has nothing to do with pies. It's just, you know, you, you need that balance.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Um,
Speaker 2:Balance, isn't the right word, but you need that focus on the business part of what you're writing and why.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. And I love that your agent was able to give that insight. Um, I would maybe suggest to think about what you put in the bio is like what you would tell someone on a first date, like, don't that you do not need to give your life story, um, you know, keep it very professional. But I also, I agree, and I love the idea of kind of giving a hint to why this book and why you as the author for this book. Um, yeah. I think that that's, that's really good advice.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, and I think it's easy to forget that agents read so many queries and although yours seems fresh and exciting to you, if, if it's the 50th that you've read in one day, it's gotta be fresh and new and stand out. Now that doesn't mean to be hokey and gimmicky, but what makes you the person to have written this book? Mm. Um, cause I think that makes a difference and making it personal without being, you know, too personal.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. And would you agree? Cause I kind of feel like when it comes to the bio less is more, um, I feel like there is this, this desire or this tendency to really make really long bios. Like I wanna impress them. I wanna tell them all about me and why I'm gonna be their next great success story or whatever. And I feel like just give the necessary information, the relevant information, but keep it simple. I, I, I think that a lot of, for a lot of agents, the bio paragraph is gonna be the paragraph that they're just kind of scanning just to make sure that you are not like
Speaker 2:Read it at all. I mean the thing
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:If they get to your pitch and they're excited about your pitch, they'll probably skip the bio, read the pages and then when they decide they wanna call you to sign you up, then they'll read the bio.
Speaker 1:I think that's probably what happens almost every time.
Speaker 2:Honestly. It's, it's, it doesn't matter if the story is amazing. And if you grab them with that pitch and they're like, where are the pages then? It doesn't matter. What's in your bio. Yeah. So yeah. Um, unless it's relevant to the story, unless it's really relevant to
Speaker 1:The story. Absolutely. No. Think of the bio as like it's the, the icing on the cake. It is that little bit that's going to let the agent know that you are a reasonable professional likable person and that's it. They just wanna know like a little bit about the person they might be entering into business with.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay. Um, last topic. So that's, that's the query letter and finding the agents who to send it to when to send it, what happens next. So there is really, really great questions, um, on this topic. Uh, one person asks if an agent request sample pages with the query, should I include the glossary as it includes non-English words in the story? Or should I just send the story pages? I think that is such an interesting question. Um, and such a obviously kind of a unique situation, I'm gonna say, sure, it's not gonna hurt to send the glossary. Um, but I would also in the response email, I would explain why, what it is and why you're sending it. Here are the pages you requested. Also FYI, I am attaching the glossary of non-English words that are used in the manuscript, something to that effect.
Speaker 2:And I would say, I think if you have non-English words in your text, they should be generally speaking, uh, sparingly used and used within context. That may be a glossary isn't necessary for the reader, but if they are necessary for, for to get the context of your sample, then I would say, yes, include the glossary. As long as it's brief, if it's gonna be a 15 page glossary, um, I think you will scare off an agent. Um, if you add something like that.
Speaker 1:Hmm.
Speaker 2:I, I think it depends. I, I don't know what genre we're talking about. If
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:If, if every other word requires a glossary, I, I would look at that very closely. If that's necessary to the writing, if it's a nonfiction about something that's requires a different language, that's different, but if we're talking fiction and you have a lot of words that require a glossary because they're not decipherable without, within the context, I would look at that. I,
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know
Speaker 1:If, I mean as a reader, I, no, there have been a number of books that I've read that the, the non-English words you could get a grasp for what they meant in the context of the story, which I absolutely agree is very important because you don't wanna turn off readers who are not familiar with these language. Um, at the same time, then having a glossary in the back, uh, as just a little hated, like you kind of understood what it meant, but here's the specifics. I, I enjoy that as a reader. Um, but it is, but would you want that in? But I would use sparingly.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Unless you're talking about like an epic fantasy where you're creating a whole new language and there's a glossary that's required, like I've read some fantasy books where there's like a huge glossary of terms and names and family trees and stuff like that. So that's different again. But
Speaker 1:Yeah, well I think, and I can't think of what the book was, but something I've read here in the last couple years where one of the main characters was Mexican and their family owned like a Mexican bakery. And so there were different, uh, treats they were talked about in the course of the story. And so of course, as a reader, I get that like, this is a pastry of some sort. And so it doesn't harm at all my understanding of what's happening in the story. But then in the back, it's specifically said, here is what this pastry is. And I, I enjoyed that. I, I think that's a nice cultural detail.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm<affirmative> no, I agree. I just worry that in a query, it could turn an agent off if there's too much extra stuff, maybe even a note, um, that it's intended to have a glossary at the back of the book or something like that. Yeah. I think use your best judgment.<laugh> use your best judgment. I mean, yeah. Honestly, with everything to do with a query, use your best judgment. If it's gonna be a 15 page added document to a query letter, I would say no, and look at why you need that much for a sample. Um, but yeah, use your best judgment. And just remember that agents have so little time and so many times they're scanning a query letter, so don't give them a reason to say no by sending too much stuff that they would have to sift through to get to your really cool story.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm<affirmative> yeah. Fair enough. Fair enough. Um, if after querying multiple potential agents, you do get an offer of representation. Hooray. Do you inform all of the other agents you queried who have not yet responded to you, or do you just inform the other agents who have asked for a manuscript review and are still in the midst of reviewing it?
Speaker 2:So this is an interesting question. And congratulations, if, and when you get to this point that you're in this situation, um, I have heard differing things from different agents, but I always err on the side of caution and respect. And I mean, if it's, if it, you sent out a query and it was six months ago and you haven't heard, I probably wouldn't bother if you sent out a full manuscript or even a, a partial manuscript to an agent, I would definitely follow up and say, so, and so has, uh, well not so, and so an agent I queried has expressed interest. I have given them, um, I've let them know I'm, I've queried other people or other people are reading. Um, and I have promised not to give my answer until I hear from everybody. Um, and just let them know. And you may hear back from most of them, you may hear back from none of them, but you, you did your job in giving them an opportunity to read. And a lot of times they'll read it immediately and come back and say, um, yes, I'm interested or thank you for letting me know, but I'm gonna let, let this one pass. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So
Speaker 2:That was my Ramly way of answering that.
Speaker 1:No, I think that was a great answer. Um, I am, I am just gonna say yes. Uh, I agree. I think that, um, definitely if you have sent a partial or full to someone who has requested it, you should absolutely let them know that someone has offered representation and give them time to come back and respond. Um, because the last, you don't want someone to take a week to read your manuscript and then be like, oh, I already, you know, signed with somebody else that just, you know, wouldn't, um,
Speaker 2:It's yeah, it's terribly disrespectful. And it is a very small industry and a lot of agents are friends and they talk and you don't want to<laugh>, you don't wanna insult somebody and, you know, find out their best friend is who you sign with. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, it's just, you just don't want and, and be respectful. It is a business. Be respectful, give them a chance. Um, and just, don't be in such a quick rush to sign with somebody. And I think that if somebody does offer representation and you say, um, thank you. I would like to talk to the other agents or give them a chance to weigh in mm-hmm<affirmative> they will respect you for that. Yeah. Because they, then they know that you would do that for them as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it's always, as far as contacting agents that you have sent the query letter to, but have not heard anything from, um, I think this is kind of a case by case basis. If it's been, like you said, if it's been a long time and you haven't heard anything, I don't really think you need to follow up or let them know. Um, that said if your like top dream agent. So actually this is what happened to me, um, is that I had queried, I don't know, like I said, 10, 12, 15 agents. Um, I received offers of representation from two within a fairly short period of time. And I had not yet heard back from Jill, who was the agent that I wanted the most. Um, and so even though I had not heard back from her, I did send a, Hey, I sent this query, um, just wanted to let you know that I've received an offer of representation would love to know your thoughts before I proceed or whatever. I said, something to that effect. Um, and she, within a day said, I am interested, let me read it. I'll get back to you this weekend. Um, and of course I ended up signing with her. So even if you have not heard from someone, um, if you've received offer of representation, you certainly can and are allowed to nudge those other agents that you sent the query letter to. And maybe you will hear something and maybe you won't, but it never hurts to try
Speaker 2:It. It absolutely never hurts. And I would suggest that when you do contact anybody that you've queried or sent your, um, full or partial to put right in the subject line yes. Offer of representation pending or offer received so that they, they see it right off the top and you will get a response if they think it's just a generic nudge of, oh, I haven't heard from you in a week, six weeks, whatever. Um, they may not see it. Yes. So always, always put it right there in the subject line.
Speaker 1:That is a great, great point. Um, similar question, what happens if you query multiple agents and more than one want to represent you? What happens? You get the champagne and you celebrate<laugh>.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say, do a happy dance, but you could do that with the champagne. Don't spell it.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, of course this is, this is a wonderful, wonderful thing. If you have multiple agents that are interested in you and your work, um, so take a moment to congratulate yourself. Um, and this did happen to me. I had three, I had offers from three agents, um, and what happens? I had a phone call with each one. Uh, and during that phone call, we talked about what they liked about the book, what they would possibly consider changing or how they would revise the book. We talked about their vision for, uh, selling the book to a publisher. Did they have any specific publishers in mind? What kind of, um, uh, you know, are they seeing it as something to go to the top five? Are they seeing it as something for a small, independent press, a, a local press? I mean, just what's their vision. What do they think are, is possible with this book? Um, and then, I mean, really it's as much as anything, just kind of a, getting to know you phone call and getting a vibe for how they work, do they, how quickly do they typically respond? Are they, uh, the sort of agent that edits really heavy or are they the sort of agent that kind of stands back and prefers to let your editor do most of the, the editing work? Um, and what do you like, what sort of person are you looking to work with? And you have the phone calls and maybe sometimes you might, they might put you in contact with some of their authors. Um, and so you can either email or depending on the situation, you might have a phone call with some authors that they represent to get a feel for how they do business and what they think. And then you get to decide, and then you make your decision.
Speaker 2:It's, it's a terrifying, daunting thing, but it's what a wonderful problem to have. Yeah, but I mean, if I can suggest anything, if this happens to you, um, besides the congratulations take deep breaths, really, really, really think about what you want from your agent. Um, and I think agent query, was it agent query.com or, or query tracker. One of them has a really comprehensive list of questions to ask. You can, you can jot down a bunch of questions you wanna ask when you talk to the agent and get a real feel for them. And it is above all a relationship. It's a business relationship, but it's still a relationship you wanna click with that person. If there is anything that's a red flag, write it down and think about why it's a red flag, um, gut counts for a lot in this business. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and what makes you feel good? And what, what do you feel like the person is genuinely super excited about your book and, and has a list of editors they wanna send it to right away. And are they super excited and what does it need, or are there red flags that just make you uncomfortable? Like they wanna do things with your book that you're not cool with, or just any red flags think about them and really, really think after your phone call or your emails or whatever, um, how you feel about that conversation that you had, because it, it counts for a lot and there's so much writing on it that I know the first instinct is to say yes, please represent me. I can't wait for you to sell my book, but it really is an important relationship. Um, so just give it the time and space that it needs to land in your head and, and make the right decision for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. And I agree that intuition and kind of listening to your gut is for me, probably the biggest factor. I mean, yes, there's a lot of important things. Um, as far as their, their network connections and their, you know, how they conduct business, um, and you should take everything into consideration, but I know for me, when I was making the decision, kind of the, the biggest question that I recall asking myself was which of these agents would, I feel most comfortable calling up if something was wrong. Um, and I think that that's, that's a, a big thing. Who are you comfortable enough talking to that if something is not going right in your career with your book, who do you wanna be on the other line when you call them up?
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally. And, and who sees you as, as an equal partner? You, the last thing you wanna do, and I know it's really hard with, with the way that querying and publishing works. It's hard not to put agents on a pedestal, but your, your partners in this together, and you want them to be your advocate in all things, and you want an equal partner. Well, maybe not even equal because you're the one you're the creator, right? But you, you don't want to ever feel like you can't talk to them or you're intimidated, or you don't wanna bother them. It's, you know, it is a partnership and they're there for you to be your advocate. They're your agent, mm-hmm,<affirmative>, um, in the true sense of the words. So really, really think about the conversation that you have and what, what they see for you in your book and how, and like you say, how comfortable you are with them. Um, if things do go south, cuz that's when you really need them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, next question. Can you have more than one agent? Yes. In some situations, um, the, I guess the only situation that I can really think of in which a writer would have more than one agent is if you were a writer who is writing in multiple genres or in multiple age groups and your agent does not represent the other type of work that you do. So you get an agent, for example, you get an agent with a middle grade novel, and then a couple years go by and you would also like to write a romance. Maybe your agent does not represent romance. In that case, you would also seek out an agent to represent your romance career
Speaker 2:After discussing it with your first agent. So that that's
Speaker 1:A good point. That's a great point. You don't wanna do anything, you know, behind their back, so to speak.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. I mean, and the thing is some, some agents that represent a middle grade and you're writing middle grade and you say, oh, I wanna write adult romance might say, you know what? I've never represented it, but I love you. And I love your writing. I'd love to sell something for you. Let's talk about it. Mm-hmm<affirmative> you never know, but whatever, whatever you do, if you have an agent, you have to consult them first. Um, before you go outside that relationship and there might be something in your contract that says as much as well. Yeah. Cause most agencies you'll have a contract with them as well as a contract with your publishing house. So that's something you consider too, of course, a different agent for any film or TV or, or that's something else altogether
Speaker 1:As well. Yeah. Um, what was I gonna add that? Oh, and then it's not unheard of that. If you have an agent who is in a, a larger agency, there might be another agent within that agency who represents the new type of writing that you wanna move into. So they, it might be just a case of, you know, you're staying with this agent, but they're gonna bring in this second agent to then help, you know, with the, the new genre. Last question, our very last question for this episode. And it was one that came up a few times in our questions. At what point do you move on from querying a project? So opposite end of the, the situational possibilities here, you've been querying for a year, two years, or maybe just a couple months. I don't know. It doesn't seem to be going anywhere. How do you know or when do you decide to move on from that project?
Speaker 2:I feel uniquely qualified to answer this question because I've been in that situation a few times. Um, sometimes the timing isn't right for that book sometimes who knows, who knows why you get rejected for, for various things. But I think when you've exhausted,<laugh> pretty much any legit agents in your genre, then it's time to write a new book. Well, hopefully by then you will have written a new book. Um, because I think the best answer to being out in the query trenches and getting your mind off it is to write something else and give your, your brain something else to focus on. But if it's just not happening and it's done, it's done. I mean, the, the thing is it's hard to say goodbye to a project, but it's not always goodbye either. Um, it might just be the wrong time. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you my own story. Um, I have a book it's called bird brain and I first wrote it in 2016 and I queried on it in 2016 and I got no takers. Didn't sell the book. Um, and it's coming out in 2024. So I managed to turn it around and bring it back from the dead and sold it, um, several years later. So I would consider goodbye for now, but it may not be a dead book, but if it's not getting picked up by somebody, um, look at your query first. Um, but if it's, if it's truly not getting any takers, then it's time to move on. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and I mean, not every book sells, not every book finds an agent, not every book sells.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, and we haven't really touched much today on what to do when you're querying. Um, but as you just mentioned, you should absolutely be starting the next book. Uh, it's a great distraction for one. Um, but then also once you have exhausted the possibilities for the current book that you're querying, and if it's not going anywhere, hopefully by that point, you have something else coming up in the pipeline that you're, you know, just as in love with, and just as excited about to, you know, start the process over again. So don't give up, it doesn't mean that you're, you're giving up on your career or, or even on this book. Um, and gosh, I would absolutely recommend if you were not a regular listener to this podcast, go back, listen to some episodes. We always ask, you know, what is your origin story? When we talk to authors and hearing, we've heard so many authors who say, you know, I queried a book, it went nowhere, but later I came back to it or, you know, now that book is gonna be my fifth book instead of my first or, um, I realize that I learned so much from that book, but it just wasn't right. Uh, and so I moved on and now I have this new thing coming out. I mean, everybody has a different story and a different path. Um, but you hear over and over and over again that even people who just went through months or years, manuscript, manuscript, after manuscript of rejection, they kept at it and they started the next book and they started the next book. And of course, by the time they are being guests on this podcast, they have a book coming out or possibly an entire writing career. So work on the next book don't give up.
Speaker 2:And, and I can't remember if I mentioned it in episode 34. Um, but I logged over a thousand rejections before I got my first book deal. Woo. A thousand, a thousand rejections. So keep at it, keep at it because I mean, the difference between a non-published author and a published author is just one. Yes. Yeah. Um, that's all it takes. So if you're stubborn like me, hopefully you don't have to go through a thousand injections
Speaker 1:<laugh> but you're not alone there
Speaker 2:<laugh> but no, I'm not alone. And that's one of the things I love about listening to the different episodes too, is those origin stories. And, and it's, you know, I, I hate to say that misery loves company, but you're not alone if you're getting rejected and you're not alone, if you're feeling despondent and you're not alone, if, if you feel like it's never gonna happen, but you want it to happen so badly that you're willing to put in the work, because if you do put in the work, it will happen. Yeah. It will happen. Yeah. So, yeah.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well that is it. Uh, so many amazing questions. Thank you to everybody who submitted your questions. I think we got to most of them, if we didn't get to yours, my apologies. Um, but I very much hope that this episode has been really helpful for a lot of people.
Speaker 2:I hope so, too. And, and just a reminder that all those resources are linked from our linked tree off our Instagram profile. Um, lots of great resources there. And the Jane Friedman, um, website link is kind of a one stop shop for querying. And it's a great place to start, um, and get a good foundation for what needs to be in there and what you can do.
Speaker 1:Yeah,
Speaker 2:Just a reminder.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, Joanne, thank you so much for joining me today and thank you just for everything that you do for us here on the happy writer podcast.
Speaker 2:Oh my great pleasure.
Speaker 1:Let's see, coming up next week, I will be chatting with Karen McManus about her newest young adult suspense. Nothing more to tell if you were enjoying these conversations, please subscribe and follow us on Instagram at Marissa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast. And you can follow Joanne on Instagram at Joanne underscore levy underscore until next time stay healthy, stay cozy and whatever life throws at you today. I hope that now you're feeling a little bit happier.
