Query Advice from Literary Agent Lucinda Halpern: Get Signed: Find an Agent, Land a Book Deal, and Become a Published Author

In this week’s episode Marissa chats with literary agent, coach, and now author, Lucinda Halpern, about her new book, GET SIGNED: FIND AN AGENT, LAND A BOOK DEAL, AND BECOME A PUBLISHED AUTHOR. Also discussed in this jam-packed episode: the varied job of representing authors, why the query letter is the most important document a writer will ever create, the three keys to getting an agent and a subsequent book deal (and how you may not need all three), BIG ideas, how agents also have to face rejection, common errors made in query letters, the reminder that agents are humans, and so much more!

Show notes: 

As mentioned in the episode, check out this Free gift for our listeners from Lucinda.

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Transcript

[00:10] Marissa : Hello and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers more books to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I am your host, Marissa Meyer. Thank you for joining me today. One thing making me happy, which was not the thing I originally planned on talking about, but you know what makes me really happy? Running water and, like, modern plumbing. And I say this because this morning we woke up and our water wasn't working in our house for we still don't actually know, as of this moment, doing this recording. My husband is still trying to figure out why did the water shut off. Luckily, he's a really handy guy, and I have every confidence that by the time this recording is over, the water will be back. But it is one of those things that when you don't have it, suddenly you realize how much you take it for granted. How am I going to fill my coffee pot? How am I going to wash my hands and fill my water bottle? And all the things that just feel second nature. So bravo to whatever brilliant mind came up with running water and modern plumbing. It's a convenience that should never be taken for granted. I am, of course, also so happy to be talking to today's guest. She is a literary agent and the founder of Lucinda Literary and has represented numerous bestselling authors. She has also taught classes and coaching programs to hundreds of writers worldwide, and those classes have become the inspiration for her new book. The book is get signed, find an agent, land a book deal, and become a published author, which came out earlier this month. Please welcome Lucinda Halpern.

[02:04] Lucinda: Hello. Hello. I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was now speaking.

[02:09] Marissa : It's your turn. You're here.

[02:10] Lucinda: My turn. So I'm just thinking, wow, what effusive energy. I feel immediately joyful just hearing your voice. So I can see why this podcast is so popular.

[02:22] Marissa : Well, thank you.

[02:24] Lucinda: Yeah, I just want to bottle it up and give it to all writers who are feeling like they have writer's block or they're having trouble getting an agent.

[02:32] Marissa : I appreciate that. No, we definitely take the happy part of this podcast seriously. I feel like I am just kind of a naturally. What's abulliant? Is that the right word person?

[02:46] Lucinda: Definitely.

[02:49] Marissa : Life is good and I have a good attitude. But of course there are pitfalls and there are storms that we come across once in a while, and so we try to cover all of our bases. But generally speaking, writing is awesome. My career is awesome. I'm so thrilled to get to talk to cool authors and cool agents like you. And I hope that our listeners enjoy hearing all of my enthusiasm and also get really enthusiastic. Thank you.

[03:19] Lucinda: Wonderful.

[03:20] Marissa : So, Lucinda, the first thing I want to talk about is your origin story. How did you become an agent? Did you always know you wanted to work with books? How did you get here?

[03:32] Lucinda: I mean, when there is a will, there is a way. I think that lovers of literature, english majors, were all told a pretty discouraging story that you cannot make a livelihood doing the thing you love, which is absolutely untrue, as this book attempts to prove. And like so many who entered the world of publishing, I wanted to be a writer. Know, I was journaling in my diary. I was submitting short stories to the New Yorker. I was writing poetry and trying to get it published. And at a point, Marissa, I felt like I've got a business interest or talent. And what I really love is managing the careers of artists. And I'm attracted to artists first and foremost, even more so than the books that they write. And there's got to be a way to be in publishing in that way and to make a living doing what I love. And it turns out that job is called a literary agent. So that's how I entered. And how many of us entered as aspiring creative writers?

[04:36] Marissa : Oh, how interesting. This is, of course, a nonfiction book that just came out. Is this your first published novel, or did you get some creative writing out into the world before?

[04:47] Lucinda: So this is my first published book. I hope it's written like a novel.

[04:53] Marissa : But it's definitely, of course, not a novel.

[04:57] Lucinda: No. I wanted, maybe that's a takeaway of this. Everyone's writing should read like an engrossing novel. So if I pulled that off for you, Marissa, I am thrilled. But this is a how to book. It is intended to be really actionable, and it is absolutely my first book, hopefully the first in more to come, because this covers the pitch. But there's, of course, the book proposal and the marketing and the second book deal and the career of an author. So there's so many other books that are needed in the space for writers.

[05:33] Marissa : Yeah. So how long have you been an agent?

[05:36] Lucinda: I have been representing authors for over a decade now. It's, I think, have been about twelve years, and we've innovated. So I'm the founder of a literary agency based in New York called Lucindo Literary, and we've pivoted several times over from first doing online marketing and publicity for authors at the time when I sort of figured out, this is going to be big, this is going to be important. I better learn how to do this so I can coach authors in doing it for their greatest chances of success. And that turned out to be a pretty good idea because then pretty shortly thereafter, it became all about online marketing in terms of making books successful. Years later, we started a speaking bureau because our authors often have speaking careers that they want out of their books. They didn't have a way to generate paid speaking gigs. And I thought, this is a service we can provide. It's just an extension of the advocacy and the negotiation we already do as agents. Why can't we be in the speaking business? And it turned out that that also was something that was needed. And then just as you touched upon more recently, I've been doing these courses and coaching, which is really my true love, based on all of the principles and the strategies and the secrets I've learned from representing authors. So that's sort of the nuts and bolts. It's been author representation and author care all along, but it's had all of these different layers to it, which has been really wonderfully enriching.

[07:14] Marissa : I love that. And I think it's so important because it's really easy when you're an aspiring writer to think of the query letter and getting an agent as the be all, end all. That is the goal that we are working toward. And yet, once you get there, you realize there's actually a lot more. It's a full career. You want to have multiple books published, ideally over the course of your career. And now you're thinking about social media, marketing, promotion, your platform. It's much more than just getting the agent signing that first book deal. So it sounds like your book really is very expansive in many different angles that authors can and should be thinking about in their career.

[08:06] Lucinda: I want to help authors on their whole journey because the book is really just one part of the package or the career or the strategy for your business. So it's just really important to be 360 in our service of authors.

[08:22] Marissa : Yeah. All right, well, that is a perfect segue. Would you please tell listeners a little bit more, what is this book about? I know it's a little obvious from the title, but give us a little bit more in depth. What is get signed about? What can authors expect from it?

[08:38] Lucinda: Thank you. I like the way you've actually put that. What you can expect from it is actually a great way that it's very meta, that question, because it's sort of how we as agents are looking at your pitch letter and evaluating your book. What can we expect from it. So get signed is a method. It's a short, simple, accessible book, or it's intended to be. And it's a method for getting signed by a literary agent and getting a book deal right. So getting signed in both of those respects. What it actually is about, though, is every book is actually about something else, is about writing the foundation for a great book. And by a great book, I mean a book that pierces someone's world or heart, or changes their thinking, or their behavior, or lingers in their bones, and is timeless in the way that publishers want books to be. They want books to sell on the backlist, as the word is, for years to come, long after the book is just out. So this book is really about what it takes to create a great book. And that begins with a big idea. That's the language we use. There are a lot of ideas that are pretty small, and mainly new writers come to us and their idea is not big enough yet. And that's our role as agents to help you develop that. So it's that method which begins with a big idea, then getting into figuring out who your reader really is. One of the things I say in the book is a book for everyone, is a book for no one. So how can you actually pinpoint who that reader is that needs your book? Make that case to an agent. We have a bit about categorizing and genre and comps really confusing mysteries to most new writers because there's so much online information. Very few who actually write that information are in the trenches of bookselling. So there are a lot of myths to bust in publishing, a lot of peeling back the curtain that needs to be done. And this book is supposed to be a contribution to that effort. There's a whole marketing section, and in that marketing section, which again, is such a pain point for new writers who don't want to be self promoters, they want to be creatives, or they're really excited about marketing. But what they'll learn from the book is the marketing you're thinking of is not the marketing we're thinking of. It's a kind of distinct science or formula that agents and publishers are evaluating. To see that your book has legs and has an audience, into the thousands and thousands. And then at the end of all of that fun stuff, we get into the query letter, the pitch, how you take all of these things you've learned in part one of the book and apply them in a short document that is actually the most important document that you will actually create in your book process. And why is that? Because a pitch is what gets you into a conversation with one individual. And if you can't get in a conversation with one individual, you can't get into a conversation with thousands of readers. So that pitch really has to sing. And it likewise becomes how publishers are categorizing your book to the financial powers that be to take that risk, financial risk to the salespeople who are going to be pitching your book, to Amazon and Barnes and Noble and all the rest. And finally, last but not least, how this book is going to be presented to readers who will potentially buy it. So everything begins with the pitch, and that's sort of where we end in finding the right partner and developing the right pitch.

[12:36] Marissa : I really appreciate that the book kind of saves the pitch and the query letter for the end, because I feel like when we think about getting an agent, we think about taking this next step in our career and our publishing dreams. That's where everyone goes straight to, is, well, I have to write a query letter. How do I write a query letter? What makes a great query letter? And yet, when I'm presenting and I'm meeting with aspiring writers, and they ask me, how do I get an agent? How do I get published? The go to response, the number one thing, is, well, first you have to write a great book. First you have to write something people actually want to read. And that can almost get glossed over sometimes when we're so focused on, but how do I pitch the book that I've written?

[13:22] Lucinda: That is so true. And there are so many people we meet in our community who haven't even finished the book or even have the idea for the pitch or the book, and they're already worried about how long is too long for my word count? How can I identify the right genre? What does a comp mean? And I'm like, whoa, we are way into the granularity of this before we figured out what your book is or what it does, what it contributes, what is new about it, and that is sort of where we have to begin. I talk in the book about the three keys, which for us at lucid literary, are a big idea, an irresistible platform, or fantastic writing. But you don't have to have all three of these things. You only need two of the three. And what we often find for nonfiction writers in particular is that that big idea in that platform does all that it needs to do in bringing attention and bringing buyers to your book and getting the word out. You can always be paired with an excellent writer or coach or editor. So there's so much sort of not pressure, but so much weight and value on those first two aspects of the platform and the idea. Great writing, on the other hand, for fiction writers and memoirs, does everything it needs to just in that one category, right? So if you're a great writer, you have to worry less about the platform. You have to worry less about the idea. So there are these different, it's not all about great writing, which is interesting, but it is about a great book, which is a bit different.

[15:08] Marissa : No, I think that's a really valid point. And I know everyone's a critic, right? We all have books that we point to and we're like, why is this one so popular? This author, whatever, loves adverbs or is so redundant or blah, blah, blah. But, you know, it's popular because that writer was able to tell a great story or really convey information in a way that was really interesting and entertaining. And I agree with you. I think that we writers especially, we can laud the values of great prose, but I don't think that that's necessarily what sells books.

[15:45] Lucinda: Well, I'm glad you raised that because I think I should revise and say that great writing is not ubiquitously received. Right. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's subjective. So writing that you may find terrific, I may find trite, vice versa. So it's sort of like I can't, as any one expert say, this is well written or this is poorly written because it just is going to resonate differently with different receivers. And I think that that's actually a very encouraging thing. So it's not like you don't need great writing, but more, what does great writing even mean? And I think that, again with get signed, what I'm trying to say is focus less on am I a great writer? And more about, is this something that hasn't been said before? Is this book doing something that hasn't been done before? So it's almost like we're asking ourselves the wrong questions as writers.

[16:45] Marissa : Okay, so that is a good point to take me to my next question, because I feel like there's this constant debate about what makes something marketable. When is a book right for the current market? Is this commercial? Is this sellable? And we writers, we're constantly trying to figure out, well, how do I take advantage of the things that are popular and trendy and make sure that my book is going to fit with the current market but also not write to trends? It's such a hard thing for writers to figure out where do you stand on that?

[17:27] Lucinda: So my simple advice is let the market inspire you, but don't let it confine you. So I honor the vision of my authors, first and foremost. One of the best compliments that I've received is like, thank you so much for honoring my vision. I've heard that over and over the years. It's not like, thank you for getting me that six figure book deal. It's like, thank you for honoring what I wanted to do with this book. And often that's not trendy or marketable. Right. But the kinds of authors I want to work with are so sort of like bullish in a very nice way. They're so convinced. They're what I call in the book crusaders. They are convinced. They are self believing in what their book is and trying to do, and the audience who needs the book. And they will be collaborative. They will be inspired by what the market needs and is hungry for and what's popular, but they won't let it. Fundamentally, they won't try to squeeze it into what the market appetite is of that moment. So don't make the mistake of being in the ivory tower or going on your writers retreat and being thrilled with your memoir and then sending it out to agents without doing a speck of research as to what is selling, what's popular, what's in the conversation, what are people talking about? Because there's usually a pivot, or if you're writing a novel, a character that you can add, like, one layer that might make that character more so called trendy, but that's even a bad word for it. But more enticing, or more current, more contemporary. That's just a matter of research. That's not a matter of bending what it is you want to do with your art.

[19:21] Marissa : So you've brought up the idea or this concept of every book or the books that agents are going to be most interested in as being founded on a big idea. How can a writer know if their idea is big enough?

[19:37] Lucinda: Yeah, so that whole first chapter has a lot of great exercises for how to figure that out, but in broad strokes, you want to aim for something that is timely and timeless, meaning just we were talking about before, it has that conversational appeal, that contemporary feel, but it has sort of like universal themes that have been proven to stand the test of time, the underdog, the coming of age, the love and loss, the transformation. We have a whole array of them in the book that we point to. But you want to figure out, am I striking that balance well? Am I doing both of those things. Another way to look at that, that maybe writers have heard before is, is there something universal here, but with a unique perspective, a unique point of view? These are the things, everything. This is what editors want, like, plain and simple. They just want something that has a popular context, like is sort of proven to have appeal and to be in the zeitgeist, but has something new and distinct that a writer is lending to it, which could just be as simple as the person's identity or the person's voice and telling, or it could be as complicated as the story itself. So there are a lot of different ways to think about that.

[21:05] Marissa : What would you recommend? If there's an author who's listening and maybe they're getting ready to query, they love the book that they've written, they're very passionate about, but they're not sure that it's marketable or commercial or that it's based on a big idea. Would you recommend they kind of go back to the start and rework it? Should they send it out and see what happens? Where would you recommend?

[21:33] Lucinda: Well, there's nothing wrong with sending it out. I mean, people are very concerned that publishing is just like a one shot deal. And I only get one chance, and you're not incorrect, that you should take the very best swing you can, right. And be as prepared as you can be. But with that said, if you want to go test the market and reception from agents, go to a small list, get that feedback, and maybe they will tell you, this is too niche. This is just not something that has a wide audience. That kind of constructive feedback is vital. I would say, in case that's feeling abstract, those people who are listening to this, you can then push further. There's nothing wrong with asking a follow up question, so long as it's respectful. And that's one of the things I talk about and get signed. It's like different tactics for following up that aren't going to piss people off. One of them, one of the biggest ones I recommend is how can you ask a follow up question that elicits specific and constructive feedback? So if they say, well, it's really too niche, you could say something like, okay, I understand it's an issue of the idea. Would XYZ pivot work? Or you could say, if you're just testing it out, you're already in a conversation. They've said, no, that's a conversation. You've gotten a response like, you've reached the first milestone, okay. Because they were interested enough to take the time to respond. So you could ask something like that. You could ask, okay, I understand that it's an issue of idea. Is it also an issue of writing? So you can try to get at coming back to the three keys. There's usually more than one reason they'rejecting it. So you want to actually get past the code and you want to get into the meat of what exactly the issues were so that you can be corrective. That was sort of like, I'm giving you very tactical answers for how to figure out a big idea. But another thing that we really believe in, and I don't see authors do enough, is reverse engineering or simply working backwards. So if you're looking at a comparative title as a novelist, you're looking on Amazon, or you're thinking about a book that you've read, can you figure out how it is that this author did something that seemed big, meaning new and different, meaning know? Yeah. There's no other way but saying new and different over new books that are publishing. They just don't sound boring. Do not. There is no opportunity to be boring in this market. Is that a horrible thing to say, Marissa? You tell.

[24:22] Marissa : No, not at it. A lot of it comes back to being subjective and how different readers are going to read a pitch or read the back cover of a novel, and someone might be like, oh, that's so cliche and predictable. And someone else might be, oh, this is exactly the book that I've been looking for. And it is interesting, especially, like, with genre fiction. And you think of, like, we'll take romance as an example, that some people just say, oh, it's so formulaic, it's so predictable. But then there are readers who crave romance, who are very avid readers, who love the genre. But I think coming back to what you've been saying, you can fit into a genre, use the tropes, speak to what the readers want, but also, like you say, what can you do that is a little different?

[25:16] Lucinda: How can you add your little unique twist? And again, it could be as simple as creating, like, a character quirk and referencing that in your pitch so that someone's like, oh, I know, someone who is a cat lover. I'm thinking of something it should probably be even quirkier than think of. And again, you have no further to look than Netflix to see also what is appealing to the masses there. Right. And it's usually just, as you said, a trope that we've seen that's proven to be popular with some tiny little twist to it. Of course, for those genres the writing does need to hold up. However you're defining great writing, it does need to find its place in someone's heart. And yes, it could be a character quirk. It could be a plot twist. Incredibly important for fiction, right? Incredibly important that you indicate that there's going to be a twist of some kind, which is an error that many novelists make when they're pitching. Yeah. So there are lots of ways to inject something unique into a popular type of book.

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[29:15] Lucinda: So I'm really a big believer in getting a few things I did this for get signed. I had an actual reader's committee, and the readers committee did not include my mother or my husband. These are people who I knew. They were students. They were clients. They were editors and agents. These were people who would be the reader for know or the people who would be recommending it. And I created like, a Google form so that no one felt pressure know. A, they could do it anonymously. B they could remove the whole part where they belabor how they're going to be complimentary and hey, Lucinda, I just love the book, blah, blah, blah. No, I didn't want any of that. I wanted to point them directly to what might not be working and also identify what the strengths were that they might want to see expanded or might want to see more of. And that tool worked really beautifully in giving me trusted feedback, kicking the tires, and also simplifying the editing process so that I wasn't looking at, like 15 different markups and opinions. I was looking at trends that kept emerging. And this is completely how agents work. I mean, that's the other kind of beauty of this book, if I do say so myself. It's like you're getting into the head of an agent, because what we are doing is what you are doing. We are out there pitching your books that we believe in so much that we took our time and our love and our sweat, blood, and tears before we got paid to do so. To pitch your books to a cold audience. Right? Like, we may have relationships with publishers, but we're putting ourselves up for Rejection, much in the same way you are. And so this book is supposed to be the shortcuts that we use as agents that you can use yourself before you have an agent. So that's a slight segue.

[31:06] Marissa : Yeah.

[31:07] Lucinda: Bring me back here. Mercy. I feel like I didn't.

[31:09] Marissa : No, I think that's such a great point and one that I honestly never really thought of before. It's like, I wonder if my agent, does she feel sad when we get rejected?

[31:18] Lucinda: Oh, my gosh, do we ever? I always say to my authors, I'm like, I'm going to go on this roller roaster coaster ride, so you don't have to.

[31:27] Marissa : We've already been on it, right?

[31:31] Lucinda: Yes. For me, I'm turning those ideas around 24/7 when I'm editing something when I'm selling something, I cannot unstick it, unglue it from my brain. I am so much in the trenches with you. Yeah. Just fun fact about agents. We're humans.

[31:51] Marissa : All right? So of course we have to talk a little bit about the query letter, which is the biggest fear, I think, that so many authors have. They've written the book, they've spent months or years writing and revising and perfecting their manuscript, and now it all hinges on whether or not they can sell it in less than a page, a one page document. It's so terrifying.

[32:17] Lucinda: Yes.

[32:18] Marissa : What are maybe some of your top do's and don'ts? Tips and tricks? Obviously your book is going to have lots of great information, but if you could just give us a sample. What are some things that mistakes that you see authors making?

[32:34] Lucinda: Yeah, I mean, what's fun is there are so many different errors that I'm revealing, hopefully in a loving way in this book. These are based on real life examples and there are sample query letters in this book by first time authors who got signed, which I think is possibly the most destructive point. But there's some big do's and don'ts. I don't think. I don't know if these are ones that your listeners have heard before. So the first is very basic to me. Don't slush agents. Don't land in the slush pile because you slushed agents. Meaning if you're going to query tracker or agent query or manuscript wish list, keep in mind a few things that a, a lot of those profiles are outdated. Like, I'm not looking at mine regularly, it's probably not been updated. And yours, I probably should, but someone else is sort of like taking from our website what they see and then putting it onto their third party site. To me, that's not a trusted publishing resource whatsoever. What's trusted is publishers Marketplace. That's an industry database that every agent, editor, coach, whatever uses and that actually gives direct email addresses. Marissa, I'm going to make so many enemies on these podcasts. Just saying, like the most basic thing known to man, which is find a direct email address. I'm going to make so many enemies because suddenly everyone's inboxes are going to know more stuffed and no one's going through the submissions portal. But honestly, you are diminishing your chances if you are blind flushing agents and if you're going to 50 at a time and if you haven't, because, and I get it, you're probably so exasperated and urgent to find the right person. Maybe you're not doing that research of kind of combing through their websites to see what are their interests or even their personal interests. Like, where can I connect with this person and find that point of connection and make it personal in your letter? It's like, I interviewed my husband for the book, which is funny. He's a literary agent and he will sign things 25 years into his career from out of the slush pile, because an author begins with, I read XYZ and it really influenced this book, and here's why. I think we're a fit. And the same thing was said in the 20 interviews I conducted for the book with agents and editors and authors. It's about, like, what is that? Win win. And if that's not evident to us in the first couple of lines, we're probably out the door because we've got a lot of other emails to read. Another thing I don't want to see you do is the overly long synopsis. So less is definitely more, I'd say, in any email communication. But in the query letter itself. Right. If you leave us wanting more, this is a lot like a dating game, by the way. I make a lot of those analogies in the book, but if you leave us wanting more, we will ask you for more information. Whereas if you give us too much, you're risking that we lose the important details or we scan over, we get bored, we get lost. So I'd be really brief. And remember, a query letter is not a synopsis. A synopsis is what happens in the book. A query letter is, why should we care? Very different objectives. And, yeah, I mean, I think there's an art and a science to query letters, but hopefully I've broken that down really simplistically in the book so that people feel they can actually follow through with it.

[36:13] Marissa : Yeah, no, those are already really great tips. I know. When I queried my agent, she represented Scott Westerfeld, who wrote the Uglies trilogy. And in my opening line, I commented on how much I loved his book and now know have written a Sci-Fi novel of my. And, like, to this day, she's like, yeah, it was that. It was that line that you love Scott Westerfeld, who I represented, that caught my interest. And so I think there's a lot to be said of that, of having a personal connection and recognizing like, you are an agent and you're a gatekeeper. And I'm terrified to be sending this. But also, you're a human, and we both love books and we have something in common.

[36:54] Lucinda: Exactly. Yeah. I'm so glad you raised that, too, because there's also this thought about, like, agents are up on a pedestal and they're sort of wizard of Oz people. No, we are humans. We are at your level. And, in fact, agents work for writers. We are in the business of wanting and finding new talent. So this notion that we don't want to be bothered by your email or even that your email was received and we just didn't think you were any good, it's so untrue, and it's so damaging to a writer to feel that way that I really want to correct that with this book. We want you. It's not you, it's your pitch. I mean, the book was almost called. The first chapter was almost called that. It's not you. It's your pitch. It's not a problem of your writing if we haven't even requested your writing because we couldn't get through to why this would sell thousands and thousands of copies, which is what publishers look for. We're humans. You probably called in someone's spam filter. The person probably had a child emergency that day, or you were talking about a plumbing emergency. It's like, what email did you miss? Because it was just sent at the wrong moment. Here's a little weird hack or tip that I've been saying in interviews, which is when you think about the time to capture an agent's attention, a lot of writers will think, well, shouldn't hit that agent over the holidays or a holiday weekend or a Sunday night. I would say the opposite. I think that agents, the flurry in their inboxes die down and then they have that moment. At least I do. I'm watching some movie with my children on a Sunday night. I get bored. I'm flipping into my email. Oh, there's a query. It just popped up. I'm going to check this out. And you have a better chance reaching me then or during that dead week between Christmas and New Year's than you do on a Monday morning when I'm coming into chaos. Right. So think strategically about timing. The other thing is, follow up is a whole other piece we could talk about or not talk about, but be in that agent's sphere of visibility in a few ways. So not just in their slush pile and in their, you know, as Marissa, we offer regular know. So I see the same writers come and I start to know their faces, and I remember what they're working on, and we start to become friends. And isn't that amazing? That we just get on Zooms together and I get to know them, and they get the opportunity to have feedback from an agent, rather than just like, wait and wish and hope that someone will get back to them about this labor of love. So there are events in person or on Zoom. There's social media. You could be following an agent that you like. You'd be interacting with that person, sending a little love letter via DM. You could be linked to them on LinkedIn. It's like if we're seeing you in a few areas, we really do come to recognize you in our inbox. It's such basic psychology. But I think people find it really surprising that they should do this.

[40:01] Marissa : Yeah, no, that's a really great point. And it kind of comes back to the basics of marketing, that the more times somebody sees a product or sees a book cover or hears that author's name, then suddenly your brain starts to pick up on it and be like, maybe I should check this out. No, that's a great point. All right, I've got one last question before we move on to our bonus round. I feel like when it comes to pitches and query letters, one of the things we get told all the time is to have great voice. The thing that everyone says, I know it when I see it. But how do you describe it? Tell me a little bit about your thoughts on voice and how an author can ensure that they actually have it.

[40:50] Lucinda: What a great question. I'm loving these questions you're asking. Very tough ones. Because, again, voices.

[40:56] Marissa : Sorry, I don't try to ask tough questions.

[40:57] Lucinda: No, I mean, no, these are great. No, I think it's a great question to ask. There's just so much mystery bloked on all these topics. So I think that voice is going to be particular to the genre of the book, the recipient. It's going to hit everyone differently. But if you want a model or a formula, like some road to follow, social media is going to be your best friend. Because in get signed, I talk about your vco, and that stands for your voice, your content, and your offering. Social media helps you hone that, meaning you start to pay attention. A lot of this game is about paying attention. You start to pay attention to what people are engaging with, what they're responding to. So it could be that you're posting a lot of things about your family, and people really like that personal side of you. Or people might like, as that's sort of more proven, your author's journey, what your writing routine looks like, or the writing block that you stumbled on today or the inspiration. People like that sort of vulnerable human journey and can find bookish people by doing that. Maybe you're humorous, maybe you're gritty, maybe you're touching. There's so many different personalities that you can sort of try on using social media and see where your audience is engaging and see what they want from you. So that's really going to be your best, what I call proof of concept for a publisher because they are looking to authors to be the expert on their audiences, and you're actually best positioned to advocate for your work. If you can say, you know what I've noticed when I'm on Twitter, people really love this particular piece. They can't get enough of this, and they keep asking me this question. So that's something. When I'm in an interview with an author, deciding whether I take that person on, I'll say, what's the question that you're asked most in these events you do or on social media? And that's my way of eliciting what do readers come to you for uniquely? What do they want from you? Because your book should be answering that question that you're regularly asked.

[43:21] Marissa : All right. I love that. And I would not have thought about using social media to kind of hone in on one unique voice, but it absolutely makes a lot of sense.

[43:31] Lucinda: Good.

[43:32] Marissa : And it's also nice because then, like you say, you can kind of try on these different personas until you find the one that really fits you and fits the career you're hoping to establish.

[43:40] Lucinda: Right. There's no way to get it wrong. Right. This is like your playing field. If we start to look at marketing as much more of like a playground and less so a beauty pageant, I think that there's a lot of richness that comes from that. So it's worth paying attention to.

[43:57] Marissa : All right, Lucinda, are you ready for our bonus round?

[44:02] Lucinda: Doesn't love a bonus round. What are you going to do?

[44:04] Marissa : What are you going to do? Well, it's coming anyway. What book makes you happy?

[44:11] Lucinda: It's so hard not to talk about the book that you're reading at the moment. So I'll just start with that because the book I'm reading at the moment makes me so happy. But then I might go back and tell you about the manuscript that I just read that I'm going to take on. That also makes me so happy. So the book I'm reading, that's out on shelves, the Rachel incident. And it might also be interesting to readers, like why one picks up a book in the first place. For this reason, the author of Tomorrow, tomorrow and tomorrow blurbed this book. And I thought, whoa, that's a big deal. She is, like, the hottest author in publishing, and she's blurbing this book by an author I've never heard of. And this package looks really fun. There's a really great picture on it, and it just gets twistier and twistier and more interesting. And I'm rooting myself more and more caring about these characters. Need to see where it goes. I think it's a lot of fun. Before I was reading that, I was reading a manuscript by a writer, which is a novel, sort of a women's fiction novel. Romance meets a mystery. And I thought, oh, that's really fun. There's a mystery component and there's a romance, and it's well written and funny. And I think two aspects of fiction in particular, but literature generally cannot be oversold enough, which is humor. And. Right, these, that's sort of the order of the day. Like, if you cannot take us on an escape of some kind, then we will probably turn to Netflix or Instagram because they will provide that escape for us. Right. So no one really wants to enter something that's super dark and heavy at this particular post pandemic moment that we're in. They want something with levity and with humor and with heart. Doesn't mean you can't grapple with big themes. And maybe there's sort of a darker plot, but I think there's got to be that quality of escape. And for me, if you throw some humor in with heart or with something heart rending, that's always the best formula. If I can laugh and I can cry, right? That's what everyone wants in the novel.

[46:24] Marissa : Yeah, that's a great point, even for us writers, too. It's nice to have the balance. What are you working on next?

[46:34] Lucinda: That's so funny. I've been asked that these days. Well, I'm a glutton for punishment, so I'd love to sell my next book. It's just been the most meta enriching has made me. I think maybe my clients, hopefully they'll say the same, maybe they'll say differently, made me a better agent because I have this compassion from the author side of the table and, whoa, how eye opening that has been, and made the great mistake of not hiring an agent. I've been my own agent, which is exactly what get signed would tell you not to do. So I want to write more books based on what I hear from you. And your listeners on what they want and other writers out there. And I want to be speaking sort of beating the drum for a publishing world that's more inclusive, that's less mysterious, that's more accessible. I mean, that's sort of what my agency has always been about. It's like, let's just be straightforward and be honest with one another. And if you're not breaking through, here's why, rather than holding back. One of the interviews in my book said, rejection is a gift, and he was so right. I want to be doing that. I want to be building out more courses for writers. I think we've gotten such great response on those, just demystifying this world of publishing. And of course, I want to be selling books because that's what I was born to do. I want to be editing and selling books. So I hope to meet some of your listeners, the next rising talent. And yeah, this has just been so much fun.

[48:13] Marissa : Awesome. Lastly, where can people find you?

[48:17] Lucinda: Yeah, so my agency is lucindaliterary.com. It's my company name. And the site for the book is getsignedbook.com. And that, of course, has lots of bonuses and free resources, and it has ways to meet with me and ways to take our courses and all sorts of things. So those are the two places I would recommend lucindaliterary.com and getsignedbook.com. And of course, I'm all over social trying to do what I'm encouraging writers to do and practice what I preach at Lucinda Halpern. So, yeah, come watch me make a fool of myself on social media.

[48:57] Marissa : Speaking of bonuses and free gifts, you actually sent over a link for a free gift for our listeners, happy writer listeners. Do you want to tell quickly what that is? And then we're going to link to it in our show notes.

[49:13] Lucinda: Oh, wonderful. So that's a workbook of sorts. That's a companion to get signed. But you don't need to have ordered the book to make use of it. It can be useful in its own right, and it tackles things the book doesn't like, productivity, some degree of submission organization. It does have sample query letters in it, different ones that we don't show in the book. So that's a really great tool. And I believe there's like a recorded class and there are takeaways. So it's kind of like a little kit that we're thinking of as an author training just to get you feeling a little more confident about your query letter and your submission.

[49:56] Marissa : I love that. It is so appreciated. I know our listeners are going to love it. So again, that is a free gift provided by Lucinda and Lucinda Literary and we will have that link available in our show notes. So I hope everyone will check it out. Lucinda, thank you so much for joining me today.

[50:15] Lucinda: Thank you. That was such a blast. And I just love the concept of the happy writer and so let's be in that business together, making writers happy.

[50:24] Marissa : Oh my gosh. Deal. I'm in.

[50:27] Lucinda: Good.

[50:28] Marissa : Great readers and writers. I definitely hope you will check out, get signed, find an agent, land a book deal and become a published author. It is available now. Of course, we encourage you to support your local indie bookstore. If you don't have a local indie, you can also check out our affiliate store@bookshop.org slash shop slash Marissa Meyer next week I'm going to be chatting with John Shu about his middle grade novel Inverse louder than hunger. If you're enjoying these conversations, please subscribe and follow us on Instagram at Marissa Meyer, author and at Happy Writer podcast. Until next time, stay inspired, keep writing, and whatever life throws at you today, like maybe waking up with no water in your house, I hope that now you are feeling a little bit happier.