Quick Series Releases and YA Fantasy with Bethanie Finger: More Than Life

In this week’s episode Marissa chats with debut author and podcaster Bethanie Finger about her YA historical fantasy, MORE THAN LIFE. Also discussed in this episode: expedited series releases, being a pantser, even when worldbuilding, finding the magic in editing, short chapters, the effectiveness of writing exercises and sprints, the Prince Kai Fan Pod, the importance of setting boundaries, taking breaks, and asking for help, and so much more.

Show notes: 

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Transcript

[00:10] Marissa: Hello. Hello and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers more books to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I am your host, Marissa Meyer. Thank you for joining me. One thing making me happy is that last week we finally got to announce a really super special edition of my novel heartless that is coming out this spring from lit. Joy and I have had some really cool editions of my books come out over the years, and I always feel so grateful for these publishers and some of these imprints just making the coolest stuff. But I honestly think this might be my favorite of all time so far. It's going to be annotated by me, so I got to go back through the story and write all of my thoughts about research and characters and all of these things. And then Litjoy has hired just the most incredibly talented artists and they have created illustrated end sheets and these beautiful tip ins depicting different scenes throughout the book. And they are stunning. And every time they send one to me, it just takes my breath away. So we are going to be revealing a lot of that artwork over the next month. So keep an eye on my instagram feed and then we can all swoon together and I'll let you know when it is available to order, which I think is going to be just around the corner. I am also so happy to be talking to today's guest. She holds a master's degree in library and information sciences and has worked in bookshops and public libraries and is currently a school librarian. Many of our listeners will likely recognize her as the founder and host of the Prince Kai fan Pod and her debut novel, more than life, came out last month. Please welcome Bethany Finger.

[02:18] Bethanie: Hi.

[02:19] Marissa: Hi, Bethanie. It is so fun and exciting and wonderful to have you. What a change in circumstances this is.

[02:28] Bethanie: It's very like fateful coming full circle.

[02:33] Marissa: For those who don't know why I say that. Bethany has interviewed me multiple times about my writing and my books, and I am just over the moon and ecstatic to get to now interview you about your debut novel. How have things been going?

[02:50] Bethanie: Good. They've been wonderful. A lot of celebratory deadlines for book three have been conflicting. My joy, right now for book three.

[03:02] Marissa: Usually when book one comes out, they're trying to finish up book two at the same time. But you are that far ahead. Are you on like a really tight publishing schedule?

[03:15] Bethanie: Yes and no. So I'm currently working on edits for book three. They're actually due tomorrow, so I will be working on those right when we get done.

[03:24] Marissa: Thank you for taking time for us.

[03:27] Bethanie: When I pitched the book to my publishers, I had already finished book two and most of book three, and they were talking about, like, a three to five year plan for when the books could come out. And I had asked, do I have any say in when the books come out? And she's like, it's your book. When do you want it to come out? And I told her, there's this indie author I adore. Her name is Km Shea, and she releases her books, like, three, four months after the other. And she's like, you can do whatever you want. It's your book. So, because as a reader, I get anxiety waiting two years and five years and six years. Book two, more than legend, comes out March twelveth, and book three, more than love, comes out April 9. So all three books will be out before summer.

[04:13] Marissa: Holy. March twelveth. That's like a week away from this going on. I had no idea. I assumed you were, like, on a year schedule like everybody else.

[04:23] Bethanie: No, I got really lucky that I get to have so much input since I talked directly to my publisher. And when I pitched that idea to her, I could see on her face that she understood why I wanted to do that. But she also wasn't sure if it was going to be the best choice. But she was like, if you're good with deadlines, then we will make it work. And I was like, okay, I can do deadlines.

[04:46] Marissa: Yeah. So, so far, I know it's maybe a little early to tell, but are you happy with that decision, or are you wishing, like, you would have given yourself a little bit more room?

[04:55] Bethanie: I think I'm just such an impatient person that I'm very happy. I committed to that because especially with the first book ending on such a big cliffhanger, I've had a lot of feedback from readers, even people in my family messaging me like, you're not going to make me wait a year, right? That cliffhanger is not very nice if you're going to make us wait a year or two. But as a reader, I love finishing a book. But sometimes if you do have to wait two years, three years, four years for the next book to come out, by the time that next book comes out, you've sort of lost some of that emotional attachment you had. I'm thinking particularly of the elixir series by Hilary Duff, because the end of the second book was great, and then there was a three year gap between the end of the book, the second book, and the end of the third book. And so as a reader, the shorter time in between books has always been my preference. But at the same time, that puts a lot of pressure and expectations on authors to really hone that craft into such a tight schedule.

[05:59] Marissa: Yeah.

[06:00] Bethanie: But since I had already written book two and most of book three when I got my contract, it kind of worked out perfectly for me because I had plenty of.

[06:12] Marissa: I mean, I think that's an excellent point, because I agree that for readers, of course, we would love to have all of our favorite series on shortened schedules. I mean, we'd love them all to come out the same day, like, let's Netflix binge this. But for writers, that's usually not plausible. But to be so far ahead on your writing before the first book even sold, to be able to do it that way, I think that is so smart, and I love how that's working out. Yeah.

[06:43] Bethanie: And I got lucky because I am such a fast writer, depending on the circumstances. More than life was my 2022 nano project, and by the time I met you in February, I was already on book three.

[06:57] Marissa: So that's like three months.

[07:00] Bethanie: Yes. I was not working at the time, so I had plenty of extra space in my schedule to really let myself explore being a full time writer. And even now, I spend a good portion of my time when I'm away from my day job just focusing on writing. For me, I've always found joy in writing. It's been an experience that I love to have, and when I sit down and I write, it's something that brings me happiness, no matter what deadline is looming over me. So it doesn't feel like too much pressure to just keep writing, because I'm going to be doing that in my free time anyways.

[07:40] Marissa: No, I mean, I love that. Of course you and I are cut from the same cloth. As far as writing is fun, it's enjoyable. It's something that does bring us joy. And I know not every writer can quite as easily tap into that all the time, but you're definitely preaching to the choir here. I am always happiest when I can just immerse myself in a story. Yeah.

[08:04] Bethanie: And I think as a panther, part of it is me wanting to know what's going to happen next because I don't plot things out. So sometimes I don't realize what's happening next until I get to that point, and I get just as impatient trying to figure it out.

[08:18] Marissa: So I've had a whole bunch of things to ask you, and none of them have we covered yet, but I do want to ask, and going back to this, how you had already written book one and book two when the book sold or the series sold. I mean, a lot of authors talk about second book syndrome and how for so many, writing the second book is a lot harder than writing the first book, because now you're under deadline and you have these new outside pressures that you didn't have before in various reasons. Do you think that having that second book written before there was any sort of publishing schedule or contract in place, were you able to kind of skip right over second book syndrome, or did you then encounter third book syndrome, or where's your stance there?

[09:06] Bethanie: Yeah, I definitely encountered third book syndrome. First book and second book were written in, like, three months, so there was no syndrome there. But third book, I kept having these plots that just didn't work. I think I scrapped over 130,000 different words and plot structures from this third book because as a panther, I knew I needed the series to have this wonderful ending, but I had no idea where that ending was going to go. I had multiple different options and different ideas, and I just kept writing each individual one. And this book almost has four or five different versions at this point, whereas book one and two didn't need quite that much revision.

[09:49] Marissa: All right, well, let's backtrack now, because the question that I always like to ask everybody on the podcast is, I want to know your origin story. So here, your first book just came out. Your second book comes out in a week. But before that, what made you want to be a writer? How did you get here?

[10:10] Bethanie: Growing up, I lived in a home where my father was always telling stories, playing music, playing on his guitar, very poorly. And I often found that reading books was a way for me to just entertain myself, even when I was at a young age. And I started writing songs and poetry when I was really young, I think I was, like, five or six when I wrote a song about my dog that died. And I wrote my first full length novel when I was 13. To this day, I'm pretty sure my mama is the only one who's read it, and she assures me it is a masterpiece. But I've always found storytelling to be just something joyful that you can share with the world. I always have ideas that are coming and going and thoughts that I have in my mind. And I think of the creative process as sort of something that is just within me, and it just depends on what my motivation or inspiration is in life, how it becomes a bigger representation of that. And then in terms of authorship. I queried my very first book when I was 17, and so it was 16 years before I finally got a green light. So it's a very long, that is a long process.

[11:36] Marissa: About how many books do you think between the first one and this one?

[11:40] Bethanie: Over 50 projects that were rejected.

[11:44] Marissa: 50 books in 16 years.

[11:46] Bethanie: Well, so to give you some kind of grasp of what it is, my husband calls it the journey of 1000 letters every time I query because I have racked up close to 1000 rejections over the last 16 years.

[12:00] Marissa: Oh my goodness.

[12:03] Bethanie: This book alone got 87 rejections.

[12:06] Marissa: Wow.

[12:08] Bethanie: So being an author has been always been a part of who I am. It just hasn't been something I've been able to share with the world yet.

[12:15] Marissa: Sure. So, of course, so many aspiring writers, I mean, some people are hearing that and it's terrifying to them and they're scared of the idea of receiving so many rejections. And some people will hear it and feel like solidarity, like, yes, I am in the trenches and I've received so many hundreds of rejections. How do you get past that? How do you keep up your optimism and your hope and keep moving forward?

[12:44] Bethanie: A lot of it is sort of fake it till you make it because there were definitely projects that I felt very emotionally passionate about and it was very defeating to get 120 form letters of rejection. But you just have to remind yourself that the people who are looking at these, the publishers and the literary agents that are looking at these, they're also readers, and they might not click with one of your characters. They might not click with a setting. Maybe they're not looking for that style of writing at the moment. Maybe they're oversaturated with that subgenre. So you have to sort of think of it as the right person and the right reader at the right time. There might not be anything wrong with your style or your skill or even your story. It's just you didn't get it into the right hands at the right time. And that can be very difficult because that's part of the querying process, is you don't just send out letters. You research each individual person that you're sending this letter to to make sure that they're a good fit. And then you research to make sure that this might be something they're interested in. And then you wait months and months and months and you get that rejection. And it kind of does feel like after a while, it feels like a reflection of you and your writing. But what I had to remind myself was that I wasn't writing so that a publisher would say that I did a good job. I wasn't writing so that a literary agent would be impressed with me. I was writing because I enjoyed storytelling and I wanted to share my stories with others. And so as long as I focused on my craft and on just waiting for that right story at the right moment, at the right time, the rejections didn't crush me as much as they did in the beginning. And I got older. I think the older I got, the more I understood that everything is going to have its time in place. And sometimes you have to wait for those dreams to come to fruition. Sometimes it's not going to be first try or second book or something like that. I know I had a friend who was like, oh, didn't twilight get, like, 14 rejections? And myself and another writing friend of mine, we were like, oh, what we wouldn't give for 14 rejections.

[14:59] Marissa: Yeah.

[15:00] Bethanie: So it just depends on, honestly, it all comes down to chance, who is reading that book and what are they looking for.

[15:08] Marissa: So now, 50 projects into it, and your first book coming out, do you feel like it's meant to be? Do you feel like there's a reason that this was the one?

[15:20] Bethanie: Yes, I do. I'm a very emotional person. I always have been. Even, I think when I was younger, people thought I would grow out of it, but I never did. This particular project was sort of a grief project that helped me cope with the loss of my father. And I think because I had such an emotional attachment to this story, I fought a lot harder for it than I did any other project that I've ever queried. And I think a lot of my commitment to this story was because of that. I wanted to be able to share it. I wanted to be able to honor that memory I had. And I think when you lose someone that you're really close to, it sort of puts this idea in your mind of what it's like to have a shortened lifespan. It reminds you of life being short, of that you only get one chance. And with my father dying so young and so unexpectedly, a lot of things in my life sort of, sort of changed because of now. I had this idea in my head of, well, maybe my life is going to be short, too. And that transferred into my writing. I took a lot more risks than I usually would in my writing and even in my personal life, I've always wanted a Volkswagen beetle. And for one reason or another, I never had one. So I bought myself one.

[16:44] Marissa: I also drive a beetle. It's the you do?

[16:47] Bethanie: But my husband and I also, we always wanted to travel. He went to the Pacific Northwest when he was younger, and I didn't get to go with him. So we spent our ten year wedding anniversary. We pulled all of our money and resources, and we took a road trip up the Pacific Northwest. I always wanted to go to a concert. I went to see Taylor Swift twice. So there are some things that when you have an emotional connection to what happens in your life, it has a big impact on who you are and the daily decisions that you make. And I think because I was so adamant about living my life with a purpose that became part of getting this.

[17:25] Marissa: Book published, I think that's a really beautiful way of saying that. I think that's really inspirational. It's easy to forget to live life to the fullest. So, no, I think that's really important. But then I also am wondering now, with your immense backlog of manuscripts, do you think you'll go back and revisit any of those?

[17:54] Bethanie: My publisher definitely wants me to. She was very excited when she found out I had so many projects that I had queried. She was like, oh, so you have a lot of projects we can do after this one? And I was like, well, yeah, but I started a new project over Nano, so I have new stuff that we can do as well. And I have a couple of ideas for anthologies that might follow this series as well, and even a couple of spin offs that I have. So as long as my publisher is going to publish them, I will keep writing them.

[18:25] Marissa: I love that. No shortage of ideas. 

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 Marissa: Okay, well, with that, I know we're like more than halfway through this episode. Would you please tell listeners, what is this book more than life about?

[21:20] Bethanie: More than life is about the struggle of the human experience in an ever expanding world. Cordelia is 19, and she unexpectedly loses her father. And because she lives in a historical fantasy world that centers around a naval kingdom, with the loss of her captain father also comes the loss of her title, her inheritance, her status in society. And she is thrust into the world with no skills and no prospects and no money. And she sort of has to find her own way. And in doing so, she discovers who she's meant to be and the power that she has deep within that she never knew existed. And Jaspar, her sort of counterpart, has lived a similar life of loneliness, but for very different reasons. He has been cursed with non existence, and so he's never had the ability to make connections with people or to lay down roots anywhere. And his story centers around learning what it's like to live in a world where he might have the opportunity to be remembered by one person. And it all centers around this mythical island called Quillaris, which her father had died searching for. And Cordelia and Jesspar pick up the journey from where the captain left off and try to finish finding it for him.

[22:52] Marissa: So was it fair to say that this book is very much introducing the world and the characters we're getting a lot of wonderful romance happening here, but in a lot of ways, you are setting us up for what I'm picturing to be a fairly epic quest coming our way. That sound about right?

[23:15] Bethanie: Yes, 100%. And a lot of the romance in the beginning of the book wasn't originally there. In the very first draft, Jaspar and Cordelia had the traditional young couple meets and runs off into the sunset and starts their quest sort of storyline. But I was writing it as a 33 year old grown woman, and I was like, why is she just going to run off with this guy? Just because he's like, yeah, I totally knew your dad. I backtracked, and I was like, okay, well, what if they had met once or twice, and I started writing scenes where they had met once or twice, and I thought, well, that doesn't make any sense, because then everyone in their city would know that her father had this apprentice, and it wouldn't be a surprise, and they would already know each other. And then I thought, well, what if nobody knows him? And that's when I came up with the curse concept. And because of that and all that writing that I got to do, I was able to include almost two stories because we have the first story where we see this beautiful love story unfold, and we get these fun little hints and clues about magic and the bigger world and bigger picture and Polaris. And then we have the second half of the story where we see that, oh, this is actually an adventure where we go on a quest to save something. It just happened a little bit later than what the typical expectation is in young adult literature.

[24:46] Marissa: Yeah, no, and I like that. I like it when books change the expectation, because there's always this part of me that feels like in the publishing industry, the writing world, sometimes genres can get into this groove, and there's tropes for a reason, and there's different structure for a reason. But I love it when someone inverses that or changes it to just show, to just prove like, it can also work this way. Don't be afraid to go out and try something different.

[25:21] Bethanie: And some of it was just convenient. As a panther, I would have these ideas, and I would start writing, and then I would go back and look at something, and I was like, I need something to connect these two pieces. Well, now I end up having four other chapters here or two other chapters there, especially after I had started writing the second book and the third book. And then I got all these ideas for, like, oh, I could add little hints and clues into the beginning of book one, if I make it just a little bit longer. So it is different than the traditional young adult trope. But I have had a lot of joy writing such a long introduction to it and to really get myself to connect with all those characters. And luckily, I've had feedback from some readers that have said that it was actually kind of refreshing to care so much about the characters before we got to that point in the story.

[26:08] Marissa: Yeah, well, and it's very romantic. And then once you start figuring out the curse element, and I don't really know. I mean, we can talk. That's not spoilery, right?

[26:19] Bethanie: It's in the blurb.

[26:20] Marissa: Yeah. So at some point, you start realizing that she is going to forget him. And the tension that that causes as you're watching their relationship develop just kind of adds to that building of romance, which I thought was really well done.

[26:36] Bethanie: Thank you.

[26:38] Marissa: So, world building, you've mentioned that you are a panther, that you figure it out as you go, but we also have the sensation from this book that we've just scratched the surface of this world, and there is so much more to discover. Are you also a panther when it comes to world building, or did you do a lot of world building and figuring out the different locations and magic systems, et cetera, before you started?

[27:08] Bethanie: So I am a pantser in every aspect, even the research process. Like, if I'm writing a scene. So a lot of the world building was based on Ireland and Wales, because that's where my father was. That's where his family was from. And so when I'm writing a scene, I'm like, oh, what would the temperature in Ireland be in June at nighttime? And I would do 20 minutes of research and then go back to writing. Or what was the typical food that they would have for breakfast among the working class versus among the social class? Okay, let me research that. And then I would go back to writing. So even the research process with the world building lent itself to the story, because I would, oh, I wonder what I could use for this sentence. Does that word exist yet? Did they have the word camouflage in the 17 hundreds? Let me look up the etymology. And then 20 minutes of research would give me all these wonderful ideas for world building. And when I went back to the story, that would just kind of come through in my descriptions.

[28:12] Marissa: And then what about revisions? It sounds to me, if I'm interpreting your words correctly, that you really love the drafting process and that you are obviously a very quick pass drafter to be able to write so many books in such a short period of time. How do you feel about revisions?

[28:33] Bethanie: I love editing.

[28:34] Marissa: I love to hear that I get.

[28:38] Bethanie: Some of my best ideas when I am revisiting a story. Even now working on book three, I think my word count was only, like, 60 or something. And I was like, let me go back. And I went back to look at book one and book two, and I found all these ideas that I was like, oh, I could do something with that. I had intended this as a throwaway sentence, but what if I made it into, like, six chapters? So I personally love the editing process. I know some people don't agree with that, but I love the editing process because, well, one, sometimes I read it, and when I'm feeling particularly doubtful, I'm like, you know what? I am a good writer. That's a great scene. And then two, like I said, I just get some of my best ideas when I'm revisiting some of those other scenes and stories that I'm trying to tell.

[29:28] Marissa: Yeah, I agree with that 100%. I know that sometimes I can feel like, because I also always have a lot of projects and ideas that I'm eager to get to. And so there are definitely times when I'm like, oh, I don't want to go back and spend another month or two months or three months on this book. I want to move on to the next thing. However, I completely feel like, for me, the magic of storytelling is largely in that revision stage, and that's when you kind of clear away all the mess and the clutter of the first draft and really start to get to the heart of what is this story I'm trying to tell. This is when the characters get really interesting, when you can hear their voices really speaking to you. So, yeah, I'm on the same wavelength. I love revisions, even though sometimes I get impatient with them. Yeah.

[30:16] Bethanie: And I mean, sometimes revisions, if you're just revising because you finish your second draft or your first draft and you want to do your run through, I feel like maybe that's a little bit less intimidating because you're just writing to write. You're still telling the story, whereas if you're looking at it for the 10th time, maybe that can start to feel, like, a little repetitive. I know for me, I have certain goals no matter what I'm writing. For example, I particularly like short chapters, and I like when chapters have a very good last line to the chapter that makes you want to turn that page. So I know when I'm editing my final drafts, I will control at the end of every chapter, and double check that. That last line just has the impact that I want it to. And that's something fun because I like to put that creativity in. Whereas if I control f to see that I used the word whisper 219 times, now I'm not going to have so much fun, right? Because I have to sort of figure out what other words are there.

[31:15] Marissa: How else can I say this?

[31:16] Bethanie: What else can I do? So it's not so repetitive.

[31:18] Marissa: Yeah. Slight part, I understand.

[31:21] Bethanie: Yeah, that part is more tedious.

[31:23] Marissa: I love that you brought up the short chapters, because I actually have a note here, just like short chapters on my notes, my interview notes today, short chapters with two exclamation points. And that's because I also love short chapters. I love them as a reader and I love them as a writer. And I think for me, it goes back to when I was a kid growing up and reading goosebumps and how the chapters and goosebumps were never more than like two pages long. And it just makes for this automatic page turner vibe. But you don't see that very often in ya. You really don't see it very often in high fantasy. And so reading your book, it very much connected me back with how much I enjoy that. And it has inspired me for my current project to write shorter chapters. Oh, wow. That's amazing. So thank you.

[32:15] Bethanie: I love short chapters. I love when a chapter feels like a scene. I think particularly of. What's a good example? Twilight. Twilight has crazy long chapters, like 40 to 50 pages. And you might have a dozen different events that happen in those one chapters. And as a writer, I really like when it's like, end scene, next. End scene next. Because I feel like if you are the type of person who. You know what, I don't have a lot of time. I can only do two or three chapters. You don't have to worry about ending in the middle of something because you're in the middle of the story, but you're not in the middle of that particular scene, that particular moment. And as a writer, it's great to have, like I said, those last lines I love so much. It would be difficult to do that so frequently if there was only ten to 20 chapters. Whereas when the chapters are only two to five pages long, I can have as many definitive lines as I want to.

[33:13] Marissa: Yeah. No, and I like that. And I like just as, like a general one thing, a pass. Do a pass through your draft when you're getting close to finishing it. Just to look at those last lines, just to make sure that every scene or every chapter ends with something that's going to make the reader want to turn the page, that's going to compel them to keep going in the story. I mean, I think that's a wonderful little tidbit for writers to remember.

[33:41] Bethanie: Yeah, it's a personal preference, but personally, it makes me more connected to my story as well. So that would be cool if somebody else thought it was good, too.

[33:51] Marissa: Yeah, no, I think it's great. I try to do that sometimes. I don't know. When you write a chapter and you're not sure how to end it, sometimes you're just, like, meandering and you're like, oh, maybe I'll mention this about the character, blah, blah, blah. Nine times out of ten, for me, the solution is to delete the last paragraph or two. I was just going to say that. Yeah. And then it's like, boom, there's that perfect line already there. You just wrote a little too far.

[34:22] Bethanie: Yeah, absolutely. I was just going to say that I've definitely done that before, where I'm like, man, this one sentence is really kind of dragging it down. And usually it's a logistical sentence that just gives expository about, I don't know, what they're doing or what they're about to do or something. And it's like, we don't really need that. If I cut this out, then I have that beautiful last line that I want soap badly. I 100% agree. I've definitely done that.

[34:48] Marissa: So you were obviously very prolific, able to write very quickly, and, of course, everyone writes at their own speed. I'm by no means if listeners are hearing this and thinking like, but I can't write a book every two months. Most people can't, and that's okay. But if there's people listening and just wondering, I would love to boost my word count, or I would love to. I have lots of projects I want to tackle this year. How can I be a little bit more productive, get a little bit more writing done? What are some of your strategies?

[35:21] Bethanie: Oh, writing sprints.

[35:23] Marissa: Yes.

[35:23] Bethanie: I love writing sprints 100%. I have a critique partner. Her name is Heather Schneider, and she wrote the chasing cheer duology. And meet me in St. Louis, and she and I will do day long writing sprints. There's a coffee shop we love to go to, and there was one day where we started at the coffee shop, and when it closed, we went to Olive Garden, and then we went to my house, and we were literally sprinting all day. And it's so great because you do just, like, 25 minutes where it's like, I got to type as many words as I possibly can, and then you talk for, like, five minutes, and then you go back to typing. And there's an author named Tracy Wolf who wrote the Crave series, who once said that you can't edit a blank page. And she's right. You can't. So even if you sprint for 20 minutes and you look at what you wrote, and you're like, that might not be very good. It's still something that you've done. It's still an accomplishment. And there might be nothing in there but one sentence that you love, but that's an extra 20 words right there.

[36:20] Marissa: No, I also love this France. And I love the writing dates. Like going out with my writer friends, dedicating an entire day or afternoon to focusing on writing. Get out of the house, get away from other obligations. And just like today, I'm going to pour myself into this story. And it's a beautiful thing. It makes me so happy when I can do that. Me too.

[36:44] Bethanie: I would also say writing exercises help. I know that for myself, when I'm trying to get to know a character better, I will write, I think, a small scene like, okay, well, what's it like? If this person is getting ready for work, what do they do? What are their mannerisms? How does this unfold? And small scenes like that might give you an opportunity to be like, you know, I've just learned this about that character. Let's do a scene from this perspective, or let's do a scene that includes this or writing a different perspective in the chapter. Originally, this book was told in first person narrative with one perspective. And I wrote a scene from Jasper's perspective so I could get to know him a little bit better, and it changed the entire book into a third person narrative with multiple perspectives. So any little tiny writing activity that you can do or exercise that you can do can sometimes generate more motivation.

[37:36] Marissa: As well and kind of unblock things from your mind and your subconscious, too.

[37:41] Bethanie: 100%.

[37:42] Marissa: All right. I do want to save a little bit of time to talk about your podcast, because in addition to being a prolific writer, you are also a prolific podcaster. And I know a lot of people listening probably know you best as the host of the Prince Kai fan pod in which you talk about Marissa Meyer books. So how has that community and that experience of podcasting and talking with other bloggers and other writers, how has that influenced you as a writer?

[38:14] Bethanie: It's definitely given me a community. I don't think I would have searched for on my own, because being a part of a fandom is like being a part of a million friendships at once, even with people you've never met before.

[38:28] Marissa: I love that beautiful idea.

[38:32] Bethanie: When I think of being a writer, it's always about the human experience and sharing that human experience with the world and just hoping that someone else might connect with something in that story. And being a part of fandoms as a reader gives you that same experience, because you get to relate to one another, you get to connect with one another and have moments of clarity where I totally see your point, or actually, I have a different view. Let's talk about it and discuss. And being a part of something that is that diverse, I think can lend itself into writing, because now you have all these different perspectives that you can start to think about when you're writing.

[39:15] Marissa: And then I have to assume that the listeners have been just over the moon excited for you and very supportive. And I know there's lots of people that have been very excited watching you go on this journey and having this book come out.

[39:29] Bethanie: Yes, I've been very blessed with all the support I've received.

[39:32] Marissa: However, on that note, I also wanted to mention that you have decided to take a break from podcasting. Can you tell us a little bit about your reasons for that?

[39:41] Bethanie: So the podcast just finished winter. Took five years, but we finally published them, too. So it took five years, but we finally finished winter, which means we did the first four books, plus the Ferris novella. And so it felt like a good moment to take a small hiatus. And I actually spoke with my Patreon about it first. Currently in my life, in addition to being a new author, I work as a school librarian, but thanks to the teacher shortage, I am also a classroom teacher now, so I teach fourth grade and about 15 hours a week. I also do library work at my school, and because I'm in a classroom, which a librarian is not designed for, I decided to go back to school. And so now I'm getting a bachelor's degree in education. So two jobs plus author, plus student, and then the podcast. So something somewhere had to give. And I actually talked to my patreon from the podcast about it for quite a few different weeks, trying to figure out do I take a hiatus? Do I only do an episode every month? Do I come back with a different book? I knew I didn't want to quit altogether because I love podcasting and I love getting to connect with people and to share joy about literature and reading and characters and development and so the general idea was I would take a brief hiatus from the chapter discussion, and I would do, like, small bonus episodes here and there. And then in the summer when I'm on break from school, then I can come back to the weekly discussion in the podcast when we start. Stars above.

[41:27] Marissa: I am really proud of you, actually, for making this decision, because it is hard. It is so hard to recognize when we have too much on our plate. And as we talked briefly before we started recording, you and I are both overachievers. And it's so easy just to get into this thought. Like, I can do it all. I can do it all. I can do it all. And we forget that the sacrifice that we're making is our own personal health, our well being, our loved ones. Like you say, something always has to give. And yeah, I think it makes sense that sometimes you have to take a break from something, even if you love it, to focus on other things that you love. Yeah.

[42:13] Bethanie: And it's hard to set those boundaries in place because you don't want to give anything up. Part of it is ego. You don't want to admit defeat. But part of it is also, you're doing these things because you love doing them and because they bring you joy. And the sacrifice is that there's not enough hours in the day. And that's the part that's hard because you want to do it and you're not given that opportunity because we don't all have the same amount of hours in the day. My mother is constantly telling me that I don't have as many hours in the day as Taylor Swift. And I need to recognize that in myself.

[42:49] Marissa: Yeah, no, it is hard. It's really hard to set those boundaries. For me. I have started thinking about my life and my obligations in terms of a week instead of a day. And so I can recognize, like, okay, maybe I can't write and do homeschooling and record a podcast interview and read and get in a good workout and make dinner and have a clean house today. But over the course of a week, I can find a balance that's going to work there. But you definitely have periods of time where I also just had a new book come out. And so there's times when it's like, okay, something's going to have to give for this week. The house is going to be a disaster for this. We're not going to eat wholesome meals. We're going to have to do some ordering out or whatever. And you just kind of have to recognize that that's life.

[43:47] Bethanie: And sometimes it helps if you have a good support system, which it seems like you do as well. I'm very fortunate in the partner that I've chosen because a lot of times we say that marriage isn't always 50 50. Sometimes it's 80 20, because sometimes one person has a little bit more going on and they need that extra help. So, for example, my publisher emailed me on Monday. Hey, really sorry, but we need the edits back for more than life. Here they are. It was more than love. More than love. Here they are. Sorry, we were supposed to get these to you a week ago. We need them by Wednesday night. And I was like, that's only two days.

[44:29] Marissa: Yeah.

[44:29] Bethanie: And I got really lucky because I told my husband and he was like, okay, I got you. I'll take care of the house. I'll walk the dogs. I'll take care of dinner. You just focus on your writing. And so I'm really lucky that I have a good support system that can kind of back me up when I need that extra help.

[44:44] Marissa: Yeah, no, I agree so much. And I also have a really great husband who's willing to take things on when I need him to, and grandparents around and all of that. I find that the trickiest part is asking for help when I need it, which I'm not always great about, although I feel like I have gotten better over the years. But that's like, people are willing and wanting to help, but they don't always know how.

[45:12] Bethanie: I think it's hard, too if you're a prudence. I think it's hard if you're a prudence, because in your mind, no one is going to do it as well as you can.

[45:22] Marissa: Yeah.

[45:23] Bethanie: So you're like, oh, I appreciate the help, but if I want it done right, I got to do it myself. And sometimes you do have to say, you know what, it's okay if you fold the towels differently.

[45:34] Marissa: It's fine.

[45:35] Bethanie: At least they're washed and put in the know.

[45:38] Marissa: Yes. No, absolutely. And that's, of course, a lesson that prudents had to learn, too. Just because you would do it doesn't make it wrong. All right, Bethany, are you ready for our bonus round?

[45:49] Bethanie: I'm nervous, but yes, I'm ready.

[45:53] Marissa: What book makes you happy?

[45:56] Bethanie: Something blue by Emily Giffin.

[45:59] Marissa: What are you working on next? I mean, we know you're in book three, but after that, what do you.

[46:04] Bethanie: Think I am working on?

[46:06] Marissa: A spinoff of the series. A standalone or another series?

[46:11] Bethanie: A duology.

[46:12] Marissa: Ooh, fun. Duologies. Are fun. And lastly, where can people find you?

[46:19] Bethanie: You can find me everywhere at Bethany Finger, author.

[46:22] Marissa: Awesome. Bethany, this was such a joy to get to talk to you. And congratulations on this book.

[46:27] Bethanie: Thank you. I appreciate it so much. I still kind of can't believe that you read it. That's so amazing to me.

[46:34] Marissa: Of course we read it. You have done so much to support me in my career over the years. I'm really thrilled that I could read the book and have you on. And, oh, before I forget, I almost forgot. You've been gracious enough to offer a copy of the book. Yes, happy writer listeners, we forgot about our giveaway. We forgot about our giveaway here. We're talking about it now. So for people who are interested and would like to win a copy of more than life, we will have that posted today sometime on social media. Anything else that you want to say about that?

[47:16] Bethanie: So I designed bookmarks and stickers that I will include in the giveaway. Plus, it'll be a signed copy, of course. And my husband got me these little gold stickers that say autographed by author. So it'll have one of the gold stickers on it, too.

[47:30] Marissa: Fancy. Yeah. All right, so check that out. It'll be posted on the happy writer Instagram feed.

[47:38] Bethanie: Thank you.

[47:39] Marissa: Thank you, readers. Definitely check out more than life. It is available now, and the sequel, more than legend, is coming out like tomorrow, practically. Not soon. Like really soon. Of course, we encourage you to support your local indie bookstore. If you don't have a local indie, you can check out our affiliate store@bookshop.org, slash shop Slash Marissamire. Don't forget about our merchandise on Etsy Instagram and tpublic. Next week, I will be chatting with John Shu about his powerful novel Inverse louder than hunger. If you're enjoying these conversations, please subscribe and follow us on Instagram at Marissamyer author and at Happy Writer podcast. Until next time, stay inspired, keep writing, and whatever life throws at you today, I hope that now you're feeling a little bit happier.