Marissa chats with Stephanie Garber about her bestselling Caraval Trilogy, as well as persevering through lots of rejection and using Pinterest to inspire lush imagery and descriptive details. (And also one teeny, tiny hint about the Rumor Project.)
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa chats with Stephanie Garber about her bestselling Caraval Trilogy, as well as persevering through lots of rejection and using Pinterest to inspire lush imagery and descriptive details. (And also one teeny, tiny hint about the Rumor Project.)
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa Meyer: 0:06
there. Hello, and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers more books to enjoy and help authors find more joy in their writing. I am your host, Marissa Mayer. Thank you so much for joining me today. If you haven't done so yet. Please do go fill out the survey. You can find it at marissa Mayer dot com slash podcast. I'm gonna be using all of your input in answers to help me decide how I can make this podcast better for you guys. One thing that is making me happy this week is it. Evidently, my voice is the color of bright fuchsia pink with a little bit of coral mixed into it. Ah, atl east. According to one reader that I met recently, who has sinister Poesia, which is a phenomenon I very recently come to learn about in which some people have ah sensory experience based on different types of stimulation on bears, lots of different things that can mean and ways it can present itself. For this reader, she sees sounds as various colors on. And so she heard me speaking and actually made a beautiful little piece of art, um, out of the using the colors of my voice, which is one of the most interesting and unique gifts that I've ever gotten from a reader. And I thought that was really cool and so interesting. I'll post a picture of it on Instagram if you would like to see the color of Marissa Mayer, his voice. Um and, of course, something that is making me very happy today is to get to talk Teoh, today's guest she is happens to be one of the guests that when I asked you guys, who do you want me to have on the show? She was at the top of your request lists. S I'm guessing a lot of you are gonna be really happy to hear from her as well. She is the author of the very Popular Number one best selling Karevoll trilogy, which includes Carib All Legendary and Book three Finale, which just came out in paperback last week. Ah, and I know you all want to hear what she is working on next. I will do my best to get her to give up some secrets. Please Welcome to the show a Stephanie Garber. Hello, I'm just laughing so hard about the secret. I gonna try. Stephanie. I'm gonna try. How are you? Oh, I am so good. And I'm I'm so excited to be here, and I just loved your
Stephanie Garber: 2:43
introduction. Um, I loved hearing about the synesthesia and your voice because I think synesthesia is one of the most I have it. I don't have one of the really cool kinds where I see colors, but I do have a form of synesthesia, and I think it's also fascinating.
Marissa Meyer: 2:59
I had no idea. I know that in your, um, terrible Scarlett kind of has a form of synesthesia, which is why I thought it would be really appropriate thing for me to talk about for my happy thing today. I didn't know that. You have it to What is What do you How do you have synesthesia? Yeah, okay. I always forget the name. And I actually didn't know until
Stephanie Garber: 3:20
I wrote Scarlett. And then I started looking into some missed Eva. I have I want to say it's called. It's something that has a word spatial in it. It's how we see like, um, that I'm trying to do hand motions, but that's really not gonna work on a pod. Cats, Um, I seem up the calendar as like, I have two calendars in my head that are like fixed locations in time like there's a year calendar. And it is like the way a visually see it is like a fixed location, like all the years of history. And then, like, the yearly calendar is like this oval in my head. So every day has like a fixed location in time in like space, not in time. So it's like I see and it's
Marissa Meyer: 3:58
like I forget, but it it is a form of synesthesia, which I'll take it. Yeah, and so, yeah, so I think I'm trying to visualize your oval. Are all of the dates, like, in order around the oval or they'll kind of scattered randomly. So the oval is like
Stephanie Garber: 4:15
the months, so it's like December is always at the bottom. It's like December is like the bottom, like it would be like six on a clock, Um, and then January is to the left of it, and it goes up circular from there like clockwise. So January, for some reason, is like a clock on it and then the then the dates air like inside of the dates are like normal calendar wise inside of the square. That is like January, February and so on. But my months are very like a moves along. And this, like, weird oval. Yeah.
Marissa Meyer: 4:50
So cool. I was surprised. So getting ready. And for this podcast when I knew that I was gonna have you on. And you're, of course so popular and so beloved. And so I actually solicited questions from readers before talking to you, which is the first time I've done that for this podcast. So that was kind of fun. Um, but I was surprised how many of the readers wanted to know about Scarlet and her synesthesia. I came up a lot in the questions. Um, is that is your having it kind of What inspired Scarlett? Wow. Okay, that's so fascinating when it came up so much, um, I, you know, is one of the first
Stephanie Garber: 5:28
things I knew about Scarlet is a character. When I started writing, um, what's the second chapter and care about? Because I was I was
Marissa Meyer: 5:36
just thinking I don't know if it came up from mine, cause I didn't
Stephanie Garber: 5:39
know I had synesthesia until after I wrote
Marissa Meyer: 5:41
Scarlett. But it was just the idea. Yeah, I didn't
Stephanie Garber: 5:45
know. And then I looked it up and I was
Marissa Meyer: 5:46
like, Wow, there's so many types of synesthesia. This is so fun.
Stephanie Garber: 5:51
Um, And when I looked, when I was creating Scarlett like, she wanted to go to care about so much And, you know, I was just thinking about, like, those things that we want, like those things that we want the actually, you know, the things that would bring us the most joy, like going to Disneyland or, you know, traveling to Europe or whatever that Big Big Heart wants is. And I was just thinking that, like she wanted it so much, she saw her feelings and colors like it was just these bright pops of color where she like that was the best way to express it. Like it wasn't It wasn't a word that she could put the emotion to. It was like her feelings were just like Bergstein kind of like fireworks.
Marissa Meyer: 6:30
That is so cool. I really I mean, I loved reading that about her and the descriptions that you used to tie color to emotion like I never seen that before, but it felt so real and kind of, uh, brought the setting toe life through her experiences so strongly. Oh, thank you. And now I feel like we've kind of jumped the gun because God have got on a tangent already for readers who aren't familiar, could you please? Why don't you tell us? What is this series about? Okay, um, so the terrible Siri's starts with
Stephanie Garber: 7:09
care about which is the first book. And it is about two sisters who grew up on a secluded island under kind of a tyrannical father, And they've always wanted to attend care about which is a once a year traveling. So, um, and it's shrouded in mystery, so they know it goes to a different place every year. And it's said to be magical that some people say it's not really magical. It's Justin Illusion on, and it's sort of this like game. And when you inter care Valley girl told that everything is just a game like don't get swept too far away. But then, as my characters get to participate in care a bowel, they begin to wonder if it
Marissa Meyer: 7:50
is just a
Stephanie Garber: 7:50
game or if it Israel, because the entire game is also trying to convince you it's riel. Eso. When I wrote the book, like my best way to describe it is, I wanted it to feel like a Bozz Lierman movie meets of Florence and the Machine
Marissa Meyer: 8:04
Song. So it's very colorful
Stephanie Garber: 8:09
and descriptive slightly over the top. And there's a sister story and lots of romance and magic. Eso they're terrible is the first book on it follows one sister, Legendary is the sequel it follows. Another sister on. The finale brings both sisters like the completion of both of their stories.
Marissa Meyer: 8:30
I'm glad you bring up this idea that, um, you wanted it to feel kind of over the top. As faras, the imagery goes, because it is, um, it's so lush. It's one of those books that just kind of envelopes you with the details that you put in on DSO. I love hearing that that was something we're really going after very intentionally, um, and and actually, one of the questions that I received from on Instagram Ray to a um, they actually wanted to know what are some of your tips for creating such vivid imagery. Who? Um So it was so
Stephanie Garber: 9:09
funny cause when I first wrote care of how I thought I was being really descriptive and I signed with an agent and she's like, Oh, no, you need to take this further. Um, and I The thing that really, really helped me the most I feel like this isn't gonna be like anything super secret. Ever
Marissa Meyer: 9:24
inventive is Pinterest do use Pinterest room. I love Pinterest. Yes, Yeah, I feel like when it's
Stephanie Garber: 9:34
my favorite thing because it doesn't feel like working when you're penning just beautiful images. Um but to it's so helpful for me to visualize eso I will spend I'll spend a lot of time just scouring Pinterest. Um, and a lot of if you look at my Pinterest boards, you'll see a lot of images from the book eso that really helps me. And then I think also just kind of having, like, I like to start, you know, with not just being like this is the book. What I'm writing like this is what it's about, Like a game I would like to write like these are the feelings I want to achieve. So with care of all it really like I did. I did tell myself I wanted something that was over the top. I wanted something super descriptive so that I kind of was giving myself the permission
Marissa Meyer: 10:17
to lean into do it.
Stephanie Garber: 10:18
Um, and so when I would write anything, I took it a little further than I thought I needed to go because I feel like it's so easy to get caught up and like, Oh, this is how you're supposed to write. Some people don't like adjectives, which is very valid for those people if they don't like them. But I wanted to give myself permission to, like, really go there with the descriptions. Um, and
Marissa Meyer: 10:38
so Pinterest was really helpful. Um, and then I think also just
Stephanie Garber: 10:42
reading other descriptive books like then my circus, Um, another Siri's I read right before or as I was reading care about, um I think I read it before. And then I reread it was the splintered Siri's by G. Howard, which is set fun. Alison Wonderland retailing and her descriptions air really, really great. So I think for me it's like seeing how other people do it. Um like I feel like I constantly need to be riveting or I forget
Marissa Meyer: 11:09
how to write. So those are some of my tips. I love you brought up Alice in a G. Howard Siri's because I got some pretty intense Alice vibes from Karevoll, um, to the point where I started almost like having this, like, fan cross over in my head. And it was like, you know, legend could be the Hatter and, you know, just starlet could be Alice and she's chasing after her sister, the White Rabbit, which could just be because I I have been surrounded with Alice in Wonderland my whole life. Um, was was Dallas Dallas play of role at all in the creation of this, or is that just me? I love Alice, so I don't think it was like it wasn't one of
Stephanie Garber: 11:51
my intentional like things that I like, put a pin in it. And I was like, I'm going for this. But I definitely like you like I love Alice. I loved heartless. I love the world. You create a bear in the way you just like, dove into all these things. Um and so I would think like I was definitely influenced by my love of just like this, you know, falling into
Marissa Meyer: 12:12
a world where the flowers talk And, um uh you can eat, You
Stephanie Garber: 12:18
know, I think like, you know, drink three bottles and eat me and all of those things I think that I think that's probably just ingrained in me. It let's make it all make everything just a little Alison Wonderland. But
Marissa Meyer: 12:30
it wasn't it wasn't maybe intentional, but it's
Stephanie Garber: 12:32
probably definitely, like just so much a part of, like, the things I love. But it can't help but feed into what I'm doing.
Marissa Meyer: 12:38
Of course, No. And I think that terrible, like this idea that you know, the care just kind of get swept away in this very whimsical but not necessarily benevolent world. Just had, like, a lot of that, that kind of wonderland the dark underbelly of Wonderland vibes for me, which I loved. Ah, and I was so want to go look at your Pinterest boards because I have a feeling that there's gonna be a lot of crossover between Caravel and heartless Pinterest. Oh, no, I'm until I don't think I've ever seen the heartless board. But I can imagine I would love a pair. Notes. Do you have a Pinterest board started for your next book already? Or is that something you're kind of building? Do you know what? I started it
Stephanie Garber: 13:24
before. Um, I started writing this next book, so I like as I was writing. Finale. Um, I had, like, a Pinterest board a private board that I just labeled Miscellaneous. And I just put anything I liked in the
Marissa Meyer: 13:39
booth. I have one of those two. Yeah, and
Stephanie Garber: 13:43
so I started collecting ideas for it. And I haven't, like, separated The ideas I've used for this book. I probably need to be that. But they're definitely, like, certain things that were, like, hugely inspirational, like one image in particular of this dude, which I'm like, super tempted to share with everyone because I just think it's such a great
Marissa Meyer: 14:01
e i e I,
Stephanie Garber: 14:06
um So yeah, so I It's not like an official board yet, but I know I have a collection of images that I've just been kind of like putting in there like, I don't know if you do anything like this, but it's like when I'm, like, finishing up another project. I just start collecting ideas for the next one. And until they kind of like I think of it, almost like, um, like, cooking jam if they they simmer down into something, you know? So like, you just keep collecting and collecting and some burn off and, you know, some, like, Goto for miss. Like, really sweet awesome substance.
Marissa Meyer: 14:38
Yeah, I have never thought of it as making jam. That makes sense to me that because it is it very much this idea of simmering you're just kind of putting things in a pot and letting them simmer until you know, you you get to a place where now I can do something with this. Yeah, but but OK, well, I was hoping Teoh you into answering and giving us, like your Pinterest account info theme. Next book ideas. Okay, one, uh, question that I received from simply Mayor Bare eyes it. If you were going to care of all, would you want to be a player or a watcher? You know, it's interesting.
Stephanie Garber: 15:18
I feel like my answer has changed since I first wrote care of all, Um, when caramel first came out, um, like, three years ago, um, I would have definitely said watcher, but I feel like I've kind of become less fearful unless adventure and more adventurous. I feel like publishing kind of required
Marissa Meyer: 15:38
to get rid of a lot later on. I definitely think
Stephanie Garber: 15:43
right now I would want to play like I think I would I would want to play. I would want it, like, go full. And on the game, where is, like, a couple of years ago, I would have definitely been like, Oh, no, I'm just watching. I'm gonna eat all the food. I'm gonna buy the pretty dresses and just, like, sit back and let you all mess up your minds.
Marissa Meyer: 15:59
I love that you just compared publishing to, like, maybe getting swept up in this game in which people may or may not be trying to kill you and your family is there, right? Do you play? Would you player? Would you just like No, I would absolutely play. Um, I think Mitt halfway through the game, I might regret that decision. Um, play because, you know, it is you really put them through a lot. Um but but I'm I I like experiences. I think that if I didn't do it when I had the opportunity that I would regret not doing it. And being writers, you never know where you know and what could inspire a new story. So page it on. I could picture you
Stephanie Garber: 16:46
there. Like, whenever I see you, I feel like you have, like, the cutest dresses, like
Marissa Meyer: 16:49
they're very Alice in Wonderland to me, the area I feel like I could totally see with your dresses. And you're awesome males
Stephanie Garber: 16:56
just like going into care about. But everyone probably think you're a performer. But if you like going to try and get secrets from you and seeing if you have clues and you could throw them all off their game
Marissa Meyer: 17:07
There you go. Maybe I don't want to be a watch for a player. Maybe I want to be part of the performance. Wasn't one of the options. What one thing that I that caught my eye. Um, because I always read Acknowledgement Simon Acknowledgments page reader. The Acknowledgments, I think for the first book, you said quote. Before I finished this book, I've been confronted with every reason to give up on writing, um, which I thought was interesting. And you're very vague about it. You don't really go into details. And I was curious. What What happened? Oh, man. Oh, gosh, I like I don't even remember writing that, but it feels like so true, because it iss I think, you
Stephanie Garber: 17:51
know, there's, like, two parts of the journey. There's, like, the part when I was younger, and I won't go into that one as much. But when I was younger, I was not. I did not do well in English crosses. Um, in fact, like I remember, I actually got kicked out of an English class my
Marissa Meyer: 18:08
senior year in high school. Like I didn't get out of an English class man, But I didn't
Stephanie Garber: 18:15
go to school One day. I missed a lot of school, and my friends told me they were like, Hey, I don't remember the name of the teacher, but she told us to tell you just not to bother coming back to class. Um, and you need to find a new class. So I had gotten kicked out of that class. Um, and I was told a lot, just like, um, when I was younger, that my papers were always confusing and people had a hard time following me So it wasn't like I didn't know how to revise. Like I didn't know how to take something and turn it into something that was readable. Um, but I love writing. And then in my senior year in high school, I tried to, like, do my senior project on how to write a
Marissa Meyer: 18:59
Children's book and How to get published. And, um, this was in the nineties and I couldn't figure out how to get published. I there, you know, there was no information on the Internet, the Internet, I don't
Stephanie Garber: 19:11
even think was a tool that I used. It was liking hard catalogues in libraries and no one at my school like the mentor I had didn't know anything about publishing eso. I kind of e did very poorly on that project. And I also felt like publishing was this impossible world on, and he didn't want to pursue it and then fast forward. 10 years later, um, I read
Marissa Meyer: 19:35
Twilight and fell back in love with fiction. Um, and
Stephanie Garber: 19:42
I just started devouring. Why books? And then I decided to start writing, and I wasn't even writing, trying to get published. But as soon as I started writing I just became obsessed and I would write, like, four hours a day. Um, whenever I wasn't working, I was just writing and it became like I called it my hobby that got out of control cause I decided initially I was like, I want to try to get published so that I
Marissa Meyer: 20:06
can keep writing. It was just like, I just want to do this like, this is really what I wanted to do my whole life. Um
Stephanie Garber: 20:13
And so I ended up, I had this job and it was not a good job for me. I was a resident director at a college, and I'm way too introverted for a job like that. Um, and I didn't know it at the time, but so I quit the job, and I had asked my parents if I could move back in with them and
Marissa Meyer: 20:33
pursue writing, and they were, like, oddly like, super supportive
Stephanie Garber: 20:38
of this idea. And we also like, but I still, you know, knew nothing about publishing. I was just like, Well, I think I'd read this, like, am a lot, both bird by bird. And
Marissa Meyer: 20:49
she was like, If you write the book, then you'll get it published. So I was like, Okay, I'm just gonna write just since I moved home
Stephanie Garber: 20:58
and I'm an optimist. And I was like, all right, the book. And, you know, like, I just I don't know, I had this very optimistic mindset. I also thought publishing worked really fast. And so I was like,
Marissa Meyer: 21:08
within a year,
Stephanie Garber: 21:09
you know, you know, this will happen or it won't. Um, and I wrote the book and it was, Oh, gosh, over 100 rejections from agents and not a single request, like, not a single request and the or caramel. No, this was for my first book that I wrote, okay? And I did everything that you weren't supposed to dio. I wrote the first book, which was, like a good 120,000 words and
Marissa Meyer: 21:37
in, like, 2009.
Stephanie Garber: 21:38
Like, why novels weren't supposed to be that long. And I wrote the
Marissa Meyer: 21:44
whole trilogy throughout this whole trilogy of
Stephanie Garber: 21:47
books. I didn't get a single request. I queried probably every single agent in the business. And amazingly enough, my parents were
Marissa Meyer: 21:57
like, you know, that's okay. Maybe you should just write another. So I had, like, my super supportive
Stephanie Garber: 22:02
family, and I wrote another. I wrote another book and just got numerous rejection again and again on and I did this for several years. So care about was actually the sixth book that I had written. And, um, I had had just so many rejections, and I remember, you know, and there were a lot of, like, positive things that happened. And then, like, in the meantime, somehow I started, like, I got a job as an adjunct at a college teaching creative writing, so it wasn't like,
Marissa Meyer: 22:31
completely unemployed. But if you know anything about adjunct to pay,
Stephanie Garber: 22:36
not enough to live on. And, um so I have this job, But I My writing just wasn't getting anywhere, And, uh, I had gotten
Marissa Meyer: 22:45
an agent with the fifth book I'd written, And it wasn't It was one of those, you know, a lot of people who've had first agents and haven't had great experiences. It was one of those situations, but I still had an agent, and so I was like, you know,
Stephanie Garber: 22:58
it gave me hope. And then a week after finishing terrible, she left the business. And at this point, I had been like with my parents for I want to say 5.5 years, you know, living with my parents. I'm in my thirties. I'm writing fantasy novels. Everyone they knew was questioning bear choices and letting me be
Marissa Meyer: 23:20
there. I was questioning my choices and,
Stephanie Garber: 23:25
um and I remember just like a couple weeks after, um, that agent left the business and I was revising Terrible on my mom was just like she came up to me and she was like, Stephanie, it might be time to face it like, but you're just not gonna make it as a writer. Um, and I was so crushed. I was so crushed. And I remember calling my critique partner, and she was just like, I think, you know, your, um your
Marissa Meyer: 23:50
mom just didn't want to see you go through rejection anymore. And it wasn't like, you know, my parents have given up. It was just, you know, it was getting so hard on me like I love I love, right. I loved it
Stephanie Garber: 24:00
then and I love it now. I love story telling, and I just had felt like as I was doing it, that this is what I was made to do, But I was not getting any
Marissa Meyer: 24:09
confirmation on Isn't going at it
Stephanie Garber: 24:12
so long? And I think in our society it's very much like, if this is meant to be, it should be easy. And it shouldn't take five years to Dio. And there's all these things like, you know, um, that it's just kind of win like And so the fact that it was such a struggle for me made it seem impossible, I think, to a lot of people and even to me, But I just couldn't give up. I could not give up. Um, And so with care about like, I revised the book and I hired a freelance editor
Marissa Meyer: 24:41
just to look at
Stephanie Garber: 24:42
the 1st 50 pages. Um, because a friend suggested it, and Caravelle starts off with, you know, these letters and, um and I just wanted to do like the best. And so
Marissa Meyer: 24:53
it worked out with care about meantime, like I ended up in the agent.
Stephanie Garber: 24:56
It was all great. But before then it was like bad agent experiences, hundreds of Rio junctions, and some were really, really cool.
Marissa Meyer: 25:04
Really, really cruel. Not really, really cool. Cool. Cruel. Yeah, like, you know, No. Yeah, and I wasn't,
Stephanie Garber: 25:15
You know, I wasn't a writer who got praised when I was in. No, I wasn't a model student. I wasn't any of those things that gave any reason to think I should be a success in this field. Um, and so it was. It was a lot. And I I mean, just looking back, I'm just so, so thankful. I still don't know what out. And I'm really thankful.
Marissa Meyer: 25:36
And look at you. Now. Look, I would hold worked out. It's amazing it No. And I I can imagine I so many aspiring writers must hear that story. And you're like, this beacon of hope. It's a really great story. I mean, sad. And I'm sorry that you went this. Um, but but, you know, I love that you stuck with it that you didn't give up. Thank you. Thank you. Know what I really
Stephanie Garber: 26:05
like? Like, I'm very thankful for it. Now. I don't know if you feel this way, like with your career, but I feel like when I was, like, sense getting published, it's it's still really hard. Um, and I feel like the query in process and the process to get published gave me the strength to, like, not just continue to go as a writer, but like to work my hardest and publishing because I felt like I felt like I had conquered the mountain. And so whenever I get confronted with another one like a second book that has to be rewritten four times. I'm
Marissa Meyer: 26:39
like, I can do it. I can do this.
Stephanie Garber: 26:41
I have already done it. I And so it gives me confidence that I can keep going and it keeps me from, you know, settling or giving up.
Marissa Meyer: 26:48
Can you really use that? Absolutely, Absolutely. I mean, I don't My path to publication was was fairly quick and easy, especially compared to yours pretty. But of course, you know, I have had books that required many, many, many revisions and under extremely tight deadlines, and you
Stephanie Garber: 27:11
know that that struggle on. And so now that I've gotten through some of those, whenever the writing gets tough, I can look back and
Marissa Meyer: 27:20
be like, you know, you've been here before, Marissa, you accomplish this, you can do it again. Eso it does kind of, you know, put some air under your wings. Yeah, I think I mean, I think you're gonna
Stephanie Garber: 27:31
have those difficult times, whether it's before or after publication. So I think, like, you know,
Marissa Meyer: 27:36
it could be good either way. Yeah, no, that actually six perfectly into another reader question, um, ends 2 to 1. Asked what helps you continue writing through the hard days? I think you
Stephanie Garber: 27:50
know a lot of knowing that I feel like I've gone through a lot of difficult things and knowing that I can do it. I think Teoh I really believe like publishing is is a long game. Um, I feel like I like looking at writers like you who It's just like you just keep going and you keep writing more and more and more books. And it's not just like you write one book and then stop. Um and so I feel like just knowing that it's like you just keep going like anything. I don't know if that makes any sense, but just the idea that it's not like you're not putting all your eggs in one basket. You just kind of continue just a decision like I'm gonna keep going like it's not so much a choice. Um, okay, I feel like I'm doing a bad job describing this. I can't
Marissa Meyer: 28:37
No, I think you're doing great. It makes sense to me. Like, for me publishing. I didn't
Stephanie Garber: 28:43
have a Plan B. Um, like by the time that I had been like writing at my parents, I had graduated from college. I graduated from grad school, but like, my resume was out of date, Um, I had just left that cur behind. So it was like a publishing didn't work out. I didn't know what I was gonna do, and I and for me, like not having a Plan B like putting everything into it is it works for me because I feel like sometimes if I'm kind of hedging my bets, I'm not going all in. Um, so I think that helps. And then I think also just like my love writing like I love it. And so even like if the writing is difficult there, I'll I'll dive into a book and remind myself why I love writing so so much on. So I think like I really I always tell people like if you don't love writing,
Marissa Meyer: 29:38
don't It's not It's not, You
Stephanie Garber: 29:42
know, it's so hard. But if you love writing like and I just do And I feel like I just find so much story from my, uh um And then also just like I like my faith is an important part of my life, and it plays into my writing and how I see that. So that also helps. Helps me to, cause I kind of have the belief, but, like, everything happens for a reason. Um, so I never I never feel doomed.
Marissa Meyer: 30:07
Mm. No, I love that. You say that because I also just love writing. I get a lot of joy and satisfaction out of it. Um, and which is not, of course, to say that it isn't hard, of course, is that we all have bad days. Um, So you wrote six books? Um, care of all gets published. Ripped into your career. How do you feel? Like you. You've changed as a writer now published and had some success with it. Well, um, I feel like Okay, it's gonna I feel like I've learned how to write a book that makes sense like a I was just thinking,
Stephanie Garber: 30:51
um, about like, I just finished will not just finished. I'm revising and revising my next book, and it's mostly done. And I feel like with this book, I kind of knew I kind of learned my process and how to write a book like I feel like I'm gonna always be learning Like I think, writing a book of such a big process like I don't imagine, I'll ever feel like I will learned everything and that doesn't even sound fun. But I feel like when I wrote care of all, um,
Marissa Meyer: 31:17
I kind of didn't know what I was doing, even though it was
Stephanie Garber: 31:21
my sixth book. Like, I've never had a book that had gone all the way through at it. You know, I had never, like, completed the race. Um, and so, like, with the care of all Siri's and finishing the whole trilogy, I feel like I learned I learned a lot about, like, my process and what does work and what doesn't work. Um, so, like with Cara vow, I kind of pantsed it, um, with legendary. I tried the same thing, and it was an epic failure, and I had to rewrite that book four times. Um, season with finale, I figured out kind of my how to plot in a way that works for me. Um, which is kind of a hybrid of a lot of things that I've learned over the past 10 years. Um, and and so I feel like I found my rhythm and how I how we worked best creatively. Um, and I don't I don't I don't make any sense. I feel like it's terrible answer. I'm like, What if I learned? I don't know.
Marissa Meyer: 32:22
I think changes. It changes so much. You
Stephanie Garber: 32:26
know, I think I I think you know, there's things that you do and it just for me. It's like I learned the most from my mistakes. Like if I get something right the first time, I haven't necessarily. You learned anything? I've just been lucky. Ah, but if I have made a mistake and then I learned how to fix it, I feel like, um, I feel like that's how I grow. And like the care of all serious legendary was such a hard book for me to write. And I made so many mistakes and and it also taught me so much time out what we're expects for me in terms of like process And also like what? I kind of need to know when I write a novel. And what I don't need to know that I think care of. I wrote most months. Um, and it was a very it was a process I haven't been able to replicate in
Marissa Meyer: 33:14
terms of quickness. And
Stephanie Garber: 33:17
I feel like, really lucky with that book. Um, and since then, I kind of learned how I did that book. Where's that first time? I just kind of
Marissa Meyer: 33:26
did it. Doesn't make any sense at all. Yeah, I know. And I think you're right that every book kind of comes with its own challenges. So just because you've learned something with a previous book, whether or not you'll be able to apply that to the next book is debatable sometimes, Yeah, but but at the same time. And I feel similarly how I do think that I am kind of growing, and with every book, I tweak
Stephanie Garber: 33:52
my process a little bit to wear. Just overall, I become a more confident author. Um, just kind of how I'm interpreting
Marissa Meyer: 34:00
what you're saying is Well, yeah. Do you use the same
Stephanie Garber: 34:03
process like roughly the same process for each of your books or does it change
Marissa Meyer: 34:06
the really the same. It does change based on the book, but that the big steps remain the same. Brainstorm outline deeper outline, quick first draft revised eyes. Kind of how the very CliffsNotes version of how well and one thing.
Stephanie Garber: 34:30
Okay, this might be like a more helpful thing. Toe listeners is one of the things I learned. So the book I just the book I'm revising right now. Um, after the care of all Siri's, um after I finished that, like my publisher, you know, spot two more books for me. And when I discussed my idea for the next book with my editor, she was all for it. And then I went to work on it for about two months and it didn't feel right. And then one morning I woke up and there was this other idea. I had been trying to make work for like, two years, and I hadn't even been thinking of it, and it just
Marissa Meyer: 35:07
magically like it felt magical at the time. I woke up and I had the whole idea like it was just there, and it felt like this thing that was just like Oh, it can to
Stephanie Garber: 35:17
me. But then, upon reflection on it, I realized that I think the way my brain actually works is I will collect ideas and I will collect you know, my Pinterest board and let it all simmer. But then I also have like a seed of an idea, and I'll have notebooks and I'll just rewrite part of it over and over and over and over and over because like, I'll get stuck and I'll hit a wall. Um and then you know, eventually like it just comes to me. But what I think it is is that when I collect enough ideas and I look at them enough, it's almost like I've solving a puzzle. So I think the way I see it is like it's it's kind of like a the way I'll brainstorm is I just collect a collect. And then one day the pattern between ideas kind of presents itself. So it's like I won't know how to tell this story. I'll just have all these separate ideas, that kind of seam I'm related or some seeing related, and I don't know how to make them connect and then suddenly I'll be able to see the pattern, so it's really like connecting ideas and throwing out pieces and tell like a concrete map pattern forms. But for a while, like I didn't realize that that's what I do until this book. And I think, like with legendary I didn't do that enough. I drove into the idea before really having like, a solid framework for myself. Um, and with care about A I had sat with the idea long enough so that I was able just to write it pretty quickly. But I think you know, it's it's collecting a lot of ideas and tell a pattern. Forms. Yeah, not help anyone?
Marissa Meyer: 36:48
No, I think it's great advice. It's when actually, very recently did, um, and virtual seminar all about kind of where ideas come from in the kind of brain science behind where we get our ideas were always gathering, you know, information and data and inspiration. Ah, and it goes with this big pool in our brains, uh and then, like one day this to synapses form and boom. You get this new idea and it seems very magical, like you say, but it's it's kind of based on. You know, this this time period of things melding and connecting in your brain that you're just not aware of
Stephanie Garber: 37:31
because it's all happening kind of in your subconscious. Yes. Yeah,
Marissa Meyer: 37:36
right. The brain is fascinating is and he gives us, like, more reason to even just, like, spend time on Pinterest but TV, So read more books. Bisney Late. Yes. Uh, okay. Uh, last question reader question. It's actually not so much a question, A statement, but so many wants you to have a care of all themed fan event with costumes and riddles and games. I would love that. And I would also love that. I'm seconding this idea. I'm bringing it up. Thank you. You
Stephanie Garber: 38:14
know, I've talked about that, um, different people at different times. I think my editor and I have had this conversation many times. I feel like I would love to do that. I, um especially in my old job. In my other life, I was a planned. A lot of
Marissa Meyer: 38:32
events on and a lot and quite a few
Stephanie Garber: 38:36
did have costumes involved. So I am all for the costumes. I'm all for themes. I'm over anything themed or party um So I would love to make that happen at some point in my, um and my book launches, usually I do. My book launches in Roseville, California, and the Barnes and Noble there is great, and we'll usually do some sort of game like this. Last one, I had apples, glittery apples all over the store. Um, and you have the hell had clues. And if you found the right person, you get a prize. Um, and like so not bad. Elaborate, but I usually do like some sort of game there. But I'd love to take it, like, make it a really terrible party
Marissa Meyer: 39:17
That would be so cool. Would be epic if it ever happens. I want my invitation. Okay. You could be one of the performers. Okay, Perfect. I I also any excuse to wear a costume. Um, OK. And then everybody I'd say probably about 30% of the questions that I got. People want to know what is your rumor project? Your project. Can you tell us anything? I for anyone who hasn't heard of the rumor
Stephanie Garber: 39:56
project, um, you can go to my instagram. There's, like, a same story on there, and then There's a post where in the finale paper. Back in the back of it, There's like a rumor page. Um, with all the rumors, I with all the
Marissa Meyer: 40:12
rumor, is about the project and which I will say this
Stephanie Garber: 40:17
That page fits with the book. Um, and a lot of the rumors came because people just kept telling me all these things they've heard I was writing. Um, e there was even, like on ah, on a, um it was I don't wanna Another publisher had written in one of their books, like on their Edelweiss page. They've been like, we know Stephanie Garber's next project is X y Z. Um, yeah, I was like and I had This was before I'd even decided on what I was writing. So I didn't even know what I was writing. And I thought this was hilarious. And so it's like things like that. I threw all the rumors and Miss Rumor Page and one of them, one of them, for
Marissa Meyer: 40:56
sure is true. So I can tell you that
Stephanie Garber: 40:58
one. Really? You know, one really is true. I just can't tell you which one.
Marissa Meyer: 41:02
E love it a little game thing. I like, wrote the sheet
Stephanie Garber: 41:10
up for my editor. And I was
Marissa Meyer: 41:11
like me. But this is e. That is so clever. Okay, readers, go get your your paperback of Sally and you'll have one idea of many. Okay, Stephanie, we're gonna wrap this up with the happy writer Lightning round. First question. What book makes you happy? Ah, Um, okay, the first thing that jump to
Stephanie Garber: 41:39
mind was twilight, cause Stephanie might just, like, put up an announcement on her website.
Marissa Meyer: 41:43
Uh, well, not announcement. Just like a countdown clock. So I am very happy about that. And all things Twilight. What do you do to celebrate an accomplishment? Ice cream? How do you feel the creative? Well, uh, reading,
Stephanie Garber: 42:03
Reading a lot, going on walks, watching TV shows. Um, also talking to my friends about writing and books. I love talking about writing and books.
Marissa Meyer: 42:16
What advice would you give to help someone become a happier writer? I would say write the story you
Stephanie Garber: 42:23
want to read? Um, don't think about publishing. Don't think about the market. Definitely. Don't think about, um, any of the critical voices in your head as you're writing. Just write the story you want to read.
Marissa Meyer: 42:38
And lastly, where can people find you? Uh, I am I am mostly on Instagram.
Stephanie Garber: 42:46
So I'm Stephanie. Underscore Garber on instagram. I'm I'm on there a lot. Like I'm pretty responsive. Um, so
Marissa Meyer: 42:55
instagram is usually the
Stephanie Garber: 42:56
best place. I'm also on Twitter at S Garber girl. Although I'm currently lake live out of my twitter account. Um, and so I may not say anything on there for a while, but, um, I usually pop back on there from time to time, and then I also have a website that I tried to update. Um,
Marissa Meyer: 43:16
I like what is my website getting it? Stephanie and garver author dot com. You think? I think, Let's open. So thank you so much for joining me today. Stephanie, this was so fun to talk to you. Oh, my gosh. Thank you for having me. This has been so fun. And it's just like it's brought me so much joy. It makes me feel
Stephanie Garber: 43:36
like a very happy writer.
Marissa Meyer: 43:39
That's Michael. I'm so happy to hear it. Uh, Raiders definitely check out the Carib all trilogy if you haven't already. Uh, now more than ever. If you can support your local indie bookstore. We encourage you to do so. Please have come to this podcast. So you will always be in the know about new episodes. You can also find me on Instagram at Marisa Meyer author until next time, stay healthy and cozy out there in your bunkers and whatever life throws at you today, I do hope that now you like Me and Stephanie are now feeling a little bit.