Marissa chats with Lish McBride about her upcoming Beauty and the Beast retelling, CURSES, as well as how stand-up comedy helped Lish cultivate her humor-writing skills, the influence of supportive teachers, how going through tough times can make us more creatively resilient, and some tips for how writers can make a good impression at book signings - even if no one shows up!
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa chats with Lish McBride about her upcoming Beauty and the Beast retelling, CURSES, as well as how stand-up comedy helped Lish cultivate her humor-writing skills, the influence of supportive teachers, how going through tough times can make us more creatively resilient, and some tips for how writers can make a good impression at book signings - even if no one shows up!
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I am your host, Marissa Meyer. Thank you so much for joining me today. One thing that has been making me happy this week is that a while ago, my aunt sent me a care package while we were stuck here in quarantine, and it was a package of wicked Wolf coffee. Uh, and I am not much of a coffee kind of sewer. Um, however, it has been delicious coffee and the packaging has a super cute little red riding hood theme to it. So it makes me happy every time I am skipping out of the bag and making our morning coffee. Um, so fairytale fans definitely check it out cause the packaging is really super cool. Uh, I am also so happy to be talking to today's guest. She is the author of four young adult paranormal fantasies, which are holding me closer. Necromancer, Nick romancing, the stone Firebug and PI romantic her new book, a fairytale inspired fantasy titled curses comes out in 2021. She is also a very good friend of mine and I miss her face so much. Uh, so I'm glad that we at least get to talk to each other over the magic of zoom. Please. Welcome Lish McBride, Hulu. I can tell you so that, that coffee, I actually had a wicked Wolf t-shirt and mug for awhile and like that's how much of a nerd I am for that design. Like it's to continue to plug that coffee, but it's really good. I didn't even know there was a merchandise involved. Oh yeah. You can get a, we used to have portable mugs, but they also, um, I think have regular ones and shirts and postcards. Cause we've been ordering from them on the pandemic. Cause I like, I like the wicked Wolf, but I also like they have a, a bear one that's really good. Is it also fairytale themed? Um, not all of it. They definitely have different designs. The, the Berry thing kind of is they have like the bear and the Wolf is part of like our animal line and then they have things like resurrect, resurrection, blend and stuff like that. This coffee brand, it has the animal law. Well, I worked in coffee for, Oh gosh, uh, probably eight years. I was a barista and I hated coffee when I started and now I will murder someone if I don't have it in the morning. So that's, that's a rat. Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm not like super addicted. Like I pretty much only have one cup a day. Um, but it's like my favorite time of the day sitting when things are peaceful and quiet and my kids haven't woken up yet and to sit and have that first cup of coffee, um, with my husband and just kind of ease into our day. It is, is my favorite time of the day. So I don't know what I'd do without it. It's good. Yeah. I miss you. What have you been up to?
Speaker 3:Oh, um, well, we've been trying to stay sane. We're looking, we have a yard which is really helpful and um, my husband processes by building stuff. So I'm not, since we've been in lockdown, he has built a new table for our TV, a bench, a fire pit two, um, planting beds for me, a climbing wall for smalls. Um, some decorative stuff like, I mean, I've actually lost track of all the stuff that he's built. So the one nice thing he also did, uh, I don't have an office. So when I'm working at home, it's kind of hard to work at home when everyone else is also home. And so he cleared out a spot in his shop for me to write. Um, and it's very much like I've seen your writing space, which I feel like is very much you. And this one, it looks like someone's going to get murdered in here. We started calling we've started calling it the murder shack. And I mean, it's sort of like a half a shop space with things he's held, held onto for his craft projects. So there's like fake bones in here. There's a gas mask. There's weird, like old Russell farm tools. Like it definitely looks sketchy. Um, but I also, I kind of love it. He also, he hung up some bird feeders where we, so I can look at birds while I'm trying to figure stuff out in the book.
Speaker 2:You are a multilayered human beings.
Speaker 3:I am, I am an onion, but it's a really nice because it means that like, even though it's really hard, I think to create during times like these, um, I have a space where it's, it's made a lot easier. So I've actually been able to work on things and get writing done every day. There are certain, some days that I've had to sort of tap out, but yeah,
Speaker 2:I did actually. I wanted to talk to you about that because I know before all of this happened, um, you know, you and I used to get together all the time and had lots of writing dates and we've been on retreats together. And now we're, we're both kind of as with so many writers, um, in the same boat where we're stuck at home and can't go and enjoy the cafes and the restaurants and get work done. And you have a teenager at home, you have a young kid at home. Uh, so, and you mentioned yet that you've managed to get some work done every day. How has this whole situation kind of changed how you've had to think about working
Speaker 3:It's? Um, well, one nice thing. I will say that, um, even though, you know, smallest is five and has a hard time understanding what I do and what's happening. Um, the rest of my family's really good about like, it's a job, but it's prioritized. So if I say like, I'm going to go work now they do, they do fairly well leaving me alone. But yeah, I used to go, I used to leave the house all the time and go meet writers a couple of weeks to try to keep being productive and on it. And so the I've had to basically find a new, kind of a new routine because I think sometimes a lot of time with writing, there's almost a muscle memory to it where you get used to your patterns and go like, okay, you know, when I sit down and do this, this means writing time. I think, and every writer I've talked to is different. One friend it's like she would relate to certain candle and get like a scent thing going on. Like Jessica Brody says she used to go to a cafe and then like when her laptop would die, like that was her writing time. It was like three hours
Speaker 2:Life, the fickle battery life.
Speaker 3:It was years ago, but I basically like we set up a separate space. I got a new, a new chair and new, um, noise canceling headphones to kind of help because for me, that's, that's more of a trigger if I put on my headphones, that means we're working. And so it's like, it's almost like an ingrained kind of Pavlovian response at this point. And so, um, I won't even necessarily have them on playing anything, but just having means. And it gives my family a visual signal that I am working. And so, um, that's helped a lot. The other thing I think that has helped is I do have some experience trying to be productive during, during really terrible things. Like I was going to, um, graduate school during Katrina. And like, I think I was in, I had my first, I had the first writing workout class and then we had to evacuate. And so it was evacuated and we were, we went to school online. And so I was still having to turn in short stories and things, but also like deal with the fact that we were randomly in this town in Mississippi, that we didn't know anybody we'd lost all of our stuff. You know, I wasn't seeing my husband or my roommates for months or weeks or months because they would go work down on the coast and I was home with a toddler and trying to get work done. And so when you've gone through something that's like that you do learn some things about how you create and how, how you personally deal with things. So there are days where, where I know I'm not gonna be able to focus and get work done. And I think learning to give yourself that Slack where like, it's okay, like you've cut a lot of it and stuff going on some days writing, isn't gonna just isn't going to happen. And then the other day, figuring out when you can sit down and be like, okay, well it's hard, but I'm going to make it work. I think learning your own, you know, what your threshold is for that. And so I think it's weird, but I think that did help sort of train me for this a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no kind of built up that resilience. Yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense. And that, I mean, I feel like you're one of the more resilient writers that I know, just kind
Speaker 3:Of knowing
Speaker 4:All of the things that you've been through
Speaker 3:Over the years. Um, and I, I know I really admire that and the way that you continue to create and continue to tap into your stories, um, what are some of the things that you feel have kind of motivated you to stick with it over all these years? You know, I'm not really, I'm not really sure. I think, I think there is a component of just sheer pigheadedness honestly. So, you know, I think there's, I make a lot of jokes about, about writing out of spite, but I do think, I do think there's something to it when, um, when you're young and you want to create something, there's a lot of people that know, they say you can't do that or, you know, isn't gonna work or, you know, all the, all the things that you have to kind of go through. And I learned early that if this was important to me, then I was just going to have to go, okay, well, that's nice and I hear you, but also I'm going to keep doing what I want to do. And I, I do think, um, there's elements of that. You know, I make a, make a lot of jokes too, about being a human cat. There's also this I've always made up stories. And if I'm not, I've noticed during the times where I'm, if I'm not writing, like have a couple of weeks go by and I've not written anything, I get really grouchy. Like I will become very difficult to deal with and which is not fair to my family at all. Um, it's I think that even if, even if I wasn't published, I do think I would still be writing just because I don't know it does something in my brain where it helps, it helps me kind of get rid of some of the more anxious or negative emotions. Um, and I mean, I write funny books. So most of it is just me trying to make myself laugh. I think there's some payoff there, but I honestly, I do think a lot of creation comes down to being stubborn. I mean, it's like, this is what I want to do. I mean, how many people told you that like, Oh, that's cute that you want to be a writer and all, but like, what is your real job going to be like, how many times now you definitely hear that. And I was lucky I had a family that was very supportive of my dream to be a writer. Um, but I do like one of my, one of the memories that kind of sticks out to me was, um, a teacher who in passing kind of referred to me as, Oh, that girl who fancies herself a writer. Um, and I, that has always stuck with me and I know exactly what you're talking about, that, that feeling inside like, Oh, I will prove to you that I am a writer. I will make you eat those words. Um, so there's definitely a part of that. I get it for sure. That's a terrible thing to tell a student and I'm sure she thought it would never get back to me. Um, but a friend of mine just happened to overhear it and yeah, but, Oh, well look at me now there's some spike. I mean, not mean kind of way, but there's like a, this is what I want to do and I'm going to do it. And I think I had a, I had a 10th grade English teacher who was really lovely. I mean, she was really very supportive, um, and took me aside early on into the year and basically said like, look, I can't teach you on the curriculum that we have you're too far ahead. And so she did all these kinds of things to try to like nurture that she set up like a teen writing workshop for me to lead. I had no idea what I was doing. It's awesome though. Other kids that wanted to write and, um, she basically created a whole new book list for me and gave me one of the most like backhanded compliments. Like I don't think she meant it terribly, but one day we were talking and she said, look, there are people that are good writers and there are people that can write for a living. And I think you can write for a living. I'm not good kid, but like, are they mutually exclusive? Or actually I'm still friends with her on Facebook. She's really just a lovely human and was very supportive. And when I told her, after my first book got published and I said, Hey, just so you know, I, I didn't die in a ditch because like I sorta disappeared from high school. Um, but I, I did fine and I got my education and I have a book coming. I had a book come out and she was just really, I mean, the response I got back from him was like, that makes sense to me. Um, so you were very successful high schooler and I assumed you'd be a successful and wonderful adult. And I'm so proud of you. And it was a really nice, really nice response. Yeah. Definitely. Teachers were like, that's cute kid, but what's your day job gonna be? Yeah. Yeah. I had, um, I had a number of teachers who were encouraging. Um, but I remember one in particular who, you know, I'm not sure how she heard about me and my books when that was getting published, but ended up coming to one of my launch parties. Um, and it was a very brief interaction cause I had things to do and books to sign. Um, but just like the pride in her voice and in her face when she came up to the signing table, you know, it was one of those, those special moments in my career. So yeah. Hi mrs. Coldwell, if you're out there listening to this, um, so I wanted to take some time to reminisce about the first time that you and I ever met. Um, because I think it's kind of a funny story. It's something that a lot of, um, maybe new authors might appreciate. The first time that we ever met was at a book signing. We were supposed to be doing a book signing together, uh, in Seattle where we both live near Seattle. Um, and it was like, we get there, it was in the middle of a Saturday afternoon and it was the first, truly sunny, beautiful day that Seattle had had that year. And exactly zero people showed up to our, yeah, it was Elliot Bay was reopening their children and section, they just moved. And my ex there, one person, my friend crystal showed up, we had a friend. Um, yeah, no, it's funny because when I tell people that by one truly no show event was like with you. And usually you have a ton of readers, it's it is kind of funny. I do think it sort of helped though, like to have that, that moment of like, how are you going to handle this? Because like, as you know, I did events for years and years, um, at third place books, which is a local local bookshop. And it's always interesting to me to see, not just how authors handle big events, but also how they handle when like one or two people show up or know people show up because it's going to happen. It happens to everybody. Um, and it doesn't necessarily mean anything. Like there are so many factors and so many things that can lead into it. And so you can either be nice or you can get really upset. And I think, um, what I remember too, it was like the, the books, the books took up apologizing to us for the kids. They can't make people come. It was so nice outside and both, both you and I were like, Hey, this is fine. We'll looks for you. I think you had, um, fortune cookies with you
Speaker 2:Probably back when cinder jacking that I traveled with fortune cookies.
Speaker 3:Yeah. We both play in books. We chatted with them. We told them that we would be happy to come back any time. And I think that was a nice blueprint for me to go in and Hey, when this happens, this is how you act, you sign stock, you chat with them because end of the day, even when you go after you've gone home, that bookstore staff is going to remember if you were nice to them. And if you chatted with and told them about your book and did all these things that were really positive. And they'll talk about that. And I've, as a bookseller, I've sold books based on this author is so nice. And here's what she talked about. And maybe here's the backstory of that book. She told me about it does, it does form a connection with a reader, even if that reader isn't there at the event. And so it was really funny to be like, well, that's the one time no one showed up
Speaker 2:Time, but it was such a, I mean, to me, it's has gone down in history is one of my favorite events because I got something so wonderful out of you. I met you. I discovered your books now. Of course, you're one of my best writing friends. Uh, so, uh, I, I just think it's funny to think, you know, cause I know aspiring writers, especially in, you know, new debut authors, it is one of the biggest fears that you will go to a book signing and nobody will show up and you're right. It does happen. It absolutely happens. But exactly what you're saying, there, there are good ways to handle it and bad ways to handle it and really wonderful things can come out of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I think people don't realize because when, when you first are approaching things, do you think about an event as a single blip and then it's done, you don't think about how, how it affects other things with it's more about forming a relationship with that bookstore and with bookseller. So booksellers tend to be fairly career. I mean, they stay in, they transfer to different bookstores, but they kind of stay in the business and they talk, they share, they share information. And so what, what can be a onetime, no big deal to you has further impact and you don't know what that's going to be. Sometimes it means you meet great book. Sometimes it means you make other good writing friends like we happen to do, which was fantastic. But other times, um, one of our other friends that writes middle grade, she had a, one of those events where it was a mother daughter book group. And one mother daughter showed up and she's like, well, this is fine. She sat down and she chatted with them and she chatted with the bookseller and she had a good time. I didn't remember thinking anything about it. And then she went home and um, but because of that event, the book seller of the book, and then when a teacher came in looking for something for Oregon battle of the books, they're like, Oh, I read this great one. Um, you know, and handed it over. And so it ended up being Oregon battle the book based on that one event. And you just don't know, you don't know what's going to happen to film that again, that one time and direction. And so I ended up writing an article for tor.com about it, like one on how to handle events for new authors, but also how to handle no show events, because yet it's just going to happen. And I think one bonus of working on the event side of things is you see authors that you love to have like this huge long time following have an event with like 20 people. Like we had Susan Cooper come to the bookstore. And when I was a kid, like I loved Susan Cooper, all of her books. And there were like 30 people there. This is Susan Hoover. But then we had like an Instagram dog. The next week is a dog and the dog sold out there was a dog. So you learn quickly how much that stuff isn't always reflective of how good the book is, you know, what kind of a writer you are or what your career is going to do. So many factors. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, interesting. Cause you really have a very interesting perspective. Having been a book seller and an event coordinator for so long. And so you really have seen both sides and I'm sure I don't doubt that you have seen the wide spectrum of, um, you know, authors and how they do handle good events versus not so great events. Um, does that, like when you are going on in doing a book signing or going on book tour, are you thinking about like, okay, I want to model this author. I don't want to be this
Speaker 3:Well a hundred percent. Like I think one of the best things to happen to me, I think, um, when the second book come out, came out, it was being sent on tour with you and other fierce reads authors because like, you were very good at summarizing your books and talking up your books where it was, I'm really not graded. It's never been I'm, I'm awesome at talking about other people's books, but when it gets to my, and I'm like, I already know everything, everything about them and I'm bored. It's not a good way to pitch your books. And so watching you guys handle things so professionally and, and, um, do and be, so I think good talking to readers and fans and connecting huge impact, but also again from the events side, seeing authors that were awful. I mean, and knowing I know all the things that can go wrong on the way to an event, like all the little blips and things, books not showing up, you know, and that's not always the bookstore's fault and all these things that can happen. And so when it does, I don't yell at the staff. That's one of the things I want to do. If I need to talk louder, I will I'll talk to my publicist or something like, Hey, I need to have chaired the bookstore about working on this thing, but I'm never going to publicly yell at anybody because I've had authors yell at me over things that had nothing to do with me and all that. All it did was mean that I will never talk their book up. Right. I'm not going to bad mouth them. I'm not going to name names, but it's one of those things where it's like, wow, you all killed any possible joy reading your book because you can't, it's hard to separate the writer and the creator from the book. Right. And yeah, it wasn't a lot. We, most authors were pretty well behaved, but we had a handful where, you know, it's like, Hey, they can't come back here anymore. Hey, you know, they, they harassed our staff. They yelled at our staff. They a few really terrible ones. You know, might've tried to like hug, hug and grab our staff and appropriately, I mean, it's, that stuff happens. Um, and so I think it really did mold a lot of the ways, um, that I try to approach of events and also, you know, talking to readers cause I've seen at a really early, really early event, like American library association for holding closer necromancer where I was signing audio books for librarians. And I don't know about you, but this is one of those things where me getting to sit down and talk to librarians about a book I wrote is kind of, you know, dream list thing where you are writers grew up in libraries and to be able to like go out there and talk to librarians and booksellers about a book you wrote. Um, and so I was, even though it was really early in the morning and you know, I'm not a morning person. It was like a 9:00 AM event. I think, um, you know, chatting with them and signing up afterwards, the people that were running it thanked me for making eye contact and smiling. And I was like, ah, okay. I know that writers can be a little awkward. You know, we spent a lot of time by ourselves with a laptop. We're not necessarily people persons, but I contacted smiling. That's kind of really went above and beyond there. Certainly some authors don't even look up like they don't really talk to people they don't. And I know I'm sure a lot of it is based on insecurity and being a nervousness comes off terribly. And so I do think, I do think events and being both sides of things have made me think very consciously about how, and also my own screw ups, things that I've done where I'm like, Oh, I regret doing that. And so I learned from it and try not to do it again. Was there ever an author that came to do an event at your store that did they do over and above? Like really memorable? Like did anyone bring a cake or like to share with the staff or anything that like really stands out to you is like that author was really a delight. So it's funny. I mean, we actually got a lot of food because a lot of, um, offers we'll do like for debut book, especially we do like a cake or something and inevitably there's stuff left over for the staff. Um, but I think I did events, I don't know, like seven years and over that time and things that I've seen, um, there was a live chicken once the rooster, uh, you see things and events that there was a rooster named Elvis. And I was actually doing events that day. I was up front and I just here in the bookstore, it was a really quiet Sunday. I just, all of a sudden hear like real is, and I walk over and it was, um, I think it was sort of vegan cookbook and they brought in a rooster from a low, still local, um, rooster sanctuary because, um, and yeah, there's just your name Elvis kind of walking around. I've had one author brought in Morris dancers, which if you don't know what a Maura stands for is Google it like it's, it's very much, um, I don't want to say UK thing cause it happens elsewhere, but it's basically, they, people were white and bells and have staffs and they sort of do the dance. There's a lot of bells ringing and people banging the staffs and things and it's not something you would expect in a bookstore. Um, and we had, we had an event stage and so we would have, we'd have belly dancers and recitals and who knows what else? But yeah, you really saw a lot, as long as it goes with the book, I'm usually pretty good when they do stuff I'm like, that has nothing to do with what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure I can start to feel really gimmicky, but can't but the best one, the one I think that I remember the most, we hosted a mystery author, Jacqueline Winspear a lot. She does like the Maisie Dobbs series and she is really lovely. She's a lovely person. And she was always great about talking about her research. She would do a lot of things that were kind of around, you know, the great war world war one and things like that. And one time she was talking about research that she did for a book and mentioning this book she found used, there was a, basically a woman's book on how to run the household, 1920s, 1930s, running there. And she's like, it has everything in there from, you know, order of precedence. If the queen comes to call to like how to host your own anarchists meeting, there was a book first book. And I told her the next time she came, that I had actually told tons of customers about that and like sold her book based on like that discussion. And she had an extra copy of the book because it's an out of print book. And so she mailed it to me. Oh, and it's this huge, crazy book that I have no idea what I'm going to use it for. But it was a really lovely gesture. I mean, she didn't have to do that. Um, it was, uh, it was definitely one of the things that I could moment of hosting events. You do see, you do see it a little bit of everything. Yeah.
Speaker 2:All right. So now let's talk about your books. You also write,
Speaker 3:I do,
Speaker 2:We're like near the end of this interview already, and I haven't even gotten to your books list.
Speaker 3:So you have two existing duology um, the necromancer books and the Firebug books. Uh, why don't you start by telling listeners a bit about them, even though, you know, I'm bad at it,
Speaker 2:Self proclaimed, horrible at pitching your own books, I'm going to make you do
Speaker 3:Difficult. Um, so the first books holding closer necromancer and incrementing, the stone are Seattle-based and humor based, but they're um, about a boy named Sam who finds out, he can raise the dead and it goes poorly as it would probably with most of us, if we learned we had a superpower, it's very creature based. I tend to throw a lot of stuff in my books. Lots of things. So there's, there is werewolves there's there were bears because I think it's funny. Um, no, I missed the gnomes, the gnomes running. My favorite films were fantastic. I do, I miss them. Um, I didn't own any gnomes before I wrote this books and now I own several people give them to me. I love it. That's great. Keep it up. Um, no, they're, they're interested in books because they were, I actually started writing the first Sam book. It was based on a really terrible short story. I wrote high school. I, when I'm in that brief period, before I dropped out of high school, I was going to alternative school and I was writing it in there and was basically about a kid that worked in a fast food place, which is where I worked at the time. And, um, had to fight all these creatures that were coming to attack him. And it was, again, it was terrible, but later I wrote a slightly better version of that short story, which ended up kind of being chapter one. Um, I miss those books. I wish I could write more of those books. And again, I don't think I'm summarizing them very well.
Speaker 2:You're doing okay. Um, are there, I'll just pause you there and ask, cause I know you've talked in the past about wanting to do a third necromancer book. Do you think it'll ever happen? Cause I would also love for there to be more Sam.
Speaker 3:I want to, I mean, it's definitely, it's, it's possible that cause I think, you know, I've moved publishers it's possible that I will have to stand book myself, which is fine. I don't, you know, I don't mind doing that. A lot of it's coming up with, you know, trying to figure out if I'm going to have to like self publish it or put it out traditionally. Um, and indeed publishing, you know, it's just, it's a lot of work. You're doing a lot of jobs that are writing. No, I have, I have a vague plot for it. I have a title. So it's definitely something that I I'm still thinking about. Um, and I did put out a couple of short stories called freaks and other Fanny as like a Sam story and a Ramon story. And I wrote some other short stuff about them on like patriotic, but definitely planning on doing during the third one. You know, we'll see when, if that happens in a lot of it too, kinda depends on how the next book goes or the people like curses or not. I miss Sam, I miss that world. And I don't like where the second book left, things like that was never my plan of where things were going to stop. And so, um, I feel really bad if you, like, I feel like I did something terrible to readers, even though it was not my intention folks. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I I'm optimistic that someday we'll get to read the third Sam book. What is it? What would the title be?
Speaker 3:The title would be, um, big trouble when the are. And so I would hope that we'd get a little bit of a cameo from some of the characters from Firebug because Firebug is set in the same world. Um, but I don't as you well know, um, I don't really outline very well. And so a lot of books, I kind of have a vague idea of what I'm doing going in and sometimes things change as I'm writing. So even though my plan is to have Ava from Firebug show up, who knows if she actually walked, but I should summarize those books cause I didn't do
Speaker 2:I know. Yeah. Now tell us about fire. And Ava
Speaker 3:Fairmont is about, is about Ava, who is a, um, basically a chiromancer. She can start fires with her mind and she has been bullied into working for a mob style family. That's thrown by a vampire Venus. Again, they're humor based books with basically her, her best friends lock in as rhe, um, fighting crime, essentially accepted they're on the side of crime. So I guess they're fighting either crime, but also perpetrating. I don't know, I haven't thought that far about it, but um, they're set in a small town in Maine, same world of Sam, same sort of found family. That's a big theme. I think in my books, very snarky and lots of things explode, lots of things.
Speaker 2:One of the big like subplots that I remember a lot from the book, I guess it's not really subglottic. It's pretty much the main plot of the book is this idea of Ava and Lacan, Ezra. They're like being
Speaker 3:Forced to work for
Speaker 2:Like a mob essentially, but a mob of like horrible magic
Speaker 3:Physical creatures. And they're all basically doing it to sort of protect their friends and family. I mean, um, a lot of it is Eva trying to figure her way out of it, but also trying to figure out. And I think this is more of the second book, her trying to try and to see her powers as, as things that is not just destructive. I mean, I can do positive things as well, but it's hard when you have something and a big grown up basically being told that, you know, you're a monster getting past that image of yourself, which I think, I think even most of us who are, can't actually start fires of their mind, have that problem growing up, you know, you're going to told negative things about yourself and trying to, as you become an adult, figure out what, you know, what is sort of that background noise that you need to let go and what is stuff that you actually want to see in yourself. And so I think there's a lot of that.
Speaker 2:Definitely. Um, and it's interesting because hearing you talk about the books and when you kind of hear these surface descriptions, I mean there are very serious themes. There's a lot of, um, you know, really not, I guess some dark stuff. Um, but you know, the characters they're trying to deal with and overcome a lot of things.
Speaker 3:And yet they are really funny books. Like
Speaker 2:You're great with comedy, which is one of the things that I love most about your writing. Um, because the things you've come up with are so quirky and so weird, but it works so well within the story
Speaker 3:World that you've created
Speaker 2:Your thoughts on comedy. Like are you trying to make your books funny or is it just heard of your natural writing?
Speaker 3:I think, I think both those things are true. So, um, when I went to my undergraduate was the, uh, very, um, I went to Seattle university, which is a good university and they're, they're very academic and I would turn in papers and I would get in trouble because I am terrible at academic tone because academic tone is serious and they're like, you need to stop making jokes in your papers. I'm like, but I'm not making jokes if you, and they point things out. I'm like that's, but that's just how I talk. And so I think there's a little bit inherent. Like I don't think, I think I could write something. I mean, maybe I could try to write something serious, but I'm not very good at it, but I do, I do bank heavily on humor. And I think a lot of that is humor is an excellent coping mechanism. One of my friends the other day posted like a, something from Twitter that's, you know, did you have a good childhood or are you funny? Yeah, that makes sense. Um, and so for the kids or the teens that I'm writing about who are dealing with awful things, I mean, there's a lot that Sam's dealing with. There's a lot that Ava's dealing with. You have basically two options. You can get really angry and sad, which is fine. Um, or you, or you can laugh at it and try to, and try to take some of the power back because I think that's what laughing at terrible things does it returns to the power back to you. And for me, that's just, that's how my family Cokes with stuff like the worst things are the funnier we get. Um, and it's something I actively studied. I was that weirdo teenager that used to go home and play like comedy record or watch stand up on, um, comedy central and memorized stand up. Cause that's kind of nerd. I am. Um, because I just really realized this really recently, but most stand up, it's also them telling a story. It's them kind of going through the rhythms of story. It's just in joke form. And so you learn a lot about how dialogue sounds listening to stand up. Is it something that they've gone over and over and over, just like with regular writing. And so the similarities are really are really close. And so I think consciously I studied a lot of that. Like my brothers and I used to memorize movies. Cause again, we're nerds. So we still do it. It's my family hates it when we all get together. Cause if my brothers and I are in a room, half of the things we say are just dialogue from movies and it drives some crazy, like my mom, my mom gets mad. Well, we'd like we remember we memorize it. And so I think, um, but it gave me, I think, a good year for, for dialogue. And, um, it does mean that I have a really hard time rendering things that are serious, but humorous something that I've worked on and consciously tried to cultivate. There's not a lot of funny. Um, there's not a lot of funny and young adults and I get it on one hand cause it's a really hard time, you know, a lot of kids like they don't, they don't want to read things that are necessarily Bonnie, but at the same time, there's a huge contingent of them. They get tired of getting all the said, they get a lot of sad and the books you're forced to read for school curriculum during that period of time are just depressing. And I didn't, I didn't want to add, I want to like here, here's some funny things you can read when you're done reading 1984 and you know, all the things that are good. They're good literature and all, but um, depressing. Yeah, right. Um, okay. You have a new book coming out next year on 2021 called curses. And I have of course being with you every step of the way while you've been writing this book and I still haven't gotten to read it, but I'm super, super excited for it. Tell us about curses, curses, the book that tried to kill them. Um,
Speaker 5:Well it's not too late. It can still succeed.
Speaker 3:I'm trying to think I've been working on this book. I think you've put up five books since I've been working on this book. It's set in a diff in a world that's set in a very different world than ours, um, where there are humans, but there's also like mages and um, people that are very born. So people have some fairy blood in them. And then there's like fairy godparents who can curse and grant gifts only if you've read a lot of fairytales, which I know you have, you know, that very gifts are usually they're terrible. They're not, they're not great. They're not really well thought through like, like the fairytale with, uh, what's the girl, when she speaks flowers and jacks come from, there's so many problems with that. She's actually one of the, I made her with a character. So I'm like, that's a terrible gift. I, you know, I get what you're going for their fairy godmother, but that's awful. And so this one it's based around sort of a gender inverted beauty and a beast. So merit is our main character. She's our beast character. And she has been cursed sort of through actions that her mother, her mother was trying to marry her off and she was not into it. And she ended up getting curses and beast. Um, and then our, our male lead Tevin is the beauty of character and he has been gifted with charm. He's very charming. Um, and this can sort of talk people into doing anything that he wants and it helps him. He's very, very pretty, but, um, it's really interesting. It's been fun to kind of play with the gifts and curses aspect and do kind of a funny, a funny fantasy story with all different kinds of weird cause fairytales are deeply weird. I mean, we, I know my, I know my brain is also strange, but there's so much there and like the old Grimms fairy tales and um, some of the old versions of like little red riding hood and things like that, that it leaves you pretty open for all kinds of weirdness. If you're doing Fairdale tropes BME, a lot of the book is basically Marriott is now coming into adulthood and she's either going to become a beast forever. And we would, she would kind of be down with, except that becoming a beast means she's gonna lose her mind. And she's, she's very smart and very pragmatic and she likes her brain. So she wants to keep that or she can get married to someone of her mother's choosing and that's not great. So that's, so she, the beginning, the book is her trying to figure out a way kind of around that or basically coping with it. Um, and at the same time, getting Kevin, the male lead out of jail to help her because he's been incarcerated that point. Yeah. I don't know. There's so many things I really love about it. Some of the characters I'm really excited for people to meet the characters because I've been working on it for a million years.
Speaker 2:You must know them so well,
Speaker 3:I think so, but I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, no, I mean, I remember way back when you first started talking about this book and just that kind of the, the, the heart of the idea that agender, inverted beauty and the beast. Um, I just love that. Um, and then the more that I've heard about it over the years and how you're bringing in these other fairytale and spirit inspired characters who have different curses and, you know, quote unquote gifts that maybe aren't always gifts. Um, I just think it's so clever. And, and I know that it will be hysterical because I know you and your books and your writing, um, what was it about beauty and the beast that kind of felt like it was going to lend itself to the, the kind of being the main, uh, soul of the story?
Speaker 3:I, you know, honestly, I think a lot of it was just based on the fact that beauty and the beast is one of my favorite fairytales, even though it's so problematic. Like, yeah. I mean, it's basically like this girl gets treated for something her father did, you know, it doesn't seem particularly fair. And in this story, besides the creepy factor of the beast keeps asking her to marry him. He's just a nice guy. He's just hideous. He looks in a monstrous and everything. And so, um, I don't know, I've always been drawn to characters that I feel like didn't get, I didn't get a good shake. And so with being in the beast, I think these are two characters that you're never really told the original why the beast is basically like they don't give you anything. There's more, if you look into sort of the, um, piece of the sun West of the moon variations, you get a little bit more there, but you're not really like why that character is a, B, C cause he's again, except for the creepy marry me, marry me thing over and over again, like a decent guy he's got servants. That's great. Um, whereas beauty's family is awful on every level. Um, and so there's a lot, there is a lot of interesting things. And then when you flip it, that to me is very interesting. I'm like what, because beauty is also one of those gifts that everyone kind of seems to want. Not realizing that, you know, there's a, there's a dark edge to that too. There's a lot of, a lot of, um, a lot of doors get open to you if you're a beautiful person, but a lot of them get shot too. And so I think, you know, that that sort of thing interested me sort of played in well with, um, kind of setting up this world that we're, this is common, you know, with I have, I have a troll Prince in there. I have, what else do I have in there? The girl that gets her hands stuck to the goose. Again, fairytales are weird. There's so much there there's, um, character that he mostly got cut out, but I think it'd be more than the second one with, um, a groom shim who has a toad on his head. And if he doesn't keep it fed, it will eat his face, which is it's a fairytale. Um, but what I did was made it, so sham is actually really loves the toad. Like they're their friends and he gets worried about it. If at one point the toe goes missing and he's like, there's no one to feed him. Who's going to take care of him. Um, and I've always, I think, you know, this well, I like playing with that expectation of here's how you think it's going to go, but what happens if we flip it? You know, the character that looked like a monster, what is not a monster or the character that looks really normal, what is an awful person? And so I've always sort of liked that playing with image because I think as people, you know, we, we do have that characteristic to judge something based on how it looks, which evolutionarily speaking makes sense. You know, you have to look at something really quickly and decide, is this a danger to me? Is this a friendly thing? You know, whatever, but as intelligent people, we also have to kind of look beyond that initial impression. And so, um, I like, I like twisting around with that. And so I think this story gave me a lot of fodder, but again, I, some of it might boil down to the fact that in the Disney beauty and the beast, that huge library that we all wanted, we have a library in your book. Yes. Okay, good. Yeah. There's definitely big library. Yeah. Oh, good, good. I, yeah, these days beating the beast in the big library, just so cool. Um, and I like how you mentioned, like this idea that beauty can also be a curse. Um, because I feel like for beautiful people, it's so easy to kind of have your self worth, get wrapped up in that. Um, and to kind of question and doubt what else you might be bringing to the table. Um, so I, I, I also like that theme in fiction when I think too, that there are a lot of times where, you know, for, for women, whether you're listened to, or not, like if it's a really, if it's, if it's someone that looked sort of that traditionally pretty, you know, all this stuff, people might not listen to them as much in a sense, cause like, Oh, you're pretty, but we expect you to be smart. Like you can't vote somehow, which is bonkers. They're not connected in any way. Right. And so, yeah, I think, um, with, as with anything there's always, there's downsides to every, every plus that you get and there, yeah. A lot of things do happen. Like there've been studies, like you're pretty personal. You get a lot of things your way, but at the same time, yeah. I can definitely be thinking negative. Well, I'm super excited to read it. I'm glad that it's finally coming out. Um, it's not available for preorder yet, is it not yet? But I think it will be soon-ish maybe as you know, I'm kind of a big nerd for indie bookstore. So hopefully people will think of them when they're ordering, but, and, or, you know, I don't know when they put up library holds, but again, that was one of those big things for me. Like when my first book came out, I would sometimes go on the library website and see how many people had so wonderful to me. Cause I was like, read it and I just, I love libraries so much. That's a special thing for sure. Look at list. Yeah. Okay. We are gonna wrap this up with the happy writer lightning round. Okay. First question. What book makes you happy? That's a terrible question. I have a really hard time with that like favorite book type question. Um, what makes me happy the, see, this is the first thing that comes to mind folks, you know, a book series and be happy is, um, Terry Pratchett's Discworld was always, always make me laugh. Um, um, especially as Tiffany aching books, like the ones with the teen, which essentially, um, it was books. They're funny, they're funny. And they're smart. What do you do to celebrate an accomplishment? You know, I'm really, I'm really bad at this. Um, I think these feel really uncomfortable celebrating. I think, I think I have a tendency to downplay accomplishments, which is why, why would I do that? Um, and so that's something I've been working on, honestly, trying to celebrate each little thing that happens with the book stuff. Um, and so I don't have a good answer. My grades, I'm hoping with the next book, I will come out things that are, because I think you're really good at celebrating stuff when it happens to you. Um, and I needed to be better at that because honestly we spend so much time, I think, in this business kind of getting bombarded with the negative aspects that like, why would I not celebrate when the good things has happened? It just seems like a weird and unbalanced way to go about things. And so maybe I'll ask you, and then when the book comes out, what can I do, Marissa, I'm a proponent for celebrating all the things and not even just like the big things, like yes, when a book comes
Speaker 2:Out in launch day that I should absolutely be celebrated, but I celebrate like every time I finish a draft and every time I see my cover art and like, I really try to not make a big deal, but like find some small way to be like, okay, this is an accomplishment. Let's take a moment to
Speaker 3:Recognize that. Um, and I think it's because we have, we have a tendency, especially once you get sort of used to it, like, you know, fast pass that kind of first book glow, um, you're sort of like, well maybe, maybe this shouldn't be a big deal now, but it is every time you accomplish a draft or anything like that, it should be a big deal. And it's something that I tell other writers they should be doing. And so it seems kind of bizarre that they don't do it myself, but
Speaker 2:I know you told me before we started this recording that you just got, um, new edits from your editor, um, for this next round of revisions. Um, so let's decide now, what are you going to do to celebrate when you turned in turn in this round of revision?
Speaker 3:I don't know. Cause like locked down. So what can I do? I'm very good at taking a day off and reading. Usually there's one pile of books, but maybe, maybe I will decide on a signature cocktail and make myself a cocktail because I have not had one since I've been in quarantine,
Speaker 2:Perfect plan, make yourself a signature cocktail and read a book for it.
Speaker 3:Wow. That sounds good.
Speaker 2:Excellent. Glad we got that solved. But what advice would you give to help someone become a happier writer?
Speaker 3:Happy to see this? That's the thing too is I think, um, I think it's really easy when you're writing to forget that you originally, you did this cause you, you like it. And then remembering that it is in a way play where you're playing and that's not, um, saying anything negative about writing. I think art is important, but a lot of that comes about through playing. And I think that we sort of minimalize how important that is for humans. That play is very important. Um, and so just trying to remind yourself why you got into this to begin with like what brought you to it? Um, not taking yourself seriously in some respects is helpful. A lot of, a lot of writers, I know stress themselves out by setting goals. And then when they don't meet them, even though the goals might have nothing to do with them in the sense of like, I'll be published by the time I'm 25 and it's like, well, that's not just on you, that's on a business and things that change and the factors you can't control. So I think being gentle with yourself is really good. Um, and the best advice I actually got, which of only tangentially has to do with writing, but I had a writing professor, um, before my first book came out, was talking to me about, um, how a lot of writers think that getting published will solve their problems. She's like, if you have anything else in your life, that's hard for you to deal with that's upsetting or whatever. Um, do you not think that publishing is going to that? She's like, you know, go find a counselor, go figure out ways to process. She said, but the only thing getting published with solves is the problem of not being published, everything else, the stress of it. Cause there are some stressful things about publishing, um, even good stress, uh, exacerbates, any problem you have before. So if you're thinking it's going to make you happy on its own. Um, I mean it, it isn't, it isn't. And so I thought that was really great because it made me sort of take a hard look at what issues I was having and kind of, and kind of be prepared for that because I think a lot of friends that I had thought that publishing would then make them happy. And then when it wasn't, it wasn't magic because it's like any other business as good as the beds. Um, it was really upsetting for them. And so I think sort of keeping that in mind and you know, trying to approach it from a point of view of this is this is fun. Yeah. It's work, but it is also fun. And keeping that in mind, even in the days where the book is trying to kill you. No, that's, that's excellent advice. Um, I know so many aspiring writers and for me too, when I was aspiring, you know, you kind of see getting published as the end points. Uh, it is the goal. Um, but it's really not, you know, it's it's, if anything, it's just another starting line. Uh, lastly, where can people find you right now at my house? Don't find it. Yeah. Um, virtually where can people find me? Oh, there was a weird invitation to the internet. Um, mostly on Twitter and Instagram. I tend to prefer Instagram. I feel like it's a more cheerful place. Um, if you wanted to see pictures of my dog, definitely go to Instagram. Um, when I'm on there, I'm on, I have a Patriot on page. Um, so there's people that are listening that really liked former books and that's a good place to go because I don't take things down after I'm done with them. And so there's all kinds of short stories with Sam and Ava and newer stuff I'm working on. Cause I usually have a novel that I'm writing on there, separate from what I'm working on in professional life. So I have to juggle projects. I don't know if you have to do this, but I can't work on one thing at a time. I have like one main project and then I usually have little things that I'm kind of working on as well. Cause I I'm more productive that way. The one I'm doing on Patrion right now is actually, I did a short story on tour.com a couple years ago, called heads will roll. That's about a doll Curry, a half Valkyrie named Lena and her battle unicorn, Steve, um, it's free on the website. You can it, but I
Speaker 2:Really liked those characters and I wanted to do more with them. And so the novel I'm working on with that is following lean on Steve. Um, that's the one I'm on Patrion right now. I don't have a title for it yet, which is weird. Usually I have a ton first, but so people go check out Alicia's Patrion page for so many extra goodies. Thank you for joining me today. Lisha was so great to hear your voice. Good to hear you too. I miss I miss going to go right with you. And I look forward to the day that we can actually get to leave our houses and see people in her life. Me too very much readers, definitely check out licious books, um, the necromancer and Firebug series and keep your eye out for curses coming next year. Uh, and of course more than ever, if you can support your local independent bookstore, we always encourage you to do so. Please subscribe to this podcast. So you will always be in the know about new episodes. You can find me on Instagram at Marissa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy and cozy out there and your bunkers and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling a little bit
Speaker 1:[inaudible].