Marissa chats with Kit Frick about her newest mystery thriller I KILLED ZOE SPANOS, as well as balancing two different timelines in one narrative, one clever method for conveying exposition to your readers, organizing pre-launch promo tasks, and the rise of true-crime podcasts.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa chats with Kit Frick about her newest mystery thriller I KILLED ZOE SPANOS, as well as balancing two different timelines in one narrative, one clever method for conveying exposition to your readers, organizing pre-launch promo tasks, and the rise of true-crime podcasts.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books, to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I'm your host, Marissa Meyer. Thanks so much for joining me today. One thing that has been making me happy is that over the past three weeks, my family and I have been on three hikes, which is a world record for us. Um, my husband and I have been saying, since we were dating that someday, we're going to be the sort of people that go on hikes. We love being outdoors, right? Uh, and yet, somehow it never came to fruition. But now that so many of our normal family activities are off limits. We bought ourselves a book about great hikes in the Pacific Northwest that you can go on with kids and we've started checking off some of those recommended hikes and it's been great. And the girls get so excited to see snails and slugs and deer and chipmunks. And so it's been a really fun, kind of different thing for us to go out and explore this beautiful corner of the world that we're in. What else is making me happy today? Of course, talking to today's guest. She is an editor, a poet, and the author of three young adult thrillers, all eyes on us. See all the stars and her most recent. I killed Zoe spinosa, which just hit shelves this last June. Please. Welcome kit Frick. Maresa thanks for having me. Thank you so much. I'm so glad that you could be here. Congratulations on the recent launch of I killed Zoe spinosa. Thank you so much. How was life in your bunker? Um, it is going pretty well. I am just coming down from that sort of book release high. Um, as we're recording the, book's been out for a little over a week. It'll probably be longer by the time you were all listening to this. Um, but I'm also hoping to get out on a hike this weekend. Um, we have plans to go hiking to a swimming hole on Sunday. So keep your fingers crossed for us, but the weather holds, Oh, fun. Do you go hiking a lot? We don't go hiking frequently, but it is something that we usually do at least once or twice every summer, my husband and I like hiking, but neither of us are super athletic. So it's really more like, you know, nature walking is more of our speed. Um, but, uh, but yeah, I do enjoy it and I'm hoping that, uh, we're not going to get thunderstorms in the middle of our plan type. Oh yeah. I mean, that would make it eventful. It would no, no good luck. I hope you have wonderful weather and I hope you enjoy, are you actually going to go into the swimming hole? Is that the plan? Yes. We're going with, um, a couple of friends, um, that are here in Pittsburgh, which is where I am. Um, and we are taking bathing suits and hoping to do some socially distance hiking and swimming. So yeah, I'm looking forward. That sounds awesome. Um, I'm jealous. I'm going to have to look through our book and see if there's a recommended hike. That includes a swimming hole. That's so much fun. Yeah. Yeah. My girls would totally get a kick out of that. Um, cool. Uh, okay. So let's start out with you telling listeners, what is your new book I killed Zoe span us about, I've been telling everyone that I killed Zoe span. O's is young adult. Rebecca sat in the Hamptons with a true crime podcast. Um, it is the story of Anna who comes out to the Hamptons for a summer nanny job. By the end of that summer, she winds up walking into the police station in the town where she's been nannying and confessing to playing a role in the death of a missing local team. So we span out and none of that is a spoiler because the book has written non chronologically. So we get Anna's confession in the very first chapter. And the question then becomes, did Anna really kills Zoe? Um, and if not, why is she lying? And there is another local teen Martina green, who is the best friend of the little sister of Zoe. And she has been producing a podcast that sets out to find out what really happened to Zoe and her podcast picks up where the police investigation winds down. So following Anna's confession, Martina dives back in to that podcast and is trying to get to the bottom of, in a story and what really happened to Zoe. So one of the things that I noticed as I'm reading the book, you know, for me, I mean, and I imagine all writers are like this to some degree when you're reading a book, you can't help, but think, you know, Oh, if I were to write this book, I might plan to do X, Y, Z, or you start speculating. You know, I think the author is going to take it this direction, or I think it's going to, this is what's going to happen. This is what she's planning. And with this, with this book, I was at such a loss as to possibly going to wrap these things up. I didn't even have a theory. I couldn't even pose a guess as to how these two opposing storylines were going to come together in a way that made sense. And yet by the end of the book, it worked. Um, so applause so well, mission accomplished. Thank, you know, I would truly, I was, I was baffled thinking there's no way. And, and just, you know, it's so such a cool reveal at the end, which we obviously won't, won't say what it is we won't dive into, but you'll have to read it to find out.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's the idea. Um, but, okay.
Speaker 2:So take me through your writing process as far as, how did you organize these two various storylines? Um, how did you figure out what to reveal and when, you know, how did you go about writing this book? Cause it feels like there was just so many little details kind of adding up over the story and they were all spaced out and paste really, really well. Oh, thank you. Uh, well the book is a bit of a jigsaw puzzle and it, it was a really fun challenge to put together. Um, I started with I, what I like to call a story map. It's a kind of outline, but it's not a very detailed outline on a scene level. Um, because I was writing in two different timelines, two different points of view. And then also this podcast narrative that was woven in, I really needed to have a sort of big picture of what the structure of the book would look like. Um, so I will just give myself usually one or two lines about each chapter in my outline, which is why I call it more of a map than a, than an outline or summary because I leave a lot of room for development as I'm drafting, but I do need to figure out how these two timelines are going to beat together how the podcast is going to come into play. Who's point of view, different chapters are going to be from, and those sorts of things. And obviously when you're drafting, I mean, maybe this is not obvious, maybe for some writers, you really stick 100% to your outlines. I'm not one of those writers. I do make changes as I go, but it's necessary for me to have some sort of map when I'm writing something that is non chronological, especially, and does have so many moving pieces. So that's how it got started. I'm curious, did you write the book more or less in the order that we read it or did you read like the then chapters and then the now chapters? That is a great question. I, so I will answer it and then give you context for why.
Speaker 3:Okay. So I wrote it, I wrote it
Speaker 2:Exactly in the order in which it appears in the block. So it was written in the order that you read it, I'm flashing back to my debut novel, see all the stars. That book is also in two timelines. Um, it alternates between then and now chapters. And it has that book follows a very strictly alternating chapter structure. I killed Zoe's fan. I was just not, when I wrote see all the stars, I wrote the entire past timeline first, and then I wrote the entire present timeline and then I wove them together. And I knew from the beginning that the book would alternate. It wasn't as if I thought that I came to the conclusion later, that it would be a non chronological structure. I knew that from the beginning, but I didn't as a, as a pretty inexperienced writer at that point, I didn't know how to write the present timeline without discovering for myself everything that would happen in the past timeline in detail. So I couldn't figure out how to write any of that material before I'd written the first timeline. And I think that was the way it had to be written because that's where I was as a writer at that point. But then I set up for myself this giant challenge and revision because there was no, there were no transition points between the chapters. There was nothing, there was no connectivity, no flow. Um, and it took a huge amount of work in revision to get the book to actually read rather seamlessly alternating between then and now. And so from that point forward, the second book that I wrote all eyes on us was two points of view. And then I killed Zoe Spanos. That was like, let's give it two points of view and two timelines and podcasts just, you know, keep it, keep throwing other structural challenges that myself. But I learned from that first experience that it is better for me to write in the order in which chapters will be read in the book and to do more work on the front end in terms of outlining and planning so that I'm able to do that. Um, and then not that each book hasn't had its own revision challenges, but at least they haven't had the challenge of having new flow. Now that's really interesting that it's funny hearing you talk about it. Cause I currently am working on my first novel that we'll have to alternating timelines also, not a, not a mystery, not a thriller I'm. So I don't think I'm going to have quite the same challenges, but I've pretty much like I'm at this very early stage where I've outlined the past storyline and outlined the current storyline and I'm thinking, okay, now what do I do? Do I just write one and then write the other, do I bounce back and forth anyway? So I love hearing kind of how you've grown and how your process changed between writing the books. Well, I will tell you it's possible certainly to do it both ways, but in my experience, if you can write it in the order in which it should be read, that is the, I think, I think the easier way to do it. Um, you get more, you do more work on the front end, but I'll be interested to hear how you end up approaching it. Yeah, me too.
Speaker 4:Interesting.
Speaker 2:Okay. I'll get back to you once I figure it out. Exactly. You talked about how you had the book, very minimal outline, um, but kind of had your plot points more or less figured out. But then as you're writing things do tend to change and new things crop up, um, which is very similar to me. I also an outline writer, but things are always changing, you know, as I'm actually getting to know the story and getting to know the characters. Was there ever a point where as you're writing Zoe span O's did you ever feel like you'd gotten your characters into a corner that you hadn't been expecting and that Oh, no. Now what do I do? Ooh. Um, I feel like I have hit that moment with every draft that I've worked on of every block. Um, there's always a point where you, for instance, and so this isn't directly answering it for Zoe's banjos. Cause I can't remember that specific moment. Although I have to say it must've happened at least once, if not more times in the drafting process, but right now in the, uh, in my work in progress novel that I'm working on, I had something jotted down in my outline for, and this will give you an idea of how I outlined. So it says, you know, in the scene, um, the character is revealed to have been lying about something, but is he lying because of X or Y reason? And so I'm reading this and saying, Oh yeah, okay. I remember why I put that in the outline. And I do want to pass doubt on this character in this scene, but what lie is he? I can't figure out what lie he's telling and how I'm going to do it. So I've hit this bit of a wall where I'm now setting it aside until tomorrow, because I need to just like have it in the, you know, in the back of my brain until I figure out what that line is going to be and how I'm going to achieve this plot point, that I've set out for myself in the outline. So I feel like I'll figure it out. Like I'm not, and not in panic mode about it, but, um, yes, there are always moments where I will outline that something needs to happen in advance, but I haven't figured out about the details. And then either one of two things happens in drafting either that magical thing happens where you just discover it as you're drafting and you come up with something that is much better than you probably would have conceived of. If you would try to work out every bitty detail at the outlining stage, or you realize you may have outsmarted yourself, like I have done at this point, and then you have to take a step back and figure out, is there a way to make this work and the way in which I intended or do I need to go down a different path to, uh, you know, achieve the same result in a different way or turn a corner. I love those magical moments when the plot reveals something, as you're writing it that you hadn't considered. And it's like, Oh my subconscious must've been brewing that all along. I know. And then you're like, Oh, I'm such a genius.
Speaker 3:Look at me. Clever. I am. Yeah. So when you're stuck
Speaker 2:On something like this, this issue that you're working through on your current novel right now, uh, what is your strategy? I mean, do you just sit back and take a nap and go for a walk and hope that it reveals itself? Do you brainstorm, like what are, what are some of the tech tactics that you use to try to get through that? Well, today I was writing, I was writing out on my patio. Um, even though it's a million degrees here right now, I just was feeling cooped up in the house. Um, so I needed to go out and walk my dog before I was recording a happy writer with you. So I hit a point where I was at a, at a time constraint. So I had to stop writing because I had to go take the dog out and then, you know, have this, uh, podcast commitment. So sometimes that's good because it then forces me to put the story away for a little while and focus on other things in life. And so my hope is by the time I returned to the draft tomorrow morning, because I usually have my longest writing sessions on weekends and tomorrow is Saturday. Um, something will have magically appeared overnight. So we'll see if that actually happens. Um, and often it does when it's kind of a small plot problem. Like this is if I'm feeling really stuck though, my strategy is usually the tried and true filling the Wells strategy of just dipping into other people's stories for a while. Um, I will listen to, I listen to a ton of true crime podcasts. I'll go, you know, binge a podcast or watch something on Netflix or read a book. And usually something, you know, it'll, something will come to me that is entirely through something that's an entirely unrelated to my story, but through just letting my mind play around in other people's creativity, some solution will come and I don't know how that happens, but it's worked for me many times in the past. So I'm sticking with it. I'm sure neuroscientists have an answer. Yeah. To me, it's magic.
Speaker 3:It's the magic.
Speaker 2:Um, let's talk about podcasts and true crime podcasts, uh, because obviously the, the story of Zoe span as there is a podcast subplot, one of the main characters is creating this podcast. And I love that. I thought it was such a brilliant way of kind of tackling some of your exposition, which is a challenge for a lot of writers figuring out, well, how do I convey all of this backstory? How do I convey these different connections between these characters, especially to someone like Anna who's coming into this town, not really knowing anybody and having to get that information to the readers. And it works so well. And like right now, I feel like we're in such a, a Renaissance of wonderful podcast and true crime podcasts, which I am so hooked on. Where did that idea come from and how, how did you go about working the podcast angle into the story? Was it something that was there from the beginning? Did it reveal itself later? How did that come about? The podcast was there from the beginning? Um, my, my sort of driving question when the idea for this book was first developing was what if I, so I just, I just re-read Rebecca, um, which is one of my favorite classic novels. And I had been thinking, what if Rebecca de winter, who is the missing woman character in that novel? What if she had gone missing today in the heyday of true crime podcasting? How would that story be told differently when this wealthy, privileged society woman goes missing, that would clearly attract media attention. And so I then thought, okay, you know, how do I make this story, young adults? And what can I borrow from Rebecca and still make this completely my own novel. It's not a retelling. It is inspired by Rebecca. There are lots of Easter eggs and little milestones from Rebecca, but it follows its own plot. Um, it's, I think retelling is far too specific of a word to describe what this is, I would say inspired by for sure. Um, but in any event, so I had the idea for, you know, Rebecca in the age of the podcast. And then I think what you're saying about exposition, that's so true and also didn't even occur to me until you said that. So that's one of those magical things where yes, of course the podcast serves as a vehicle for giving the reader, forgiving Anna, all of the background on this character who has disappeared before the point where the story starts and yes, you're right. It's so effective. And clearly I had that entirely intended from the beginning, but no, the truth is I really didn't think about how narratively that would work as a very effective tool for exposition. But in fact, it does, I was more just fascinated with creating my own true crime podcast, fictional, true crime podcasts for this book. And, um, I really loved playing around with developing it because I listened to so many of them that it really felt like I was getting to write in a different form while still staying safely within the realm of fiction. But as if I was writing the script for a podcast, well, I could tell that you listened to a lot of them. Um, because it just reading the words on the page. I could hear those characters, voices and the, like the intro music and all of it came across so clearly. Um, so you could really tell that you are, you were a fan of the genre and that's, and I love that true crime podcasts are one of the few things that my husband and I can agree to listen on to when we're like on long road. Yeah. Same. What are some of your favorites? Um, so I love the investigative podcasts. Um, I will say that, you know, it's not a, it's not a completely level playing field in terms of quality. There are so many true crime podcasts out there now, after, after that first season of serial dropped, um, you know, five, six years ago, there's just been this explosion. And, um, you know, I think that it's certainly an imperfect genre. There are two crime podcasts that seek to exploit and sensationalize and you know, I'm not a, I'm not a equal opportunity fan of all podcasts, but when it's a journalist that really gets it right, then I love it. Um, one of my favorites from the past couple of years is called bear Brook. Uh, have you listened to that one? No, I haven't heard of it. I'm writing it down. Bear. Yes. So it's named after the podcast is named after bear Brook, state park and New Hampshire. And the podcast is put out by New Hampshire public radio. Um, it came out about a year and a half ago, I believe. And it is an investigative podcast that follows the story of the discovery of two identical two unidentified victims found in an oil drum on the outskirts of their work state park. And then another barrel was found with more unidentified victims. And I've heard of this. It was a big case because it brings like genetic genealogy comes into play with solving the identities of these victims. Um, and it is just a fascinating, really well done podcast. So that's, that's my, that's my style with two con podcasts. I also have a few conversation style podcasts where it's like just discussion of a case, um, that I really enjoy. There's one that's out right now called women in crime, which is done by two criminologists who it's very much my favorite murder style, where it's, uh, you know, one woman telling the other woman the story of this true crime. But instead of being done by comedians, it's being done by criminologists. So you can imagine the tone is quite different. Um, and I think they do a really great job. Um, and yeah, there are so many I have. Um, if you, if you do do show notes, um, not really. I was going to say I, if you do show notes, I have, uh, a article recently where I recommend a bunch of podcasts that I could send you, but I'll just send it to you personally, and then you can have it and everyone else will just have to find it online. I can retweet it or something. Yeah, for sure. So before we move on, cause I have some other things that I wanted to talk to you about other than just always span us, uh, in podcasts. Um, but before I move on, I have to say the book, like the physical book I killed Zoe Spanish is a beautiful, the design of it is so great. Yeah. I won the, uh, the cover and production design lottery with this block. Yeah, no, they went all out and there's a lot of things that I feel get reserved for like big fantasy books, um, like the, the painted edges on the book and the, and all of that. And you, you got both for this murder mystery, which I think is so cool. Yeah, it is. It is super cool. Um, my publisher really did a phenomenal job. Um, yes. And I love that it has a map of the town. I love that too. Right. I mean, we, we were liars has a map and I cannot think of another contemporary thriller or mystery that has one. Yeah. Cause we were layers also in the Hamptons. No, it's on a, it's on a private Island. I think that's if I remember correctly, but it's also like an exclusive beach area. Yeah. Fancy swanky homes. Yeah. How did you feel when you first held this book and saw just how gorgeous it was going to be in person? Um, I felt super relieved because I had, so I, I was asked to film a variety of promotional videos for this book, from my publisher and my Canadian publisher in Barnes and noble. Everyone wanted a promo video and I didn't have the book. And because the finished, finished copies are always, I think, late in my experience, like super up to the wire and arriving to authors and especially with the pandemic, there are all sorts of shipping delays. And so I had, um, really wanted to highlight those special features, like the sprayed edges and the map in, you know, at least some of these videos that I was doing. And I was coming up on the deadline for when I had to film them. And my editor had ordered my copies from the warehouse like two weeks ago when she didn't have any tracking information from this other warehouse that they're using during the pandemic. And she was like, I don't know, kit, I don't know if they're gonna make it. And then she had this brilliant idea to ask the production designer who was the only person that had a physical copy of the book because of course everyone's working from home right now. It's, I'm an energy star. And so there's no just like, you know, copies sitting around in the office. And so she had the great idea of asking the production designer to overnight it to me. And so it got to me like one single copy. He got to me just in time to film these videos that were due the next day. So I think I was more relieved than anything else. And then when I got my whole box of copies the next week, I literally staged a photo shoot where I'm just bathing and I saw that picture so great. Well that actually segues really nicely. Cause I don't know if it was that picture that you put on Instagram or one of your other posts. Um, but I remember in one of your captions, you had this wonderful, uh, discussion about how you said, you know, you feel very grateful about all of the wonderful buzz and wonderful publicity that this book is getting, um, at the same time. And I think this is like, must've been right before launch day. You mentioned how you were starting to feel very overwhelmed and like there's, you know, a lot of tasks, a lot of to do's on your list, just a lot going on. And I get to that point, you know, every time a new book is coming out, you know, it's all or nothing. There's these ebbs and flows and whenever new book is coming out, I feel like I'm just running around, can't think straight there's so much to do so much that I have to get done and it is very overwhelming. Um, so I wanted to ask now that you're past that you're, you're, you've emerged on the other side of your launch week and can kind of look back on that period. How, how do you feel like you ended up tackling those, those two dues? Um, do you have any advice for maybe, uh, someone who might be feeling very overwhelmed who might be going through the same thing? Yeah, so I think, you know, this is, this is something that we don't talk about. I think enough as authors because it's kind of a champagne problem to have the many asks and right. And it's certainly, and it's not something that I have encountered in a, um, in the same way for every book I killed. Zoe Spanish is my third. And it's the first book that has been a big lead title with my publisher. And, you know, I feel like when I frequently get, um, you know, it frequently gets mentioned to me by others, Oh, your book is getting so much buzz. I love seeing it, all these places, et cetera. And I want to be very Frank about the fact that I hope that it's getting buzzed because the book is genuinely really good, of course. Um, but also one of the reasons that it's getting so much fuzz is because my publisher is really putting a lot of weight behind it in a way that I can tell is different from my first two books. And I'm experiencing for the first time, how that looks and feels different to have a lead title. And I'm of course wonderful. And I have no complaints about it, but it does mean that in the lead up to launch, instead of, you know, for my first two books, I would walk out like a week to knock out various blogger, Q and A's. And you know, the one promotional video that my publisher had asked for and that sort of thing. And for this book, it was like, okay, I am shutting down my freelance business for a month and a half and I am putting my other writing projects on hold right now. And I'm kind of full time launching this book for a few weeks. And that's amazing. And I feel extremely, extremely privileged and grateful to be in that position with this book. But it did also mean that I had to be super organized to get, you know, the eight promotional videos instead of one that were asked for this book, et cetera done. And so I have a spreadsheet. I come from a background in academic administration. That was my day job for many years before I transitioned into writing and freelance full time. So I have a spreadsheet that I keep for all my publicity asks to do date the expected live post date, so I can keep an eye out for it and boost it online when whatever it is, comes out, whether it's a podcast and recording or a Q and a that I've done or whatever it is. And then I also keep details. Cause sometimes they're very long lead times on these things, a blogger might ask you to do a Q and a, you know, three months in advance of when it's due. And so you've got the questions just hanging around in your inbox. So then I also keep notes of, you know, where I have the information store. What's the email that came from, is it something that I'm sending directly back to a book blog or is it something I'm sending to my publicist or to my editor? Like where did it come from, et cetera. So, yeah, I mean being hyper organized is kind of my go to strategy for life. And it definitely definitely comes into play when it comes to book staff, but I had spreadsheets like this, my other books, and there would be like 10 items on this one on, you know, each spreadsheet. And then for this one, it got to that point where I, whenever that was a week or so before launch that you found that Instagram post where I was like, wow, I don't know if I'm actually going to get all this done. And I did. Um, but it was definitely hitting that point of a little bit of overdrive. Um, so yeah, and now, um, the book is out, that's super exciting because I feel like most of those, um, two dues are behind me and I can kind of just ask in the book, being out a little bit. And so that's wonderful. That's a good feeling. And now you're back to writing. Yes. Yes. I feel like, cause I, I often do the same thing we're about the month or so before a book comes out, it's like, okay, pause on the writing or whatever else is going on, focus on promoting. And, but then by the time the book comes out, I'm so desperate to get back to writing. I always realize how much I missed it when I wasn't actually doing it. Did you feel that same way? Oh, definitely. Um, you know, and again like champagne problems, but, um, it is, it takes a whole different kind of energy to promote a book than it does to write it. It's almost like two separate jobs. It really is two separate. It's bizarre. It's like the writing is so, um, is so solitary and quiet and prolonged over the course of, you know, many weeks and months when it comes to both drafting and revision. And then you have to put on this very public face to promote and it's like, Oh, I, to be almost a completely different person enabled in order to do this effectively. And it is, it is exhausting, especially I think right now, when in addition to just, you know, being my usual quiet writer self we've also been mostly staying at home and having so many fewer in person interactions with others for months. And so to switch over these past few weeks to suddenly having so many more online events and, uh, and podcasts, and I've been going to bookstores to sign stock. And so, you know, figuring out like what is a safe way to do that right now and having sometimes awkward interactions with lovely booksellers who are saying, Oh, should we invite the public to come for a signing? And I'm saying, no, not right now, love it times were different to actually arrange an event, but, um, I just want to pop into your store and sign my books and run away. And, um, you know, all of that just takes, um, just takes a lot of energy and it's exciting and fun, and I'm glad that it's part of release, but it's also, there's such a solace in going back to drafting after you've done a lot of that. Yeah, no. Agreed. Um, and also, I mean, I think self promotion in general kind of comes with its own weird awkwardness and it can be really hard to try to just constantly talk about yourself and talk about this thing that you created. And I think a lot of us ended up feeling very weird and salesy about it. And so again, hard to, to do that for weeks at a time. Um, and then at the end of it, to get to kind of retreat back into your cave and be like, okay, I'm just going to go back with my imaginary friends and hanging out over here. Yes. I'm already looking forward to my social media hiatus. That will be on the horizon after, in the next couple of weeks after, after I'm truly done with the, with the online events that I'm doing for the Spock, I'm like, Oh, I can't wait.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Speaker 2:We are going to wrap this up with our happy writer, lightning round. Okay. Question one. What book makes you happy? Uh, the woman in cabin 10 by Ruth Ware makes me happy because it is such a perfectly crafted psychological suspense. It also makes me a little angry that I didn't write it, but you know, it's one of those books where you're like, Oh, it's so perfect. I wish I'd come up with this, but of course I never gonna add. Um, and where did it brilliantly? I had never heard of it. So I've just wrote that down. You've given me all sorts of things to check out. It's not, it's not Yia, it's a, it's an adult market, a psychological suspense, but it is fantastic. Awesome. What do you do to celebrate an accomplishment? My favorite thing, we have a, we have a high, low, um, celebration strategy in our household. So my favorite thing to do when it's like the day you get good news is to go out to five guys for burgers and then come home and pop a bottle of bubbly. Nice, perfect, perfect combination. If I killed Zoe span, I was had a theme song. What would it be? Ooh, had a theme song. Um, I think C as chandelier, uh, I would probably pick for Anna's theme song. Um, Anna was a kind of party girl before she came out to the Hamptons and she is, uh, coming, coming to this job to sort of turn over a new leaf. Um, but I think that chandelier sort of echoes her, uh, her portable past and perhaps how she was involved in Zoe's death. 10, 10, 10. Okay. Inspired by the book, which has a ice cream parlor, which said with some delicious sounding nice cream flavors. I so wanted to go to that ice cream parlor. I know me too. Let's go right now. What is your favorite flavor of ice cream? Oh, um, well chocolate is probably my favorite flavor of ice cream. Um, but I'm gonna cheat and go for two on the slight like lightning round answer because I have a very close second, which is mint chocolate chip classics, classics. What advice would you give to help someone become a happier writer? Um, I'm gonna contextualize this by saying that I think this is great advice, but also very difficult to achieve advice. So it's probably gonna contain a caveat. So the advice is to keep your eyes on your own paper, which is I think an excellent strategy because comparison truly is the thief of joy when it comes to writing and publishing and looking around at what other books are getting at, what other authors are getting and what you're not getting is the easiest way I think, to send yourself into an unhappiness spiral. But it's also really hard to keep your eyes on your own paper. Um, I will admit that it's something I'm not particularly good at, even though I know that it's the healthiest strategy. So I think that I will, my caveat is do it to the extent that is possible for you. And also, I don't think it's unhealthy to kind of stay aware of the things that are out there that are possibilities for your book and for future books, because it does from a business perspective, I think put you in a better position to have Frank conversations with your agent and your editor about what you want to push for in, you know, this book or a future title. And so it's not, it's not like be an ostrich and just stick your head in the sand and don't, um, don't even pay any attention to accolades or less, or, you know, anything like that. But to the extent that you can celebrate the accomplishments of your friends and not compare everything to yourself, I think that is definitely the way to be a happier writer. I think that's amazing advice. Um, and it can be easier said than done, but, uh, yeah, I think being able to be really happy and excited for other writers. And like you say, at the same time, not feel like you're comparing yourself to in your career to them is one of the big secrets I feel it is. And it's such a, it's such a difficult one to unlock. I think that it's something that I have to keep reteaching myself all the time. Um, but it's, it's important. Yeah. And I also, I mean, I feel like jealousy is, can be a helpful tool. Um, you know, if it kind of shows you what it is that you yourself want to reach for, um, you know, you need to use it to boost yourself forward rather than tear other people down. I think, I think that's exactly right. Um, it's, you know, that's why I say it's important to, you know, still pay attention to what's out there because, um, I do think that that is, that is useful from, you know, a business side perspective. But, um, but yeah, you can't, you can't let the jealousy eat you from the inside. Yeah. Yeah. Good. I'm glad that she's brought that up. No, one's really talked about jealousy and the idea of comparisons yet. Um, okay, great. Um, lastly, where can people find you? I am easily found online. My website is[inaudible] dot com and I am apt to kit Frick on Twitter, Instagram and Pinterest, and at Kip Frick author Facebook. Awesome. Also kit frig is such a cool name. Oh, thanks. Um, thank you. Thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you so much for having me Marissa. My absolute pleasure. I'm glad you could come by me to readers. I hope that you will check out. I killed Zoe spinous, which is available now. And of course, if you can support your local indie bookstore, we always recommend that you do so. Please subscribe to this podcast and help me spread the word by telling your fellow readers and writers about it. You can find me on Instagram at Marissa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy and cozy out there in your bunkers and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling a little
Speaker 1:[inaudible].