Marissa chats with Danielle Paige about her bestselling DOROTHY MUST DIE series and her new graphic novel - MERA: TIDEBREAKER - as well as how to give a new twist to a beloved classic, Danielle's time spent writing for soap operas and how that shaped her writing process, and the many joys that come with graphic novel collaborations.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa chats with Danielle Paige about her bestselling DOROTHY MUST DIE series and her new graphic novel - MERA: TIDEBREAKER - as well as how to give a new twist to a beloved classic, Danielle's time spent writing for soap operas and how that shaped her writing process, and the many joys that come with graphic novel collaborations.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
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Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I'm your host, Maurice. Myra, thanks so much for joining me. One thing that's making me happy this week is a website called timber doodle. Uh, before I tell you what timber doodle is a quick bit of backstory here in Washington, uh, where I am a lot of the school districts have decided not to reopen for the fall. Um, at least with in school learning, they're kind of all going to a virtual platform. As I know, lots of places around the country are. Uh, so after a lot of discussion, my husband and I have decided not to enroll the girls in official kindergarten, but to continue with homeschooling, which I admit is some words I never thought he would say never in a million years. Did I think that I would be a homeschooling mom, but here we are. We're adapting a is so many parents out there are right now. So on that note while I was researching homeschooling and different curriculums, I stumbled onto this website, timber doodle a, which it's essentially a website that puts together, uh, like these curated homeschooling packets. And they have everything from like math and reading workbooks to different craft and art projects and science experiments and games and, uh, STEM tools and all sorts of things. And you can kind of go in and pick and choose what you want. And then when you're done, the website takes all of your choices and build a daily or weekly school schedule for you. Um, so that's what we decided to do. And we got our box of schooling materials about a week ago and opening the box felt a little bit like Christmas morning and the girls are so excited. They've already wanted to start a bunch of the science experiments and started working on their math worksheets. So, so far so good. Um, you know, wish me luck here as we embark on our first official year of homeschooling. Uh, so if you are a parent out there, who's also maybe considering this route I'm by no means an expert, but my experience with timber doodle has been really great so far. So maybe check it out. And of course I am so happy today to be talking to today's guest. She is the New York times bestselling author of the Dorothy must die series and the stealing snow series, as well as the DC universe inspired graphic novel Mira tied breaker. Please. Welcome to the show. Danielle Page. Hi Risa. Hi Danielle. How are you? I'm good. It's so nice to talk to you. I miss you. It's like not having conferences means we never see each other. I know, in fact, we just missed comic. How sad are you there? Comic con didn't happen this year. I loved comma colonic. That was the first time I met you in person. Actually, you were kind enough to do, um, my very first, like on-camera renewal, we're on audio interview for the author skill. Like the night before my first book came out and it, I think it totally helped our sales. Oh good. No, I do associate, uh, San Diego Comicon with you. Cause I feel like our paths always somehow managed to cross, uh, which is nutty because it's huge and you can never find anybody there at comic con. Um, and yet, somehow I feel like we always see each other every year. So I'm bummed that it didn't happen this year. I missed too. And then y'all be all Western happen. It's so many things, so many things I know this year. What has this year? Because it's so strange. Yeah, but we're, we're doing, we're holding in there. How's your bunker. Are you in New York? I am well, I'm in New Jersey right now. Uh, we have a house down at the beach. Um, so we came down, I'm such a brat, um, and made it like so much easier. We have an apartment in the city too though. Yeah. He got out can get out of the city. Why wouldn't you? Yeah, we left in March and we haven't only been back to check on the apartment. It's so strange. So like when we went into the city, it was so empty. Yeah, I know it is. I mean, obviously I'm not in New York and some shirts, like a totally different world there. Um, but even driving around our much smaller cities, they feel like ghost towns. It's strange, very strange. Um, but yeah, we're just trying to figure out how to, you know, how to handle everything right. Everybody is. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know. And now, and what are we like five months into this? Uh, so at least it's not, I don't know. I feel like we've gotten into a pattern. Like you're not surprised anymore that you can't go do things. And you're just like, okay. We found our new hobbies, our new things that we're spending time on. So I don't know. I think you kind of rediscover things. You're like, we're playing board games. We haven't done that. And it's like, it's all the things that you like, the kind of the simpler things. So yeah. I appreciate that. That's funny. Cause we have been doing a lot of the board games too. And like writing postcards, I've started writing postcards to people. I never did that. Oh, I love that too. I think that's so special. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Life is different, but you know, there's some things that aren't all bad about it. Yeah, no, we had to find like, and then just finding things that are, you can't find anywhere else. Like we get down to dairy at the beginning that like delivers milk to us. It's like, it's just the strangest small things, right? Yes. Milk delivered. Um, but our neighbors who are also my husband's cousin and his wife live right next door to us and delivered. And so my girls they've learned that the milk always comes on Monday and they all talk coklat milk, fresh chocolate milk every Monday. And so they like planned it on the schedule to go over to uncle Eddie's house and get some chocolate milk. That's adorable. I love that. And I think that you made the right choice with the homeschooling thing and my sister is doing the same thing and I wrote down the name of that app because she's going to love that. No, good. No, I hope, I hope that she, that it works for her. Um, I know there's, I was shocked at how many different homeschooling options and curriculums there were. Uh, I was not expecting to be inundated with so many choices. Um, my sister has been looking at stuff too, and her skirt minster school, they're doing virtual learning, but she wants something on top of that. So it's just so much to deal with if you have kids. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like, you know, when everything shut down in March, we had no idea what we were doing. I mean, all parents were just kind of thrown into it. And so now I feel like we've taken a break. We didn't do any homeschooling for the last, I dunno, two or three months, and now I'm going into it with a plan and I feel a lot more like excited and I'm ready for this. And yeah, I feel like I'm in a much better place. And I think a lot of parents are feeling that too, like now that we know what's going on and we kind of have some choices in the matter, right. Because I think in the beginning, everyone was like, Oh, we have to finish out the school year. And then everything will go back to normal soon. Hopefully. And then it did not. Yeah, I know. I do. I mean, I know there's so many parents who homeschooling, isn't an option for them, you know, are still parents still have to go to work. Um, and they're just scrambling to figure out, well, what do we do now if we can't put our kids in school for six hours a day. Um, and I have no answers answers for them. I know it's so hard. So hard. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Let's talk, sorry, parents right there. I hope you can figure it out.
Speaker 2:My heart goes out to you. Good luck. I haven't used to. I'm like, I feel like that. And I got daughter and it's like, I'm Sue and I have so many friends who are parents, so yeah. Yeah. Uh, I don't know.
Speaker 3:We'll figure it out. Society. Society has to be
Speaker 2:Figure it out. Yes. Yes. Alright. Um, you have written some phenomenal books and I don't even know. I want to talk to you about all the things let's start with. Uh, Dorothy, must die. Tell listeners who haven't read your books yet. What is Dorothy must die about? Um, so another girl named Amy gum lands in Oz and she has to fight a now evil Dorothy, that's the shortest version and all the characters that you know, and love are now a little bit wicked and all the ones that used to be a wicked are a little bit good. So it's kind of like a flip on Oz and it's really fun. And I am such a big ass fan that I was just a joy to write. I love, I mean, it's been a long time since I read Dorothy mistakes. I think I read it as an arc before it even came out in the world. And that was years ago. It was a 2014 gosh, time flies, but it's such a great twist. And you completely flip the story on its head. Talk me through your process a little bit of, cause you've also now written, um, stealing snow, which is, uh, kind of loosely based on the snow.
Speaker 4:True. Yes. True. Um, so for me, I, and honestly I want to thank you again. Um, when I read sender before I wrote Dorothy or I was like one of the things that I was reading and it, you kind of gave me permission to go as far as I went and Dorothy, because I felt like if Marissa can take Cinderella to space, I can totally make, you know, Dorothy evils was, it was helpful honestly, to break that wall. Um, in terms of process, I feel like for Dorothy, the story is really rooted in my idea of, I was always, when I was, when I watched the movie growing up, I was obsessed and I read all the books and I just always wondered why Dorothy went back to Kansas. Like she didn't have, she'd have no agency or magic or friends since when she goes back. And what if that made her a more petulant person who wanted to get back at all costs. And then when she got there, I like the idea of maybe those friends following her and on this darker journey, instead of just saying no, no, no, Dorothy. So that's kind of where the idea came from. And I've always been fascinated with what happens to people when they finally get power that didn't have power. So it's kind of an overcorrection, like, like, um, the scarecrow doesn't have a heart. Um, so I mean that doesn't have a brain. Somebody does, he's a mad scientist and the 10 men is in love with Dorothy and, and um, the lion is literally eats fear and Dorothy really like wanted to go home and now she wants to roll Oz. So that was really kind of the idea in my head. Um, and then the other correction on the other side is like the wicked, which is want balance. And that makes them a little bit less wicked cause they want peace and they have to find another way to find it. So
Speaker 2:How, I mean, you said that you loved the books, um, the Frankel bond books already, when you decided that you're going to do this retelling, you're gonna twist the story, turn everything around. Did you go back and reread the stories to kind of draw inspiration from them? Or did you already have, like, I have this idea now I'm going to run with it?
Speaker 4:No, I re-read like I had the idea, but I like before I wrote even a page, I sat down and read the first like, uh, 13 books and just like reabsorbed it. Cause they wanted to use kind of bombs like toolbox and it's like this great big world. I wanted to figure out what I wanted to use within it, the settings. And how are we going to take on each character? And I had to go back to read it. I mean, I, I feel like those characters live in your head, but you had to go back and revisit them before I could write. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Did you feel any pressure to, because obviously the stories you're writing now take place
Speaker 4:After, uh, um, what's that,
Speaker 2:What's the actual book called the factor that was robust
Speaker 4:Wicked in my head. I'm like, it's not, I know it's in my head too, after the wizard of Oz. Um, did you feel pressure to like, not do anything in your world that would contradict what had happened? Like did you really want it to read as a true CQL or were you like, Nope, I can do whatever I want. Even if this actually didn't happen in the original books or whatever, I wasn't, I wasn't totally precious. Like, but I wanted to, I tried to stay true to the first book and, and true to who the characters used to be before I twisted them. So if there, if there were a small detail that I retold, I was fine with it, but I just like, it's not like you can lose the shoes or she didn't go, you know, like there are things you have to keep, but I think I did mash together. Some of them, the movie stuff with the book stuff, because it's all in my head.[inaudible] where you, did you feel like you were writing for fans? Cause obviously this is a well beloved classic. The series has been around for ages. It has some like true, true heartfelt fans out there in the world. Did you feel like you were writing for those people, people who already love this story or where you, cause I'm thinking like when I wrote heartless, which is of course, um, kind of a SQL to, or a prequel to Alice in Wonderland, um, I was most intimidated by the true Alice in Wonderland fans. Like those are the people that I felt like, you know, I either have to impress or, um, you know, the ones that are most likely to pick it apart to feel like I've done an injustice to this story. Uh, how, how did you feel about that? I was just, I think I, I was so not in the book world and I hadn't researched anything and I wasn't paying attention and I'd been a soap opera writer. So I was used to kind of writing characters of belong to someone else. Um, and just trying to make them the most believable as possible. So I, I kind of went in blindly, honestly. I don't think I really, really felt what I did until the night before the book came out and it was just, and I remember my editor along the way saying something like, well, you know, how comfortable do you feel with making this really beloved caricature, like kind of a bad ass. And uh, and I just at the time was like, no, it's fine. It's fine. I was, I just did. I just was focused on the book and I focused on the story I wanted to tell, which is, I think that the thing that you get to do with the first book, because you don't know if anyone's going to actually read it or how many people are going to respond to it. And luckily when it came out, it, it did very well. And I was, I was still like, I hadn't really thought about the audience until honestly the day before. Like I really, and when it came out and the first day I went to a book signing in Texas, there was like a little girl dressed up like Dorothy, Oh wait, there is a whole group of people that are, I could have really screwed this up and it, but I did it kind of blindly. And I, um, thank God. And I think I'm much more aware of it now, as I'm more conscious of the audience and like, and writing even the last book of the Beyonce of my series, I was very aware of wanting to, um, give Amy who's my main character, the ending she deserved, but also fan service. I couldn't help it because I I'm such a fan of that world. So yeah. Have you heard from any like really diehard a wizard of Oz fans and like, do you know how, how has, has this been received by that audience? Um, well actually I've gotten invited to do an Oz convention last year, but I can't, but it got canceled.
Speaker 5:Gotcha.
Speaker 4:Um, so I eventually I'll get to go to one and I've, uh, sorry, it just dropped my mic. Um, and I, but I, I, so I, I, and then I've done a couple of Oz online things with like the Oz convention group and, and I've been approached by like Oz fan club members and every everyone's been really positive. So I feel like they are, they respect the fact that I did reference a lot of characters from like the later books and I have a lot of detail from the us world. And I don't think that I tried on anything that was really, um, no, one's no one's come after me basically. Yeah. Yeah. No. And I think, I mean, I would imagine that they could probably tell that you are a fan and those little, the little nuggets, the little details that you put in that only a true Frank L bomb fan is going to know. Uh, they probably really appreciate those little things. I hope so. And I like, and that's when I experience it's been super positive and like the audience, and I think that Oz has such a huge audience, like the super fans. And then just, it's just part of our Zika is just like, there's at one point there was like a study had done that. It was like the most referenced movie of all time, like in TV and film and commercials and every, and probably it isn't anymore, but like as of like 10 years ago, it still was because it's so much, it's like, it's the American fairytale. Yeah. Interesting. I'd never thought of that, but yeah. Frank, Frank bomb thought it was his, that was his conception. He wanted it to be an American Barrett and it really is. Yeah, no, it hits a lot of the marks for sure. So it has, it's four books, right. For novels, plus you've written like a gazillion short stories of that. How much of the story did you have in your head when you started it? Um, I just, just the beginning and the end, I really did like, the middle was much murkier for me. Um, and which is weird and I'm, again, I was started out in soaps and usually the middle would be my, my, my sweet spot. But honestly, when I started thinking about the story of the, the ending was there and then the beginning was there, but the middle was kind of, uh, and I'm, uh, I'm totally a plotter. So I had to like outline like crazy. Okay. So you, you did eventually outline middle scenes. Yes, yes, yes. Yes. Well, I love that you, you mentioned that you started out in soap operas cause you were the only writer I know who has written for soap operas. And I think that is so cool and so fascinating. Um, and you are on guiding light, is that correct? Yes. Yes. And days of our lives too. Uh, I remember guiding light because that was my mom's soap opera when I was growing up. That's fine. The guiding light. I love that. Yeah, yeah, though. It was, I think she was really, really sad when it went. Uh, yeah, so it was my mom and I was really sad as a writer, so both things. Yeah. So, um, yeah, it was such a great experience. I had the best time. It was such a great way to learn how to write quickly and to not be precious about your work and to write for a lot of different voices and we'd have a new head writer every year. So also like writing for different, but like having, basically having a new editor every year told you what to do. So it was, it was I think really great training as a reader. And I also think the medium isn't as respected as it should be because there's so many, I think it's kind of the building block of a lot of serialized storytelling, which exists today. That is much more revered. I can see it would be such a challenge to, I mean, one things are happening so quickly. I don't know what exactly your timelines were like, but you have to produce five episodes every week. You have to like every script writer wrote a script a week, but they also had, there was an outline writer who wrote the outline for them. So for me, I was a dialogue writer, so I just had to write the dialogue. So it was like the best job in the world. Like you're voicing all their characters, you get like a new plot every week. And it's like, it's got an, a, B and C story. Um, maybe you have like an earthquake and then you have a couple it's breaking up and then you have, um, like a couple of traps somewhere. Like it's like, you have all these different types of stories every week. So someone else writes the outline and then you write the script you get. So it's like a, I'd get a 10 to 15 page outline. And then I turn that into an 80 page script every week. And is there like someone above the outline writer who's kind of dictating where the, I mean, someone has to have a master plan, so there's a head writer, there's a head writer Everett. So there would be like sometimes there's two head writers and the head writer would, would plot out the entire season or the entire year. And they would, and then the head writer would meet with a breakdown writers who wrote the outline. So that way all of the outlines are have continuity. And then there would be another writer. Who's an editor over who will take your sh all the scripts wants are written and make sure it's smooth them out to make sure they all blend together. Oh my gosh. So many cooks in the kitchen. Yeah. It was a totally, it, it was, you know, and it had to all happen very quickly. And also, I mean, I was always in awe of the process and also the actors who had to learn a new script every day. It's a lot of work. Yeah. So obviously you have now kind of moved into this novel writing space. Um, so you have this talent, you can create stories and plots in your own head. Were there times when you would get this script from the outline writer? And did you ever think, like I have a better idea
Speaker 2:[inaudible]
Speaker 4:I know what we can do better here. No, I always have a better idea, but you, you have to, like, you have to respect that it's a job and you have to, you just try to make the best of what's on the page, because otherwise you have to become an outline writer to have more power in terms of the story. If you had something you felt really strongly about, you could appeal to the head writer, but all the other things are laid out. So if you take out one piece and you could ruin the whole week, so you can't do that. So it was really the challenge every week was to make what was on the page work. And that was your, and as a writing exercise, like it's it, it's great training. I find like, I, I very rarely have writer's block because I'm used to having that kind of problem solving thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So tell me more about that. Like, how did you
Speaker 4:Working in soap, opera soap operas on this very tight schedule? This is your job. You got to get it done every day, every week, et cetera. How has that now gone on to influence how you treat writing in your career? I think that, like, it gives you that discipline. I mean, I, I, I can say that there, like, I am pretty good with deadlines, um, unless there's something cute happening. Like I, I can normally hit, hit my deadlines and it makes it very, I think it just makes it easier cause I'm used to it and it makes you not as precious about the work because you know, sometimes it's better to turn it in than to have it be perfect. And you always get a second draft. And so if you don't get a second draft, but in, in books, you like, if you have something down, you have that you have something to revise. So for me, I think it gave me that structure and that kind of, that muscle memory of like, I know I can finish those. I can know again. And I also kind of gives you that sense that you can write absolutely anything. Like if I, if I think of some crazy idea, I'm like, it cannot be crazier than this stuff I started out. Right. So, um, I just remember when I was super young and I first started getting scripts, there would be things I didn't want to write. And like we had a clone story and we admit ghost and I was like, I don't want to write that. I want to write like, you know, fun, like, like sexist city things. Like I was just in a different place in my life. And now I would like, I want to write a clone story, but it gave me the one last clone story. Right. No, but like, in terms of like the actual, like I do now, but I remember being like 25 and like, like, just like, that seems so far away from what I was doing, like what I was used to writing. And now I it's like, I have a clone story I want to write. So it kind of like broke that seal in terms of wanting to write anything, you know?
Speaker 2:So was it difficult to go from being the dialogue writer to now you're writing your own books and it's all on you and you were making all the decisions. You have to be the one who, with the plan, you have to be the one that figures out the plot and fixes all the plot holes and the problems, et cetera, et cetera. Like, was that a hard transition to make or were you like so ready to break?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think it was actually more like, it was, it was a sense of gave me a sense of freedom and then it was, and I felt like I had the structure kind of ingrained in me from writing that many scripts. Um, so, and I know scripts aren't books, but in, in terms of structure, they kind of are like, in terms of, so for me, it, like, I felt like I had the bones down. So like you have that like muscle memory of doing it. And then I got to write my own stories finally. And I don't think that when I was younger, I really, I fell into this job that I loved and paid it really well. Um, and I just didn't dream bigger than that. I didn't think about doing something else. I was doing this like cool thing. That was a fun job and I made money doing it. And I wasn't like reaching for the, my own book or my own show or my own anything. I was like, this is good. I'm good. You know, and I was in my twenties and I was, was like ideal. Um, and then when the soaps started getting canceled and I had to figure out what I wanted to do, that was probably the first time that, um, I had to start thinking about like, what, what did, what was my actual story? Like, what did I want to tell? And that was hard for me and just sense of like, figuring out what that is, but it wasn't hard in terms of like the actual process. Um, so I wrote a pilot for MTV that was about, um, uh, college kids that I sold and it was called the Ivy cause I went to Columbia and that was really fun to write. Um, and I, and that just came from meeting. I'm went for an interview of, to write scripts for something and MTV. And the guy was like, well, I think that you could write, I think I want to do a soap opera. And since you've written soaps, let's do this together. And I ended up writing a pilot, which was great. And that gave me this other experience I'd never had before. And I wrote a show Bible and the show didn't get made, but it was my first kind of young adult project because it was, um, like, you know, 19, 20 year olds. And from there I thought about doing Y um, because I grew up young people well, and I thought that would be my next transition. And while still trying to do TV stuff, I still went on and did some more soap stuff on days. Um, and I still want to write scripts and I, hopefully I will get to write scripts for some of my books when they get turned into other things. So I'm not over dialogue writing.
Speaker 2:So as you're going through that and trying to figure out, okay, where do I go from here? What do I want my story to be in my career to
Speaker 4:Look like? Uh, was Dorothy the first novel that you tried writing or were there lots of different novels? It's still my first novel. That's so exciting. It's so unusual, but you were ready by that point. Yeah. I really, honestly, when I wrote it, I was hoping that it would hit the mid list. So I could just write more books. That was my dream. So yeah, yeah, yeah. I honestly just wanted to be a working writer and it, I didn't want to leave New York yet. And it made more sense than like moving to LA and then trying to write screenplays. So I thought I could do for, for awhile or, and then try to start writing scripts again. And then I, Dorothy was way more successful than I thought it was gonna be. And I just ended up writing more books. Yeah. Just never know we're life. Yeah. You really don't. And I did not think, I mean, I found it so rewarding, like, like meeting kids and, and this whole world. And it's been such a great community too. Yeah, no, for sure. The way community is fantastic. I agree. And now you've kind of transitioned once again, into your first graphic novel. Yes. Mira tiebreaker that came out was that last year of 2019? Yes, it was last April, I think. Okay. Uh, so, so tell me, how did that whole thing come about? Um, I was a full con and Michelle Wells who runs the young readers program at DC comics. Um, she just, I think just gotten hired and was looking for writers. And she was in my direct messages. Like there was a message saying like, do you wanna meet to talk about DC comics? And I thought that was like a joke at first, but I don't know. I just didn't imagine myself writing for DC. I just thought of it as such a male space because I grew up reading Archie comics. I hadn't really like, like, I love all the movies and the TV shows, but I just never thought there was a space for me in that. I don't know why it just never occurred to me. So when I got the call, it didn't even make sense to me. So I met with her and it was like, we met for drinks and turn it into, turn into dinner. And like, she called me after and wanted me to submit like some pitches. And I did, and I, and I just remember walking home afterwards and I called my sister and I was like, Oh, well, this was really fun. I met the DC comics lady. I think we'll be friends, but like, I'm sure I'm not going to get it. Cause I, I, um, I trashed and maybe that DC movie that had come out. Okay. Yes. But not in it. Like, it was more like, I really, I loved like what it should have been, but it could have been better and these are all and I dissected it and it was, Oh, no, maybe it wasn't supposed to do that. But it's like, I was myself. So whatever I love it. Yeah. So I was like, okay, I think I made a friend. And, um, and I ended up being the first book on the line. So it worked out really well and it was so much fun to write. And it was like getting back to script writing. Um, I originally pitched, uh, um, I knew about the Aquaman movie. So I pitched Aquaman as the mermaid because that's just where my brain goes. And I think I wrote the pitch was Aqua man, a whole new world, which I know is not big, but I just did it. It was Aqua man falling in love with Mira. And like, he grows up under water and he falls a little bit, this girl on land and he follows her there and he has to choose between the land and the sea. And I turned it in and I think I'm brilliant. And, um, the editor calls me and she's like, well, this is great. But Aqua man always grows up on land. He doesn't know who he is. If you could just flip it, we want to buy it. So it worked out, but I had to flip it and that's how I learned about Mira. And, um, and I twisted a little bit more. So she grows up in a colony that's um, basically, um, her, her land is, uh, or underwater land is in conflict with his, uh, birthright, which is, uh, the colony of Atlanta's, but he doesn't know about it yet. So she goes to kill him and instead falls in love with him because he looks like Jason Momoa because he's awkward, man, and he's lovely and a good person and all that.
Speaker 3:Mmm.
Speaker 4:So interesting that originally it was going to be that Aqua man himself was going to be more at the heart of the story. Actually it's stronger having strong. I love getting to hear or to read and see it from nearest perspective. She's such a good character. I had so much fun writing. All right. I didn't know as much about her. And I took it to the deep dive and, and um, I've just, I, I really do love comic books and graphic novels. And I feel like there, it's just such a great medium because you get, for me, it kind of brings me back to my soap days and script days. Um, and then getting to work with an artist and they bring so much, it's like having a partner and um, and you get this beautiful thing for like, you do have to work and then this gorgeous thing exists. Yeah. Yeah, no, that was one of the great highlights for me doing graphic novels was working with the illustrator and feeling like, you know, I did my work, but by the time it was done, like I'd written the script so long ago that I'd almost forgotten about all of the work I did. And so it just like, felt like receiving this presence that someone else has. And it's like, they made it better. It's like the thing that you already loved, like they made it into something like eat like better than that. And I had, and I think I kind of, I remember that from TV because like, you'd have an actor like say your words and it was just this other, they take it to another level that you didn't expect or they take it to places that you don't expect. And that is, I think there's something so wonderful about collaborations and, um, and productions. And so I think that comic books kind of satisfy that for me and TB does that for me. Um, and I, and books do something else cause they feel much more internal. Now that's an interesting comparison. Uh, I've never, I've never thought of it, but I agree this the kind of the collaborative element of, uh, it does kind of have a similar vibe to TV or movies and actors and all that. Did you feel so going from, you know, screenwriting with this script or with the soap opera is to then writing novels and novellas to then doing a graphic novel, did you feel it writing the graphic novel? Was it more similar to writing for TV or was it more similar to writing novels? More, some alerts reading TV, except I get to plot out every second event, like, which I wasn't doing when I was doing TV. Um, except for when I did my pilot, which was more like this, but basically, yeah, it's you have total control with graphic novels, except then you can hand it over to the artist, but you don't have to do all, all the emotional work, you know? So I feel like it's show, don't tell and you're so good at dialogue. I mean, clearly this is a near perfect little knit. It's really fun. I mean, I do think that like I got through the mirror script and um, couple of weeks and it takes me like six months for a book. So I feel like there's a very, it's, it's an emotionally like books are so satisfying because you put so much of yourself into them, but there's something to be said about the immediacy of writing a script. And it's just kind of like voices in your head that are talking to you and it just kind of flows out of you. There's something so much, and there's so much structure and, and it there's something that works for me in a different way. And I'm curious too, cause I know I've talked to other writers who have done, um, these, these collaborative projects with, uh, whether it's with DC or with Marvel. You know, they've both been doing wire novelizations, um, the past few years and some of the writers that I've talked to who've worked on these projects have said, you know, it was cool. It was a great experience. I got to write, you know, these characters from these stories that I love, but there are so many people involved. Like there was a lot more hoops to jump through as opposed to like, if you're just writing a novel, you pretty much just have to run it by your editor. Um, but whereas if you are writing for DC or Marvel, there might be like a whole committee of people who are telling you what you can and can't do with these characters. Was that kind of your experience? Like, did you feel like there was just a lot more people that had input as you were working? I mean, except for the note about not making him a little mermaid, I totally was. I really didn't get a lot of, um, blow back, but these books, um, this specific line at DC is, is actually, um, out of continuity. So we had a lot of freedom and the editor has been once kind of wants origin stories or stories that exist. Like the Creek kind of reimagining the characters a little bit. So I felt a lot of freedom actually in DC has been great about it. Um, and I have a couple of their projects with them that I'm excited about, but I can't talk about yet. Um, that was my next question. Yeah. And there's one adult one that I get to, hopefully we're still in contracts, but if that works out, I'm like super, super excited. And um, yeah, so, but I, I think for me having started in television where you have a lot of cooks in the kitchen, like that part of it doesn't really bother me. I think it probably would be harder. It, um, if I were doing something like for Batman or something, cause they have like, there's so much continuity and there's so much history. Um, but in this case and this line, it was really, it was actually a kind of a dream experience, a good way to learn how to do this. And I had a great editors, um, and it was, it was a good experience.
Speaker 2:Good, good. Well, and it turned out great. And I just gotta say the artwork,
Speaker 4:Stephen burn is just amazing. He's like, he's, he's such a gorgeous artist. He really is. Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I just love, I don't know if that was his decision or someone on the editorial, but how they it's mostly kind of these shades of blue and then is just striking red hair. I love it.
Speaker 4:I think it was, yeah, I think it was actually Steven's idea. The color scheme. I'm not positive. We had a great colorist too, but I think it was his idea to do the color scheme. We looked at another scheme where it was more Disney ask and it just, it kind of killed it. So we were so happy with this. I think it really turned out beautiful. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay. And then kind of one of my last official questions, cause I know you have another book coming out next year. Um, I have not had the pleasure of reading yet, but I'm super excited to get my hands on a copy. Uh, tell listeners about, is it the Ravens? Yeah.
Speaker 4:We have two books next year. That the second one I said, yeah, but I'm not sure if the date of the second one yet, but the first one is the Ravens with cast Morgan, which is another collaboration, which is a, it's basically a group of sorority, which is, um, and there are two girls, um, Scarlet and Vivi Vivi, and they, um, one is a sophomore and she's a little bit saucy. Um, and she really, really, the only thing she wants in this world is to be like queen bee of the sorority. And the other girl is the new rushy, um, Vivi. And she joins a sorority and then learns that all of those sort of girls are witches and she also is a witch. So it's, it's kind of like a nod to charmed and all those like, um, great, like which shows that we grew up with. And it's, it's just fun and contemporary, which I haven't done. And it's in the real world with the little paranormal elements. So it's a little mystery. Uh, and we just had really good time writing it honestly
Speaker 2:Is it will be a standalone or the first in a series. It's,
Speaker 4:It's a duology so two and then the S yeah. And then the second book for the year is going to be fairy godmother, but it's not, we haven't picked the date yet, uh, with all the stuff that's going on in the world, hopefully it will still make, um, um, make it like maybe in or something. Is it based on Cinderella? Yes. So it's a fairy godmother origin story though. Oh, yay. Yeah. I feel like I've been working on it for two years. It's ridiculous. Awesome. So are either of them available for preorder? Yeah. You can preorder the Ravens now. Alright, cool. Well, I'm so excited. Can't wait to read it. And I want to hear about your next one though. I didn't know you were doing an adult. Oh no. I'm instant karma. It's young adults. Okay. Yeah, but I'm also contemporary also my first contemporary. Uh, so you and I are both moving into the contemporary with[inaudible]. We totally want to read it. Thank you. I'm so excited. I'm so, so, so excited for it to come out. I feel like, I dunno, I, you know how it is, you finish a book and then have to wait like a year for, Oh my God. I think, you know, we got pushed to like, we were supposed to come out in November and we like moved to January and it's Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I'm, I'm, I'm dying for this one to get to readers. I really love this book so well, I'm excited. I've been a fan of yours before I was your friend, so, okay. We're going to wrap this up with our happy writer lightning round. Okay. All right. First up, what book makes you happy? Great expectations. What do you do to celebrate an accomplishment shopping you're like all over the lightening round.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 4:How do you feel the creative? Well, a coffee walking, um, television. I like to, uh, like w and, um, but usually it used to be walks in the city and a lot of coffee shops that I'm not getting that anymore. I know a lot of my, my favorite ways to fill the well aren't available anymore. So weird. I can still take a walk, but it's not the same. Yeah. All right. What advice would you give to help someone become a happier writer? Oh, God. I think, um, it's kind of this, it's trying to finish something. It'll make you feel better. Like once you finish one thing, like whether it's a chapter or through your first draft, or like, I think it's knowing that you've done it, lets you know that you can do it again. Um, and um, cut your son right now though. Cut yourself some Slack if you don't finish because it's crazy times. Yeah. Very good advice on both friends. Lastly, where can people find you? I am a Daniel M. Page on Twitter and Instagram and then on Facebook, I think I'm just Daniel Page. Um, and I think that's it. And I have Danielle Danielle Page books.com.
Speaker 3:Great. Thank you so much
Speaker 4:For joining me, Danielle. It was really great to talk to you. Oh, you too
Speaker 2:Readers. Be sure to check out Daniel's many awesome books and pre-order the Ravens, which is coming out next year. Of course, we always encourage you to support your local indie bookstore. But if you don't have a local indie, you can also check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marissa Meyer and help support indie bookstores all across America. Please subscribe to this podcast and leave us a review. If you're enjoying these conversations, you can find us on Instagram at Marissa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy and cozy in your bunkers and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling a little bit
Speaker 1:[inaudible].