Marissa chats with Joanne Levy, author and social media manager for The Happy Writer Podcast, about her newest middle grade contemporary - FISH OUT OF WATER - as well as writing that once-in-a-lifetime book that magically writes itself, why society's imposed gender roles deserve to be challenged, how not every publication journey is linear and how perseverance is the key to maintaining a writing career, and some tips for delegating your work to an assistant.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa chats with Joanne Levy, author and social media manager for The Happy Writer Podcast, about her newest middle grade contemporary - FISH OUT OF WATER - as well as writing that once-in-a-lifetime book that magically writes itself, why society's imposed gender roles deserve to be challenged, how not every publication journey is linear and how perseverance is the key to maintaining a writing career, and some tips for delegating your work to an assistant.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
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Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I'm your host, Marissa Meyer. Thanks so much for joining me. Uh, we have had a few health scares in my family the past couple of weeks. Uh, and of course it's never fun to get that early morning phone call, uh, letting you know that a loved one is in the hospital and is having difficulties. Um, how, however, it has been a good reminder for me to take a moment to appreciate my own health and the health of my family, and, uh, you know, a reminder not to take those things for granted and to try to appreciate the time that I do have with my loved ones. So on that note, without going into much detail, I'm happy to report that as of today, everyone is doing okay. And on a path to recovery was not COVID related, was something different. Um, but nevertheless was kind of scary at the time. Um, but everything is, is getting better. We're all doing well. And that is the thing that's making me happy this week. And I hope that everyone listening to this might take a few minutes today to just appreciate your loved ones and the time that you get to spend with them. Uh, I know that's kind of a heavy start to this episode. Um, but these moments do make a person pause and think about what's really important. And so that's what I've been thinking about lately. And of course I am so happy to be talking to today's guest. She's the author of the middle grade novels, double trouble crushing it. And the red maple nominated small medium at large her newest book fish out of water comes out this month on September 22nd. She also happens to be my author assistant and the social media manager for the happy writer podcast. Please welcome Joanne levy. Hello, Joanne. How are you? I'm great sitting here wearing all my hats that you mentioned so much to do so many hats. And can I, can I just interrupt for one second and say that, that what's making me really happy today is your reminder. I'm about appreciating those around us and I'm, I'm very happy to hear that those in your family are doing well and better. And I got the chance to see my dad last week, which I haven't seen him very much over this COVID stuff. So I'm very thankful for that too. And being with family and we celebrated his 80th. So I'm very happy about that. Oh, good. And thank you for the, all the well wishes and I'm, I'm happy too, that you're you got to see your dad and COVID has been hard, especially with the, some of the elderly people in our family. Um, yeah, it's been tough this year.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think it's, it's even scarier for them. I mean, grandparents away from their grandchildren is a terrible, terrible thing, but I think they're alone and a little isolated it's that much worse. So I'm thankful for technology that we can call and zoom, but, um, it was really nice seeing him and the rest of my family. So I'm, I'm thankful for all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good, good. I'm happy. I'm happy to hear that. Um, so the last time that you and I talked actually talked, obviously we email all the time. Um, but the last time we had a real conversation was right at the beginning. I just had this nutty idea of starting a podcast. I was like, Joanne, I need your help. I can't do this alone. Um, and now this is our fourth episode.
Speaker 3:Is it quite six months in? And it's yeah,
Speaker 2:Yeah, it would be right there. It started in March. So I can't believe it. I can't believe how fast this year has gone.
Speaker 3:It's been amazing. I mean, when you call it a nutty idea, I call it a brilliant and generous idea for it because I don't know if listeners realize, but you are so focused on debuts and all these authors who had books releasing that weren't going to be able to get out there and get the word out about their books. So on behalf of all authors, thank you for your nutty generous idea. And I know this sounds like me just gushing at you, but it's, it's a really big deal. And you using that, your influence to help others mean so much.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you. It's I can't imagine. I mean, the debut having your debut book, it's such a huge thing and something that we work toward and we dream of a lot of us dream of that moment, our whole lives, and to be trying to release your debut book in the midst of all this. I mean, I just, it's so tough.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And so disappointing. And you're trying to, you know, put on the brave face for social media, but it's, it's hard and it's hard getting the word out when you don't have a platform. And, and so, yeah, it's, it's great that I think kid lit writers are the best writers and are so supportive and sort of circle around each other and lift each other up. And I think that's, that's one of the best things about publishing kids. Books is the community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I agree. Uh, everyone just like you say is so supportive and really just embraces each other and I'm so happy to be a part of it. So why don't we start off? Cause obviously in addition to being a fabulous assistant and social media manager, you are a writer yourself and your new book is coming out. Why don't you tell listeners, what is fish out of water about? Sure. I'll
Speaker 3:Give you the little elevator pitch. So fish out of water is about a boy named fish or official. And he, he wants to learn how to knit.
Speaker 2:Mmm.
Speaker 3:You do a bar mitzvah project. So a bar mitzvah project, um, it's sort of a side project to you reading the Torah and it's where you are supposed to give of yourself and do a charity project. Um, and so he wants to learn how to knit as part of that. And he gets pushback from all the people around him that are supposed to support and love him most. Um, so this is about him sort of following his heart and what happens
Speaker 2:Along the way. So in your acknowledgements, you mentioned that fish out of water is for you. One of those once in a lifetime books that just seem to almost write itself. What was it about this book that you think made it so special for you? It's, you know what? It was just a weird,
Speaker 3:The stars aligned it's sold quickly. It wrote itself quick. I don't know when I write, I don't know what it's like for you, but I'm almost in sort of a trance and I forget having written once I'm done.
Speaker 2:Mm. Yeah.
Speaker 3:It just really came together and I'm a pantser I had no outline, I sold it on a couple paragraphs and it just, it came together. The character was sort of inspired by the son of a friend of mine, but it, I don't, I can't even say what made it work so well because I don't remember writing it
Speaker 2:Because it just, it literally
Speaker 3:You seem to write itself. So how's that for a terrible answer.
Speaker 2:Never,
Speaker 3:It never happens like this and it sold very quickly and it just came together and that has never happened ever
Speaker 2:To me before. Do you think it will ever happen again? Do you have high hopes? Nope. This was the one,
Speaker 3:This was my one easy time. I just, I don't see it happening ever again,
Speaker 2:But you know what it,
Speaker 3:It worked and it happened and I'm grateful for,
Speaker 2:So I love how this book addresses these, you know, kind of cultural gender roles and stereotypes. Um, does it in a super lighthearted approachable way. I adore fish. Um, and you know, I think it's a great book for kind of starting some of those conversations. What, what do we consider typically masculine versus what is typically feminine and what does that mean and why is it important to question those things? Um, because,
Speaker 3:Because it's not always just, this is the way it is sometimes I think that these things should be challenged. Um, so for you, like why do you think it's important for some of these cultural gender roles to be questioned and challenged, especially as it pertains to young people? Absolutely. I mean, you know, this day and age, we, we see these terrible, terrible stories. Okay. The news about these men that, that just do terrible things a few years ago in Toronto, there was a man that got in a van and mowed down, um, a bunch of people killing a bunch of people, men and women. But his, his reason for doing that is, was he was angry at women. And it was, it's just like this deep seated message. And, and that was where I first learned the term in cell, which I'd never heard of before. And I thought, what is making us do so wrong by our boys that they're turning into to these men? And I, yeah, took it back to the seeds of what creates this sort of person, because they're not born. And this way they're created this way, um, through a lot of subtle things that they learn as they go along and, you know, I get it back to this boys. Don't cry and boys don't do this. Boys don't do that. And it, and it creates it's this false of what a boy should be. And, you know, and it goes, it was hand in hand with what girls should be and objects and, you know, the way we treat girls as needing to look good for men and it all goes hand in hand. Yeah. The thing is, if we don't start teaching our kids, when they're really young, these things get baked in and they're so, so subtle. And one of the things I discovered when I was writing this book is that my own biases. So baked in and from my family of origin, not that they weren't well-meaning, but it was just really interesting to see, you know, my, my parents always said, Joanne, you can do whatever you want. You can be whoever you want. And that was never an issue. Well, I was told I could be a surgeon if I wanted to, or an astronaut. It was always the same as my, my brothers. But at the same time, my brothers were encouraged to do sports and I was encouraged to bake. You know what I mean? So it was those very, very subtle things that, that get baked in it. And then they grow and they grow and yeah, they get bigger as you go out into the world node into school and, and people sort of inflict they're even well meaning, but so their biases on you and you put yourself into a box that maybe you wouldn't normally be in given your own devices or, or just influencing you, negatively telling you, you can't do certain things. So it, it was my intent to write this book for young kids when they start, when they start getting those kernels of ideas of maybe what I want isn't right. Know, and this wasn't about gender identity. This is about what's in your heart and what you want to do, but as a boy or a girl or other, it's just what's in your head.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And knowing that it's okay, it's okay to be drawn to certain things and to have interest in passions, even if they don't align with what is quote unquote, a boy thing or a girl thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And what is a boy group? They are a girl thing. I mean, it's just, it's a construct that we've put on people that, that doesn't have anything to do with anything valid. Really.
Speaker 2:Exactly. No. And I, I mean, as a mom with two young girls, I have found myself thinking about this a lot the last five years. And I remember when they were babies and we would go shopping for clothes. And it was my biggest pet peeve walking through a kid's clothing store where the boys section has robots and tractors and sharks and baseballs and guitars. And the girls have rainbows. And I like rainbows and flowers. I have nothing against that, but it's like, but we can't put some of this cool sciency stuff on the girl's clothes, but I am happy to report that we were in target a couple of days ago. And there was a whole section of girl clothes with science based designs on them. Yay. Finally,
Speaker 3:I think we're moving in that direction. And STEM for girls is becoming the new big thing, which I think is great. Um, and I hope that there's sort of crossing both gender stereotype barriers and, and giving more, um, pink things to boys and not judging, you know, I think that's a harder sell. I really do, but, um, we'll, uh, we'll see what we can do.
Speaker 2:Right, right. Yeah. And of course it goes into the toys too, and how girls get toy kitchens and dolls and boys get guns. And, uh, but I, I do think that parents are becoming more aware and I think it's going to slowly trickle out to toy manufacturers. And, you know, as, as a society we develop, right. We learn. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And so much is awareness too. I mean, and you know, it, it's sort of, it's weird because you don't, I mean, our parents did what they could and they didn't know, and it's just, it's so deeply ingrained that we don't even recognize it. And, and like I said, even myself writing this book, I had to stop a few times and I was like, I'm learning about myself and I'm, I need to do better. Um, you know, and even recognizing just the subtle language of different insults and, you know, things that creep into our language that we just don't recognize until we stop and are like, wait a minute. That's hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. No. So true. It's funny. We were with some family friends, or they came to visit us here about a month ago and they have a young boy and a girl, a son and a daughter, and they were talking about how their son is a very strong willed and, you know, tends to kind of take over at recess and these sorts of things. And my husband threw out the comment that one of our girls tends to be very bossy. And I was like, well, now hold on, boy is strong-willed. But the girl is bossy. And my husband, I mean, he, you could see like that realization in his face, like, Oh yeah, I can't believe that just came out of my mouth. Like that's, that's not right. Um, so it is like you say, it is an awareness thing.
Speaker 3:Well, even sometimes now that I'm, I feel like I'm a little more aware of watch old episodes of big bang theory and, you know, the way the guys kibitz with each other. And, you know, I can't remember a specific example, but Oh, you know, hit it with your purse Leonard or something like that. And it's just these, again, these little things that you don't notice, it's like, Hmm, that's really sexist. Even though it seems like you're going over the top, when you, when you boil it right down, it is insulting to women when you do that. And when you call a boy and Nancy or, you know, these things add up, they do they really add up.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, good. Well, I loved, I love fish out of water. I love his story and how, even though there's so many people in his life who are kind of pushing back against his passions and what he really wants to do, I love that he still manages to take the initiative and go for it. I find it very inspiring.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker 2:You told me in an email that you have had a, and I quote the most nonlinear, ridiculous least successful track record of almost any published author.
Speaker 3:Any that I've heard of. I'm sure there's worse out there, but I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So tell me about that. Cause I actually, I do know your, your story,
Speaker 3:Your publication journey. It's, it's funny because we, speaking of, um, supportive writing communities, we were both members of the apocalypses. So our debuts came out the same year in 2012. Oh, right. I forgot about that. Yeah. Yeah. We go back a long way. So I, I mean, I'll try it, give you the abridged version because you don't have 12 hours. Nobody wants to listen to that. Um, I wrote a bunch of, uh, romcom chicklet books just at the death of chicklet. So I couldn't sell any of those. Um, and then I wrote small, medium and large after a bunch of books, I think it was actually my 10th or 11th book. Um, and I wrote it as a young adult and we should, I shopped it within with an agent and shopped it, shopped it, and nobody wanted to buy it. But one editor said, um, you know what? I think this would work as a middle grade. Would you consider rewriting it as a middle grade and sheet love my voice. We talked on the phone, she was lovely, this AMAT. And I'm like, Oh, I don't think so. But thanks. Um, cause I didn't at the time, I didn't know anything about middle grade and I thought, well, if you love it, then maybe somebody else will love it as a way. Well, it didn't sell fast forward a year later, she came back and said, you know what? We really like this book, if you haven't sold it, would you reconsider writing it as a middle grade again? And, and at that point I'm like, well, nobody bought it. And uh, you seem to know something about the industry being a big name editor. And so I did, so I rewrote the book as a middle grid and she didn't buy it. So it was just, it was one of those heartbreaking things, because think it's a sure thing. And I get anyway, so that didn't sell. So at the time I was selling, I was trying to sell something Ellis with a different agent that didn't sell. Um, so I gave her a small, medium and large, and I said, if you want to sell it, go ahead. I'm not sure editing it. I was so damaged by the experience. I'm like, just do whatever you want. So a year later she sold it. Um, and I just, I couldn't believe it, but it was just a wonderful experience that we did sell it at all. Um, but it was sort of, it was so nonlinear and it was a different agent that had even shopped it and, you know, anyway, it came to be, so my next book I took, we shopped it and shopped it didn't sell, but that editor, one of the editors that read it and liked it. So that book was called Queens. He makes a buzz, she loves it. Did couldn't buy it. Didn't want to buy. It said, would you consider writing something else for us? So then I sold a write for hire book them. So that was crushing it. So then I'm trying to remember the timeline, but I think there was, Oh, so then the other books that I did write for hire, I had pitched a different editor. Didn't buy that book, but said, would you like to write for us? So then I sold a couple of those books. So then I pitched another editor with a book called Birdbrain and she didn't want to buy it, but she said, would you ever consider writing for us? We like your voice. So I wrote double trouble. And that was for Orca. Then I sold fish out of water in three days and wrote it in a couple of weeks. So that was my good experience. And then after sort of a long journey that I won't get into why it happened. The first book that I pitched Simon and Schuster queen bee makes a buzz to Orca eight years after I first started writing it and comes out next spring. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So it'll be, it'll be nine years from when I started writing that book too, when it comes out and it gone, it went on submission twice. Didn't sell, didn't sell, didn't sell almost didn't sell and sold. So it's only one time have I submitted a book and sold that book. I see what you mean by nonlinear. Absolutely nonlinear. It's just been, it's absolutely been crazy. I see that I've sold things that I didn't mean to sell. Didn't sell the books of my heart, that I was sure would sell. I mean, and in between all that, um, there was probably six or eight books that went out on submission that didn't sell. So in preparation for talking to you, I actually tallied up all my books. Mixed question. How many do you think you've written? So, and I counted small, medium and large twice because I had to write it the second time as a middle grade tree of life, which is the furthest book out that I have. So my, my final book so far, uh, will be my 29th. Oh my gosh. Joanne. That's incredible. I have a lot of them under, under my bed. Some that will never see the light of day. Some that came back, queen bee, which is now called the sun will come out, um, came back a few times and it's just, it's a cute, cute, cute little book and I'm really happy with it. And I'm so glad it finally sold. No kidding me too, but just for, thank you. Thank you. So any writers out there that are listening, thinking I've submitted a book and it didn't sell my career is over. That's not true.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:It doesn't have to be. I mean, there've been many times that I've wanted to quit and there there've been a few times where I did quit for a few months. I was really discouraged. I mean, you, you, you put so much into these books and you're sure they're going to sell and be a big deal. And then nobody wants it. It's not the right time. You don't have the right editor, you know, for whatever reason COVID comes, who knows, but it's, you just need to get the right book in the right hands at the right time. And you never know if that's going to happen, but you know, you stick it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Keep, keep trying. Yep. So are there any of those books that haven't sold yet, but continue to call to you that you, you hope maybe someday I can return it
Speaker 3:Thirst. There's a couple, there's a couple, I mean, there's some old books that I loved, but if I ever pulled them out from under the bed, they would need so much work that it's like, Ugh, do I really, really want to go back there? But there's a couple of the military ones that I thought were really cute. There's one called Emma robot. And it's about a girl in her Android that I thought would be really cute. And another one about it's called Birdbrain and it's about a girl who wants a puppy or kitten so badly and ends up with her uncle's parrot when he goes on sabbatical. And it's partially inspired by my horrible parent that I have. Um, although the one in the book learns language, a meaningful language and speaks and, and a little bit of magical realism there. So, but it was a cute book and, and there's not a lot of books about parrots out there.
Speaker 2:True. Yeah. Cats, dogs get all the love. Yeah. Yeah. Well maybe
Speaker 3:It's, they're scary. And they buy,
Speaker 2:Yeah. I guess my Delaney really wants a parrot. Apparently Maguana those are like her top two.
Speaker 3:Don't do it.
Speaker 2:No I've told her. I just don't think a parrot is, is in the works or an iguana, maybe a gecko. I feel like we could handle a gecko
Speaker 3:Ella. So just to keep that in mind, honestly, I had a budgie that was the sweetest thing. So I can firmly recommend a budgie. Um, they don't, they don't live super long, but maybe 10 years they think. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But they're sweet and they can talk a little bit,
Speaker 3:But if you really work with them and they're non-intimidating, and I don't even think they can bite there. Yeah. But jeez are sweet. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We had parakeets when I was growing up and I had terrible luck with them. Like they all either got eaten by one of the cats or got some weird wing disease or, I mean, we won, I don't know. We maybe had three or four over time and they all met sad, tragic ending. So I think that's kind of put me off, but yeah. Yeah. Never say never, you know, she can be very persuasive.
Speaker 3:Yes. I'm sure I've heard good things about Guinea pigs, but then you're into a cage situation. So I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. Um, so in addition to, of course being a writer, you are an author's assistant. Uh, tell me, how did that come about?
Speaker 3:So back when I had a day job, I worked, I was the executive assistant for a bank vice president. And I've always been sort of, I'm a spreadsheet nerd, as you know. Um, and I just like office work. I like organizing and that's just sort of my jam. And so back when I worked at the bank, so Lisa McMahon, who was your most recent podcast guests. So we've been friends for a long time and I saw that she needed a little help and I begged her to let me help her with some admin stuff and we chatted about it. And so I worked for her part time, I guess for a couple years while I was, while I still had a day job just answering emails and just organizing, I think, uh, mileage spreadsheets, you know, little things. And then when the bank gave me the opportunity not to work there anymore, I decided to, um, go out on my own and try and do it full time. And, uh, that was seven years ago and I've never turned back. So I have a, Oh, sorry, go ahead. I was just gonna say, I don't have a lot of clients. Was that going to be here next year?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was. I'm just curious how many you work with, because I feel like I keep you very busy,
Speaker 4:Close, so it's
Speaker 3:Because I like to work in a lot of buffer time because I do write my own stuff and I, I always want to keep, um, room open for my own stuff. And if a particular client has a release or something and they need more time out of me or what have you, and some, some clients come in and some go, um, they want to do things on their own and they're not actively writing. Um, I keep a pretty small client list. I probably send out maybe five invoices a month. So I have like a, like a solid five, five or six clients or just one newsletter a month for a couple hours. So it's, it really depends. I mean, it's all, it's all different. So do you
Speaker 2:Have any strategies for how you balance your assistant work versus your own writing?
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:I expected you to be like, yeah, chief. It tells me that I write for these hours and I do emails for these hours.
Speaker 3:No, I don't. I D I do it. I do it as I need to. I mean, I'm a pretty naturally organized person, so perhaps I have a mental spreadsheet. Um, honestly I get up and I do whatever client stuff is pressing first thing in the morning because that's, I find that it's easier to get it out the way. And I'm, I'm not the kind of writer that writes every day either. So if I'm not actively working on a project, um, my, my client's stuff can sort of fill the day. So it really depends. Um, client work always comes first. That's just how it works. I mean, that's what pays the bills more than my own writing anyway, so that's my priority. Um, but yeah, I just, I'm just naturally organized. So it all gets done at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:So if there were an author listening to this who is kind of on the fence, like they're, they're starting to feel maybe like they have too much on their plate, they're considering hiring an assistant. Uh, like what would you recommend to them as far as making that decision, or maybe some advice for working with an assistant? What are some tips?
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's, I mean, there's a lot of good articles out there. I know Kate Tilton has some good articles on her website and maybe we can put it in the, um, in the post, down the road. I, I don't have it off the top of my head obviously, but, um, I think what's most important for, for authors to know about working with an assistant a you need to trust them. Um, you need to work with somebody you trust because you're handing over parts of your career to them. Um, and not necessarily your life, but you need them to have that in their hands. Joanne. I mean, you need to have that trust that, that somebody's going to have your back and do things for you properly. Otherwise, if you have to babysit them, what's the point. What's the point of delegating something to somebody that if you have to babysit and, you know, I mean, there's always an adjustment period where people start working together and you figure out what works best for you, but you have to, you have to be willing to let things go out of your hands. Um, and I think that's hard for a lot of writers because we're inherently self-motivated, otherwise we'd never write our books because nobody hands, a, an aspiring author who hasn't written anything, a pile of money to write books, we write for free until we sell them. So I think that's part of our makeup is that we're self-starters and we get stuff done. So handing off part of our work to somebody else can be difficult. But I think if you're thinking of starting to work with an assistant, prioritize the things that you absolutely hate doing that you're willing to hand off to somebody else. I mean, if, if you hate doing the email or if you, if you hate formatting your books for indie authors, I mean, you can easily hand that off to somebody else, and it can be a value to you to free up writing time to do that. So I think it's, it's important to sit down and figure out what you need to hand off what you don't want to hand off, um, and what you can do yourself and be happy doing. Yeah. Well, I have, of course told you many times that you are a lifesaver for me, and you're actually the third assistant that I worked with. Um, but the first one that, like you said, I was able to really build that trust with, because you are so on top of things and so detail oriented. And so I know that if I ask you to do something, it will be done to really high standards, sometimes even higher standards than I would have had. So I really appreciate it all. So thank you, Joanne. Thank you. Thank you. I, I take a lot of pride in it and it's, I mean, it's important to me that I represent my authors well, and actually, if, if I do my job properly, then people don't know that the author has an assistant. I mean, I'm, I'm a behind the scenes gal. I don't need the claim. I don't need, you know, I just want to do my job properly. And there's nothing more horrifying than making an error in an author having to come back and say, oops, you screwed up. Can you fix this? You know, it's, you know, like anything else I take, I take a lot of pride in it. So that's, it's important to me to do it properly. Yeah. Is it weird for you knowing that you are going to have to like, do a social media on this episode? Yes. Yes. Well, because if, if I normally keep and you, you know, I keep my writing life very separate from my work life. I don't like crossing boundaries and having it seem like, like I'm using one to influence the other. I mean, that's just, that's not my style at all. So yeah, it feels weird because I promote myself in my private stuff. Um, so yes. So feel free to take that over. We'll see. I don't even know it was just the one time, But I'll, I'll take care of the quotes for this one. Don't you worry? We'll we'll work it out. We'll work with it. It was weird. Even just making the graphic with my own head on it. I know. I thought that was strange. Like really judging author photo, like,
Speaker 2:Oh, it's time to get new ones.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And then I tried to get some recently and I made my husband take them and they looked awful. So I'm like, Oh, nobody cares. If they're five, six years old, whatever, we'll do it.
Speaker 2:You look lovely. You're fine.
Speaker 3:Thank you. You,
Speaker 2:Are you ready for the lightning round
Speaker 3:Already? Ready than anybody has ever been in the history of lightning? Right?
Speaker 2:I bet. I bet. You're just going to breeze through this. What book makes you happy?
Speaker 3:Any book with lots of romance? I am a romantic junkie and I particularly like historical romances. I'm not, I'm not going to say specifically any titles because
Speaker 2:[inaudible] lots of good historical arguments as well. What do you do to celebrate an accomplishment?
Speaker 3:Um, whenever I sell a book, I'd get a lobster dinner.
Speaker 2:Oh, good idea.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And that's, it's a really big deal because we live out in the country and there is nowhere around here to get a lobster dinner. So it's at least at least an hour and a half drive to get a lobster dinner, but we do it cause I'm working.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh, that's a good one. I like that way. What advice would you give to help someone become a happier writer?
Speaker 3:Now, this one I struggle with because there's, there's lots of good advice and there's lots of advice. That's good, but it's not good for everybody. But I heard a great quote recently. Um, I saw it was on the S BWI, uh, conference and, um, Henry Winkler, the Fonz, um, was doing a talk and he's a writer, uh, in his later years, he co-writes books with Lin Oliver. And he said about writing, if you don't love it. And if it's not something you and I'm paraphrasing, if it's not something you have to do, go sell shoes. And you know, it's, it speaks to me because if it's, I mean, you've heard my journey. It's hard. It's, it's a hard career. And if you don't love it, go sell shoes because there, there's no reason to do it. If you don't love it. And you have to love it for yourself first and write for yourself, because if you're just going through the motions and you don't love it, there's no point. There's no point. And that sounds like a horrible horribly defeatist answer. But it's true. If you don't love it, find something else that you do love. If you love it, then follow it through and enjoy the process and enjoy writing every day.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I don't think it sounds defeatist at all. I mean, I agree. It is something that we come to because we have a passion for it. And if you don't have that passion, then what's the point. Why would you do that to yourself? Go knit, go, go craft, go. There's just so many other things. Yeah. How do you feel the creative? Well,
Speaker 3:So I have a three part answer here. Um, so little picture, uh, day to day, I have two things that I use to refill my well. One, I sit outside and stare at my having bird feeders and delight in the little hummingbirds coming and going. Um, but that only works in the summer. So I also do felting as you know, so I, I stab special needles into wool roving, and I make creatures and I find that very meditative and relaxing and it keeps my hands busy, which I enjoy. And it's a creativity thing that has nothing to do with writing. Um, so it sort of gets me outside of that so that those are my day to day things, but big picture. And I think this one is probably even more important is I love going to writing conferences and other places where writers are. And I find that to be the single most inspiring and refilling. The well type thing I can do is sitting in a room with other authors and chatting and ranting and raving and inspiring and getting inspiration from other writers who have been on this road or similar road or parallel journeys. There's, there's nothing more inspiring to me than other writers. And that's one of the reasons I love the podcast too, because it feels like I'm in a mini conference with other writers and can get inspired and information and, and, uh, you know, just feel like I with likeminded people
Speaker 2:[inaudible] yeah, no, I agree. Being whether it's a conference or like a writer's retreat being with other writers is one of the most motivating things. Absolutely. All right. Lastly, where can people find you?
Speaker 3:I am mostly active on Instagram, on my own account, um, where you will see pictures, the odd picture of a book, um, but mostly cats and felting. Um, but you can, you can get to that off my website. All my social media is off my website, which is Joanne luvvie.com.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Joanne, thanks so much for joining me. This was an absolute delight.
Speaker 3:I've been looking forward to this for six months. This has been a delight. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:My pleasure readers. Be sure to check out Joanne's newest fish out of water, which comes out on September 22nd. Of course, we always encourage you to support your local indie bookstore if you can, but if you don't have a local indie, you can also check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marissa Meyer. If you're enjoying these conversations, we would love it. If you subscribed and help us spread the word to other readers and writers, you can find us on Instagram at Marissa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast run of course, by the lovely Joanne levee. And until next time stay healthy and cozy in your bunkers and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling little
Speaker 1:[inaudible].