Marissa chats with Annie Sullivan about her newest YA fantasy - A CURSE OF GOLD - as well as creating creepy yet believable villains; the challenge of writing an outline for your publisher when you're a self-proclaimed pantser; how powerful character arcs can embolden readers in real life; and some insider tips on building an author platform.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa chats with Annie Sullivan about her newest YA fantasy - A CURSE OF GOLD - as well as creating creepy yet believable villains; the challenge of writing an outline for your publisher when you're a self-proclaimed pantser; how powerful character arcs can embolden readers in real life; and some insider tips on building an author platform.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books, to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I am your host, Maurice and Myra. Thanks so much for joining me. One thing that is making me happy this week is it. We finally have pumpkins growing in our garden. I will admit this has been an, a Bismal year for our vegetable garden. I have completely neglected it. Uh, at this point it's pretty much just all weeds, but somehow miraculously, the pumpkins seem to be pretty content having been neglected, uh, and they are now running a muck all over the garden. Um, and I think we have maybe like 15 or 20 small pumpkins developing and different stages. And it's so exciting. And so my girls have already picked a couple and painted them to decorate our porch. And I'm thinking we're going to have plenty to make all sorts of pumpkin desserts this year. So yay. The garden has not been a complete failure after all on top of that. I am of course, so happy to be talking to today's guest. She is a senior copywriter at the publishing house, John Wiley and sons, and the author of the why a fantasy novels tiger queen and a touch of gold. The finale to the touch of gold. Duology a curse of gold. Just came out last week. Please. Welcome Annie Sullivan. Hey guys, I'm so excited to be here. I am so excited to have you. How is life in your bunker? Life is good. Life is busy when you've got a book coming out. There's so much to do and tons of fun, preorder giveaways that I'm still mailing out and all that kind of fun stuff. Yeah, no, it is. It's keeps you on your toes this time of year. Oh, it definitely does. But I do love this time of year. Like you said, pumpkins are pretty exciting. The fall, the fall is my favorite time of year. And so I think the next couple of months, there's going to be a lot of fall related things that are making me happy. I love that cozy sweaters and pumpkin, everything and nights by the fire and hot chocolate and all of it. I'm so ready. I'm so ready to be cozy. Yes. I'm there with you. My birthday is October 29th. So like fall is like a big thing and, you know, celebrating with pumpkins and everything like that. That's right. That's right. You're almost a Halloween birthday. My girls are November 1st. So they're also right, right in there. Um, I'm worried about Halloween this year. Like I figured we're probably not going to be able to go trick or treating, what are we going to do? I have heard people are thinking of hiding candy either in their yards or in their houses. Kind of like almost like Easter eggs. That's a clever idea. There. You got free tip. I do have one reader suggest that like we have, you know, our close friends and family, people that were not quarantined from, and everyone could like take a room in the house and have the girls go to door to door throughout the house. Yeah. That's fun. Yeah. You know, so we'll see. We'll, we'll try to do something to keep it fun. Yes. Yes. Well, I'll think of something we'll make it special. I know. I know. What are you going to do? Give up on Halloween? No, you can't do that. No, I just want to cut it down. Like, yeah. Um, okay. I have to start by telling you, uh, Annie, I am a little mad at you. Oh, okay. Oh no. The book that I am currently working on, my working title for it was a curse of gold. Oh, you stole it. That's not true. You totally beat me to it. Fair and square. But then when you're we can share, we've been chair. I don't think that's allowed for you anything now. Oh, well thank you. Yeah. We publish this email to inquire about having you on this show. And you know, she put, you know, Annie Sullivan author of a cursive gold and I was like, Oh, well, there it goes. I'll go back to brainstorming, go back. I'll brainstorm with you. I'll give you all the other titles I thought of and considered. Oh yeah. Right. I know we all have a huge long list. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I think that I've come up with a new one that I'm also happy about we're moving on. Um, but yeah, I thought it was so funny. So funny to see that title pop up. I know. And I know there's a lot of listeners cause we haven't actually announced that book yet. So for those listeners who are like collecting hints and data about what is Marissa working on next, there you go. There's another big hint. I'm excited along with them. Okay. Why don't we start with you telling listeners what is a touch of gold and its sequel a cursive gold about? So a touch of gold is about the curse to daughter of King Midas who has to set out to retrieve her father's scold when it gets stolen. Um, because you know, she was once turned to gold by her father as a child. So she has some lasting side effects. One of which is she can sense the objects. Her father turned to gold. So when they get stolen, of course she has to be the one to go find them. And then of course the SQL a cursive gold follows her as she tries to break the golden curse that holds her and her father captive. And she'll have to face the trickiest gods, the world, or the underworld has ever known if she wants to save her father and her kingdom. And is it a spoiler to say that the trickiest God is diet diet? I say diagnoses, diagnosis diagnoses either one, I think definitely nice boiler easily. One of the best gods, right? Yes. Yes. I had a ton of fun researching him and just finding out all about him. Cause I mean, in so many cases he just kind of pitched just like the drunken God or like I was like fun, but I'm like, let's take that up a notch. He likes chaos. So let's see where that leads. Right. There is more, there's more beneath the, there is, there is. And that's what I love to do in my books is to take, you know, something that, you know, like, like Greek mythology and just give it a little, a little twist, like you think, you know, what's happening, but then there's something new added to. Right. And that was the one thing that I was wondering, um, because you know, it's inspired by King Midas. Um, not really a retelling like Maura, uh, what happened after. Um, and so I was curious, like at what point you clearly researched Greek mythology and used it as an inspiration where you very much trying to recreate the world in which the Greek myths may have existed in or where you like know and have the seed of an idea. I'm going to take that and now build my own fantasy world, uh, around. I really wanted to build my own fantasy world around it by taking that, that heart of the Greek mythology. Um, so you know, the Greek gods are in there and I think that's, that's helpful. Cause you know, you know who Poseidon is, you know, who Triton is. Um, and you don't have to do the extra work of just creating a new, uh, system of gods. Um, so yeah, I think I really wanted to take what was there and, and play with it in a new way and take that Greek myth and just expand on it and really look at, you know, what did happen to King minus his daughter after he turned her to gold because in the original myths, she's such a forgotten character. She's just a means to an end so that he realizes like, Oh, it was really bad for me to ask to turn things to go because I turned my daughter to gold. So yeah. Right. Exactly. Like, oops, my bad. I messed up on that one. Um, so yeah, I was like, man, that's going to have some lasting side effects. If your dad turned you to gold, like what happens next? So that's the story I really wanted to explore. Yeah. No, and I, I mean, I, I love that, you know, the mightest story, it's one of those stories that's, you know, very allegorical, like it comes with this built in warning, don't be greedy, like learn to appreciate the things in your life that are more valuable than gold and material wealth, and yet you've taken it. And you kind of, you twisted that, that message to where, you know, our main character Cora at the start of the series, not only is she not interested in gold, like she's afraid of it. She's terrified of gold. She's seen the harm that can come from it. Like, is that a theme that you were wanting to play with? Or where were you wanting to take that? Cause I just thought it was so compelling the way that you did that with her. Yeah. I've really wanted to focus on almost her anxiety around gold, you know, that, that exists between her and it, because she does have some magical Golda abilities, spoiler alert, but I really want it to look at, you know, what those abilities would be, how would they affect you, um, and how you're raised and what you're taught about them can really impact you and what you know about the world, what you know about yourself and what you think you're capable of. Um, so yeah, I really want it to almost be almost like a PTSD anxiety kind of reaction for her, um, because of what happened to her when she was a kid. So I want to know because you know how, when you're writing a book, you're just like so immersed in it. And as you're going about your daily life, it's impossible not to like see things in the world around you that make you think of the book, make you think of the characters. Um, you know, you're kind of seeing everything through the lens of whatever story you're working on at any given time. And that made me wonder, like for you, are you now, do you love gold and not, not like as a material thing, but like as an aesthetic thing, like I thought you could like have an office full of beautiful gold plated things by way. I pretty much do either way either she loves it or she never wants to see anything gold ever again. It's a little bit of both. I mean, I have what I call my Instagram room, which is where I take a lot of my Instagram photos and have all my props. And there are so many everything from gold skulls to gold candles, to gold coins, to gold treasure chests to, I mean, just so many things made of golden. I didn't even own, I think, I don't think I want a single piece of gold clothing before I published that book. And then I became known for matching my book covers when I do appearances. I love, I have like, I have like 12 golden black dresses that are like gold sequins. I go all out, I guess. Um, but yes, I have way too many gold props, um, more than I could possibly count. So I guess I'm in love. And every time someone sees something that's gold, they're like, Oh, we should get that for Annie. And I'm like, alright, I'll take it right. There are worst things. Right, right. I mean, if fans want to send me gold in the mail, like I am cool with that too guys. Like a particularly enjoyed jewelry and Spanish. Yes. Yes, exactly. That's so funny. You know, I know when cinder first came out, suddenly everyone was giving me red shoes. So I had like a bunch of red shoe, Christmas ornaments and red shoe, wine corks and red shoe staplers. And I like just random collection of things that are red shoes. Yup. That's how I feel. And then, so for tiger queen, my, my second book, then I had all tiger print clothing and stuffed animals and all this other stuff. And yet people would send me like, they'd be like, look at these tiger Stripe shoes. And I'd be like, Oh man, that heel is too high for me guys. Like I don't have that kind of scale. We're still going for practical. Right. I know now with tie you're King and tag, everyone's calling Carol. So that makes very interesting Google alerts because I have Google alerts set up for the, the phrase, tell your queen. And now it's all Carol Baskin is on dancing with the stars and this is happening, that's happening. And I'm like, okay, I should be able to capitalize on that somehow. Right. No kidding. There's gotta be a way to connect the two. I had not heard that. That is funny. Well, I mean, if you sign up for some Google alerts for tiger queen, you would know, I'll know all the things tiger King and I really want Oh yes. Although you think I also have Google alerts set up for a touch of gold and you would think, I would know the price of gold by now because they get all these alerts that like the price of gold has gone up and I'm like, Oh, okay, well that's good to know, I guess, but good to know for all the gold stuff that people are giving you that. Yeah, exactly. I know how much it's worth now, now. Right, right. Wait a minute. We're supposed to be warning people away from material wealth. Yes, yes. Guys read the book. You'll know that's right. That's right. Okay. I really want to talk to you about villains because you have some of the creepiest villains and some of the details like, uh, I don't think it's a spoiler to, to tell people like there's a villain that has skulls tattooed on his eyelids. And there's one that has like, literally has access carved into his skin and like it's all, so this girl and dark and creepy and I loved it. So tell me, what is your process when it comes to deciding who your villains are going to be and to create them and try to make them just as creepy and awesome as you can. I actually, I love writing villains. I don't know what it is about them. I think it's because, I mean, I hope people think I'm a nice person. I try to be such a nice person. And then these villains are like the exact opposite. So maybe it's like letting my dark side out. Like I can finally be like, yes, let it out dark side. No, but I think the process kind of just begins with making sure I have someone who can challenge my hero, you know, on a very tangible level, someone who is going to present a lot of problems for them. Um, so it always figures out, you know, who, who is that person who could cause them the most harm, um, and in a touch of gold. One of those is a very awful pirate by the name of captain skulls who also collects the skulls of his victims. Um, and that's something that I thought was just so incredibly creepy. Like just the kind of person you'd never want to see in a dark alley, you know? And he, but he's kind of so thin that he would like almost just kind of disappear in the shadows anyway. So you wouldn't even see him. So you're fine. You're not going to say coming. I'm not sure.
Speaker 3:[inaudible] just go with it. Just go. No, he definitely is very
Speaker 2:Creepy, but I love just adding in those little details and I actually am kind of sad cause he had much more of a backstory in one of the original drafts that got cut. Um, so I was always like, man, I should do like a little tiny thing about him, but I don't think anyone wants to read a really messed up backstory about a bill and like that. So maybe not readers love, villains. This is what I love hearing about villain backstory. And I think she would make a great one cause I am so curious about him. Yes. I had this whole like from his childhood, everything kind of like worked out of like what was going on, which is sad because like I'm not a huge plotter, I'm more of a pastor. Um, and so I just going into it, I didn't know much about him, but then he kind of appeared and then I was like, Oh, this is why he is the way he is. And this is what happened to him as a kid and, and different things like that. So I think it is all about, you know, looking at your villain and um, I think it's Tom Hiddleston who plays Loki, another kind of favorite villain of mine, um, who says that, you know, every villain is a hero in his own mind. So that's something I always like to take into account too. Is who is that villain and what does he think he's winning. Even if it's something illegal that he's doing, maybe he thinks he's providing a good life for himself or he thinks he'd make a better leader or whatever it is that that person's after. Um, that's kind of a big motivation as well. I do question the idea that captain schools' would ever think that he was the hero though, right? Embracing the villain thing he does. He does. He's a little over the edge. He's a little like, this is who I am and he is not going to apologize for it. Um, and if he tried to, he would just, if you tried to make him, he would just chop off your head man. That way I know, I know he's scary, but um, but villains are just, they're fun to ride. Cause they're just so evil at times. And so now, and he really was great and I, like you say, he's so unapologetic about it. And I love that. Like I love, I love both sides, the villains that like kind of walk that line between good and evil and you're not always sure which way they're going to go. And like, they can really justify things to a point that kind of messes with your own head as the reader. Um, but I also, I love a villain. Who's just like, Nope, this is what I want. And I'm going to do whatever it takes to get it like kind of admirable about that. He's a little bit like that mustache twirling villain who's was like, I'm going to tie you to the train tracks. He just thinks it's fun. Yeah, for sure. So you say you're not a plotter, you're more of a pantser at what point did you know this was going to be a duology I got to the end of the first book I literally got to the end and I was like, Oh, well they didn't break the curse. So I guess they need to do that. They would the curse on the first one. No, I was just like, let's write and see what happens because I'm a total pantser like, I try, I definitely like know where we're going to end up. Like I have an ending scene in mind, but I don't know a lot of what's happened. Like I kind of described it for going on a road trip from like New York to California. I'm like, okay, well we might stop. And sh Congo, we're probably going to hit the bathroom at like a McDonald's over here in like Iowa or something. But like, I don't know. I don't know what else. And who knows who we're going to meet along the way. Like sometimes people just show up like, um, chorus, cousin heady kind of just showed up on board and came along for the ride. Oh, that's so great. I'm the opposite. I'm a total. Plotters what always, I love hearing. Pantsers talk about it and like how their mind works and how the plot developed. So organically, which to me, like, I think about doing that in my anxiety just immediately skyrocket. So they would drive me bonkers, not knowing where things are heading. So magic that you guys know. See, I think you have badged it. Cause I mean, I've tried, I've had to plot for the sequel. I had to do an outline and I was like, my publisher was like, so where's the outline for this? And I was like, what do you mean the outline? I don't have an outline until I finished the book. So this is outline.
Speaker 4:I know I'm like, who does that?
Speaker 2:And on tour with my friend Lauren Mancy who wrote the memory thief and she is a complete plotter. She has like color-coded PostIt notes. So it'd be so fun when the kids would be like, how do you guys write? And she's like, well, let me tell you about my post it notes. So I'm over here. Like I'll just write what I feel, see what comes out,
Speaker 4:You know?
Speaker 2:Right. Your publisher made you write the outline for book two. How well did you stick to that outline? I actually did really well. I almost like, yeah, exactly. I feel like people are like, well, they made me write an outline and then I completely ignored it. Well, they made me write like three outlines cause they were like, so here's a fun story. Right? Um, cause we've read a curse of gold. They go to a really cool Island, um, towards, towards the end of the book. And my publisher was like, we love it. We love it. They go to this Island, but they can't take a boat to get there. And I was like, wait, wait, can you say that again? You want them to go to an Island but not take a boat? And they're like, yeah, they took a boat in the first book. So we can't take another boat. And I was like, Oh, okay. I will work on getting to the Island without a boat, which really greatly influenced the plot a lot. That's so funny. I love it in their heads. They're like, this has been done. We have to write that off. We cannot can't redo that.
Speaker 4:Yes. Yes.
Speaker 2:Those funny, weird things that just sort of happen and changed the whole course. Um, but yeah, so I had to rewrite the outline a couple times to get it there. Um, so that, by that point I was like, alright, I'm just gonna stick to it. Cause there's only so many ways you can get to an Island without a boat. Yeah, no kidding. Here we are. Hang gliding before you know it.
Speaker 4:Right, right.
Speaker 2:It turned into the Lord of the rings, the Eagles that show up
Speaker 4:That hasn't been done. Right. Never been done and also in the backup
Speaker 2:Photos on the other. And you're like, wait, where did these guys come from? No, that makes me so curious to know. So they, you, as a, you're usually a pantser you had to write this outline. Um, how was that writing process? Did it make it better for you? Did you hate every minute of it? Like what, how did you feel about that? I hated writing the outline because I think the thing I love about being a pastor is experiencing the story along with the reader. Like I learn what's happening as they learn what's happening. And so if I'm having fun, they're having fun. If I'm like surprised and they're going to be surprised. Um, whereas with an outline, I'm like, Oh man, okay, well then this happened. So like I just had to find little ways to make it fun. Like come up with new creatures or new little side quests, little things like that, that kind of just get a little umph to it to be like, Oh, well it wasn't expecting that. So kind of keep it interesting that way. But then the actual writing you were like, yeah. Okay, now we're back to the fun part. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean that made it easier to like get through it and to get through it. I'm so hard now to really like make it work and um, and to make it feel like, like it was fun again. Yeah. So one of the lines from the first book, um, that really stood out to me is when Cora is told you are not your curse. And you know, it's obviously with Cora and this book it's referring to a literal curse, you know, her father was cursed and that curse has now kind of passed onto her in a really, uh, interesting and unique way. Um, but I feel like that's one of those things that you can draw a lot of parallels on to the real world and this idea that like, you can, you can change your circumstances and you can rise above, you know, whatever in your life, you, the hand that you've been dealt, um, which is of course also a theme that's like big and Cinderella stories. So something that I also have loved playing with as a writer, what do you think that made that theme and that idea of that you are not your curse? Like what was it about Nike that appealed to you? I really love the idea behind it. You know, Cora is a very unique character. She has golden skin, she's bullied in the first book. There are rumors about her and these are things that, that teenagers and maybe even adults are facing today in the real world. And so my big thing is I want readers to go into the book and meet a character who maybe is a little weak or, you know, doesn't stand up for herself or isn't as strong at first, but really who comes into her own and sort of starts to realize that the things she thought that set her apart that made her different might actually be her biggest strengths. You know, um, like the thing she was frightened of, um, really could be the things that help her save her kingdom. And so I want other people to recognize that the things that maybe are holding you back or that you think are your weaknesses, are the things that set you apart and make you unique and they can help you overcome things that, that you're facing in your life. So I want people to come out of the world, getting a little bit more hopeful, a little bit more ready, I guess, to, to face the world again and say, Hey, my favorite characters, overcame bullying or anxiety or whatever it is. And maybe, maybe I can too. Um, so I think the whole message is like, yeah, you are not your curse. You get to choose who you want to be. And that can change. You can change right now every day is a new page. Now that's a wonderful way to say it. And, and I agree. I mean, books, they're one of the, you know, one of the tools that we can use to kind of put ourselves into these, the shoes of other characters and be emboldened by that and be inspired by that. It's one of the most magical things about books and also about being a writer and being a storyteller, I feel. Oh yeah. And I think, I think that's what I love. I love stepping into a character shoes and, and becoming that character, whether it's, you know, cinder or, or Cress or someone else, um, you know, I love just going into those different worlds, meeting those people, um, and following their adventure in their story. And there's nothing better than that. And I think that's the power of fiction and fantasy, um, is you can face big real world issues and not even call them. Cause I mean, they would never call it anxiety or anything like that, just because she's afraid, she's afraid of this, you know, they don't use the terms we use. And so that's almost a way to kind of not hide the real world issues in there, but just place them in there in a context where like you pick up on them and then you realize, Oh, well maybe I do that. Or maybe I can overcome that because she overcame that. Yeah, no, that is one of the things about fantasy and scifi. You can kind of have this distance between the real world and the story world, um, that is nevertheless no less real or important. Yes, exactly. Exactly. That's why I love writing fantasy. I know. I know. Um, so I listened to the first book, a touch of gold on audio book. Uh, and I got to say your narrator is fantastic. Thank you. She's British. So I know, I know the accident who doesn't love listening to something with an accent. I guess listeners who are, you know, from England will be like, yeah, whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Everyday thing here now. But, but I loved it.
Speaker 2:It was one of those audio books that like made, had me making up more excuses to like, what else do I have to do today? Organize this drawer. Maybe it's time to fold these clothes. Like just so I had a reason to keep listening. So thank you for that. I was very proud.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 2:So I know everyone's well, not everyone's, but you know, we have different experiences with, with the creation of audio books. I'm like I had no control or was not asked or questioned at all. Uh, how about you? Like, were you involved at all in the choosing of the narrator or the creation of the audio book? Um, not for a touch of gold or a cursive gold. Um, they just kinda like happened. Um, so tiger cleaning. I got to listen. Yeah. They just happened. They was just like one day they showed up. They're like, actually, no, I think, I didn't even know they were making an audio book until the person who was recording it tagged me on like Instagram and they're like, Oh, recording this today. And I was like, Oh, well, that's cool. You could ask often, um, when I go to events, anyone who's listened to the audio book for some reason thinks that I read it. And so the coaching, they were like, I thought you were British. I'm like, Oh no, no. I'm like, are you listening to the audio book? Didn't you? And they're like, yeah, I'm like that wasn't me. I wish I wish I could do it. Awesome. British accent, but I can't, and I'm not going to drive because it sounds terrible. Yeah. No, I Should be able to do an Irish brogue, but I can't even do that one. My mom can, but I just do your mom Irish. I mean, not really, but I mean, we have Irish heritage, so maybe that's it. I don't know. I find four leaf clovers all the time, if that helps, like, Oh geez. How lucky that's my skill. You guys, I can not do an accent, but I can find you a four leaf clovers.
Speaker 4:Yes, yes, exactly.
Speaker 2:Being a writer, you have also worked in publishing. Um, you're currently a copywriter at a publisher, uh, and then you've also done editorial and publicity work. So being on the other side of things, uh, being on the inside of the publishing world, do you have any tips or advice that you would give to authors who are listening to this for maybe how to work with a publicist or how to reach out to publish? Or maybe if they're, uh, getting the ball started on their publishing journey? Like what would you tell someone who's in that position? Yeah, definitely. I mean, if you don't go for an agent then, um, don't be afraid to reach out to a publisher. If you can find the names of the acquisitions editors on LinkedIn or on a different side, or even on, you know, like, um, the publishing company's website, like it's okay to reach out to them and say, here's my proposal. Um, cause you know, we, don't a lot more nonfiction out at John Wiley and sons. Um, but it's okay to reach out to them and say, here's my proposal. Here's what I'm thinking. Here's the book. Um, but then makes you follow that up with actually meeting your deadlines. We have tons of stories of others who were like, my internet was down for four weeks and you're like, Um, definitely do that. But, um, as far as working with like a publicist or your, um, I think it's always important to remember that, you know, marketing is paid. Publicity is not. Um, so one of the things you can kind of influence with publicity is, you know, write a bunch of articles, you know, on different topics. You know, we might write, you know, something on fairytale, retellings or fairytale, retellings versus re-imagining versus continuations of stories. You know, what's hot in the market right now, that kind of stuff. Um, or even like the new Greek mythology, you know, how to take what, you know, and twist it. Um, something like that. Those are all articles I either wrote or offered to write my publicist, kind of be like, Hey guys, check this out. And I would definitely say, start building your platform. Now that is something that publishers are going to look for. No matter what you write, that's especially important for, um, for nonfiction, but also very important for fiction as well. And so something you can do is, you know, if you're not, especially for young adult, if you're a young adult writer out there, get on Instagram, you know, get on Twitter and start building that following, start interacting with people. And I know it can be hard. It can be intimidating. I was definitely intimidated when I got on, but you start to like, you know, learn different things, check out books to Graham, which is the Instagram corner of the world. Um, and just start looking into that and do giveaways, you know, um, have people follow you and give away books, signed books, if you can get them. I mean, obviously it's harder right now. Cause a lot of authors are not going anywhere. Um, but some different stores are offering those. So definitely look into that as ways to get people, to follow you, to build your platform because that'll go a long way and getting your foot in the door. That was all such amazing advice. I got like this service level. I was like, Oh man, we could go like dark and deep into this. A lot to be said, it's not a topic that we touch on a whole lot in this podcast. But I have to imagine that there are some authors right now who are probably going to rewind and start taking some notes. That was all really good things to hear. I hope so. I hope so. So a curse of gold is the finale of this duology what are you working on next? I'm working on a couple of new things. I'm working on a picture book. I'm looking, working on a new standalone. Why a novel that's going very slowly. So I'm just trying to work on that. But it's been, it's hard, you know, during a pandemic, you, you get tired. And like I said, I'm still working full time. So it's like trying to fit it in here, there everywhere else between going to the Apple orchard and getting our pumpkins and we don't have them in our garden. Like you do. That was your first mistake. I know. I know right next year, next year I'll have you send me some seeds and then I can be know that's the magic Marissa Meyer. Pumpkin's hadn't even occurred to me to save the seeds from our own. Pumpkin's mindful you can plant science. Nope. I'm a writer. I do science. So I know we just this morning cause we're doing the homeschooling thing. So yes. Um, and just this morning we did the, uh, Mentos in the Cola bottle. Yeah. It was exciting. And it's like, then I'm trying to sort of, kind of explain why this happens. And I'm like, I didn't know, kids science. It's just cool. Right? You're like, there's some sort of reaction and something happened. I don't know, chemical carbonation, blah, blah, blah, Because he's a really big words. And then they'll be like, okay, cool. And they'll run off. And you're like, I got it. It's so smart.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay. Um, we are going to wrap this up with our happy writer lightning round. Okay. What book makes you happy if I say cinder? Is it like awful now? I love singing and there's amazing. Although Kress, maybe crass. Um, but I also love frost blood by Ellie Blake care of all by Stephanie Garber. Um, Oh man. I didn't know so many may Cabot, huge fan of hers. So she's from Indiana where I'm from. So I like to pretend that we're like going to be friends someday. Right? Right. Totally. She's like don't stalk me. If you had King Midas touch, what is the first thing you would turn to gold? Ooh. Um, probably like a rock because I'd be like, is this working? Let's just try it. Let's let's find out if this works. It was a very practical answer. What do you do to celebrate an accomplishment? I eat cake and pizza too much of it. How do you feel the creative? Well, I try and take breaks. Try to relax, go for long walks. And those really helped me as well or watch good movies or read good books to really get my creative juices flowing. What advice would you give to help someone become a happier writer? I would say trust yourself. Don't be so hard on yourself. This can be a very, um, hard business, a very lonely business. Oftentimes your family may not understand or be supportive or they might say, Hey, you've been trying really long time to get an agent or whatever. Um, but don't give up. That would be my biggest piece of advice is because it just takes one. Yes. Either from an agent or from an editor. Um, so just keep going and keep believing in yourself. It took me a hundred different, you know, rejections from, from agents to find an agent. So please keep going. Um, and just know that you have it within you. And it's the ones who keep going, who don't give up, who, who get a deal on a book published. So I believe in you guys, so keep going.
Speaker 3:[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Writers out there. You can this lastly, where can people find you? Oh yeah, you can find me on Instagram and on Twitter at a N N S U L L I V a or just like search or any solvent. I'll come up. I'm also on Facebook again to search author, any self and you can find me on my website and he sold them an author.com and there's a contact form there that comes directly to me. So you're always welcome to reach out. I love talking with fans or readers even just want to talk about books. We can fan girl about cinder because you know, I love that one obviously seriously. Like I will write you back, write me that center because I love it so much. So, so funny. Well, there you go guys. Good. Good. We didn't know Andy. Thank you so, so much for coming on the show today. Well thank you for having me. This was so much fun. I really enjoyed it. Readers. Be sure to check out a touch of gold and it's, CQL a curse of gold, which just came out last week. Of course, we always encourage you to support your local indie bookstore if you can. But if you don't have a local indie, you can also check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marissa Meyer. If you're enjoying these conversations, we would love it. If you subscribe and helped us spread the word to other readers and writers, you can find us on Instagram at Marissa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy and cozy and your bunkers and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling a little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1:[inaudible].