The Happy Writer with Marissa Meyer
Writer's Block? Rejection? Impostor Syndrome? Writing is full of ups and downs, but we can still find plenty of joy on this creative journey! Bestselling author Marissa Meyer interviews writers and industry professionals about books, craft, and publishing, to find out how we can all bring more joy to our writing process and career.
The Happy Writer with Marissa Meyer
A Día de Muertos-Inspired Paranormal Fantasy with Aiden Thomas - Cemetery Boys
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Marissa chats with Aiden Thomas about his debut paranormal romance - CEMETERY BOYS - as well as the importance of exploring themes of self-acceptance and belonging in YA fiction, particularly for trans youth and other marginalized voices; avoiding the deux ex machina ending; the brilliant idea of commissioning art of your characters to help keep you inspired; and how Swoon Reads - a social media platform that can help non-agented books get noticed - played a role in Aiden's nonlinear publishing journey.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Order The Happy Writer: Get More Ideas, Write More Words, and Find More Joy from First Draft to Publication and Beyond https://bookshop.org/a/11756/9781250362377
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Speaker 2Welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I'm your host, Marissa Meyer. Thanks so much for joining me. One thing that has been making me happy this week is that I have been getting to spend a lot of extra time with my grandma lately. She's almost 92 years old. Um, she's, you know, what you would expect from being 92? I'm not getting around super well lately and it's been a tough year with COVID. You know, our whole family has kind of backed off and thought we don't want to risk it. So it's been really, really tough for us all. Um, but in the last few weeks I've taken over , um , helping her and going to visit her every week, a few times a week. And it's just been so great getting to see her and spend some time with her. And I'm really just so grateful that she's still here with us. Um , and now she is saying that she wants to listen to this podcast. So I have to try to figure out how to teach her, how to get podcasts , um , and maybe get her device. I don't know if she has a device that will let her listen to podcasts, but hopefully we can figure it out because she says she wants to start listening. Uh, so grandma, if you're hearing this, I love you. I hope you enjoy the show. And of course I am so happy to be talking to today's guest. He's a 2020 debut author whose paranormal romance cemetery boys came out last month and became an immediate indie and New York times. Best seller. Please welcome Aiden Thomas to be here , to talk to you. This is the coolest thing ever. I am so excited to have you. Thank you for joining me today. How was life in your bunker? Oh my gosh. I live in a 500 square foot studio apartment and I have a dog and I have a cat. So , um, it's been, let's call it cozy, very cozy. Um , saving grace of my apartment is that I have a whole wall of windows. So I actually have a really beautiful view of the river. I live in Portland, so I have use of downtown and I can see Mount hood. So nice things to look at. Absolutely. No kidding. No, that really does make a huge difference. Having that little bit of connection to the outside world. Totally. Yeah. I'm just North of you. Oh, really? We're that? Close the smoke in your area. Oh gosh. It's cleared up a bit every
Speaker 3Once in a while, we'll get like a kind of random hazy patch, like last night, for some reason, the sunset, like I could stare directly at the sun and it was like this bright red ball. So every once in a while it's bad, but it's a lot better than it was. Um, I took a vacation little over a week ago just to like get out of Dodge and all the fire. And it was funny cause um, I went with my two friends who I'm corn teaming with and uh , when we got to our location, it was like nice and everything smelled good. And I went to unpack my clothes and I opened up my suitcase and I picked up my hoodie and it just reached a fire and it was so bizarre. Cause it's like, when I was at home, I didn't really notice a smell inside my apartment. But as soon as I took myself and like went somewhere where there wasn't smoke, it just everything raped . It was totally bizarre . That is bizarre. Yeah.
Speaker 2Or our census have been dead into it at this point.
Speaker 3Yeah. I think that's exactly it.
Speaker 2Yeah. Yeah. No, that's funny. Cause it was, it's been, it cleared up for awhile while , um , you know, similar to what you're saying. And then this morning it was really kind of foggy and nobody knew like, is this Bob? Or is it smoke? And it doesn't smell like smoke. So it must be fun . But now I'm wondering like maybe it is, and we're just completely clear .
Speaker 3Yeah. It's really hard to tell. I used to be an EMT and I worked with the fire department. So like usually whenever, like it gets weird outside of my friends will text me and they'll be like, is this fire like, is this smokers that like , I'm like the resident expert.
Speaker 2I like that. We're not going to check the news. Let's call Aiden , what does he say? Why don't we start with you telling listeners what is cemetery boy ?
Speaker 3Yeah. So cemetery boys. Uh , what I like to call it is a queer Latinex ghost story turned wrong, calm about yadda Farrell , who is a trans boy who is trying to prove to his family and his brew ex community that he is a real brew hope. But because he's trans, they're not convinced that the traditional rites of passages will work for him so determined to prove them wrong. Yeah . Joel goes through the ceremony on his own and decides the best way to prove himself is to sum the spirit of his recently deceased cousin. However things go wrong. When he instead accidentally summons Julian Diaz, the resident bad boy of his high school. And now I'm Julian are stuck together until they find out what happened to Julian and [inaudible] released his spirit to the afterlife.
Speaker 2And can I just add sparks fly?
Speaker 4Yeah. There's a lot of like,
Speaker 3There's a lot of chaos and shenanigans and it , it was so much fun to write and um, yeah , it was a blast .
Speaker 2I gotta say, I love Julian so much. And like he, you introduced this character and the moment we meet him, it's like, you can just see all of these stereotypes for me . Like he's the bad boy. He's probably going to be like smoldering and dangerous. And then you proceed to break every one of those. And he's just like coolest funniest, like almost goofball type. I just loved him.
Speaker 3Yeah. Yeah. The Google type is the perfect description. It's really funny because , um, I don't think that Julian is, or his type is very common for love interests , especially within fantasy. You have like a very kind of like, like you were talking about like dark and broody , uh , love and trust . And then you have Julianne who he can't sit still. He talks really loud and he, everything that's in his brain comes out with no filter and he's all over the place. Uh , yeah. He's like a chaotic Scorpio and um, yeah, he's, he's uh , such a goofball, like you said. And I think , I thought that that was really important for this story in particular is to have a love interest who is really like a 16 year old boy. Um, yeah, so that was like, I was like, yes, good. I get to just kind of three wheeled with this agent of chaos, which was a total blast.
Speaker 2I love that. So perfect for Gabrielle who is like very, really watching very carefully what he says. And he's very careful and cautious going through life and going through the world very kind of hesitant and shy and then to pair him pair the two together. And you could like, there's so many yet moments where you, Andrea was just like, I don't know what to do with this.
Speaker 4Yeah. Andrew is very like along suffering throughout the whole book.
Speaker 3It's like doing his best to try to keep the writings on Julian . And he was like, he was like, you're, you're an idiot, but gosh, darn it.
Speaker 2It's exactly how I would feel meeting this person. I get it. So everything that I know about DIA de Muertos, I pretty much learned from Coco the movie right now , your wonderful book. Um, and I love seeing, you know, obviously with that very like, this is, this is all that I know is what we've seen in cocoa , but then like seeing that the , some of the things that are similar in cemetery boys, like with the Mary marigolds and the , um, is it, is it Calaveras sat there and like those traditions playing apart , but then you also have a lot of stuff that was like, okay, well that was not in cocoa . And so I'm really curious, like how much of the world and the magic system where you taking from like real world traditions and heritage versus like how much did you make up ?
Speaker 3Yeah. So I think it was really fun and kind of important when I came up with this whole book idea to begin with was that when it came time to being like, okay, what's this magic system going to look like? Um, even though like at its kind of core, it's like men are supposed to do this one thing, women are supposed to do the other. So men are supposed to summon spirits and release them to afterlife . And women are supposed to be able to heal the bodies and minds and souls of the living. And, but when it came to like the actual magic and how the practices go, I wanted everything really intrinsically related to DIA de Muertos to this really Holy holiday for us. And also for like this blue hex community that it came up with. So when it comes to like the rituals of DIA de Muertos, how that works and how , um, we believe that we seminar ancestors back to the world of the living for those two days , um, I wanted to take those really beautiful , um, beliefs and practices that we do and make them just very literal in cemetery boys. So like for example, when they're setting up condos in the cemeteries , um, marigolds within cemetery boys, like literally helps guide , um, like his mom back to the land of the living so she can visit. And , um, so it's kind of just taking all those little practices and making them like real and literal within like how the brew hacks can use their magic , uh , cause I really wanted it steeped and all that tradition. So that was, that was really fun. And it was , uh , fun to explore all the different ways that Latinex , um, cultures celebrate. Do they Mark those , uh, like it's mainly a Mexican holiday and that's how it's recognized. And that's how people are most familiar with. Especially like, you know, from seeing a movie like cocoa , which is so wonderfully done. Um, but other communities also practice it, although they don't call it the Mark, those, they call, they have different names for it. And they have like different little idiosyncrasies that go into the culture. And so I didn't want to paint Latinex culture as like a monolith. So for me, it was really important to recognize that , um, the sprue hex community and their powers and their magic supersede colonialization. So these are Mesoamerican people , um , indigenous folks who had these powers. And then , um , as, you know, generations of time go on, they kind of immigrate and go to different countries, but they're all part of the Latinex culture and it's diverse and it's beautiful. And it was so important to me, to us to have that represented in the book.
Speaker 2Yeah, no, and I mean, it added so much richness too , and you really, you talk about a lot of different characters and the different, you know, parts of the world that they come from and how that plays. You know, these people from Cuba have this special food that they're bringing to the party and, you know , people from Mexico have this special clothing that they're wearing, that's different. And it really added a lot of layers to just the, the culture aspect. And, but like you're saying, it really made it feel like this is something, this , this culture and the blue hex, if it's been around forever, it felt so ancient and ingrained. Um, it was really well done. I really loved it. Thank you so much. I am curious the Jaguar God or God. Yeah .
Speaker 3Um, he has a lot of different names. I think it like in the ancient codex , he's like , um, like death God too , or something you'd have a very innocent way of like coding things, but his name's Baalam , but there's also, so you have like the main Jaguar God or one of the mains , there are so many, which is what I really it's so funny just because like, after writing cemetery, boys, and now I'm like, okay, so what else am I going to write or write about is Mesoamerican death . So there's a lot of different death gods , you know , because lady death herself is a death. Um, but yeah, bottom , he is real. And uh, he has different kinds of representations and in ancient glyphs and stuff like that, sometimes he is like an anthropomorphized , uh , Jaguar, or sometimes he's a humanoid with like cloaked in like a Jaguar, which may or may not appear in the book at one point .
Speaker 4Yeah .
Speaker 3So there's so many of them and they're so cool. And they're so like dark and awesome that like, yeah, I was like, Oh, I have to, I have to have them . I knew that I wanted him involved in my book . So now
Speaker 2Awesome. No, I, those, those sometimes in writing you just get like an image of something and it's cool that you're like, yeah, I will find a way to include that somehow .
Speaker 4Exactly. Yeah . That happens a lot.
Speaker 3I'm going to , I might have a whole like B plot that I want, but I'm going to make it
Speaker 4Happen.
Speaker 2So I want to ask the , you sort of hinted at this thing that may or may not happen at the book we'll of course try to avoid spoilers, but I did want to ask because they're getting into the climax of the book and I'll keep this very big . Um, there are two huge twists, like right back to back. Um, and so I am curious are how much of it did you have planned or were you kind of surprised? Did you know, from the beginning, this was going to happen? Like what, what was your process like?
Speaker 3So I will say that I am notorious, but like, I guess no one really knows about it. Other than my editor. I am the worst at writing endings. Like I ,
Speaker 4Especially like,
Speaker 3Like I, my friends, like among my friend group, I am known as the one who can not guess the endings to like anything to any movies or TV show twists . I am constantly like absolutely floored and surprise anytime
Speaker 2The same way. I totally get that
Speaker 3Really hard when all of a sudden you have to write a book and you have to be that cover it . And I'm like, I don't think so. Um, so for cemetery boys in the, like the very first draft that I wrote, which I had to do in six weeks , um, I, how do I say this? I, I knew one twist, but I hadn't quite figured out the other one yet. Um, and that took the other one having to do with kind of the antagonist and how that , um, unfurled I had, I have this really bad tendency of just having like a do sex Mokena ending. And then like, I know that it's a bad ending, but I just kick it off to my editor. And I'm like, this is bad by BG helped me get better .
Speaker 2See if they noticed ,
Speaker 4Yeah. I'm like, look, I know this is bad.
Speaker 3So the , um, so the other twist was one that I had in mind the entire time because , Oh, I don't know how to get not spoilery I know .
Speaker 4No, it's okay.
Speaker 3Um, but when we're talking about endings and when we're talking about stories with Brown characters and especially ones with queer characters, it was really important to me to have a happy ending. And that's something that I don't really see as a spoiler because I want readers to know, especially in those marginalizations that this is a book that's safe for them and that's going to bring joy and that's going to have a lot of hope in it. So that's , and that part of the story I had in mind, and I knew how I was going to get there from the very beginning. Cause it was really important that how it ended.
Speaker 2Yeah, no, I mean, I of course love a happy ending. Not all of my books have that reader. I love she's such a hypocrite, but no, but I always appreciated it and very much enjoy the ending of this book. And I was worried cause I feel like so often fantasy , um, you know, I'll read the first book and as you're getting toward the end, you're like, Oh gosh, is this a trilogy? And on a huge clipping or in how often does that happen? And I was very pleased that this had a very nice wrapped up and obviously I love trilogies too, but anyway , um, but no that's kind of segues into one thing I wanted to talk about is that I feel like this book , uh , has this kind of overarching theme of acceptance, you know , and not just for Yad real , um , who is of course our protagonist , but there's a lot of characters who are, you know, kind of on the outskirts , um , and kind of outcast or don't feel like they fully fit in for various reasons , uh, with their family or their community or their peers. Um, and that's something that kind of felt like it was coming up again and again. And I think that that's such an important theme to explore, especially in Y a and for young people and just this idea of like that yearning that we feel to be accepted by the people around us, but also self acceptance and how important self acceptance is. Um, so that was just something that I felt coming through a lot in the story. And I feel like you did it in a really beautiful way. Um, could you maybe talk about, like, was that something you were thinking about intentionally or is that something that you, that just kind of like came up in the course of writing it?
Speaker 3Yeah, so that was definitely kind of, one of my main goals is to kind of talk about and explore the different ways of finding hope and acceptance and to like feel loved and supported and the different ways that that looks like. But even more importantly, where that love and support comes from. So for me, it was really important that, okay, backtrack a little, I feel like in most stories about trans kids, either their families fully support them. Like without question, boom , then suddenly they're like the perfect ally. They know how to handle everything, or it's like the other extreme that their family totally rejects them. They get kicked out of the house or those other terrible things that absolutely do happen. Um, but I feel that, and I wanted to pull from my personal experience is that it's usually a lot more complicated than that. It's not black or white. It's not one or the other. Um, it's more nuanced. And I wanted to show Yajaira relationship with his family to reflect more of that experience, a family that isn't intrinsically transphobic, just like uninformed. Uh , there's a learning curve. Uh , Jadranka family is not aggressively or purposefully trying to be hurtful. They aren't bad people. They don't hate Adrielle or those parts of him. They just don't understand it. And oftentimes that teaching falls onto the shoulders of those queer and trans kids, which is so exhausting. And that's basically exactly what agile is going through when we first enter the story. And so when it came to Julian, I really wanted to challenge people's like perceptions when it came to that. Um, it's funny because he's introduced as like this, like you said, like this , uh , school, bad boy, like running the block with his friends and getting into trouble. And I think if someone like randomly saw him on the street, they wouldn't be like, ah, yes, this is a boy who's part of the queer community and understands and accepts different gender. That's maybe not your first thought that was gonna happen . Um, but so again, when I was thinking of a love interest , um, it was important to me to have someone that Yad rural didn't have to teach Julian how to understand them or how to love him. Um , when yeah, it's tells really in that he's trans, it takes about two seconds for Juliana to intake that information, process it, and then act accordingly. And Julian, Julian is gay and he falls for, and is attracted to yeah . Drill without any hangups or crisis over his own sexuality, because Yamhill is a boy . And then like, you know, meanwhile Yajaira has spent years trying to teach as a family to do the same. And , um , it catches him completely off guard once I'm, when he's not with this boy , um , who totally is totally is accepting. And more than that, he's reaffirming. And I think that that's a stage and kind of like the ally process that maybe not a lot of people understand or know how to go about doing it's more than just being like, Oh, I accept you for who you are. It's I understand you. And like, I support you and I reaffirm you for who you are. Um, and like the only thing that you has has to explain about himself to Jillian is like the magic system of the group . So it's , I feel like marginalized kids have that experience all the time, especially queer kids , um , trying to like, they want to feel that so bad. And when you talk about allies , uh, at one point in time, when I was doing an interview, someone asked me , uh, did you have a Marine? So when you were growing up and being like, who I put, she is my like wish fulfillment character of the ally that I wish I had when I was growing up. Cause I didn't have it. Merissa Merissa is not like someone like a friend that I grew up with and I then turned into a character. She is the friend that I wish I had growing up when I was going through my own struggles and complications, figuring out my gender identity, someone who is that steadfast friend who loves and accepts me. And not only that, but acts accordingly, she supports yeah . Drill in the ways that he wants to be supported because she asks and she checks in with him. Um, and I really hope that readers will be able to find that connection and feel seen when they read cemetery boys. I want it to create a story where readers can connect with. [inaudible] like not just being like queer or trans, but also just like universal truths , um , to the basic human experience of like things like struggling to fit in and feeling accepted for who you are and being loved. And , uh , a lot of queer teens, I know for me personally , um, the first time we ever get a sense of belonging or affirmation is with like queer bloggers or YouTube brewers or chick talkers. And , um, of course like obviously characters in books. So even if they can't talk to them personally, seeing people with their identities and seeing them reflected in books or in media , um, it makes them feel validated and gives them a sense of community and comfort. And that's what I really hope that readers get from Juul drill .
Speaker 2Yeah. No, and I, I loved seeing, you know, not just, [inaudible] kind of learning that more self-acceptance but also like your tech having Julian and Merissa there by his side and how they're , like you say, it's not just, I support you. Um, it's also like I'm willing to come to your defense and I'm willing to, you know, encourage you and like push you past your own hangups sometimes. And yeah, no, I think it was, it was lovely. And I loved all the characters. I felt so connected to all of them.
Speaker 3Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly. Yeah. That's the perfect way of putting it.
Speaker 2Um, I wanted to go back to something you said before , uh, did you say that you had to write the first draft in 16 ?
Speaker 3Yeah. So this is, it's a complicated story. So is actually my, my option book. So yeah,
Speaker 2I'm processing that. Go ahead.
Speaker 3First book that I sold to , um, Swoon reads , uh, was my book called lost in the woods , which is actually coming out in March. And , um, that one is really cool. You were actually one of my titles.
Speaker 4Yeah. This is a very cool moment for me,
Speaker 3What it is that they dark fantasy contemporary fantasy reimagining of the Peter pan cannon . Yeah. And so it's set in the, in Historia , which you probably know in Oregon .
Speaker 4Yeah .
Speaker 3Yeah . And it's about Wendy. Um, she went missing when she was younger with her brothers in the woods. Uh, Wendy came back and her brothers just disappeared basically. And so we pick up with her on her 18th birthday and she is , um, kids in her town are going missing again. And a boy named Peter pan appears out of nowhere and claims to know what's going on. And so it turns into , um, a kind of creepy mystery unfolding with , uh, like very atmospheric, dark, creepy shadows and woods and stuff like that. So anyways, so that was the book that I originally sold to them. And did we got through the entire editing process, like lost that everyone's went off to copy edits and , um, I was very impatient and I started like poking my editor. And I was like, when can I talk to like about an option book? And she was like, well, there's like no rush, but if you want to send me some ideas, like go for it. I was like, okay , cool. So I got like five ideas together. And the first one I was like, I have like 50,000 words written for it. Here's a full synopsis and like chapter breakdown. And the second one was like, well, here's a synopsis. And then just got more vague and vague and cemetery boys was at the very bottom of March .
Speaker 4No ,
Speaker 3Cause I don't even know if you could call it a paragraph. It was like a few sentences. Most of them ended in question marks. Cause I didn't really know like what I was going to do with that. And I was like, and I was also kind of like testing the waters. I was like, maybe he's trans. And like, maybe he's also like Cuban and Mexican, like thinking that like, like asking permission basically if I could like write about my marginalizations and it was so funny. Cause I got, I was so nervous. I sent it really late on a Friday and I was like, cool, I don't have to worry about it until Monday. Then my editor like emailed me back super cemetery boys . And I was fascinated. I was like, are you sure? Um , so that was really, really cool. But um, so once a week , yes . So once we went on proposal and McMillan was like, yes, let's buy that. Um, we wanted a really tight turnaround, like originally it was supposed to come out in may of 2020. Um, and so my , my editor was like, so here's the deal. We think that this should actually be your debut novel because it's so like representative, like who you are. And I was like, yes, I totally agree. And she was like, okay, but here's the thing. If we want it to come out at like the timing that we want , um, it's gonna be a really tight turnaround time. And so basically it came down to that. Um , the first draft would have to be written in six weeks so that we could really start the process. Um, and that was the longest six weeks of my life
Speaker 2I could imagine.
Speaker 3Yeah. I'm a really hardcore outliner plotter. So , um , yes. So what I did was I did a really intense outline, which ended up being 62 pages long. Like I literally broke down beat for beat, like every chapter so that when it came to writing, I wouldn't have to think all I had to do was write it. Um, and like without that, I would not have been able to do it in six weeks, but so may got bumped back to June and then COVID happens and I got bumped back to September. So it was like all of this like bananas, fast writing I had or not . And I was just like , yeah,
Speaker 2I have to imagine that now that you've done it, you must be feeling like, okay, I've got this , I've got this under control.
Speaker 3Totally. I'm like, if I could do that, I can do anything in this. Nailed it .
Speaker 2Um, so I I'm curious. So the Peter pan book ,
Speaker 3What was the title ? Yeah . Lost in the never woods.
Speaker 2Never woods . And so now that's coming out. You said next spring.
Speaker 3Yeah. So March 23rd, 2021.
Speaker 2Um, so now do you feel like, okay, I've like covered for next year? Yeah .
Speaker 3Like wild thing, right? Is that this book has been sitting and ready for what feels like forever. And so , um , with everyone in my debut here , uh, while everyone was getting excited about their first book and editing their first book, that was editing my second book and now, yeah. So, and now all of my peers for the 2020 and debut, they're killing themselves over writing their second book, which is what I was going through. And everyone's like, this is the worst thing ever. I'm like, I know you were there going through it . So it does feel good that I'm like sat through 2021. Um , I've already drafted another book, which I did during quarantine because that's how I was handling my anxiety situation. And I was like, that's to not think about it, let's write a book. Right . Yeah. So it's been, yeah. So it's like, Oh, I get to sit back and relax . But also I don't because I have been doing so many interviews and like inner , uh , events and stuff like that. But I feel like I haven't rested in a vertical .
Speaker 2Yeah, no, I know launch launch weeks and months. I did, I was curious about soon reads , um , because I am also a Macmillan author, so I'm familiar with Swoon reads. Um, but, but only like on a surface level, like I know it's where like authors submit to a , an online form and then readers get to like,
Speaker 3Yeah. So , um, it's so funny. I, I see that we are on video and I can see that you're wearing a nano shirt. Um , I actually found out about spoon reads while I was doing nano and when I completed it , um, that was for those 50,000 words of that first book idea. And , um, so it was just kind of on a whim. I went to grad school and got my MFA in creative writing and lost was my , uh , my thesis. So I completed the first draft for my thesis. And then I kind of like dabbled in kind of editing a bit for a couple of years, but mostly I was focused on getting a job and getting money so I could pay back my student loans, I'm saying right. It's the worst God wants it, not me. Um, and then, so while I was like going through the resources on the NaNoWriMo website, I saw smooth reads and I was like, okay, that seems really cool. So like on a whim I submitted lost than ever woods . Um, I think I , my process with it was a little atypical because , um, it's seen as kind of like a social media platform in order for getting your book out there and published. Right. Um, you upload it and then people are able to read it and then like rate it on different things and leave comments for what they like. And , um, generally that can get enough traction that when the editors go and start reading through manuscripts, they're like, Oh, well, a lot of people like this book or a lot of people like that book, so it can help get their attention. Um, but for me, I threw it up and I was still so nervous and self conscious about my writing that I didn't post it anywhere.
Speaker 5I didn't put it on. I didn't ,
Speaker 3I didn't even have Twitter when I did it. I didn't post it on my Tumblr. I didn't even put it on like Facebook where at least my friends let's just kind of see what happens. I was really anxious about it. And then , um, and then one of the editors like came upon it, like I had some good feedback, definitely, but like , it was definitely did not have anywhere as many like reads or comments as a lot of other books did. So again, the social media part helps, but really it comes down to like the story and the writing and what the editors are drawn to. So , um , one of the editors , uh , saw my book, read it and sent it to my now editor, who is Holly. And she was like, you need to check out this book, you're going to like it. Um, and then , uh, then I got an email from Holly and she was like, Hey, do you have time to go on a call? And I was like, and it was her Morin who is the director of us. And they're like, you probably know why we've called you. And I was like, I really have no idea because in my head I was like, there's no way they're going , like buy my book . So what are they talking to me? They're like, yeah, we love your book. And I was like, totally knocked my socks off. So swim rates is really cool in that it's , it takes out, you don't have to have an agent and getting an agent can be, is not, can be, it is a very hard process. Um, and I find, especially for marginalized voices, there's so many barriers in place for us. And just kind of how like these larger publishing structures work. It can be harder to get those diverse voices to even get attention from a agent. So it kind of cuts out that middleman and it really becomes about the story that doesn't become about like your connections or if you're able to woo agent. Um, and so that was really cool and that benefited me cause I hadn't been able to like snag an agent at all. And I'm typically a really my favorite part about soon reads , which didn't happen with my bug . But , um, again, my book was a bit atypical , uh , but a really cool part is that for most of our books, you get to vote on the cover and you don't have to be registered. Yes, you don't have to be registered on Sweden at all. Like it's just , uh , they put up a blog post, they create like four ideas for a cover that will obviously be like, you know, refined and perfected if it's chosen. But , um, the public gets to vote on it and that's how covers are chosen. And it's one of the coolest things about spoon res . Um, so be able to do that and like , yeah, it's like crowdsource . It's super cool. I love the structure of Sydney . That's really, really neat and super exciting.
Speaker 2No , that is. And like you say, it's a great option for someone who's struggling to get an agent or maybe wants to get their book out there and start getting some reader feedback. Totally your proof . It can lead to a book deal, which is super cool. I love that journey. Um, and speaking of covers,
Speaker 3I know you said that your cover was not one that got to get voted on, which is bad, but I love the cover for cemetery boys. Oh, it is so good. It's the most perfect thing. Yeah. Yeah. So let me tell you the story about the cover, cause it's again, very tell me the story. So , um, so when it came time to be, to like start working on covers, most publishers there'll be like, Oh, give us some ideas of like, or like some of your favorite scenes or like tell us what your characters look like. So I like typed up this whole thing, talking about yeah . Ads and Juul and like my favorite scenes in the book that they could use that blah, blah, blah. Um, but to like backtrack a bit when I first started to outline cemetery boys , um, in order to kind of help motivate myself through these hectic six weeks, I knew I was going to be going through. I was like, I'm going to commission an artist to do character of my characters. Does that make me feel better? And I was like, and I'm on Tumblr . I followed this person, Mars boss who did fan art for my favorite fandoms being haiku and , um, Voltron legendary dependencies . Um, and so I was like, so I felt like really silly, cause I was just like message them. And I was like, hi, I'm like this, you know , writer, which who knows what that means. I was like, can you draw ? And they were like super guy and be like, yeah, sure. So I had commissioned them and um , they started making these character cards for me and I was like, Oh gosh, I love this so much. And then, so while I was going through the editing process , uh, once I had them all done, I sent them to my editorial team and I was like, Hey, I like having this artist who was, who did these really cool cards for me? And I , um, I liked them a lot and I am going to use them for my priority campaign , uh, which is indeed what I ended up sending out for my period of campaign for cemetery. And they're like, Oh, that's really cool. And we like that a lot. And I was like, yeah, like this is their name. Here's their Twitter, here's our website. So fast forward several months. And it's time to , uh, they let me like look at a bunch of, of cover artists or artists in general and be like, is there someone who you're most drawn to? Who would you like to do your cover? Which first it was like the coolest I was like, exactly. Right. I was like, from everything that I've heard, no author gets to do anything about you just get it and you deal with that . So the fact that they're like, here's a PDF with a bunch of different artists, like why don't you look through and tell us who you'd like to work with? And I was like, Oh, this is the coolest thing ever. So I opened it and McMillan has been absolutely incredible when it comes to bringing in folks of the community of cemetery boys in to work on this project. I'm like my audio book, narrator, Avi , rookie , they are a they're trans and they are Latinex. And that was the coolest thing to have them here in my book. Um , so these artists, all of them were artists of color and or trans or non-binary. And that was so flipping cool. I was so excited. So I'm going through this list and I'm scrolling down and scrolling down and the last one was this picture. And I was like, that's all I got from , uh, from haiku. And I was like, wait, that's Mars and Mars, his name was right next to it. And I lost my mind. I was like, Oh my gosh, I immediately emailed them. I was like, please get Mars, please get Mars. Um , so they reach out to Mars and Mars was like, heck yes. So it's so cool because suddenly I had this artist who knew these characters longer than my editorial team did . Like they had been drawing them for long before this cover is happening. So when they did the cover, they're literally perfect. That's exactly how I envisioned them. That's exactly how I envisioned lady death to look . And it was exactly what was in my head because I'd been working with Mars on this character . It was so cool. It was the coolest thing. So I am so deeply, deeply attached to Mars and it's the coolest thing ever. That's awesome. Nicely done Macmillan . Totally. Alright . We're going to wrap this up with our happy writer lightning round. Okay. What book makes you happy song of Achilles by Madeline Miller, which is kind of counterintuitive, but
Speaker 6What do you mean
Speaker 3You do to celebrate an accomplishment? It used to be going to see a movie. So now, yeah, so now it's been baking cake. My favorite cake is yellow cake from the box with chocolate trusting. How do you feel the creative? Well, I usually consume other forms of media, which I know a lot of authors that like , I could never read another book while I was writing a book. Cause it would like influence my voice. And I'm like, not really. Um, I love books and movies and TV shows because something super random and unrelated to what my plot is, can spark an idea. And then suddenly I have a whole plot . So consuming other media is how I like getting my inspiration. What advice would you give to help someone become happier writer? Oh gosh. Um, take pressure off yourself. I know people can get stuck writing a book and they like are just dragging themselves through the process, especially for that first draft. And I think that if you sat with a book for like too long and you're really just kind of killing yourself or we're trying to get it done, it's okay to step back, put it away, have fun with something else for a little while. And then you never know what's going to spark that really intense passion again. And then go back to that book that you were working on. Like take a step back. It's okay. Don't have to force yourself to finish the project .
Speaker 2I think that is excellent advice. That's advice that I sometimes need to remind myself.
Speaker 3Yeah, same
Speaker 2Lastly. Where can people find you?
Speaker 3So I am on Twitter and Instagram. My handle is eight inch maiden. Just by the way,
Speaker 2This time I saw that,
Speaker 3Oh gosh. Okay. The first time I was ever on a panel, they were like, we did like our play panel at the end. They're like, why don't you tell us like, like your handle on Twitter? And like everyone went down the line and it was like first and last name, last name, first initial. And it got to me and I was like , uh , it's Aiden . Like I wasn't aware that I had to have like Twitter handle. I didn't think anyone like looked at it, but yeah. So a lot of folks refer to me as a binge maiden and I heard that there was a panel recently where someone, the moderator mentioned me and they're like mad about it's great.
Speaker 2Well it's so memorable. No , usually like on a panel, people go down the line and no one's going to or what their handles were, but Aiden .
Speaker 3Yeah. So yes . So Twitter and Instagram and I also have a website that has a bunch of updates and like , um , the website is Aiden dash Thomas. And for cemetery boys, I have a whole section of Mars, Lauder , BAAs , uh, cemetery, boys , art that I've commissioned them throughout the last like year. So there's a bunch of it. So if you want to check that out, it is all on my website and the convenient location.
Speaker 2Very cool. Aiden , thank you so much for joining me today
Speaker 3Was so much fun. This is seriously a blast. Thank you
Speaker 2Really, really awesome to talk to you. Readers, definitely check out cemetery boys, which is out now. Of course, we always encourage you to support your local indie bookstore if you can. But if you don't have a local indie , you can also check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marissa Meyer. If you're enjoying these conversations, we would love it. If you subscribed and helped us spread the word to other readers and writers, you can find us on Instagram, boringly at amorous , a Meyer author and happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy and cozy and your bunkers and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling okay .
Speaker 1[inaudible] .