Marissa chats with Julie C. Dao about her newest YA fantasy - BROKEN WISH, Book One of The Mirror series - as well as the unique way that this series has been developed; finding one's way back to writing - and the happiness it can bring - after taking time away from it; using Wattpad to share unpublished works and reach young readers; and some different ways that authors are channeling their creativity (or taking time off) in the time of COVID.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa chats with Julie C. Dao about her newest YA fantasy - BROKEN WISH, Book One of The Mirror series - as well as the unique way that this series has been developed; finding one's way back to writing - and the happiness it can bring - after taking time away from it; using Wattpad to share unpublished works and reach young readers; and some different ways that authors are channeling their creativity (or taking time off) in the time of COVID.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books to enjoy and help authors find more joy in their writing. I'm your host, Marissa Meyer. Thanks so much for joining me. One thing that has been making me happy lately is the national geographic E newsletter. I subscribed to it earlier this year. It's been maybe three or four months, and I have just been blown away by how incredible this newsletter is. That drops into my inbox every morning. And it is just filled with the most fascinating articles about everything from wildlife and like really bizarre science and space travel. Uh, and then into things like history and ancient civilizations and cool world cultures and relics. And I just like nerd out every single morning and I'm constantly turning to my husband and being like, did you know this cool thing? Uh, so it's really been so much fun, very inspirational for me on the creative front. And also just helping me feel like I'm still learning things as I progress through life. So I love it. I highly highly recommend checking it out. And of course I am so happy to be talking to today's guest. She's the author of the Y a fantasy novels forest of a thousand lanterns kingdom of the blazing Phoenix and song of the Crimson flower. Her newest fantasy broken wish just came out on October 6th, please. Welcome Julie CEDAW. Hi everyone. Hi Marissa. I'm so happy to be here. Hi Julie. I am so happy to have you here. How is life in your bunker life is going well, I just had my virtual book tour for broken wish last week. So it's been a lot of fun chatting with people, even though it's not in person. It's still exciting. It is, it is different. I get that. I mean, so we're, we're recording this pretty much at the tail end of your launch week. Um, so congratulations for starters on launching your fourth book. Um, thank you so much. How has promoting it in the era of COVID been, been different than worse than better? How's it been going? Um, well, it's, it's quite different. Different would be the word I would use because in a non COVID lifetime, I would be traveling. I would be seeing friends. I'd be seeing readers. I would be visiting all of these bookstores, but since the pandemic, we've all had to promote our books on social media. So it's a lot of tweeting and posting on Instagram, just trying to get people to learn about your book. And sometimes it does feel like you're sending info out into the void because you know, it doesn't feel real. I have another book out because I haven't done all of the things I did for my previous three books. So it's been different. It's not bad or good. It's just not what I'm used to. Yeah, no, that's an interesting perspective. Um, you know, my, my book launches coming up here in a few weeks and I agree there is this kind of strange disconnect when you're not actually like out in the world or going to bookstores to sign stock and doing these things that you normally do. It just, it feels, yeah. Yeah, it's definitely, it's definitely not what we're used to, but this is how we adapt, you know, and I'm so glad for an internet connection and just being able to socialize, you know, this is how we socialize now. So it is what it is for sure. And social media, like of course there are, there are things that come with social media that I don't love, but by and large, I'm so grateful that we have it in this time because otherwise, what would we be doing with? So my router died about three weeks ago. It just completely went out and I was without internet for about maybe three hours. I had to go out. I went out to best buy. I did the curbside pickup, so totally safe. And I got a new router immediately because just those three hours about internet Marissa, I felt like I was on a deserted Island without, well, I was Tom Hanks. I was sending some Castaway without Wilson. How did you ever survive? I know, I know three hours and then we're back on. Oh, that's so funny. That would be, I mean, that's what would be fascinating, like social tests to see how long people can go out and I must sort of best buy. I can't so broken wish came out last week. Why don't we start with you telling listeners what is broken wish about? Sure. Um, well broken wish is the first book in a four book series. All of the books in the series will be written by different authors. So broken wishes, kicking off this fairy tale about a family who has been cursed and each of the subsequent books will be dealing with how this curse has evolved and how it affects future generations and descendants. So in my book, broken wish 16 year old Elva has discovered that she has these strange forbidden powers and her powers involve every time she looks into a mirror or reflective surface, like a puddle, she sees images of the future and everything that she sees always comes to pass. So when she glimpses this terrible tragedy, that's coming to devastate her family and everything they worked for. She decides that it's time to go into the North woods where the infamous, which is reputed to live and try to see if this woman can help her prevent this tragedy that's coming for her family. So I first heard about this series, the mirror series. I'm like, I think it was in the publisher's weekly deal section, um, right when it sold and it was announced, and I was so smitten. And so blown away with this concept where, you know, four books, one continuous story, but each one kind of, you know, following this family through the generations and each of them written by a different author. I think that is such a cool idea. It's it's definitely an interesting concept for sure. Yeah. So I'm my first, first I want to know, like, where did the concept come from? Did Disney approach you, how involved were you in, in deciding what the story was going to be like, talk to me kind of through the process of how this came about. Yeah. It was kind of a nontraditional process because I had published three books by that time. Um, original stories just on my own, going through my agent, but this was back in 2018. So I actually had to keep this a secret for two years. We didn't announce this. Yeah. I know that publisher's weekly announcement you're talking about. I believe it came out in March of this year. So March, 2020. So I've known about this idea since probably may of 2018, when Disney contacted my agent, they said, listen, we know Julie has written fairytale retellings before, and we've got this idea for a brand new series, like a total, you know, bare bones concept. We would love to work with her on it. And they were explaining how there were four different books for different authors. And immediately I said, who are the other authors? Who am I, who am I working with? And they didn't know because no one had signed on officially. So, you know, all I got were very, very bare Synopsys for all four books. And it was the first one that I really connected to because of my fairytale roots, my debut force of a thousand lanterns as a retelling of snow white. And going back to fairytales felt like going back to the stories that had made me the writer that I am. So of course, you know, and this is Disney asking me and I grew up in the nineties, I'm a total Disney kid. Um, and I was just so excited to be asked. So, you know, they, they had me write the first, maybe 20 to 30 pages of this bear concept that they had. They were like, here's the, here's the base idea, like just run with it. And I did. And luckily they loved the idea and then me and my editor just developed the idea together and figured out what was going to happen step by step by step. So that was the process. And at what point then did they bring on these cause they're fabulous authors that they have in the series? It was you of course, Danielle Clayton, JC Serantes and L L McKinney, uh, a fantastic lineup. So at what point then did they bring in these other three authors? And were you kind of already into the writing process by the point that they had all four of you on board? I was already into the writing process when they decided to tell me that Danielle Clayton was writing book two and I was so excited because I love Danielle's books. And I had read the synopsis for book two, like just the plain bare synopsis they had had. And it was set in sumptuous, roaring twenties, new Orleans. And I could not think of anyone better to write that book then Danielle. So I got really excited. Yeah. I got so excited and I asked her, do you know who the other two authors are? And she said, I have no idea. I have a feeling that one of the other two will also be a Disney author because Danielle's a Disney author. So later on we found out that JC Serantes Jen had signed on. So we were like, aha, that's our Disney author. And then I think I was almost into copy edits when I learned that LL McKinney had taken the fourth slot. So it was a very gradual unfolding, much like much like the series itself, but it was, it was a lot of fun just discovering their identities. I bet it's kind of like gathering clues and piecing together.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Um, no, I love that. And I think it's so interesting how it all kind of came together. So when you were writing then the first book and you know, this is the first in this series, it kind of, it sets up this curse that is now going to follow this family over the rest of the series. Like how much pressure did you feel to like one make it a really great curse Stay and, um, these generations of, of troubles, um, but also to like make sure you were giving enough for the other authors to go on, like where you were, you discussing the plot with the authors as you were developing this at all. So it was a ton of pressure, especially after I learned who the other authors were. Like, I knew that I'd be kicking this series off in front of giant, New York times bestselling authors like Danielle Clayton and JC Savantas and amazing LL McKinney. And I just freaked out. I definitely freaked out about writing a story. Good enough that would match the subsequent novels because I knew that the quality of their books would be great. So my editor and I flushed out this book, maybe one or two drafts, I believe it wasn't until the third draft that I recruited the other authors. Like I sent my manuscript out to them, very timidly and terrified because I was like, please, please say that it's good and it's not terrible. Please say it's worthy of you. Um, because I didn't want to give them something that would change drastically. You know, I wanted it to be as close to the final product as possible so that they could see what I've set up and whether these elements would be good enough to carry through their books. And luckily they liked the world building. They liked the magic system. We had this disgustingly long text chain that we still are texting from. It's called the mirror ladies. And it's just us like taking turns freaking out. There was me freaking out like, Oh no, I've done such a bad job in the magic system. And then there was Danielle when she started writing her book texts from her at 2:00 AM saying, I broken the family tree. I don't know what to do. It was very much a collaborative process, which is nice because I've never coauthored anything before. And technically I'm not co-authoring now because we each have our own individual book. But the fact that we're all four pieces of a whole four parts of an entire series, you know, that gave me the feeling that there was someone on my team. There were people who were pushing for me to do well and to do the best job I could on this book so that their books would make sense and all fit together. No, absolutely. I mean, it definitely, you have to have that consistency and that Vic, their feedback would be really integral. Absolutely. Yeah. I needed to make sure that what I was doing was what would at least fit with what they had envisioned in their books, because not to spoil too much, but there are magical relics that get passed down through the generations. Um, you might even see some familiar faces. So all of these pieces have to join into the puzzle as, as a whole, the big picture. I love magical relics, just like that's one of my, my, my code words. Someone says mad to go Relic and me too, especially anything to do with fairytales because fairytale tropes have so many different items like seven league boots or red dancing shoes or magic mirrors or wishing Wells. So you'll see a bunch of those in the series for sure. Good. Well, I, that actually brings me to a, a couple other questions. Um, one, so you mentioned that we, you hint that we might be seeing some familiar faces in the future books and, and I was hoping for that very much so because, um, there's, there's a few question marks left at the end of a broken wish. And, and of course, like with any book, you come to love the characters and, you know, you, you develop these attachments to them. Um, and so I was hoping slash assuming that this is not the end of, of all worries. Um, but now for you having created these characters, is there any part of you that feels kind of protective about them? Like, are you concerned about what the next writers are going to be doing with them? I'm not concerned because I know that they have the talent and the skill to do an amazing job picking up where I left off. But I am a little bit sad leaving this world. I'm sad about leaving these characters. There's always a sense of feeling like you're going to miss them when you close the door, it's like a chapter ending in your life. You know, even though this was just one standalone book, um, it does feel like you're saying goodbye. So that part I'm sad about, but I am completely confident in the other authors abilities to knock the series out of the park. And I can't wait to see what they do with it. Yeah, no, I am too. I'm really, really curious to see. And I did not know that the next book was going to be set in the roaring twenties. Aha. Holy cow. I am so excited for that one. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. So Elvis descendants are headed to the new world. They're going to new Orleans. So Daniela is going to have a lot of fun with the parties and the jazz age there. It's so good. You're going to love it. It's such a perfect setting. Perfect. So also, so when you first sent this draft to the other three authors, uh, how much feedback were they giving you? Like, were they coming back and saying, Oh, but I have this idea and it's in conflict with this thing that you've done. I really need to change it. Or were they more like, okay, you've done that now. I'll take it and run with it. It was the latter. Yeah. They were extremely generous there. They trusted me to, to do the best job that I could with this first book. So it wasn't a matter of taking things out or changing anything. It was a matter of adding things in Danielle had this idea for her character to have this journal from one of her ancestors. So, you know, in response to that, I created this diary that one of my characters had been keeping. Um, so it was just like little things like that little, little additions here and there, but otherwise they were just like, okay, great. So you've laid down the foundation, these are the pieces that I'm going to work with and change. So I'm going to go with it. Yeah. Oh, that's so cool. What a completely unique idea for a series. I just hammered with this concept. Me too. Me too. I've never really heard of a series where all of the books are written by completely different authors, but they're all connected because it's all the same family. Yeah, no, exactly. I mean, I, I know that there's occasionally series that, you know, have different authors writing, but every one is more of a standalone, um, to be like really intertwined like this. I just, I just think it's so cool. Such a neat idea. Um, so you, you mentioned how you and your editor worked kind of hammer out the plot, um, that from this very minimal, uh, idea that Disney started with, um, are you usually, uh, an outline writer, a planner? Yes. Yes. I am a hardcore plotter. I have to at least put down maybe three sentences of what I think each chapter will be before I can start writing because I just need that, that little roadmap to go. Otherwise I feel really anxious. Yeah. No, I'm the same way. I'm I am also kind of, that sounds very similar to your Potter to 100% nice. Yes. Um, are you doing nano this year? No, I'm not. I'm not doing nano, but I'm going to have such FOMO doing, uh, you know, not doing it. Are you, are you doing nano? Yes, I am. I am so exciting. I haven't like put that out there yet, but I guess I will have, by the time this is know what it means. One of my beta readers, we're kind of humming and hawing and we both had ideas that, you know, we want to do, but you know, you also have other projects and deadlines and we were finally just like, we're doing it 20, 20 what's what's planning. I'm so happy for you. So exciting is a completely brand new idea that you no brand new and I need to get busy on outlining it. Cause I really don't have much yet. I have what, like three weeks still to get my outline. All you've got time. You've got time, girl, you can do it. I can't thank you for that pep talk. I do. Of course, you know, when you're at the start of a new project and everything is so much potential and you can't wait to get started, if only it always felt like, I know you're making me want to do it too, but I've got deadlines. I've got other stuff going on. So maybe another time. Yeah, no, it's been awhile since I've done it. I used to try to do it every year, but now with the publication schedule, it doesn't usually work out. Um, so I'm kind of going rebel a little bit this year. Good for you. Good for you. Thank you. Okay. Back to you and your box. Um, so you talked about magical relics and how fairytales are just so rich with them. And, uh, I loved in this book, how many wonderful little Easter eggs there were for the fairy tale fans out there? I was, I felt like I was on a little hunt trying to spy all of them. And some of them are more obvious, you know, with the red slippers or the clap often. Um, but you also sneak in some really subtle ones and I have a feeling I even didn't get all of them. Um, but I just really loved seeing that totally with speaking out about, Oh, yay. I'm so glad you said that because I am such a fairytale geek. I love everything to do with fairytales. And the setting of this book is Honeywell, Germany, which is a real place. It's the birthplace of the brothers Grimm, the OGs of Western world fairytales. Um, yeah, yeah. It's set in their brain. They were born in there with missing. Yep. There's actually a tiny, tiny reference to them being in the town pub, collecting stories for their volume of children's tales. I wanted to that in there. Yeah. It was really fun. I just love, I love fairytales and I love the fairytale construct so much. So it was really fun. Me too. And I mean, this book, you can tell that you are a fan of fairytales and the genre because it very much reads like you have crafted a traditional fairytale, like it hits so many of those, those wonderful notes, um, that we get in the Grimms fairytales and the stories. Um, so, so it came across very much that you yourself are a fan. Um, thank you. So like where, where did your love of fairytales come from? I don't exactly know. All I know is that I gravitated toward them. As soon as I learned how to read, I was the kind of kid my parents never had to sit me down and make me read a book. I would just do it on my own. I would actually read too much when I was supposed to be doing other homework. Um, I just loved the idea of being able to open any book and walk into this completely different world. And there was something about fairytales that really resonated with me. I was also a Disney kid, as I said before. I grew up during the golden age of Disney in the nineties when all of the original animated films were coming out and I just loved, loved, loved the stories of, you know, princesses yearning for something more princes fighting dragons, um, evil Queens holing up in their castles, like was just something that really called to me, um, at that young of an age. And, you know, it was just a natural progression from there to become a writer, which I, you know, I wrote my first book when I was nine years old. I use book very loosely because it was a spiral bound notebook with very badly pencil drawings that came along with my writing, with the story about my sleepover with my friends. And, you know, it was just very natural for me from there to branch off from fairytales, into writing them myself. Um, and so, you know, it just started my lifelong passion, my lifelong pursuit that I'm so lucky that I get to pursue as an adult. No kidding. I am also a child of the nineties. I think we're close to the same age. So I was okay. I was born in 85, 84. Oh, there you go. I mean, I definitely trace a lot of my love back to some of the classic Disney's as well. Do you have a favorite Disney movie? When I just remember that whenever I was sick and I had to stay home from school, I had the flu or whatever. I would watch beauty and the beast nonstop from like the moment I woke up until my parents came home from work that night, I would just watch beauty and the beast on. Repeat what about you? That is so funny. Love it. That's a good, they're all so good though, from that era. They're good. What about you? What's your favorite little mermaid was the, well of course, yeah. Yep, yep. Yeah. Deep deep. So good. So good. A little bit older. I went through a really intense phase of loving Hercules and I feel like that is an under appreciated Disney movie. It is. It really is people don't talk about it that much. And I wonder why. Yeah. Yeah. I really like it.
Speaker 4:I do too.
Speaker 2:Um, so kind of on the side, same line of fairy tale, retellings and, and writing fairytales. Um, I noticed on your website that you also have a Cinderella inspired middle grade, um, pumpkin patch princess, which is such a, um, it is not in book form. It is only available on what pad, which fascinating. Tell me about that pumpkin patch princess. Um, it was one of the first books that I wrote as an adult trying to get published. So I told you about writing throughout my childhood, but when I was in high school and college, I kind of put writing aside because my parents didn't approve of that as a potential career path. So I, I kind of turned my back on it until I was in my early twenties. And I realized that I was extremely unhappy. I was, I had gotten a biology degree from college because my parents wanted me to go to medical school. So in order to stall medical school, as long as possible, because I don't like blood, I would make a terrible doctor. I don't understand. I'm just picturing me in the operating room and the nurse going, doctor dad was on the floor again. Um, so I, in order to solve medical school, I was working in a neuroscience lab just to make sure my biology degree counted. So this was in my early twenties. I realized I wasn't happy. And the last time I was happy was when I was writing stories. And, you know, I decided to turn back to it during the nights and weekends, when I wasn't working my day job and pumpkin patch princess was one of the first stories that popped up. Because again, it's going back to my roots. My fairytale love had rekindled itself, even in my early twenties. And I got this idea about a teenage fairy godmother who is doing this internship, learning how to handle her Royal clients. And she accidentally falls in love with one of her clients princes. So it's, Cinderella's Prince that she falls in love with. And I decided, you know, why don't I Polish this up, get some critique partners, because I had just learned what a critique partner was. I was like teaching myself the whole publishing industry, um, and you know, I Polish it up and then I sent it out to all these agents. I got rejection after rejection after rejection, because I think the fairytale market was extremely saturated at that time. I mean, it's always saturated, but for that particular era, I think that the middle grade market just too full of fairytales, like mine and mine just couldn't stand out enough. And it also fell into this weird zone, um, between middle grade and young adult, you know, there's that weird zone between young adult and adult called new adults and it never took off. So there's like a similar buffer zone between middle grade and young adult where tweens are too old for the themes of middle grade, but they might be a little bit too young for like the darker sexier elements of older Yia. So PPP, pumpkin patch princess fell right into that zone. And I just don't think that agents knew what to do with it. Nobody knew how to position it. So, you know, fast forward to 2015, I finally got an agent for a different book and she and I were talking about pumpkin patch princess. And we decided, you know, why not put it online? Because it's just kind of hanging out there in my hard drive. I didn't want to self publish at this point because I want it to get traditionally published first. So we decided, you know, why not just put it up on this website, what pad, which is where people go to read for free. There's a lot of tweens who hang out there. So that's my demographic. And, you know, within five years of putting it there, it just became one of the featured stories on the site. There's this cult following for it. And yeah, it's still there to this day, like people really connected to it. So I'm so, so grateful. What a great story do you, yeah. How much has that story being on what pad being fairly successful on what pad, like do you think that it is then drawing a lot of readers over to your published books? I would hope so. I definitely hope so. I know there's some crossover between the people who love PPP and the people who are interested that I have a Disney books now. So there's, there's some layover there. Um, and I'm hoping that the opposite will also be true. I'm hoping that people who discover my published works will say, Oh, Hey, she has this story. Most of it is for free on Wattpad because it recently got chosen for the paid program. So I think the first 10 chapters or so are free and then you have to pay to read the rest. But I'm hoping that there's crossover between my audiences. Yeah, I would, I would think that there has to be, it seems like it could be a brilliant marketing strategy, honestly. Yeah. I know a lot of great authors there. Um, who, who do that? They release little snippets of their books or, you know, little teaser novellas. I know Susan Dinnard in particular has a bunch of stories there and they're quite successful. So it's, it's kind of an interesting way to get your name out there more. Yeah, yeah. No, it really is. It's very clever. I like it. And just going back to what you said before about like how you, you were in this job and going through this school and realized that you weren't happy and then, you know, realize that the last time you were happy was when you were creating stories. I love hearing that I'm so happy for you that you found your way back to thank you. Thank you. I'm really happy to, I just felt like I had been holding my breath and I could finally take in this oxygen again, you know, like I felt like I was going back to my true self and I've never turned back since this is what I want to do. Yeah, no, definitely. I know. I mean, I've never really taken a break from writing. I'm always kind of been something that I've done, but I do know when I go through periods where I'm uninspired and I'm not creating, I will hit a wall where I'm just crabby. Yeah. Yeah. I know exactly what you mean, whereas on a person. Um, okay, so the broken wish is now out in the world, you're passing the Baton on to these next authors, uh, what is next for you? So I've got a lot of projects that I've been, I've just been churning them out. Marissa. I feel like during the pandemic, I'm like, okay, I know that self care is important. I know the world is a hot mess right now. Um, so I turned to writing as my escape. You know, a lot of people can't write during this time. That is totally legitimate. They should rest. They should take care of themselves. But for me, I feel like I helped curb my anxiety by writing as much as I possibly could. So I've got like three new projects that I'm trying out. Um, I'm trying out different age categories, different genres. So I'm hoping that I'll, I'll get to sell one of them. That would be really nice fingers crossed fingers crossed. Oh, thank you. Yeah, no, that's funny that you say that I hadn't really heard anyone else talk about it, but I, to feel like something about this time has made me want to explore other genres that are age. Yeah. Other types of writing. I wonder if that is where that, where is that coming from? I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm not sure, but I see a lot of threads saying, you know, don't feel guilty if you can't work, don't feel guilty about, and that's totally, that's totally legitimate. I totally agree with that. But I just feel like I was able to maintain some of my sanity and some of my, you know, curb, some of that worry and doom scrolling by just exploring these completely different genres. Because I feel like maybe trying something new is such a big challenge that it occupies more of your brain space. And then that way you don't have to worry about what's going on out there. You know, maybe that's the case for you as well. That's an interesting theory. Yeah. Because I do feel like it's been extremely hard to work on the thing that I'm actually supposed to be working.
Speaker 4:No,
Speaker 2:That box, you know, has it been kind of given some of that, that mental relief for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, good. Well, I can't wait to hear what a, what ends up coming to the surface next for you? Thank you. I'll get to announce something soon. Yeah, me too. Me too. Fingers crossed. Let me know how it goes. Thank you. I will. Okay. We're gonna wrap this up with our happy writer lightening round. Okay. I'm ready. Okay. First, what book makes you happy? Um, Oh, I love Jane Austin so much. I always go to her every year. So Jane Austin. Yep. She's one of mine too. Oh, good. If you stumbled onto a real wishing, well, what would you wish for? Um, I guess I would just wish that my family would be happy and healthy. Boring, but solid. Yeah. You can't can't argue with that one. Right? What do you do to celebrate an accomplishment? Oh, I always celebrate with food sometimes for somehow every single occasion turns into food. So cake is always a good reward. How do you feel the creative? Well, by watching TV, by watching all these great shows that are out now, what advice would you give to help someone become a happier writer? I would say to, uh, unplug from the internet. Cause I think sometimes, you know, isolation from that helps even though you only made three hours. I know I'm such a hypocrite that sometimes I like, you know, I can still connect to the internet and watch TV and stuff, but I go off Twitter and Instagram for days. So I'm not so much of a hypocrite as I sound like. I promise not bad advice. Like I give you that. Lastly, where can people find you? I have a website@juliedow.com and I'm also on Twitter as jewels underscore writes and on Instagram at Julie CEDAW. Awesome. Julie, thank you so much for joining me today was such a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me Marissa. So nice chatting with you readers. Be sure to check out the mirror book one broken wish, which is out now. Of course, we always encourage you to support your local independent bookstore if you can. But if you don't have a local indie, you can also check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marissa Meyer. If you're enjoying these conversations, we would love it. If you subscribe and please help us by spreading the word to other readers and writers, you can find us on Instagram at Marissa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy and cozy and your bunkers and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling a little bit
Speaker 1:[inaudible].