Marissa chats with Lori Goldstein about her newest YA contemporary - SOURCES SAY - as well as facing a tough deadline in order to tie a book's release to specific world events (such as an election-themed book publishing in the midst of election season!); choosing which perspectives to include in a narrative, and how opposing POVs can help drive character arcs; and how writing across various genres and age groups can be a practical career move that also helps keep us inspired.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa chats with Lori Goldstein about her newest YA contemporary - SOURCES SAY - as well as facing a tough deadline in order to tie a book's release to specific world events (such as an election-themed book publishing in the midst of election season!); choosing which perspectives to include in a narrative, and how opposing POVs can help drive character arcs; and how writing across various genres and age groups can be a practical career move that also helps keep us inspired.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books, to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I'm your host, Marissa Meyer. Thanks so much for joining me. One thing that has been making me happy this week, as many of you know, we are homeschooling our two kindergartners this year as so many parents are. And as of this week, the girls read their first little story and like actually read the words. It didn't have to sit and sound out every single letter. And I don't know, it felt a little bit like watching magic happen. I'm so excited and so proud and just cannot wait until they are little readers. And we can all sit around as a family reading stories. It is one of my huge parenting dreams, and I feel like we are on the path to that. So I'm so excited. It's such a cool thing to watch them learn. And of course I am so happy to be talking to today's guest. She's the author of the becoming gin duology and screen Queens. Her newest WIA, contemporary sources say came out this September, please. Welcome Lori Goldstein. I'm Marissa. Thank you for having me. My pleasure. Thanks so much for being here. How are you? How's life in your bunker? Um, it's good. You know, I really can't complain. Um, it's been, uh, it's been a long time, but it actually also doesn't feel that long, which I guess is a good thing. Uh, you know, when everybody's healthy and working, so, you know, that's all we can ask for right now, so I'm good. Yeah, no, that's, it is funny. I remember when, you know, COVID first hit back in March and we're all like, well, how long is this going to last? And I was thinking, you know, I had travel plans in book tour coming up way later in the fall. And well, clearly this will all be all by then. And now how naive that seems deeply, I feel this, this whole year has just been a blur. Yeah, it really has. But you always in the same situation as you were supposed to go on a vacation to London in April and you know, everything started happening and we quickly realized that it was, there was no way we were going to London in April, but we said, Oh, you know, I wonder when we should, you know, when the, uh, hotel and airlines will give us credit for, you know, we could probably rebook for this fall, like September or October. And you know, of course that, that, that did not happen. And we realized that. And we're hoping for maybe next September, October next year. Yeah, no kidding. One of my good friends lives in Australia and she just emailed me this morning, uh, and said that she has set a date for her wedding. Um, which of course, I've been hoping that I could attend her wedding and it's not for next September. And so I, my fingers are crossed, like, let me go to Australia next September, but we will see
Speaker 3:Why I hope you get there. I hope you
Speaker 2:Get there. I know, I know. I hope the world is doing a lot better a year from now. Yes. Time will tell. Um, okay. Why don't we start with you telling listeners what is sources say about,
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, so sources say, um, is kind of a mix of politics and journalism looking at how we consume information. Uh, and, and it does that by telling the story of feuding Xs who are running for student council, president, and the rival newspapers in the school that are covering the campaigns. And both things are kind of thrown a little twist when this, uh, sexist scandal takes over the school. Um, and it takes over the newspapers and it takes over the campaigns. Um, but it's specifically about, you know, as much as it's about kind of grand ideas, um, it's about two sisters and it's a sister story. So we have the sister of cat who's one point of view. Who's an old school journalist and her sister Angelina, who is a, a burgeoning YouTube star. And, you know, on the surface, it's the clashing of these two very different mediums that divides these two sisters who, you know, come at this thinking they've nothing in common. Um, but as Angelina kind of has to battle her recent ex Leo in this race for class president, um, her sister cat starts, uh, having to contend with this rival newspaper, a very onion like digital newspaper that pops up spreading work fiction that, that spread fiction about Angelina. Um, and then when the sexist scandal happens, um, which is someone taking pictures of girls in the school, real pictures and taking their body parts and Photoshopping them to create quote unquote, their perfect 10 girl, uh, and these get plastered throughout the school and it becomes a center piece of the election campaigns, and it gives cat and both of these newspapers, um, something to cover and Kat, Angela, and get involved in trying to uncover who's behind this kind of scandal. Um, and, and what can they do about it to combat what they believe is a school administration that is not handling the, uh, issue and the harassment, uh, in the way that it should be.
Speaker 2:Okay, so we've got election, we've got sexism, we've got like so much, so many big topics in this book. It is absolutely full of them. Um, but I do like that. You say that at its heart, it is a, a sister story, um, and watching the two sisters really grow together, um, which I loved seeing having two girls, I, I haven't thought spot in my heart for sister stories anymore. Um, before we dig into kind of some of the big things we were talking a little bit before we started the recording, and I think readers will get a kick out of, so if you've seen the cover of this book, it has these two megaphones kind of yelling at each other. And one of my girls came in right before, as I was getting set up for this interview. And she saw the book cover and asked mommy, is this book about blow dryers? I thought was just absolutely hysterical.
Speaker 3:Yes, it really is. And I have not heard that yet, but when you told me that, the first thing I thought of was back to conversations I had with my editor about the cover, um, screen Queens, uh, for those who haven't seen, it is a, an orangy pinkish, uh, background with, uh, an illustration of the three points of view, the three girls who are in the book. Um, and I loved it. I loved the illustrator. I thought she just did a fantastic job, really brought the characters to life. And I think it's always so amazing when you have an illustrator who can read the book and, and see the snippets that you put in, of what a character looks like and the things they like and gravitate towards, and then is able to, you know, to, to draw something that really represents those characters. And, and, uh, I think that's, that's so amazing and I love illustrated covers, but as we've kind of gotten to this one, there is so much happening. It is a full book. Um, and we, we wanted to figure out a more kind of graphic, bold image that would represent what the book was about, but that's difficult because it is a layered book. Um, and then we came up with the idea of the, the megaphones. I think, I, I think it was, my editor came up with it. And in the back of my head, I kept thinking, do teens know what a megaphone is? If they seen one, are they still in use, you know, every, so often it comes out on a TV show or a movie maybe, but, um, is that what people are gonna think of? Uh, and I think maybe your daughter answers that question. They think of blow dryers.
Speaker 2:No, it's a good question. And it's interesting, cause I know there's a theme in the book, which the principal of the school is using a megaphone to try to talk to the students, even while you have the students like using apps on their phone that converts their phones into microphones, like, like the battle of the ages and technology.
Speaker 3:Exactly. Yeah. And I will say for those wondering that is there are apps that actually can do that. I want to do,
Speaker 2:Did that exist before I put it in there? I did not know. And I love that. How happy that would be. I know. Yeah. Megaphone
Speaker 3:In your pocket all the time.
Speaker 2:I have things to say. Where's my Superblocks. Okay. So you have written a book about an election and about, uh, this, these like competing news sources, one more journalistic and one more quote, unquote, fake Z, uh, and you have published it now in fall of 2020 in the midst of this, you know, of course, very tumultuous election year. At what point did you get the idea for this book? Like where did the idea for it come from? And at what point did you know that you were going to be timing it so perfectly to coincide with everything that's going on right now?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, you know, it was, it was perfectly purposeful. It was planned. Um, I did know that this book would release in 2020. Uh, originally it was going to be a summer 2020 screen Queens came out in June, 2019. So a follow-up would have been the summer of 2020. Um, and I had in the back of my head for a while, the idea of trying to do something journals and based, uh, I have a journalism background. Uh, I have a degree in journalism and, uh, working on my, uh, high school and especially my college newspaper was so formative for me and such a great experience and so much fun. And I kept wanting to figure out a story, uh, that, that the journalism or the newsroom would be the backdrop. Um, and nothing really came to be until, uh, I was with my, uh, nephews, my teen nephews at that time, probably I guess, 15 and 12. Um, and we were just kinda talking and we're talking about aspects of social media and how much they relied on, especially places like Reddit, not even necessarily Twitter or other places, but especially Reddit for getting their news. Um, and being a journalist, uh, their uncle's a journalist, their mother was a journalist. We all have this collective background. Um, we were all kind of fascinated by this and we kind of had like a somewhat heated discussion about, about it and about the pros and cons. And then it felt deeper into, you know, where, where do people get their news? How do we consume that news? What is a trusted source? How do you figure out what a trusted source in is? And as we were talking, um, you know, I realized that, you know, many adults don't understand that let alone teens and they don't, uh, they never are given the tools to really understand all these things that are being thrown at them. Things that weren't thrown at me when I was a kid, I didn't grow up with social media the way teens do now. Um, and so the idea of, of kind of writing, you know, first and foremost, a fun story, but behind the scenes would be kind of tackling some of these bigger issues kind of coalesced after that discussion with my nephews. And I knew it was going to be a very tight turnaround. I knew it was going to be a 2020 book. Um, I had a very short time to pitch for the proposal, write it, uh, and kind of get it, get it out there with penguin. So, um, I, I knew that kind of pitching this story that would involve journalism in election. It's going to mean I had a very condensed time to write the draft, but I thought it was really, uh, important and the right time for this kind of story to come out. And ultimately when we put it together, we realized, you know, summer and this obvious is before the pandemic, but we were talking about a June, 2020, and we realized no, the fall is the right time for this story, obviously closer to the election. So we've, we, it got pushed to September 20, 20 instead of June.
Speaker 2:So you could have had like three more months to write
Speaker 3:Exactly if only yeah. If only we knew,
Speaker 2:Okay, no, that's a Jack cause I had guessed with absolutely no background information whatsoever, but I just kind of had this assumption that you would have been inspired by the 2016 election. You've been sitting on this book now for four years.
Speaker 3:No, no, no much less than that. It was about of like people who know the publishing world and my first books, my first book becoming in, uh, it was over two years from the time we sold it to the time they came out on the shelves, um, which is not unusual, very standard, but this was a little over a year. So it was definitely a short timeframe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Super fast. It does happen. But I also, I mean, how, who could blame you or your publisher for wanting to get it out in this season? It's so perfect in the book, you, you have a teacher who's kind of teaching political science in the midst of this school election. Uh, and she mentions how the school election is like a microcosm of the greater national election. So the, the stirring this school year is also happening at the same time as a national presidential election. Um, but you really avoid, uh, interestingly enough, I was surprised you really avoid a lot of politics in the book. It is not a particularly political book, um, and which I appreciated as a reader because I, you never know going into something. And I liked that you really focused more on like the big picture and voting and having your voice heard and how democracy works and how immediate plays a part in it rather than digging into, you know, this side and that side. Was it hard for you to kind of keep politics out of it? You don't know
Speaker 3:Really, because I always wanted to come at it with the perspective of, you know, anytime I write anything, my characters are the most important part to me. And, and politics is not a character in my mind, you know, my characters, cat and Angelina and Leo and, and their friends. Uh, I want to tell their story. Uh, and somebody actually wants asked me, uh, in an, in a blog post to interview. Um, if I felt like I wrote a political book hidden in the middle of a high school drama or the other way around, uh, and I definitely, my aim was a political book hidden in a high school drama. You know, I wanted it to be an escape. I wanted it to make sure that peop people enjoy the story for the story. And you don't have to be into politics in any way into journalism to, to kind of appreciate this story though. Those are the backdrop that it set, but it's not the main story. So making sure that it really was about what I think young people are, are doing and interested in, um, you know, whether it's black lives matter protests or climate change, um, you know, teens are involved in that aspect of politics of like putting themselves out there, realizing they do have a voice and they can use it. Um, and that I think is really what I wanted to showcase rather than the intricacies of politics of one side or the other. And I wouldn't have been interested in any of that as a teen, for sure. I'm not interested in, you know, aspects of politics, even as an adult. There are things I, you know, I could feel like, well, that's too much, I don't need that. And these are the things I actually care about in politics. So for someone as an author to make the choice of what politics I'm going to present in a book, you know, that that's just like so hard to figure out what does someone want to read, but this idea of teens having a voice and using that voice, um, is really the aspect I wanted to showcase in, in the book.
Speaker 2:[inaudible]. Yeah, no, and I love that. I love that aspect of it. I love that it, at no point, is this a book that feels like it's pushing anything onto anybody or criticizing anyone? Like it's felt like a very holistic view of the process. Um, and I even, I felt like, you know, as we're seeing these two campaigners, um, the two students who are trying to become the president of the, their school, uh, and then also with kind of the two newspapers going on, I started to feel like some of the bigger themes or messages coming across for me as a reader was like, not that sometimes this side is right or this side is wrong, but more about like what we can accomplish when two sides move together. Um, which I feel like is a really important thing to be discussed that is often completely ignored in larger politics.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. You know, and that's a situation we we've been in for quite some time, um, you know, the, the opposition, uh, and almost like just like knee-jerk opposition, you know, whatever you say, I'm going to say something else on I'm going to tout something else. Um, it's so unproductive. Um, and it does a disservice to people who need their politicians and need people to, um, be doing things, to make their lives better and to help them. And I have actually also seen it, um, in friends and family members of, of, you know, relationships being strange because people, um, it's, it should be okay to have different views and still co-exist to some extent, um, I mean, I think we can get into the intricacies of certain things of that. Not, you know, where where's your line there, but you know, the idea that people can come at things from different places. And, and if you start to understand why someone believes what they do, you don't always have to be aligned on every single thing in order to have a relationship or be productive. Um, and so I think the, the idea of, um, how much more you can accomplish you work together as opposed to separate, uh, is definitely something I wanted to kind of showcase in the book through, uh, Angelina and Leo.
Speaker 2:Um, and tell me about your decision to write the book from both sisters perspectives. Um, you know, cause cause you can really, as reading the book, you can feel how well it could have been Angelina's story or it could have been cat story. Um, but you opted to show both of their perspectives, um, which I thought so much more depth to the tale. Um, and I really love getting to watch each of them grow. I mean, they both have really phenomenal character arcs over the course of this story. Uh, so what were some of the things that you were trying to accomplish by including both perspectives?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well thank you for saying that because the character arc is really are the things I concentrate on the most before I do any other, uh, you know, planning for my books. And I feel like th this idea of having foils, having people who start out as opposites, uh, allows you to actually make their character arc so much stronger, um, because having one, one who's at one extreme and one at the other, and they kind of at some point maybe cross the middle of each other and then come out the other side by the end of the book, not that they're each completely changed and on the other side, but they see, they see benefits to each of their perspectives. Um, and I think that makes them grow so much more than if they only had their own single arc. Um, and the reader sees that the reader can, uh, dig into the change that these characters are going through by comparing what each is doing. Um, but also because it's a, you know, kind of this story that's telling, you know, say the old school, uh, uh, perspective of, of journalism and this newer YouTube, um, kind of, uh, kind of perspective. Um, one story wouldn't tell the whole story. It would either just be cat, you know, kind of maybe realizing some of the value of, of newer methods of communication, or it would be Angelina, you know, having to wait, take a step back from social media, um, in order to kind of have an arc, but comparing those two arcs together allows both sides of that story to be told. Um, so, you know, I definitely think it was fully rounded out by having the two of their, two of them tell the story. Um, and it could have been either of those. Um, it also could have, when I first started, it was even more, I had like four or five people like narrating this, and I was like, no way too many people to the core. The sisters are the core of the story that each represent the aspect that I want to talk about thematically in the book, the two is enough, there's enough going on in this story that we don't need more people narrating. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's so interesting though, to hear that you did have more, um, and I would have loved to see some Leo chapters character,
Speaker 2:But I
Speaker 3:Also totally get what you're saying well, and because, because my editor was also super supportive of incorporating, you know, these kinds of a multimedia elements of there's Instagram posts and text messages and Twitter feeds, um, and a running newspaper article. And then you have articles from the rival, you know, on the newspaper that pops up. So there are kind of other quote unquote, you know, perspectives or voices in the book through these other things. So, um, you know, in some ways I was trying to get a little bit more Leo in there through some of these, but, uh, you know, those other aspects, which were super fun to write and incorporate also became another element to this story. So unfortunately, you know, Leo's voice got cut.
Speaker 2:I also, I loved like the little sides and the little like Instagram posts and all of the quirky comments afterwards, which were real. I was like, Oh yeah, I know this person on Instagram. Did you have a sister that you felt like you connected with more than the other, you know, in some ways, um,
Speaker 3:Should have been cat because we kind of share some of the background. I love journalism and, and kind of working on a newspaper. Um, but she is definitely a more, more timid. She needs to kind of come out of her shell. She needs to get some more competence and Angelina is kind of the opposite. She was all ambition. Um, and she has every ounce of confidence in herself. Um, and so, you know, in some ways I feel like when I was younger, when I was in high school, when I was cat's age, I was very much more like cat. Um, and the older I've gotten and kind of the more I know what I want to have life and out of my career, uh, I'm a little bit more on the Angelina bent of kind of being a little bit more ambitious than being a little more forth, uh, you know, forward and forth writing and kind of what, what, um, what I'm hoping to do in my aspiration. So that part of Angelina, even though I'm not a YouTuber and I'm not in that world, uh, I could almost feel like I could relate to her just a little bit more in terms of where, you know, my mental head space is.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Uh huh. That's so funny. It's like you've had your own personal character arc, right? Exactly. I guess we all do growing up is just one big character arc. Right, right, right. So I have to say my personal favorite character of all the characters was Ravi. I loved him and I have to, can I read this, um, the, the synopsis he wants to write a graphic novel you described at one point he's telling cat what his graphic novel is about. And he describes it as a fat Indian American kid at summer camp who discovers he's a shape-shifting workshop. AXA rickshaw ultimately uses his powers to save the asshole campers who made fun of from an evil counselor who descended from Lizzie Borden. Can you please write this? You know, it's so
Speaker 3:Funny to like, right. Uh, like, and not that he's, he, he's funny and he's got some good one-liners, he's trying to get cat to kind of open up a little bit more. So he's one of those characters you can have some fun with. Um, and when, when you have a character like that, it's natural for something kind of as outlandish as his description of his graphic novel to come to life because you believe it. Cause he's already kind of been that kind of person, but that was kind of me, how much, how many, like new England or kind of like personal references? Can I cram into this one big, my friends own a summer camp, you know, Disney board and it's a big Massachusetts things. One of my friends wrote a book about Lizzie Borden. I was like, how can I do this cram, all this stuff into this one, graphic novel.
Speaker 2:I love it. I'm like really, I would read that in a heartbeat. You never run out of other ideas. It's a winner
Speaker 3:Noted. I, I, if you want to, co-write it with me anytime,
Speaker 2:Right back in my court. Yeah. Well, on that note, what is next for you? What else are you working on now?
Speaker 3:So I, I have another, uh, young adult sisters story and I've actually kind of realized, like, I think every single young adult book I wrote in some aspect of a, of a sister's story, whether it's actual sisters or found sisters, that seems to be a running, running theme. So I've, I've kind of got that like in, in, in process. Um, and I actually, uh, in delving into some other areas, um, I have, uh, an adult historical that I can't talk much about, but it, hopefully I'll be able to talk about it soon. Uh, but that's kind of, uh, kind of in the works. Um, and I'm diving into a middle grade as well. So I'm just trying to hit every genre I possibly can at the moment. I've been very productive during this pandemic time, which I guess is a good thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's so funny. Just, um, last week I was talking to Julie Dow and she also has like been bouncing to a lot of different genres and age groups, um, very productive. And we were talking about that and like, what, what is it about this world that we're living in right now that, because I also feel like I've been wanting to expand beyond my normal and like have had a lot of ideas for different things, different genres and yeah. What's causing that, you know, I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 3:Oh, but you know, I think it's, um, you know, on a practical level, um, you know, the more different, you know, categories you can write in the more opportunities you have, because you can only publish so many, you know, w why a book a year, or, you know, so if you wanna, if you are, um, a faster writer or more productive writer, you know, entering another genre allows you to, Oh, maybe I could try to sell to this year. So I think like that's a practical reason, depending on how fast you are as, as a writer. But I also think for me personally, I've like expanded my world of kind of, uh, reading and TV watching this year. Like I always watched some TV, but I did find myself watching a little bit more during this time I will admit it. Um, and I was watching all sorts of different things. Uh, and then reading, you know, I always read so much young adults and middle grades to kind of stay abreast of what that world is. But then I found myself opening up to reading more, you know, more genres and more things, um, whether it was psychological thrillers or more historical or more just adult contemporary. And I think that's just inspired me to be like, Oh, I want to dabble in that. And I want to do that because of the other entertainment I'm consuming that I'm really enjoying. Yeah.
Speaker 2:No, that totally makes sense. I'm going to keep asking that question now I'm wondering like, cause I feel like we're hearing a lot about writers who are struggling to write in some aspects, but then like really inspired to write in these other aspects. And I just think it's such an interesting results of, of everything that's going on. And I just makes me really curious, like I want to psychoanalyze this what's happening in our brains right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I think it's, for me kind of being more productive, uh, was, was kind of two things. Partly. Um, I, I teach at a writing center, uh, in Boston called grub street, uh, which has gone all remote during this. Um, and usually I take, uh, some periods off teaching, especially during, during the summer, um, because either I'm going somewhere where friends and family are visiting and, and I don't usually teach over the summer, but I kept teaching straight through since my classes went from in-person to, to remote in, in March. And I kept teaching kind of basically straight through now. And I'm, I'm teaching two classes a week now and, um, being around other writers and other writers who, you know, we would get together weekly on, on zoom to do our class and to do our workshopping. Um, and, uh, we all kind of kept our each other inspired. So I think for me, that kind of like, well, if I'm, if I'm teaching my students, like, yes, your voice is still mattered and your stories still matter, and we need to dedicate ourselves to getting them out there. Well, I better do that too. So I think that was one piece for me, but you know, also my, my personality, uh, is, you know, little type a personality and, um, kind of the more I could dive into what I know and what I enjoy gave me kind of more, a sense of balance and more sense of, of hope. So kind of abandoning the writing for me was making me more, feel like more groundless and more like, what am I doing? And when is all this gonna gonna get better? And my worries of this and my fears of that, um, kind of centering myself on, you know, I can come up with characters and I can plot a book and I can sit and start to write it that gave me control in a way that I didn't have control over a lot of other things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I relate to that so much. Um, whenever I don't have a goal or there's not something I'm specifically working toward on any given day, I just feel so untethered and grounded and like, what am I doing with my life? What am I supposed to be doing right now? And I hate that feeling, yes, me too.
Speaker 3:Same, same. I, you know, you turn in a book and then like all of a sudden you're itchy the next day my friends are like, Oh, so you're taking some downtime. And I was like, I don't know what that means. I don't know how to do that.
Speaker 2:Hearing the end of a book, I'll have these fantasies of like, Oh, I'm going to take two months off and I'm not going to write. I'm just going to read and go to movies and relax. And then like, like you say, the second you turn it in, your brain is like, no, here's 20.
Speaker 3:Exactly. Okay.
Speaker 2:We're going to wrap this up with our happy writer lightning round. Okay. What book makes you happy?
Speaker 3:Oh gosh. Um, I'm just going to go with the last one. I read that I loved, which was, uh, Daisy Jones and the sixth by Taylor Jenkins read. I just love everything about that. And I'm fascinated by format of, uh, books I play with structure and format, and that does it so well.
Speaker 2:I have heard such amazing things about that. I haven't read it, but I feel like I've seen it everywhere I go.
Speaker 3:It's great. You'll love it.
Speaker 2:I appreciate the recommendations. I'll move it up on my never ending list. What do you do to celebrate an accomplishment?
Speaker 3:Oh, well, I don't know if I'm allowed to say, but I'm a big, uh, sparkling wine fan, so that will, that will always be, that will always be part of it. Um, but you know, I think one of the best things for me is complement except especially in the writing world is when I get to share good news with my parents, because they've been so supportive of me doing this. And, um, my dad never read a fiction book, uh, I think in his life until he started reading my books. Um, so kind of then being a part of this journey, uh, makes everything kind of real and feel like celebratory
Speaker 2:To call them and tell them things. Oh, that's so cool. Uh, and for the record, sparkling wine is a very popular answer to
Speaker 3:That.
Speaker 2:How do you feel the creative? Well, this is
Speaker 3:Something that is really actually kind of hard for me and what we were just talking about, about kind of going from project to project. Um, I, I was just talking to a friend and she was recommending the artist's way and a couple of other books. Um, and I'm not super into those, but I read other, um, non-fiction books that I feel like kind of inspire me, whether it's like a book, like 10% happier or something like that. A little bit on the self-help Ben, maybe it's not necessarily a creative self-help bet, but something that makes me just take a step back and kind of evaluate my life as a whole is kind of where I always find myself going when I'm in those moments of a meeting to kind of figure out how to refill that,
Speaker 2:What advice would you give to help someone become a happier writer? I think that in order to be
Speaker 3:You're a writer, you have to love what you're writing. Um, and this is something that I teach as part of my classes, as well as sometimes I'll be talking to someone about the book that they're writing and, um, they'll say, well, you know, it's like a murder mystery, but I don't read any murder mystery books. I don't read any detective books. And I said, well then why are you writing this? Because if you don't, um, love kind of the genre that you're writing in or what you're doing, uh, you're going to get bored with the project or you're going to get frustrated. So I think making, and you don't have to necessarily research is fine and reading other books or doing your research to be able to figure out, you know, what kind of story you want to tell, but making sure at the base level that you really love some aspect of your story, whether it's this character story or the genre, or, you know, the plot that you've come up with or the world, if you're doing a fantasy, like making sure you're really love it, because then you're going to be excited to go to it every day. And hopefully that's going to keep you ready to experience a happy one. Lastly, where can people find you? So, um, um, my website is Lori Goldstein, bookstore com. Uh, but I am most active on Instagram and I am, uh, Lori Goldstein books on Instagram. That is, that is kind of my biggest social media plays at the moment as I'm trying to kind of limit, uh, how much time I'm spending online. But that, that is where I am. Awesome. Thank you so much for joining me, Laurie, thank you for having me readers. Definitely check out sources say, which is out now. Of course, we always encourage you to support your local indie bookstore. You can, but if you don't have a local indie, you can also check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marissa Meyer. If you're enjoying these conversations, we would love it. If you subscribed and help us spread the word to other readers and writers, you can find us on Instagram at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy and cozy in your bunkers. If you're over the age of 18 in the United States, I hope that you will vote. It's coming up so soon and whatever life throws at you today, I do hope that now you're feeling
Speaker 1:[inaudible].