Marissa chats with Liz Szabla, Associate Publisher of Feiwel & Friends, Macmillan Children's Publishing Group, who also happens to be Marissa's editor! Discussion topics include what, exactly, an editor's job entails; thoughts on an author making a "lane change" into a new genre; the importance of trust in the author/editor relationship; and how Liz adapts her editing process to fit the needs of each individual author.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa chats with Liz Szabla, Associate Publisher of Feiwel & Friends, Macmillan Children's Publishing Group, who also happens to be Marissa's editor! Discussion topics include what, exactly, an editor's job entails; thoughts on an author making a "lane change" into a new genre; the importance of trust in the author/editor relationship; and how Liz adapts her editing process to fit the needs of each individual author.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I'm your host, Marissa Meyer. Thanks so much for joining me. One thing that's been making me happy this week and I'll admit it's kind of a silly thing, but Sabra, the food manufacturer makes the most delicious lemon zest hummus, and I am addicted to it. I think it's so good, but it has not been available at my grocery store for, I dunno, maybe like three or four months and I have missed it desperately. And I went grocery shopping over the weekend and it was back and I'm so excited and I've stocked up and I hope they never ever lose it again because i t i s my favorite thing. Right. S o if y ou y ou're on this fan, as I h appened to b e, i t's probably my favorite midday snack. Totally check out Sabras lemon, zest hummus. And as I'm saying this, I think I need to figure out how to get sponsors for this podcast. All right. And then I am super, super happy to be talking to today's guest. She is the associate publisher of Feiwell and friends and imprint of Macmillan children's publishing group. And she also happens to me. My incredible editor, please. Welcome Liz. Thanks Marissa. I'm so happy and thrilled to be here. I am so happy and thrilled to have you thank you for making time to do this with me. I know listeners. We're super excited to hear that they're going to get a little bit of the inside behind the scenes, look into the publishing world. Well, I'm ready to tell. Okay. That's good. Well, I don't usually do this, but for our interview, I thought it would be fun to, um, elicit some questions from listeners kind of figure out what do they really want to know? Um, and so there's, uh, and so I put it out on Instagram, thanks to everybody who responded. Um, and there's some that I think you're probably going to be like, Oh yes, I get asked that all the time. Um, and then some that were asking a little bit about how you and I worked together, which I thought was really interesting. So I think it's going to be really fun to talk about. Yay. So for starters, Liz, uh, just to give a little bit of background, how long have you been in editorial or in publishing? Oh boy, this is going to age me quite a bit since 1984, Liz that's the year that I was born, probably there's some listeners saying I
Speaker 3:Wasn't even born yet, but to New York in 1984 and got my first job as an editorial assistant for scientific American publishing. And I had had so many dreams of working at random house or somewhere Simon and Schuster, somewhere glamorous on fiction and national board, national book, award winners. And I got this great job in scientific America. And I took the first job I was offered and I thought scientific American, this is not me textbooks, you know, books about science by Nobel prize winners. How am I going to help with this? And it turned out to be one of the best learning experiences I could h ave asked for. U m, I just worked with such great people, such great authors, and because I really didn't understand most of the subject material, I was very focused on mechanics and sort of deep dives into what worked and what didn't. And it was great.
Speaker 2:That's so interesting. I did not know that about you. Yeah. And I think it's funny because you know, a lot of people ask me like, what, what is my history? What did I do before I became a writer? Um, and I was an editor. I think you probably know this, but in a small publishing house in Seattle that did fine art books. Yeah. And it was very similar where I didn't know anything about art or art history or, uh, like any of that. Um, and so it was very much a learning experience and I felt like I really came to appreciate art so much more looking at those just beautiful, gorgeous books, but also like you say, it really forced me to focus on, you know, the, the nitty gritty of the language and the grammar and the type setting.
Speaker 3:Right. It forced, it, it's a great way to sort of get initiated into the process, you know, publishing process from acquisition to printing to bound books. It's fantastic.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Did you feel like you learned a ton about science doing that?
Speaker 3:You know, I would love to say I learned a ton. I don't know how much I was completely taking it, working for scientific American didn't necessarily deepen my scientific knowledge. Not that I had much, but it made me appreciate the people who work in it and who devote all of their lives and brain power to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I feel the same way about the art world. I still don't really know much about the art world. Um, but at least I feel like if I go to a museum now I have some background knowledge of, of what I'm looking at and how this art came to be here and why it's important. Yeah. Okay. So tell me, so now of course you did go on to become, uh, an associate publisher, um, after I'm sure many, many steps, um, and now you get to work with fiction and children's books. So tell me and tell listeners, what exactly do you do? What is your job?
Speaker 3:Oh, my job is so in things, which is exactly what I love about it. Um, uh, AIDS, you know, what you could imagine, which is reading submissions, working on things that I acquire. I work on everything from picture books, through young adult fiction and some non-fiction as well. Um, so besides reading submissions and, and reading and working on what I acquire, I'm working with people on our team, helping out with, with their processes, their editorial processes, I'm talking constantly to literary agents and authors. I work with our publisher, Jean Feiwell to keep books on track. I watched schedules. I work with our managing editor. I work with our creative director and designers to keep everything on track from interior design to cover design, um, give my input, um, message them with input from authors. Um, and I work with probably one of the things I love most is working with our marketing and publicity groups. Once a book is ready to go out into the world and to help in any way I can to shape, um, a marketing or publicity campaign or back it up, or be there with an author who might be new to the process and help them through it. Um, I work with our sales people, whatever they need, I'm at their Beck and call because of course I want our books to sell and they are super important to that process. Um, and that's kind of the top of the mountain. It's not the level. Um, there's a lot more love or details. I do a lot of like contracts and add and stuff. That's probably not as interesting to your listeners.
Speaker 2:I know from a writer's perspective, um, of course, you know, you're, you're my main contact at the publishing house and helping me develop books and, you know, guide the books editorially. Um, but I also feel like you are like one of my main advocates, u m, at the house. And that you're kind of my go-to person, as far as keeping me, u h, informed about what's happening with cover art or what's happening with the sales department or, you know, y ou're kind of my, my number one go-to informer, u m, t o just make sure that I'm in the know, because a lot of people th at p ublishing in the publishing house, of course, they're so focused on these big lists and big things that are happening and th ere's, you know, so many cogs an d s o many wheels, it's a huge machine. Um, a nd I think a lot of authors sometimes feel like they can be forgotten in the midst of it. Um, a nd yet we have our editor there to, you know, be our touch person, which is really important.
Speaker 3:It is important. And I think that's probably one of the most important and gratifying parts of my job as an editor, once a book is acquired. And once I'm working with authors and artists, and I would say, and I would hope that a t most houses and imprints, that is the case. U m, but it's something that I particularly enjoy, which is being, you know, advocating for the books I work on for the creators I work with. And also keeping, keeping things in your comfort zone. You know, I mean, I hope generally what will happen and what I hope will happen is that creators will say to me, I don't want to give a keynote speech. I want to be interviewed on the radio. You know, I, I am not comfortable doing X, Y, and Z, or my dream is to have an a d in, you know, p ublishers weekly or, you know, I really hope there w ere five people I would like to blurb my book and I really hope we can make that happen. And that's a conversation that we have, and it's my job to kind of manage expectations because sometimes expectations are a little on the high side. Sometimes they're a little on the l ow s ide and I know t he business, so I try to keep it all real. U m, but it really is. It's a, it's a fun, u m, thoughtful and often satisfying process t o, a nd I love it. Y eah.
Speaker 2:I had to imagine it's one of those jobs where no two days ever look exactly the same.
Speaker 3:Oh, that is exactly right. No, two days look, this a in't like, no two projects follow this same process. They might follow th is s imilar processes through the publishing ca use w e have to, but everything is different. And that's, I love that about my job.
Speaker 2:So does your process and your way of editing or, you know, shepherding a book from first draft through copy edits, is it pretty much the stagnant and the same, or does it vary widely based on the author, based on the book
Speaker 3:It's incredibly based on the author and based on the book and based what I mean by that is it really depends. You know, books come to me in various stages of being ready for publication. Sometimes 80% of a book isn't ready, but 20% is so we're going to do a lot of prevention and that revision looks different for every author. Um, the way I give notes might be different for every author depending on how that person wants to receive and collaborate on it, if that makes sense. Um, and I would say that I, I there's, I probably have stylistic ways of editing or communicating that are similar from book to book, but they don't feel that way to me. Um, I think there are some authors who kind of enjoy having a distance, um, between me and them and prefer to just communicate on either via email or by notes on a manuscript. Um, and then there are some who want to have phone conversations who want to have some face time now that we're virtual, we can hop on a video chat, um, it's just dependence and there's no right or wrong way to collaborate, if that makes sense every different way of doing it and whatever works for you, but it's my job to be flexible about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, definitely. And I know even, you know, in my experience, um, I think different books require a different levels of editing. Um, and I know like with cinder, uh, of course the first novel that we worked on together, I remember your notes felt super light. Um, and that there was very little to be done with that book. Um, whether that's just because I had already worked it to, within an inch of its life, by the time it came to you, um, uh, on the opposite end of the spectrum, like one of my favorite memories of working with you was with renegades and the first, no, it wasn't the first draft, the first d raft that you saw, u m, wasn't working for a number of reasons and we were on a really super tight deadline, super tight crunch. U m, and you actually ended up flying out
Speaker 3:To meet me here in Tacoma, you know, flew across the car.
Speaker 2:We just had a lovely day and sat down and hammered out so much of the plot and the details going into this really Epic revision. Um, and I know for me, I just so appreciated that you were willing to do that. And I felt like having that one-on-one conversation in person made a huge difference for how the book ended up turning out.
Speaker 3:I think it did. And I wish I could do that more. Okay. Definitely a rare thing. And I definitely don't think people should hear that and be like, Oh, that's how that works. It is a rare thing. It was a real treat for me. And, you know, not only did we hash it out and work through some of the roadblocks that both of us were encountering in that project, but for me, it also pulled the curtain back on so much of your process and your thought process and where you had been with the book and where you were going with it. And, and that was invaluable to me and it's affected, uh, you know, affected positively I think our work going forward. So it was, that was, that was really fantastic. I think that possibly something that will come out of the time we're living through right now is that, that kind of, um, face-to-face time might be a little more possible and might be a little more comfortable now that we've gotten used to doing zoom calls and Google chats and things like that, where, you know, I couldn't spend the day with you necessarily, or be in the same room as you, but we could, we could talk in a more comfortable way. So that could be a silver lining in terms of how editors work with creators after this time.
Speaker 2:Interesting to see, I mean, in so many ways how COVID in this whole situation is affecting all aspects of life. Um, but that one, it will be, I think, yeah, the comfortability t hat'll w ork
Speaker 3:Editor
Speaker 2:Dealing with virtual calls and this kind of FaceTiming aspect, it really is changing. This changed quite, quite quickly and quite significantly.
Speaker 3:Well, it certainly has for you because you're doing so many events virtually. I get to sit in on some of them. And in many ways I see the engagement as being more intimate with your readers. And I find that fascinating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it is interesting. And we're recording this, um, before my launch week. So I haven't had any of my meet and greets yet for instant karma, my virtual meet and greets. Um, and I'm just so curious and a little nervous, honestly, to see how they go, it's going to be so different.
Speaker 3:It's going to be really different. But I think that, you know, from what I've seen so far with you and with other authors I'm working with, I think that there are some readers who might not be able to get to an in-person event for whatever reason, or it might even be too shy, even if they were at the event to approach you. I think that there are some readers, um, who will really appreciate this and are really appreciating the connection that they're having.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. And I do think that that's a huge benefit to all of this is just how more people are able to join in for some of these events to be able to make it before
Speaker 3:What we're seeing in conferences, especially at the, um, registration and enrollment for certain panels that authors are participating in can be as much as twice as large as they would have been in person. You know? I mean, that's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. Yes. And I'm excited. I have, we have y'all right. Coming up here in a few weeks and I'm so excited to see how it goes. Um, I really think it's going to be embraced by so many people who normally couldn't get to the conference. So I think it's going to be great.
Speaker 3:I do too. It can start
Speaker 2:A whole new type of conference going forward.
Speaker 3:I don't think so. I'm curious.
Speaker 2:So back to editing one question that came up a lot in the questions, because of course this is a podcast largely geared at authors and aspiring authors is what do you look for when you're acquiring a manuscript? What are some of the things that kind of solidify for you that, Oh, yes, this is a book that I want on my list.
Speaker 3:That is a really good question. Um, and it's really hard for me to answer. I think there are so many editors and I so admire editors who can answer that question smoothly and articulately and say, this is what I look for. This is what I love for me. It's so much more by my gut. And it's a bit of a feeling it's a little hard for me to put it into words, but I'll tell you what I can say is that I look first and foremost in fiction for voice. I, if I can and hear that, that narrative voice, whether it's third person, first person, I am going to keep reading. If I feel a distance I'm going to keep, I'm going to keep reading and hope that it comes a little bit closer. Um, but if the voice starts out great, and I feel like the author knows who they are writing about and whose point of view they're writing from then, that's where my 80 20 rule kind of comes into play. If 80% of the book isn't working, but 20% is, and the 20% that's working has a great voice. I'm going to roll up my sleeves and try to work on it with the author. So voice is always number one for me.
Speaker 2:So how often do you acquire a book, um, or a new author coming to you and you think, okay, this is kind of a mess. It's going to take a ton of work, but I'm willing to do it. Like, is that a common thing, or do you feel like most of the books you acquire are pretty, pretty set, pretty final?
Speaker 3:Well, I wouldn't say it's a common thing, but it happens a lot, you know, and some of my, some of the favorite projects I've worked on in the recent past had five great pages, you know, and we were, we went through revision after revision, after revision and just Polish them to sparkling. So it's hard for me to kind of quantify it. It's not 50% even of the projects I acquire, but it's not nothing. And, you know, I've, I I'll do it. And the challenge when I find something like that is to get a project through the acquisition process, because there are so many people in the company who are reading it. And that's when I have to hope that they trust my vision and they trust me when I say this is a diamond in the rough, here's my vision for it. And I think this is going to be terrific and we should bring it in
Speaker 2:Again, kind of coming back to being an advocate for the office.
Speaker 3:Right. It does start at acquisition for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I have a rule for myself when I'm reading that if a book hasn't captured me by page 50, that I'm allowed to put it aside. Um, and that's, I have to get through at least 50 pages to know if it's one that I'm going to devote any more time to do you, when you're reading something that's been submitted to you, do you have a similar rule or like, what's, do you know, is there, does there tend to be a point at which, you know, this is going to be a yes or this is going to be a, no,
Speaker 3:There is a point, but it's not the same point for every project. And I would like to say, I have a 50 page rule too. I do keep 50 pages in front of mind. Sometimes I block it out differently. And I say, you know, if I'm on chapter three and I still don't understand what this book is about, I'm going to stop reading or, you know, I'm up to page 50 and I'm just, I don't get it. Um, but sometimes it happens sooner. Sometimes I just find a style or a story that I know right away is not a good fit for me. Um, and as I say on shark tank, and for that reason,
Speaker 2:It's so similar to shark tank in some way, tips or advice would you give to an author for when it comes to working with their editor?
Speaker 3:This is a really nice opportunity.
Speaker 2:Yes. What can I do better?
Speaker 3:No, of course. You know, working with you is a dream. Okay,
Speaker 2:Good.
Speaker 3:I used to advocate for editors everywhere. I would say, you know, be open, just be open. Um, and also understand that an editor, I'm always saying this, and you've heard this from me probably a million times, but what I'm saying, isn't written in stone. What I, the response I give or the suggestion I give or the feedback I give is meant to be directional. You know, nothing pleases me more than to give notes on something and have an author be sparked to revise, but go down a whole different path that I didn't even think of, but that makes the book work. So it's what I, what editors say, what I say, I'm only going to speak for myself here. What I say isn't really necessarily written in stone. And if it is, I'll say it, I'll say I have a problem with this, you know? Um, but I, I love that sort of give and take of, of the collaborative process of making a suggestion, having an author, think about it, having the author come back and say, what if we did this and me, I didn't even think about that, but that process doesn't happen unless both of us are open and we aren't teachers, you know what I mean? Um, I'm not a teacher, I'm not correcting something. I'm not giving you a grade. I'm, I'm just, I'm there to help. I'm just there to help and to bring out the very best in all parts of the story, the characters, the plot, the voice. And again, I love my job. Doesn't it sound great.
Speaker 2:It does sound great. No, I'm so glad you say that too, because I know a lot of authors, um, aspiring and myself included when I was aspiring. You hear these horror stories about, you know, Oh, I, I, this author sent there, got a book deal and the publisher just changed everything about it. And they were forced to do XYZ. And now the author hates their book and you hear stories like that. And I know for me, working with you has always been incredible and I've never once felt like, uh, you know, you, you or anyone at the company was trying to strong arm me into changing something that I didn't want to change. I've always very much felt like I had complete control. And if something wasn't working for you, it was a dialogue that we could have to discuss. And, uh, if I was really intent on something, then I could stage my point and we could discuss it. And so I've always felt like it was, uh, something that, um, you know, was, was open for discussion that I've never been forced into doing anything with the books that I didn't want to do.
Speaker 3:I'm glad to hear that.
Speaker 2:And I, in talking to other authors, I feel like that is far more the reality than these horror stories. Um, but, but those horror stories are out there. So hopefully hearing that for any authors out there who are nervous about that. Um, I think it's, it's the exception, not the rule.
Speaker 3:I hope so. And you know, my thought about that is I don't want, uh, a create or an author and an artist to have their book out into the world and have, and not be happy with it. You know, a book should be one of the most joyous life experiences. It certainly is for me. And I'm not the author, I'm not the creator, but, you know, I'm, I'm happy and nervous and kind of like fluttering every time. The first bound book is in my hands. So I, I don't want a create or t wo t o be published and to have to then do the rest of their job, which to promote and be interviewed and, and, and present their books and not be happy because you can tell when somebody is un happy.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No, that would be awful. It would be really, really sad.
Speaker 3:Yes. Yes. Um, so sometimes, you know, I have had, uh, situations, especially with picture books, you know, where let's just say, I'm not naming anything specific, but something happens on a cover and the creator says, Oh my goodness. You know, that color is just, it's just not working well, I need to correct it because if that's on my cover, I'm never going to be happy with the book. And when I hear something like that, that, you know, sets off a big alarm for me. So it's that kind of thing. It's kind of, that's sort of a simplistic way of explaining it that hopefully that makes yeah,
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's you definitely, as a creator, you do, you put so much heart and love into these projects. You want to be happy with the end result.
Speaker 3:Right. Right.
Speaker 2:Um, and that kind of opens up now to some of the questions that people asked about, uh, you and me and our working relationship more specifically. Um, and one of the questions was what do you do when, u h, you and I have a disagreement about something that should happen in a book?
Speaker 3:Have you ever had a disagreement?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. The only, I mean, I'm sure if I thought more about it, maybe I could come up with more. Um, I do vaguely. Remember when we were working on cinder, which ends on very much a cliffhanger ending. And I remember one of the notes being like, how can we have this r esolve more? And does it have to end on a cliffhanger? And it was one of those things where I was like, no, it has to end here exactly where ci nder s tory is going in book tw o. U m, an d so, and you didn't push me. You didn't fight me on it. I remember that you trusted that. I had a really good reason for it. Um, an d then I spent the next year fighting off angry readers for this awful.
Speaker 3:Then the rest is the rest is history because in fact you were right. Had cinder ended in a more solid place. The lunar Chronicles would not have had the kind of running start that it had, frankly. And, you know, that was a taste thing for me. And also a bit of a market thing sometimes, you know, I'm sure you've read reviews and your listeners have read reviews where, especially if it's the first book of a, duology a trilogy, a quartet, the reviewer says, well, a cliffhanger ending. And sometimes that's seen as a negative thing. So I was, you know, I'd like to say, I was protecting you trying to protect you from that kind of feedback. But, you know, it was coming from my experience, my market experience. But in fact, you knew exactly what you were doing. It was the right thing to do. You had a great, um, explanation for me. You, you showed me that you were confident about why you were doing it and where it was going, and I felt comfortable with it so that if it did come up in house, I could speak to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, thank you. And thank you for trusting me because you're right. It did end up working really well. And I think that really yelled at me that first year, I think they came around, um, who is your favorite of favorite character of my out of my books. I feel weird. Okay. Out of all
Speaker 3:Your books, I have to name my favorite character.
Speaker 2:The person asked who was your favorite character or characters from one of them. R ight.
Speaker 3:Okay. Well, um, I would say probably at the very top of the list would be a couple and that would be Kath and Jess from Hartness. I, I, I'm getting goosebumps just saying their names out loud. Heartless is a book I could reread once a year and find more to love in it. And I worked on it with you. Um, so Katherine, just, I would say, and the lunar Chronicles, my favorite character is cinder my cyborg princess. She captured my heart from the first paragraph of that submission. So she is my favorite from the lunar Chronicles. And I'd say from renegades, my favorite character has got to be Adrian.
Speaker 2:I knew you were going to say Adrian. I did, which of my Marissa's books was the most difficult to edit.
Speaker 3:I'd go back to our Tacoma session renegades. And we were trying to kind of work, work out where some of it was going and some of the characters and their storylines, but also their origin stories. And it wasn't, I wouldn't call it difficult. It was a challenge. It was really, really challenging. And it was, yeah. And it was more challenging. You mentioned this, but it was more challenging because we were on a really tight deadline. Um, so there was some pressure involved, which I really hadn't felt as much before working on any of your, any of your books. So I would say that was the most challenging, but we got through it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I'm, for me, without a doubt, renegades has been my most challenging book to date, but it's funny how the ones that really challenge you or challenge me creatively, um, I had just ended up being so proud of by the end. Um, so I wonder if you feel kind of the same way.
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I couldn't be happier with everything that you did with renegades and the reception to that. Um, I think we'll continue to find readership for a long, long time.
Speaker 2:So I thought this was a super interesting question. Uh, someone asked, is it hard to critique the work of someone that you're close to?
Speaker 3:Ooh, well, um, I think it must be, you know, what, I haven't ever been in a situation where I've critiqued work, say that a family member has written, but I have, you know, I think this happens to a lot of editors and people in publishing that somebody close, usually a family member or close friends says my mom, my dad, my sister, my brother, my son, my daughter, my best friend has written a book for children. Will you read it? You know? And that could be a little difficult, um, especially if it's, you know, not very good. Um, but I, you know, that's a good question. I think it would be a little difficult, but once I've, I will also say that in working with certain authors over and over again, you're one of them. U m, I've worked with A nne Martin on several books, Katherine Applegate on several books there, i t gets to be a bit of a s horthand, you know, like I don't feel that I constantly have to say to you, M aurice, this is not written in stone. You know, I'm giving you a suggestion. You go ahead and you go ahead and take it. I think that there are notes that I can write to you and to other authors that I know you'll understand. And I think the way we get close through this process, it's not the same as being close, you know, personal friends. U m, but I think we just start to understand how to communicate and I don't have to be as, u m, and neither do you, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:No, it makes perfect sense to me. I also feel like now that we've, you know, worked on so many projects together, there's a lot of trust built up. Um, and I know if, I mean your, what you say about the book carries a lot of weight with an importance to me now. Um, not that it didn't when we first started working together, but you know, I I've come to understand your point of view and where you're coming from, um, editorially. And I just feel like if, if Liz suggests something or Liz has an idea, it's always going to be worth listening to. Um, so there's just like a lot of trust there.
Speaker 3:That's really great. And I think it goes well, I know it goes the other way. And something that you just said also reminds me that, you know, there are other authors I work with who I've worked on, on several books with who are men and who might be writing from the point of view of a male character. And I've had a couple of male authors, u m, r espond to notes or suggestions very kindly, but saying to me, Liz, there's no way a guy would do so t here's no way a guy would explain his emotions right here, you know? And so it's, well, we're identifying a place where there needs to be some revision and they've really helped me understand their characters as well and trust, trust that they know who they are writing about. So i t g o es
Speaker 2:Right, right. No, that makes sense. Um, so we, this episode is going to be publishing launch week for instant card. Um, so I've of course been getting the question over and over and over since we, you know, announced instant karma being my first contemporary, um, what made me switch to contemporary and what did you know, am I nervous about switching? Do I think the readers are gonna follow me, et cetera, et cetera. Um, so you, how did you feel when I first came to you with this idea, um, of taking a step, a different direction away from scifi fantasy and going into contemporary, what were some of your thoughts? Well,
Speaker 3:My first thought, and this is a thought that, you know, continues to kind of override all my thoughts about this change of direction is I'm so happy for you. It is one of my favorite things to see a n author change lanes. I think that, you know, authors who w rite series, especially very long p laying series, u m, who write in certain genres, that's great. And I think that's a comfort zone and a talent, and it's a career and I'm not, I'm not knocking it, but something that makes me really happy and excited is when an author or creator and author or a rtists comes to us or to me, and says, you know, I've really wanted to always do this. And of course I, my first thought is, well, d o y ou want to try it? You know? U m, I think it's, I think it's really exciting. So when I heard that this was something that you were so interested in, I could tell by the way you presented it, that setting a new creative bar for you. And I think that's a way to stay really nimble or creatively. Um, now I think that when an author who has had a great track record changes lanes like this, it's helpful because the market, the company, the accounts know that you sell well for them, but it's sort of like, you know, a great example is working with Catherine obligate on her first non series novel, which was a middle grade novel inverse called home of the brave. You know, a lot of people said, Katherine applicate, all she does is Animorphs, you know? Um, and so Anne Martin, after doing the babysitter's club, you know, wanted to work on standalone middle grade fiction and did, um, and I sort of, it, it's exciting. It's just exciting because it's, it's something new. And I trust that it's something that is making, it's renewing your energy as a creator. And I could tell that that was the case with you. The other part of that, the other part of the answer to this is you've always been so good at romantic relationships, that it was just something kind of bubbling, simmering, waiting to blow over. So it made sense. It really made sense. You know, I, I, might've been kind of scratching my head a little, or if you came to me and said, you know what, I want to write a bodice ripper restaurant. You know, I might've said w hat or a sports book or something, but, you know, I'm, I'm always in favor of the lane change.
Speaker 2:Well, that is good to hear because I have as, you know, many, many ideas, so there could be more later in the future.
Speaker 3:The other thing is do, are our creators expected to do the same thing for their entire careers. And again, if it's something that is constantly satisfying, I think that's great. But if there are other, you know, muscles to stretch other creative muscles to stretch, I think that's great too. Um, some of them could be successful. Some of them maybe not so much, but I think that if there's a way that an editor and a imprint and publishing house can be part of that, it can be a really great, satisfying, productive, and profitable experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I agree. I mean, I of course know lots of writers who, you know, write, say high fantasy and that's all they've ever written and it seems to be all they ever want to write. And I think that's wonderful, like you're saying, um, but then I also know so many authors who are all over the board and this year they have a picture book coming out. Now there's a WIA, and now they're working on this non-fiction and now we're trying graphic novels. And, you know, I think a lot of authors, you know, really feel that trying new things and being open with themselves and letting their creativity take it where they want to, uh, you know, it's just, it's kind of what keeps them motivated. What keeps them passionate about the craft and about always learning and developing.
Speaker 3:Right. That's a good way to put it.
Speaker 2:All right. So other than instant karma, are there any books on your list right now that you are excited for people to know about?
Speaker 3:Oh, what a good question. Other than instant karma you say,
Speaker 2:I have to assume you're excited about instant karma
Speaker 3:Karma. There is a book I was just working on, um, some material for it. Before this interview, there was a book coming in January and it's by an author. Marissa. I don't know if you've met. Her name is Randy pink and we're publishing her third. Why a novel? Um, and it's called the angel of Greenwood. And it's set in 1921 in Tulsa, Oklahoma on the Eve of the Tulsa race massacre. So it's, I guess you would call it historical fiction. Um, but it's not dry and dusty historical fiction. It's really captivating and lyrical. And it completely illuminates a time in history that hasn't been much discussed, which was a terrible, terrible, um, massacre of the residents of a black district of Tulsa, Oklahoma called Greenwood. So I'm super excited for that. It's called angel of Greenwood and it publishes in early January, 19, 1920, 2021, which is the hundredth anniversary of the massacre. My gosh, that sounds incredible. It is. All right, Liz, we are going to wrap this up with our happy writer, lightning round. Okay. You'll be fine. What book makes you happy? It's the karma. That was the correct answer. The correct answer. It's not a children's book. If it's a book that's made me happy to all my life, I would say it'd be Zora Neale. Hurston's their eyes were watching God. I probably reread it once a year. And it's not a happy book per se, but it's a book that changed me as a reader. I got to say, I find it amazing that you have time to read any book. You too, but it's, it's, it's like comfort food in a way. Oh, I have to do this now. Yeah. I know that feeling. What do you do to celebrate an accomplishment? I usually, um, talk to my family. I talked to my husband and my son, even though my son is away at college, I like to share good news with them. Make a nice meal, pour a glass of sunset and enjoy. How do you fill the creative? Well, I read and I work with creative people. Would you give to help someone become a happier person? I would say, read, read, and read some more. It will not make you write like the author whose book you're reading. It will fill mind with the sensations of voice and plot and character so that your creative self comes through. I'd also say if you have access to check out your local independent bookstore and get to know the owners or the buyers and ask them what they're looking for, ask them, what's doing well, ask them what they would love to see that they don't have. You might have your imagination sparked. That is good advice. I've never thought of that. I love that. Good. And lastly, I don't know, personally, if you do social media, but if someone were wanting to follow you, is there a place for them to do so? Well, I don't do a lot of social media. I'm a social media lurker mostly. Um, I think I have an Instagram account and I know I have a Twitter account, but I use them to learn, um, mostly I'm on Facebook. So you get to see pictures of my cats as well as cover reveals of books. I'm working on. Nice. All right, Liz, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you, Marissa. I had a great time. I did too. And I'm sad that I won't be on book tour and won't get to see you in New York this year, but, uh, it was really great to hear your voice. Thank you, you too. Um, okay. Listen guys, this is usually the part of the podcast where I encourage you to go check out my guests book. Um, but this time, I guess it's time for some self promo. Uh, my new novel instant karma edited by the delightful Liz Saba comes out tomorrow, November 3rd. I really hope that you guys will check it out. And I hope that it brings a little bit of joy and brightness to your week. Of course, we always encourage you to support your local indie bookstore if you can. But if you don't have a local indie, you can also check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marissa Meyer. You can find us on Instagram at Marissa Meyer, author and happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy and cozy and your bunkers and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling
Speaker 1:[inaudible].