The Happy Writer with Marissa Meyer
Writer's Block? Rejection? Impostor Syndrome? Writing is full of ups and downs, but we can still find plenty of joy on this creative journey! Bestselling author Marissa Meyer interviews writers and industry professionals about books, craft, and publishing, to find out how we can all bring more joy to our writing process and career.
The Happy Writer with Marissa Meyer
A Fantasy Romeo and Juliet Retelling with Chloe Gong - These Violent Delights
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Marissa chats with Chloe Gong about her debut historical fantasy - THESE VIOLENT DELIGHTS - as well as why readers continue to be enamored with Romeo & Juliet (despite the unfair scorn it receives in pop culture!); some of the decision making that goes into retelling a well-known and beloved story; building tension through world-building and using moments of omniscient point-of-view to help bring your setting to life; and how time-management has helped Chloe write her debut duology while also working toward her college degree.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Order The Happy Writer: Get More Ideas, Write More Words, and Find More Joy from First Draft to Publication and Beyond https://bookshop.org/a/11756/9781250362377
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Speaker 2Hello and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books, to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I'm your host, Marissa Meyer. Thanks so much for joining me. One thing that has been making me happy this week and is guaranteed to keep making me happy for at least the next six weeks hallmark holiday movies. The season is back. I am so happy. I wait for it and wait for it every year. And I know they're cheesy. They're not great quality. They have their flaws, but Oh my gosh, the amount of joy that these movies bring me is absolutely absurd. And I really am just giddy to curl up with my cozy blanket and a cup of hot chocolate and get into the holiday spirit. So TIS the season. I am so excited. So looking forward to it. Yay. And that is, that is what's making me happy. And of course I am also so happy to be talking to today's guest. She is currently an undergrad at the university of Pennsylvania, majoring in English and international relations. The first of a duology her debut novel, these violent delights just came out last week on November 17th. Please. Welcome Chloe gong. Whoa . I'm so happy to be here. I am so happy to have you here. And I know that right after you said that sentence, every listener was like, Oh, people get really excited. When I have guests who have accents. It's a funny thing. I love that . How are you, how you must be living on campus right now? I'm I'm on campus, but like, kind of on like off campus housing, but like close to school so that I can do all my like online classes and everything. Okay. How is it? So are you able to do in person classes at all? Like what's the, what's the situation like no, some floor , our school they've moved everything onto zoom, but they have things like , um, you can go to the library and like pick up books or like, you can go to like, whatever , um , buildings are open, but classes are still online. So I decided to come back just for like, cause I'm doing like research in my last year and I think it'd be easier to be here Robyn in New Zealand where there's like time differences . So like going to class, it'd be like, Oh wait . Oh no, that would be tough. Yeah. No. And it's has it been, I mean, it must be so strange. I mean, this is what your third year of college now. So it must be just completely different. Yeah.
Speaker 3It's, it's just, it feels so like, I can't believe that we ever had a normal because it's been so long now. Right. Like we've all really adjusted to it, but it's just, it's so strange that this is like how my college years are going to end.
Speaker 2Yeah . Yeah. Yeah. Do you think you have one more year after this or are you graduating this year?
Speaker 3I'm graduating this year . So yeah , I'm a senior now.
Speaker 2Uh , I'm sorry. That would be tough for them to go out this way for it to be your last year. We do what we have to do, but I'm sorry. We adapt. I know that's like the slogan of 2020. We adapt. So Chloe, why don't we start with you telling listeners, what is these violent delights about?
Speaker 3Okay. These vented lights is a Y historical fantasy and it is a Romeo and Juliet retelling, but set in 1920 Shanghai. So when I say re like retelling, it's kind of, it goes the route of like by way of the godfather, rather than like by way of the original romance, even in there is like romance in the book. So it is a, it is about a , um, 18 year old girl, Juliet who up to spending four years in New York, she comes back to Shanghai to resume her role as Arab , the Scarlet gang. Um, and you know, everything is going well until a series of mysterious deaths. Um, start taking over the city and because all of her people are dying. She has really no option except to work with the era of the rival gang, the white flowers, who also happens to be her ex-boyfriend from four years ago until a terrible betrayal, told them the pot . So with, you know , the city on the line , um, Julia and Roma have no choice, but to work together and find out what's happening or else both of their gangs are gonna die out and neither of them can roll their beloved city .
Speaker 2So I want to start by talking about Romeo and Juliet , uh, in general, the , the, of course, the very famous Shakespeare play that has inspired this book. And I love in your official bio, it claims that you to mysteriously appear whenever quote Romeo and Juliet, it's one of Shakespeare's best plays and it doesn't deserve it . Slander in pop culture is chanted into a mirror three times. So that cracks me up. And I mean, I will admit, I am one of those people that has slandered Romeo and Juliet, as it's not my favorite. I want to
Speaker 3Know what is it about Romeo and Juliet that you love and that, you know , drew you to want to retell this particular story. I'm very proud of that line of my book . Yeah. So Romeo and Juliet, I think, because it's like so well known , like I almost, I understand the Splenda because it's so like, it's so cliche now, right? Like it's, everyone knows the story. It's like been like, it's been done so many times and like, in a sense , I do agree with that. Right. It's been overdone . And if we like keep redoing it without really changing much, it's like, we don't really need it. Right. It's it's you can go back to the original. But the thing I love about it is that I think the original and all the ideas in it is just so fascinating. Like the reason why Shakespeare is still being taught today, I think is because like the original play, it just has such a like longevity to it. Like these ideas of like choosing love when like hate is easier or like, you know, the star crossed lovers on two opposing factions. And the fact that they'd rather like , you know, choose death in the end because , you know , everyone knows how ritually it and the fact that they'd rather do that, they'd rather , you know, choose love rather than like keep fighting hate , I think is just such a, like, it's like, it's a cliche idea now today because we've seen it over done so many times, but the fact that Roman and Julia is like the touchstone texts that like, did it first kind of, I think was just so like fascinating. Like it's, it's just so like, it's such a, you know, quintessential idea and like a core of like Western literature. So like when I wanted to redo it, I was like, you know, I'm not going to just pass it out again, because then you can just go to the play again. But I think what this play did itself was so interesting. And now if I want to like do it again, I have to be really different to it because, you know, maybe it does, like, it gets slanted in pop culture for a reason. Cause people are tired of it, but like, it's still good, but you're right. I mean, I think there is something about these stories that persist and clearly there is something in it and obviously I've done a lot of fairytale, retellings, you know , similarly how many million of Cinderella retellings do we have or do we need, but there is something about stories like this that continues to speak to people across time and across cultures. You know, there's just something at the heart of it that we relate to and connect with. And, and I think that's part of the reason why Romeo and Juliet continues and this, the star crossed the love, you know, it is like you say, it's the quintessential love and there is something just so ridiculously romantic about that, that I think we just can't get enough of it when ah , it's always, yeah, it's just, it's so like take the hot of it and then like change everything else. But then people still come like they come back to that, you know, that basic idea. Yeah. No for sure. And, and also with Romeo and Juliet, it said built intention, right ? Like even though they are on warring size, these opposite sides and yes, of course, with , with the play, we know how it ends. We know it's a tragedy , uh, but something about watching love get chosen. That's still something kind of hopeful about that. Yes, absolutely. So when you decided, okay, you know, you're doing a Romeo and Juliet retelling, but as you were saying, you didn't just want to go back to the play. You wanted to do something very different and you succeeded. It is, it is well still very much being a Romeo and Juliet retelling. So talk to me about kind of about your decision-making process as far as what to keep from the original and what to change and how far to push it beyond that, you know , original skeleton of the story. I think this definitely like developed a lot, like through the writing process. I think when it first started , um, I almost stuck closer to the original like plot, like Shakespeare's plot because, so I started already with like a whole different setting and like a new cast of characters and everything. So I did already like stop quite far moved from the original play. Um, but the first few like iterations, like I still remembered a lot of the scenes I tried to like keep in or , um, a lot of the original like narrative arc, like the way that , um, like some certain events would follow certain other events, some characters would do some certain things. Um, they still follow like the original quite closely. And then the more I revised it and the more I was like working with my agent on it, it kind of like became clear that if I stuck too closely to it, it kind of , um, it kinda missed with the story. I was trying to tell, because like, in doing the retelling, like while I am trying to get at like Shakespeare's original ideas about like love and hate loyalty and family, I think by the time I was like, recontextualizing it like into like 1920s , Shanghai there came out like all the points that I was trying to make as well, like in this time period, like , because there were so many more nuances when the context changed that it didn't like fit quite right anymore to stick so closely to the retailing . So I really had to like sit down and think like, well , what am I actually trying to like, take from the play and what can I like kind of discord . And I feel like that I was kind of, there was definitely like some angst thing. Cause I was like, is it still a retelling if I ditched like so much? And like, it's actually, it's actually really funny because I remember I was thinking about like the cinder series. I was like, well, look, where's the mind did it. You can retell it and change a lot. It's still a really good retelling. So like, I was like, okay, I think I can ditch the plot stuff. I think dropping Easter eggs and dropping the ideas absolutely makes every telling as well. And I'm just gonna like go from that and try and tell my story instead of like trying to like, you know, adapt too much or like make some point out of it. But you know, the heart of it was what really mattered.
Speaker 2I love that you bring up Easter eggs because I, you know, I'm certainly not like a Romeo and Juliet scholar or anything, but I have read the plan number of times and there , you know , there were a few things that I picked up throughout the text and I was like,
Speaker 3Oh, I know where she's getting this from .
Speaker 2Are there any Easter eggs that you were like, particularly proud of or that you think like, okay, this is, this blind here is really for the Romeo and Juliet fans.
Speaker 3Yeah. There were definitely a few lines that I pulled directly from the play. But then I like the rest of the conversation flowed well enough that if someone hadn't read the play, they wouldn't know that it was a line , but if someone had read the play, that'd be like, Oh my God. She said that, I think it's , it's quite near the end when , um, Juliet has the line. Indeed. I'd never shall be satisfied, which is directly aligned from the play. But when she says it in the book, like the context is different. Like she doesn't actually mean what the original Juliet meant. So like, there are a lot of instances of that when I would pluck lines. And I just thought it would be really funny because like people who identified it would be like, Oh, that's interesting. That's not what it meant originally, but okay .
Speaker 2Yeah. No, I think that as a writer, those little things that we can put in, even if like nobody else ever comments on it, if it never makes it into a review, like I guess yeah .
Speaker 3So much enjoy putting better exactly .
Speaker 2Pick up on while I was reading it. And then it wasn't until a couple of days later where I had like a moment where it clicked for me that it double meaning was. And I don't know if you quoted it directly in the book, but you do use the line or , uh , idea
Speaker 3Of the line, a plague on both your houses, which is of course a very famous line from the play. And then later I was thinking, wait, play
Speaker 2It's it's the sickness it's, you know, I'm dying to know
Speaker 3Was the sickness, the monster subplot element that comes forth and really become such a huge part of this retelling , was that
Speaker 2Aspired by the line, a plague on both your houses or is it
Speaker 3Just, that just happened to be very serendipitous? It's actually really funny because initially it was definitely a coincidence kind of. So I, the way that like I mushed the mumps deployed with Romeo and Juliet was kind of like, I, I just, for some reason I always seem to write about contagion. I don't know why. I think it's because like, there's something so interesting about like when the stakes of a book are about people like falling sick or dying, like one by one, because then there's like a certain sense of danger. And I think that's just kind of the way that I initially approached, like what I find interesting in a story and like what will start driving the characters forward. Um, but then the more I like wrote, and the more like the drop was kind of coming into shape, like, I didn't realize that there was a double meaning with like a plague on both your houses. And then I sort of like leans more into that once I realized it. So it was like, because like the sickness and the contagion, it's kind of, it's very linked with like the ideas of like colonialism and imperialism. So then like, you know, a plague on both your houses, like in Shakespeare, like in his like dramatic approach was like, you know, you're gonna destroy each other. So that was kind of also like what I was getting at too. So, you know, the more I kind of realized that it works and it could parallel , okay , I guess that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 2No , it worked really well. It was
Speaker 3Really , I find it to be really quite brilliant in a way that you weren't able to weave the monster slash contagion plot into it because,
Speaker 2You know , on one hand on the offset , you hear Romeo and Juliet with them
Speaker 3A monster. I mean, it seems like a bit of a stretch , but it really worked and really drove the plot in a way that made it so unique and interesting. And also I have like a really morbid fascination with parasites just in general.
Speaker 2So there's also ,
Speaker 3There's something so interesting about them. Like,
Speaker 2No, and there was a
Speaker 3Scott Westerfeld book years and years ago, what was , I think it was called Pete . Um, and it wasn't his vampire book, but in which the vampires were being created by a parasite, it was like taking over people's brains. And that book just like launched this curiosity for me about parasites real-world parasites. And when you start digging , there is weird stuff out there. It's very CYA . Is that book like that ? I was thinking about that book for like weeks on end after I read it. It was just something so like, eerie about it. Like Paris really are. No, I know . And there was some of the facts that he sprinkled into that book, but I'll still pull up at cocktail parties. Like, do you know this totally bizarre? So why 1920 Shanghai? I think so. I , um, my family is all from Shanghai, so I had already like known like a lot about it and I'd already had a lot of like, what's the word? Like exposure to the history and like a vague sense of like, sort of what was going on. And I'm also like, I also really love 1920s. Like I've been obsessed the 1920s ever since I read the dividers. And then I've always been like looking for like more 1920s, like, you know , media to consume, but like, I'll like the divine is , does it very well, like it has a lot of social commentary, but then there are a lot of like all the pieces out the , well , especially if they go to 1920s in Asia, it feels very much like the political and like the colonial context will kind of be like brushed under the rug. And I was always very much like where, why , like, if you're going to write about the 1920s, like you've got to write about this. So the more I got like , um, I don't want to say the word mad because that sounds too like too strong, a word of mad. The more I got mad about that, I was like, yeah, that's a good word. Yeah. Yeah. The more I got like disgruntled about that, the more I was like, Oh, maybe I could write a story in that time. So like, when I got the idea for like blood feud and like gangsters , I was like, there were like true gangsters running 1920s, Shanghai in history. There was a lot of like tension between , um, like the foreigners who were coming in, like, because of like Imperial conquest. And there was a lot of like, you know, conflicts going on. So maybe this would be interesting for the story that I'm trying to tell. So then it kind of just mushed together. Well, I thought it was brilliant. One of my favorite things is when an author can turn, take a setting in this case, you know, Shanghai in this city and almost turn it into a character on its own. Right. And I would say this book has that in spades. Uh , and there's so much depth. Um , it's just, the setting is bursting with tension and not just between these two rival gangs. Um, but then there's, you're talking about classism and political affiliations and , and culture, and you know, this divide between East and West and I mean, all of these things that really come together and made it very complex and very interesting. So when you were writing, I mean, is that something that you were trying to accomplish as far as making the city almost take on a life of its own? Or like, what was, what were you trying to accomplish with it? Oh, absolutely. I , I love it as well. Like when the settings feel like characters, I feel like some of my most favorite books have like, such a tangible, like sense of place or like the world just feels so like fully fleshed out. Like that was definitely something that was, it's like all my like writerly agenda. Like I can't write anything without knowing like how the world works, because it's just so interesting to me, like how backdrop can really influence like the story and the characters and not just be like, you know, the place where everything happens. Like it can really like play a role into it. So there are like, there are certain parts of the book where it switches into almost like a omniscient kind of like narration. And it's like looking just on the city, like completely detached to any like main characters. And those sections were like the ones that I had the most fun writing, because it felt so like , um, it felt like I could really like delve into the world that was here and I probably couldn't have like , kept it up with a whole booklet. I had to write the whole book in complete omission voice without any main characters. I would get some word , but like, just to have like a few hair, like really backing up the story was like, even though it was a minor kind of thing, like it felt so like, it was just so fun to write. Yeah.
Speaker 2Well it , like I said, it was one of my favorites
Speaker 3Parts of this book and, and I felt like there was just
Speaker 2Enough of it. Like these are wonderful
Speaker 3Descriptions. And then, okay. Now back to the story , um , I mean, I felt like I was there , um, and you really painted such a lush picture. And to me , um, I got a lot of, so two of my like writing idols are Libra go and Laney Taylor.
Speaker 2And I got kind of a
Speaker 3Vibe of that, like just the richness of language , uh, which I admire so much. So my hat is off to you. I think you did such a fabulous job constructing this city. I just loved it. Oh my God. I need to lie down there, like my idols as well.
Speaker 2I know . Um , what's your ,
Speaker 3The search process like? Ooh, my research process was, so it was kind of a mix between , um, so before like the world was in a pandemic, I would kind of , um, I was in Shanghai. Like I usually go like once a year, once every two years because , um, a lot of my family is still there. So like during my summers between school, like I either go home to New Zealand or I like just go to Shanghai and like chill for a month or so. So like, it would kind of be like on the ground research, almost like, you know, familiarizing myself with like the LEDs and all of that. But that was kind of just like, like just my everyday, like going around kind of like doubled as research in a sense. Um, like even though the city is like , obviously very, very different now because it's the 21st century. Um, there's still like a certain sense of , um, like place and like the way that it kind of functions like as a, like, almost like an entity it's still, it's still kind of has that spirit. So I guess kind of like being in Shanghai, like even 21st century Shanghai was kind of like atmosphere research. Um, but then like on the other hand I also needed like the historical part of it, which was very much just like me going to the library and like just flipping through all of the 1920s, like China books , um, which a lot of it, I didn't actually end up using because like there was just so much information and then I wouldn't like write in like a few paragraphs of like something I found really cool. And then my agent would be like, so we don't want this to read like a textbook. And I was like, you know what, you're really right. We got to take this out . A lot of it didn't like make it like all in. Um, but I feel like the historical research has , I did, like, if I knew it , it kind of helped like color the world that I was writing, even if like little facts that I really, really cool. It was cool. Didn't make it. Yeah ,
Speaker 2No, that's, I think that's so legitimate. And I know, I feel that way all the time where you get so involved in
Speaker 3Your research and, you know, with any luck you're researching something that truly fascinates you. And so you just dig deeper and deeper and deeper. Uh, and then,
Speaker 2Like you say, like just this one line makes it into the book. You can know you could fill an entire book about this one thing. So one thing that has been coming up in this podcast a lot and talking to different authors, you know, here we are , uh , what is this like eight months into the pandemic. Uh, and I feel like a lot of us are having different reactions creatively to the pandemic, to quarantine , uh , and just kind of how we're responding to it. So for you, how do you feel like your writing has been going here in 2020? That's a good question. I think that
Speaker 3My writing has like in general terms, it's just about been the same too . Um, like my output CRE pandemic. Um, but that's not to say, like, it comes very easily. Like I feel like because of how the world is , um, I'm inside a lot more. So I do have, like, it seems like more time to do writing, but because we're all inside, like, I feel like my sense of the day and like my stance of my schedule just gets so muddled because like back when, like we can go outside, we can go to like the Starbucks. I would order my day to be like, you know, before hours I'll go to Starbucks, I'll do my schoolwork and then I'll take an hour break and I'll go hang out with friends. And then I'll like go to another coffee store and I'll write and then I'll come home and then I'll just do my readings. Like, it's, it used to feel so separated from each other. So then I could really keep everything on track, but innocence dependent, it gets almost felt like writing gets mixed into everything. Like, I'd be like, well, I'm sitting here on my bed for the whole day anyway. So like, I'll switch to Twitter and then I'll do writing and then, Oh, wait, I have an assignment in June and then, Oh, wait, I didn't finish my workout . Like, it felt very, like, it's all very like stirred in a big, like culture of productivity. So I think that's the way that my writing has changed, but I've definitely had to force myself to like keep writing or else my publish [inaudible] .
Speaker 2Yeah . No. And it's, I mean, I am so impressed. I mean, this is a big book , um, and I I'm, I'm making the assumption that book two will also be pretty sizable . And for you to also be doing college at the same time, I mean, that's kind of a lot going on. You're just like, yeah, that's just my life. That's just how it's going to be like. Yeah, no, that's impressive though. And I know a lot of young writers, you know, whether they're in high school or college now , um, are going to hear that you have your, your debut book coming out here and your senior year of college. And I'm sure that will be just incredibly inspiring because it really is a huge accomplishment.
Speaker 3No, but thank you for, for , you know , talking about your process this year. I feel like it's one of those things where when the pandemic hit, everyone was like, cool. I have all this free time. Just imagine all the stuff that I'll get done and kind of learns the reality of like when all of your habits and your normal data changes. And then you throw on like a lot of anxiety, normal things you thought you were going to accomplish may not be getting done. And so I've just been so fascinated to hear from different authors as to how, how people are conquering this and how we're, you know, muddling through. Yeah . You have any advice for somebody who maybe is still in school and trying to get their degree, but also trying to work on a book at the same time. Ooh . I think the first or two things, the first thing is that I think it needs to be like, it needs to be said that like, everyone has really different like publishing journeys. So like, I'll hire a lot of times, like people get panicked if they haven't like, you know, published a book or like on an agent, like while they're in school, because like they see like all the people who've done it and they're like, well, I should have done it as well. So me
Speaker 2Panicked and [inaudible] , and that's the thing,
Speaker 3Like , it's absolutely amazing if there are people up there who want to get published and they're ready to get published, but I also think it's so important to see that, like it's not for everyone and for a lot of people, like they, like, they do have to, to like this like life first and publish them will always be there. Like publishing is ready when they're ready. Um, which I think is just so important to emphasize because otherwise, like, you know, or like panic becomes like this like self perpetuating cycle, cause you're like, Oh no, why don't I published it? And then like the Pedic feeds the writing and then the writing like feeds and not being able to publish yet. So that's, that's the first thing. Um, so for people who do think they're ready and who do think that, you know , they can handle it as this like time in their life. I think the number one thing is definitely like, be like to keep it careful eye on like time management. I feel like if you can handle like time management at this point in life where like so much is going on, like you can definitely like, you know, get all your stuff together to like write a book and study at the same time, like query a book and study at the same time, publish a book and study at the same time. Um, I think as long as all of that is something that, you know, they think is manageable for them at that time. Absolutely doable. Now I think that that was all really sound advice.
Speaker 2Um , and one thing like , and I'm not joking, like when I was in college and wasn't published yet, I completely felt like, like my life is over. Why am I not published it ? You know , 20 years old? And I'm like, Oh please Marissa . But I , I do for people to, to know that it , it doesn't happen on a schedule, you know, it's it's process and part of the journey. Um, okay, Chloe, we are going to wrap this up now with our happy writer, lightening round. Ooh. And I feel like I need to start calling it something different cause nobody ever treats it like a lightning round. Um , I'm going to start getting different titles, but for
Speaker 3Today, wander around.
Speaker 2Ooh, I like that. All right . First up. What book makes you?
Speaker 3Ooh . Oh my God. That's just , that's such a hard
Speaker 2Question. There are
Speaker 3So many , um, I think my comfort reads definitely make me the most happy. So that's stuff like, Oh, does it have to be only one book? Can I
Speaker 2Let's stop as many as you would like.
Speaker 3Okay . My comfort books, the books that live in my head, literally rent free. Um, I think daughter of smoking bone is definitely high up there . Um, I know there's so many, but every time I have to list books, I just completely blank out. Um, exactly.
Speaker 2Know what you mean?
Speaker 3Scanning my shelves. I think renegades makes me happy.
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 3Um, it's just , it's just how many times have I rewritten now? Too many.
Speaker 2Thank you. That was a perfect answer. Moving on. What do you do to celebrate an accomplishment?
Speaker 3Ooh, I, I eat chocolate, I think . Yeah. That's about it. I , I'm not, I'm not a very like Salvatore person. I feel like I don't really like go to like extremes. I'm very much like keep quietly happy and Bosc and my happiness,
Speaker 2We said for being quietly happy. Yeah . How do you feel the creative way?
Speaker 3Ooh, definitely by like consuming , um, other like creative works . Like I read a lot , um, because I'm , I I'm such a fast Rita now after like, I don't know how it happened, but I mean, I've been reading like Yia specifically, like since I was 12. So because back then I like threw through books so quickly. My reading speed is like kind of insane. Like I will finish a book in like two hours. So like, I am such a slow reader . It's very much been like a thing that I think I've trained myself into doing. And it's not even like, I'm skim reading at all. Like I take it like everything. It's just my eyes somehow move really fast. So like, anytime I feel like de-motivated, I'll just like, I'll pick up a new book and I'll just sit down, I'll read it in one sitting and then I'll really like, feel the world. And then I'll be in spite of what advice would you give to help someone become a happier writer? Ooh, that's an interesting question. I think, to keep your eyes on your own page, because I think comparison, what does the same , like comparison is the thief of joy? And I think that's the saying , I think as long as you're happy, like telling your own stories and like focusing on what you can do rather than seeing like, Oh, like this person and their books are doing this and this person and their books have achieved this. Um, I think really focusing on your own goals as a writer will really help like make the whole process happy. Lastly, where can people find you? Ooh , people can find me. I am at the Chloe gong on Twitter, on Instagram, on TechTalk. I think that's everything. And I'm also www dot [inaudible] dot com. Excellent. Chloe , thank you so much for joining me today. Yay. Thank you for having me readers. Be sure to check out these violent delights, which is out now. Of course, we always encourage you to support your local indie bookstore. Again , you can also check out our affiliate store at books.org/shop/for as a Meyer . If you're enjoying these conversations, I would love if you subscribed and helped me spread the word to other readers and writers, you can find us on Instagram at copy writer podcast until next time stay healthy and cozy in your bunkers and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling
Speaker 1[inaudible] .