Marissa chats with Kara McDowell about her holiday-themed YA romance - ONE WAY OR ANOTHER - as well as the challenges and potential pay-offs of ignoring outside pressures in order to write what you love; working with two opposing plotlines, and some strategies for keeping readers engaged in each one; creating love interests that complement the protagonist using a character-development method from John Truby's "The Anatomy of Story"; and how we tend to be happier writers when we focus on our own accomplishments and avoid making comparisons to others (even if that is easier said than done).
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa chats with Kara McDowell about her holiday-themed YA romance - ONE WAY OR ANOTHER - as well as the challenges and potential pay-offs of ignoring outside pressures in order to write what you love; working with two opposing plotlines, and some strategies for keeping readers engaged in each one; creating love interests that complement the protagonist using a character-development method from John Truby's "The Anatomy of Story"; and how we tend to be happier writers when we focus on our own accomplishments and avoid making comparisons to others (even if that is easier said than done).
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Copy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books, to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I'm your host, Marissa Meyer. Thanks so much for joining me. I warned you guys that there was going to be a lot of holiday themed things making me happy this month, and that shall continue. The thing that has been making me happy lately is good. Old fashioned eggnog. I know people have a love, hate relationship with eggnog, but I think it is absolutely delicious. And I look forward to when I finally see it in the store cases every year. And I just think it's, it's one of the best creamy, sweet and delicious holiday things that makes me really, really joyful. Um, I did try making my own last year. I don't know if any of you guys have ever tried it. It was a humongous fail. It did not turn out at all. So I'm going back to just plain old store bought this this month. Um, but that is okay because it is so good and that's making me happy. And of course I am so happy to be talking to today's guest. She's the author of the Y a contemporary just for clicks as well as her newest holiday themed romance one way or another, which came out this past October. Please. Welcome Kara McDowell. Hi, thank you for having me. My pleasure. I'm so excited to talk to you and to be able to talk holidays and Christmas and all things winter with you today. It is the perfect time of year for this book. I know it's finally here. I feel like this year has just been so long and hard in so many different ways and I'm just ready to go all in on holiday stuff. Oh my gosh. Me too. I saw a Christmas tree in somebody's window, like two weeks before Thanksgiving this year. And I was like, Oh my gosh, people are really we're ready. People are ready to start early this year. All we need is some Christmas joy. It's true. I've been playing Christmas music since well, before Thanksgiving and happy to do it. I hear you. I'm usually very strict with myself that like no Christmas music, no Christmas movies, no decorations until after Thanksgiving. And this year I caved, I caved and started watching my hallmark movies and doing all the things before Thanksgiving. And you know what, I'm okay with it. The more Christmas, the better this year. Yep. Anything to bring a little joy. Exactly, exactly. Um, and on that note, your book one way or another brought me so much joy. I absolutely loved it. Um, readers and listeners will know how much I love hallmark holiday movies. And this book just felt like reading a really hallmark holiday movie. So it was exactly what I needed. Thank you for writing it. Why don't we see so much? Why don't we start with you telling listeners what is one way or another about?
Speaker 3:Sure. So one way or another is about 17 year old Paige and she really struggles to make decisions. Um, she actually has severe undiagnosed anxiety at the beginning of the novel. Um, she doesn't know she has it, but she struggles to make decisions because she's always kind of spiraling and thinking about the worst case scenario or she's worried that she's going to miss out on something great. If she chooses the wrong decision. So at the beginning of the book, she's given the opportunity to spend her Christmas break, um, either exploring New York city for the first time with her mom and she really wants to travel the world. And so, you know, going to a new city is amazing for her. I mean, an amazing opportunity. Um, but she also gets the opportunity to go to a snowy mountain cabin with her best friend who fits who she is, uh, secretly been in love with for years. So she is having the hardest time deciding what to do. Um, and then fate kind of steps in and she slips and falls and bumps her head and the book splits into two timelines. So we get to see what happens if she goes to New York and what happens if she goes to the cabin. Um, and you know, we get to see where she finds her happy ending
Speaker 2:And it is so cute. So cute. Um, you know, I mentioned that it kind of felt like reading a hallmark holiday movie and it's like, even better than that though, because you really take like all of the beloved tropes, right? There's the cute best friend, but there's also the mysterious new guy and then there's ice skating and baking and you throw in a snow storm and the power outage. And there's just like everything that you want to just wrap yourself in, in this time of year. Um, so it all just like crammed into one delicious story. So my first question for you is why specifically, why the holidays, like this is a, this idea of having two choices and going off in either direction and following two different love plots could potentially take place anytime of year. So what was it that you wanted to really turn it into a winter holiday love story?
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, so like you said, this could technically take place at any time of year. And when I started writing it, the idea for a holiday story was not the first thing that came to me. I had the other idea first. Um, and then I just, at the time I had my first book had just released with a small publisher and I had left my agent and I was just struggling with a lot of different things. And I had tried to write another book to make my then agent happy. And it wasn't the book I wanted to write, but I was like, she wanted a thriller. So I was trying to write a thriller and my heart wasn't really in it. Um, and so then after I left her, I was like, okay, this is my chance where I can just write the exact book I want to read. So I'm going to cram every single thing I love into this book, um, which is how it got all those cans and all the different things. And so then I wrote, and you know, I love Christmas, like you said, hallmark movies. I just wanted the book to feel so happy and joyful. Um, so I wrote it as a holiday book. And then as I was nearing the end, I got really scared that maybe a holiday book wouldn't sell or was too niche. And I was getting in my head again. I was like, no, one's gonna want a Christmas book that I don't know. It just felt maybe too specific. Um, but then I just had to reign myself back and I'm like, no, if I love it, then hopefully other people will love it too. So I really was just trying to put everything I love into one book.
Speaker 2:I love that you say that because we spend a lot of time on this podcast talking about how important it is to write what you love and what you're excited about. And, you know, that is something that you hear sometimes where an author will feel some pressure, whether it's from their readers or their agent or their publisher to do a specific sort of thing. And I, I love that you, you kind of took a left turn and were like, but I really want to do this and I'm going to go out on limb and do it. And it sounds like that paid off.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It definitely felt scary at the time. Um, so I guess this would have been 2018 that I was writing the book. And so actually now that I'm thinking about it, my first book hadn't come out yet. So I left my, my previous agent before my first book even came out. So everything was just really uncertain and up in the air. Um, but yeah, like you said, it paid off and I'm really, really happy with the final, uh, story and readers seem to be liking it. So it's been a really good experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's, it's really, I am, of course spend a lot of time reminding people like love what you do and you are your first audience. You have to have that passion and that joy. Um, but it can be really, really hard to, to follow those instincts when you have a lot of other voices, you know, coming at you and a lot of other suggestions and the market and you know, what do other people expect from me? Um, it can be, it can be nerve wracking to take that risk.
Speaker 3:Totally. And yeah, that's always my advice now for writers and it, you know, it can sound so cliche or try to say, write what you love, but I think you really do have to start with something that you are excited and passionate about, or it's just, it's probably not going to be the story that you're hoping it is. Yeah,
Speaker 2:For sure. So all of these wonderful, happy holiday tropes in this book, do you have a personal favorite romantic trope or holiday trope, like as, as a reader or as a consumer of, of romance, what do you love?
Speaker 3:So I definitely love best friends to lovers, which you see in this story with a and Fitz, and she's had a crush on him for years and, um, fits is kind of dated. It feels like every other girl except page, you know, he is a romantic at heart and he is making grand romantic gestures for all these other girls. Um, he was raised by parents who are a little bit older. He needs three much older sisters. So he was kind of raised on nineties romcoms that I really love. Um, so that was fun to write in there. And yeah, so, you know, I love when two characters have been best friends for a long time and then go to something more. Um, and then as far as wintery kind of romantic tropes, you know, I'm such a sucker for the power going out and it's cold and there's a blizzard and Oh, no, we have to snuggle.
Speaker 2:Oh dear. Oh, what are we going to do? Travesty.
Speaker 3:Yes. I was able to sneak a little bit of that in there too in a fun way. So that was a really fun scene to write.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Do you, were there any tropes that you tried to squeeze into this, but you just couldn't make work?
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a good question. Um, I don't know. I feel like I kind of, it's kind of jam packed full, you know, we have the mistletoe scene where they're under the mistletoe and are they going to kiss? So I got that one in there. Um, there's a broken elevator over in the New York timeline, which I was lucky enough to be able to keep in there. So I don't
Speaker 2:Car crash. You end up in a hospital at one point, like a checklist, but at the same time, it doesn't read like a checklist. Like it all reads very naturally. But as a writer, I was reading the book and thinking, Oh, she got this one too. Oh, she also included this
Speaker 3:Somehow. I think the reason, the way that that happened is because I knew that I wanted the book to be alternating chapters. So we do one chapter in fate, one in New York. And then we go over and do the next chapter and fate two, which is at the cabin. And I never wanted the reader to feel like, Oh no, we have to go back to New York now. Or, Oh, I don't want to go back to the cabin. So I wanted both timelines in each chapter to be like, as adventurous and romantic as possible. So it kind of felt like just like upping the ante, like every single time so that you always be excited for what was coming next.
Speaker 2:I love that you bring that up because I definitely wanted to talk to you about your approach to that and having these two, you know, simultaneous, but very different plot lines that you you're bouncing back and forth between. And as I was reading it, it would like be every chapter I would just get so involved in this story and like, I need to know what happens. You're constantly ending these chapters on really mean cliffhangers. And then, Oh, now we're back in New York. Oh, now we're back over in the cabin. And I like every single time I would be like, girl, but no, what happens? Do they kiss? Do they, you know, what's going to happen. But then after a few paragraphs, I was like, Oh yeah, no, I was actually really enjoying this plot line. I actually really need to know what's happening here too. And it was just constant this back and forth. So yeah. So tell me, like, what was your, I mean, you kind of already talked about how you were trying to constantly up the stakes and, and keep each plotline engaging. How worried were you that readers would gravitate toward one or the other and, you know, not be as, as hooked into one storyline over the other.
Speaker 3:I was definitely worried about it because I actually wrote the timeline separately. So I wrote the cabin timeline first, which is labeled as fate two in the book. Um, so I wrote her adventure with fits at the cabin and when I was done, I really loved it. And then I got scared because I was like, Oh no, what's going to happen in New York. Like, how am I going to love New York as much as I love the cabin storyline. And, you know, I was worried that readers would feel the same way. So I actually took maybe a month off of writing because I was just discouraged and nervous. Um, and then I just went back and decided, you know, I love this story. I love the idea of it. So I'm going to keep going. And once I jumped in and started writing New York, I was just smitten. I wrote that one in maybe two or three weeks. And after that, I went through and spliced the chapters together. Um, but there's also the thing too, when it's hard to know if I should label this book as a love triangle book or not, because there are two love interests, but they're, you know, in different worlds almost. Um, but I was nervous that maybe readers would respond really positively, you know, to fit and then not Harrison or the other way around. But luckily I feel like most people have their favorite, but they can see what page sees in the other character too. So it's not like a total obvious, uh, Y you know, sometimes with love triangles, it's like, well, Def she should definitely be with this person. Why is she even entertaining the idea of this other guy? Um, so I try to have my love interests and my boys separate, like, have completely
Speaker 4:Different personalities and they challenge page in different ways. But, um, you can see what's lovable about both of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, absolutely. What is your process for creating the love interest? Because they really are so different, but also both so lovable. And I will admit I, when it comes to love triangles, I am usually very decisive over who I prefer. And in this book, it was a question Mark for me. And I honestly did not know who she was going to end up with. I thought maybe she just keeps going off on these two, these two paths for the rest of her life and has two happy endings. I don't know. Um, I did not have any idea how you were gonna, you know, bring it together at the end. So, so for you writing, talk to me about writing romances and coming up with the love interest, what are you looking for? What's your process there?
Speaker 4:So this book I was really helped by it's a craft book called the anatomy of story by John Truby and that's right.
Speaker 2:Bring that down. Be a nap story. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Okay. I recommend it to everybody. I was not a plotter or an outliner or, you know, I didn't really read craft books before I found this one. Um, but then it helped so much. So what I did was I started with Paige and, you know, as a character, she has bad anxiety and she has trouble making decisions. Um, and so I, you know, created her character and the premise, you know, her personality is really baked into the premise of the story, which is deciding between two different decisions. And then what I tried to do. So then I created my love interests in ways that would compliment page, but also challenge her, um, because what the anatomy of story talks about is how in a love story, the love interest is actually your characters, main opponent and what they both, they both want the same thing, but they go about it in different ways. So for example, Paige and fits are both really interested in falling in love and being happy and having a happy ending, but the way pay, um, fits goes about it is he dates a lot of people and he does a lot of grand romantic gestures. And he just puts his heart out there, time and time again. And that ends up with a lot of broken heart, but, you know, that's the way he knows how to do a best, but then Paige is in love with fence. And the way she deals with that is bobbles all her feelings up inside and, you know, keeps them to herself and is afraid to let them out. So that brings like a natural tension between the two characters, because they both want the same thing. They both just want to be happy and in love, but their approach to it is so different. And that's where I think a lot of the tension comes between them because it's hard for her to understand why he's continually after these other girls and not her. And it's hard for him to understand, you know, if maybe she did have feelings for him, why isn't she more open?
Speaker 2:Hmm. So I don't know if that makes sense. No, it makes perfect sense. And I love that way of thinking about it that each person in this couple are essentially wanting the same thing, but then are at such odds with how to get there because it kind of, it creates that natural tension while at the same time, it making it clear to the reader, like, but they, they do belong together and there is
Speaker 4:The potential for happiness here. Exactly. And then on the other side in New York, Harrison, he's more, you know, kind of pretentious and sarcastic and surly and he's a freshman. Um, and Y you, and he's like a philosophy major. So he's like, you know, all into himself and thinking he's really smart with his philosophy. One-on-one telling
Speaker 2:Him, I have
Speaker 4:Such a soft spot for Harrison and I love him, but when page first need him first meets him, you know, there's that definite, you know, where she's not understanding what he's all about. Um, but what I think they both have some of the same fears where they're, you know, afraid of, you know, maybe decisions or how things are going to play out. But so her response is to, you know, avoid making decisions at all possible because she says, she just doesn't want the responsibility. If something goes wrong, she would rather have it have been someone else's choice. Whereas Harrison kind of comes out it from a point of view. He's like, well, if we're going to regret things and things are going to go wrong, like we may as well do whatever we want while we have the opportunity. So again, there's the similarities between them, but then there's the, there are different ways of approaching it that, you know, kind of brings that tension.
Speaker 2:So I have to know, did you know the ending when you started writing or was that exploratory for you?
Speaker 4:I definitely knew the ending.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Were you ever in the writing of it? Did you ever question and think, well, maybe, maybe I'll go this other way instead. Like, did that ever seem like a possibility because it has, like I was saying as a reader, I was really like, I have no idea.
Speaker 4:Um, yeah, I think so. I definitely, so she ends up obviously without spoiling it too much, she ends up with one of these boys, but as I was writing, I was falling more in love with one of them than I thought I would. And yeah. So, you know, there was definite questions there and actually when the books sold, um, it went to auction. And so I had conversations with several different editors and one of the editors wanted a different ending. He wanted to see page and with the other boy.
Speaker 2:Oh, interesting. So
Speaker 4:We had a phone call about that and she wanted to know my opinion. And at the time, you know, it's hard to know like how things are going to shake out with the different publishers and with the different interests. And I like to always keep a really open mind when it comes to edits. So then I started to outline and, you know, ask myself, is there a different ending here I could be happy with? Um, but ultimately I decided, no, the original one I wanted was kind of what was in my heart.
Speaker 2:No. And it's, it's important, I think both to be open-minded to edits, but also to follow your heart and to follow your instincts, you know, as, as the writer, we have an idea of what's right. For the story and what's right for the characters and, and it's really important to listen to those voices.
Speaker 4:Yes. I think I'm getting better at that do longer. I'm, you know, the more experienced I get working with editors, but I do, I, there's very little in my writing that I'm like super precious about. And if someone thinks something's not working, I can usually find a way to rework it or change it. But yeah, when it comes to the love interest and the happily ever after, I'm kind of going to be a stickler on that.
Speaker 2:Right? No, I have an idea. I know who the soulmate is made for each other. There's no one else. Oh, that's great. Um, okay. I do. I definitely want to talk about, uh, in this book, there is a huge mental health component. Um, and you've talked about it already a little bit that Paige, our protagonist, uh, has very severe anxiety, lots of trouble making decisions, and that's not just a part of her character that really makes her so relatable, but at the same time, it also becomes this thing driving the plot forward. And why does he, she have these two separate plot lines because she can't make a choice. She can't decide on which to do. Um, and then it just becomes this, this ongoing thing where her inability to make decisions, you know, is affecting things throughout the plot, throughout the story. Um, so talk to me a little bit about, uh, where this came from, you know, why, why did you want to create this character, uh, and kind of what was your strategy for that?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so page's anxiety and her struggles are very closely mirror to mine. Um, and the way my anxiety manifests. So she's really close to my heart. A lot of the experiences or the feelings, thoughts, you know, kind of symptoms when she's having a panic attack in the book, I pulled directly from my own life. Um, so that's where that came. You know, where her character kind of came from. But originally I had this idea of a character who is bad at making decisions. So she kind of turns her fate over to a magic eight ball. That was the original idea for the book. Um, and then I was asking myself, why would she be bad at making decisions? And, you know, it kind of just came down to a personal and like, well, why am I bad at making decisions? Why is that something that's interesting to me? Like, why would I want to write a whole book about this? Um, and it really is because of my anxiety. And I think, especially in those late teen years, when there are so many choices in front of you and everything feels so high stakes, and it's like, your life can go in so many different directions and it can feel really overwhelming and scary, um, just because you don't want to choose wrong. Um, or like Paige is really worried about sending her life in the wrong direction and something terrible happening or missing something. Great. Um, so that was how I sort of came to the place where I knew I wanted to write this character who had anxiety and how that was all like wrapped up in the plot of the book. But another thing that was important to me about page's anxiety is that she didn't know she had it at the start of the book. Um, because I think that's a really realistic experience because nobody is born knowing that they have a mental health challenge. And that was realistic for me, like all through my teens and early twenties is that, you know, I wasn't sure, I knew that my brain handled things a little different than other people, but I didn't necessarily know that there were options out there for getting help or for coping, um, or that there were terms I could use to describe myself and to get help from, you know, doctors or therapists or whoever. So I really kind of wanted to write a discovery story of her, figuring out, you know, that she has anxiety and then finding ways that she can help herself. Um, and then in that, I still wanted to find a way to keep the story really, um, joyful and happy and romantic because I, you know, anyone with any sort of mental health challenge deserves a happy ending, just as much as anyone else. So I wanted to deal with her anxiety, but also just send her on like the most grand romantic adventure that I could, um, just, you know, so people with anxiety or depression or any of these other challenges can maybe relate to the book and then just feel happy about, you know, where their life could take them.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No, well, nailed it. I think. Yeah, no, I think it's so important to show and, and you're right at that age in particular, I mean, the decisions facing you as a teenager and as you're starting to consider your future and life at large, I mean, it's difficult enough for somebody who maybe doesn't struggle with anxiety, but to throw that on top of it, I mean, you can see how it would just leave you stunned and like you can't can't do anything and you brought that to life so well in this character, um, while also giving her such a lovely, lovely story. So I do, I totally want to ask about the magic eight ball. Um, and now that I know that you yourself, you know, have this very personal conviction with Paige, have you ever tried this strategy of using the magic eight ball to make your decisions for you? Because I think it's kind of brilliant.
Speaker 4:I know I have not because I'm too scared that something bad would happen. Sounds genius. And I think if there had been, because they, she uses an app on her phone, which is, you know, these things exist. And I think if I'd had an app like that as a teenager, I might have been tempted to just, you know, for a day, try it and see what happens. Um, but sadly I have not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I, I will confess, I downloaded one after reading this stuff because I thought like, I, I feel like I am frequently overcome with like decision fatigue, like not necessarily anxiety, but I just get so tired, especially with kids and parenting. And like, can I have this treat? Can I have this treat? Like, did you eat your vegetables today? Have you brushed your teeth yet? Did you do all the things you were supposed to do? Can I say yes, can I, should I say no? I mean, it's just constant decisions. And so I downloaded this app thinking, Oh, this is it. I'm just going to let it, leave it up to fate. And the very first time I went to use it, I felt more anxiety over giving up that control of making the decision than actually making the decision. So I don't think it's going to work out for me, but I kind of love the idea.
Speaker 4:I know I, yes, that is how I feel. Is that the, yes, the idea of what could come from it, you know, like you said, maybe my kids just end up eating nothing, but being here for the next three days, like that gives me kind of a pit in my stomach.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly. I do think it would be kind of a fun publicity stunt though.
Speaker 4:I know I had all these dreams and ideas of things I would do. And then 2020 kind of happened and none of that
Speaker 2:Cash tag, 2020 happened. Okay. Speaking of 2020, that is a perfect segue. Because one thing that I have been wanting to ask, all of the authors that I've been talking to lately is 2020, and this year it is what it is. Um, and we all seem to be coping with it in, in different yet similar ways. And I, I feel like I've talked to the authors who, uh, as a result of being stuck at home and they just want to like produce and write as much as they can. And that's where they're putting this, this energy. And then some of them, some of us are just like, no, I can't do anything and I don't want to. And that's okay. So for you, like where are you falling? How has 2020, uh, been as far as your writing and your creativity, uh, and what would you say to, to listeners who are maybe struggling to get some writing done this year?
Speaker 4:Uh, so I think I have fallen in various times. You know, sometimes I am in that I cannot do anything camp. Like, it is just enough to homeschool my kids and feed us and keep us all alive. And that takes so much mental energy that it feels like there's not a lot of time for anything else. Um, but on the other hand, I wrote an entire book this summer and sold it. And I really felt like I feel the pressure. I don't want to say the pressure to produce, but writing this book this summer was kind of like the only bright spot and a lot of bad news. So it definitely was a welcome and a much needed escape to, you know, just go, be able to open my laptop and go back to these characters that I love so much. Um, and I actually have listened to a bunch of your episodes. And so I know I'm going to be repeating something that some of the most recent authors have also said, but I really felt the pull to kind of, um, widen my, I don't know how to say it to write in more genres or categories than I currently am. I've only ever written WIA books before. Um, but you know, I've really felt interested in maybe writing an adult book or, you know, I've had some ideas for fantasy and I just, I don't know what it is that it's making me more curious because when I started, I was like, Oh, I'm going to write WIA forever. And now I'm only three books in and I'm like, yeah, I probably will write why forever, but I also want to write a bunch of things. So I don't know what that is, but
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I don't know what that is either, but you're right. I'm feeling that. And a lot of guests that I've talked to are feeling that and wanting to test out different, different areas of writing different types of creativity. And yeah, I don't know where it's coming from, but I am just fascinated by that and how that seems to be really common this year. Um, and, and how so many of us are embracing it? Like, why the heck not? I know.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah. Who like, who knows what's going to happen? So you may as well, if you can find something that brings you like some happiness or joy, like go after it and see what happens.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. Okay. Kara, we are going to now wrap this up with our happy writer. Oh, that's right. I was supposed to brainstorm titles. We're not supposed to call it the lightning round anymore. Um, hold on. Let's call it a good lightning round. Let's call it the, uh, Oh gosh, I don't know. I'm bad at titles. So someone recently suggested the happy writer thunder round, which will that confuse people very ominous. Like, yeah, it does. It does. You're right, right now it doesn't really seem to fit the brand of whatever. We're wrapping it up with our standard. All right. First up, what book makes you happy?
Speaker 4:So I knew you were going to ask me this and I've been brainstorming all morning, what I wanted to say. And I think one of the more recent books that I've read this year that brought me a lot of happiness is called the bridge kingdom by Danielle L. Jensen. Do you know it? I don't. Okay. So it's an adult fantasy. Um, but it really has a wide feel to it. I think in that, you know, it's really like fast paced and just the characters are amazing and the romances it's kind of a fantasy romance. Um, and it's just, it is so good. And I was glued to the page of the whole time. I'm having a hard time concentrating a lot to Sierra as I'm sure other people are too, but this one I just raced through and then I bought the sequel immediately and it's on my Kindle and I'm just like kind of holding onto and saving it for a time when I like really need a distraction. So I can't wait to read the next one.
Speaker 2:What is your favorite winter holiday activity? Oh,
Speaker 4:Um, so I'm gonna steal a little bit from my book. The polar express train that Paige and Fitz go on is a real thing. And I've taken my kids every year, probably for the last five years we go up North it's in the mountains. We ride a train, there's usually snow outside and they, um, give us hot chocolate and cookies and they read the polar express story. And then Santa comes on the train to see the kids. And this is the first year. We're not going to be able to do it, obviously because of COVID. So, you know, I'm trying to think of replacements, but it's just such a fun, um, family cozy activity. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, that sounds like, that sounds amazing. I love that. What do you do to celebrate an accomplishment?
Speaker 4:So I'm so bad at this. I don't do enough. I know I don't do enough. Usually my husband and I will get, take out or does like fancy dessert from somewhere and that's it. But the best I ever did was after I sold one way or another, which takes place, you know, half the book is in New York. And I had never been to New York when I wrote it. I was a little bit like page with stars in my eyes about the city. Um, so after the book sold, my husband and I went and we'd been married. We've been married about 10 years now, and we've never had a trip together without kids. So last year we went to New York. Um, it was our first trip away. I got to do like see all the places that page sees. And I got to meet my agent and editor and it was just amazing. So as soon as you know, it's safe again, and restrictions are lifted and we can travel safely. I'm hoping to celebrate, you know, my next book with another trip. That
Speaker 2:It's a great, great idea. I love that. I want to steal that. It's just going to travel every time I write a book,
Speaker 4:It wasn't wonderful. And honestly, we deserve it writing
Speaker 2:And what excellent motivator
Speaker 4:To write. And so now my husband's like, well, you have to set your next book in Europe or something. That way you have to go there as research. I'm like you are onto something. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I totally know the book I'm working on right now. Um, kind of bounces around to various countries. And I'm like, I kind of wonder if this is my subconscious, just trying to encourage me to go and research elsewhere in the world,
Speaker 4:Especially at a time where we're all kind of stuck inside, you got to do it.
Speaker 2:How do you fill the creative? Will
Speaker 4:I take a lot of breaks? I'm not one of those, right? When I'm drafting something, I write every day, but when I'm not, I don't. So I will frequently take, you know, two to three weeks off and not write anything. And I will watch a lot of TV with my husband. We'll watch a lot of Netflix, binge a show, or, and I will read a lot of books and it doesn't have to be a why a book, just anything that keeps me intrigued, um, makes me excited to tell stories.
Speaker 2:Nice. Would you give to help someone become a happier writer?
Speaker 4:Ooh. So I'll reiterate what we talked about at the beginning, which is finding something that you really love about the project and focusing on that. Um, and beyond that, I don't know, it sounds silly to say eyes on your own paper, but the longer I've been around in publishing, which by the way has only a couple of years, is how I realized you really need to focus on your own journey and not compare yourself to other people. And even as I'm saying it, it sounds impossible. Cause I do it constantly. I'm definitely much happier when I focus on where I am now versus where I was
Speaker 2:Two, three or five years ago, instead of looking at the people around me. Right, right. No, that makes so much sense. And uh, I know that it's, it's impossible not to like feel that twinge of envy. It's like, Oh, that person, you know, won this award or they have a movie coming out or whatever. Like it's impossible to not feel that, but it really is so much better for her own wellbeing. If we can focus on our own accomplishments and, and where our journey is headed. Yeah. Again, if you can't do it, I understand. I have a hard time doing it too, but it's what I'm striving for. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's very human. Lastly. Where can people find you? Um, so I am on Twitter and Instagram. I kind of jump back and forth. Sometimes I'm really active on one platform and sometimes the other, but I do enjoy them both. So on Instagram, I'm at Kara J McDowell books. Um, it's a lot of selfies and book pictures and recipes because I'm a Baker. So I'll put those things up there. And then on Twitter, I'm at Kara J McDowell. Um, and then my website is just Kara, Jay mcdowell.com. Awesome. Kara, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you. I had such a good time chatting with you readers. Be sure to check out one way or another, which is available now. Of course, we always encourage you to support your local indie bookstore if you can. But if you don't have a local indie, you can also check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marissa Meyer. If you're enjoying these conversations, we would love it. If you subscribe and please help us spread the word to other readers and writers, you can find us on Instagram at Marissa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy and cozy in your bunkers and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling a little
Speaker 1:[inaudible].