Marissa chats with L.L. McKinney about her Nightmare-Verse Trilogy, as well as the fun and frustrations of including word play and puns in your writing; using video games to inspire epic fight scenes; Elle's upcoming Jane Eyre retelling and the mind-boggling amount of research that goes into writing historical fiction; some advice on what to do when your editor leaves or your publisher closes (hint: focus on what you can control, not what you can't); and lots of Sailor Moon fangirling!
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa chats with L.L. McKinney about her Nightmare-Verse Trilogy, as well as the fun and frustrations of including word play and puns in your writing; using video games to inspire epic fight scenes; Elle's upcoming Jane Eyre retelling and the mind-boggling amount of research that goes into writing historical fiction; some advice on what to do when your editor leaves or your publisher closes (hint: focus on what you can control, not what you can't); and lots of Sailor Moon fangirling!
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books, to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I'm your host, Marissa Maya. Thanks so much for joining me. This is going to be our last episode of 2020 is I will be taking off the rest of December to focus on the holidays and my family, uh, and also writing because it turns out I have a book due at the end of January, that is nowhere close to done. So I am going to be getting lots of writing done, but we will be back in January. We already have some awesome guests lined up for next year that I am super excited about. So stay tuned for more. The thing that is making me happy today, continuing the Christmas theme, all things Christmas are making me happy. And lately it has been@seaetsy.com because you know, shopping has to happen. And we're probably not going to be spending a whole lot of time out in the world, shopping this year. Um, and so I've rediscovered a love of Etsy and I'm just so grateful for all of the super talented people that are on that website, selling their, their homemade items. Um, and I think it's going to be a very crafty Christmas this year. It'll be a little different, but I'm excited. And of course I am so happy to be talking to today's guest. She's the author of the DC graphic novel Nubia real one, and as a contributor to Marvel's black widow, bad blood serial audio book series, as well as the anthologies of Phoenix. First must burn color outside the lines and Wonderland. She is also the author of the nightmare verse series, which currently includes a blade so black and a dream. So dark the third book of the series, a crown. So cursed will be coming out in 2021. Please welcome L L McKinney.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2:I am so happy to have you. How is life in your bunker treating you
Speaker 3:My bunker? Uh, it consists of right now, uh, scrambling to meet some of those deadlines. Um, so I can try and have, you know, time around the holidays off towards the end of the year. And persona five has currently consumed my entire soul. Um, usually video games do that for me. So that's how life has been in my bunker is late nights trying to write and cussing out boss fights on my own.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been a long time since I cussed out a boss that just affects so much nostalgia
Speaker 3:Riding a bike, you will honestly just slip right back in,
Speaker 2:Do it just floods right back. It really does heart splashbacks
Speaker 3:Oh my God.
Speaker 2:Well, good luck with the deadline. Um, I know how you feel does the season, um, why don't we start with telling listeners what is your nightmare verse series about?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. So the nightmare verse, uh, both asks and answers the question. What if Buffy fell down the rabbit hole instead of Alice, where there's a black teenage girl who lives in Atlanta and her after-school job is crossing into the realm of dreams, known as Wonderland in order to hunt and kill creatures called nightmares, which are physical manifestations of humidity's fears and terrors and bad emotions and things like that. Um, while, you know, dealing with her mom and her friends and just trying to live life. And, uh, I like to call it a Wonderland re-imagining instead of a retelling, cause it doesn't necessarily follow those story beats, but you do see a lot of familiar faces and characters and concepts, you know, and I, I really enjoy it. So that's essentially the nightmare verse series.
Speaker 2:So this series, it combines two of my most favorite things, one being Alice in Wonderland and the other being sailor moon. Uh, so I really, can we just talk about sailor moon for a little bit? Absolutely. Yes we can. I assume you have to be a fan, right? You couldn't write this character. If you weren't also a fan.
Speaker 3:I am a ridiculously huge fan. Like sailor moon was my first introduction to anime before I even knew what anime was.
Speaker 2:I love it. I cannot tell you how excited I was when I picked up the first book of blades. So black and in the very first we, we meet Alice and she's, you know, she's going through some stuff clearly. However, before all these things were happening, she had been on her way to animate convention and she's still wearing the sailor Fuku and the wig. And I was like, is she is, she is a Mooney wearing that dress,
Speaker 3:Uh, that she's wearing sailor moons outfits. And then there's a point in the book where she goes to a costume party and she dresses his princess serenity. So she very much is a fan just like me. Um,
Speaker 2:I love it. I have also dressed up as sailor, moon and princess heredity. So I was immediately very attached to this character and that costume party and chess is like clearly dressed up as tuxedo mask. And she used so oblivious, like readers catch on to
Speaker 3:Cause he's taking most of it off. Right? Well, not most of it, but he's taken off enough of it that it could be any other costume if she knew what he had taken off. Right. But yes, he did. He asked her what she was going at. If he researched it, he made a costume to compliment hers. And it's honestly the sweetest thing. And I feel so bad for him in that scene
Speaker 2:Had a conflict. Right. I know, but it is truly like that moment was all of my teenage fantasies. Like this is the boy, what do you do? Or sorry, not athletes. What are you doing? I'm also to blame for that. So that's a good point.
Speaker 3:Um, but yeah, it's almost peppered throughout this entire, but, but her dressing and cosplaying as the characters is honestly my favorite part.
Speaker 2:I loved it. I loved it. The, the, yeah, it just really made my heart swell. Um, do you, I mean, do you have a fan fiction background, clearly a fandom background, but did you write fanfic
Speaker 3:Kind of yes. Um, so they didn't know what fanfic was, but my oldest childhood friend who we've been friends since like the eighth grade and we met because of sailor moon, it was, I think it was the end of the eighth grade year were both in orchestra. This was the only class we had together really. And I see her across the room because we're not playing instruments. It's like the last week we're done, there are no classes, there are no concerts to get ready for. And she's got something, I think it was a, uh, a, a binder where you could like put pictures down at the front, cause it was a plastic. So you could put whatever you wanted in there. And it was family moon. So I crossed the room to her and very quietly because eighth grade ELL was ridiculously shy. And I asked her, you like sailor moon too. And she says, yes. And we have been inseparable ever since was sailor moon. So what we would do is we would call each other after school and we would talk back and forth as we plotted out and wrote sailor moon fanfic together on the phone, on the landline because cell phones, weren't a thing which would irritate my grandparents and her parents to know in this is what we're delivering. Not only do they have to hear us, but the phone line is tied up because we're just talking for hours. So yeah, that's kind of what I did. Fanfic wise. I never like posted any of my fanfic. I did write some what I did do. And I kind of talked about it on Twitter a little bit is, um, I would play like RP where you would go into like the Yahoo chat rooms and pretend to be a fight and, you know, have whatever, you know, story conflicts and so forth. And so on how I met some of my other friends, um, yeah. Back when it was dangerous to meet people on them.
Speaker 2:Oh, back in the old days,
Speaker 3:The olden days before, it was a thing that you were just expected to do, get online and find your family. Um, but I fanfic, wasn't hardcore upon it, but the fandom and things around fanfic. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, me too. I mean, I, I, I did, I wrote a ton of fan fiction and posted it, uh, and also met a ton of friends. People I'm still really close to through the fandom and like credit it hugely with, I dunno, keeping me sane through my teenage years, just in general. Um, okay. Thank you for indulging. Now we can talk about your books.
Speaker 3:I mean, I'm happy to indulge concerning sailor, moon and anime for hours at a time. So literally no problem.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it. Okay. The first thing I want to talk about with the blade, so black and the nightmare verse is character development because obviously a lot of characters are inspired by Wonderland characters, um, you know, Lewis, Carroll characters, but they're all so unique and interesting. And I just fell in love with every single one of them. Uh, the tweetables are probably my favorite, but it's a really hard choice to make. Um, so take me through your process in taking some of these characters with very well-known attributes, you know, beloved characters and then putting your own spin on them.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So Alice, actually, no, I don't think Alice was the first to show up the more I think about it. Cause it was, it was very close. Um, I think actually Addison had a popped up first.
Speaker 2:Love him. Um, yeah,
Speaker 3:My version of the Manhattan, he popped up and she was a very close second, so much so that I'm fairly certain that they showed up together. But part of me is convinced that he was around maybe a split second beforehand, like two or three days as I'm messing around with this concept. And the two of them are there and immediately I can kind of sense their dynamic. Um, he irritates her to no end, but it's that fun sort of irritation that you get out of, you know, these types of dynamics. Um, and they're on assignment together and this scene actually ends up making it into the book somewhat. And she's annoyed because he has suggested she used herself as bait and it works. So he's a genius, but she's also irritated at him because this is what's happening. And everybody else in the pub where he crosses into Wonderland with her, it's called the looking glass and then in Wonderland as well, start to arise from this scene that I've drawn with their dynamic. So Maddie, who's the character, my version of the door mouse. Uh, who's the bartender who's falling asleep half the time. Um, she's the one who shows up next because she's how, you know, they heal when they get back. And then Alice can't be by herself. So the tweetables show up and they, I try and think of where they came from. I'm not 110% sure, but they were there. And they're the only characters that I didn't have to go back and tweak really. They like their dynamic with her and with themselves. I think that's what makes it work is their dynamics with each other. They're almost a singular character, but they're so different that they're also two different. I don't know, I'm probably talking in circles, but I don't know how else to explain how like the twiddles are one entity, but also D and M are their own people. So everything sort of arose around people interacting with Alice and Hatta and their relationship and how they interact with each other. Um, which was an interesting way to sort of build this world because Alice was literally the focal point. And so if it didn't have anything to do with her, even though I might know it in the back of my head, it never really came forward on the page. Um, just because it's not something that would come up organically, like, so, so that's kind of how I was able to build these characters is they were built first off on a relationship and then their relationship to that relationship. Once again, if that makes sense, you think I would be better at using words since I know do this writing thing, but talking is not my forte. So I hope
Speaker 2:Though, cause I, I think that it is one of those things where we can ask questions like this and you know, obviously I'm asked questions and I'm also interviewed a lot of authors. Um, like you can ask the question, like how do you come up with characters? And it is incredibly difficult thing to try to pin down and be like, uh, how does my brain function? I'm not sure
Speaker 3:Because like I grew people in my head, I don't know what else to tell you. They were seeds. And I watered them carefully like flowers in animal crossing. And here we are. Um, but that that's, it was the relationships is what I focused on, who they were as characters revealed themselves and came out of the focus, being their relationships to each other and with themselves because Alice has something of a tenuous relationship with herself and her self esteem, um, particularly in the beginning. So that, that was the, the foundation. Yeah. And I love that you bring in the muchness,
Speaker 2:Uh, which is of course a Lewis Carroll thing. And you know, Alison Wonderland talks about the muchness. Um, but it really, it makes for a great, you know, kind of an analogy for self-esteem and how it's, you know, believing in yourself even when you don't really believe in yourself. Like, I don't know the way that it's worded in the book is really clever. And I think applies to a lot of teenagers.
Speaker 3:It's that part of, I remember wanting Alice's strength to literally be how she feels about herself so that while other people may impact it, because as much as we want to try and say, you know, stuff, other people says doesn't bother me. It doesn't affect me in any way. That's something that happens with practice. You don't just show up like that. Don't let anybody lie to you. We'll tell you different. So this idea of her self esteem, herself worth being what literally makes her weapons sharp enough to kill these creatures is something I wanted to get across and muchness just, you can just slap that in there. It fits perfectly. So what it says in the book is that it's that part of you that believes in yourself, even when the rest of you, doesn't because there's always going to be some small voice and we lock it out and we tell it, we don't listen to it. Even when it's trying its best, teeny tiny to reach out to us and tell us that the other voices are wrong about what they're saying. Um, we're wrong about what we're thinking and that small part, I don't think ever fully gets snuffed out. It can be tamped all the way down like this, a pixel left and this little picture of who you are in your own mind, but it's always there cause it can't go away. Cause it is you. So that's what the muchness is. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I particularly loved just all of the, the word play, um, which of course again, hearkens to Lewis Carroll, and it's not easy to do. And I know that, um, but there's so much of it. There's so many little puns and little jokes and thing, like a character named chess and a character named court and which took me a while to get, and I was like, Oh, I get it. That's what it's Derrick. And like little things like that, that have all of these, these great double meanings, uh, was that, does that sort of thing come naturally to you? Or was that something that you were working on in like long into revisions, trying to be like, okay, how do I get more wordplay? How do I jazz this up? Some,
Speaker 3:Some of it, I don't, I don't think it came naturally, but the story that I was trying to tell, just lended itself to it super well, um, because the world was so far removed from the original that these words just popping up, made more sense than if I was trying to follow the plot of the original Alice in Wonderland. So having chests pop-up having Courtney or court pop-up or Madeline and had a, um, different pieces here and there was easy to do in the sense that I didn't have to fight against the original narrative. I still had to go in and find places. Cause I'm like, well, if I name a person Louis, or like, these are just extraneous characters that you're just throwing them in and you're giving the names and that signals to the reader that they're important, you know, beyond like a cameo, Oh, Alice has two cats. I love cats. I'll give her cats. And so that's how we get Louis and Carol and they show up and I believe they sh I think they show up in book two.
Speaker 2:I think
Speaker 3:They show up in books.
Speaker 2:There's a lot happening there.
Speaker 3:It it's stuff like that. That honestly getting his name in. There was one of the harder things I had to think about because I had the names, like, I didn't want to name a place and I didn't want to name characters. And so her cats after the fact that was like, wow, like way to go. Well, it took you forever, but you know, cause hindsight's 2020, but now yeah, it took a minute. So on the one hand naturally, yes. On the other hand, not at all.
Speaker 2:I know. I, I love Maddie, uh, who is a poet quote, unquote poet, um, which in Wonderland, I'm just kinda like a push-ins maker, but like one of the effects of her magic is that she talks just an utter nonsense, um, which is just so delicious. And as a reader, I loved it. I love her dialogue. But as a writer, I kept thinking this would be such a headache to write dialogue like this because on one hand it makes no sense whatsoever. But on the other hand, it's sort of does, like, it's still a sort of relevant, like, was she really fun character? Or were you like kicking yourself halfway through? Like, why did I do this to myself? Both.
Speaker 3:Cause she's, it was fun because a lot of her dialogue really is just nonsense words strung together. But then there are parts and I'm, I hope that the egg, they come through, uh, where she tries really, really hard to be understood by people who aren't from Wonderland and, and, um, cause otherwise she has to like take this potion that will, for lack of a better term, straighten out her speech patterns, but it's temporary and it hurts like hell. So she doesn't like doing it. And she only does it in like extreme circumstances when communication is vital. Um, and cause, but also she usually has had an around who just, he doesn't really translate, but he does like, cause he'll have conversation with her and you'll just be speaking, you know, playing English while she's speaking in riddle ish I guess. And Alice is able to keep up via the context of his side of the conversation.
Speaker 2:Right. And the reader too. Yes. Moments when he's not around. She's just,
Speaker 3:I literally like part of the plot called for that potion to straighten out her, her speaking tendencies. But also me I'm like done. I can't say anymore. She has to speak, not to speak like a normal human being. I can't, I can't do it. Yeah,
Speaker 2:No. I was thinking, cause in that, that scene where she has to like tell Alice a lot of really important stuff, I was like, I see why you, you had this potion because to convey all of this and her normal speak, Oh man,
Speaker 3:It would have been it especially cause had it, isn't there to act as mediator and translator. It would have been, I don't know, I would have thrown my laptop against the wall and called it a day. So yes I did cheat and yes, it was a plot point of convenience, but also it literally is what would have happened in that moment. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No, it works. And you've established this character has this ability with potions and it all, it don't make sense. It was, it wasn't cheap that worked. Yes. We're allowed. Um, okay. The last thing I wanted to ask specifically about this series is fight scenes because there are a ton of them. And I know for me, I have also written a lot of fight scenes and yet I still feel like they are sort of my nemesis. So, but your, your bio scenes are so great and powerful. So, you know, how do you do it? What's what's your secret or what's your strategy?
Speaker 3:My a strategy. Um, well I have four sisters and I would just be like, Hey, come here a second. Like if I want to figure something out,
Speaker 2:That's one way to do that.
Speaker 3:I didn't do it, but I also, I will go and I will watch my favorite fight scenes from movies or TV shows or I'll replay, fight scenes on video games that I like. And um, cause I am a chronic saver. So I have a save file for every video game before every major bus fight. Cause I'm always scared. I mess something up. So I always just save it on the little track below it. So there's like 80 saves for one play through and people are like, I can't play the game cause there's no space.
Speaker 2:Well it's me alone.
Speaker 3:So I'll go and I'll play the video game. And for the video game for me, I'll pause and make note of what I'm thinking in that moment. Like, do I have to Dodge around the creature? Can I see, is, is it the person or whoever I'm fighting or whatever I'm fighting? Is it telegraphing that it's going to do this move next? You know? Um, did I have to look that up on Google or was it something that I naturally saw? So working through video game fights and cranking them up to, you know, hard max level, um, sort of puts me in the mindset of the person who is having the fight. Cause I still have to plan through my moves, even though I'm not physically there fighting, you know, this huge dragon, but then I'm also hearkening back to the D E O days of Yahoo chatrooms. I used to spend a lot of time fighting in there. Um, not like fighting how we fight on Twitter, but
Speaker 2:Like finding
Speaker 3:Out fight scenes. Like here I am playing as, I don't know, sailor Uranus or something and I'm fighting inner Yasha. I don't know how it works. It just does. And so I have to not only taking into account that person's actions, but then write my own. So I cut my teeth on fight scenes without really realizing it. So, so that's kind of how I do fight scenes is I watch fight scenes. I enjoy, um, I watched fight scenes that I don't enjoy and I notate the reasons why I don't enjoy them and I try to avoid that. And then I play video games so that I'm as close as I can be without breaking umpteen million laws, start body slamming people in the streets. Um, I mean you could, but it wouldn't go well.
Speaker 2:So that's how I get not recommended probably best not to.
Speaker 3:And we get bored in the corn times, but don't don't know that one.
Speaker 2:Um, okay. I, when I was stalking you on your website, getting ready for this interview, notice that you are writing a Jane Eyre retelling. Yes. Talk about it because I just got really super excited.
Speaker 3:Talk about it to the best of what I can say thus far, because that is something that, um, I turned in recently. So we still got to go through edits and all that good stuff because 20, 20
Speaker 2:Everything. Um, but
Speaker 3:It is essentially a retailing where Jane sees Rochester for the Creek that he is, um, while she's there with, you know, teaching Adele and learning the ways of the house and everything that's going on and all the, you know, sneaky things and fires starting and all this sort of stuff. And on the flip side, birth is up in the attic and he's trying to get out like, so she's setting things on fire and breaking it like, cause it's taking like silverware over time when meals are brought to her and digging through wall holes in her closet. So the next room, so she can leave, like this is what she's doing. And Jane is kind of hearing this. And so they ended up meeting and um, falling for each other and conspiring against yield, uh, Edward to get out of Dodge. So that's, that is the retelling as much as I can say, without giving away too much, but that is it is that these two girls, um, take down this, this dude who I have no love for,
Speaker 2:I didn't do it together.
Speaker 3:They're so sweet. I I'm super into it cause they kind of fall for each other via writing secret messages back and forth to each other. Cause they can't just like stand there and talk to each other. Right. So, so that's what it is, is, you know, um, they managed to get messages back to each other and it's just not necessarily whirlwind cause it takes a little bit of time, but that's how they, they tell each other things that each other has been thinking about their own past and what led them to be in here. And now
Speaker 2:It's so sweet and I love it. I love it too. What a brilliant twist on that story? Is it historical because it's set in the same time period or is it modern life,
Speaker 3:Same time period. It set in the same places. Cause there's multiple places. It's we get to see a lot of things. Um, I have, um, interactions between them. I introduce new characters it's it has been a journey. Um, the first time I'm doing a legitimate retelling or I kind of follow as much of the plot as I can while completely Rochester and Jane falling in love. And meanwhile, she's just kind of like he's infatuated with her, of course. And she's like, uh,
Speaker 2:Go
Speaker 3:So it's it's fun.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. I love it. Was it really hard switching to historical? I thought it was
Speaker 3:Was um, Oh, I thought he would be it wasn't but it was because there was a once upon a time I said on Twitter that I would never write historical fiction because I don't like research, sorry school has put me of research entirely unless it's, you know, like fun stuff like dragons and magic and you know, I'll chemical properties for potions and things like that. Um, but then this happened and I'm like, I guess I'm right in a historical now. So the main thing that was hard for me was there's no magic, no fantasy whatsoever. It's the first time I've ever accomplished that. I'm very proud of myself because I'll be writing and it's like, Oh, there's a vampire, I guess, I don't know easier. Now let's go. But I couldn't do that with this as much as I would've liked.
Speaker 2:Yes. Trying to, to write without magic. It's like, but, but where do the obstacles come from?
Speaker 3:There's so much. I can't, I respect people who do contemporary or historical who have no fantastical elements whatsoever because this is, this is literally the first time I've managed it.
Speaker 2:And also amid all the research.
Speaker 3:Yes. So much research on Victorian bathrooms are not a thing that I thought I would ever have to look up, but here I am, six YouTube videos, deep and 95 tabs on Chrome. And all I know is that people used to accidentally boil themselves. Like I walk away with. So it's just like, this is so much, we're just going to avoid mentioning the bathroom because nobody's here for that.
Speaker 2:That's there you go. That's that's a good sign. No, I, I completely admire people who write historical fiction. I wrote one, uh, like a short story for an anthology that was historical fiction. And for that one story, I think I researched for like two straight months, I was like, how could you do this for an entire novel?
Speaker 3:Literally it changes everything. I'm fairly certain that YouTube thought I was a different person entirely by the end of the day. It completely screwed up my recommendations on that home page for a good three weeks after I was done. So.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well it sounds amazing. I so excited. Do you have a release date for it?
Speaker 3:I believe it's fall 20, 22. Don't quote me on it. Um, so I'm a ways away million dates in my head and everything is just amalgamous right now because of, you know,
Speaker 2:Right. But everything shifting around, um, on that note, I did want to talk a little bit of industry with you, um, because I didn't realize until I was, uh, again, preparing for this interview that you were published or your series as published by imprint, um, which is an imprint of Macmillan and they just very recently re uh, announced that they were going to be closing. Um, and I know that that's kind of this new scary thing that's happening in the industry. Um, and I know a lot of aspiring authors hear stories like this and it's like that, that roller coaster of publishing and all of the scary things that can happen. Um, so I'd love to just kind of get your take on, you know, how, how things are happening with you. How are you feeling? Um, just any, any insider info that that listeners might appreciate? Yeah,
Speaker 3:Sure. Um, so before this happened, I, the editor who acquired a blade, so black is not the editor who worked on a dream. So dark, um, Rhoda, who was my original editor. She ended up, uh, moving on to a different position before the first book even came out. So I had sort of this taste of what happens in publishing often enough where editors move, you know, cause the jobs and whatnot. So I guess that kind of was a stepping stone up to this. Um, so I had already experienced this point in time where writer friends are like talking me off the edge. Right. And I'm emailing people and I'm telling people I'm like, so here's the deal. I don't want to sound how
Speaker 2:In a sound, but I absolutely mean how it's going to sound,
Speaker 3:But I am mildly terrified that I'm going to get a white woman working on mine, literally what went through because there was so much that Rhoda took on so that I didn't have to particularly doing copy edits. Right. So that was the big, Oh, no moment. Um, and it kind of somewhat prepared me for this because at this point it was okay, I'm going to get another editor. Well, I've already established the tone and everything for this story. There is an understanding with, you know, marketing and publicity and everybody, no matter who I get, that this is how the stories go. This is how my process with these stories go. So I'm good. Now comes finding out where I'm going to land, because what you're scared of is you don't want to end up being somebody's project because it was given to them that they wanted it. And, but I was extremely blessed that there was an editor, uh, within Macmillan who was like, I, I want, I want those and her please. Thank you. Um, so somebody requested, they wanted the books, like as soon as they find out that they were like, yeah, those are mine now I'll fight you for them. Um, so it was, it was, um, the best case in a bad scenario, I think, because I have definitely heard where people have gone to a new imprint or a new editor and they do get treated like something that was just shoved in an inbox. And because this person didn't need, so this is extra work. These people have to do now. And they didn't, it's not something that they wholeheartedly believe in it's because it's their job, you know? So, um, it was a lot, but I think the transitions that happened prior and also, um, the editor who worked on book two before imprint shuttered went to another publisher. So twice I hadn't been orphaned, that news sort of came on the curtails of that news. So I hadn't really like the dull of one, just sort of edged into the other, the pain of the hit of the thing of one pain, just sort of dulled into the other. So it never really just stopped so tumultuous, but like there's no choice, but to go forward, like you feel what you feel and then you make a plan, which is why I'm you, you always want to make sure that the agent that you pick is an agent who is there for your career because this, while it was about books was a very much career heavy issue that we had to talk through and make a plan for and come up, you know, strategize on. Okay. So these are the next moves. I was able to focus on tangibly, what do I do next? I will wallow in despair later, tangibly, what do I do next? So that, that was, that was how that got handled. It was not a good situation by any means, but having the right people in my corner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's really excellent advice. I think, to kind of focus on what you can do, um, because the re I mean, no one ever talks about it really, but it does happen all the time where editors leave or imprints close or publishers close or publishers get bought out. I mean, it's a part of the industry and a part of, you know, the fact of a lot of careers. And yeah, the only thing that you can do is focus on yourself and your writing and the books and keep moving forward.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Like stuff ends up happening. Things get like the schedule for stuff has gotten shifted. It shifted as a result. Right. Cause you have to spend time, um, adjusting to the new norm as it were, people have to adjust their schedules. You have to get on somebody else's schedule. They have to get on yours. And when it finally settles, it's sort of like, okay, well now we have to come up with the schedule for us together and that's not going to be at all what the previous schedule looked because you know, I'm being, even though somebody asks for me, I'm still being slotted in, on somebody else's timetable. I wasn't there originally. And I would be upset if I was an author who was with someone originally and somebody else for better or worse got dumped in their lap. And that is, that messed me up. Right. I feel that it's a, my take was, I don't want to, I don't want this to affect other people more than it absolutely necessarily has to. So stuff got moved. You mentioned the beast.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And you also, you don't want your book to just be, you know, crammed in with all of the other things that this person has on their list or that this publicist is trying to promote them. And there's only so many hours in the day. Yeah.
Speaker 3:There's so much air in the room when it comes to certain things. And so if it, people are always like, Oh, so is it a bad thing? If a date gets moved or pushed and it's like, it might feel like it, but at the end of the day, it gives you breathing room and it gives you a chance to regroup and to potentially, you know, have more space for you and yours. Um, so I, I try and look for the silver linings in these types of situations.
Speaker 2:Right? No, I think that's a great way to think about it, for sure. Uh, and I'm happy to hear that you are continuing with McMillan and that there's an editor that was so excited to pick you up because why wouldn't they?
Speaker 3:It was, I don't know. I was surprised, but I don't know why that I was like, Oh,
Speaker 2:That much you needed. You're much Snus.
Speaker 3:I did. It was like, I, I didn't not expect it, but to hear it, it's just, you know, when somebody comes along and they give you a compliment and you didn't expect the compliment, it's not that you didn't believe the compliment about yourself. Like, you didn't believe that you were this or that, but just to hear somebody say it out loud, somebody who's not related to you. As a matter of fact, it's not your mom, you know, go in your mind. Number one, whatever. Totally unprovoked this happened. That's always a nice view.
Speaker 2:No, definitely. I hear ya.
Speaker 3:Okay. Uh,
Speaker 2:On that note, we are going to close this out with our happy writer bonus round. It was formally the lightening round, but nobody ever treated it as a lightening round. So as of this episode, I'm changing it to the bonus round. Okay. First question. Why is a Raven like a writing desk?
Speaker 3:Because writing desks are nests. That one.
Speaker 2:That's a good answer.
Speaker 3:I've given this much thought
Speaker 2:Either. This is going to like, she's going to hate me for this question or she's going to have an answer. Okay. Um, sorry. Now onto the actual questions. What book makes you happy
Speaker 3:Right now? Um, there's so many, um, the book that makes me happy right now is legend born by Tracy D.
Speaker 2:That was so good. She was on the podcast by the way, for people who haven't heard her episode. So good. It's so good.
Speaker 3:Not participated in shipping Wars since the last Airbender and this brought it all back.
Speaker 2:Okay. Can I ask, will you, will you confess, who are you shipping for? Oh, I am.
Speaker 3:I love them both, but if I had to make the choice, like, no, you have to pick a one and he can be a close too, but he's still too.
Speaker 2:I love them both I'll as, as, yeah. I just want a happy ending for her, but yeah, I'm ready. Crystal went to, okay. What do you do to celebrate an accomplishment? Um,
Speaker 3:Honestly I probably pop open a bottle of wine, um, especially now, cause I can't go out and celebrate, but I used to do this thing where I would take my, uh, parents and my sisters and we would go to a big dinner and we would just be in this backroom and be loud and happy and just having fun. Um, so that's what I used to love to do to celebrate, um, anything essentially, or I get on a video game and I beat up a boss
Speaker 2:One or the other big family dinner, beating up, people send me say, how do you feel the creative? Well,
Speaker 3:Once again, beating up, I like to, um, I'll watch TV or watch movies or play video games. And it's usually something I've already seen or played just because there's something about settling to something that's familiar to you,
Speaker 2:Um,
Speaker 3:That you don't have to sort of pay attention to for lack of a better way to put it. So, so that's what refills my well is just stuff that I enjoyed before I was a writer and it's stuff that I still enjoy now. So it kind of helps maintain that balance.
Speaker 2:What advice would you give to help someone become a happier writer? Um,
Speaker 3:Deadlines are definitely there for a reason, but the world is not going to fall apart if you miss them.
Speaker 2:Mm, that is good. And I needed to hear that thing.
Speaker 3:I got to follow it, but I, another thing that I've said on Twitter is I just turned in and this was last week. I think I just turned in something super late and you know what, world's still spinning. It'll get there when it get there. I'm not about to jeopardize my health, um, in order to meet a deadline. And I would hope that people who knew me, um, and worked with me wouldn't want me to do that either. So the world will still be there after you hit send late. Or if you don't hit send on time, it'll be okay. I promise
Speaker 2:No, that is such good advice. I, for like my first, I think four novels, I was early like months ahead of deadline with them. And I just felt like, Oh, I'm just so good at this. This is how my career is always going to go. And then it didn't happen for the next number of books and with the panic, the panic set in. So it's so good to hear that reminder that it's really going to be okay.
Speaker 3:It really, really is. And like I recently moved this summer and if you pay attention to me on Twitter, then you already know what's been happening, but I have this thing and both editors can tell you where starting with book two, whenever I was going to turn in a major revision or a draft, my apartment building would catch on fire.
Speaker 2:It literally wasn't
Speaker 3:It's really might have to, someone upstairs would catch something on fire and the result would be a small, like blackout within the building or in this case, the last time is everything floods and you have to move. Um, and the result of not, you know, the power would go out. So I couldn't access, but that's top. So it's just sitting there and I can't do anything with it, or my desktop would get shorted out and I have to send it to be repaired or my laptop would get wet. And so I kept like fires would happen, install the work for at least a month, every single time. So I'm really certain that my, well, this was the old editor I'm going to have to let the new editor kind of know what's going on, where it's like, yeah. If I'm like, just, just, just assume it was a literal natural disaster. Cause I'm usually on time. But if it's something major.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. But those are all like really legitimate excuses.
Speaker 3:So this year it was a lot of, no, I didn't, especially this summer, like this June and July, I had to tell a couple of editors. Like I literally, it's just been a week of the world thing that they hate black people and I just haven't done anything. So I'm just, just understand you get it like two weeks. Yeah,
Speaker 2:Yeah. No one can be blamed for 2020. We're all going to be late next year. Editors.
Speaker 3:Exactly. So at this point, just I know that you're going to think you're bothering your editor or that you're making their job harder or that you somehow are being a problem. If you ask for more time, you are not. Please ask for more time.
Speaker 2:No. Great, great advice. Well lastly, where can people find you
Speaker 3:Twitter mostly? Um, cause I'm able to send out my thoughts in bursts, which might not be the best thing, but here we are. Um, so it's L onwards and that's E L L E on words. And I talk about sailor moon. I talk about writing. I talk about fighting and video games, um, or jelly donuts, which was a thing earlier today. And I do have other stuff, various other places. The best way to get ahold of that is to go to LL mckinney.com. And I think it's the upper right hand corner or at the bottom of the page. You'll see all of my other stuff for like Instagram and Facebook and stuff where mostly it's pictures of search Esther, Micah. Okay.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Thanks so much for joining me today. Thanks for having me. This was so much fun. It was fun. This was a great final episode for us to wrap up 2020. And I really appreciate you being here. Readers. Be sure to check out the nightmare verse series. You can currently buy a blade so black and a dream. So dark and the third of the series, a crown. So cursed is available for pre-order. Of course, we always encourage you to support your local indie bookstore if you can, but if you don't have a local indeed, you can also check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marissa Meyer. If you're enjoying these conversations, please subscribe and help us spread the word to other readers and writers. You can find us on Instagram at Marissa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy and cozy in your bunkers. Have a wonderful holiday season. I will see you in 2021 and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling a little bit
Speaker 1:[inaudible].