In this bonus episode, I invited my good friend Rori Shay, author of the Elected Trilogy, to join me for an open discussion about writing during periods of grief and sadness. We talked about using "grief work" as a method for coping with the loss of a loved one; how we can channel feelings of sadness and anger into our writing to both add emotional depth to our stories and help us process our own tough emotions; some self-care strategies that we've implemented during the pandemic; and how writing can sometimes act as a beneficial escape from real-life struggles, but other times what we really need is to take a break from producing and being creative, and that's okay, too.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Order The Happy Writer: Get More Ideas, Write More Words, and Find More Joy from First Draft to Publication and Beyond https://bookshop.org/a/11756/9781250362377
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
In this bonus episode, I invited my good friend Rori Shay, author of the Elected Trilogy, to join me for an open discussion about writing during periods of grief and sadness. We talked about using "grief work" as a method for coping with the loss of a loved one; how we can channel feelings of sadness and anger into our writing to both add emotional depth to our stories and help us process our own tough emotions; some self-care strategies that we've implemented during the pandemic; and how writing can sometimes act as a beneficial escape from real-life struggles, but other times what we really need is to take a break from producing and being creative, and that's okay, too.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Order The Happy Writer: Get More Ideas, Write More Words, and Find More Joy from First Draft to Publication and Beyond https://bookshop.org/a/11756/9781250362377
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I am your host, Marissa Meyer. Thanks so much for joining me. This is a atypical episode, uh, kind of a bonus episode this week, where we are going to be talking about writing and creativity specifically during periods of grief or mourning, or, you know, when you're going through maybe a particularly emotionally difficult time for those of you who have been listening the past couple of weeks, or who follow me on Instagram, you might know that my grandma did pass away a few days ago from COVID or COVID related complications. I'm not really sure what the official diagnosis was. Um, but so she, she is gone and I'm okay. I'm sad, of course. Um, but I'm also really just really extremely grateful for the time that I did have with her. Um, and that she lived to be 92 years old and that she got to know her great grandchildren. Uh I'm so one of the silly things I'm so grateful that she got to read instant karma, um, because pretty much the entire karaoke plot of the book was very much inspired by her and her love of karaoke. And so I'm just really trying to stay focused on the happy memories. Um, but at the same time, I thought that it would be helpful and useful, not just for me, but hopefully for some of you to do an episode kind of focused on this experience and how it's impacting me as a writer these days. Um, and I do want to just take a moment also to say thank you to everyone who has reached out with their condolences. Um, I do really appreciate your kind thoughts as, as my family and I have been going through this. Um, so for that, uh, for this bonus episode, I have recruited the help of a very, very dear friend of mine. I am so happy to have her here to share her own experiences and offer us tons of guidance and wisdom, no pressure, anything. Um, she is the author of the why a dystopian elected trilogy, the final book of which was released last week. And she will tell us more about that later in the podcast for now. Please welcome Rory Shea. Hi Marissa. It's so good to talk to you about even subjects that are hard.
Speaker 3:I actually didn't even realize that your grandma was 92, which is amazing. You have good genes then
Speaker 2:I know, I know I I'm, I'm hoping that say to me, she did live a very, very long full life. She was one of those women who was just, you know, full of life and laughter and dancing and energy, um, you know, for, until she couldn't be anymore. Um, so I'm really grateful for that.
Speaker 3:And 92 and she was reading instant karma. Was she reading it herself? Like, wow. Yeah, I
Speaker 2:Know, I know. How about
Speaker 3:Young at heart, right. You're 19 and you're reading why
Speaker 2:She's mine are the only ya's this year.
Speaker 3:I hope she's laughing about that because I think that, you know, having that childlike mentality and being able to still get into stuff like that, even if it is just, you know, cause it's your granddaughter, that's really special. Yeah,
Speaker 2:No. And she, I mean, I think she was one of my biggest fans. I'm sure she would have said that if she was here. Um, but it was really special for me that she did get to read this book because I mean being 92, her health, uh, and physical abilities had been deteriorating for years. Um, and there were points in when I was writing instant karma where I would worry that she wouldn't be around to read the final book. Um, and she actually has a cameo in it. Um, in one scene in the book, it talks about a little old lady who walks up to seeing, um, let's a song Stardust, which was one of her favorite songs, um, as part of karaoke. So I was just really glad that she was still, she was still around to, to read that book and experience that before we lost her. Um, so thank you for joining me. I know this is kind of a bizarre topic, happy writer, and it was strange for me to email you and be like, so I kind of want to do an episode where I talk about like sadness and grief and, and how it affects us as writers. And you were the first person. I, I want to say for the record that Rory is like one of the most bubbly, charming and delightful people. I just want people to know that about you. Thank you.
Speaker 3:The, one of the ways that like you can allow yourself to be bubbly at times is to also allow yourself to be genuine and authentic for the times that aren't so great because everyone has those. And now that we've been going through the pandemic, I feel like it's been, it's touching so many different people in different hardly. Anyone's been able to escape some of the grief that's gone along with it. So I'm so glad you're having this podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Thank you. I hope that it will be an episode that people can come back to. Um, like you said, I mean, it is at this point in the pandemic, it does just feel like it's gotten closer and closer. And I feel like almost everybody has been impacted in one way or another. Um, but even, you know, if someone's listening to this and maybe they themselves, aren't experiencing something right now where this is useful to them, I hope that it's the sort of episode where people will maybe come back to later when they feel like they need it
Speaker 3:Or even have like listened to it and think of, you know, empathy for other people around them who might be going through stuff with the pandemic.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. So in your email, when you did agree to come on with me today, um, you mentioned that you find it really healing to talk about your experiences and some of the things that you've gone through. Um, so I thought that was maybe a good place to start if you, because I know that you, you have been through some things, um, which is kind of one of the reasons I thought of you to be my partner in crime for this. I don't know if you just want to kind of introduce why you're here to say sure. I think
Speaker 3:Holly has had circumstances in their life that are, you know, grief worthy. Um, but I definitely have had a few and, um, it really helps to talk to other people who are going through things. It makes me feel so much better to be able to like tell people my experiences and then say, yes, you'll think about the person you've lost, you know, forever, but you can, you still move on, you get to still live life and that person wants you would want you to and, and just show them that like, it gets better. You don't forget, but your brain gets better. I don't know if you want me to tell you what those were you tell me.
Speaker 2:I feel like if we need yes, because otherwise people are just gonna be like, so it feels like a mystery thing. And I mean, I don't want to yell at all, but yes.
Speaker 3:And I, and I remember I had said, I know I had said to you, like, I'm an open book, I'll talk about, you know, any of these, so whatever you're comfortable with, of course. Yeah, no, no, no, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. So I, I have lost all four of my grandparents, unfortunately at this point. Um, but they all lived into their, you know, late, late eighties, so, well, except for one who I never met, sorry, three out of the four did. So that wasn't as like shocking. What was really a shocking event in my life was when I was 26 years old. Um, I got a call from the police asking from my boyfriend, my long-term boyfriend's parents' address. And I was like, why do you need that? It was like 6:00 AM in the morning, on a Saturday. And they were like, well, we can't tell you why we need it, but we need their address because we can't find any information about him. And I'm like, what, what happened? And they're like, all we can tell you is that he's at a hospital and that he was in a car accident and I gave them his parents' address and phone number. And about an hour later after the police had been there at their front door, they called me to let me know that he had been hit by a drunk driver who was going the wrong way on the New Jersey turnpike. And, um, and he was killed instantly. So that was definitely something I had to get over at a really early age. She was my long-term boyfriend. I thought I was going to marry him. His mom said she was helping him search for a ring. Um, and then miraculously, you know, I asked him at one point after he was gone, I kind of looked up to the sky and I was like, I won't pick anyone else to be boyfriend girlfriend with, unless I feel like you have sanctioned it. And I feel like he is the one then who, um, ended up somehow based on like circumstances, how I met my husband, Jason. And then, um, when Jason and I were getting married a little, like a few years later after that, um, I mean, we are still together and we have two beautiful daughters, but in our wedding party, I had one of my good friends from college who also is killed in a car accident, not her fault. It was a snowy day and she got hit. So I have had to deal with very like shocking, tragic things. Um, and I am still breathing and hopefully at least my experiences helped me be able to talk to other people who go through loss. And then also there's the pandemic.
Speaker 2:And then there's this year. Um, well, I
Speaker 3:Am very sorry.[inaudible] um,
Speaker 2:I'm going to call you riffy people here. Author name is Rory, but I know it was risky. And I just know I'm going to trip over that this whole episode.
Speaker 3:That's totally okay. Yeah, it's really is such an interesting name that when I was coming up with what I would be called as an author, I thought to myself, it's just too easy to Google my name. I'm the only one out there with the name Raphy people will be able to get my address and you know, what if I become so famous
Speaker 2:[inaudible]
Speaker 3:So I came up with that name, um, Rory Shay. Um, so you talked about, um, when
Speaker 2:You and I were talking before the recording and in our emails that a therapist that you had been working with, um, had recommended something called grief work. Tell me about grief work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I was lucky enough after Adam passed away. Um, I was lucky enough to get a grief counselor for a few months to talk to. And she was the same grief counselor for the nine 11 families, the victims families, um, from the Pentagon. I lived in Arlington Virginia at the time. And so I felt like she was really experienced and really good. And she said, one of the things she recommends is doing grief work and then also not doing grief work. So like you need a period of time each day after a loss where you shut your mind off from the loss and like go to work and just let your mind relax. And then you also need a period of time every day where you do the grief work, where you let yourself delve deep into the remembering the person you've lost or what's going on in your life. And you write in a journal about it. Um, because if you hold it all in, she said that it'll cause, um, later down the line, like physical ailments.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, so grief work specifically is, you know, just kind of doing your, your normal work, your normal day-to-day what would you be doing to stay busy during this time?
Speaker 3:Well, the grief work is the opposite of that. So like there's the time, or you're not doing the grief work where you just do your normal day to day, you go to work and you don't think about the grief and the work is actually the opposite. It's like where you come home at the end of the day. And you're like, I'm going to write in a journal about this. Okay. Talk about it.
Speaker 2:Okay. So what I mean, so writing in a journal is one way to kind of help process these feelings, um, talking to someone, um, what, what else could a person we do?
Speaker 3:Um, well, for me, I called different friends. Cause I didn't want to inundate, you know, just the same friends with, with how much, you know, it hurts, especially at the end of the night. Um, so I called different people of my friends and my parents. Um, and then I definitely wrote in a journal, I actually wrote to the person that I had lost because I used to, you know, in the evening talk to him every day. So that was like a strange second loss of just like, not knowing what to do with my time. At that time of evening, they would write a journal like to him, like I was writing him a note.
Speaker 2:Right, right. I'm going to try that. I've never, never been a journaler. Um, but yeah, yeah. Kind of feeling like you can still talk to someone, I guess seems like it could be really helpful that that you've lost them, but you know, people always of course say that they're still in your heart. And I think, you know, being able to express yourself and still kind of carry on that conversation with them could help you continue to feel connected to them.
Speaker 3:And so mate, I hope this doesn't get like weird, but there's just so many stories of, um, people who say like they get signs, you know, after the person, their love, their life, who's gone. Like they still get signs that like, that person's watching over them or sporadically, they, they feel that person's presence. And there's just so many different stories of it. I feel like we don't understand a lot of, you know, what happens later. That is things could be true. Maybe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, I, myself am not, I don't really subscribe to any particular religion, but I do think that there's a connectivity between people and, you know, I think that there's something to be said, whether it's spirituality or, um, you know, the energy in your soul that continues on. Like, I don't know. I don't, I don't think science is able to explain it yet. Um, but I do think that there's something there. Um, and I don't don't think that when you die, you just that's it, you know, I have to believe that that energy continues in some way.
Speaker 3:I think that's true also for like, Saifai like you and I are both Saifai writers and um, this is a little bit of a deviation, but if you think of like outer space, like Carl Sagan used to say, it's just too big for there. Not to be some other life form out there. I feel kind of that same way about like losing someone. It's just, it's just impossible that they've completely gone away. There has to be something there. Yeah.
Speaker 2:No, I feel that, I feel that way and just got into like a larger thing too. Like there's just been too many, like you take, say too many examples whether in my own life or in people's lives that I know, you know, just strange occurrences that it's hard to say that these are all just weird coincidences
Speaker 3:And I'm sure like, just to play devil's advocate that many of them are coincidences, but there's just so many that some have got to not be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I agree. That's kind of, that's kind of how I feel too. Um, this is like really gotten a lot deeper than I thought
Speaker 3:To answer your question by saying a lot of the, the way I get through grief is by writing it into my books. And so if I'm having a sad day for any reason, not because I've lost someone or just because I'm mad that day or sad that day, sometimes that's when I'm most motivated to write. And I make my characters feel that anxious and that's like some of my best writing. No I do.
Speaker 2:And I, there's something about feeling a full spectrum of emotions that I do think on a creative level. Like that's good for us. If you want to be able to write scenes and stories that are authentic, you know, and, and to show your characters, experiencing different things, it's helpful to have a touch point in real life, um, that you can, you know, kind of reference on some level.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I remember one of my friends, um, she said, I can tell riffy slash Rory, you have all the emotions. Like, I don't know if that's a good thing. You just
Speaker 2:Toss your hair by. Yes, I am.
Speaker 3:I was born for this. Oh, you can ask me it's okay.
Speaker 2:You know, sometimes when you're feeling sad, you, you want to write and I feel like I go both ways. Like there are days when I'm and have been days the past few weeks as we've been, you know, since we learned that grandma had COVID, um, there are days when the last thing I want to do is try to create and put words on paper that make any sense. And like my, my heart's just not in it. And then there have been days when I feel like writing has been a really wonderful escape for me and, you know, something that I could, I could delve into this story and surround myself with this world and these characters and kind of be separate from what I was going through emotionally. So, I mean, for you, how, how do you feel you react creatively when you're going through periods of, of the sadness?
Speaker 3:Well, I think what you just said was interesting because sometimes it isn't escapism. That's what like reading a book does for me, but writing as well, because all of a sudden, you're not in your own issues. You are writing about other characters in a different world or different time just going through something completely different. So it is a bit of a relaxation for your brain, but then there are times where I just channel all my feelings into it, which also just feels really good to get out, get out right onto paper. That's just one of the ways that it's cathartic for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I agree. It can be,
Speaker 3:If I can break in and ask you about your characters, your evil characters. Okay, great. So, so from, from Ferris and from, um, the queen of hearts, Catherine and heartless and heartless, and then I know you're writing gilded right now, you're evil characters who are like really, really mean and, and they get angry. Do you ever like channel your frustration or your anger or your sadness like into them? Does that help you like get it out
Speaker 2:When I'm in those scenes and I'm in those characters heads? I am not thinking about like something that has made me really angry or something that's made me really sad. Like I'm so much in that character's mind. Um, of course one really obvious example is, uh, and should I just say, okay, there's going to be a spoiler for heartless. If you haven't read heartless, maybe skip forward a minute or two. Okay.
Speaker 3:Which a good buck. I think that might be my favorite by the way.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Um, okay. And I hope that gave people a time to skip forward. Yeah. So one scene, of course, the most probably heart-wrenching scene that's been in any of my books so far, uh, is when Jess dies. And I, when I wrote that chapter and there's like the moment, the moment when he dies and I wrote that sentence and then I pushed away from my desk and immediately just started balling and I've never cried like that, writing anything else before or after. And it was just such, such a gut gut wrenching moment for me. But I wasn't thinking about, you know, somebody that I personally had lost, like for me, I was just in Catherine's mind at that moment and experiencing the loss of jest at the same time that she was. And it's, it's an unusual thing, writing really emotional scenes like that. Um, because I feel, I don't know, I just feel like it kind of gets me in touch with my emotions on a deep level, but at the same time, there has to be this awareness that like, well, this isn't real, this character didn't doesn't actually exist. They didn't actually just die. And yet you're just so, so in it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, I mean, that's the same way when you're watching a movie and you start crying or reading a book, there has been times, um, in one of my books when the parents have to are forced to leave and the main character is on her own to preside over the country. Um, that was really hard for me because I'm so close with my parents and for those parents in the book to walk away made me just think about like losing my parents. Um, so it made me that have that connection in my head. And I remember crying when I finished that scene too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, the the only, well, not me, I don't know if this is the only, um, the first scene that I ever cried out writing would have been in Scarlet, um, when Scarlet's grandmother died. And I cried writing that scene very much because I was thinking about my own grandma. Um, and of course this was years ago and yeah, but I have always been just so close to her, um, that I remember writing that scene and how close Scarlet was with her grandma and that emotional loss. And just thinking about how hard that would be, um, was very difficult. It's difficult, writing, sad things is hard.
Speaker 3:It is hard. It is right. And then it's almost like method acting like you get really into it.
Speaker 2:It's exactly like meth. That's a great comparison.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I've always had that. In fact, sometimes I have to make sure I don't go too deep into it because like there's reality to, I step away from the book. I'm like, Oh, that's right. Remember these aren't real people you're just wrote about. And like, I literally have to like, make myself remember that sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I'm the same way, but I, I mean, I like that you point out that it can be cathartic, um, because it is, and it's like how sometimes you just need a good cry and I think kind of the same way writing sad scenes or, you know, really emotional scenes that sometimes it just feels really good to get that out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're right. It totally does.
Speaker 2:So I do want to kind of talk about like some practical advice, you know, for people who might be listening, this who maybe, you know, they've also lost someone recently or they're just, you know, going through a difficult time. And one of the things that I think it's really important to mention, cause obviously, you know, we've been talking about writing and how writing, you know, can be kind of cathartic and therapeutic in its own way. Um, but I do think it's also important to know that sometimes the best thing you can do is not write for a little while. And I think that it's really important to pay attention to what we need emotionally and if that's time and if that's, you know, space away from your work, that's legitimate. And, and so I think that that's important to cover as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I agree with that. There has been, since the pandemic started, I thought to myself, Oh, I'm going to be home all the time, doing nothing else. I'm going to write tons of books. Like the exact opposite. Um, my kids are home homeschooling. We had some issues with my parents challenges. So they moved cross country to live in my house till the pandemic's over. So it's just, um, there hasn't been a lot of creative open space to write as much as I thought there would be, but that has to be okay.
Speaker 2:You know, and obviously I've now talked to over 50 authors on this podcast. And what I have learned definitively is that we are all experiencing that. Um, and it's funny because yeah, I'm, I think so many of us were the same way when the pandemic first hit and suddenly we're all on lockdown and you think like, cool, just imagine all this new free time. And I think that we've all learned that like, no, it's, it's not, it's not free time. It's not like we've just had a 10 month writing retreat where you're just, you know, relaxing and writing all the time. It's come with, you know, this a whole host of other worries and concerns and you know, just so many other things in our thoughts and in our hearts, um, that have made writing and being productive really difficult at times.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it has. I think that's one of the biggest surprises for me as a, um, creative during this time period. It was just the exact opposite of what I thought was going to happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I haven't made some time to write and those are like some, some great self-care moments when I do make the time. But also sometimes I'm just not in the right head space. Like I'm too nervous about what's happening, um, with COVID or my kids or my parents. And I just can't seem to like sit down and get into different characters mindsets at that point. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No, I, I, yeah, for me, it's kind of come in waves and there will be a few weeks or a month where like, it it's, the creativity is back and I'm energized and I'm excited and then something else will happen. Okay. Now I'm sad again. Um, I know for me, like when we got the news that grandma had tested positive for COVID, um, pretty much, I mean the very next day I emailed my editor and told her what was happening and she's met my grandma and she knows how close I am to her. It was to her. Um, and you know, just to let her know, like this is happening, I'm probably not gonna hit my deadline. The book was due here at the end of January and that's not going to happen now. Um, and so I think that that's important, you know, if you're, whether you're writing fan fiction, you have readers who are expecting something, or if you're, you know, getting published and you have an editor that's expecting something, you know, whatever it is, if you can be open about what you're going through and that you might need more time. I think that's, it's good, you know, to, to feel like you don't have to just buckle down and plow through when you really just need some extra space.
Speaker 3:Right. And being authentic to yourself then makes a better product in the end. No, definitely.
Speaker 2:So you talked about, um, writing as self care, uh, which I, I love to think of it that way. I think that we can forget that writing is something that we do because we love it and it's good for us or our creativity and all of these things. So, um, maybe talk a little bit more about that and kind of self care in general.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So every year I make a new year's resolution I have for the past, like 10 years. And it's like the one thing that I definitely keep all year long. And so it could be like stupid little things, or it could be major like one year I picked, I'm going to write 50,000 words in my book, get a new job and run three, five Ks. And then the next year I picked, I'm gonna brush my pet's more often. And I like made sure I kept all of those, no matter if it's big or small, but then this year, because of everything that's happening, I was like, I need a self care new year's resolution to make sure that I watch out for myself because now I'm taking care of, you know, my parents, my mom's, her Parkinson's and has degraded. And I think dementia set in. So I, and I'm taking, I'm taking care of them and I'm watching out the kids while they're doing their schooling. And I just had to remember to take care of myself. So I made a new year's resolution about self care. So it is specifically that every day I need to remember, did you, one thing that's good for my body and one good thing. That's good for my brain. And so like today, for example, and I like keep a little list of this too, in my phone. So today I said, okay, the good thing for my brain is that I'll be talking to Marissa on this podcast,
Speaker 2:Cross that off the list.
Speaker 3:And then the good thing for my body was that I went for like a half an hour run slash walk in my neighborhood.
Speaker 2:Nice. So what, what are, what are some other things that you've done? I love that. Cause I think that self care, I think we talk a lot about self care, but we don't always recognize what it looks like, like in real life, like, yes, we all know we should be taking care of ourselves, but what are some actual actionable things that we can do? So like, so, okay. Things can be your mind and your body. What are some other things that you've done or that you want to do?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I'm looking at my, at my list and some of them are pretty funny. Um, some of them are like things like, you know, call a good friend and talk to them. That's takes care of your mind for the day. Some of them are like, do a puzzle that like stimulates your mind or do a SEDU you go. And some I'm looking at them and laughing at myself because one of the things for my body on, um, January 2nd that I wrote down was took a short power nap. That's
Speaker 2:Not funny. That's great. Sleep is number one. I'm a big advocate for getting more sleep.
Speaker 3:There's other ones that are like walked for an hour for like a Zoomba video online. And then there's other ones that are like put on it.
Speaker 2:No, I love that though. I keep a here a while back, I read an article about keeping a downtime list, which is like the opposite of a to-do list. And it's just a list of things that, you know, you'd like to do when you have some extra time that you weren't expecting. And so I, I keep one of those and it's a lot of things that I know that I love and that I enjoy, but that I forget about. Um, and like building a jigsaw puzzle is on the list. Um, listening to an audio book, taking a bath, um, coloring with my kids. Like, it's funny how sometimes as a parent you can feel like all the things you do with your kids are obligatory. And then like to actually remind myself like, Oh, I actually enjoy these quiet moments where we're just, it's just us and a bunch of crayons and coloring books and you know, things like that. I think I, yeah, it's been a useful list for me.
Speaker 3:That's awesome. I remember when we went on a writer's retreat together and you told me about this meditation you were doing, I was so impressed. You were so like on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I've fallen off the wagon with meditation and it's funny, they say that the busier you are the more you need meditation. And I think that is 100% true. And when I really got into meditation was when I was writing the renegades trilogy and all three of those books were under just ridiculous tight deadlines. And so that's when I started meditating because I'd read that. It's just so good for focus and time management and stress relief and all of these things. And it, 100% is I loved it when I was doing it. But now that I've had a year where I'm stuck at home and feel like I have all this free time, suddenly I never make time for it anymore. The irony of it.
Speaker 3:Right. Well, I mean, it actually sorta makes sense because you needed it when you're feeling like crazed running around, but then now when we're more sedentary or just having to be at home, everything's a meditation.
Speaker 2:So the app that I used was Headspace, which is a really popular meditation app. Um, and now that we're talking about it, I guarantee they have specific programs for grief and, and mourning and all, you know, all the things that we're talking about. So this would probably actually be a really great time for me to get back into it.
Speaker 3:I probably would be. And I use an app called calm. Sometimes
Speaker 2:I love calm. I love their sleep stories. Yeah,
Speaker 3:Totally. And some of them are free. Like I don't actually pay for the app. I just do the free version. And I listened to like, whatever sleep story that night happens to be free. And they're so calming, such good voices
Speaker 2:Are. I know. And they're like, so many of them have just the most lovely accents. I love it. Yeah. If you guys aren't familiar with the calm apps, sleep stories, highly recommended. I always break them out when I'm on book tour, because my sleep schedule gets so wonky and yeah. They just like knocked me right out there. Great. Okay. What else do we want to talk about? One thing I did want to cover that we kind of talked about before we started the recording that I, I have to believe is normal and universal in some ways, um, is this idea that we were saying that you and I are generally pretty happy, chipper, cheerful people. Um, and I was saying that it's, it feels weird for me going through periods of sadness. Like almost like when I allow myself to feel sad or to act sad, you know, to go crawl into bed in the middle of the day and cry for a little while. There's a part of me that feels fake about it. Like this isn't who you are, Marissa. Like you need to snap out of it. You need to get back to being your normal, happy self. Like, what are you doing? And, and it's weird. It's weird trying to kind of find that balance of, of knowing what I need and what's healthy for me, but also feeling like, like it's inauthentic in some ways, do you feel that way? Like, what's, what's your experience with it
Speaker 3:Sometimes? No, I definitely feel like, you know, like my friend said, you're an artist with lots of emotions, but, um, everyone who knows me, I think would, would say, Oh, she's like super bubbly and smiley all the time. And when I am not smiling, like people look at me like something's wrong. And I feel like, um, I need to be my normal self, but my, but in actuality, my normal self is that sometimes I have other emotions. Yeah. Yeah. So sometimes I feel like it's an authentic and I try to like snap myself out of it, but then it just ends up like hurting me kind of. So I just have to like give myself the grace to, to realize that my personality is multiple things. And sometimes if need to go take that power nap, cause I'm feeling crappy in the middle of the day. Um, now there's a pandemic. We got the opportunity to study that in the middle of the day. So weird.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've had points where I've like had to verbally remind myself like say the words out loud. It's okay to be sad, Marissa. Um, and because I feel like I can forget, I can forget that it's okay. It's okay to be sad sometimes.
Speaker 3:And I actually really like when people are offended and they show their true selves, I feel closer to people when I don't just see a happy veneer all the time. And when people open up and say, Hey, something crappy is happening to me, I'll be okay. But you know, this is what's happening. That automatically makes me, you know, want to be even more better friends with them because I feel like I've gotten to know them better.
Speaker 2:Right. And it's a little bit like, you know, you think of fictional characters and the idea of like the Mary Sue character and the, the female protagonist, who's always perfect and cheerful and nothing ever gets her down and she can do everything great all the time. I guess. I guess it's important to remember that, you know, we like people with layers. Right. Do we, is there anything else that you, well, actually, I'm going to, I'm going to wrap it up kind of with my, my last question for you. Riffy if somebody is listening to this right now and they're struggling with something they're going through a tough time, what is like the number one piece of advice that you would give them?
Speaker 3:Um, I think it would be to reach out to somebody else, no matter who it is and let them, when you're reaching out, don't just say I'm having trouble, but make it actionable for them and be like, I need you to come over here or I need you to talk to me on the phone, or I need you to sit with me on the phone while I'm having a panic attack and just help me debrief. And just to be authentic and honest and know that you know what people actually will not judge. You they'll actually feel closer to you.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a great point. And because you also, people want to be there for you. I mean, people care and people want to help. And there is this constant question, Mark, you know, people, what can I do for you? If you need me, let me know. And that's, that's legitimate. I think people really do want to help. They just don't always know how
Speaker 3:Right. So like make it easy for them. Right. That's my advice other than what you need. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, do you want to do the happy writer bonus round while you're here? Yeah. I don't have the questions written down. Let's see if I can, if I have the memorize here,
Speaker 3:We to answer for everything will be ice cream. Let's see. I don't know. We'll see.
Speaker 2:All right. Number one. What book makes you happy?
Speaker 3:Oh my goodness. Oh, I love reading so much, but you know what? I'm going to pick an easy answer for this and say your books because I could get into any of your books at any time. Um, I'm always like very satisfied by them. Um, so I'm going to say one of yours and especially the ones where you take, uh, a story that I know and you twist it around and look at it from a different angle. I just sink my teeth into those.
Speaker 2:Aw, thanks. Um, what is your personal mantra?
Speaker 3:Oh, this is good. Okay. It is always a child at heart stay forever young.
Speaker 2:What do you do to celebrate an accomplishment? Um, usually it's
Speaker 3:Go hang out with friends and like plan a big party,
Speaker 2:Do it all day.
Speaker 3:But I guess right now it'd be like eat ice cream.
Speaker 2:That's funny. Cause I was thinking earlier, like if we should talk about coping mechanisms and it's like, I have a glass of wine, we're doing this in the evening. I don't usually drink wine during recordings, but I do have a glass of wine with me now. And part of me is like, Hmm, is this a coping mechanism or is it just happy ice cream too. Okay. What else? What else, what advice would you give to help someone become a happier writer?
Speaker 3:I think it's what we talked about earlier that go with what works for you. If you are the kind of person like to write every day and that makes you happier, you can go for it. If you want to only write, when you hear like a song, come on that stirs your emotion and makes you then get into it. That's fine too.
Speaker 2:Lastly, where can people find you?
Speaker 3:Oh, okay. So I have four published books, I guess, three published books and then one, you know, novella and they, you can find me at www dot Rory, Shay, R O R I S H a y.com. So very shade.com or girl classified.com. Um, and then my books are sold on Amazon and Barnes and noble and Walmarts you elected series. Um, I'm also on Facebook and Twitter. Twitter is at Rory Shea easy.
Speaker 2:Nice. And since we didn't really get to talk much about your books, do you want to give just a brief pitch? What is the elected series about?
Speaker 3:Sure. The elected series is a story of a girl who masquerades as a man to take country's presidential role in a futuristic America. It's a bit of like a gender bending story like Milan and it's considered a clarify, which is climate fiction because it discusses what earth would be like after rampant unbridled, climate change
Speaker 2:Quite timely. All right, Rory, thank you so, so much for joining me for this episode today, it was just really great to talk to you and so great to hear you.
Speaker 3:It was really good to talk to you about this too. I was a little scared honestly, to talk about this subject that was like, Oh my goodness, what if I'm too sad? Or what if I am strangely happy when it's a sad topic, but it just so easy to talk to you. And, um, I've had so much fun being on it, talking about such a sad thing.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm glad. I mean, it is still the happy writer podcast. And I admit I going into the, this episode with this topic, I had some concerns too, because again, like we are who we are and I know that I giggle it everything, but you know, but at the same time I do think that it's an important topic to cover. Um, and something that I wanted to talk about, you know, even just so people can kind of know what I'm going through and how I'm, you know, doing my best to, to tackle it and, and get through it right now. So, and I appreciate you being my, my partner.
Speaker 3:Thanks for asking me,
Speaker 2:Uh, readers. You can check out Rory's trilogy, the elected trilogy, the third and final was just rereleased. Um, and is available all those places, Amazon and Walmart and Barnes and noble. Um, so check it out. And is it available in indie bookstore?
Speaker 3:So anytime somebody walks into an indie bookstore, those stores, you just have to put in an order for one of my books and they can find it very easily.
Speaker 2:Yeah. There you go.
Speaker 3:Right. Call ahead and order it and then they'll have it ready for you like a couple days later.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool. If you're enjoying these conversations, we hope that you subscribe and please leave us a review on Google or Apple podcasts. You can also follow us on Instagram at Marissa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy and cozy in your bunkers and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling okay.
Speaker 1:[inaudible].