Marissa chats with Jennifer A. Nielsen about her new middle grade historical novel - RESCUE - as well as how historical fiction is a great tool for showing kids and teens how exciting history actually is; the fascinating neuroscience that reveals how reading in elementary and middle school is intrinsically different than reading as an adult; how a character's voice can be uncovered by letting them "speak" to us; and some nerding out over codes and cryptology (which might become Marissa's new hobby).
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa chats with Jennifer A. Nielsen about her new middle grade historical novel - RESCUE - as well as how historical fiction is a great tool for showing kids and teens how exciting history actually is; the fascinating neuroscience that reveals how reading in elementary and middle school is intrinsically different than reading as an adult; how a character's voice can be uncovered by letting them "speak" to us; and some nerding out over codes and cryptology (which might become Marissa's new hobby).
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books, to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I'm your host, Marissa Meyer. Thank you for joining me today. One thing that has been making me happy for actually a few months now is a YouTube channel. I discovered it back around the holidays. It is called yoga with Adrian and I used to do yoga regularly years ago. Uh, and then kind of, you know, fell off that horse. And so I have been wanting to get back into it. And so I set myself this goal that I was going to try to do one yoga routine every Sunday. And so I looked on line on YouTube and found this channel yoga with Adrian and this woman, Adrian, obviously I've never met her. I have no actual connection to her, but after the last few months of spending my Sundays with her, I feel like we are best friends. I feel like I know her. She is so encouraging and down to earth and such a calming personality that I look forward to it every week now. So whether or not you're a Yogi and maybe are needing some inspiration or just kind of want to check it out. I really love the channel. I've really enjoyed it. So maybe give it a chance. And of course I am so happy to be talking to today's guest. She is the author of many books for young adults and middle-grade readers, including the false Prince, the traders game, Mark of the thief and the scourge, as well as the historical novels words on fire resistance and a night divided her latest world war two inspired middle grade novel rescue came out last week on March 2nd, please. Welcome Jennifer A. Nielsen. Hi Marissa. It's so great to be part of this podcast. Thank you for having me. Thank you for joining me now. Am I understanding that you, I think no, our social media director, do you know Joanne levy? Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. She's an awesome, you know what? She is one of those multitalented women and the more you get to know her, the better she gets, that is so true. I know I've been working with her for a number of years now and I can already, I know she's going to listen to this and be immediately blushing. You know, she, uh, she deserves that and much, much, much more. So I do consider her a good friend and incredibly talented writer. So if you're listening and you don't know her books, pause, go find out her books and you'll discover so true. And she did, we did an episode together as a while back now. Um, but talked course about her wonderful books. She writes just the sweetest, middle grades. Um, but then she's also my assistant. She also does our, all of our social media for this podcast and also has time to make like really lovely handcrafted gifts. Just like you heard amazing human being. I don't know how she does it.
Speaker 3:Uh, no, nor do I, but that's just it, you know, she just, she starts out awesome and only gets better.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Anyway, I know she, she mentioned that you were good friends, so I think she was particularly excited to hear that you were coming on the show. Why don't we start out with you telling listeners about your new book rescue
Speaker 3:A rescue is a world war two era novel. Um, that tells the story of Meg Kenyan. She is living in Nazi, occupied, France, and, uh, is headed out to her barn one day and she notices drops of blood leading into the barn. And when she goes inside there, she finds a downed British air force pilot who has come to her property for a very specific reason. He's on a secret mission. Um, if the mission is successful, it will result in the rescue of her father from a German prisoner of war camp. However he has with him, a code from her father that he needs her help to solve. Um, med can certainly make her best attempt at the code. The problem is the secret mission, this a pilot now that he's injured, he cannot complete the mission himself and Meg has to make the decision of whether she will finish the mission and solve the secret code as the only hope of ever rescuing her father.
Speaker 2:So this is now I believe the fourth book that you've done, um, kind of in this same time period, world war II, cold war era.
Speaker 3:Oh, roughly. It starts with Lithuania in the 1890s. Okay. And then, um, ends of course in Germany, in the 1960s. So I mean, world war II is definitely at the center of all right. Hard to get away from. This is the second, um, that takes place in world war II. I see.
Speaker 2:So what is it about this time period that keeps inspiring you that speaks to you creative?
Speaker 3:I think, um, there's something about war in general. And of course, like I said, not, I'm not exclusively writing about that, but there's something about war. It pushes people to their limits and, and once people reach that, they begin to discover who they really are. It's separates, um, the, you know, people who just want to live marginally and live under the radar and it takes these ordinary fuller people who believe they are ordinary and it makes them heroes and world war two. Uh, we call the people who live in the greatest generation for a, because so many heroes Rose up in such a wide variety of ways. And, and I firmly believe, um, every single one of them has a story that ought to be told.
Speaker 2:No, I think that's a great point. And it's impossible for me reading things from this time period. It's so hard to distinguish fact from fiction. Um, obviously you're writing fiction novels, you know, you're, you're making up characters, you're making up a storyline, but there's always this undercurrent of truth. I feel in, in reading books set in this time period, because you know that these things were happening, you know, that there were young kids who were trying to help the allies, you know, that there were just, you know, regular Housewives who were putting themselves at risk, you know, to try to do the right thing. And just so many stories for you. Like how much do you try to let truth and real life stories inspire you versus how much are you kind of making up from scratch?
Speaker 3:Uh, as much as possible, I try to stick as close to the, to reality as possible. And it is a fictional world, right. But, um, but because I have, um, young readers, you know, fourth grade, fifth grade, sixth grade, um, and up when they read the fiction novel, that embeds in their memories like that was history. And so, uh, as close as I can. So I'll give you some examples. Um, when I did at night divided, that's the Berlin wall story. Obviously the, the story itself is fictional, but every single thing that happened in that book is somebody's real life experience from East Germany. So if it's in the book, it did happen to somebody. I learned a great lesson when doing resistance, which was about the Jewish teenagers who fought back against the Nazis. I spoke with a woman who told me, she said, you know, there are, there are people in the world who deny the Holocaust ever happened. And so if you get something wrong, you give license to those people to say, well, she made this up. Maybe it's all made up. And that hit me so strong. And so even when doing rescue, I mean, obviously the likelihood of a downed British air force pilot asking a, you know, a girl to complete a secret mission, probably not, but, um, the tools that he has in his, um, gear that she takes with her, all of those are actual tools, the methods for, um, deciphering codes, those are all real actual methods. The route they took the hazards, they had to get through it and take that all of that is exactly what it would have been like. And so that if, if a young reader reads it in the book, um, aside what I think is obviously fictional elements there, the reader is going to learn history.
Speaker 2:[inaudible] I love that you bring that up because I like so many parents right now in homeschooling our first year of homeschool. Um, and my kids are young they're in, just in kindergarten. Um, so we're, we're not quite to the point where we're ready to start talking about world war II. Um, but I've, I've started to think, and to look ahead and, you know, asking myself if we continue to homeschool rich right now, I think it's feeling pretty likely cause I've actually surprisingly enjoyed it a lot more than I thought that I would. Um, but thinking, okay, well, how am I going to teach history? And for me, there is such a huge appeal to learning history through movies and through, you know, hands-on experiences and travel and obviously books and, and historical fiction, as opposed to like learning it through a textbook, which is how most of us I think learned it. Um, but at the same time, like I would, I imagine there must be a lot of pressure on you as a writer one yes. To be historically accurate, but also to like walk this line between following the history and including lots of good meaty facts to dig into, but also you have to write a really engaging story that readers are going to be excited about. Like how do you feel you, you balance that?
Speaker 3:Oh, it's because I, I believe that history truly is that exciting and interesting. It's about just pulling the details that sort of light up my imagination. And, and so, you know, the problem we have is the way that most young people are taught history, it's names and dates and places. And if all we teach kids is names and dates and places, history is the worst. It is unbearable. But if we teach children the stories of history and what actually happened, I don't have to go and embellish, I don't have to, uh, create, um, a lot of drama. History is dramatic. History is exciting. And, uh, and so to me to get to write in a time period of history, I, I don't think I could be more fortunate than to have that playground, uh, as a palette to begin writing.
Speaker 2:Now, I, I completely agree. I personally, as a writer am terrified of writing historical fiction and just terrified that I would get something wrong. Um, but as, as a reader and as someone who loves to learn, and I just have so much curiosity, I love historical fiction. I love that it opens this window into a past world, into past lives. And it can, you know, put us in the footsteps of people who lived decades or centuries ago and make it so clear that they were real people. These were actual people exactly like us that were experiencing this.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, I think too, particularly when we're dealing with young readers, uh, historical novels, uh, bring in a comfort that may not exist with other genres. One of the things I tell kids, especially over this past year is that history is not align. That just starts somewhere and ends up somewhere else. History is a cycle. It just goes round and round the same events, the same conflicts, the same struggles. Um, I'll remind kids, look, this is not the first pandemic we've ever experienced. We've been here before. And the great and wonderful thing is we got through it, we got through it and we got through it better than we were before. And so I tell kids, you don't have to be afraid now because I know our history. And because I know history, I know the future. I know we will get through this too. And so as kids learn history and they realize people have done hard things before people have struggled before it's empowering to them to realize they can do the hard thing too, because it's happened before.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And of course, to see characters their own age, who go through these really terrible difficult things, but find ways to be brave and be courageous and keep pushing forward. And I think that's a message that we could all we all love to hear.
Speaker 3:Well, I think that's the wonderful thing about being able to write for young people in, in any genre is, um, that we, we know from, we know from science, that, that a kid, a particularly like a middle grade, um, child, you know, fourth grade to about seventh or eighth, um, what happens with their minds as they read it's different than at other ages that they internalize that book in, in a very unique way. And because of that, um, these students who find an immersive book that they just love, they walk themselves into that book. They become more heroic when they read about a heroic character, they become more confident when they read about a confident character. And so it's, uh, it's why writing for young people is, is just an incredible gift to be able to do that.
Speaker 2:I love that I am fascinated by neuroscience and the brain and all of the ways that it functions and develops. It's like one of my, I don't want my nerdy things that I love to read about. And I was not familiar with that idea that, that a reader's at that age is internalizing things differently than you were. I might. That is
Speaker 3:Cool. I'll show you how, you know, it's, it's happening when you talk to a young writer and they, you ask them about their story, they will almost always start their story and the third person, and they'll finish telling you about it in the first person they ask about a girl and she's, she's climbing a high mountain and it's really dangerous. And then it starts to snow. And then I wasn't sure what I was going to, and it will stop because really they are writing about themselves as a more powerful them, which is incredible. And they will do the same thing. Um, when they read, they don't read about Percy Jackson, they become a Percy Jackson and basically they know the difference, but the brain processing for a middle grade, it doesn't, it, it doesn't distinguish the difference. And it's because of the interconnectivity of the brain. And we could geek out on this. We're like the only two writers ever who are like, Oh, do you want to talk about scientific research? Because I do
Speaker 2:All the things, all the things. I mean, it makes so much sense. I think even on a personal level, what books do you remember reading in childhood? What stands out as a purely visceral experience? And like, I could list some of the books that I read when I was a teenager, but they did not leave nearly the impact as the books that I was reading in late elementary school. Like the giver in fifth grade is like this spotlight of time in my memory that I just remember so much about what I was feeling and experiencing when I read that book. Yeah. And that's so many as anything it's so cool.
Speaker 3:Nearly everybody who, uh, who was reading their, their favorite book of their entire lives is almost, always, not always, but almost always discovered between fourth and seventh or eighth grade. Yeah. What's yours. Oh my goodness. Western game was he, Oh, that was such a good game. I loved wrinkle in time. I needed megs so much. In fact, the connection between Meg, why Meg gets her name, has it begins with wrinkle in time and how important Meg was, uh, to me and the outsiders, um, which I discovered in sixth grade, um, se Hinton was a bigger influence on me than I realized at the time, how important she was to me. That's so great. I think for me, Charlie and the chocolate factory. Yes.
Speaker 2:Right at the top. I can't, I mean, I read and re-read, and re-read that book so many times,
Speaker 3:Um, imagination in that is just, I know in the snark,
Speaker 2:I just love like the how of these bratty kids got there, come up and maybe I was a vengeful kid, but there's just something about that about like seeing the good one get rewarded and the others get what's coming to them. I mean, what kid doesn't love that? Cause it's every one,
Speaker 3:You know, it'll grade your fantasy of that, you know, that awful kid in class and you're just like, Oh one day, just one day it'll happen. But probably you can see where that pulled forward into your writing. Just like I look at outsiders, I see where it pulled forward into mine.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No, definitely things leave. They leave their Mark, they influence us long into the future. And I think in ways that we don't even fully realize, you know, sometimes you'll be writing a book and you, or you'll have written something. And then years later you'll think, you know what? I think that little detail came from X, Y, Z, you know, this thing in my childhood. And it's amazing how the subconscious can tie things together that you don't even realize it's happening
Speaker 3:Well. And that, again, that goes back to how influential those, those books are. But in that way, how great is it to, to realize that even without an intending it, we are raising the next generation of writers, um, who 10, 20, 30 years down the road are going to be better writers. We hope because of something that we may have written that's,
Speaker 2:That is exciting and also sort of scary. Do you find that scary at all? Does it feel like a lot of pressure to, you know, it's not pressure
Speaker 3:Because, um, because I trust, I trust young people, uh, you know, when, uh, when a book is released, it's, it's only half finished and the other half is when somebody picks up the book and then they bring to it, their life history, their, their interests, their needs, their passions. And then they, the reader completes the book. And so as long as I've done my job to write the best book I can, that reader will pull from it, everything they need and, and that's their job. And so I've done mine. And, and so, no, I don't, I don't consider it a pressure it's just privilege.
Speaker 2:No, that's a wonderful way to think about it. I am constantly amazed at the relationship that readers form to books. Um, and, and of course to my books and to my characters and the, you know, just the way that people respond in ways that I couldn't have perceived when I was writing it, I couldn't have imagined how some things would go on to impact people. Um, and it's one of those things that I've, you know, since the beginning of my career, I've thought, well, this is so cool. Of course, to know that the books are going out and making a difference in people's, but there's also been, always been a part of me that thinks like that. That's, that's weird. I'm just writing silly little science fiction stories. What I know about,
Speaker 3:But I, I look at it as, you know, these silly science fiction stories that you write, um, become empowering. And, and that reader who needs confidence, she finds it in one of the books that, that reader who, uh, wants courage. She finds it in one of your books because she pulls from it, what she needs at that time. Um, I have a neighbor who, who is just geeking out that I get to talk to you, and I can tell you firsthand what your books have done for her. And, uh, and so, yeah, it's, it's, it's a great thing. Um, uh, Juul Parker, Rhodes calls, uh, writing for young people, a sacred, um, a sacred duty. And I think she is spot on.
Speaker 2:So that makes me wonder. So you have written both middle grade and young adult when you're, you know, you get an idea for a story you're inspired by something you're excited to write it. Do you know immediately what age group that idea is for, or do you kind of consider and play around with it? How would it feel as a WIA? How would it feel as a middle grade?
Speaker 3:Well, this is the part of the podcast where I start to sound just a little bit crazy.
Speaker 2:We all do. It's okay. I know
Speaker 3:All writers. I hope you're going to be like, yes, I get this. Uh, it's not so much about me, um, looking for the right age or the right character. It's about me listening for the character. I don't know if that resonates at all. Okay, good. Uh, but yeah, I listened for them. And then once I've got that character in my head, it's not about what I create them to be. It's about listening to who they are. And then all I have to do is ask them questions. They'll tell me the story, um, which then determines who it's for, but I don't create them. I just listen. And I'm glad you get that.
Speaker 2:Oh, I do. Absolutely. And I feel like all writers do, or at least certainly most writers. Uh, and it is one of those things where you try to talk to somebody who's not a writer or not a creator. You have these conversations where it's like, you know, well, I thought this character was this way, but then as I was riding along, they started to tell me, no, I actually am this. Or no, I actually grew up here or I'm really into knitting or whatever. I mean, they, they drop these little nuggets for you to discover then who knew that, that it feels like I am not creating this. I'm not making this up. There's someone talking to me and giving me this information.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes. All of that. And, and, and it's, but it's this great thing where we can all bond and unite as writers at any level, at any level where we're writing, we can all sit around the table and be like, yes, I get that about you. And so it's this great unifier that, that nobody else has to understand because we get it.
Speaker 2:Yes, no, it is a universal thing. And always wonderful to hear and be reminded that you're not alone. We all have these funny little eccentricities.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. For all wonderful reasons.
Speaker 2:Do you have, uh, Oh, that's good. I was going to ask if you have a favorite age group to write for, but I suspect I'm already, the answer is going to be, but go ahead. Do you have a favorite age group to write for, you know, not necessarily
Speaker 3:I've, I've, uh, I've written, you know, in various ways for various groups. Um, and so, no, I don't, I don't believe that I have a favorite audience. And in fact, I believe that a great story is for all readers that, um, you know, if, I mean, maybe not like there's some stuff and I think, well, maybe this is a little old for you right now, but, um, I mean, I've gotten mail from 80 year olds who were like, I just picked up your book and I just think that's fantastic. And I, I mean, I still love picture books. And so if, if I were to ever write a picture book, great it's for all ages. And so, no, I don't, I don't have a, I don't have a favorite age to write for. Um, I want to write, but I want to write for people who, who love reading, but also for people who've never finished a book, I wanna write for them. And they, and when I get that email that says, I have never read a book in my life till yours, that is just a showstopper of awesomeness for me.
Speaker 2:No, that is, that's one of the best, the best moments.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I want to come back, uh, to rescue. Um, cause one thing I really wanted to talk to you about was this inclusion of codes and secrets and ciphers and all this, you know, awesome spy things, because I'm just such a sucker for that. Anything does anything to do with codes or spies? Like my heart starts to beat faster and I just get really into it, even though I, myself and terrible at deciphering codes and figuring them out, I don't have the brain for it. Um, but I just love it and I love reading about it. And so I was curious. Okay. So first of all, easy question, did you come up with all of the codes yourself in this book?
Speaker 3:Yes. Yes. They are all mine and the ultimate code, the long one, I am like, I kept showing it to my family and I'm like, don't you? This is cool. And they're like, yeah, mom, that's great. And I'm like,
Speaker 2:Oh, there's so many layers of cool to this. Like you just pause,
Speaker 3:She ate it. And they're like, we'll pause and appreciate it over cake. And I'm like, I don't have cake. And so they didn't pause and appreciate it. They just, you know,
Speaker 2:That's funny, I guess they were,
Speaker 3:They were underwhelmed and, but that's okay. I was overwhelmed on my own behalf. Yeah, I did do these codes and, and I think they're actually pretty fun.
Speaker 2:I do too. No. And I think that it perfectly, it has a great code in a book to me, it's one that if a reader were to pause and think about it, they could potentially actually figure it out. And yet the hope of course is that it's tricky enough that it won't seem obvious, you know, that it will make sense why it takes the character enough time to figure it out. And I felt like the codes were just perfect and every time make figured something out, I was like, of course that's what it means. Of course, that makes sense. Um, and, and it just, it was just a really great balance of being tricky and sneaky and feeling like it could be a real secret message, but also like, but if I had maybe taken an hour, maybe I could have figured some of that out,
Speaker 3:All, it's all there. I mean, everything, everything that the reader needs to figure out any of the codes is right there. But, um, but one of the things I love for Meg's experience with it is sometimes she does get it wrong. You know, there's, there's a moment when she's on the train and she's so sure she's figured out a line of code and she approaches the conductor to say, you know, do you have a message for me? Where are you looking for me? And he has no clue what she's talking about and she's just wrong on it, which I think is also really important to reinforce that, um, a lot of code, um, deciphering is trial and error and she does make her errors, even though she's very good at codes, she does make her mistakes.
Speaker 2:Was it hard coming up with the codes or do you feel like you have kind of a, do you have a brain for it? Like, is this something that is just like really fun and kind of comes naturally to you? Or did you agonize, like if I were writing this, I would have agonized over this for a week.
Speaker 3:Well, I should say this. Um, I believe that any book writing is in itself a form of code, right? You've got a plot and you're trying to get an ending that is not super obvious. And so you're laying down your clues, you're letting the story unfold. Um, all of us as writers are working in a form of code. Um, and so I wouldn't necessarily say you don't have a brain for it. This is just not a specific in terms of world war II, spy codes. Maybe that can be explored, but
Speaker 2:No, when I look at you trying to make me feel better about that,
Speaker 3:I mean, what else is writing, but, but creating just a word, uh, sort of a puzzle. That's what pulls readers through it. But, uh, but when I was, when I was a kid, we used to get the Sunday paper, the, um, back of one of the sections of our paper was coats. And I used to snatch that thing. I would spend the whole day deciphering the codes on the back page of that newspaper. So it's always been a part of me and, uh, and it is something I just find absolutely fantastic and fascinating of how throughout history people have tried to send messages in secret. I love that.
Speaker 2:I love that too. Now. I think it is just so interesting and I love it at the back of this book. You have a, uh, short author's note where you kind of talk about some of the codes and give some more codes if readers want to take the time to try to figure them out. And you also mentioned this code that was found, um, in a chimney after world war II was over, uh, the, you know, it was probably on a carrier pigeon. I think it was. And that the carrier pigeon probably got trapped in the pit in the chimney and died. And to this day they haven't figured out what this code says. And I just think that is so cool that somebody still has the potential to figure that out. That there's still that mystery out there just waiting to be solved
Speaker 3:Well, and even more important about that, um, code because you're right. It is fascinating, but in addition, we know the date on it and that was D-Day in Normandy. And so that cannot be a coincidence that it was sent on the day of, of that great assault on the beach. And so, um, so yeah, if, uh, if any of your readers out there ever get it solved, I will be the first to read about it. Cause I, I just love it.
Speaker 2:No, no, I hope I hope that it does get solved. Cause obviously I know I'm not going to be the one to solve it, but I want somebody to solve it because just my curiosity would just drive a person, nuts,
Speaker 3:Human nature. I mean, there's, there's so many examples of, of codes and, and people will work on them and work on them because it's, it's the not knowing that drives us forward. And uh, and I mean, that's just as fascinating as the creation of the code is people who will dedicate months and years of their lives to, uh, to decoding. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes. And then I can only imagine that feeling of accomplishment, you know, when you not even just solve the entire code, but with every little step forward, every little part that you figure out, I can just, you can feel it inside just what an incredible feeling that would be.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, again, I mean, going back to the idea of, of codes for young people, there's a lot of, uh, skill that, um, a student has to develop in order to decode something, you know, in terms of law and, and reasoning and rationalizations and things like that. And, and so in an academic way, uh, encouraging kids to solve codes is very, very good for them. It's one of the rare opportunities academically where we don't give them the answer and then say, okay, spit it back to me for a grade. It's like, Nope, figure this out. And that we need so much more of as, as these kids emerge as adults and that skills. So teaching is so good for kids in my opinion. I know
Speaker 2:I completely agree. And even as we're talking in my little, a homeschooling mom, brain is turning and I'm like, I bet there's a bunch of books out there about codes and ciphers for kids. They would love that
Speaker 3:They absolutely would because it's, it's such a human instinct to solve. So yeah, I get them to code. I think that would be awesome. So you're a little kindergartner.
Speaker 2:Maybe even I'll learn something. Maybe I could be, get a little bit better. Maybe that world war two message. I don't know
Speaker 3:You do do. And then I, I will just cheer you on,
Speaker 2:Okay guys, I'm giving a book writing, I'm becoming a code decipher.
Speaker 3:I have a bunch of people just like semi panicked is in your spare time solve a 80 year old code. Right,
Speaker 2:Right. We all need a hobby. Okay, Jennifer, we are going to wrap this up with our happy writer bonus round. Yeah. First up, what book makes you happy?
Speaker 3:Uh, Harry Potter and the prisoner of Azkaban. What
Speaker 2:Is your personal mantra
Speaker 3:On never quit?
Speaker 2:What is one small thing that brings you a lot
Speaker 3:Of joy? My family,
Speaker 2:That's a small thing.
Speaker 3:Okay. All right. We're going to go. Small thing is still going to be about my family. Um, is, um, when I get a phone call from my kids who are not living at home, absolutely adore that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:How do you celebrate an accomplishment
Speaker 3:Ice cream, but to be fair, that's how I celebrate everything. And that's how I get through hard things and really just exist. So I, them,
Speaker 2:What advice would you give to help someone become a happier writer,
Speaker 3:Happier writer. This is actually going to take just a little bit longer. Um, but it's really important. Um, don't, I mean, you need constructive criticism from people who are trying to make you a better writer, but in terms of reviews, don't read the good ones and don't read the bad ones because neither are going to help you. Um, the bad reviews will just kill your desire to write. And the good reviews are like crack. They feel good the first time, but then if you haven't had a good review in a while, it'll start to feel like you need another hit of a good review. And so you start chasing good reviews and that is not helpful. So, um, take constructive criticism from people who want to help you write better, but, um, for published and unpublished writers, um, right, because you love it. Don't worry about reviewers. No, I think that is phenomenal advice. Thank you.
Speaker 2:What are you working on next?
Speaker 3:Um, I am finishing up a world war, one story that, um, I'm really excited about it. This will be called lines of courage. It is all, all five years of the war told from the perspective of five different characters each from a different country. So it's pretty ambitious, but I'm super excited. And then I'm starting a, I don't even know what red is, but it's about a boy with no memory, but he, uh, he knows he's in hiding from some pretty bad guys and he, uh, he has a Sharpie. And if he writes on his forearm, if it's true about himself, it stays on the surface of the skin. If it's not true, it's soak sand. And every day writes down a different name, trying to figure out his name and every day it's soaks in. But, uh, on the weekend this boy goes, uh, to volunteer the old folks home. Cause if he plays games with the old folks, they feed him and he's playing ball one day and he shakes the dice. And when they land, he reads out the words, they know you are here, go. So, uh, that is black ink and it should be out well, I'm going to, I'm writing it right now.
Speaker 2:That sounds so good and so intense. I love it.
Speaker 3:Thank you, lastly,
Speaker 2:Where can people find you online?
Speaker 3:My website is, uh, Jen nielsen.com. I am on Twitter and Instagram as Nielsen writer, or you can look up my author page on Facebook. Um, if you go to my website, there's a contact me button. I am love to hear from you. I respond to everything. Maybe not as timely as I wish I could, but I always will respond.
Speaker 2:Awesome, Jennifer, thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 3:Thank you. What a great podcast you have and to all of your listeners, uh, just keep writing, just
Speaker 2:Keep writing, be happy and be grateful for this wonderful thing we get to do on that note readers. Be sure to check out rescue, which is available now, of course, we always encourage you to support your local indie bookstore if you can, but if you don't have a local indie, you can also check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marissa Meyer. If you're enjoying these conversations, please subscribe and leave a review on Google or Apple podcasts. You can follow us on Instagram at Marissa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy and cozy in your bunkers and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling a little bit
Speaker 1:[inaudible].