Marissa chats with Lizzy Mason about her new YA novel - BETWEEN THE BLISS AND ME - as well as writing song lyrics and how it's not the same thing as writing poetry; tackling ethical dilemmas in your fiction that encourage your readers to ask big questions; using journaling as a method for working through periods of grief; and keeping notes of things you love about the book you're writing and why you were drawn to it in the first place, which will be useful information for your future publicist!
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Order The Happy Writer: Get More Ideas, Write More Words, and Find More Joy from First Draft to Publication and Beyond https://bookshop.org/a/11756/9781250362377
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa chats with Lizzy Mason about her new YA novel - BETWEEN THE BLISS AND ME - as well as writing song lyrics and how it's not the same thing as writing poetry; tackling ethical dilemmas in your fiction that encourage your readers to ask big questions; using journaling as a method for working through periods of grief; and keeping notes of things you love about the book you're writing and why you were drawn to it in the first place, which will be useful information for your future publicist!
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Order The Happy Writer: Get More Ideas, Write More Words, and Find More Joy from First Draft to Publication and Beyond https://bookshop.org/a/11756/9781250362377
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
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Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books, to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I'm your host Marissa Meyer. Thanks for joining me on our Instagram this month, we are talking about all things spring and we are having a, another contest. So if you haven't entered yet, we would love to see your favorites spring stuff. Is it two lips? Is it baby bunnies? Is it spring cleaning? What is it about this time of year? That brings you a little bit of joy. Uh, the contest ends on April 30th. That is just a couple of days away. So don't dally and you could win a free book, either one of mine, or you can choose any book from a previous podcast guest. Uh, so again, check it out. Our Instagram is at happy writer podcast. As for me, what spring things don't make me happy. I love so much about this time of year, but I am going to go with butterflies specifically for one of our kindergarten homeschool science activities. We ordered one of those, uh, grow your own butterfly kits, which I had never done before, but we received a bout a week and a half ago, and the caterpillars were teensy tiny, like about the size of a grain of rice. And since then they have gotten humongous. And just as of this morning, we woke up and they had all climbed to the top of their little jars and formed their little Crystalyn things. And you could actually like see their wings starting to grow behind this membrane. And I don't know if I'm using any of these science terms correctly, uh, who am I? I'm just the teacher. Um, but it's so cool. It's so fascinating. And I cannot wait for them to turn into actual butterflies. It is like magic science just blows my mind and that is making me super, super happy this week. And of course I am so happy to be talking to today's guest. She's a book publicist, an avid traveler and the author of the art of losing her newest novel between the bliss and me just came out earlier this month. Please. Welcome Lizzie Mason. Thank you so much for having me Marisa, thank you for being here. I'm super excited to talk to you. Me too. I know it's been so long. My son and I have known each other for many years. I was on with her for cinder way back in the day I was going to mention like, we have history, you and you're not who, what publisher are you with now?
Speaker 3:I am with page street. So, um, yes. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, it was with McMillan and then Bloomsbury. And now with Paige street. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes. Yes. So way back, almost 10, long years ago, Lizzie was one of my publicist. And I remember you coming to Seattle for my very first stock signing trip and I know, Oh my gosh, where does the time go?
Speaker 3:I can't believe it's been almost 10 years. That's that's really hard to believe.
Speaker 2:I know. I know. Um, I'm trying to think. Cause with cinders ten-year anniversary coming up, I've started to think we like me and McMillan should do like a ten-year anniversary sort of. Um, and I can't believe we're there already that I have to start thinking about 10 year anniversary stuff.
Speaker 3:Wow. Yeah. That is hard to believe. Yeah, but you definitely should. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, I know. I have to give it some thought, I guess I still have early in April, so, right. Um, so as in my intro, we talked about favorite spring stuff. What are some of your favorite things this time of year? Um,
Speaker 3:Apparently so I've, I've been really happy to just get outside and be walking again. Um, it's been, you know, it's been a long winter. Um, so I was, and like I'm down in Northern Virginia now and I was up in Massachusetts for a while before this. And there's such a difference between when the seasons start changing. So I was really, really happy to just see, see the flowers blooming on the trees, see the cherry blossoms down here in DC. Um, really, you know, any sign of spring. I am just thrilled to see it. My favorite thing is like I miss the beach and swimming in the ocean so much. So like the fact that we're getting warmer and closer to that possibility feels very exciting to me
Speaker 2:Are the oceans they're warm. I wouldn't say warm ghosts, swimming in the ocean here in Washington, but it is freezing cold. It's never not cold, right? Yeah. No, I mean, it can be,
Speaker 3:It's definitely warm enough to swim in like July and August. So yeah, where it's like
Speaker 2:Still freezing cold, but in the way it feels good. Cause it's so hot outside.
Speaker 3:Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely not like Florida warm, but it is closer to a swimming pool or
Speaker 2:Got it. Okay. Let's talk about your new book. Why don't we start with you telling listeners about between the bliss? Me?
Speaker 3:Sure. Um, so between the bus and me is about a girl named Sydney who has just graduated from high school and she is about to go to college in New York city when she finds out that her dad who left when she was a toddler, um, who she thought was just, you know, sort of, uh, um, like drunk and alcoholic, um, drug addicts, he's actually homeless and has schizophrenia and has been living on the streets of New York. So she realizes that, um, she can now have the opportunity to potentially find him. Um, it's not going to be easy. Of course, finding someone who is unharmed is not an easy thing to do, but she wants to sort of get a sense of him. Um, but she also does some research and realizes that schizophrenia, uh, there's about a 10% chance that a child will inherit it from their parents. Um, and she starts to wonder whether or not she will have the same mental health issues. She's, she's already spent struggling with anxiety for many years. Um, and she's starting to struggle with depression. Um, so she then wonders. She's been seeing, she's talking to an imaginary friend sort of version of her dad's and she was a kid. Um, and she always just thought that like he was something that she made up, um, on her own. But now she's starting to wonder if there's something more to it. So it's a, it's a reflection on our mental health system and the way that we treat the mentally ill in this country. Um, but it's also about finding yourself and finding your bliss and figuring out, you know, who you are as a person when you're at such a pivotal time in your life.
Speaker 2:So I first want to ask a question that might seem a little random, but the title between the bliss in me. Sure. Could you explain it there about finding your bliss, but I was trying to, after I finished the book, cause I love the title. I love the feel of the title when I wasn't really sure if I was reading it into it, what I think I'm supposed to.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So of course though, so I tend to be really bad at coming up with titles. Um, so alone there is one, I think it is one of the hardest parts of writing a book is finding the right title. Um, so I tend to look to my favorite poems. Um, the art of losing was, um, stolen from a poem by Elizabeth Bishop, between the bliss and me is from the poem from Emily Dickinson. And, and it's about, it's a poem that's about when you are looking for something that you, that will make you happy and you get it, it doesn't always end up being exactly what you thought it was going to be. Um, and I think that that's really a good reflection for this book. You know, Sydney is sort of really trying to figure out who she is. She's really caught up in who she should be and who her parents, her mom wants her to be at, who her grandparents wanted her to be. Um, and she doesn't actually really know who she is and what she wants. She's just been doing what everybody else wants for her. Um, and she's a singer and she really, she wants to be a musician, but she knows that that's not really a practical thing to do, um, in terms of like having a career. So she decides to go to business school instead and she realizes that like, she doesn't have to necessarily just do one or the other. Um, she can follow her bliss and, and herbalists can lead her in a lot of different directions. So partly I just really loved the, um, I love the poem and I love the, the, the message behind it, but I also feel like it worked really well for the message of the book. I also, so when I was doing research for this book, I remember reading, I can't, I wish I could remember what book it was in, but, um, I remember reading that line between Loveless and me in one of these books that I was reading about schizophrenia. And I was like, Oh, that's perfect. I have to remember that. So I wrote it down.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad that I asked because that was a little bit to ask. Cause it's one of those things that's like, should be obvious. Am I just not getting it? I love hearing that explanation and I agree it does fit the theme really well. And now I'm going to have to go look up that poem so that I can read it.
Speaker 3:Yes. It's in the beginning of the book, um, like it's right in the front and you should be able to find it easily.
Speaker 2:Okay. I read it on my E reader. Um, yeah. So I don't, I don't remember seeing it, but I'll go back and look.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, it's also, you know, it's in the public domain, so it's easy to find them.
Speaker 2:Right, right. I think I could probably find it with a little bit of effort. Yes. Okay. So you mentioned research, um, and, and that was something that I really wanted to talk to you about because obviously this book is dealing with a lot of tough things. You know, a lot of we're, we're talking about mental health, we're talking about, uh, schizophrenia, we're talking about the broken healthcare system and the reform. I mean, there's so many are prison reform. I mean, there's just a lot, that's being tackled in this story and reading it, like it's clear that you must have had to do a ton of research for it. And I can imagine that a lot of that research was probably really difficult to read through at times. Um, so how for you personally, how did you go about researching this book? Um, and obviously wanting to write the story as authentically as possible while also kind of trying to protect your own mental health at the same time, or do you feel like you were even able to, you know, it's interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I, um, I did a lot of research for this book, but the original idea really came from the fact that I, so I was, my husband passed away a year ago, which I think, you know, but, um, yeah, I mean, it's, it's heartbreaking, but he was so supportive of me as a, you know, as a partner. Um, and he didn't have to deal with mental illness really not until he got sick. Um, but he, he was so supportive of me when I was struggling. I have anxiety and depression, which I've dealt with since I was a teenager. And so kind of thing that comes in, you know, it comes and goes and it, you kind of continuously have to deal with it. And I always felt like a burden to him, um, because I could never just be normal or at least what I felt like I should be in terms of being normal. Um, and, and he would always say like, you're not, you're not a burden, you, you know, view, and this is who you are. And, um, you know, he would just, he would hold me when I cried or he would pick me up when I was down. Um, he was such a source of strength for me. And so in this book, Sydney is really struggling. Um, she has a boy that she likes and she feels like she's not worthy of love because she doesn't know what her future will bring. Um, so that was partly where the inspiration for this came from. And then I started reading a lot of books about, about mental health. Um, but particularly about usually it's from a parent who's writing, um, about their child because Hm. Um, you know, that's just sort of the way that it goes. Usually it's an older person who has had this experience, who's writing these books. Um, and, and there's no way to talk about particularly bipolar disorder and schizophrenia without talking about the prison system because our mental health system is so broken. There's just not room for people to be treated in state hospitals or in private hospitals. Um, and a lot of mentally ill people are essentially kept in presence because there's nowhere else for them to go. Um, and it's not a healthy way to treat them and it's not, it's not a way for them to really be treated, it's just housing for the most part. Um, so, so I couldn't really separate the two, um, which sort of led me down the path of, of Sydney's dad, um, having been arrested multiple times. And, um, and that just sort of happens when people are living on the streets. So, but I also was sort of inspired my, um, there is, you know, a lot of mental health history in my family. Um, but we also have a history of Alzheimer's and that's the kind of thing that sort of sits with you as a, you know, throughout your life, because you don't know what's going to happen. Um, in the future, you know, my grandmother had Alzheimer's and she really didn't couldn't even talk or recognize anybody for almost the last 10 years of her life, which was heartbreaking. And so, you know, there's, there's this kind of how, you know, um, there's this kind of like just sort of shadow cast over the potential future, um, and whether or not that's something that I'm dealing with someday. So there's sort of, it came from that. Um, and then I also, I worked with, I worked for a, um, Eric volunteered really for a transitional home in New York, which is, um, a place where people who were unharmed and living on the streets are able to come and stay while they're being considered for permanent housing. Um, so it's really, it's, it's a little bit more than a homeless shelter because it is somewhat more permanent. Um, but it is a very much transitional space. People, you know, they have a bed and they have sort of a cubicle, but they don't have a lot more than that. So I started doing a writing program and I was working with, um, it was always, you know, usually a different group of people each week who would come in and hang out with me. But, um, we would, you know, we would talk, we would write letters to their families or we would write poems. Um, uh, most of the time we would just talk, you know, I think they just wanted a chance to get out of their, their rooms or get away from like, you know, the TV, um, the other people there. And it was really, it was wonderful experience for me, but I hope it was also a wonderful experience for them. Um, and it was one of the things that I was sad as to leave when I left New York. But a lot of those people who I worked with were really influential in shaping the character of Sidney's dad and his book.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Wow. You have so many personal ties to story and, and I can tell, just listening to you talk about it, how much this books book must mean to you and being able to tell this story.
Speaker 3:It does. Yeah. I mean, this was, it was, I mean, I, you know, I've written multiple books before the, of losing was published, but I think this one was the most difficult, partly because the art of losing is very much a personal story and that there's a lot of my history in it between the bus and me is really personal in the sense that like, there's a lot of things that I care about in it. Just less of me aside from really like Sydney's experience of dealing with anxiety that is very much based on my personal experience. Um, and you know, I mean, there's, I think we as writers, we always put a lot of ourselves into our books. Um, but yeah, I had to do a lot more research for this one than I normally would have for other books. Cause I really, it was so important to me to get it right. Um, and, and to, to really discuss the ethics of, of treating somebody who doesn't want to be treated. I mean, Sydney's dad is, um, is living on the streets by choice and he's unmedicated by choice because he, he doesn't like the side effects. He doesn't think that he wants to be on medication and that's a choice that he made and that his family kind of just has to accept, um, which is really, really hard for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, there's a lot of big questions asked in this book and a lot of big questions that don't have answers or at least don't have easy answers. Um, and I appreciate that as a reader, when a book can really dig down into a, you know, an issue that is facing the, the larger world around us and make me think about it and you'll make a reader ask those questions and wonder what would I do and how do I feel about this and what does need to change? Right. Obviously on this podcast, we talk a lot about the power of books and the power of literature. And I do think that, you know, this is the sort of book where you get people asking these questions, hopefully at a young age and maybe it will lead to something. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I hope, you know, this is the kind of thing where schizophrenia starts to present around the late teens, early twenties, um, which is generally, you know, T a Y a readers' age. Um, so I'm hopeful that it will at least if not, you know, affect somebody or influenced somebody specifically, personally, at least it will get them more empathy for people who are things like this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. I'm curious, working with the people at the transitional home and doing kind of a writing program with them, did that in any way, do you feel impact your writing or how you think about writing?
Speaker 3:It's funny. I spent, so Sidney is a, um, she's a singer and she writes lyrics and I spent almost every one of those writing sessions. I would try to write that song.
Speaker 2:I was going to have, it was
Speaker 3:So hard, but it was the only time that I ever really felt inspired to write lyrics was when I was there. Um, so somehow being in that environment made me feel inspired to write lyrics in a way that I hadn't been able to when I was just sitting in front of my computer or on the subway with my phone or whatever. Um, and I don't know why that was, but I think, um, it was just such a different place and it was, it put me in such a mindset and I think I really needed that. So, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it definitely inspired a lot of, of this book. Um, and really there were some incredible people who I worked with there who had, had really terrible experiences or who had really, you know, overcome a lot of, a lot of really terrible experiences. Um, and they were, they themselves were really inspiring to me.
Speaker 2:I was particularly curious about the song lyrics, um, because I only once, way, way back when I used to write fan fiction, I had one story where I had to write a song for her. That was like one of the most agonizing writing experiences of my life. Trying to write a song
Speaker 3:Really did not give it enough, like give songwriters enough credit before trying to write these lyrics. Cause I was like, I mean, I wrote poetry. I write poetry all the time. Like I could totally do it. The smell. It is not the same.
Speaker 2:No, that's, that's the idea. It seems like it would just be like writing poetry, but it is so not the same thing. Do you, are you a musician?
Speaker 3:I, I mean, I'd sing somewhat, um, not well, but I, I, I really enjoy singing and it's something that I, um, loved doing, especially when I was in high school. Um, and then, you know, I just sort of, it didn't become part of my adult life aside from like karaoke and singing in the car and things like that. But I do really love it. And I like in my, you know, fantasy life, that would be what I would do.
Speaker 2:I had that fantasy too. I have no singing talent, but, um, but I was wondering if the reason I ask if you're a musician is, cause I am curious if there's been any, uh, opportunity to try to actually get the song lyrics that you wrote put to music.
Speaker 3:So it's funny in my head, I did write them to, to music and I could sing, I won't sing them, but I, I, you know, I know I don't even know if I could remember them at this point if they wrote them, but I, when I was writing them, I did like write them to music in my head. I just am not, I can't read music. I don't play any instruments. So it's not something that I was ever able to do. That being said, I do have a friend who's a composer. And, um, he did offer like if I wanted to someday, um, we could work together. So who knows?
Speaker 2:Oh, it would be, I would love to hear them because the lids are wonderful.
Speaker 3:Oh, thank you. I mean, they're very like teen angsty, but that's what is going through, I've written an angsty teen book. So what are you going to do? But yeah, I mean, music, music plays such an important part in this book. Um, so it felt like Sydney really needed to be writing her own music too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no. And I loved that about this book. Um, my contemporary that came out last year, instant karma also has a huge music influence. Um, and, and so I, I loved that. I loved in the book, you know, Sydney has this playlist, that was her father's playlist, that she has this huge heartfelt connection to. And she goes back to this playlist, you know, again and again, how, how did that come about? Like how did it, the story evolve to integrate the playlist and just to have so much music, there's so many musicians, there's so many references to music throughout. Yeah,
Speaker 3:I think so music really played a big part in my childhood and just the sense that my house was always full of music. My parents are always like, even when my mom was cleaning the house, she would have like Gloria Estefan or like Carol King or somebody like that on. Um, and, but really my dad. So when I was growing up, he had this mix tape that he had made, um, and it was called boogie and it was largely like, you know, late seventies or eighties pop music. Um, it was like foreigner and Michael Jackson and the rolling stones and Jonathan Edwards and, um, and so, and he played it over and over and over again, every time we would got in the car, that was what was playing. And so it it's really just like the soundtrack of my childhood. And anytime I hear one of those songs, I think of my dad. So, um, so when I was writing this book, I felt like, so what could, what connection could Sydney have to her dad that is, you know, sort of easy to maintain, um, that's, you know, sort of small and easy for her to like carry around and, and connect to. Um, and because she was a musician and because she's, you know, she's got her friend Elliot, this band that she's part of, um, it just made sense to have her have this connection to her dad through music and have him be a musician too. So, and I think, you know, a lot of musicians do deal with mental illness. So it seemed like reasonable, um, that he would be a musician too.
Speaker 2:No, that I think it's maybe is it mentioned in the book, the, the, I mean, I I'm confusing it now. Sorry. Um, cause while I was reading the book, I was having a conversation with my husband, um, about the, what do they call it? It's not the 27, it's not club, but a lot of famous. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. Jimi Hendrix, Amy Winehouse, Janice Joplin.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And it's like this weird number, like why age twenties. Um, yeah, but anyways, he was telling me about it that there's like this, somebody has created a computer program we're going off on, this is such a tangent, I'm sorry,[inaudible], I'm here for it. That like they feed in, like, let's say all of the doors music, and then the computer program takes that and spits out an original quote unquote doors song really. And it's such a bizarre thing. Um, but he played one that someone had done for Kurt Cobain. Uh, and it sounded like a Nirvana song. Like it was very good, very well. This is so bizarre. But anyway, tangent is real sad. It's
Speaker 3:Really wow. Okay. I'm going to have to look that up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's fascinating. And artificial intelligence. Yeah. Um, anyway, so, and so I was, we were having that conversation while I was sitting there with your book in hand and it just kind of started to overlap for me. Do you, I imagine you must have a playlist that you worked on while you were writing this book.
Speaker 3:I do. I mean, it was largely like my iTunes. I would scroll through my iTunes and I would also listen to like Apple radio. I would put on like the eighties pop or something, you know, seventies, classic, classic rock. Um, and so I would sort of listen to certain songs on repeat, trying to sort of get in the head space that I needed to be in. Um, but, um, I haven't actually created, like, I haven't fully finished creating this playlist and I meant to before this book came out, but time got away from me and it's now like on my to-do list. So I will get it done
Speaker 2:Songs like specific songs referenced in the book that it would be cool to be able to, you know, go and listen to things while Sydney is listening to
Speaker 3:Them. Right. Yeah. No, it's true.
Speaker 2:So in all of those moments where you mentioned, you know, she goes to her playlist and she puts on this specific song, did you agonize over those choices? Like, Oh, what song would be perfect for this scene? Kind of be like iTunes, what should it be?
Speaker 3:Yeah, usually honestly, like most of the time when the song just kind of came to me without having to think about it. Um, and I think it's partly because like most of the songs that she references are my favorite songs, like when she's singing Sam cook, um, or her, you know, when her dad is singing Sam cook, like that is something, that's a song that I love, bring it on home to me. Um, and so pretty much every song that's in there is meaningful to me in some way. Um, and so it was just really easy for me to choose, choose my favorites.
Speaker 2:Do you have a theme song for this book?
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a really hard one. I don't, but now I need to come up with your homework for the day. I mean, so she, one of the original, one of the first songs that she sings for with her friend Eliot's band is I want a new drug by Huey Lewis and the news, one of my all time favorite songs. And so I feel, and I feel like it's, it's appropriate in a lot of ways for this book. Um, and of course, like she turns it into sort of this like emo, um, sad indie song instead of being a pop, like synth eighties song. And so like that version, which doesn't actually exist, it's just in my head, um, that I think really is mostly the, the theme song for this class, but
Speaker 2:Okay. I want to briefly talk also about the other half of your career being an awesome book publicist, first of all, how do you feel that being a publicist working in publishing, do you feel like that has impacted the way you think about your career or how you market or publicize your own books? I do. I know. I think, I think it's
Speaker 3:Good and bad in a lot of ways. Um, it's given me, it gives me a really good perspective on things. I know, you know, when to, when to not panic about stuff, you know, I know what the timeline should be for things. Um, and if something's not happening, then, you know, I can often reach out to somebody and figure out how to make it work on my end instead of having to ask my publisher for it or my agent or whoever. Um, but I think in a lot of ways, it also makes me jaded and like, when something really good happens, I'm like, Oh, sure. But that happens for a lot of people,
Speaker 2:Like
Speaker 3:Surrounded by writers all the time. I tend to just feel like, Oh, well, everybody it gets published.
Speaker 2:Um,
Speaker 3:And I was talking to a friend of mine and he was saying like, you know,
Speaker 2:You like, you are like, you're part of, sort of,
Speaker 3:It has been like in the NBA. Like you may not be like Michael Jordan. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But you're still in the NBA. That's a good analogy. Um, and like most people don't
Speaker 3:Let me get that far. And I was like, okay, that's a really good way of thinking of it. So I try to remember, um, you know, when good things happen or when bad things happen, like to put them in perspective. Um, and I think having had a lot of years, I won't date myself and just say, how long I've been doing this, but a lot of years in this industry, um, it's, you know, it's really helpful. And I have some really, really strong connections with booksellers and educators and, um, and other authors and things like that that have been really, really useful. Um, but it also is a little bit like I know how the sausage gets made. And so I, you know, I, I am jaded and I kind of know, um, I know when to, you know, when to ask for things and when not to. And, um, and I also think it makes me feel like I, um, I don't necessarily deserve everything that everybody else has gotten or, you know, I mean, I think, I think that's also just part of my personality.
Speaker 2:Um,
Speaker 3:I'm a little bit like Sidney, my mom, because I always am sort of like tend to look toward the negative side of things. And I'm trying to, to work on that
Speaker 2:Is not allowed here on this podcast. We are silver lining focused. I love it. I know,
Speaker 3:Especially since Carl died, I've been working really hard to sort of change my perspective. And when he, when he died, I really felt I was, I struggled for a few months and then I was, I sort of had to have a chat with myself and be like, okay, well, like you can't just sit here and be miserable. Like, what are you going to do instead? And so I sort of picked myself up off the floor literally and try to turn my life around. And I, you know, moved and came home to be with my family and started doing yoga and meditating and like doing a lot of things that were good for me. And it really, and like, I also like talked to my psychiatrist and increased my, you know, edit depressant dosage and things like that. Um, and I think that that's like, that's something that's been really important for me to remember is that like, I'm, I can't just sit and be stagnant, you know, I have to keep moving and looking forward. And, um, so I feel like I've, I'm less fragile than I thought I was. And I've learned a lot from the last year. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We had a, an episode, um, here, um, after my grandma passed away earlier this year, in which we kind of focused on writing during times of grief, um, having experienced that, I mean, would you have any suggestions to offer someone who might be going through something really tough, um, as far as relates to their writing or their career?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, honestly I sent, I sent the last year writing a book about grief, um, and you know, we haven't, we haven't announced it yet, but it was really, really cathartic for me to be able to put all of this, these feelings on the page in, in somebody else's story. Um, but I also spend a lot of time writing about Carl on like journal and keeping a daily journal just about my feelings and how I was doing from day to day. And what's most helpful for me is to be able to look back now a year later at where I was nine months ago, 10 months ago, and see just how vast the differences. And I think, you know, grief is cyclical it's, it comes and goes and it's, um, it's just sort of becomes part of who you are, but it also, you know, and so I, I don't think that I necessarily always going to feel this way, but like, I've, you know, I've turned a corner and, you know, I, I will, I probably tomorrow have another feeling of like moment of grief where I just have to sit and cry for 20 minutes, but I try to remember like that this is not, I will always feel that way. And I have proof of that because I can look back and see just how different I am today than I was before. Um, so yeah, I mean, I think I was, I'm always, I hate the word like journaling. It just sounds like it shouldn't be a verb
Speaker 2:Diaries,
Speaker 3:But keeping a journal was really, really helpful for me. And, um, you know, and I'm really grateful that I did it because it was, you know, I look back in there some really terrifying moments of me just in like the depths of despair and seeing how that I've come through it, um, makes me, you know, just have a lot more respect for myself and just see that I'm much stronger than I give myself credit for.
Speaker 2:Um, so I want to go back to your role as a publicist again. Um, just for one last question, obviously we have a lot of listeners who are pre-published. Um, let's go. So what in your expertise would you suggest that someone, um, before they have a publisher before they have a publicist helping them along, what can they be doing to make themselves, you know, a publicist and dream author?
Speaker 3:Um, I would say focus on why you're, why you're writing the story that you're writing. Um, having that backstory is really important, I think, and it doesn't have to be because your husband died and you're writing a story about grief, but, you know, I think having that story and just sort of keeping notes for yourself about what it is that you love about this book that you're writing is really important. Um, but I would say also making connections with other writers, whether they're published or not, I think is really important because again, it gives you that perspective that like you're not alone in this situation. Um, but you know, and so you have this group of people who, or even just one other person, um, who can give you perspective sometimes or talk you through the hard times we celebrate with you through the good times, and especially someone who will read your writing because having another set of eyes on your, on your writing is really, really important. Um, I think I have Jamie Patton is one of my critique partners, um, who I know you have spoken with in the past. And she, I don't know what I would do without her. I mean, she's, she's an incredible cheerleader, but she's also a really wonderful editor. And, um, I really love, you know, just being able to share our work with each other. And so I think, you know, finding somebody who you can work with, um, and share your writing with is, is probably a top of the list.
Speaker 2:I completely agree. I don't know what I would do without my writer, friends. Like just the community is so important. Um, yeah, just having people who know what it's like, cause people who aren't writers, they just can't fully grasp what is going on inside of our head.
Speaker 3:Exactly. I know people don't understand when you say like, Oh, these people live inside of my head, these characters, I know them, you know, other writers or, you know, other writers get it. People who are not Raiders. Just think you sound like something wrong with you.
Speaker 2:I know. I know. And I have days where, you know, if you're like in a part of the process where you have to brainstorm and it's just like a lot of thinking. And so there's days where I sit for hours on the couch with a notebook staring into space and I know to anyone else, it looks like I'm not doing anything, but it's a really important part of the process people.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Yes. I know. I mean, Carl used to say, like, he would get really frustrated when I wouldn't, when he would be talking and I wouldn't be listening and I'd be like, I'm sorry. I was just having dialogue in my head with some characters,
Speaker 2:A daily thing in our house. Like I said, trying to ignore you
Speaker 3:And you know, having to repeat himself.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh yes. Constantly husband too. I know. Yeah. Um, okay. Let's see, let's wrap this up now with our happy writer bonus round
Speaker 3:First off, what book makes you happy? Oh, that's a really hard question. I mean, there's so many books that make me happy. Um, I mean, really, I, I just talked about Jamie, but her new book, lucky girl is coming out next month and that book is so much fun. Um, I definitely recommend everybody read that. Um, I was also just talking about I'm at my event this week. Um, Ellen, Emerson white. I don't know if you ever read her when you were younger, but she wrote, um, my favorite book life without friends, but she also wrote this book, the president's daughter, which is about a girl who is the daughter of the first female presidents. And it's so fun and I highly recommend everybody read it.
Speaker 2:So I have to just interject since you mentioned, uh, Jamie Paxton's lucky girl, which I haven't read yet, but I have it and I'm super excited to read it. Um, and that seems like a good time to let everyone know that I'm going to be joining Jamie for her virtual launch party on May 11th. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I
Speaker 2:Feel weird. Like this is your episode, Lizzie.
Speaker 3:Oh, yes. I love Jamie and you know, I set up the event so it happy to promote it comes full circle.
Speaker 2:Um, how do you feel the creative? Well,
Speaker 3:Oh, usually by reading, um, I am most inspired to write after I've read something that I really love. So I tend to, you know, especially like when I used to read on the subway at night, on my way home from work, I would come home and just be so excited to write. Um, and now that I don't have that commute anymore, it's tough. So I've been reading, I've been listening to audio books while I go out for a walk during the day. And that has helped a lot.
Speaker 2:Do you have any writing rituals?
Speaker 3:Um, I wish I did. I'm not very good at writing rituals. I tend to just write whenever I can find time. Um, but generally I, you know, on the couch in front of my computer and just write as much as I can. I tend to not be very good at writing for long stretches. So I set timers for myself, um, 15 or 30 minutes, and then I get to take another 15 or 30 minutes off. Um, so because I just, I have ADHD and I don't focus well for long periods of time. So, um, I find that that works well for me. Yeah,
Speaker 2:No, same. The, the writing sprint is one of my favorite techniques as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:What are you working on next?
Speaker 3:Um, so like I said, I can't actually talk about it yet, but hopefully we'll be a little be able to announce it soon, but I do have a third book, um, that is going to be coming out next year. So, and it's about grief and it sounds really sad, but it does have some happy moments in it. And
Speaker 2:With this book between the bliss and meat, we didn't even touch on the fact that there is a romance. These are really cute. So I just point out that it is not sad stuff all the time, right? It's not all sad. It's not all like, you know, learning about the mental healthcare system. Lastly, where can people find you? Um, you can find me on Twitter and Instagram at Lizzie Mason, 21. And my website is Lindsey Mason, books.com. Awesome. Lizzie, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here and I'm honored. Thank you so much for having me. It was a really, really nice to hear your voice and touch bases with you here. 10 long years later. No. So hard to believe, but also the same time. I feel like, yeah, that sounds about right. It goes back and forth. Time is a weird, it is. Yeah. Especially pandemic time. Oh yeah. Gosh, ain't that the truth forever. All right. Readers. Be sure to check out. Lizzie's newest book between the bliss in me, which is available now, of course, we always encourage you to support your local indie bookstore if you can. But if you don't have a local indie, you can check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marissa Meyer. If you're enjoying these conversations, I would love it. If you subscribe and please leave us a review, you can follow us on Instagram at Marissa Meyer, author and app happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy and cozy in your bunkers and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling a little
Speaker 1:[inaudible].