Marissa chats with Arnée Flores about her debut middle grade fantasy - THE FIREBIRD SONG - as well as the importance of preparing for and practicing your elevator pitch; how to handle it when an agent or editor asks you to drastically trim your manuscript's word count - and one idea for what to do with all the content that gets taken out; how focusing on dramatic chapter endings can improve the overall pacing of your novel; and adapting your writing schedule to life with young kids. (Speaking of young kids, there is also a surprise visit from Sloane and Delaney and a butterfly!)
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa chats with Arnée Flores about her debut middle grade fantasy - THE FIREBIRD SONG - as well as the importance of preparing for and practicing your elevator pitch; how to handle it when an agent or editor asks you to drastically trim your manuscript's word count - and one idea for what to do with all the content that gets taken out; how focusing on dramatic chapter endings can improve the overall pacing of your novel; and adapting your writing schedule to life with young kids. (Speaking of young kids, there is also a surprise visit from Sloane and Delaney and a butterfly!)
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books, to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I'm your host, Marissa Meyer. Thank you for joining me. One thing that is making me happy this week, and I imagine it's probably making some of you happy to shadow and bone has finally come out on Netflix and I'm so excited. I've seen the first two episodes and I think it's just so excellently cast and I'm so smitten with Jesper, especially, and I just love it and watching it made me so giddy, uh, you guys know that I love Lee Libra Dugo she was a great guest here recently on the podcast. I'm so happy for her. If you haven't read the books, go read them and then definitely check out the show. Um, I'm, can't wait for my kids to go to bed tonight so that I can watch the next episode. And of course I am so happy to be talking to today's guest. She has had a very varied career from being a child actress to a pianist, a waitress, a call center worker, and a preschool teacher. Her debut novel. The Firebird song comes out next month on June 8th, please welcome our name Flores. Hi, I am so, so excited to be here. I am so excited to have you, and also super excited because we recently, uh, kind of, I guess, got to know each other or at least touched bases on Instagram and learned that we're local. So as soon as COVID is over, we're so going to go hang out and I'm so excited for sure. I can't, you know, I feel like Seattle has so many amazing authors and I just want to know them all and be best friends with all of them. And to add you to the group is just the most exciting thing ever. It's a really, really fabulous community. And I miss my writing friends terribly. Uh, I was saying before we started the recording that we used to once upon a time, get together and meet in a cute cafe or a little winery, and I'll sit around typing in utter silence and get weird looks from everyone around us. And it's just the best thing and I miss it terribly. So I can't wait. I will definitely be adding you to the invite list. Oh my gosh. I'm I'm internally screaming. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. How long have you been in this area? I have been here about six years. Okay. Where were you in for? It's so funny because actually many moons ago, before we were here, we were in the dowels and you actually were there for their, like why a book festival that that little shop was doing. And I had not decided I wanted to be a writer yet, but I wandered through the town that summer. And it was like a thousand degrees and I saw your table, but you were not there, but we were passing. We were passing ships. That's funny. I am almost positive that that is the festival for which I had lost my voice. I had terrible laryngitis. Um, and I remember sitting there at my little table in this adorable little bookstore and I had to have a sign explaining, like I cannot talk to you, but I will happily sign. I felt that's my bad. No, but everyone was just so excited. It was so amazing because it's such a small town, but the energy around that book festival was crazy. People were so excited to have writers there. Yeah. It was really great. I've been there been so many amazing festivals that I've been to over the years and some of them in, yeah, just like tiny towns, you know, quote unquote, middle of nowhere. You'd never think that there's this great book festival that is attracting like so many great authors and some of them just really pull out all the stops and make for a wonderful experience. And yeah. So, but I can't believe we almost met almost someday, someday. Yes. Before we go too much farther into our questioning and start talking about your book, I got to ask child actress. Oh no. So what's very funny is that I did not write that. And I actually emailed my publicist after that came out and was like, can we change that? That's so fleeting. Like I was not a child actress. I, so the story goes that I was scouted when I was 11. And I went and lived with a manager in LA and tried to be a child actress. I am what they call a failed child actress. But this is a sensitive topic. Not at all, not at all. It was a wonderful experience and I would've made it. I wasn't a good actress. It was, I don't know. I don't know. I got scouted for the look or something. I think that, I think that at the time I, when they chose me, they said, well, you have a great look because you could go for any role, you could be any kind of Asian or you could be Mexican, which is really offensive now. Right. But back in 1998, it was like, you just have to be the one diverse person. Oh, how weird, whatever. Yeah. That seems very late nineties thinking. Okay. They have changed that bio between yes. Yes. Well, I feel like I got in on a little secret there. Okay. Um, that note, why don't you tell listeners about the Firebird song? Oh yes, of course. I'm so excited to, to talk about it. And this is my very first podcast. So my first chance to chat about it, and it begins with a story, a tale so old that most people have forgotten it. And those who remember it are too afraid to tell it. It's about a young girl who somehow called the Firebird back to Lyrica during the last dark age. And as a reward, the Firebird gave her a feather and said that if ever she or any of her descendants held it in their hands and remembered its song, it would return. But the feather has vanished. And the last Firebird queen and her infant daughter were killed on the night of the terrible thing. When an evil sorceress attacked with her monsters of fire and Ash. Now, when we get to the story, Lyrica is a place of storms and chaos. The ancient spirits are angry. It's a place without warmth, where even a single spark can grow into a monster. Books are band and music is outlawed and little girls are stolen from their beds. Every one has lost hope. There is no joy anywhere. And the mysterious thing that begins, the story are three words that are written on the castle wall, wind woman thief. And those words will set off the adventure for two unlikely friends, a lost princess and a barge boy who will try to call the Firebird back. Yeah, sure. You were a terrible actress. I mean, I really want to know. I'm sure there is some evidence out there somewhere. He just painted such a wonderful tapestry of this. You've clearly been practicing that pitch because that moment, goodness. So I mean, my number one fear is talking about my book. I think, I think so many writers can say, if anybody ever asks me about my book, I just freeze up. It's so hard to talk about it. So yes, I have practiced that within an inch of its life. Oh my gosh. I feel like if people listening to this episode, if there is one thing they get from it, I hope it is to practice because it is so important and you're right. It is really hard to do it freaks us all out, having to talk about the book and take this huge, vast story and all of these concepts and boil them down to like a 32nd to a minute long summary, but you killed it right there. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's so funny. Cause you don't realize, oh, I'm also a sales person. I also have to sell this book and pitch it and convince people to read it. And then you sit thinking, why should people read it? And then talk about something that really will test you, right? No in your right. And that is, I think one of the hardest things about being an author at least this day and age is because we get into this career in this life because we love telling stories and you picture yourself like with your laptop and your cup of tea and peace and quiet, and then, you know, you get published and suddenly it's no go do school visits, go do festivals, go pitch yourself, do media outlets. And it's hard. It's a really uncomfortable thing for a lot of us. It's so is, and it's, I, I think about this and the difference between these are two totally different things. Being a writer and being an author, once you're an author, it's a totally different hat that you're wearing you. And I think that so many people think, oh, I want my writing to be out in the world and I want to be an author, but that's really something different entirely. It's, uh, it's so much fun and it's great. And I encourage people to do it, but it's definitely not the same as getting to just sit and write stories and put them out into the world and hope that, you know, people will read them. You have to really promote the book a lot. Yeah, no true. It's it's a second job on top of it. Yeah. Um, well you mentioned this, this idea of, you know, suddenly you had to ask yourself, like, why should anybody read my book? And I'm just going to go ahead and give you an answer from my perspective that reading this book brought me back to being nine, 10 years old and falling in love with, uh, like Robin McKinley books or like how's moving castle, like this genre of magical stories in which everything can happen and there's good versus evil. And there's these quirky characters and a prophecy and an epic quest. And just like so many of these like classic kids, fantasy tropes. And I loved it. And it made me really, really happy to, to kind of be back in that genre. I feel like it had been a long time for me and it really brought back a lot of good memories. Oh my gosh, I'm grinning so big right now, my cheeks hurt. That's just, my heart is beating really fast. That's such a beautiful thing to say. And that's exactly what I want readers to feel because that's why I'm writing middle grade. That's why I'm writing these stories is because I felt that love for these stories when I was a child, it's all I wanted to read. And in fact, I would go to the library and read the backs of all of these books, looking for books like this. And there were never enough. I had read them all. Yes. Now I remember one of, I have a really early memory of going to the public library and I'd like, I'd read the Narnia books and I loved fantasy. And I went up to the computer, the online card catalog and was like, okay, I want a book. And I just started typing things into the search bar. Like I want a book that has mermaids and a wizard and there, it has to be a treasure hunt and there's pirates and, you know, blah, blah, blah, just like this long stream of things that I wanted in a book. And it came back with zero matches. And that moment of realizing that the exact book that I wanted might not exist was like devastating for me. And then immediately thought, well, I should probably write that book then. Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, if you want that other people want that for sure. Yeah. Did you, so you, you, when you were creating this book and you said like you, you remembered these books and this feeling of love for this genre that you had as a reader, as you were writing, like how much were you keeping that forefront in your thoughts, trying to capture that feel and that vibe versus did it just kind of come about naturally because this is what you love. I absolutely was not intentionally trying to create that. I think that that trying to create something like that would, would probably lead to failure. Um, I just was writing from my heart and, and writing what I love. And so that came about naturally I am, I'm a pantser and it just sort of flowed into what it is. Talk to me about world building, because one, it's a really fun world and what I love, I love how you kind of constructed the story in a way that it felt like as both of the characters have never really explored, explored their world, they've kind of been trapped their whole lives. And so as they are going off on this adventure, they are uncovering these new things and it felt very much for a reader that were like along for the journey and we're discovering it at the same time. Um, and that was a very cool effect in the story. So what were some of your strategies for developing the world and making it, you know, magical and whimsical and the
Speaker 3:Whole spectacle of it all?
Speaker 2:Well, I think I should tell you that when I queried this book, this is, this is telling it was actually, I pitched it as, um, a middle grade fantasy, a hundred thousand words, so, oh yeah. He didn't end up as yikes. So I can't I'm really that any agent picked it with him because that's, that's a lot. So it ended up at 52,000, I think before we, um, went on sub and then after that, it grew to about 60, I think is where it is right now, but I had all of that space to create magic. And then once my fabulous and wise agent got it and said, my love, we are cutting all of this out. I had to really go in and find the most magical bits and the important pieces that really mattered the most editing. So that, that really helped. I think the a hundred thousand words was the exercise in creating the world and creating the magic. And you will probably be familiar, although I think not everyone will, but I really formed that world around the Pacific Northwest. Um, the rain and the mud. I wrote it in October here and it was raining and stormy and windy. And so that's where it began. And then they take this trip up the river that for me, was the Columbia river Gorge. The, the mountains were very much the cascades and this volcano was Mount St. Helens. And so I've really taken bits and pieces of where I live. The parts that I think are magical and turned them into this new world. How, I mean, what, so you, you get this email or phone call from your agent saying, oh, you really have to cut. Half of the book needs to go away. First of all, what was your reaction to that? And second, how did you go about do it like nitty gritty, the craft wise? What was your process? So when I, when I was querying and she came back to me and said, Hey, I really love this story. And I'd love to work with you. She offered me an RNR. She offered me the, this revision with her and she, she wanted to do it exclusively. And she said, this is kind of what I'm thinking. You're going to need to cut this out. And at that point I was so optimistic. I actually fell to my knees in my living room and it was just thanking God. I was just thinking, yes, I can do this. I'm S I can do anything that I'm asked to do. And I went into it just so excited. And I pulled out everything that she had said that she didn't want, because originally it was this one giant narrative, but every chapter in between was a fairy tale that would talk about the backstory. So it was all of these very tales, and she wanted those out and incorporated into the larger narrative. So I did that. I pulled them all out and my, I did have this, this moment of sadness for it, but I also thought, you know, someday, maybe I'll be able to publish these separately or give them away on my website or something will happen from these. And so I sent it back to her about a month afterward, I got it done super, super fast. And then I waited and they waited and they waited. And, uh, she sent me a letter on my birthday and said, no, this isn't it. This isn't it. And that is where devastation struck on my birthday, in the rain, on the book. I sat on this piece of wet driftwood, and I felt so sorry for myself. And she said, I need you to cut this entire character. I, I need this out and that out. And that's where I thought, what is the story without this character? This is what the story is. I don't see a way forward now. And I called my friend and I'm sobbing to her about it. And she did the, just the best thing, the thing that I needed right then, and she said, what is wrong with you? Stop it. You're feeling sorry for yourself. There are so many authors who would love to be where you are right now. She's giving you a chance to do it again. She's saying, let's keep working on this. And you're saying, there's no way forward. I'm going to quit. And having my friend just sort of give me tough love right. Then was exactly what I needed. And as soon as she did that, I thought, yes, of course, you're right. And I went back to work and I saw that I had not understood my own story. I thought it was these other characters, but it was really about the friendship between, you know, the princess and the barge boy. And that was what I focused on. And that's when we got the story that we have now. And so it's, it was just a journey. I think that when you work with an agent, when you work with someone else, who's, who's giving you editorial wisdom. It's really hard to come around mentally to that because you've written this book in private, in your own head and put all of your own love in it. And now someone else is coming and giving you their thoughts. And it can be really hard to come around. It can take a few days of thinking and understanding, but I will tell you that every time that I took the advice and I went with it, my story got stronger and better. And, and without their input, it would not be what it is today.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I'm
Speaker 2:Glad that you bring that up because I very recently here, like a month ago, had my revision letter back on my upcoming novel. Um, both for my editor and my critique partner. And I remember having a conversation with my husband after they were both emails had come into my inbox and I hadn't opened them yet. And I was like, this is my least favorite part of the whole process. I hate getting those letters and knowing there's more work to be done, knowing things are going to be picked apart. And, you know, it's, there's just that, that feeling in your gut, like, oh, I don't want someone to critique. And yet once you move past that, and you can start taking the advice and moving through to the other side, making it stronger and better, I'm always so happy afterwards. Yes. Completely. It's, it's such a hard thing to convince your brain to do the work that you know is ahead of it. Right. Right. It's so satisfying when it's done and the product is finished and you're like, yes, capable. Oh. And those breakthroughs that you're going to have are so magical and it's just, oh, it's the best. It's the best. It's just, there are some rough points. Right, right. Um, so you'd mentioned that you had these fairytale chapters that, you know, were, were removed and, you know, incorporated more into the, the narrative. Um, I love the idea of taking those and being able to turn them into some sort of like bonus content. Totally. Yes. I may do that at some point, but, but who knows? Right, right. No, it'd be fun. You could do like a little compilation of like, you know, Lyrica folktales or something. I would love, I would love to do that. I have, I have 50,000 Dexter words here, just sitting. Yeah.[inaudible] um, I want to talk about one of the, if not the biggest theme in the book, uh, which is the idea of hope and hope is, I mean, it's just kind of built into everything it's in the characters and the plot and the world building it all kind of revolves around initially this idea that it is a world without hope. Um, and then of course, as the story goes on, hope begins to flourish. And it's just beautiful. Um, at what, when you were writing and conceptualizing this story, did that idea of hope start to become so integral to the story I knew right away that that was what I wanted to do. I knew before I ever put pen to paper that I wanted to examine what hope was I wanted to, I wanted to look at it from different angles, different perspectives. Some people see hope as a negative thing. Some people don't want to hope because it's let them down. And what does that look like? I, I came into it with this question of really, where does hope come from when everything good is destroyed? When everything tangible that gives us this feeling of hope is gone, where can you find it? And in the story, the children actually reached this, this magical age that I've called the age of hope, which is 12. And, and that is an age when specially magical things happen. And I really loved that. I loved that idea. That hope is something special that children can have that, that adults often have hope kind of beat out of us from the day in, day out and in the story actually, because the grownups are just surviving. That's when they're so focused on that, there's no time or energy for hope. It's just this onward plodding. And so I really, I really knew that that was what I wanted to do to develop this idea that children have this sort of clinging on to hope. And 12 seems to be especially a time when that happens because their whole future is ahead of them. And they're beginning to look forward, but also they're still children at heart.[inaudible] I really thought it was really clever what you did with the children, being this embodiment of hope versus the adults. Like you say, just being so beaten, beat down. And I found myself thinking about, um, when Allie Carter was on the podcast, not too long ago, we were talking about how one of the big challenges of middle grade is you have to get rid of the adults. How do you get them out of the way so that the kids can take over and do what they need to do? And of course, a lot of times, you know, the adults die or they, you know, have to go off on a business trip or, you know, there's some like mechanical device getting them out of the way. And I love that in this book, it's the fact that the adults simply don't have enough hope to do what needs to be done. So it has to be the kids going out and it, yes, absolutely. They've been crippled. They've been, they've been crippled by this, this devastating thing that's happening. And so they're unable to, to move forward or to do anything about it. Yeah. I also really love one of my favorite lines in the books talks about this comparison between hope and fury and how the two emotions they can work together because they are emotions that inspire action as opposed to emotions like guilt or sorrow, which weigh a person down. And I just loved that because I never thought of it that way before. And of course, fury and anger usually get lumped into like negative emotions. And I love that you presented a totally different case for it. Thank you, actually, that really comes from an actual person. Um, when I was writing Calliope, another young girl named Gretta Gutenberg was getting onto a boat and sailing across the Atlantic. And she just, for me is the embodiment of hope, but she's also so angry, you know, you can you'll that she has that theory. And I really want to know to, to catch hold of that because you can have them both, you can be angry and still hopeful that we can change something. Yeah. I want to talk about pacing. Um, oh, now that I'm thinking about it. Okay. So your book, this book, it moves at a very fast clip. Um, and there's like, it's nonstop action. There's it turned a page and we're onto something new return to page. And now this, this awful thing is happening and now we're doing this. And I mean, it was just nonstop action all the way through and in reading it, um, of course I can't help make comparisons to why a fiction and at the same time, why a fiction is usually credited as being more fast paced than adult fiction. So it's like the younger, you get the more things moving along and hold that attention span. Um, of course, as I started to ask this question, I thought, well, maybe it's because she had to cut 40,000 words from it. Um, but talk to me, what is your strategy for pacing and for keeping the plot moving throughout? Oh my goodness. I wish I had a strategy. I wish I knew it's really writing to entertain myself at the beginning. And so for me, that, that means that what I'm, I'm shaping the chapters in a way that leads a sharp point on the end. So I want to lead toward a final moment and I sort of want to build everything in that chapter toward this piercing moment on the end. And of course, then that's within a narrative that does the same exact thing. And so that's really what I wanted, especially because a lot of kids don't have the attention span to stick with something, if it's going to have too many slower parts. And so one of the ways that people do that is to shorten the chapters or, or to create these, these endings on chapters that are really exciting. And my chapters aren't short. So yes, for me, that's a big building thing I like to create drama and then end right on that moment of drama craft wise, as you were writing a chapter, do you have planned out what that end moment is going to be? Or are you writing and writing and think, oh, there's my spot. There's my break right there. I do not plan. I do not. And I'm so inspired because you are a planner and I love watching and, and, and I have, I have watched your whole process and been so impressed because even if I plan, it never goes according to plan, and then I'm staying busy either for the rest. Then you're stuck between like, do I stick to the plan? Which was great when I came up with it or do I go this other direction? And if I do that, all of the rest of my plan is thrown off to too and I have to, so I just sort of let it happen and I fix it later if it, if it doesn't make sense, let's switch gears a little bit. And we kind of started talking about promotion earlier, and that brought up the question for me of school visits. Um, because I know traditionally with middle grade launching a new middle grade book or a new middle grade author, uh, publishers have relied really, really heavily on school visits to introduce that age group to this, this book and this author. But with COVID, I gotta assume we're not doing school visits yet. At least I know I'm not. Um, are you set up for virtual school visits or kind of what's what's happening on that level? I've never done a school visit. I don't know if I've ever been invited to do one I've they've definitely been pitching it to independent booksellers. Uh, so I've been really excited to go to some, some festivals and some conventions that are targeted for booksellers. And that's sort of been what they're focusing. And I, you know, I don't know the plan. I just trust that the people in publicity and marketing have it figured out, right. Somebody has a plan when they tell me to show up and often they don't tell me until the day before. Yeah, no, I know that feeling. Um, no, that's it. And I I'm wishing now that I would've been asking more authors, um, particularly middle grade authors this past year, um, because I hadn't really thought of it until now, but I know like when cinder was coming out, my publisher was like, we have to get you into the schools. We have to do the schools. That's the only way to launch a new author. And now I'm wondering what are, what are all the debut middle grades doing out? I know. Well, I, I, it's such a, such a strange time to be coming out with a book. Actually. I'm so impressed by Jess Redmond because she has created whole packages on her website that are like prerecorded materials for teachers that they can use for free. That's so cool. That is smart. Some authors are very S you're one of those people, that's very business minded, very smart and savvy. I try to be, but there are definitely some people like Jessica Brody is someone that I look at. Like she has so many projects going on at any given time. And I'm just like, where did you find the energy for all of that? It's amazing. I, and I think about this, I think I told you already that, like, I don't know you are super human because you're homeschooling twins and, and doing crafts and writing books and doing this podcast. And I can only assume your house is spotless.[inaudible] in my mind, I'm over here, like in my pile of mess with my baby thinking, how am I going to manage this? And so I need, I need to keep you the hero in my mind. Oh, well, if it fired too, I don't know if it makes you feel better to know that my house is a total disaster or not, but it is funny because I, I find myself thinking about like, you know, you have this checklist of things and priorities in your life. And at some point somethings have to give. And for me, house work was pretty much easy. Pickens. Like, of course I would love to have a neat and tidy and clean house, but it's just not in the cards right now. I totally get that. Yeah. I ask, is there a system that you use to keep the things that you need to do in sort of keep track of them and prioritize them? Do you use some kind of specific method? I have a very intricate system. Um, as I'm speaking this, I see my girls are coming outside. Are they coming in here? Don't come in here. Oh, you're there. You're there. Hi honey. You look like you're up to no good. Oh, you have a butterfly. This is where your butterflies we've been grilling. Caterpillar buddies. We don't have, we don't have camera. Yeah. She has a butterfly on her finger. Are you setting them free? Gosh. Oh, and it's loose in my office. Okay, honey. Okay. We'll take it back outside, please. This is a very ironic that this is happening right? When you were like, you've totally got all of your brow. You're so on top of things, Marissa. Well, I sit at my husband, like our apartment's so small. So I was like, go take the baby. We'll walk to the store, get out. And basically, right. I got one. Hear it comes to the other one. Hey honey, did you let your butterflies lay down? Okay. Do you want to try to help sister? Oh, did you go outside? Oh, I flew outside. Okay, bye. It doesn't want to be in the office cider. It saw the door open and it was like, boom. Here. You can say hi. She can't see you though. Hi. How are you? I've seen you before you have seen me, but you didn't know it was me because I saw you last year at the children's book festival. You were there with you, you were there with our friend Ellie. Do you remember Ellie? Okay. Mommy. I'll be inside in just a minute. Okay. But, okay. Um, okay. Oh, yes. So I do have a very, very complicated organizational system on my OneNote. Um, and I've actually thought about like making a YouTube video here is my process and how I organize my days, my weeks, my months. I mean, sometimes it's like hour by hour. I can be very obsessive over it. I need this desperately. Um, congratulations on the baby, by the way. Thank you. I feel like people used to, you see it, a lot of, um, people saying kind of like you did like Marissa, it's amazing that you can do so much when you've got little babies at home. And, but we had a nanny when they were that age. And so I always felt a little bit like I was cheating. No, no. That's you just are trying to survive. Honestly, I, uh, we haven't had, it's been COVID so I haven't been able to have any support and I just, at the same time and I'm sort of, I let everything go. Like you said, you have to at a certain point say, okay, these are the things that matter. And these are the things that don't. And so I can say that I, I have her alive for nine whole months. So that is congratulations, mate. Yeah. Filling it is yes. Deal everybody. That is, I mean, you're in the thick of it right now for, for other parents of young children listening. Any tips, advice on how to keep getting writing done. Oh my goodness. So my, my method, we are currently still in a 400 square foot apartment. So I don't have office space. I don't know if telling my sad story will inspire you all, but I hope it does. So if, because this is basically, if I can do it, you can definitely do it. I, um, haven't been able to have any help. Don't have any grandparents in the area. My husband works a lot. So the only time I have had to write is at night after she goes to sleep and I am the fortunate mother of a child who does not sleep still, I get a good hour and a half at a time. And what I do is I have the lights all off because we're in one room and I have a tray table set up beside her little bed. And I type as quietly as I can because typing wakes her up. And I just sort of sprint between the hours of, well, I don't even, I used to love to do the Pomodoro method, set a timer and write well that has gone out of the window. Everything that I used to use to help me write has gone to the window. And now I'm in survival mode. We're in, she falls asleep. I rush and I type as fast as I can. And furiously as I can between the hours of eight and 2:00 AM. And then I fall into bed and I take naps with her during the day. And that is really how I survive doing that. But I don't have tips. I wish I did. I suffer. I suffer. You feel sorry for my son. Right. Were you a nighttime writer before, or have you like, as your absolutely not totally changed, totally changed everything I used to love to do. I can no longer. So I have been, I used to love to wake up early and write. I was like getting up at three 30 and writing from three 30 to seven 30, just because I like to get it done. First thing that was really energizing for me. And I have always liked to drink giant pots of tea while I did it. Or maybe even have a little splash of whiskey, but I'm breastfeeding. So that all went out the window and I it's just it's changed. And I think that what that's proven to me is that you can do it without all of those rituals. Although I love the ritual, don't get me wrong. I still have been able to do it without those things. It's been hard, but I've done it. I think it's important to have that reminder every once in a while. Um, cause I also, I love a good ritual, a good tradition. Um, you know, those, those days where I can just sit and have a cup of tea and write for hours and hours and they're such a blissful rarity, but it's good to know that you don't need that, that you can, if you have to squeeze it into 10 minute bursts while the Mac and cheese is boiling, you can do it. Yes, yes. You totally can. So, and I know that so many people feel that overwhelm of like, I have all of these other responsibilities or, you know, people who have day jobs and are thinking, I ha how, how can I squeeze it in when I'm exhausted? How do I create when I feel so mentally and emotionally drained? And I, I can only tell you that there is something energizing about taking the time for yourself to create and do what you love, even though you're tired. So I have found that even when I'm getting to my computer and it's been a hard night getting the baby down and it's 1130 and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I'm going to be so tired tomorrow. And I start typing and I think I'm going to fall asleep right here after about 10 minutes that goes away and the energy comes and I think, does that happen to you? Marissa? It depends. It does more often than not. Um, but there are also times when I sit down and I start working and I, my brain is just like, don't take a nap. What are you doing? And I'm okay with that too. Like I think that that is also a reasonable choice to make completely. Yes, yes. And sometimes if you give into that nap, then your next writing session will be so much more productive. Very much so. No, I think that it truly, sometimes the most productive thing you can do is just give yourself a break, a break. Amen. Um, well, as seems like a perfect note to switch over to our happy writer bonus round. Ooh, yay. Okay. Let's do it. What book makes you happy? Oh my gosh. I'm so excited to talk about this. I recently finished reading spindle, fish and stars by Christiane M Andrews. And it is so good. And I just had been singing its praises left and right. It is this beautiful middle grade story that is every line is delicious and it's atmospheric and it's based on mythology. And I don't want to give too much of it away because I didn't know what it was based on when I read it. And I think that made it better. So this book just makes me happy talking about it. Makes me happy. I am spindle fish and stars go find it. It's amazing. It is a great title. It's so good. What is your personal mantra? My personal mantra has really gotten shorter and more concise as I have felt more pressure and weight and stress. And at this moment, it's, I can do this and I say it to myself over and over and over, even when it sounds like just a crazy chance because it keeps the negative thoughts out of my head and all of the excuses and complaints that pile up and threatened to keep me from work. If I just keep saying, I can do this, I can do this and I can do this over and over and over again. It helps. How do you celebrate an accomplishment? Ooh. So actually there is a little restaurant. It's a farm to table restaurant across the Puget sound. So my husband and I walk onto the ferry and we sail over to Kingston and we walk up the hill and we go and sit outside. Or we sit in the bar, which our bar days are over because of the baby. And we just eat, eat, and eat and eat all these delicious, fresh farmed foods. And it's just, it's our favorite place and the servers know us. And it's, it's my favorite thing to do. I'm so glad that it's back open. Um, that sounds like an awesome tradition. What is your favorite thing about being a writer making right or friends? Oh, like so, so much. I, the fact that I actually am getting to know and talk to people whose books I have read and loved, like you is just blowing my mind. It is so exciting. And I just, it has been so amazing to me. How many authors have reached out to me and DMD me and welcome to me. And I, somebody said to me that this is only because I write kid lit and that, you know, adult books are not like this and blah, blah, blah. They were very like world weary, but I it's just, the community is so amazing. So amazing. I am honored and thrilled to be a part of it. What are you working on next? So I have been working on a sequel to the Firebird song and I can't tell too much about it, but it is coming out next year and it's going to be due what happens directly after this book. And may I ask if it's the same two main characters, it will be all of the characters that you have met plus a few. Oh, that's exciting. Yes. Lastly, where can people find you? So you can find me on my website, RNA flores.com, or you can find me on Instagram at our name de Flores and I love Instagram. So coming over and say, hello, and then I'm also on Twitter. I don't love it as much, but I exist there at RNA de Flores. And that is probably a really good time to mention that your Instagram makes me really happy, so bright and so colorful. And it makes me want to learn to be a better photographer. So I hope you have a very, very nice and, and, and artistic Instagram husband, lucky trick. Okay. Thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you for having me. I'm just, I, this has been an absolute dream come true to be able to be on your podcast and to chat with you today, readers, be sure to check out the Firebird song. It comes up on June 8th and is now available for pre-order. Of course, we always encourage you to support your local indie bookstore, but if you don't have a local indie, you can check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marissa Meyer. If you're enjoying these conversations, please subscribe and follow us on Instagram at Marissa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy and cozy in your bunkers and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling a little bit happier and coming up next week, I'll be talking to Marine Johnson about her upcoming murder mystery, the box in the woods. I hope you'll check[inaudible].