Marissa chats with Liselle Sambury about her debut futuristic fantasy - BLOOD LIKE MAGIC - as well as integrating fantasy and science-fiction in a way that the magic and technology work with, and not against, each other; deciding what to cut and what not to cut when it comes to revisions, and making sure your "fun" scenes are important to the overall plot; writing big family dynamics, plus one way to ensure that each character has their own opinions; writing morally gray ethical dilemmas and difficult decisions that keep your reader guessing; and using YouTube and social media to share your experiences with other writers and how great it can be to bond over various stages of the publishing journey.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa chats with Liselle Sambury about her debut futuristic fantasy - BLOOD LIKE MAGIC - as well as integrating fantasy and science-fiction in a way that the magic and technology work with, and not against, each other; deciding what to cut and what not to cut when it comes to revisions, and making sure your "fun" scenes are important to the overall plot; writing big family dynamics, plus one way to ensure that each character has their own opinions; writing morally gray ethical dilemmas and difficult decisions that keep your reader guessing; and using YouTube and social media to share your experiences with other writers and how great it can be to bond over various stages of the publishing journey.
Books discussed in this episode can be purchased from your local independent bookstore or buy them online from the Happy Writer bookshop.org store (that benefits indie bookstores) at https://bookshop.org/shop/marissameyer
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Hello, and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books, to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I'm your host, Marissa Meyer. Thanks for joining me. We have a few housekeeping things to go over today. For starters, we want your opinions on this podcast. What do you like? What do you not like? What could I be doing better? What do you want more of, less of et cetera, et cetera. You can tell us by filling out our quick Google survey, that link can be found on our Instagram at happy writer podcast. It shouldn't take more than 10 minutes to complete. And if you submit your email address at the end of the survey, then you will be entered into a random drawing. And one winner will get the chance to co-host an episode of this podcast, along with me and a mutually agreed upon guest super exciting. We did this once before last year, and it was so fun. So check it out, fill out the survey you have until June 21st to do that and be entered into the contest. We are also having a, one of our regular monthly contests on Instagram. Again, I'm recording this at the beginning of the month and I don't actually know what the contest is yet because Joanne is always in charge of those things. Um, but I did want to put it out there because we are going to be on break the next two weeks. So before we go, I wanted you guys to know that there is another contest happening. Check it out on our Instagram page at happy writer podcast. And if you participate, then you could be entered to win a free book. So, yes, as I said before, we will be on vacation. This is our last episode now until June 28th. Why? Because we are vaccinated here in my family and we're going on a trip. I am so excited to leave Washington to go out in the world. Uh, we're going to Hershey, Pennsylvania, which none of us have ever been there before. And I'm super excited to ride some roller coasters and eat a ton of chocolate. And we're also going to go see some fireflies, cause we don't have fireflies here in Washington and my mother-in-law's going with us. And that was one of her big wishlist items was to go see real fireflies. So we're all so excited and that's why I won't be here the next couple of weeks talking to you guys, but we will be back at the end of the month. And as I'm sure you can imagine that is the thing that is making me so, so happy right now getting to actually travel again. Okay. And of course I am happy to be talking to today's guest. She works in social media and has a fabulous YouTube channel in which she shares tips and information all about her publishing journey, her debut novel blood like magic is coming out next week on June 15th, please. Welcome. Lizelle salmonberry.
Speaker 2:Hello. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Your debut novel is coming out so soon. How are you feeling?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very strange and surreal because you, you know, I've waited for this for so long. Um, you know, we got the book deal and now it's like two years later, so it's been two years of lead up to this, but now it just feels all very strange that it's happening, even though it was always supposed to happen. It's very much like, oh, it's happening now. It's
Speaker 1:Real. It's real. That's funny. Do you think, cause I know a lot of, uh, books were pushed back due to the pandemic and have had kind of a longer publication schedule than is normal. Do you feel like it being now two years later, has it just been like this awesome buildup to this huge crescendo? Or do you feel like having such a long publication schedule has left it feeling a little anticlimactic at this point?
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm still really excited for it, but I am like a very impatient person. So the whole first year I was basically putting it out of my mind and trying to distract myself with other things. And then when there was one year left and we started doing more things than the impatience started to build. Um, so it's been a lot of anticipation, but I'm still really excited about it because I've just been so impatient for it for so long. Um, I'm very much like, oh my gosh, I can't wait for it to just be out and then I'll just always have a book out and that will be amazing. I won't have to anticipate so painfully. Right,
Speaker 1:Right, right. No it isn't, it's such a huge accomplishment. It's so exciting. Uh, congratulations. You're there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Thank you. It's yeah, it's very, very, very exciting. Definitely childhood dream come true.
Speaker 1:Hmm. I know the feeling. I know exactly what you mean. Uh, so why don't we start with you telling listeners about your book blood like magic. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Uh, so blood like magic is about a family of black witches living in a near future Toronto and in particular, 16 year old Voya Thomas who is given the impossible task of either killing her first love or losing her family's magic forever.
Speaker 1:It's such a good premise. There's so much tension just built into that little elevator pitch.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Just high stakes is what I really liked.
Speaker 1:No more high stakes. And, and even that idea, like to save her family's magic, that isn't even all of it. There's so much more, there's so much at stake in this book for this, this poor, poor protagonists.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's true. I say out of all my books I've written, I am the most mean to Voya and she has to do the most stuff
Speaker 1:I felt for her so much. There's so many points in this book where I was like, oh, what would I do? How, how, how could you choose? How could you make these decisions? And obviously we see her struggling with it so much and it felt so visceral and so real. Um, so really well done. And just the whole premise behind this book is so good. Thank you so much. So there's a ton, as I mentioned, kind of before we started the recording, I have a super long list of questions and I know we won't get to half of them because there is so much that you could dig into with this book. Uh, so I thought that we would just start with the very first line and just kind of start working our way. Sounds great. Yeah, no, I'm obviously being facetious, but the opening line of this book is so good that I had to draw attention to it. Do you mind if I read it for people? Go ahead. So guys listen to this opening line. There's something about lounging in a bath of blood that makes me want to stay until my fingers. Shrivel enough to show the outlines of my bones. If that doesn't give you chills. It's I love this. I love this opening line. I love how creepy it is. It's McCobb, there's this great visual of like literally bathing in a pool of blood. How many times did you write or rewrite or agonize over writing this perfect first line?
Speaker 2:It's kind of funny because the first line is like one of the few things in the book that has been almost the same throughout the entire book. Okay. Um, I did some tweaking, I think, to the latter half of the sentence, but a lot of it was very similar because when I had envisioned this book, I started with that visual of Voya in that bath of blood. And because that was so strong right from the beginning, um, it really stuck. And so that first line was like the culmination of finally putting onto paper, this idea that I'd had percolating in my head.
Speaker 1:So interesting. Cause I, I mean have had books where that first line just kind of like pops into your head and it's just right. But I feel like way more often for me, I go back and I tweak and I rearrange and I just like spend so much time on that first line, that first paragraph, that first page trying to get it, you know, so good that no one's going to be able to resist getting into this book. So I love that. I love that this just wonderful opening was just like, this is it. This is the start of our story. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that plays into my impatience too. I tend to draft fast and I don't let myself dwell on anything for very long because I'm like, you just need to finish this and then you can go back and you can fix and you can tweak and you can do whatever, but we can't sit here and go over this over and over for half an hour, we need to move on.
Speaker 1:Right? No, I'm I'm I totally know what you're saying. I believe in the fast, first drafts also. Uh, so I'm really curious. So you say that that vision of her in this bath of blood was, was one of the catalysts for the story, because I had wondered about that as you're reading, of course we know this is a book with magic, it's right there in the title. Um, we know it's a book about a witch and a family of witches, but before too long as we're reading, it's not a fantasy novel. I mean, it's, it's a, it has a very futuristic setting and there's a lot of high technology and talk of robotics and genetics and all of this. So at what point did that start to come into the developing of the story? Was that kind of ingrained from the beginning or did that kind of come into play later as you were writing and figuring it out?
Speaker 2:It was definitely ingrained in the beginning because I had wanted to write about those, that family of black witches in Toronto. Um, and for whatever reason in how my brain works, I was like, what if it was in the future? And then I latched onto it and I just loved it. And I was like, I have to set it in the future now. But something that I was really particular about with it is that I needed the fantasy and sci-fi to blend in a way that they could not be pulled apart because I had heard a lot about, you know, sometimes publishers not really wanting the genre mix and I felt super paranoid that if they weren't mixed heavily enough, I would be asked, well, why don't you just take it out and just make it an urban fantasy about witches? And so the technology right from the start, I was like, I'm going to put this in and I'm going to make sure that the witches need the technology and that the technology in some way also relies on the witches.
Speaker 1:That's so interesting. So when you did start querying and in searching for agents and publishers, what sort of reactions were you getting from people on this very blended genre?
Speaker 2:It's really interesting because from agents, I don't remember it ever being mentioned. Um, but it became a really big thing on submission when we were submitting to publishers. Um, that was like the most prevalent feedback I got was I, I'm not sure where to place the book due to the genre mix. I'm not sure how to sell the book due to the genre mix or something about the genre mix, vaguely isn't working. Um, so that was an interesting part of that process because me and my agent were both very much like, well, we're not going to take it out. And if we try and take it out the way I've written it, like the book would fall apart. Um, so it's going to be like this and hopefully we can find someone that does know how to place in it is ready to figure out how to present it to the wider world. And that ended up working out.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, it kind of feels like the sort of thing where once you find that editor or that publisher that's right for the book, they would just have to embrace it heartily. Like I love this and we will find a way to find its readers. Is that, did you feel that like once you did get the book deal, I have to imagine your team is like, so behind this.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I really felt like that. My Sarah, my editor, I really felt like she was like, I love this book. I have a spot for this book. I didn't even, I don't even remember if the genre mix even came up necessarily. It was just like, yeah, absolutely. We're gonna work together on this book. Um, and I've had a lot of great support from the team on the book. Um, and the Canadian team especially are very excited about the Toronto setting. Um, so yeah, it ended up working out. Um, it was like, I guess a little bit of a gamble in that I went into it knowing that John remix would be hard for some people, but I also felt like that was a big part of what set the book apart. Um, and what made it feel different to me. Um, so I'm really excited that we found out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, and I mean, I totally know, because my first series of the lunar Chronicles also kind of had this blend of scifi and fantasy. And, but I remember those fears of like, are people really going to go along with fairytales and cyborgs and robots and spaceships. Um, and I, I remember being really nervous about that when I started querying, uh, but same sort of thing. Like once it found its home, they, they were so excited and a lot of talk about how it sets it apart. Like it's not your typical fairytale retelling or in your case, it's not your which story, you know, there is, there's this totally new added element of, of high technology and genetics and how these things work together. And it's makes for just a really cool world that you're introducing us to.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And then it would change the book as well. If you didn't have that, like, I would find it really difficult to picture the lunar Chronicles without these elements together. Um, because it just worked that way. Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And also, I mean, there's something to be said, I think for how us writers, you know, the, the spark of the story and the thing that you get excited about at the beginning, there's a reason that you're getting excited about it and yeah, it might create some complications for where do we shelve this or which, you know, good reads profile. Are we going to market this on or whatever, but if you can look past that, like, I think that if the author is excited and has an idea that they're really into, then the idea is that there's going to be readers out there who also are really craving this thing. Absolutely. So kind of on that note, you talked about how important it was to you to balance the fantasy and the magic with the technology and science fiction. What were some of the challenges that you found in trying to find a nice blend of these two very different genres?
Speaker 2:The challenges were a lot in just figuring out how to make these two worlds, uh, inexplicably, like just not inexplicably, just tied to each other in a way that was very difficult to separate. So a lot of the time it was me thinking, okay, um, what if which is didn't have access to this technology, could everything be normal for them or could it not? And what if, you know, the genetics company, if they didn't have any sort of tie to that world, then could it still be what it is. And I had to ask myself a lot of those questions and do that. And I really also relied a lot on the characters and character history and how they're interacting with each other because the fact that Voya and Luke, um, are each from those different worlds, you know, he's an intern at the genetics company and, um, potentially in line to run the company and voice of course, a part of this, which community, the fact that they are kind of forced together in this situation automatically kind of creates that bond between the magic and the technology just through their characters. So that helped me. And then I kind of built on that over time as well. But yeah, a lot of the challenges for just kind of asking myself many, many questions and my agent asking the questions and my editor asking questions and trying to answer them all in a way that felt coherent. Um, and in a way that worked and blended into the story and enriched it instead of kind of feeling like things I was just tacking on. I know that feeling very well.
Speaker 1:Did you, so you mentioned before that you are kind of a fast first drafter, um, and that you, you like to like, get it down on the page and know that you can come back and fix it later with the world building and developing the magic system and developing, you know, how these two things are going to play off of each other. How much of you of that was planned when you started writing, say your first draft or how much was discovered as you were going, did you have a draft where you had like one thing with the technology or the magic, and then later we're like, okay, we're going to scrap that whole thing and try this now. Like, how did that all come together? So
Speaker 2:In writing the first draft of this book, I planned like none of the world building well whatsoever. I just kind of jumped in and discovery wrote everything, uh, which I later regretted. And I no longer do that because it creates regrets. Um, so I was discovering a lot along the way. And then through revisions, I was having to fix a lot of the magic rules. I was having to reconfigure how things worked. Um, because I would say, uh, this is like a rule for magic. And then I would have too many rules and things would get too complicated. And then I had to dial back the rules, but then if I dial back the rules, somethings were then difficult story-wise. And so that created a lot of issues. Um, but definitely the layers of like having readers and my agent and my editor asks questions about, okay, but what about this? And what about this? That helped me a lot with the magic world building. Because when I started out with that magic system, I had a small set of very specific rules and that was that they needed to use blood if they wanted to cast spells, and if they weren't using blood, they could use their gift. Um, and that was the only time they can use magic without requiring blood. Um, but there's also two factions in the witch community. There's the pure witches and the impure, which is, which is the pier, which is only used their blood to cast magic and impure, which is use the blood of others to cast magic. And that was also something I had to tweak because in the original drafts, they just always had to kill someone to use magic. But then that created difficulty because it was like, how many dead bodies are we going to have in this city?
Speaker 1:They were writing a murder mystery.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And then it made it difficult to kind of have nuance between families of everyone was always having to murder someone. You use that sort of magic. Um, so that was one of those things that had to be developed. And then the technology specifically, the genetic matchmaking, I changed several times. Um, the first time I had the matchmaking, I like forced them to go on all these dates and then I wasn't doing enough dates. And so I added more dates. And then my agent was kind of like, does this seem like it fits in the future? And I was thinking about current dating apps. And like, nobody's forcing you to go on a date. You just look at your phone and you see who you're matched with, then you do the rest of the work. And then I realized that made a lot more sense. So then I had to scrap all of the dates that I did and we cast everything. And so that mechanic changed a lot. Um, and then some like tweaks with the technology as well change. So a lot I did not do very good world-building in the beginning. And a lot of it came through and revisions and like the strength of the world-building is really a strength of all the revising.
Speaker 1:I got to say, I kind of, I love the idea of Luke being forced to go on a bunch of dates. Oh, he hated them. Exactly. Where did you, I feel sad about anything that ended up getting lost over all those revisions.
Speaker 2:I thought I would, but I really didn't. And I remember in one of my earlier revisions with my agent, she was like, cause I used to have more family members. I used to have one more and she was like, there's a lot of family members. And she's like, this is your choice, but maybe cut one. And I'm going to say chase. And at the time I was completely, I was like, cut chase. I never could do that. But then I calmed down and I said, ah, let me see what the book would look like if I cut him and it changed almost nothing. And then I realized he was very unnecessary. And so chase is not in the book. Yeah. Poor cheese. I feel bad for savings. One of those things where like, I would think that I would miss that, but I really didn't. And then I gave his gift to Kesha and it ended up working out way better. Um, and then like the date scenes thought I would miss, but I really didn't miss them. Um, I always take things that I'm taking out and I like put them in a little folder aside in case I decide that I do love and miss them, but I never ended up looking in that folder because I only make changes that I agree with. And so I don't usually have anything that I regret. And it's rare for me to have like a sort of random fun scene that isn't related to anything that I just put in. Cause I thought it was fun. Um, which I think would be the only thing that I would miss, but I made sure that all of the stuff I put in that I thought was fun, had integral plot points, so they could never be cut. Are you
Speaker 1:Here? That's the way to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like, yeah, like the fashion show, I was like, I want to fashion show
Speaker 1:And this book of magic and science fiction and blood in which witches.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Just take a break from all of the, you know, potential murdering and uh, go to a fun fashion
Speaker 1:Show. Well, I am the same way. I, whenever I cut anything, I always stuff it into a folder because one, it's a lot easier. I think to cut something, if you know that it's not disappearing into the ether, if you're like, no, but I could get it back if I really wanted it. Um, and I feel like that takes a lot of the pain of editing away, but I also, I never go back. I never think like, oh, but that one random scene like is actually really important. It's like, no, you cut it for a reason. And I think you kind of have to listen to those instincts and it makes for great bonus content later.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That's a good reason to keep it for those people that are like, oh, well I still have to keep it. Even though I have no use for it. Right. You can always pull it out for that reason.
Speaker 1:It's a blog post later. Here's so content of these characters that you love that didn't make it into the book. Um, so you talked about the family. I really want to talk about writing family dynamics, um, because we have Voya, she lives in this household with a big extended family and they're so great. They're all such unique personalities. And I know that it can be really hard to write a big cast of characters and one make them all feel authentic and unique in their own ways. And also like to give each of them their due to not make anyone feel like, you know, oh, they're just kind of hanging out in the background and they're not really important or they're kind of falling through the cracks of the plot. I know that that's a big challenge. So for you, like what were some of the things that you were thinking about in crafting this family and then just kind of writing their dynamics and their relationships with Voya and with each other? Yeah, it was
Speaker 2:Interesting. It was a lot of discovery, which is interesting when I think now of how I write books because I plot very meticulously. But at the time I had kind of just decided these were the family members and I had thought of, you know, how their kind of personality was. And then I just kind of went with it and kept everything in my head, which now to me seems completely bonkers, but just in my head kept every character. And I was like, this is how this character is, and this is how this character is personality wise. And then over time I would add on to like their backstories and their goals and that sort of thing. Um, and so a lot of the characters by the end of the first draft, I had a very good feeling for what each family member was like, but I did need to, in a later revision, I had to write out every single family member and I had to write, okay, what is their goal? Um, so that I could explicitly have it instead of just holding it in my head and also what do they want Voya to do? Um, so are they team kill Luke? Are they team? We think you could do something else or they team, I don't have any ideas, but murder is wrong and basically kind of slotted them all into that because, um, something, one of the notes I had gotten was that it seemed like some of the family members had this like hive agreement. Um, and that's obviously not really realistic. Like they all have their own stakes in what Voya is doing, um, and their own feelings about it. So that really helped me writing that down for each of them and then kind of sticking it in my head and then making sure that I was, when I was going through and doing all of those scenes, I was remembering, okay, this is what Kesha thinks. And this is what granny thinks, and this is what Alex thinks. And also how are those going to interact with each other? Because, you know, even though Kesha disagrees with both granny and Alex, granny is leader of the family, and she's never going to say anything to her, but she can say something to Alex or she could say something to Voya about how she feels, um, and all of those. So it was a lot of like, it was partially discovery and then partially getting down and like bullet pointing what everyone wanted. Um, but it was nice for me because I had felt their personality so strongly that, that wasn't the thing I had to write down. The thing I just had to write down was what do they want? And then I could blend it into how I envision that character.
Speaker 1:That is a really great strategy. And as you were talking, I was thinking about how the book has such great subtext throughout. Um, and I didn't know if texts is something that's really come up much on this podcast. Um, so for listeners who may not be familiar, it's this idea that like, there's, there's more in the story than what's on the surface. You know, things that people are aren't saying, um, that isn't on the page, but you kind of get a feel for it anyway. And there's a lot of that in this book. And it makes so much sense now hearing how you went about like making these decisions and having this idea of what was in each of these characters heads, even if they don't actually come out and say it every time, because you really felt that it really came across very strongly. I'm
Speaker 2:Really glad about that because that's definitely what I wanted, especially because for a lot of the book, you know, everybody's kind of keeping their own little secrets, but they're still having reactions to things that are happening based on what they know that Voya may or may not know.
Speaker 1:Right. And you've really, you've set up this challenge for Voya in that it has to be her decision. Like she has to make the choice herself. And so it's like the rest of the family, they can't give her their opinions. Like they're, they're not really allowed to try to push her one direction or another, and yet obviously they have opinions, obviously this is something that's affecting all of them. Um, so, so yeah, that's, that's a great, great tip. I love that kind of working with your secondary characters. I want to go back to some of the kind of came up before that we didn't really, uh, expand on yet, is this idea of there being pure, which is, and impure, which is, and the impure ones kill and murder, kill and murder people in order to cast their magic and the pure, which is use their own blood for it. And it's so fascinating to me because I think if someone were just to hear that, they would think, oh, okay, the impure witches are the villains clearly, but you didn't do that. Like there's so much push and pull with the ethics that's happening in this book and whether or not it's okay for the ends to justify the means. Is it okay to do a horrible thing? If you have good intentions and if you're accomplishing something for the greater good and I love it. And there's of course no easy answers we see Voya's struggling with it. We see other characters struggling with it. I want to know for you in writing this book, how much did you feel like you had a clear idea of what's right and wrong, or did you feel yourself kind of getting pulled in different ways as you're kind of being forced to create these arguments in favor of different ideologies here?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I definitely found it difficult because I purposely made things very gray. So it was very difficult to say, oh, well, these people are just bad, full stop because they're every time an impure which, um, kills or tortures or whatever, um, to get magic and get extra magic, they have to have a pure intention. Um, so they're torturing this person to get magic, but they're using it to help save children who are in need. Um, and the big thing with the, um, the other family in the book, the, um, Davis's is that they kill a person every two years, but they use it to project the Caravana festival, um, which is a Caribbean festival that happens in Toronto in which there's a lot of black people. And there has been violence and police violence in the past. And so it's, yes, we're killing a person, but we're using it to help the wider community. Um, and conversely with Voya's family, they're pure witches and they don't kill people for magic, but they don't help their community. They don't go out of their way to assist people. They don't create community. They're very much about them in their own. Um, and Voya really feels that struggled because she used to feel a part of the wider community, but now she feels very disjointed from it. And she's also has her friend that's missing and her family won't help. Um, and so I really made sure that I had those gray bits because I find that really fascinating to be pushed into that moral dilemma of is this totally bad or is this totally good? Or like, which is right. Um, I, myself, I'm like, you probably shouldn't kill pupils, but I love having general rule for life.
Speaker 1:It's a good rule of thumb,
Speaker 2:But at the same time, I can't, there are lots of those characters from those families who I love and who I think are fantastic. And I love them as characters, even knowing that this is something that they're co-signing and something that they are doing. Um, and that was definitely something I really wanted in the book. I definitely want people to kind of struggle with that. Um, Johann, especially who is the defacto leader of the Davis family, um, in his mother's absence, um, he is like my most great character and I love him so much because he's, he's terrible, but he's also really great. And he's kind of the only person in the community that consistently goes out of his way to help the wider community in a way that nobody else does. Even though he's like the worst perpetrator.
Speaker 1:I love that too. I love books that forced me to think about things like this. Cause I'm with you, like probably not a good idea to murder somebody. Um, but you also in reading these scenes and in reading their motivation, the reasons that they're doing these things, you can't vilify them. Like you can't say, well, you're a horrible person, Blake, you did such a great job of balancing the good with the bad and making it such a dilemma and such a question of ethics that I threw out. The whole book was like, I don't know. I don't know, would think, I don't know what I would do here. Um, which is the mark of course, of a great book that it makes you think so hard. I loved it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I love that. That's definitely what I want, especially with Voya, because she's now at the intersection and that she's been raised her whole life to be like, we're pure witches and we don't kill people anymore. Uh, but then she gets this task and suddenly people start flipping switch and start saying to her, oh, well maybe in this particular case, you should kill this person. And she's very much like, but that's not what you told me and that's not how you raised me. So why now for us in particular, this is okay when you really condemn everyone else who has done that. Um, so yeah, I'm definitely excited about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I could not help feeling as in, I'm not going to spoil anything. We'll keep it all very vague. But as I'm reading the last few chapters of this book, I couldn't help feeling like, it felt like a great origin story for a superhero and a super villain who were like supposed to be arch enemies. Is it just me? Was there any part of you that like was going for that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally feel that. And there's definitely some intentionality.
Speaker 1:It's a, which book it's a, you know, it's not super heroes, but those last few chapters, I was like, oh, I think I see what's happening. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's definitely that dynamic without being heroes. And that's definitely something that I was going for again, because I'm constantly mean boy. Um, but I've always loved that sort of like tension and, you know yeah, definitely that origin story of like, are you seeing what could become this? Or what could become that? And you don't kind of know, but yeah. Yeah. I'm really happy about how that comes together.
Speaker 1:Yes, no, it felt it was so powerful and just seeing how things are so complicated and so intertwined. Uh, so of course the natural question is, is there going to be more, are we working with a, duology a trilogy? What is happening? Where do we go from here? So
Speaker 2:It's going to be a duology. So there'll be a second and final book next year. Um, I always planned it as two books, um, which is nice for me because then I don't have to have any nine in decisions and I can feel like, okay, this is always how it's going to be. Um, and now this has wrapped up like this. Um, but I do definitely we'll see how things go, but I wouldn't be opposed to doing a sort of spinoff in the future. I definitely have some ideas about that, but we'll see, would
Speaker 1:Pretend this potential spinoff be from some of the other characters in the family. I think
Speaker 2:It would be a brand new character, but they would definitely make cameos. They would be involved.
Speaker 1:Okay. Interesting. Because I feel again, back to like how complex and well develop the family is, every one of them could have their own story. Yeah.
Speaker 2:They're definitely like that. Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes. Um, okay. Well, cool. I'm so glad to hear that. There's I figured there was going to be a second one cause you didn't exactly leave us on like a great place. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't end it like that. I'm not I'm mean, but I'm not that mean. Yes.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm so excited to see where it goes. There's so many things that can happen in it. Um, okay. Before we start wrapping things up, I do want to take a moment to tell people about your YouTube channel. Um, because I was on, you know, surfing through some of the videos and you have a ton of content on it. Um, videos about your experience as a debut author and writing and editing and, but also like a lot of nitty gritty publishing stuff. Uh, and I just think it's a brilliant resource. Um, so aspiring writers, all writers listening to this, um, I hope that they'll go check it out. So do you want to just tell people a little bit about it?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. So I started this YouTube channel originally, um, partially because I wanted to learn about video production, but partially because I remembered all the videos I'd seen of other people's experiences and it was just such a helpful resource just to see what they had gone through and to learn more about their journeys. Um, and so that's what I went into creating videos about. So there are videos about how I got my agent and, um, about getting book deals. There are videos that are flogs as I work on several projects. So as I work on, but like magic or the SQL edits or my 2023 book, butcher birds, basically all my little project, nitty gritties, if you want to kind of dive into that day to day off their life. And I also have discussion videos where I talk about publishing things or writer things, I've done some interviews with some other authors as well. So it really runs the gambit in terms of content, but really the goal is to help other writers kind of see inside the process. Um, but also in some ways can help them relate at different stages if they're going through similar processes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think it's so good to talk about the journey and because everyone's journey is different, of course, and everyone's publication story is different and hunt for the agent is like, it's all different, but there are similarities and there are parts of the process that we can all relate to. Or we, we know what it's like to be there, or maybe you're a new author and this is just new and terrifying and overwhelming. And you just want to feel like, okay, people have been there before me and I'm going to come through on the other side. And I just think that's, it's such a great thing for us to, to talk and bond about these different stages. Yeah,
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That's what I loved. And that's what I loved when I was watching people's videos because, you know, I was like, oh, uh, this is this person's person's agent story. And they also searched for however many years. So I'm like, okay, not everybody is just instantly doing this right off the bat. Or you're watching someone work on a project and they're like, oh, this doesn't really work for me. And they dropped the project when they do a new project. And so if you have to drop a project, it's not like I'm the only person that's ever had to do this, even though, you know, that objectively is not true. It's a different thing to see it happening.
Speaker 1:Yes. And to see that someone dropped that project or made that decision and came out just fine. On the other side, like it's not the end of the world. If you have to take a left turn once in awhile. Absolutely. Did you start the YouTube channel before or after you had your book deal?
Speaker 2:I started it when I knew I had a book deal, but I hadn't announced it yet. Oh,
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Started making videos. So I made like a video about getting my agent and that sort of thing, and like kind of tested the waters and saw how that went. Um, and I think that was primarily because when I had started on YouTube, I had felt like that I had to give advice all the, and so I was like, okay, maybe at this point I feel more comfortable giving a little bit more advice cause I've got a little bit more experience. Um, and then I realized that you don't need to give advice to people at all you, that you can kind of decide what you want to do on the platform. Um, and before that had been doing videos on IETV just so I could show myself that I could regularly create and put out a video and to like give me a little bit of time to work up to YouTube. Um, but yeah, and so that's kind of when I had started. And then I, when I got to announce my book deal, then I was able to fully announce on the channel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I, I know what you mean about advice. Cause like I'm constantly having people ask for advice for different, you know, writing advice or publishing advice. Um, and there's obviously a place for that. Uh, but I think also a lot of people just want that connection and just want to, the people are just curious, like what, what are you going through and what is your process? And you know, it's okay that it's all different from person to person or writer to writer. Um, but I think we just want to see what other writers are doing. Just know that we're not alone in this bizarre career we've chosen.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And that's what I really like, you know about the community is getting to see everyone be able to share their story and get to see all the different ways that people approach writing and that sort of thing. So yeah, I really liked that. I'm glad it's not all advice, but some advice.
Speaker 1:Right, right. Uh, and that's just, um, it was just your name, right? Zell Sam Berry on yes. Yes. Check it out people. Okay. We're going to wrap this up with our happy writer bonus round first question. What book makes you happy?
Speaker 2:I think because I recently read it, but I read the ones were meant to find by Joanie and it makes me so happy because I so desperately wanted dystopian and it just delivered everything and more, it gave me the dystopian fields. I had deep thoughts about the environment and our world and it had such fun characters. I absolutely loved it.
Speaker 1:I had, I have that sitting on my desk right next to me as we're having this interview. I'm so happy to hear that you liked it. I'm excited to read it. What is your personal mantra?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Persistence is key. I would say like everywhere from writing and like, you know, pursuits and everything else, like persistence has been the thing that has gotten me where I want to be and persistence, especially with breaks. So I'm not continuously doing something all the time. Sometimes I take when I need to, but I'm persistent in the things I want to achieve.
Speaker 1:How do you fill the creative? Well,
Speaker 2:Uh, TV, U2, um, movies, a lot of that sort of media, um, and occasionally books, but I try to mostly fill it with movies and TVs because with books, I always worry that I'll like, you know, inadvertently steal something from someone. So I'd rather creative Wellsville with TVs and movies and then books is just like fun. I'm not thinking too hard about it.
Speaker 1:What is your most favorite thing about being a writer? Oh gosh, that's a good question. I love
Speaker 2:The creation of the story. So I love that initial plotting ideating phase where I think of different images in my head and I talk my friends and my mom's ear off with my ideas and I make little aesthetic boards and I write down Synopsys, like, that's my favorite bit of writing.
Speaker 1:There's so much potential at the start of a story. Yes.
Speaker 2:And you haven't had to like do the writing. Yes. And I feel like you're so much kinder to yourself and you're so open, excited, passionate, and everything is perfect. Yes.
Speaker 1:I know. I love that piece. That phase two, we kind of talked about this. Um, but what are you working on next? Or how much can you tell us about it?
Speaker 2:So I guess the sequel is what's coming up most imminently. Um, I just finished some edits on that and I think I'm going to get some more edits soon. Um, but yeah, the SQL to blood like magic that title, we're not revealing yet. I don't think, but I really, I really excited about it. I think it's gonna, I think it's a very good companion to the first book. Um, you'll get to see some characters that had more minor rules in the first book get larger roles. And of course the returning of familial familiar characters. And there are just so many bits in the SQL that I absolutely love. And I know people say like second book syndrome and like how second books are so hard, but it's been very strange for me considering the fact that I had also wrote this book during quarantine, but there are so many bits in it that I absolutely love. And I can't wait for people to read.
Speaker 1:Lastly, where can people find you? I
Speaker 2:Am LaSalle, salmonberry everywhere. So on YouTube, I'll sell San brain CA because I'm obnoxiously Canadian at times. And yeah, that's the only thing I didn't want to do. Dot com. I wanted to.ca um,
Speaker 1:Show your Canadian pride. Right?
Speaker 2:I think it's nice. Um, and, uh, Twitter, Instagram. I do have a tick-tock. I am not on there a lot because I don't have auto captions and I got frustrated doing my own captions, but eventually I will put more on there.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you so much
Speaker 2:For having me. This is great
Speaker 1:Readers. Please check out bloodline magic. It comes out on June 15th and is currently available for pre-order. Of course, we always encourage you to support your local indie bookstore. If you can, if you don't have a local Indian, you can check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marissa Meyer. Again, we will be on break for the next couple of weeks, but we will be back on June 28th with a super cute contemporary romance Tokyo ever after by a Nico Jean. That one is out. Now, if you want to go ahead and get your copy in advance. If you're enjoying these conversations, please subscribe and follow us on Instagram at Marissa Meyer, author and app happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy, stay cozy and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling a little bit happier.[inaudible].