Retelling a Modern Cinderella and Writing Disney IP Projects with Julie Murphy - If the Shoe Fits

Marissa chats with Julie Murphy about her first adult romance - IF THE SHOE FITS - and her 8 million other projects (PUMPKIN, FAITH, anthologies, oh my!); as well as a little bit of TWILIGHT appreciation; working with a publisher on packaged projects and how much creative control Julie had in her Disney-based romance; placing characters, especially villains, in "different lights" in order to alter how both the reader and other characters respond to them; how groundbreaking and inspiring DUMPLIN' and Julie's full-figured protagonists have been for the market; and some of the differences between writing young adult versus (closed door) adult romance. Also: a mini cameo from Marissa's mom. (Hi Mom!)

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

[inaudible]

Speaker 2: 0:10

Hello and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books, to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I'm your host. Marissa Meyer. Thank you for joining me. There are a couple of things making me happy this week. The first one is making the cut on Amazon prime, uh, which funny enough kind of relates to the book that we're going to be talking about today. Uh, this is like the new project runway show. I have loved project runway for years and years, Julie. I'm sorry. One of my, oh mom, what are you doing here? Hey, come on in. You've never shown up, but I thought it was one of my kids coming. Julie's my mom's here.

Speaker 3: 0:52

Hi Morris. His mom just started a podcast episode. Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:02

Have a standby. Okay, well have a good tribe. Tell dad, I said hi. Okay. Doke. Call me driving back over to Eastern Washington today. Oh, where were we? Um, am I going to edit that out? I don't know. I might just let it stand we'll uh, so making the cut is the new project runway, which is a show that I love where the bunch of fashion designers compete. And so we've been watching it with my girls and of course now they both really want to be fashion designers. And so this morning they decided to have a little fashion show with all of their dolls and their stuffed animals. And they are, you know, using ribbons and, you know, present wrapping bows and gift paper and all of this to make really, really fun little doll clothes. And at one point, Sloan comes to me with a scrap of fabric and a pair of scissors and needle and thread and says, mommy, will you make my doll a pair of pants? Well, I don't know the first thing about making doll clothes or pants, but gosh, darn it. We looked it up on YouTube and now that doll has a pair of pants and I know it's a silly thing, but I am more proud of those pants than I think I am over just about any accomplishment I've ever had. And I should probably get a picture of them before they fall apart because construction is questionable, but we did it. And it was really fun, fun thing for me and my girls this morning. The other thing that is making me really happy is that I finally had a chance to go over the listener survey results from a few weeks back. And you guys, all of your comments just really were so uplifting and encouraging, and it fills my heart with joy to hear how you guys have been enjoying this podcast. And so many of you have made it a regular part of your routine, and I just really am grateful for you and all of your support. So thank you. Thank you for listening. Thank you for filling out the survey. It really means a lot to me. Um, and for the most part, I think it sounds like you guys are pretty happy with what we're doing on this show, but a couple of your comments did give me some new ideas for things that were going to be kind of testing out here in the next few episodes. Um, just little subtle tweaks, cause I obviously want this to be the best podcast it can be. And I hope that you guys continue to listen and enjoy it week after week on that note. Oh boy, I am so happy to be talking to today's guest. If you detect a little bit of fan girling in my voice, it is not your imagination. Uh, she is the number one New York times bestselling author of a number of young adult novels, including Ramona blue side effects may vary faith taking flight Putin and Dublin, which was adapted into film by Netflix as well as the middle grade novel dear sweet pea. She has two new books out this year, pumpkin, which came out in may and her adult romance debut. If the shoe fits, which comes out tomorrow, please welcome Julie Murphy.

Speaker 3: 4:30

Hello 11 lo I'm so excited to be here. And I'm so excited that they get to talk about like a Cinderella story with you. It's such a perfect pairing. I mean, so iconic,

Speaker 2: 4:45

It couldn't be two different retellings of Cinderella too, which is one of the greatest things about this fairytale. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 4:52

Yeah. It's so great. I love it.

Speaker 2: 4:55

Well, I am a huge fan of your books. Um, they really mean a lot to me. They speak to me on like a really deep emotional level and bring me a ton of joy. So I'm just thrilled to get to talk to you today.

Speaker 3: 5:10

Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 5:12

So one of the things that kind of came up in this listener survey that we just did, um, that I thought was a really fun suggestion. Was it somebody wanted to hear more, uh, quote unquote author origin stories. Um, how did we get our start? How did we know that we wanted to be writers? How did you get your first book published, et cetera, et cetera, wherever you want to go with that question. What is your origin story?

Speaker 3: 5:39

Wow. Well, I mean, I feel like so many authors I need I'm like I knew I was going to be a writer from the first time I picked up a pen or I always wrote stories growing up or, um, you know, they were always reading and I was a casual reader growing up, but I never really gravitated towards writing. Um, it always felt so much like homework to me, so I never really found myself, uh, you know, choosing to write when I could choose to do other activities like specifically, you know, um, like direct my cousins around in Boston around. And uh, I like get into all sorts of like neighborhood trouble. Like it's just, if there was a, if there was a make-believe game where I could be the boss, then I wanted to be the boss, um, or I want him to be in charge or something like that. And I do think that that's where my love for like narration storytelling started was just bossing around every living human that came into contact with me. And then as an adult, when I realized that writing was just bossing around imaginary people, um, I think that that's what I really fell for it. Um, but it actually, so my real writing journey doesn't really begin until college. Um, I'd barely graduated high school. The class that almost held me back from graduating was surprisingly enough English class. Um, I hated reading. I hated writing at that point in my life. So by the time I made it to college, I was going to school for political science research, which sounds just about as dense. Um, as you can imagine, it would. Uh, but I really loved it. I was experiencing some real burnout around the time my senior year hit though. And that was also around the time that a little movie and a book that some of you might've heard of, uh, came out in, you know, into, I mean, the book had been out for awhile, but the movie came out the year. I was a senior in college and that was Twilight. Um, and I know that for a lot of us, our stories start with Twilight. It really expanded the genre and a huge, huge way. So I became obsessed with Twilight and I was constantly reading it and reading it over and over and over again and watching the movies. And it sort of was the first thing that I had ever read. And this isn't a knock on Stephanie at all, but it was the first thing that I'd ever read that made writing feel attainable and like something I could do. Um, it, the, it was just so different than anything that I had been forced to read growing up. It felt so much more conversational and modern. Um, and there was a lot of not so like modern ideals and Twilight, but, um, it was the first thing that made me feel like you could maybe do this. Uh, and so after I graduated, I decided to go into the world of libraries. Cause I had turned into over the course of like a year of a gracious reader. And I just couldn't imagine myself going on to law school, which was the plan. And then after that, I was intending to go to library school to become a legal librarian. Um, and so instead of doing all of that, I just decided to take a job at a library and just see what happened. And that's when I fell really hard into writing because I discovered NaNoWriMo while I was, yeah. While I was designing some programming for teens that I was working with. And, you know, the program for them was, you know, to participate in national novel writing month. Um, but they were of course hesitant to do it unless I would do it with them. And so that's really where it all started. And I wrote a really awful book that I thought was genius and I sent it to a hundred agents and they did not think it was genius. And I learned from my mistakes in a big way. And you know, the next one was my debut side effects may vary

Speaker 2: 9:44

What a complete 180 your life

Speaker 3: 9:46

Took. Amazing, totally unexpected.

Speaker 2: 9:50

I am always, I guess, not surprised, surprise, not the right word, but amazed at how many writers and especially why a writers, like you say, can trace part of their story back to Twilight. Um, I know so many writers who similar to you, like it was not a part of the plan. Writing was not the thing. And then they read Twilight and something about that book spark their creativity or gave them that encouragement they needed. It really is amazing how, just what a phenomenon that has been for the John and the community.

Speaker 3: 10:26

I really think that I know this is going to sound wild, but for me it was like the shock of like sparkling vampires. I was like, okay, if this lady has me committed to the fact that like the sky sparkles and super sexy, then I can do anything. I can make anything work. Um, yeah, exactly. So I don't know. I just, I also will admit that that time in my life was a very tumultuous time. I was having a lot of like family problems. And so it was just the perfect time to devote myself fully to anything that wasn't real. Um, so I think I found writing at a time when I really needed it most.

Speaker 2: 11:08

Yeah. Now that that happens. And I think once for a lot of us, like if you, I mean, I am one of those that I knew that I wanted to be a writer since I was really little. So I've kind of always had it as a emotional output in some way. Um, but I know a lot of people who didn't write and didn't have that. And then once they discovered it, they were like, wow, this is really powerful. Like this really works for me.

Speaker 3: 11:32

Yeah. Yeah. It was, it really took me by surprise. Um, I, I think that every time I sat down to write, I kept expecting to stop after like, you know, five or 10 minutes and then I would just keep going. And it was, it was such a surprise to know that I was capable of it. Um, and also that it was so comforting.

Speaker 2: 11:51

Yeah, definitely. And I have to add like, as this is a bit of a tangent, but very recently my girls, um, so I've got six and a half year old twins. Uh, they saw some Twilight preview something on YouTube and we're like, we have to watch this movie. And so we just finished watching all five movies, um, here, like two nights ago. And I had never seen past the first one. I remember like, you know, when did they come out? I don't know, 15 years ago or something. I remember being in the theater, it I'm in my mid twenties and thinking, oh my gosh, Edward is so dreamy. Is it just me? Or is Bella's dad actually really hot?

Speaker 3: 12:33

No, I, I think, but like once you hit the age of like 30, there's a shift in your life for me, his bills, he is a job. Yeah. There's something about that. Like dad energy.

Speaker 2: 12:52

Yeah. So I am like 100% team Bella's dad at this point. Quite the shock for you.

Speaker 3: 13:03

Well, especially having not seen the following movies after only seeing the first movie, they started to get pretty kooky. Oh

Speaker 2: 13:10

Yeah. It was a strange watch. And my husband watched them with us too. He'd never seen any of them are ready to of the books. I mean, it was just like, what is happening in this room? I know the

Speaker 3: 13:20

Weird like robot CGI, baby. I like this podcast could devolve into an entire episode

Speaker 2: 13:28

About you do that. Cause you have like 8 billion things that we should be talking about. But

Speaker 3: 13:34

The last thing I'll say is that I feel like Twilight is like experiencing like this like Renaissance right now because of Netflix just popping them all up on that flux, like all four of them. And so they're like, it's like one of the most trending things on the internet right now is people are like just devouring, these five movies and people who weren't like culturally culturally present for the like original release of the books and the movies. Um, and they're just so fascinated that this was a thing that we all love so much. So I'm really enjoying watching people like gobble these up in a new way. Yeah,

Speaker 2: 14:10

No, that's fun. And they are one of those things where like they're a pro it wasn't that long ago that they came out and yet you can see like how far we've come in some regards like as a society. But I am so happy that we seem to be past the Twilight hate period. Like I was always really annoyed with how people just would bash Twilight, like so strongly. And I'm like, yeah, maybe it's not for everyone. And it, there are flaws. I'm not going to say there aren't. But nevertheless, it was a really powerful thing for its time and made a huge difference and brought a lot of people to books and to reading and like credit that

Speaker 3: 14:52

It redefined the market in a really huge way. I mean, it's the reason why so many of my friends, like around 2010, 2011, 2012 were getting published. So I mean, you know, regardless of what you have to say for Twilight, it, it definitely was a moment that, uh, was every defining moment for publishing.

Speaker 2: 15:11

Yeah. All right. All right. Moving on. Let's talk about your new book is coming out this week, your first foray into adult romance, if the shoe fits, why don't you tell listeners a little bit about it?

Speaker 3: 15:27

Sure. Yeah. Uh, so if the shoe fits is a as part of a really fun, uh, exciting projects that I got to work on with Disney, and it's a new, what it is essentially is they're creating a line called the meant to be line. And the meant to be books are going to be retelling of the classic Disney princess tales, um, but told in a modern light and as a romcom. Uh, so they reached out to me and I got to have my first pick of princesses. And I just felt like if you were going to choose like a first princess to go with, you had to choose like, you know, the OGE Cinderella, I guess she's not the original, but almost the original. She's like the, you know, everyone's original favorite, I feel. Um, and I had a lot of like personal connection to Cinderella growing up too. So it just felt appropriate. Um, and when they reached out, I assumed that they were reaching out to me specifically for a specific reason. Cause I always liked to write plus size heroines. Um, but I made it very clear that, you know, if you're bringing me on to do this, she's definitely going to be plus-sized. Uh, so we got to, you know, we got to collaborate together on a lot of the projects. Um, and so the essential premise is that we're following Cindy, who is our modern day Cinderella and she's a rat or recent fashion school graduate. And she's feeling a little aimless. She's still really mourning the loss of her father from a few years ago and she doesn't have any prospects after graduation. So she moves from New York back to LA where her stepmother is the producer for a very popular reality TV dating show called before midnight. And while she is back at home, something happens, you know, with the cast of before midnight. And they have a, an immediate opening that they need to fill before they start filming the new season. And Cindy finds herself stepping into that opening. And, uh, you know, seeing if she can't get a little bit of, you know, buzzworthy recognition for herself and her fashion skills on the show, and then she sort of, you know, ends up falling in love along the way, which she did not plan for or expect. But isn't that always the case then your favorite romance books.

Speaker 2: 17:47

Yes. Really plans for love. No,

Speaker 3: 17:51

No, no. So it's, it's got a lot of fun, like Cinderella nods throughout. Um, there's definitely like a, a sort of like fairy, godmother type character. There's a nod to like the little mice, um, the pumpkin and it's all there. So it was really fun to sort of recreate those moments and, you know, a 2020 something way.

Speaker 2: 18:14

I love that. I loved finding all of these like Cinderella Easter eggs. Um, and there was a couple of them where I was quite far into the book when it clicked in my mind, like the, oh, the stepsisters on a stage and like little things like that. I don't know. It felt like I was on a hunt to find all your little Disney and Cinderella references. Do you have like a favorite or like a detail that you were really excited about?

Speaker 3: 18:47

So one thing we were going back and forth on forever was how to work in like the pumpkin carriage. It's just like, I, uh, I hate the idea of a horse drawn carriages. So I knew it couldn't be that every time I see them, I'm like the horses looks so sad. I can't so no shade to anyone out there who's ever gone on like a horse drawn carriage ride, but I just couldn't find myself writing into a book. Um, and so we were going back and forth and I was like, what if there was an orange cab? Um, and for anyone who lives in New York or has been in New York, you'll know that, uh, orange cabs are illegal, basically they're very uncommon. Um, but we just thought it would be a fun fluke to have like a orange mini van cab that she has to like rush into. It felt like, uh, you know, the sort of more modern take on the pumpkin. And then there are a couple of different characters who have like Harry godmother moments, but she does have one very specific fairy godmother that we wrote into the book who, um, is sort of like her producer that she's assigned to on the show and writing that character was just so, so I could write a whole book about just that character. So it was a lot of fun. She was great. Um,

Speaker 2: 20:00

And I lived with the, the fairy godmother element because it kind of felt like there were a few different characters potentially filling that role at like different moments of the story. He just adds to the magic of it. Like fate, everyone here is, is pushing fate along its path.

Speaker 3: 20:18

Yeah. I know. I, uh, you know, there's like makeup artists and hair team and even like a very disgruntled wardrobe department. Um, so there are a few different moments and then, you know, a wonderful like sort of, uh, like non-binary, non-binary Tim Gunn character along the way too, who kind of, uh, acts as a little bit of a fairy godparent.

Speaker 2: 20:45

So one of the big, obviously notable differences between if the shoe fits and like the classic Disney Cinderella story is we don't have wicked stepmother and stepsisters, you went the opposite direction and they're all actually really a close, loving family. What, where did that decision come from?

Speaker 3: 21:06

Well, I probably loved it. The idea of creating this stepmother, who was incredibly powerful in the world of Hollywood and television, um, and who some people would probably experience in a totally different way than Cindy would. So some people probably do see Cindy stepmother as, um, evil or villainous in some type of ways because she's, you know, a woman in a male dominated business who has got to get stuff done. Um, but Cindy gets to see a different side of her. And I just, I love, I love the iconic Disney villains, but to create a like full length novel, you've really got to dig a little deeper and you've really got to find the dimension in every single character. And that was really the case with, uh, Cindy stepmother and her step sister seal. Um, I feel like everything has to do with lighting if you can think of it that way. Like every character depends entirely on the lighting that they're standing in. Um, and so I think that Cindy's stepmother and stepsisters could be evil and the right lighting. Um, but because, you know, they're this great loving family who have come to, uh, really value and treasure each other. They're not in any way villainous towards each other, but there still, like, you know, there's with Cindy's stepsisters, there are still some of that like pretty girl popular girl energy that you can easily see Cindy being alienated by it at some point in her life. Um, but they've really come to like a moment of understanding at this current juncture. Yeah. And I think that kind of, um,

Speaker 2: 22:48

Helps to play at Cindy's strength and confidence too, that like she has these two older, beautiful, popular kind of Instagram gorgeous sisters. And I feel like so many writers would take that to the obvious natural place of, oh, this is a competition, there's this envy happening here. And I really admire that. You didn't do that.

Speaker 3: 23:14

I mean, I family dynamics and I think that just making them like, you know, a very like simply villainous, like sort of like one shade of interest type of character would have been the easy way out. I think that really adding some dimension to those characters is what makes it fun. And what makes it a little more complicated, especially when you walk into a story, knowing it's a Cinderella retelling, you've got really specific expectations. Um, so I, I really, I really enjoyed flipping that on its head.

Speaker 2: 23:48

Yeah, no, I like it, it kind of keeps readers on their toes too. It's like right off the bat, you don't know what to expect. Right. Right. And then plus there's like some competition with the other contestants. Like I almost felt like some of the other contestants in this, you know, bachelor esque show were in some ways filling that role of the evil step sisters too.

Speaker 3: 24:10

Definitely. Definitely without giving away too much, there is for sure. One specific character who sort of is the epitome of every like awful reality TV show, dating class that you've ever come across. Um, I didn't start watching avidly of a bachelor until a few years ago, especially it really kicked up, of course, when I started writing this book. Um, but like just in the recent years, I can think of a few girls who would like perfectly step into this role of just being absolutely heinous. Um, so I actually think that like, it's, it's almost like a more aspirational for most of the girls in the show to be as nice as they are compared to like the reality of what we get on, you know, a lot of reality TV dating shows.

Speaker 2: 25:01

Yeah. You know, I've never actually seen the bachelor, which feels like very anti 21st century, like who hasn't ever seen this show,

Speaker 3: 25:10

You know? I mean, I feel like if you've seen a commercial for the bachelor, you've essentially seen the bachelor

Speaker 2: 25:18

I'm about halfway through reading your book. It did make me curious because obviously we are rooting for Cindy to get her man and to have her happily ever after. And then I was like, is it realistic? Does it ever happen? Have any of these couples ever stayed together? And I had to go and Google it. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 25:38

I think it's, what is it like the first couple are still together.

Speaker 2: 25:44

And then I had a couple where like the bachelor and or bachelorette had chosen someone, but later changed their mind and went with one of the other contestants and they're still together. I was like, well, that's kind of interesting.

Speaker 3: 25:56

One of my favorite, uh, like bachelor franchise stories is I think like bachelor Australia or something, two of the female contestants ended up falling in love with each other. How great isn't that wonderful. Uh, so I, I do, I think that like in those massive pools of people, I think it's possible to find someone. Um, but I, I don't think, I mean, I, I think that if you look at the statistics of how many of them have stayed together or how many of them have actually worked out, like it makes sense. Right? Yeah. I mean, it's a

Speaker 2: 26:35

Kind of a ridiculous premise for finding your fun, true love, but we're romantics, so

Speaker 3: 26:43

It feels commercial space. Right. Um,

Speaker 2: 26:47

So I, I knew that this was the first in a series. I didn't realize that it was something that you had been approached about and I'm curious, so they let you pick Cinderella and then did they, did, did the publisher already have ideas for where they wanted you to take it? Or were you like fully in control here?

Speaker 3: 27:08

Yeah. So speaking from more of like a writer standpoint, so this is technically a package project. Um, and so they, you know, they approached us with various, uh, princesses with like different, um, like really short, you know, quick pitches for each of them, like just ideas to bounce off of, but it was also made perfectly clear that like, you should create anything you want out of this. You should pitch anything you want from, you know, that you might have that's different than something that's already been thought up. Um, so yeah, it it's, uh, it, it was something that they were, they had a vision for it, but they were really open to something else. They really wanted to trust the writers and they really wanted the stories to be identity based and they wanted them to be specific, you know, so they, uh, I can't give away any of the other writers of course, but like, that was going to be my next question. I know Schrader has been chosen for a reason because there's something that they do and they do really well. Um, so they wanted us, they, they want me, I was the, you know, when I was signed up for this, I was the only writer on this project. Um, they, they really wanted for me to play to my strengths and to do what I do best. Um, and that, that specifically was something that really excited me that I would get to be part of such an iconic franchise, like, you know, the Disney princess empire and also get to do something that was so uniquely me and so myself. Um, so it felt, I mean, I've done packaged work before, but this felt different if that makes sense, because it really felt like I, I had all the creative, um, freedom that I could have wanted with this, which was really exciting.

Speaker 2: 29:03

Well, I really love what you did with it. Um, and I'm curious, so this is your first, uh, quote unquote adult romance. Um, and I say that because it's very clean, so maybe read a lot of like really steamy romances. This one's a fairly PG rated. Um, but you've written a lot of WIA romances before. Did you approach the romance differently and like what, what did you learn from that? How, how are they similar? How are they different?

Speaker 3: 29:35

Yeah. So this is definitely a very clean romance. I've constantly been telling librarians and booksellers that this is a really good stepping stone into romance for teen readers. Um, or, you know, it's, it's a romance that you could easily like book club with your mom without feeling awkward, you know? Um, but I think that for me, like the, the biggest difference and it's, in some ways it's the same difference. I feel jumping from middle-grade CYA is just like, who are you going to for help? And who are you scared of being caught doing anything by, you know what I mean? Um, those are like for me, writing contemporary Yia, that's like a big, big difference. Um, is, you know, who are the adults in the room await? I am the adult in the room. Um, so that was, I think the like a little bit of freedom, a little bit excitement, but it took me a while to get used to, as a writer like this girl can do anything she wants to do. She's an adult woman. Um, and I'm sure that you can relate as someone who's written way for a while. It's just like, it's kind of like, it's kind of like the cell phone problems. Like I feel like writing was completely revolutionized when writers had to adopt the fact that like we had cell phones and they weren't going anywhere. That's sort of been like my transition into adult where it's like, oh my God, there's no adults. Like, there's no high school. There's no, there's no like, you know, uh, created sort of a social ladder or social, uh, like setting that we're going to have to specifically worry about. So it's all something that I get to create on my own. Um, so yeah, it's, it's definitely been different. It was a nice, I mean, I say it as a stepping stone readers, but it was also a really big stepping stone for me because I have another romance coming out next year and it's definitely not as clean as this. Um, so it was a nice, like, you know, warmup for me to kind of get a little bit used to something new and something different

Speaker 2: 31:42

[inaudible], but I'm excited to hear you have another one in the works

Speaker 3: 31:46

I do. Yeah. And that's, you shouldn't be surprised.

Speaker 2: 31:48

I feel like you are just a machine these days so much coming out.

Speaker 3: 31:53

Well, I feel like what the state of the world as it's should come to no surprise the way that I found I can really like dive into writing and find comfort there. It feels like as the world has gotten more tumultuous in the last few years, I've just sunk even more into my writing. Um, and I feel really lucky to be able to, so, yeah,

Speaker 2: 32:13

Definitely. Um, so kind of on a similar now, as far as like writing romance goes, obviously one of the reasons that I connect so strongly to your books, and I'm sure lots of your readers do is because you are writing full-figured characters, uh, men and women you've written both. And I love that. Like, you just didn't see that, um, when I was growing up, like that's what, why my, what my teenage years were missing, uh, was seeing a girl who was curvy, who was one of the bigger girls in the class still find love and find confidence and joy, and that just doesn't didn't exist. Or at least I certainly never saw it for you when you're writing romances. Do you think that it's different writing romance with a full-figured character or not? Is it just everyone deserves to find love?

Speaker 3: 33:10

Yeah, so, um, I, even when I shared writing, I didn't write fat characters at first because it took me a long time to retrain my body and my mind and realize that fat characters deserve to have their stories told. Um, and that was just years of salts self-hatred and self-loathing that I really had to work through to realize that like there deserves to be a fat narrative and I, and I used the word fat and I use it very purposefully because I don't think the word fat is about word. I think it's a neutral word and I'm totally fine and happy to have people use it around me and about me. Um, I do think that for any listeners out there, it's a good thing to wait for the person who you might use the word fat, um, in regards to, it's a good idea for them, for you to wait for them to use the breath themselves so that you can, it's, it's sort of, and a very slight way, almost like gender. Like you might want to find out what words everyone prefers. Um, but I'm totally on board for that. It means a lot to me. Um, and I, it, it doesn't feel any different to me now, all these years later, writing fat characters and writing fat romance, because I have found that like, that's my life. Like I am, I'm a fat person who's in love. I am a fat person who gets to do incredible and exciting things. And so it doesn't feel revolutionary to me in the moment when I'm writing it. But when I sit back and look at it in context of the world, around me, it's, it's very exciting and very different. Um, but in the moment when I'm writing it, it just feels like a very normal and everyday thing to me, which is sort of exciting if you think about where I started and how hard of a time I had letting myself write other effects.

Speaker 2: 35:03

No, and I get that. And I've, you know, I remember thinking back to like what movies I loved and brome coms and all of this. And I was like, if ever there was a, I will say, I do not like the word fat. I'm not there

Speaker 3: 35:18

Yet. That's okay. Um, whenever

Speaker 2: 35:22

There was a curvy girl at like the heart of the story, well, we knew it was going to be a make-over story. Like the point is, oh, well, she's going to lose the weight and get, get the guy. And it really wasn't until fairly recently that I could look back and how, you know, bad, this is how, how it's just so disrespectful in so many ways and, and hurtful. Um, and so then I remember the first time I was actually at a, uh, like a cocktail party at book con, um, and talking to an editor and I asked, you know, what books are coming out that you're excited about. And she mentioned dumpling and she, and I hadn't heard of it at that point. And she says, you have to go look it up, go look at the cover. There is a full figured girl, unapologetically looking awesome on the cover. And it was like mind blowing. And I've been a fan of you ever since.

Speaker 3: 36:20

Oh, um, I remember like I immediately,

Speaker 2: 36:23

When I emailed my publicist and I was like, have you heard of this book? Can you get me a copy?

Speaker 3: 36:28

That's so sweet of you. Thank you. I think that, um, it's, it's so weird to look back and see that like, wow, that book came out seven years ago. Um, and it definitely wasn't like the first book to have like a fat character friend center unapologetically, but it was the first book I think, to get that kind of, um, publicity push behind it, which was, uh, definitely really exciting and something that has changed the course of my career. And not only that, but has really helped clear the path for more books like it, at least I hope so. I, I,

Speaker 2: 37:04

I, I think it has to, um, it's been so great. And of course the Netflix movie was wonderful and all of that, and I loved pumpkin. We, I know we're starting to run out of time. Like, there's still like a ton of things that I talked to you about, um, briefly tell people a little bit about your book, that your, why a book that came out this year, pumpkin, because I loved

Speaker 3: 37:27

It. Yeah. Because I am a fan. I actually have two way books out this year. Um, so it's a three book year for me, which is shocking. Um, but I'll have the follow-up to faith the second in that duology out in November and then, oh, it's okay. And then, um, so pumpkin came out in may and pumpkin is definitely like one of those like book of my heart kind of books. Um, it really just means a lot to me. And it's also sort of bittersweet cause it's the third and final book in the dumpling series. Um, so pumpkin takes place in the same town as dumpling and put in, and it follows Whalen who is a fat senior in high school, he's and very fem leaning. Um, and he has a passion for drag and, uh, something happens to where he creates his own audition tape for his favorite drag show he's door. She sort of does it in the heat of the moment, not expecting anything to come of it and then goes to sleep like his face, like smeared with makeup and forgets that he even recorded this, uh, audition tape in the middle of the night. Uh, and then a few days later he finds that he, because of like a tech technological oopsie, the video has been spread around the school and everyone has now seen his sort of ridiculous drag audition tape. And as a joke, he's nominated for prom queen. And because it's the world of dumpling, he decides that I am going to take this nomination and I'm going to run with it. And he ends up being nominated alongside Hannah, who some people will recognize from the other two books. And Hannah is nominated for prom king and Waylon is nominated for prom queen and they just decide what the hell let's do this. And it turns out to be a pretty gay prom.

Speaker 2: 39:22

Yeah, no, I loved it. I listened to it on audio book and the narrator was fantastic.

Speaker 3: 39:30

Yeah. So the narrator is actually Chad Burris. He's a Broadway actor. He was, um, and book of Mormon and he was also in mean girls and, uh, frozen. He played Olaf and frozen and then me girls, he plays, oh my gosh, what is his name? But the like the tall gay boy and mean girls. So it's so funny. The, she doesn't even go here line guy. Um, I can't remember his name right now, but he is just such a wonderful actor. And he happened to have the year off for obvious reasons. And so I w we were able to get him scenario, the audio book, which is very exciting.

Speaker 2: 40:08

That is super exciting. Um, and then yes, faith. I, I didn't know number two was coming out. I didn't know it was also coming out this

Speaker 3: 40:17

Year. It's still shocking to me that there's a third book this year. I

Speaker 2: 40:23

Love faith. I was familiar with the comics before your Y a team out. So I was just so excited to see that you were the one doing it. I don't actually have a question, but like

Speaker 3: 40:40

Favorite superheroes, it's been a really exciting project to work on. I'm I, with any project I'm sad to see you then, but I think that everyone would be happy with the way the duology wraps up. So that'll be fun. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:54

Did you, were you a fan of faith when they approached you? Yeah, I'm

Speaker 3: 40:59

Like a huge comics person. Um, and I think that probably has a lot to do with like toxic comic culture, but I never, I always sort of like shied away from, um, so I was always a casual fan of faith. And then when I found out they were looking for a writer for this project, it was like, oh my gosh, a fat weave. Plus-size whatever you want to call her super hero. Like, this is just something I have to jump at. Um, so the, yeah, that was another sort of, uh, like package projects in a way that I got to be a part of. And it's been so fun.

Speaker 2: 41:32

Yeah. So fun. Oh my gosh. Okay. And I know we're just like zipping through things right now, but stop being so prolific, Julie,

Speaker 3: 41:42

Bye. Don't worry. It's only a one book year. Next year. For me, we're taking a little bit of a break now. Right? What do you think happened?

Speaker 2: 41:52

Well, I do, of course have to mention that you and I are doing a project together, um, for people who are familiar, I am editing an anthology of romantic stories. That's coming out in January and Julie is one of my awesome authors. I was so excited when you said yes to the project. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 42:12

Gosh, well, you've been very generous with me and time and deadlines. So I excited to take part in this and thank you for your generosity. Oh gosh, my

Speaker 2: 42:23

Pleasure. And I love your story. We obviously won't spoil anything. Um, but the, the anthology is based on romantic tropes. Do you just briefly want to tell people what is the trope that you were working with and maybe just a hint about your story,

Speaker 3: 42:39

A short or so my trope is the fake dating trope and, um, let's see, there's musical theater, a squirrel costume, um, and two people who live next door to each other, which is also like one of my favorite, more like Yia friendly tropes is like next door neighbors. Uh, so yes, lots of, lots of fun. I can't wait to read the whole collection. I'm dying

Speaker 2: 43:07

And there's so good. I really have just been over the moon, seeing what everybody has come up with it. I smile every time I think about this collection. And I'm like, I'm so excited for it to come out.

Speaker 3: 43:20

Now I have to, I've been meaning to ask, are you just editing or do you have a story in the collection? I

Speaker 2: 43:26

Do have a story as well. I did the one bed trope.

Speaker 3: 43:32

Ooh, that's a good one. It

Speaker 2: 43:34

Was really fun to try to think, like, how do I write the one bed trope and keep it G rated,

Speaker 3: 43:40

Right? Yeah. It was a bit of a challenge. That's a really good question. I, um, I'm currently reading a romance book with that trip and I just, it's always such a delight when it happens. Cause it's like it's romance. There's something so comforting about that. Familiar. I just love it. I know me too.

Speaker 2: 43:57

And I mean just tropes in general. Like there's a reason that we come back to them again and again. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Awesome. Um, okay. Now it is time to wrap this up with our happy writer bonus round. Okay. Um, so this is one of the things we're going to kind of test out and little bit of a new thing. We're going to do it a little bit lightning round ish, and we'll see how it goes. Alright. Tea or coffee, neither

Speaker 3: 44:30

Option option. I know I'm so sorry, but I mean, I guess I like flavored sweetened. I don't know, but I just, as Ted lasso says, tea is just hot brown water and coffee tastes like jet fuel to me. So

Speaker 2: 44:46

What do you drink when you're writing? See, we've gone off.

Speaker 3: 44:51

Like, I, I have a real passion for, uh, iced drinks, iced water specifically. And I specifically love nugget ice, which if you've ever been to a Sonic, it's the kind of ice they have at a Sonic, but it's just little ice pellets that you can just chew on and chomp on. And so as one of my traits, like for like a royalty check or something, I bought myself my own nugget, ice machine. I'm sorry that wasn't very lightning round to me. I love

Speaker 2: 45:20

It. I feel like I know you so much better. Now.

Speaker 3: 45:22

There you go. Plotter or pantser. Oh, um, I mean, pants are by nature, but plotter by necessity, you know, like you got to get those, uh, advanced checks. Yeah. I hear ya.

Speaker 2: 45:39

Music or silence music writing in the morning or at night night going to a sunny beach or a snowy mountain.

Speaker 3: 45:50

Oh, oh, this is so hard. Uh, sunny beach.

Speaker 2: 45:55

What's your favorite writing snack?

Speaker 3: 45:58

Ooh. Um, I always find cheese at crumbs in my keywords, so I feel like that's gotta be the answer.

Speaker 2: 46:09

What book makes you happy?

Speaker 3: 46:12

Oh, um, gosh, the one I'm reading right now, I'm really obsessed with. So I'll go with people. We meet on vacation by Emily. Henry.

Speaker 2: 46:21

What is your personal mantra?

Speaker 3: 46:26

Um, oh, hang on. I've got something new that I wrote down here. Um, we'll go with the Dolly Parton ism. It's hard to be a diamond in a rhinestone world. I love that quote. Where can people find you? Um, uh, in, in a dark corner usually? Um, I'm probably most readily found on, uh, Instagram. I do have, uh, Twitter and Facebook and all those things, but I'm most active, active on Instagram where you can find me as, and I'm Julie. Awesome.

Speaker 2: 47:06

Julie, thank you so much for joining me today. This was so

Speaker 3: 47:10

Fun. I was so happy to do it.

Speaker 2: 47:13

I loved getting to chat with you and I am hoping we can do it again because you're just so busy. And I just want to hear about all your things. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 47:22

I would love to do this again. Please have me back so much fun leaders. Be

Speaker 2: 47:27

Sure to check out Julie's many projects. Pumpkin is out. Now. If the shoe fits comes out this week, the cul to faith will be out later this year. I imagine it's probably available for pre-order.

Speaker 3: 47:40

Oh, you're such a good bookseller. Yes it is.

Speaker 2: 47:45

Um, of course we always encourage you to support your local indie. If you can, if you don't have a local indie, you can check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/marissa Meyer. Next week, I'll be talking to Tori Bolina about her debut paranormal thriller. The devil makes three. It sounds super creepy and I cannot wait. I hope you will listen in. If you're enjoying these conversations, please subscribe and follow us on Instagram at Marissa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy, stay cozy and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling a little bit happier.

Speaker 1: 48:32

[inaudible].