The Happy Writer with Marissa Meyer
Writing the Book of Your Heart with Marie Lu - Skyhunter & Steelstriker
Marissa is joined by listener Allison Phillips to chat with Marie Lu about her new futuristic duology - SKYHUNTER and STEELSTRIKER - as well as how characters who speak different languages and have different communication styles makes for some unique writing challenges, but ultimately add depth and realism to your world building; what to do with that book of your heart when the market isn't quite ready for it; a great tip for differentiating character voices when writing from two separate first-person POVs; and some of the difficulties of creating during the pandemic, but how we can care for our own mental health by inserting pinpoints of light and optimism into our work. Plus: Marissa's favorite new tip for snacking-while-writing (and avoiding getting your keyboard all messy)!
Purchasing your books through our webstore at Bookshop.org supports independent bookstores.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
Marissa is joined by listener Allison Phillips to chat with Marie Lu about her new futuristic duology - SKYHUNTER and STEELSTRIKER - as well as how characters who speak different languages and have different communication styles makes for some unique writing challenges, but ultimately add depth and realism to your world building; what to do with that book of your heart when the market isn't quite ready for it; a great tip for differentiating character voices when writing from two separate first-person POVs; and some of the difficulties of creating during the pandemic, but how we can care for our own mental health by inserting pinpoints of light and optimism into our work. Plus: Marissa's favorite new tip for snacking-while-writing (and avoiding getting your keyboard all messy)!
Purchasing your books through our webstore at Bookshop.org supports independent bookstores.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/
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Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I am your host, Marissa Meyer. Thank you for joining me. One thing that's making me happy this week. Did you know that next year 2022 is the 10 year anniversary of cinder? My very first novel came out in 2012 and my publisher has decided to try to make a big deal out of it. And so they're like releasing a special edition and we're going to be coming up with, I dunno, some fun promo stuff. And so I have been brainstorming and trying to come up with something really fun that I can do to kind of celebrate. And I really wanted to give something back to you guys, the readers and I a few months ago had this really wacky idea for a new writing project. Um, and I'm going to have to be really vague about it because we haven't announced it yet, but it is a new story. It's something that's a very different than I have ever written before. Um, but it's going to be so much fun and I'm so excited for it. And just this week, my publisher gave me the thumbs up to go forward and write it and we will make a way to get it to you guys next year, around the release of, uh, the cinder ten-year anniversary edition. So I know that's vague. I know it's like a huge teaser, more details will come, obviously. Um, but just for now, I'm so excited and having so much fun with it. Also making me happy today is it for this episode, I have a partner in crime to help me out. If you recall, a few months back, we asked you listeners to fill out a survey and tell us how we're doing on this podcast and listeners who filled out that survey were entered to win a chance to co-host an episode. Well, today is that episode and we're going to have so much fun without further ado. Please let me introduce my co-host. She is a 21 year old senior at Utah valley university, where she is currently studying English with an emphasis in creative writing. She also works as an assistant librarian at her local library and is generally very passionate about reading and writing. Please. Welcome. Alison Phillips. Hello. Hi, welcome. Alison. I'm so happy to have you here. I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me. My absolute pleasure. Uh, I have to ask as my cohost, what is making you happy this week? Oh, well, um, it would probably be cheating if I doing
Speaker 3:This podcast right now. Um, well, oh, now I have to think about this.
Speaker 2:Can you actually can use that answer? I will allow it.
Speaker 3:Okay, sure. Yeah. Let's just stick with that.
Speaker 2:Um, and how are you feeling? Are you, do you feel ready and excited?
Speaker 3:Um, as ready as I'll ever be? Definitely very excited and definitely very nervous, but that's okay. We'll just keep going forward
Speaker 2:So much fun. You picked an awesome guest for us to talk to. Um, and on that note, would you please do the honors of introducing today's guest?
Speaker 3:I would love to, um, our guest author today is the number one New York times best selling author of many, many books, including the legend series, the young elites trilogy, the Warcross series, Batman night Walker, the kingdom of back and most recently sky hunter. Her next book, steel striker comes out on September 28th. Everyone please welcome Marie Lou. Hi everyone
Speaker 4:One. Thank you so much Ellison. Um, and Marissa for having me on the podcast, I am super excited to connect with all of you.
Speaker 2:We are very, very happy to have you and Alison, we were emailing and I asked her what author, like, who's your number one that you would like to talk to you and your name came up? And I was like, yes, definitely. I would love to have Maria on. So this is perfect.
Speaker 4:Thank you. It's absolutely my honor to be on. Um, and I'm super excited to talk to you, Alison,
Speaker 3:I'm excited to talk to you too. So that works out.
Speaker 2:So before we get into Alison's questions, I have a question for each of you. Uh, first of all, Alison of all of the authors that you could have requested to talk to here on the happy writer podcast, why Marie?
Speaker 3:That is a great question. Um, well I think most of us have heard of Marie's name. She is a pillar in the young adult book community. Um, I was introduced to her work when I was in middle school, actually with the legend Syrians, as many people were probably, um, and those years were very formative for my journey as a writer. That's when I really discovered my love for writing and realized I wanted to be a writer. Um, and there were several books that kind of cemented that passion for me. Um, one of which being the lunar Chronicles, of course by you, Marissa, but the other one, um, being the legend trilogy by Marie, actually I remember, um, being in ninth grade and on the bus to like a field trip or something and discussing the end of champion, which I won't spoil because it's so good, but it was so emotionally impactful that me and my friends, we just sat down and talked about it, the whole bus ride that,
Speaker 4:Oh, you guys are giving me all the fields. So, so much Alison. And it means I can't tell you what it means to me to, to hear that. And especially to hear that you were reading it in middle school. I remember that time being so formative for myself as well, uh, as a writer and how much the books that I read meant to me then and what an impact they made on me when I was, you know, learning how to learning the craft, learning how to write. And so I, I can't tell you what that means. Thank you so, so much if I, gosh, well, and also, oh my gosh, I can't believe legend has been out in the world for, for so long. It kind of feels like yesterday sometimes, but, um, yeah. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:What year did legend come out?
Speaker 4:Uh, 2011
Speaker 2:And it was close to cinder. I wasn't sure if you're a little before. Yeah. You just had your ten-year anniversary. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Well it's coming up in like four months. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Are you doing anything special for it?
Speaker 4:Um, maybe like privately. I mean, I, yeah, I'm, I'm just really honored and excited that legend has been around for so long. And it's it. I don't know. Now I hear, you know, like I hear from readers who like you, Alison had read it in middle school and are now, you know, in college and doing amazing things with your lives and becoming writers. So it's just, it's truly an honor to be, um, to have been read by by you. So thank you.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you.
Speaker 2:So that is an excellent segue into my question for you, Marie, because we usually start with our interviews here on the podcast wanting to know about your author origin story. Uh, so I'd love to know whether that's, how you knew that you wanted to be a writer or how did legend come to be published? What is your origin story?
Speaker 4:Yeah. Um, I guess like the, the beginning, beginning of my origin story is, um, I moved to the states when I was five, uh, from China and settled with my parents in, in Louisiana, in new Orleans. And, um, and I didn't know English yet and my parents didn't either. So, um, my mom gave me this assignment to go to kindergarten every day and like write down five English words and memorize them and put them into sentences and like look up what they meant and that kind of thing. So, um, so that was technically how I started writing was that I needed to learn the language and, um, and then like very quickly once, you know, had picked up enough of the language to know what to do with it. I realized that I just really enjoyed writing these little paragraphs for myself every day. So I started doing it all the time. Like I remember I, um, you know, I liked, I liked reading a lot. Uh, once I learned English, I liked, um, things like drawing and playing video games, all that. Like, I always knew that I was kind of like, uh, like a right-brain kid. Um, but I really loved writing. Um, and I remember stapling together, little booklets for myself and like putting little illustrations and paragraphs in them and just writing a little fan fiction and things like that. And, but I didn't really know that you could become a writer. Like, I don't know where I thought books came from. I just thought they just kind of like fell off either and were in the library, never associated the names on those, um, books with real people. But, um, and that didn't happen until I was in middle school. I was, I want to say I was 13 and I read some article in the paper about this 13 year old girl who had gotten her first book deal with Simon and Schuster. Yeah. Um, I can't remember her name is Emilia Atwater Rhodes. Uh, and she had written a vampire book and sold it. And I just thought that was the coolest, it blew my mind because first I was like, oh my God, real people write books. Like that's a thing. And then I was like, oh my God, she's 13. And I'm 13. If she can do it, maybe I can do it. And I remember feeling just so blown away by that article that I just started writing more seriously. That was the moment when I knew I wanted to become a writer somehow in some way. So I started writing more seriously and I wrote my first, um, really awful novel when I was 14. Um, it was like a Lord of the rings knockoff. I really hope none of you ever seen my first really inspired, um, yeah, I, it was, it was so bad. I thought it was great. I mean, I, I sent it to like every agent and I've got like a hundred rejection letters back. No one even wanted to like ask for chapters. Cause they're like, this is terrible. Um, but then I wrote, like, I remember I wrote a second manuscript, um, a few years later and I did get an agent with it, but we shopped it around in and it just wasn't good enough to be picked up so it didn't get anywhere. And then I went to college and I thought I was going to be like a doctor or a lawyer or something a little bit more stable. So I study biology and political science, both of which were really interesting, but I don't think I was really cut out for either one of those professions. Um, and then I wrote like a third draft that my agent really hated my agent at the time really hated. And so we parted ways and I wasn't like this big circle, um, and then stopped writing for a couple of years, uh, in college. And then, and then I ended up in, in video games for a while because like I was graduating, I didn't know what to do with life. And I was just feeling kind of like, well, you know, I'm my writing's not going anywhere. Maybe I'm not meant for like something in the creative fields. You know, I remember having that feeling when I was, um, like 21 or 22 and just feeling like, you know, maybe this is like a pipe dream. This is something that I'm not really cut out for. And so, um, so I remember feeling pretty dejected like before I was about to graduate, just walking around campus, feeling very email about it, whole, the whole thing. And then, um, and then I walked past this, this kiosk on campus that had a bulletin on it from the, from the Walt Disney studios and their video game division was having an internship. And so the, the thing literally said like, do you like to play video games? Do you like to draw? And I was like, I like both of those things. Great. And then I read the whole thing and they were like, oh, well, we're looking for interns to come work with us for six months. Um, paid. And what you do is you come up with video game ideas for six months for us and a think tank. And I was like, that sounds amazing. Um, and I think it was like my, it was like the perfect excuse at the time for me to kind of run away from my responsibilities. I was supposed to go to law school and was about to like send them the acceptance letter and all that. And then I was like, I can't, I can't do it. So I was just like running back to my dorm and looking up everything about this internship and then ended up, um, uh, filling out an application and, uh, getting into this internship. And I ended up in video games for awhile. And I always tell that because as part of the writing journey, just because working in video games was probably my best experience that I ever had in a, in a corporate world. Um, because it was my first experience working in an environment, completely surrounded by other creatives. And I had never been around that, um, in my life up until then. And all of a sudden I was around these people who were really interested in things like story and art and, um, things that I didn't think that cool quote adults were allowed to be enthusiastic about, you know, like fantasy and sci-fi like, they were all kind of like-minded people. And so, so that gave me back my writing inspiration. And I remember a few months after I began working there, um, I started writing again and I wrote a fourth manuscript, um, and submitted it and, uh, got a new agent with it. My current agent, Kristen Nelson. And, uh, she shopped around and didn't get anywhere. But, but while that was getting rejected, I was writing legend. Um, so legend was my fifth. And, uh, and I remember when we sent that out, the response was, was so different from all of my past rejected manuscripts. And it was like, we submitted it. And then within, you know, like three days we had an offer and I just remember thinking, oh my God, is this what it's like? So it was, it was a really, you know, and I remember at the time, I don't remember who asked me, they were like, oh, oh my God, it's an overnight success. And I was like, well, you know, it was like overnight and like 12 years, so sort of overnight, but it took a long time to get to that point. And, you know, it changed my life and I've been incredibly grateful and humble to be doing this, uh, ever since then. So that's kind of like my, my abbreviated, you know, how I, how I came to be a writer story.
Speaker 2:I love that story. I love how many twists and turns that it does and
Speaker 4:Yet not have stuff,
Speaker 2:But yet there's this through line of wanting to create stories and like, your life just kind of kept pulling you back to that. So to me, I mean, you were clearly destined for this.
Speaker 4:Yeah. I feel like, uh, uh, for a lot of people, creative people can be late, especially with writing. I think that we all go through periods of where we feel incredibly creative and able to write and periods of the writer's block and of, um, you know, where you feel like you, you can't do it or this is your last time, or you're never gonna make it. And then, and, and even when the inspiration runs low, you know, I feel like eventually when you're a creative person that, that itch just always comes back at some point. So, you know, and with the pandemic, I know it's been so hard on, on so many creative people. Like it, it weighs on you. So I, and I know that it's been hard for a lot of writers that I know, but, you know, eventually that inspiration will come back again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. That makes me really curious, Alison, and I know you have like a bunch of questions prepared that you're probably like itching to get to, but I want to know, cause you're going to college and getting a creative writing degree. Where are you on your journey? Like, are you working on a manuscript? Have you queried agents yet? Like what square are you?
Speaker 3:Um, that is an excellent question. I have not gotten to the querying point yet. I have written many first drafts of many books. Um, I'm definitely very busy with school right now. So unfortunately I have not made progress in my current, uh, first draft of many scripts there, but, um, the goal one day is to be published. So I'm just towards the beginning of that journey for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You will get there for sure.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And I think it's so great actually, that you are working really hard on writing first drafts until you find something that you love before you query it. Um, I think I've spoken to a lot of people who, who are in a rush to get that first query letter out, but it sounds like very much like you are working on your craft. Um, and, and like that is truly the most important step. So that is awesome. And I'm so excited for you. I love that your, your intro creative writing degree and that you're doing this and I, you will get there like Marissa said. It's super exciting.
Speaker 3:Thank you, Alison. Why don't you go ahead with whatever questions you have from a read? Oh, yes. Sounds good. Um, well, let's start with the big one. Um, Marie, can you tell listeners about the book sky hunter and steel striker for us?
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely. Um, sky hunter is steel. Stryker are a duology. So steel Stryker will actually round out this, this current series. Um, sky hunter is set in the far future, like 5,000 years in our future, um, in a regressed version of our society where they have completely forgotten that we've existed. You know, this is, um, a world where, um, you, some calamity happened in the past and kind of wiped us from the face of the planet, except for us, you know, remaining ruined. So, so people find doesn't use the future are living in this, in this regressed society where they can see the ruins of our society, but they don't really know a lot about what happened to us. Um, and in this world, um, there is a massive war going on between this giant Federation that has taken over pretty much every country in the world. And this tiny, tiny country called Maura, which is the last free nation in the world. And the story follows a girl named Talon, who is one of the most elite warriors in this tiny country of Maura, um, and how she and her found family of other elite warriors are doing their best to try to hold the line, uh, against this Federation that, um, is, is very, very close to taking them over. Um, so it's about her and it's also about this boy named red and red is a, uh, uh, escaped Federation soldier that they find and capture on the war front one day. And, um, it's supposed to be executed, but Talon steps in for him. Um, and, uh, with the feeling that she's, there's something about him that could be useful, you know, Tamara and, and the two of them just absolutely hate each other. At first, it's very much like an enemy's a lovers story, um, where they are from opposite sides of this war, but then one day, you know, she discovers that, um, he may actually be, um, the secret to Mara winning this war. Uh, there is something mysterious about him, um, that, uh, that could help him turn the tide. So the story is, is, is very much about their relationship and how it changes. It's about what exactly is red and, um, and talent and her found family. It's very much a story about, you know, who in your life deserves your love and your care and, um, the people that she surrounds herself with. So I, I it's, I had so much fun writing this story. Um, it's a book that, um, that happened during the pandemic. So this is my UPenn demic series, and it was both the most difficult thing I've ever had to write because of the pandemic, but also one of the most rewarding. Um, and probably also because of that, because I, you know, in going through talent struggles, um, through sky hunter and now with steel Stryker, the conclusion, I felt like I was channeling a lot of my own feelings and emotions into it, and it gave me a lot of catharsis. So I am really, really excited for, for people to get a chance to read about talent and read, um, and see what happens to them and steel Stryker.
Speaker 3:Um, that perfectly leads into one of my questions actually. Um, because I, as I was reading these books and I mean this in the best way possible, they seemed like emotionally exhausting books to write.
Speaker 4:Oh, thank you. It does mean a lot. I'm glad cross.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no definitely came across. Um, so, and you touched on this already a little bit, but I was wondering if maybe you could expand on that and talk about the happy writer side of it. Like, how did you keep your mental health in check while writing these very dark exhausting stories?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think when it comes to writing dark stories, the only way that I find myself able to get through it is by putting in, you know, pinpoints of light and with, with sky hunter and steel Stryker, it was very, very much, um, glimpses of talent, the good people and talents life, and the fact that Talon herself is a good person. Um, the other very dark series that I wrote was the young elites and, and, and the young elites was, was difficult for me looking back because I chose to write it. Um, so that the main character was the villain and it was a very, very exhausting Headspace to be in for years and years. So when I wrote this series, I knew immediately that I wanted, even though the story to be dark, that talent's Headspace was a good place to be. And that, um, and Red's Headspace was a good place to be, you know, red is, uh, the other point of view character that we get and steel Stryker, and they are both young people who have, you know, they're not, they're not perfect. They're not Clark cans or anything like that, but they're, but they've made mistakes, but they're, but they're fundamentally good people at heart. And, and, and what made them good people, what made talent, especially a good person is that she has good people in her life. And she has, she has a group of friends that she has chosen that, um, proper up when she's down and support her through her tough times. And I really loved writing about that. I love writing about her relationship with her mother. She has a very strong bond with her mother, um, and these kinds of very human, um, comforts, um, kind of kept me through this series because otherwise I feel like this would have just been the most depressing series, right. I would have never been able to pull myself through it, but I really loved writing that. It, it kind of allowed me to think about the people that, that mattered, you know, in my home life and, and talk about that, um, in the writing. So, so I, I feel like you need that cushion when you write a dark story. So, um, so that was what pulled me through.
Speaker 3:Wow. That was a beautiful answer.
Speaker 2:Uh, things that I loved to, especially about talent is there so much optimism in this character and, and in these books, the odds are just stacked against these characters. I mean, you can just feel the Federation looming over them. And there's so many points where it seems like there's, they have no reason to keep fighting, and yet they always persevere. And for me as a reader, like there was a lot of strength coming from that.
Speaker 4:Thank you. Thank you. That, that means a lot to me to hear.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, no, they were wonderful characters and they're some of my favorite that you've ever written. Um, and on that note, um, as you said, steel Stryker is told in two different perspectives, um, from talent and from read, um, I was wondering how do you keep different character voices separate and how do you make them sound unique?
Speaker 4:That's a great question and actually really difficult to do. I still find it very hard. Um, I remember feeling challenged by it with legend, uh, and, and it's still hard. And usually in my first draft, the voices tend to sound similar just because I'm like, I'm trying to, you know, like quantity over quality. I'm just like trying to get through the book. Um, and, but then I go back and I feel like when, when I can get a chance to slow down and really flesh out my characters, um, I get a chance to see how they differ, differ from each other. And I think that's probably one of the most important things about writing first person. Um, different point of views is you want to pick two characters who are very fundamentally different, um, and they can offer different points of view and they can sound different in that sense. So, you know, telling and writer from opposite sides of the tracks, they are from opposite sides of a war. And, and, and, and the K in the very specific case of sky hunter and steel Stryker, they are also from different cultures. So they have different languages that they speak. And, um, it all appears as English on the page, but, but read struggles, you know, with how he should be phrasing things, you know, so that the other people in Mara can understand him, or if he's not understanding like a custom, uh, from the other side and that kind of that hesitation, his speech is a little bit more formal than talents because of that. It's a little bit more hesitant. And, and so I was, I was constantly looking for like these little moments that, of their personalities that I could pull out into, into something that you could see on the page as like a difference in their, their addiction or the way they think. Um, so, uh, it was that along with what he had experienced in the Federation, having been a soldier in the Federation as a boy soldier who had witnessed and been a part of terrible things that the Federation has done, um, what that does to a psyche as opposed to talent, who, um, has always been fighting from the outside and then now suddenly finds herself on the inside in steel Stryker. So it was, it was trying to find a lot of these little moments to pull from them, like differences in their personalities differences in the way they react to the world around them that helps differentiate their voices, but it's a very slow process. And it was definitely like every, every revision that I wrote, you know, that got refined a little bit more, but it, it took a long time. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I definitely think you were successful. It came across, that came across a very different character. So I think it worked. And then on that note, um, one thing I love about talent's character is that she communicates through sign language rather than vocalizing. Um, and I imagine that there is definitely a level of sensitivity and awareness you have to have for your readers, um, who relate to this aspect of her character. So I want to know how you approached writing talent while keeping your audience in mind.
Speaker 4:Yes, that's a great question. I think with talent and, um, her sign language, uh, and the fact that she doesn't speak, I, I had always envisioned her walking into my head fully formed as a character who communicated, um, through sign language and not by her voice. And a lot of it came from the world building of this place. Um, the land of Mara and the Federation is a place where monsters roam the earth. So, um, they have incredible hearings, so they can find you from like a mile away. They can hear human voices really, really well. Um, this is they're engineered by the Federation, and this is how the Federation has actually conquered most of this planet. So, um, so Mara soldiers, um, are taught from a very early age, how to communicate without their voices on the war front. And so with developing talent, I knew that I wanted this to be her strength. This was her, um, unique talents that she had that set her apart from her fellow warriors in that she, she grew up, um, learning how to speak, sign language, um, learning how to use sign language, learning how to be, um, stealthy on the war front. Like this was something that she immediately had in common with her fellow soldiers. And she picked it up faster than pretty much anyone else. I knew that this was her strength. The other side of her that I wanted to highlight was that she, uh, is an immigrant to Mara. She is originally from one of the countries that had fallen, um, to the Federation and she and her mother had fled into the, uh, the boundaries of Mara, um, when she was very small. So there was a part of that, that mirrored, how I felt the first year that I spent in America. Um, I don't really remember what my personality was like when I was in China, but I w I w I was apparently, you know, a little bit different. And, and I just had this memory of coming to America and, and not understanding the language and, and being fairly quiet for that first year and spending most of that time, just observing and learning. And, and a lot of that went into talent's characterization because she, um, she is from another country. She is, um, loyal Tamara. Um, but Mara itself does not necessarily give her the respect that she deserves, because she's an outsider. And, and I, and I think a part of that got channeled into her, her characterizations as well. Um, I, I wanted, I wanted this to be a part of her that was complex and real, and, um, and a show of her own strength and a show of how she sees the world and how she observes everything around her. Um, so, uh, a lot of that went into her characterization, um, a lot of care and thoughts. Uh, I think that she, she is somebody that I wish I could be more like, you know, I think that she has this quiet sense of observation and understanding. Um, and, and, and the fact that she's surrounded by a crew that, um, that understands her and gets her. Uh, there's, there's something very comforting. I find, uh, about that.
Speaker 2:Sure. I'm really curious, Marie, because, you know, as we've talked about, we have this main character who speaks only through sign language, and we also have a number of characters from different countries who all speak different languages and don't all necessarily understand each other. And there's, I mean, you're really playing with a lot of different ideas of communication and how can people communicate when we not speak the same language. And obviously there's some big thematic things we could dig into there, but on a craft level, I mean, it just seems like you are setting yourself up for some really unique challenges here. Did you ever think to yourself like, huh, why am I doing this? Why do I have to have so many different languages and ways of communicating between these characters? Like, did you ever regret that decision?
Speaker 4:Oh, many times. Yes. I remember like one of the first drafts, my editor and I were talking this through and she's like, and I remember at some point she's like, you don't have to do this. You know, you're probably right. And I sat there and I was like, I just can't, I can't, it's got to be this way because I, it took me a while to realize, and this kind of segues back into your question about talent and her use of silence and that, and it was, I realized that one of the big overarching themes of the series was communication and, um, breakdowns and communication that happened when we have, um, barriers of language, barriers of borders, um, what that can do to, to break down, you know, trust any one another. Um, and that sort of thing. So a lot of it was, was about communication. And I was like, oh, I guess I have to do it. So I just kind of knew that it had to be in there. And it was really, it was, it was a trip to, to wrestle with so many different characters who spoke different things. And there were times where they're like in, you know, in the Federation, I'm like, oh, wait, nobody understands what anyone's saying here. Um, quick, I need one of them to become a translator, but go back and rewrite one of the characters, Jaren, who, who's probably one of my favorite characters. Like, I'm like, okay, you worked as a translator, you actually understand both sides. There was a lot of that kind of thing happening, like lots of shifting of, of what characters could speak and what they couldn't speak and who could understand what, and it, yeah, there was like five different languages happening. So it was, yeah, it's not, I don't think I'm going to do it again.
Speaker 2:Well, I wouldn't say as a reader, I loved it because it felt so authentic and, and really does. I mean, you can really get that theme of, of the importance of communication coming through. As a writer, I spent the books thinking, oh, Marie, why would you just do this?
Speaker 4:Oh, I don't know why we do anything to ourselves. I'm like a brain. I was actually going to say the same thing, risk that, um, I feel like the
Speaker 3:Different languages while it's very hard, it adds a richness to the world building. Um, and one of the things I really love about your books, Marie is the world building is amazing. It's very, um, it's very immersive and tangible, and you include a lot of real life science and technology and politics into your worlds, which definitely appeals to Raven cloth like me. So I just want to know, or can you talk about your worlds building process a little, like, does it all just come to you? How much do you have to research? Stuff like that?
Speaker 4:Yeah, sure. Um, it's very chaotic. I have a tendency to world build about half roughly half of the world before I start first drafting it because I've realized in the past that no matter how much will go, they, I do that first draft is really where I test the world, um, and realize it and poke holes in it and realize what I wanted to put in and didn't put in. So the other, the second half of it happens basically as I'm drafting in that first draft. So the first, my first stressor like incomprehensible because the world and the beginning of the book will be different from the world and the end of the book. And, and then I basically call that like drafts zero, because I can't even send to my editor because it makes no sense. Um, and that's, that's my time when I'm figuring the world out. And when I'm asking myself questions, um, with sky hunter in particular, usually it starts off with like the earliest forms of world winning for me, usually start off with some article I read or some picture that I saw. And in this case, I read this really fascinating non-fiction that I would highly recommend it's called fallen glory, the lives and deaths of history's greatest buildings. And it was recommended to me by Rashani chalk. She actually, and she had talked about on her Instagram and she has like some of the best book wrecks out there. And I read it and it was it's about all of these huge, huge, massive, famous ancient buildings that existed. And some of them not so ancient, um, you know, it kind of goes from like 5,000 years ago to almost present day. Um, and how, you know, we had things like the, the like Babylon, you know, and the library of Alexandria and, and these countless palaces that were built by ancient Kings. And they all thought that they were going to be immortal and this was like their pillar to immortality and like the tower of Babel, that kind of thing. And then they just kind of disappeared into the sands of time. And I found that so evocative and so eerie. And so, um, ripe for thinking about with our civilization, where I was like, you know, 5,000 years is so long that I can't even comprehend it sometimes. And where will we be? You know, 5,000 years from now? Cause 5,000 years ago was a very, very different world. And another 5,000 years, I'm like, will we be here? Will people just be going through the ruins of like, I dunno, the library of Congress is Twitter library, what will people make of us? So, um, so that was the, my first spark for the world. And then I will kind of start writing on a little document. I have like a little spreadsheet that I kind of fill out in the beginning where it's like, what are the countries? What is the weather? Is this set on a completely different plan? Or is this set on hours? Uh, what is the economy? What is the, you know, and so on and so forth. And then as I developed characters, their characteristics will also inform how I choose to structure the world building, you know, um, I knew early on that I wanted some kind of monster in this story. And I think the earliest version of sky hunter was that the world had been completely destroyed. It was just overrun with monsters. And there was like a few, like a few bands of people, very like very walking dead. Um, and, and, and that was the original world, but then it started the civilization that started getting a little bit more organized in the head. And I thought, oh, well, I want talent to have this found family in this crew of elite warriors. Well, what are they defending? And then slowly, you know, I started coming up with the idea of like, oh, well maybe it's this, maybe the monsters are actually controlled by something. Maybe they're controlled by a country. Maybe they're controlled by, you know, a more organized entity. And then the Federation came into being, and then, so, so the world kind of slowly Rue out of bits and pieces of things that I'm thinking about, but also bits and pieces of the characters I was creating into what it ended up being. And a lot of it was just asking myself questions, just lots of like, well, why this, or what if this, or what if that, or, and until I get to a point where it feels like, you know, like a more tangible world, um, it's a very, very long like layering process. And I, and like, even when I'm like two or three rounds into revisions, I'm still, you know, figuring that those little bits out. And, and I don't know, how do you do at Marissa cause your worlds are so, so evocative and lush and, and full. Um, and I'm curious what your process is like,
Speaker 2:Thank you. Well, I'm laughing because honestly my process sounds exactly like your process, very messy, very kind of obscure at first. And like, I've got this little pinpoint of light on this idea. And then as I'm writing and writing and revising and editing that light slowly gets bigger until I can see a little bit more and now I can see a little bit more. Um, but it does not happen quickly.
Speaker 4:Any drafts. That's fascinating. I love that analogy of the pinprick of light. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We're all building is like my nemesis. Sometimes I feel and people, I get lots of compliments in my world building, so I guess I'm doing okay. But I always feel like it's one of my weaknesses. Like I feel like I have to work really hard on it.
Speaker 4:I feel the exact same way about my world building, but, but I would never be able to tell that from your books We're doing okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's funny.
Speaker 3:I have to say, that's encouraging to hear you guys talk about how, um, you feel like world-building is one of your weaknesses when you're world building is what like I aspire to achieve in my writing. So it's good to hear
Speaker 2:High five Marie.
Speaker 3:Um, I want to change directions completely, um, and ask real quick about a different book of yours, Marie. Um, my favorite book that I've read this year, and it's actually one of my favorite books of all time now is the kingdom of back written by you, you mentioned, or I can't remember if you mentioned it in this podcast or if I just read it somewhere, but you said that that was one of your first attempts to publish a book and it didn't work out, um, years ago when you first tried it and then it was published last year. Um, I want to maybe hear your thoughts on the process of revisiting a book or maybe advice you have to writers that are getting the not now answer.
Speaker 4:That is such a good question. And yes, that is absolutely true. Um, so back when I was talking about how I, you know, once I went into video games, I got my inspiration back for writing, and then I wrote a fourth manuscript that I got, uh, my agent Kristin with, but, and we shopped it, but nobody took it. And then I, while that was getting rejected, I wrote legend. So that fourth book was the kingdom of back. And at the time, um, I, I was absolutely, I've always been a Mozart fan. So I, I was absolutely in love with that book. Um, and it was the first manuscript that I wrote where after we got rejected, I felt like, yes, that my writing was still a little bit uneven, but I think it was getting rejected more for the fact that it was a difficult book to place in the market and not as much for the writing itself. And, and, and it was kind of a shift in the way that I saw my own writing. Not that I thought it was good enough for publication yet because I went back through, I was like, oh God, this needs revision. Um, so the, so the one that actually came out, it's quite a bit different. Um, but I remember at the time, uh, this was, this must have been 2009, I want to say. And it, historical fiction was just not a thing. You know, like Hamilton hadn't happened yet. Like it wasn't, it just, nobody cared about historical fiction. And, um, and I remember my agents, uh, shopping it around and she's like, Marie, all of the answers are the adult publishers don't know, think that is why the, why publishers think as adult and nobody knows where this would fit and it's historical fiction. And I love it, but I really don't think anyone knows how to market this book. And, um, and so, so it was, it was getting rejected for, I think, a slightly different reason than the first couple of manuscripts that I wrote. And so we both kind of just agreed that, you know, maybe this is like a strange little outlier book, but, and I remember at the time Chris, and, and saying something along the lines of like, you know, it's maybe it's time to shelve it for now, but maybe it's something we can revisit later. And so I remember just shelving it, um, along with the rest of my old manuscripts, but as the years went on, I found myself always just kind of thinking about that book. And I think that's what made it different was that my brain never really put it to rest. Um, I was still in love with the story and still kind of enchanted with, um, the story of like Nannerl Mozart and, and Wolfgang Mozart, and just found myself tinkering with the book every now and then, like my agent. And I now have this choke of just like how many different versions of this book she has in her folder on her computer. Because every couple of years I would send her like a slightly tweaked version and then she's like, okay, great. And then something would come up, you know, in my schedule, wouldn't finish. She's like, are you still working on, you know, can, are we gonna try this year? And I was like, no, I'm too busy. I'm traveling camp maybe next year. And so it's, that just kind of went on for like 10 years. And finally, I think there was just like this perfect lineup of, um, schedule and like my book releases and then one day Chris and I were like, you know, I think people would buy a historical fantasy right now. This was like 2019 now. So, you know, historical fiction was doing better. Hamilton had come out, everyone was interested in history. Um, and then we were like, maybe we should revisit the canine of back. So I remember going back and reopening kind of like dusting off the metaphorically, dusting off my digital file and reading through it. And the writing was, was definitely rougher than I liked. But at the same time, I was like, I love this book. I love this book. And it, so it's very much like a book of my heart. It's very, very different from my other books, but it was just that it was just something you know about it. And I think that for aspiring writers out there, you know, if you love, love, love your manuscripts. Sometimes, sometimes it's just, the market is not right for it. And it has nothing to do with the quality of your book or your idea. Sometimes it's just, you're just waiting for the right moment. And so, you know, putting your book away doesn't have to mean that it's forever. It doesn't mean that you failed. It doesn't mean that, you know, you can never revisit it again. Um, sometimes you can submit it again and, and it ended up selling to, to my, my current editor. I've been working with the same editor for 10 years and I absolutely adore her Jen Besser. And she had actually, um, been one of the editors back in 2009 who had liked the book, but couldn't get it passed editorial board at the time. So, so, you know, 10 years later we gave it to her again and she loved it and we sold it. So, um, yeah, very long journey for my little book. So it means a lot to me that you liked it. Okay.
Speaker 3:Um, it's such a good book. So if anyone listening, hasn't read that book yet, read sky hunter and Stryker first, but then when the kingdom of back
Speaker 2:That was like the most encouraging story too, and such a great reminder that like, if you love a book, don't give up on it. You just never know.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Are you both ready for our happy writer bonus round? Yes. Okay. So I will ask the questions this time, um, and I will let both of you answer, um, should we do Marie can answer first and then Alison does it matter?
Speaker 3:That sounds good to me.
Speaker 2:Sure. Sounds good. Okay. Tea or coffee? Tea.
Speaker 3:Um, I don't drink either. So none of the above.
Speaker 2:What on earth do you drink? Are there other beverages?
Speaker 3:Um, I'm a diet Coke fiend. That's what I dream.
Speaker 2:Oh, nice water or pantser
Speaker 4:Water or what
Speaker 2:Plotter or pantser. Oh,
Speaker 4:I'm still on beverages. I am a pantser for showroom.
Speaker 3:I'm a cancer as well.
Speaker 2:I'm surprised Marie. I totally thought you were going to be a plotter. Really.
Speaker 4:I really wish I was a platter. I try very hard, but I'd never worked,
Speaker 2:Um, music or silence
Speaker 4:Music
Speaker 3:Music as well.
Speaker 2:Yay. Writing in the morning or writing at night,
Speaker 4:Definitely writing in the morning.
Speaker 3:I'm a morning person as well
Speaker 2:To when's my goodness. No striker or sky hunter.
Speaker 4:Ooh, Stryker, Stryker.
Speaker 3:Um, I'm going to say sky hunter. Cause I like the idea of wings. That seems pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Alison, I would definitely go sky hunter as well.
Speaker 4:I could get the wings without like the process of getting the wings For three months. So I don't have to.
Speaker 2:What is your favorite writing snack?
Speaker 4:Flaming hot Cheetos. Oh,
Speaker 3:Um, I don't really have a writing snack, so none for me, I guess,
Speaker 2:Marie, how do you keep the Cheeto dust from getting all over your keyboard?
Speaker 4:Oh, the key. Oh, on my keyboard. I don't know all my fingers. I use chopsticks. That is the key for eating. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's like so simple. And so you, huh? Okay. I feel like I've learned way too many
Speaker 4:Of these.
Speaker 2:What is one small thing that brings you a lot of joy?
Speaker 4:Hmm. A small thing. Um, I guess my, my kid is pretty small. He's he's two and a half. He takes up. I mean, he, he's a big part of, of my life, but he's physically quite small.
Speaker 3:Um, well this is gonna sound basic and cliche, but just sitting down with a good book and reading makes me very, very happy.
Speaker 4:I love that. So, so much. That is not perfect.
Speaker 2:And so fitting for this podcast, everyone listening is nodding their heads on that note. What book makes you happy?
Speaker 4:Oh gosh. Um, the red wall series, that was one of my formative middles middle school series that got me into fantasy.
Speaker 3:Um, for me it's a popular answer, but six of crows by Libra do go read
Speaker 4:That one a lot choice. Yes.
Speaker 2:What are you working on next?
Speaker 4:Ooh, I can't, I, I can't talk about mine yet, but I'm super excited to someday. Um, it's very different. It's very different from sky hunter and it made me really, really happy to write. This is like probably the only time in my life that I've ever really enjoyed writing a first draft. I wish I could say more than that. What about, what about you, Marissa? What are you working on next?
Speaker 2:Um, well, okay, so I've got gilded coming out in November, so I'm mostly working on the sequel to gilded is its primary focus. Um, and now I've got this silly thing that I'm writing for the sender ten-year anniversary that I haven't actually started writing yet, but I've been brainstorming and outlining it and I'm like so excited. Oh, that is so cool. Um, Alison, I don't know. Do you want to, do you have an answer? What are you working on? I know you're getting your degree, but you have like a writing project you want to talk about or anything.
Speaker 3:Um, yes. Well, the next thing for me is trying to finish my undergrad, but
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh, just that just going, you know,
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, no, I'm juggling like two different writing projects or I'm trying to on top of school, it's not really working for me, but hopefully one of these days I can sit down and write one or both of them. So
Speaker 4:I know that you're doing amazing at juggling it. And I really hope you get a chance to write that, to finish them. Both.
Speaker 2:It is, it is hard. I remember being in college and trying to also work on my like fun creative side projects and it is not easy. So kudos for anything that you can get done.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Lastly, where can people find you?
Speaker 4:Um, I'm mostly on Instagram these days at Marie Lu the writer, um, and every now and then I'll pop in on Twitter, um, to answer my notifications, but that's usually where I haunt.
Speaker 3:Um, I don't know why anyone would want to find me.
Speaker 2:'cause you sound awesome. We all want to be friends.
Speaker 3:Thank you. I like friends. So if you want to follow me, um, I'm on Instagram, tick talk, talking Twitter under the, uh, handle the BYU fangirl Bya, like be abbreviation of Broadway. So,
Speaker 4:Oh, I love it. You on Instagram, that was not meant to sound creepy, but I will find
Speaker 3:Sound creepy. It's cool.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Alison Marie, thank you both so much for joining me today. This was super fun.
Speaker 4:This was so fun. Thank you so much, Alison, for your wonderful questions and thank you Marissa, for having me on your amazing podcast. And I'm so excited for gilded.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I'm so excited for this pandemic to go away so we can hang out in person again. I miss everybody readers. Be sure to check out steel Stryker. Um, it is available now of course, we always encourage you to support your local indie bookstore. If you can, if you don't have a local indie, you can check out our affiliate store. That's it. bookshop.org/shop/marissa Meyer coming up next week, I will be talking to none other than someone Shane Nani about his new collection of fairy tale, inspired, short stories, beast and beauty. Please be sure to subscribe and follow us on Instagram at Marissa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy, stay cozy and whatever life throws at you today. I do hope that now you're feeling a little bit happier.
Speaker 1:[inaudible].
