A Gender-Bent Sleeping Beauty Retelling - Leslie Vedder - The Bone Spindle

Marissa chats with Leslie Vedder about her debut fairy-tale-inspired fantasy - THE BONE SPINDLE - as well as crafting adventurous puzzles and booby traps in the written word, when we're so used to seeing them in a visual format; using backstory to develop realistic character flaws that will create lots of tension and drive the plot forward; deciding what to keep and what to change in order to make your fairy tale retelling feel new and interesting in the genre; balancing a mix of romantic and platonic relationships in one book, and how to keep each storyline unique from the others; and lots of love for our mutual fanfiction backgrounds and how - for many of us - writing fanfic helped to build a foundation of joy in the writing process.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:12

Hello, and welcome to the happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers, more books to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I am your host, Marisa Meyer. Thank you for joining me. What is making me happy this week? Uh, so a couple of months ago I was on a podcast and one of the questions that was asked was what is my favorite smell or scent? Um, and my answer is that I really love smell of almond extract. Um, and I had mentioned in that interview that there was like some soap. I don't know what the brand is, but occasionally it'll like be in a restaurant bathrooms. And I'm just like, I love this smell so much. I wish that I knew what it was. Um, well, thanks to Bethany finger, who has been a previous guest on this podcast and she is the host of the prince Kai fan pod. She emailed to let me know about ADA's almond cherry shampoo and conditioner. And I got myself some and it smells so good. And every time I washed my hair in a, I feel super, super pampered and special, and it is truly like my favorite smell in the world. Uh, so thank you, Bethany. I love it.<laugh>, it's a small, silly thing, but those are sometimes the biggest things. Of course, I am also so happy to be talking to today's. She holds a BA in creative writing from San Francisco state university and her debut Y novel, the bone spindle came out earlier this month. Please. Welcome Leslie better.

Speaker 2: 1:59

Hi, I'm so excited. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 2:02

I am so delighted to have you and get to talk about fairy tales. This really super, super fun fairytale retelling. I can't wait to tell people about it.

Speaker 2: 2:14

Oh, thank

Speaker 1: 2:14

You. Um, just to start, congratulations. I know the book has been out for a little while now. How's it going? How are you feeling?

Speaker 2: 2:24

It's been, so this was my debut book, so I had no idea what to expect and I'm kind of shy and kind of an introvert. So I don't think I've ever talked to so many people online ever.

Speaker 1: 2:36

<laugh>. Yeah. Did you, so, I mean, I know COVID is still a thing. Were you able to do like any in-person events or has it been all virtual? I was

Speaker 2: 2:45

Able to do an in person launch with another author who debuted on the same day, actually Meg long and cold the night fast, the wolves. So that was amazing to have another author there to chat with.

Speaker 1: 2:56

Yeah, no, that is, that really takes the pressure off.

Speaker 2: 3:00

It does. And she was amazing and like was able to lead the conversation and like throw me a rope when I got in trouble. So<laugh>

Speaker 1: 3:06

Nice. Um, so to get started, one question that I start with for every interview is I would like to know your author origin story. How do did you get here to having your debut novel? Just published?

Speaker 2: 3:24

Ooh, that's a really good one. Um, it's a little cliche, but I was definitely one of those kids that always wanted to be a writer. I loved books so much as a kid. My dad would actually read aloud to my sister and I every night before bed. And I remember loving like the Hobbit and the Lord of the rings and fantasy just carried me away. And honestly, what I fell in love with the most was characters. And so long after I had finished a book or was supposed to be in bed and sleeping, I would just lie there, dreaming up more adventures for these characters to go on. Like I never wanted a attend. So you can imagine, imagine how excited I was when I found out that I was not the only person who did this. And there was this thing called fan fiction,<laugh> that existed where people had gone on and all my favorite characters had adventured on. And in fact, changed genres and fallen in love with all sorts of people. And so I would say fan fiction was sort of this wonderful moment for me, for fun out everything that writing and characters could be. And so I was a fan fiction writer and, um, actually to take an aside here, I, I met my wife in high school and we used to write fan fiction to each other all the way back in

Speaker 1: 4:33

High school<laugh>. And so

Speaker 2: 4:37

When I, uh, started writing my own original work, I wanted take all that love I had for fan fiction and characters and put it into my original stories too. And so like many authors, I have many projects that I didn't finish many half done, many projects that didn't go the distance, but sort of things finally came together for the bone spend. And I could just feel that I had the characters of my heart. I, and like the story I really wanted to tell. And that is ultimately the book that, uh, I debuted with.

Speaker 1: 5:07

I relate so much to everything you just said. I feel like we are clearly kindred spirits<laugh> I also was like really into the fantasy and used to lie awake, dreaming about things. And I also wrote fan fiction and yeah, we could be best friends. What fan fiction did you write? What fandom?

Speaker 2: 5:27

You know, I was an anime fan, like hugely in high school. So definitely like all the big ones, like Siler moon, gun, him wing NATO. And then like on the side, there was definitely like some X Zena and some Voyager going on too.<laugh> I,

Speaker 1: 5:41

Leslie, I was also into anime. Sailor moon was my jam. We could have been running in the same circles and we don't even know.

Speaker 2: 5:50

Right. I do think about that, that like some of the fan fiction online, like, because everyone has a different name might be some author I know now. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:59

Right. No, it's, I mean, doing these interviews and asking this question, there are so many published professional writers who got their start in fan fiction. And I think for a long time, people were a little embarrassed to say that, but now it's become so common that we're all just like, oh, you wrote fan fiction. Me too. Right. Um, and I, I think that's really encouraging for aspiring writers to hear like, it is absolutely a stepping stone to becoming a professional writer. If you choose it to

Speaker 2: 6:29

Be, oh yeah. It taught me so much. I mean, especially for a while there, I really did think of fan fiction writing as totally separate from like, I don't know, serious writing, but honestly, when I thought that way, I found that my serious writing was like, quite honestly, sometimes it even bored me. Mm-hmm<affirmative> like, that was bringing too much like weight to it. And I was like, no, all the things that I love about fan fiction should totally be the things that I bring to the writing I'm doing for else. They're not separate at all. So like definitely you, you've got to learn how to do some of the, the world building and the characters, you know, when you do original work. But I think fan fiction is a great way to learn how to, how to write what you love.

Speaker 1: 7:10

Yeah, no, you're so right. And I, that's so funny, I just had a, an Instagram live this morning and we were talking about, um, like bringing joy to writing and finding joy in your writing. And obviously the happy writer podcast, like this is part of my brand. Like I just think it's really important for people to find joy in this thing that we do and that we spend so much of our time doing. And I think that's a really important part of the process, at least for me. Um, and I had never really made the connection to fan fiction, but just listening to you talk about it, it's like, you're right. Like I got my start writing these stories that was for pure joy. Like there was no pressure at all. It was just something that I love to do. And now I'm wondering how much like that has now carried into why I just find right. To be so much fun even to this day.

Speaker 2: 8:02

Oh, I do. I love that.

Speaker 1: 8:05

How do you think that fan fiction and writing fan fiction impacted not just like your, your style and your voice and your craft, but like a career level or like how you face writing professionally, do you think that writing fan fiction, um, had much to do with that?

Speaker 2: 8:29

You know, I think that like all writing is writing that teaches you something. And so, you know, whether you sort of start in fan fiction or short stories, or, you know, even just trying out that, that first book, I feel like there's some things you can only learn by doing. And so a lot of the fan fiction that I wrote, even though it was much, like you said, just purely for joy. I think taught me about like scene and pacing and dialogue. And so I think when I did start those original projects, I sort of had this foot in the door of figuring out what kind of writing, you know, was worked for action scenes. And what kind of writing worked for the characters

Speaker 1: 9:08

I love. Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. I'm, I'm like, so on board with everything you're saying. Um, and I re like, I distinctly remember when I first started, um, querying agents with my first novel cider. I remember being worried that like my writing style would seem amateurish compared to other writers. Um, because I did come from this fan fiction background and I knew that, so that had influenced my voice so much. Um, but now in hindsight, I think that it was nothing but a, a pro, um, and that readers like clearly really responded to that.

Speaker 2: 9:46

I mean, absolutely because some of the things that I love about fan fiction are some of the, the voice that that can bring and the kind of characters that bring in. So I love seeing that in books too,

Speaker 1: 9:56

So yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yay. Fan fiction. Um, okay. I feel like we could talk about that all day, but let's not.<laugh>, let's talk about your debut novel, the bone spindle. Would you please tell listeners what is this book about?

Speaker 2: 10:12

Absolutely. The bone spindle is a gender flight, sleeping beauty meets Indiana Jones, starring two girl treasure hunters, there's fee a bookish, no nonsense historian who does not believe in destiny or true love. And Shane, a acts wielding mercenary, who does what she wants and makes enemies everywhere. She goes, uh, the two of them team up for one job, which ends up becoming much more than they bargain for when he pricks her finger on the bone spindle. And they awaken the spirit of the sleeping prince Brit rose. Now she's stuck with him until they can break the curse on his kingdom.

Speaker 1: 10:50

Okay. So when your publicist sent the pitch for your book, um, and the, uh, the subject was like, you know, podcast request, uh, gender swapped, sleeping, beauty meets Indiana Jones. And like, I could not say yes, fast enough.<laugh> reply. Yes. I would like to read this book and have this book on my podcast. Um, I loved it. You've hit like so many things that I just find super, super fun as a reader. Um, so I try to avoid asking the question, where did the idea come from? Cuz that's like such a cliche thing, um, for people to ask writers, but every now and then there's a book that I sort of wish I had had the idea, and this is one of those. So I wanna know where did the idea for this come from?

Speaker 2: 11:47

Yes. So there are really two main inspirations for this book. And one is I do love fairytale retailings and like fairytale. Mashups are some of my favorite and I've always really loved sleeping beauty, but rather than like sleeping beauty for herself, I think I've always just loved the vibes of sleeping beauty. Like the forest of thorns, the spin, the single drop of blood. There was just something very magical and very exciting to me about that sort of backdrop. And I was thinking about like Briar rose being asleep for a hundred years and maybe actually sleeping that entire time and how that would sort of make him heroic, you know, and just something that was lost to history. And that is when I definitely had this idea of treasure hunters and Indiana Jones. And so I am very much a fan of like Indiana owns the mummy tomb robber. And so I also think of this book as my love letter to like those big action adventure movies that are almost like one long chase scene from start to finish. And so the, these two ideas like colliding was really where the bone spindle was born.<laugh>

Speaker 1: 12:50

Yes, I loved it. I loved that. You know, you open with this very kind of fairytale que prologue, which feels a little bit like, oh, okay, it's a sleeping beauty. We're telling, I've heard this story before, but then you launch us immediately into this, like we're going treasure hunting into this tube. Or I can't remember exactly what it was in those opening chapter, but, and suddenly there's booby traps and there's magic and I'm like, I am so in for it. This is the coolest thing I've read in a long time.<laugh> so how many times did you watch Indiana Jones or national treasure or like some of those, uh, action adventure movies to like get into the vibe of this book? Like, is that something that you were watching while you were writing this to try to draw from, to really capture that vibe of those movies? Or did you just have it in your head because you were already such a fan?

Speaker 2: 13:51

You know, I was already such a fan that I, I think I did rewatch like the mummy movies, because I really love the love story and those ones too. Mm-hmm

Speaker 1: 13:58

<affirmative> but, um, that's a librarian. Yes,

Speaker 2: 14:00

Exactly. So I did, but I, I really just had these, uh, movies, like sort of deep down in me somewhere, you know, like definitely if that Indiana Jones theme plays like, wow, there's some musical cue in me somewhere that brings like that whole movie rushing up from just a few notes of that song. And so I think I really wanted to, to capture that with these, these girl treasure hunters and give them that chance to have like that, that fierceness, and also have that fun that I remember from those movies. Mm-hmm

Speaker 1: 14:30

<affirmative> now I love it. And I do think that the genre is missing out on more female treasure hunters. Um, so I really enjoyed seeing that. Um, I have myself kind of like one of my secret side projects that I haven't actually sold yet. Um, also has kind of Indiana Jones vibes to it. And I was really surprised when I started working on this project, how hard it is coming up with, uh, puzzles and booby traps. Yes. And things that don't feel like we've already seen it a million times. Um, how did you go about doing that? Cause I felt like you tackled really well.

Speaker 2: 15:11

Absolutely. Actually that was one of the harder things. When I first started writing this book, I thought that the traps would be much easier, uh, to write because I had seen all these movies, but I quickly realized that like writing a trap is so much different one seeing one and having a visual medium to work with. And so actually one of the things that I did when I was thinking about the traps in the bone spend was I positioned fee more like a detective. I really thought about the way I love how detectives can work in books. And so each trap I took on as sort of a mini puzzle that would have like red herrings and misdirects and fee would be like a detective of ancient ruins with all of these different like foreshadowed elements and like get to the end and solve it the way detective does.

Speaker 1: 15:57

I love that approach. Was it, I mean, talk me through a little bit more because I agree that so many of these, these booby trap type elements, um, we are familiar with because of the movie media, uh, and it is hard capturing that in the written word. Like, so once you had kind of established, uh, what the actual puzzle was gonna be and what were some of the clues that fee was gonna come across and how she was gonna solve it? Um, like how did you then go about actually putting that out on the page if, if that's not too confusing of a question to

Speaker 2: 16:36

Answer? No, definitely. Um, so one of the things about the puzzles when I was like coming up with them is, um, there's basically a scene, uh, somewhat near the beginning where they're entering into this old manner house and they're, you know, some different puzzles and one of them involves a room that has different keys. You have to choose from in statues. And one of the things that went into the writing of this, like was a moment where you're gonna have to choose the right key is I have two points of view in this book. And so there's fee who, like I said, is sort of the brain and Shane who's sort of the Braun. And so I tried to sometimes use the different point of views like Shane who's, you know, not so familiar with these traps. I went ahead and came from her point of view so that she would have kind of no idea what was going on when we went into this room and less of an idea of what might be the best way to get through this trap and kind of be a surrogate for the audience to see, you know, how fee went about solving this instead of needing to be inside of fees had the entire time, I thought might be a little difficult. And so I really enjoyed having two different points of view in this book to sort of be able to hide some information and reveal some information at different points. And I think that really helps me with keeping the traps dynamic.

Speaker 1: 17:49

Yeah, no, that's such an interesting point. Um, and I will say, even as you, you bring up that scene with the, the keys and the four statues, like I feel like I watched that scene in a movie. Like, I, I feel like I've seen it, not just Reddit. Um, so that, that must mean that you did the great job<laugh>

Speaker 2: 18:10

That makes me

Speaker 1: 18:10

So happy. Um, so let's talk about more about your two main characters fee and Shane. Um, I couldn't help feel like, as I was reading this book, if this book, if the bone spindle had come out 10 years ago, you and I would've been on all the same and panels at all of the writing conferences and the book festivals, cuz I was always getting put on the fairy tale panels and the quote strong female characters panels, um, which is like anybody wanted to talk about in 2012<laugh> but you know, I kind of say that tongue in cheek, you know, strong female characters, but at the same time you do have two wonderfully different unique and complex heroins, um, you know, kind of spearheading this story. So talk to me a little bit about where these characters came from and what was your approach to developing them?

Speaker 2: 19:11

Yeah. So one of the things I thought about right from the beginning was I knew I wanted a pair of girl partners. And so some of my favorite kinds of partners are those partners who like, you know, can't even stand each other at the beginning, knock heads a bunch. And then by the end they would die for each other mm-hmm<affirmative>. And so, you know, definitely the, the Falcon in the, into your shoulder, Jack and Daniel, if you're a Stargate fan. And so I knew I wanted them to be like, have these big rough around the edges personalities and be like total opposites. And so I would say I kind of came up with their characters at the same time and I was thinking a lot about their interactions when I came up with them. And so, you know, fee is definitely of the sort, sort of more Indiana Jones character. And that character did always have like this side of bookish, but I really wanted to take that bookish and, and push it up because I think I've always just been a book lover and whether it's like bell or, you know, the character front, the mummy, I've always loved the librarians and the bookish characters so much. And then, you know, Shane in order to be the opposite of that, I wanted her to just be able to let loose and be this character who was up unapologetically herself at every moment, just like stomping around the book and doing whatever she wanted.<laugh>

Speaker 1: 20:23

No, absolutely. And they play off of each other so well, and I really love when we can have multiple female characters in a book that are, you know, powerful and empowering characters, but for totally different reasons, you know, and, and to show that, you know, there was an era in which like the KAIST character was, that's what we think of as strong girl, strong females. Um, and then there was the Hermione era and, you know, that's a strong female character. Um, but I love when we can show that there's so many different types of strength. There's so many different ways that, you know, girls can be strong and they should all embraced and all be credited for what they are.

Speaker 2: 21:10

I do love that too. And I do love it when cuz you're right. Sometimes it feels like we get stuck in one archetype at a time<laugh> instead of being able to like have a whole mosaic of different characters with different flaws and different strengths playing off each other.

Speaker 1: 21:23

Yeah. Um, at the same time you, even though, you know, you could easily say, okay, so fee is the, the bookish, you know, kind of nerdy intellectual one and you know, Shane is the, all the Braun and the muscle, but that's totally not all that they are like, you really did develop them into characters that have lots of really interesting layers. And the more that we get to know them is the more and more authentic they become. So what was like, what were you thinking about as you were developing them to kind of, uh, stay away from these cliches that they so easily could have become?

Speaker 2: 22:01

Yeah, for me, for these two characters, it was about developing their back stories and their flaws and making sure they, they had these back stories that really made sense and made them who they are. They both have a past to very different reasons that they're leaving behind. And I think that those flaws that they have really help connect them to each other and really help the readers connect to them too.

Speaker 1: 22:24

Yeah. I mean, I think that part of character development, it's so important to be able to show flaws in a character. Um, I know like one of the, the biggest pet peeves for me is when you come across a character who just seems so annoyingly perfect.<laugh>

Speaker 2: 22:45

Yes, definitely.

Speaker 1: 22:47

And when you kind of already high touched on it a little bit, this idea that, you know, you have these kind of like three different relationships developing over the course of the story. Um, both of these girls fee and Shane have a love interest, so we've got two kind of parallel romance sub plot. Um, and I'd love to talk about that here in a second, but I think my favorite relationship was the relationship between fee and Shane. Um, and how, you know, even though it's, it's a, a friendship and a platonic relationship, I mean they do just come to care for each other so much. And I think that that's something that we need so much more of in, in literature and in young adult literature. And I just loved them. I loved seeing them together.

Speaker 2: 23:41

Oh, thank you. And I could not agree more, especially when I was a teen, like friendships were really some of the most important relationships of my life. And so I really, really enjoyed getting to center that friendship in this book.

Speaker 1: 23:55

Do you think that, so between writing romance and writing friendship, what are the similar and what are the differences? How do you go about tackling each one?

Speaker 2: 24:11

That's a good question. Um, I would say for me, like when I think of romances, I sort of think of romance like as a big push pull, you know, that like when, when feelings are developing and when doors are developing feelings for each other, you know, sometimes those feelings bring them closer together and sometimes those feelings push them further apart. And I think that's true of a friendship too, but I think with a friendship, uh, unlike with the romances, one of my favorite things is that like, even when there's a little bit of pushback and a friendship, it's okay to knock heads a lot more, you know? And so when it comes to the, the friendships becoming closer, unlike the romances, I really like the, the way that these two characters can get under each, each other's skin in the best way and sort of like drag each other into being better people<laugh> whether they want to or not,

Speaker 1: 25:02

Oh, that's a fun way to think about it. And I think that that's so realistic. I mean, if you think of just like your best friends in real life, they are the ones who drag you into being a better person. So then going back to writing romance, we've got, um, this very kind of SASY romance between Shane and red of this thief that she keeps bumping into. Um, and then we've got this more kind of dramatic fairytale based romance between fee and Briar rose, prince Briar rose. Um, and I loved both of them. I particularly loved how different these two, but relationships are. Um, my first question is obviously you're doing a, a retelling of the story of sleeping beauty. One would normally expect there to be the relationship of course, between sleeping beauty and the prince or princess or treasure hunter coming to save them. Um, but you decided to throw in this additional romance for Shane. Why, why, what was the reasoning behind that?

Speaker 2: 26:18

Yeah, I really loved the idea of having two relationships. They could sort of be foils for each other in the book the same way that the, the main girl treasure hunters are foils for each other. But, but, um, I'll also admit that in the very earliest drafts of this book, red did not have as a big of a part, but I had so much fun with her. And Shane, like red is very much like a fem fatal who, you know, swans in and out mysteriously. And she, and Shane just had this electric connection when I wrote them. And so she ended up with such a bigger part in this book, mostly because I kind of fell in love with her too.

Speaker 1: 26:56

Well, I am so glad to hear that. I also love red and I love what she does to Shane and how Shane is like, so, you know, strong and brave and courageous. And then as soon as red walks in the door, she's just like, oh, she's so dreamy.

Speaker 2: 27:10

<laugh>, it's totally one of those moments where like, it is absolutely somebody, you know, you should not fall for. And so it is totally gonna happen. You're lost.

Speaker 1: 27:19

Yeah. Tell me about writing these two different romances. Was it hard to balance them both in one book? Um, and was it difficult to like keep each of them interesting and unique in its own way or because they're such different relationships?

Speaker 2: 27:40

Yeah. So I think that making them very D and relationships was, you know, a little easier because chain and fee are just such different people that they would just fall for such different people that like the sort of skeptic, romantic vibes that fee has going on with the prince and the absolute, like, uh, as you put it, like SASY fiery relationship that Shane is doing are very, but I, I do think I did struggle balancing them for a long time. You know, there there's a lot packed into this book with all the treasure hunting and a lot of action scenes. And so sometimes I kind of had to, to crack open the manuscript and make a little space for each of them to have time with their, their significant others, with the love stories in instead of just being like partners, cracking each other up and trying to get the last word the whole time.

Speaker 1: 28:30

Yeah, no, I totally know what you're saying. And, and I agree that it can be really hard sometimes to find space for the romance when you're just like constantly you're on a quest and you're going into at tombs and you're running for your life and, you know, but I also like as a reader, I get so much joy out of those little moments where the characters, you know, were start to admit these feelings or really start to come to terms with, wow, this person is actually becoming really important to me. And they're such a, an important moment in the story and for the, the character development.

Speaker 2: 29:09

Yeah. I mean, to go back to something we were saying earlier, I do think that's, that's one of the things I love the most too. And I do think that that's one of those areas where that, that fan fiction background really does serve me and is part of it is like those feelings are sometimes something that fan fiction goes in to explore in depth and the chance to like, have I think of them as like quiet moments where characters are, you know, meeting in a softer way is just one of my absolute favorite kinds of love scenes.

Speaker 1: 29:39

Yeah. So on that note, I'd love to hear more about your conceptualization of the prince prince Briar rose, who is such an interesting character. And to my mind, I mean, he's kind of, um, he stands apart from the rest of the characters, you know, literally figuratively<laugh> in this story. There he is physically trapped away in this castle, this tower they're trying to reach him. And yet we also, you know, get these wonderful moments of his kind of like ghost-like spirit, almost haunting fee, and like following her around and just provides for a lot of wonderful moments between the two of them. How did you go about creating him and making him just so dynamic and yet so different from what we normally think of as the sleeping beauty character?

Speaker 2: 30:37

Aw, thank you. Um, yes. So one of the first questions that I sort of asked myself when I was doing a sleeping beauty retelling was, you know, how I wanted to bring in the sleeping beauty character at the prince in this case, cuz I knew for sure, I didn't want him sleeping the whole time, cuz that would make for a terrible love story<laugh> and so, uh, I really based Brier Rose A. Little more off of the, you know, a Aurora off of like the idea of a princess. And I was thinking, you know, what would it be like to sort of have this tragic figure who was destined to sleep for a hundred years and sort of lose his entire past, lose his entire family and wake up a hundred years later and be waiting to be rescued. And so I think some of the pieces that I loved bringing in the most for Briar were if you were really stuck in a tower for a hundred years, I think you would have this, this desire and this curiosity to get out there in the world and to see things and to experience things. And that was one of the, the parts of Bres I had the most fun bringing in because, uh, he's really a sweet character mm-hmm<affirmative> and he really is a dreamer too.

Speaker 1: 31:49

No, he is, he is super charming and yeah, a dreamer is a perfect way to describe him. Um, and I love how he plays off of fee who is so pragmatic and you know, you know, intelligent and like very, I'm gonna think things through and he's just like, but we're meant to be destiny<laugh>. Um, so that actually brings me around to a question because doing fairy tale, retellings myself, I get asked all the time, you know, what is the process that I go through once I've decided, okay, I'm gonna retail this particular fairytale. How do you decide what to keep from that fairytale? How do you decide what to change and how much do you change it? Um, and how do you take a story that's been told and told and retold a billion times and yet still make it feel kind of new and fresh. Um, so I get asked upset all the time and I'm gonna throw it back to you. What were the steps you went through with this retelling?

Speaker 2: 32:56

Yeah, so like I said, I really love the vibes of sleeping beauty. That was like one of the things that like, that's just the feeling of sleeping beauty and like that forest of thores. And so I think where I start with the fairytale is I think of like a few of the central things that I absolutely wanna keep. And so for me that was, you know, the sleeping prince, um, not an higher spinning wheel, but the spindle itself, the curse, you know, that forest of thorns. And so once I had these like bass pieces, I started building what made sense for the characters. So then I had like the treasure hunters and I thought about like, do I wanna have fairies in this world? And it really felt like fairies did not quite fit in this world that that was, um, a little too lighthearted for the world of the bone spend. And so I still wanted magic. And so magic became the purview of witches in this world. And so I think for me, I think of it sort of like a chain that once you have a few first links in the chain, you can just start connecting more and more of them to sort of build the world around those, those few initial concepts that you love.<affirmative>

Speaker 1: 34:01

No, I like that image of the chain. Um, and I, I know what you're saying, you kind of start with a couple of decisions, like, okay, I'm gonna change this detail. And before you know, it, that detail grows into another detail and that grows into a plot twist and that grows into a subplot and that's kind of, they just kind of build off of themselves.

Speaker 2: 34:23

I do. I absolutely feel like at some point it becomes dominoes, you know, once you have enough of them set up, they start knocking each other over.

Speaker 1: 34:30

Yeah, no, I, I love that. Um, my last question, before we move on to our bonus round, do you have other fairy tales that you think you're gonna tackle at some point?

Speaker 2: 34:42

Oh, definitely. I mean, I love fairytale retellings so much that, you know, especially love gender flip fairytale, retellings. And so some things that, again, without I suppose that I've played with is I love the Robin hood one. I know I'm like a sucker for every Robin hood story ever written. I mean, I definitely love Cinderella. I love, oh, I mean, I definitely, I'm gonna do more fairytale retellings.

Speaker 1: 35:08

I am happy to hear that. And I also am a big fan of the gender swapping. Um, I'm good friends with li McBride who's um, curses came out last year and it's a gender swap beauty in the beast and I'm like, this is just so brilliant. I love it. Um, all right. Are you ready for a bonus

Speaker 2: 35:25

Round? Definitely

Speaker 1: 35:28

Tea or coffee,

Speaker 2: 35:30

Coffee. So much

Speaker 1: 35:33

Cake or pie.

Speaker 2: 35:35

Ooh, I think cake.

Speaker 1: 35:37

What is your favorite writing snack?

Speaker 2: 35:40

I think I'm gonna go back to coffee.<laugh>

Speaker 1: 35:43

Grim brothers or Disney.

Speaker 2: 35:46

Ooh, I'm gonna pick the grim brothers.

Speaker 1: 35:49

Would you rather be a princess or a treasure hunter?

Speaker 2: 35:53

Treasure hunter

Speaker 1: 35:55

Battle acts or, or magic spells.

Speaker 2: 35:58

Oh, I want both, but I'm thinking like probably magic spells is better for me.<laugh>

Speaker 1: 36:05

What is your personal mantra?

Speaker 2: 36:10

Wow. I think this one's a little odd, but one of the, the personal mantras that I used tell myself that, you know, everything is, is good and everything is all right, is that like, you can always edit everything. Mm-hmm<affirmative>

Speaker 1: 36:28

What is the first thing that you ever wrote?

Speaker 2: 36:34

So all the way back in like second grade, I wrote a book about a princess being stolen by a dragon and I think I still have it full of crayon drawings somewhere.<laugh>

Speaker 1: 36:49

I love that. That actually sounds like a really great story. That sounds way better than the first story I wrote. What was it? Oh, I wrote one about a little girl named Rosie who falls into a Rose Bush and like meets a bunch of magical rose creatures.

Speaker 2: 37:04

Okay. But that's like actually really imaginative.

Speaker 1: 37:08

Yeah. I dunno. Oh, maybe, I guess, I guess instead of Alice Wonderland, which, you know, I feel like both of our stories, they really just like set the tone for everything that was stick up. Right.

Speaker 2: 37:19

There's definitely a theme there.

Speaker 1: 37:21

Yes. What book makes you happy?

Speaker 2: 37:26

Oh, I have two answers here. One of my all time, favorite books is dealing with dragons by Patricia D. Reed. And every time I reread that, it makes me smile. It's such a great mashup of fairy tales. Um, and then recently I had that book launched and the other book that I launched with is cold. The night fast, the wolves, and it is phenomenal. It is. And I did a rod race meets mad max, if it all took place on the ice planet of ha and it is as awesome as it sounds.

Speaker 1: 37:58

Huh? That sounds incredible. What are you working on next?

Speaker 2: 38:05

So the bone spin was a trilogy. So I am currently working on editing book two, which has more romance and more traps and more snaring for fee and Shane.

Speaker 1: 38:15

Yay. I was so excited.<laugh> lastly, where can people find you?

Speaker 2: 38:23

Um, so my website is just Leslie, better.com and it has like all my socials and everything. And if you wanna see adorable pictures of my cats, that would definitely be Instagram, which is at Leslie do better.

Speaker 1: 38:37

Awesome. Leslie, thank you so much for joining me. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. I was so nervous, but I'm sorry. You kind of cut out there.<laugh> oh, I heard I was so nervous and then nothing. Oh no. I was saying I was so nervous, but you were so great. Thank you. Oh, thank you. Oh, that's funny. I I'm like, I'm sorry. Could you compliment me again?<laugh><laugh> readers be sure to check out the bone spindle it is available. Now of course, we always encourage you to support your local indie bookstore. If you can, if you don't have a local indie, you can check out our affiliate store at bookshop.org/shop/mari. Next week, I will be talking to our very first memoir author, Nancy borer author of almost romance just in time for Valentine's day. If you're enjoying these conversations, please subscribe and follow us on Instagram at Marisa Meyer author and at happy writer podcast until next time stay healthy, stay cozy and whatever life throws at you today. I hope that now you're feeling a little bit happier.