Vampires Meet Dark Academia with Tigest Girma - Immortal Dark

Marissa chats with Tigest Girma about her debut, a YA romantic vampire novel, IMMORTAL DARK. Also discussed in this episode: struggling with the young adult/new adult/adult labels, making the change to age down a book and characters and what that entails, writing morally gray characters, crafting an extreme enemies to lovers romantic storyline, creating a found family ensemble, planning subsequent books in a trilogy (second book syndrome is a thing!), and more!

Bonus: a new book announcement from Marissa!

We Could Be Magic - https://bookshop.org/a/11756/9781250379399

Joelle Murray: https://joellemurrayart.com/

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Transcript

[00:10] Marissa: Hello and welcome to the Happy writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers more books to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I am your host, Marissa Meyer. Thank you for joining me. One thing making me extraordinarily happy this week is that by the time this episode comes out, I will finally have been able to announce a project that I have been waiting to talk about for five whole years. We are finally going to announce my next graphic novel. It is called we could be magic, and it is about a girl who desperately wants to be a princess character actor at a Ydez popular fictional theme park. But according to the people in charge, she does not fit the quote right. Look for a princess. So it's a body positive story about following your dreams and working hard and of course, falling in love. And it is one of my most favorite things that I have ever written. Story of my heart. It's a book that I wish I could go back in time and give to teenage Marissa. It's just one of those that was really, really important to me. And it is being illustrated by the amazingly talented Joelle Murray and the way that she is bringing these characters and the theme park to life. It is perfection. It is even better than I imagined. And I'm so happy. Like I said, it's been five years. I wrote this book way back in 2019, pre pandemic, if you even remember that time. And it's just taken a super long time to make its way through the publishing process, but it's been worth the wait. I love it so much. I cannot wait to share it with you. And for now, I'm just really, really happy that I at least finally get to talk about it. It's been a long time coming. I don't know if it's gonna be available for pre order when the announcement happens, but it is scheduled to come out next June, so June of 2025, so not that far away, comparatively speaking. I am also so happy to be talking to today's guest. She is an Ethiopian writer based in Melbourne, Australia with a bachelor's degree in education. Her debut novel, Immortal Dark, comes out tomorrow. Please welcome Tigest Girma.

[02:46] Tigest : Hello, everyone. I am so happy to be here with you all. Thank you for having me.

[02:50] Marissa: I am so excited to have you. Congratulations on your debut novel. How does it feel? Does it feel real yet?

[03:00] Tigest : It's starting to feel real now. It hadn't for the past twelve months while I was working on it, but now everyone's like, it's coming up next week and I'm like, oh, wait, actually is so. Yeah. Excited and nervous.

[03:12] Marissa: It's real, it's happening. And I see in our video chat here you have the book with you.

[03:18] Tigest : You have it. Musically, it's beautiful. It has a gorgeous sprayed edge. Wow. And vibes. I'm so excited for people to have this.

[03:28] Marissa: Yeah, it's beautiful. I didn't know about the sprayed edges. I just got an ebook when I read it.

[03:35] Tigest : Well, it's a nice little surprise for the people that are buying the hard back. It is gorgeous. Absolutely love it really is.

[03:43] Marissa: Now, the design is really, really cool and very dark, which matches the title. And it's a very dark story. It's very dramatic. It's a rollercoaster of a book.

[03:54] Tigest : Definitely. Definitely. Yes. It plays around with people's morality a lot and darkness. There are things to explore. Yeah, for sure.

[04:03] Marissa: No, I'm so excited to talk about it. Before we get on to talking about the book, the first thing that I love to ask all of my guests is, I'd like to hear your origin story. Did you always know you wanted to be a writer or what brought you to this point?

[04:21] Tigest : I love that question. I figured out that I wanted to be a writer when I was about 15 years old, and it happened right after I finished all of the paranormal romance books from my high school library. And I was like, I want more. And the librarian was like, we have to wait a couple weeks to get more. So I was like, this is my time to write my own. So I just pulled up my little. I think at that point I was writing in the high school library because I didn't have my own laptop, and I started writing a chapter here and there and I fell in love with the idea of creating a whole world. So immediately after that point, I was like, if I can somehow make this my career, hopefully this is what I want to do forever. And that's how it started.

[05:04] Marissa: Yeah, I love that. I have to ask because this is a vampire book. Was one of those paranormal books twilight? That how long ago? We're coming back in time here.

[05:15] Tigest : It was not Twilight. I've already seen the movie Twilight, so I was not gonna read at that point, but I was reading Vampire Academy by Mead, which just altered my brain chemistry in a way for my 16 year old self. I was like, oh, my goodness, this is the best thing I've ever devoured. And it makes sense that, you know, my first debut would be about vampires in a university setting because that book really heavily just gave me just the sense of escaping the world. I had just moved to Australia from Ethiopia at that time as well. So I was, like, just, you know, out of, you know, a fish out of water, basically. And I'm just trying to figure out how to communicate with my classmates. Everything like that and books was just my, you know, favorite way to escape. So shout out to Rochelle Mead for creating Vampire Academy. She really helped me transition out of that stage of my life. And, yeah, I always see vampires with a lot of nostalgia for me. I love them.

[06:13] Marissa: I love them, too. And I love that we're seeing this resurgence in the market because, I mean, things go in trends, you know, up and down. But I feel like there has been so many new vampire books out lately, and I've read a number of them this year, and it's really fun to see how many different takes. It's one of those. It's kind of like a retelling. Like, there's just so many different directions writers can take it. And so I like how much freedom there is, definitely.

[06:39] Tigest : I think that's what really drew me to the specific trope. I guess I was like, I want to do vampires my own way. I can play around with it. I can make them originate from Africa, and I can just make a little twist here and there. It was just fun.

[06:56] Marissa: Okay, we're going to come back to vampires, but before we move on from your origin story. So you started writing as a teenager. A chapter here, a chapter there. How many novels or manuscripts did you complete before you queried and how many before you got published?

[07:14] Tigest : Okay. Before I queried? One. Okay. I. My first novel when I was about 1817, and I looked at it, and I was like, this is great. Good job. You can finish something. That's amazing to know, but you don't know a lot about, you know, structure. Cards are art, crafts. Nothing about that. So I put that aside, and I went to online writing school, where I just basically absorbed everything I can about cropped. And then I wrote my second book, which is like an east african tournament book, fantasy book. And that sounds fun, too. With that one, I entered pitch words, which is a writing competition where you get paired up with a mentor, with an author mentor that edits, helps you edit your book. So I really felt this was the one. I had a great author to authors helping me edit this book, make it the best version it was. And then I went out to agents with that book. It got rejected. That's fine. And then I wrote. I changed basically everything except the title. So it was a second book, actually, my third book sorry. And then I went out with agents again with that one. That one got rejected. And then at that point, I was feeling very disheartened with the publishing industry. I was like, what am I doing wrong? I don't get it. And that's when, while randomly watching Twilight with my brother, the idea for immortal dark came out of nowhere, where I was like, what if vampires were black? So I just started writing that it was during lockdown, where I had nowhere else to go except to write. And that's the one that got the agent and the editor and everything else.

[08:52] Marissa: And here we are.

[08:55] Tigest : Yay.

[08:56] Marissa: I was just talking with some writers about pitch wars. Is it still happening? Because I know a lot of writers got their start doing pitch wars.

[09:04] Tigest : Yeah, I think it has been posted, I don't know, canceled or it's gonna happen maybe in the future again, but right now, I think it's on hold. But, yeah, definitely. It was so helpful to have that. Basically, I call it, like, a writing school, where you give a very already established author or someone that's already has an agent, so they know about the industry, and so hard to get someone like that. Everything about publishing, it's so, like, you know, in the shadows, you don't know what's. What's going on until you're in it. So I really just absorbed everything that my mentors told me about that, you know, about the publishing industry, what to expect. Yeah, it was very great.

[09:41] Marissa: Yeah, no, nice. And here we are. Your debut novel is out tomorrow. Would you please tell listeners a little bit more about immortal dark?

[09:53] Tigest : Yay. Immortal dark, I always say it is. Black vampires meet dark academia. So if you have those images in your head and mush them together, you will have a very good sense of what the book is about, but in detail. It is about. It takes place in a world where students have to study an arcane, very dark philosophy in order to inherit powerful vampires. Our main character, Kidan Adane, she has to attend this university. She grew up far away from it, but she's only going back because her sister has been kidnapped by one of the vampires there. And Kidan, our very dark character, she's going to bring him to justice any way she can, including acting like a student, even living with him, and learning this philosophy that teaches her all about how to bond with vampires, how to bond with darkness itself. So very dark, very fun, very enemies to lovers and murdered mystery found family. So, yeah, that's my little book.

[10:50] Marissa: You're just hitting all the high notes. Dark academia, enemies, lovers, murder mystery, everything.

[10:56] Tigest : I like is in this book. It has been a fun mashup. I think that's the power as writers we have. We can just, you know, put in whatever we like.

[11:05] Marissa: Yeah, no, it is. And it's so, I mean, I know obviously we hear young adult vampire story. Everyone's mind generally goes to Twilight. This is not twilight. This is. It's dark. It is brutal, it is violent. It is very unflinching. Look at what this vampire world could be like. And it is not quite like anything else that I personally have ever read. And I do not say that very often.

[11:32] Tigest : Oh, that's lovely to hear.

[11:35] Marissa: I was taking notes as I was reading one question that I have because it does veer quite dark in places. How did you decide? Or was it a publishing decision that this fits into young adult? Did you play with it, considering, is this more an Anne Rice adult novel or how did that come about?

[11:56] Tigest : Okay, originally when I wrote this book, it was supposed to be new adult. But as we all know, publishing doesn't know what that is. They don't recognize it as an age group. So my agent and I, we sat down and we were like, I think it's best to go out to Bowles, ya editors and adult editors and see what they say. And that was really interesting because it helped me really understand that everything's subjective because I had some Ya editors reject it, saying it is too adult. Like, I think this is a bit. Sure. And then some of the adult editors were telling me, this is Reeves a bit young. This is, you know, this is not, this is not interesting enough for our adult titles. So that left the decision up to me. I had to make a choice. I had to either age down Kidan because at that point, I think she was 21, 22. I had to make her, you know, under 19. Or I could make her even older and go full on adult. So I kind of wrestled with that back and forth. But then I went back to my favorite books when I was again a teenager. And all of these twilight vampire Academy evermore like all of these, you know, girls falling in love with immortals. They were always teenagers. So I was like, maybe. Maybe this is a teenager teenage book as well. It is a coming of age in a way. I know it leans on, you know, darker themes, but I feel like I could have handled it as a 1716 year old. So I just threw on my own past experiences and the shows I like to watch as a teenager. And I turned out fine, I like to say. And I am also a teacher, so I see what teenagers these days are reading, and they're not, you know, these type of. They're so intrigued by darker themes and exploring them in a safe place, which is fantasy. That's how, that's always how I see it. They're going to be engaging with these topics one way or another. But I always feel like fantasy gives you a safety, you know, little armor to protect yourself from that. So I was like, I think this could fit for young adults. And I just decided ultimately it's going to be for young adults. So she's going to be 19. Okay.

[14:06] Marissa: Yeah, that's so interesting. And I feel like the new adult thing, like, writers have been working so hard to get new adult off the ground because there's so many stories that do straddle that line, but for whatever reason, the publishers and the booksellers, they are just confused by it. And I'm not entirely sure what the problem is exactly.

[14:28] Tigest : I do think maybe we might see a shift in the coming years. I think there's a lot of push for it to be an actual recognized, um, age group. Yeah, hopefully. Yeah, that's my sweet spot. I like that early twenties, late late teens space. That's why.

[14:45] Marissa: Yeah, no, and I think a lot of young adult readers, as they get older, you know, they don't necessarily want to go from reading, you know, young adult with its. Its revolutions and its romance and its coming of age and then just, like, jump straight into, like, women's fiction or literary fiction where everybody's, like, having affairs and working jobs. Like, there needs to be a middle ground.

[15:08] Tigest : And I do think that's where we lose a lot of readers as well. Even me. I think at one point, I just couldn't find something that interested me after I moved out of the really young adult phase that transitioned me smoothly into adult. I was looking. I was looking. And I think that's why I probably wrote kiddam's story as a new adult, because I really want that bridge just, you know, a little way to transition into adult. But, yeah, hopefully with more books coming on the way they will be, you know, in the adult category form for.

[15:39] Marissa: Us, we are often told to write what we want to read. And it sounds like you followed that advice, and here we are.

[15:45] Tigest : Yeah, it makes sense because I wrote immortal dark when I was 22, 23. So I was like, I'm going to make you 22, 23. I was like, basically my age group.

[15:56] Marissa: Yeah.

[15:57] Tigest : Yeah.

[15:58] Marissa: Okay, so we have this. This world, this world of vampires, this dark academia setting. Tell me about how you went about constructing the hierarchy the politics, the history. Like, do you have a story bible? Did you do tons of research? Do you keep notes or do you figure it out as you go? What's your process there?

[16:24] Tigest : It's very chaotic. I would like to say I'm a planner. I really like to light myself, like to lie to myself like that, but it's not true because I really enjoy not knowing about a world and going in blind a lot. I think that's discovery. Writing is my favorite thing in the world to do. And with the world building, I always asked myself why and how. That's just those questions would always spark ideas in me. So with the initial idea for immortal dark, it was the first line that came into my mind was, what if vampires could only feed on specific human bloodlines? So these families, that's the first thing that popped in my head. And I was like, immediately, okay, why? Why? And how would that society function? So I was following those brands of questions, and immediately I was like, okay, for this society to function, if it does, you need an education system to teach the children of these families how to actually learn that they have to feed vampires when they graduate from the school. And that's how the whole university element came about because I needed a place of education. And then once I got to that university, I was like, okay, what does a university have? Oh, it has classes. It has philosophy, has art. I was like, oh, wait, let's go back to philosophy. That sounds really interesting. Maybe there's something here I could explore, you know, because vampires are always elements of darkness. And, you know, there are some pretty dark philosophies. So I was like, hmm, interesting. Maybe I can mix them into one, because what better way to teach, you know, humans about coexistence with vampires than through philosophy? I think that's the best, you know, what is it? Education there is. So I just started tinkering with that idea again and again, and I developed some classes. Maybe they could do this to bond with these vampires, but then to learn about the inner darkness as well. So it became this. It was really naturally just progressing on top of one question, building block. Building blocks, and then going to other one. And I, yeah, it just came about really naturally. I had so much fun exploring those themes of loneliness and darkness again and again until I was like, okay, maybe it's. Maybe it's enough.

[18:44] Marissa: Yeah, I have to say the chapters with the philosophy teacher where they're going over the lessons and learning these different concepts and doing these various assignments, for me, I'm like, this is my worst nightmare. These assignments are terrible. This is not a fun school to be in at all.

[19:05] Tigest : It was challenging to come up with those classes. I had to really dig deep in my education Bible, and I was like, how can I? Because it's not supposed to be easy. You're not supposed to have a great time at this school. And you know, why at the very end of the book, why it's such a challenging and, like, you know, you want to tear out your hair type of philosophy. It's all part of the process. So. Yeah, and I think my editor also mentioned at one point, she's like, there's a lot of reading books and, you know, analyzing, and, well, while that's great, is there a way we could also make some of this, these lessons more interesting? And I was like, yeah, I'm going to add maybe an activity based assignment. And I think a lot of readers have all have told me their second. The second assignment in the book is the fifth because it gets more action because we want to, you know, move away from the reading and, you know, analyzing stuff. I get it. So I also loved playing around with that and adding more of a physical component to the lessons.

[20:02] Marissa: Yeah, I agree 100%. That assignment was one of my favorite.

[20:07] Tigest : Scenes of the book.

[20:08] Marissa: The way that Kiran solves it or fixes her problem is brilliant, and it's such a great moment. And that's one of those moments that will stick with the readers for sure.

[20:19] Tigest : Yes. I was like, is it too much? But I was like, no, it's not too much. It's never too much.

[20:24] Marissa: It's not too much. 

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Marissa: I'm curious, you know, talking about that moment, which it's one of those moments that kind of straddles again that ya, but it's also dark in a lot of ways, but fun at the same time. When you decided that you were going to take this new adult that you had written to and kind of age it down, so to speak, for a young adult audience, how much did that change? I mean, was it just like tweaking character ages and dialogue and this sort of thing, or did it really impact the plot very much?

[23:38] Tigest : It was mostly about tweaking the ages and some of the character dialogue. Actually, it didn't really impact the actual theme of it that much because I was gonna stay true to this university, which is, you know, all about teaching you how to accept the worst parts of yourself. I think that's a lesson a teenager could handle. Didn't really tinker with that. But I did age down the characters and some of the dialogue and some of the scenes that were a bit more steamy. I was like, okay, let's calm down. Let's pull back.

[24:10] Marissa: Readers hear that and they're like, no, we have to. For the record, it's still pretty steamy. Like it is.

[24:20] Tigest : I always say if you are comfortable with the act of someone biting your neck, I think if you can handle that, you know, which is what vampires do, that the steamy scenes in this book you can handle as well. They're not too far off from that, you know, that's just how I see it in my head. If you can handle that. You can handle the little, you know, they're behind the curtains, sort of. They're not too steamy.

[24:44] Marissa: They're the perfect amount of steaminess. And it's fun. And that's coming back to how this book is not quite like anything else I've ever read. I mean, you play with, gosh, I was gonna say taboo. That's not really the right word, but there's some of these more romantic scenes, and these seductive scenes are still kind of walking that line of being dark to the point where as a reader, you're like, I'm getting kind of turned on here. But I also feel like I shouldn't be, you know, so funny.

[25:19] Tigest : I do think you know what it is. I think with a romance with a vampire that's just always built in, there's very. They're very attractive creatures, and they're all about being seduced by the darkness. I think even with Twilight, with Bella, she's this very innocent creature. Creature. Humanity. She's drawn to this dark vampire that, you know, needs blood to survive. And I think it's always the allure of the darkness that gets us with these kind of stories. I think because they help us accept the worst parts of ourselves. They tell us whatever you're attracted to, whatever weird stuff you're into, you know, all of your odd parts of yourself or odd parts of yourself are all accepted because, you know you are with a vampire, he can't judge you. He's the worst thing ever. You can be free with him. You can be free with him. And that's a lesson Kidan has to learn. And I think that's, like, the best way to be seduced by anything. Yeah.

[26:14] Marissa: Yeah. Okay, so you've mentioned this idea a couple of times, this very overarching theme of the book, the idea of accepting the worst parts of yourself. So, on that note, let's talk about Kiran. Because she is a character. She is merciless, she is violent. I mean, she does the sorts of things that in life, so many of us are like, man, I wish I could be that way, you know? But she just doesn't apologize for anything. And she's so great. And I will admit this is maybe one of those characters that my feelings toward her at the beginning of the book did a complete 180 by the end of the book. I mean, masterfully done. Talk about creating her character. Where did she come from? Do you relate to her? Do you admire her? Just talk about her character creation a little bit.

[27:12] Tigest : I like to say a lot of people do not like Hidan at the very beginning, for some reason. I know why. And I've heard even my family reading it, they're like, but then by the end, you're rooting for her. You're like, I understand you now. I love. I love it. That means I've done my job right. I've taken her from, you know, point a to point b. So when I was writing her, if.

[27:35] Marissa: You'Ve taken it from, like, point a to, like, point g or, like, maybe point l.

[27:42] Tigest : Actually, yeah. Yeah. She doesn't have a very big character arc change, which I like in a story. But, yeah, when I started her story, originally, she was just an ordinary teenager or, like, a early twenties girl. Like, she just wanted to. I don't know. I don't even know what her goal was. She was very bland, and I was like, I don't feel excited to write about you. I don't know why that is. So I had to put the book away and think about my favorite characters in all of the shows and books. And they were all morally great characters, like, really dark. But at the end of the day, they sort of sway you to their reasoning. So if I'm always interested in that, and I made the vampire that, but then I was bored with the main character, so I was like, I have to fix you. So to fix Kidan, I wrote the prologue first, which is where the dean of the university talks about Kidan, and she says, it's not a spoiler. It's in the first page. She says, I have to go get Kidan to join this society because she's committed murder. And she says a line like that. And I was like, that's how I found out what type of character Kidan was. That means she's a murderer already. Interesting. Thank you. Already we're intrigued, because now I can ask my favorite question, which is, why? Who did she kill? And, you know, the story, the first chapter came about really naturally, where she's in her apartment, everything's dark, she's been accused of murder, and her trial is in eight days. And already I could just feel myself really sinking into her character, just drawn to her way of thinking, the way she sees everything's pointless, everything's coming to an end, and she has nothing to lose because her sister has been taken away from her. And that's such a dangerous place to be in. And the most fun to write about. When the character has nothing to lose, you don't know what they will do. So I was just following that line of character arc. And I was like, okay, how do I change you? How do I make you actually see the lighter side of the world? Because you're in a very lost place. And then I decided to take her to a university where it was all about accepting the worst parts of yourself, because the one thing she struggles with is self forgiveness for the thing she's done, which is, you know, healing someone. And I was like, that's such a great character arc for you. It makes sense that you would need to go attend this very hidden university that teaches about morality and all that. You can explore that darkness inside yourself, and you can grow and you can change, and maybe you can find your little found family, because that's, you know, my favorite trophy. And they can teach you ways of growing and accepting those parts of yourself that you think is too evil. Because at the end of the day, what is too evil? You know? Because she thought at the very beginning that she was the worst thing ever. And then she meets, you know, Cesanios, who just challenges her on every level. And, yeah, it helped, you know, bring her character arc even better when. Whenever they were on page, I was like, yeah, this is it.

[30:40] Marissa: Yeah, no, that's. She feels like she's the worst thing ever. And, oh, wait, no, he's the worst thing ever. The other person might be the worst person. No, no. Now I've found the worst thing. I mean, it's just like, they just can't do it.

[30:56] Tigest : That's my favorite thing ever. I love that. You know what I mean? Then. Then you can feel not alone. And I think that's what the story is all about. She hates being alone. It's the worst thing that she can be. And it's all about. You can almost say the book is about companionship and friendship. At the end of the day, that's the things that could help you get over any sort of trauma you have. So, yeah, I think I can relate to her on that level that, you know, I don't like to be alone as well. I like to be around people, and I get it that you can really take you to a dark place. So, yeah. Companionship and friendship. Sure.

[31:31] Marissa: Do you think that writing this during the pandemic influenced that?

[31:35] Tigest : Oh, that's a good question. Definitely. Probably did. Melbourne, actually. Melbourne, Australia. Had one of the longest lockdowns in every other country, so we were really locked down, and I hadn't had things to do for, like, seven months. But to write this book, and I think a lot of anxiety and fear around that time probably seeped into Kidan's arc as well. Like, it helped me really get into that very dark character. So. Yeah, definitely. I think that time of when I wrote this book impacted it. Yeah, yeah.

[32:07] Marissa: All right. So then we have this character arc happening. And, of course, a big part of her growth and her story, her change revolves around this romance. A romance with a vampire. And it is an enemies to lovers, and they are enemies with a capital e. They try to kill each other, like, multiple times. I mean, there's just, like, they could not start off hating each other any more than these two characters. Did you plot that out? Did you? How did you do it? What's your process when it comes to developing the romance?

[32:47] Tigest : The romance? Yes, the romance. It started off with dialogues and scenes. I would get these flashes of images of those two. Absolutely, you know, hitting each other, just fighting. And I'm like, what's happening? Can I just, you know, figure out what's going on here? And I have to really dig deep to why they're fighting that because they're. They're always believing opposite things at one point. And I think that makes their fighting scenes really interesting. And, you know, Kidan always thinks, you know, we're evil. We're both evil. We deserve to die. And sustenance is like, I'm a vampire. I want to live. I love life. And it's just, you know what I mean?

[33:24] Marissa: Mortality is fun. What are you talking about?

[33:27] Tigest : Because their core beliefs are so different every time they're on the page, it's just fighting scenes. And I was like, okay, one of you has to change. And because Kidan is our main character, I started figuring out scenes where Sesenios could slowly chip away at her, you know, misbelief her life, that everything is useless and we all have to die so that, you know, other people who are more innocent can survive. And he kept, you know, challenging her bit bye by bit, which, you know, brought them closer. Even though she doesn't want to be, you know, attracted to him, she thinks it's a sign of her darkness and all that stuff. He slowly teaches her that, you know, we all have that inside of ourselves and it is okay to live with that part of yourself and you can even find joy and light at the end of it. So it became just slowly chipping away at their, you know, core misbehavior, core misbelief and his, you know, very iron resolved that everyone deserves to live and, you know, take whatever they want in order to survive. And I just kept pitting them against each other. Every time. And just the romance bloomed from that because I think that's how you fall in love, just learning about each other and. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[34:41] Marissa: No, it worked really exceptionally well. There were certainly moments in the first third of the book where I was like, is he the love interest? Because I cannot imagine these characters ever not hating each other. But by the time the change happened, I was convinced it felt very natural and organic. Yeah.

[35:02] Tigest : Yes. Thank you.

[35:03] Marissa: You've also mentioned there's a found family storyline, this group of friends that Kiran comes to know, and I don't know if love is the right word, but certainly she finds her people in a way, so great. They're all so unique. Really strong voices. Where did the side characters come from?

[35:29] Tigest : The side characters? I think every good book or shows has always a group of people around them that supports them. I think the one I can really remember clearly being inspired by that did the found family so well. A six of crows by Leah Bartow. She did found family in a way that was like, oh, my goodness. It's just the best trope. And it kind of drew me into creating stuff like that from my own works of fiction. And I was like, to have a very interesting group of people. You want them to be different, but also share some sort of value together. So we have the artist and we have the musician that's also a cynic that doesn't like to talk to anyone. And then we have the religious type, who is very devout and trying to keep everyone at peace. And then we also have. Artist is always the joker, usually. And I feel like that's me. I feel like I put a lot of myself into Yusuf, the character, and he just makes. He breaks the tension every time with the joke. And I always loved characters like that. So they play off of one another, and I think it's a good representation of a friendship group. You can have different personalities working together in this university, and you're also curious about how each of them can sort of graduate, you know, and which of them don't. Yeah, it's very interesting making them different. All of them. Yeah, yeah.

[36:58] Marissa: No, and it does kind of launch the. The school subplot with, like, immediate tension because the philosophy teacher on day one is like, only one of you is going to pass. So you're immediately like, well, that doesn't sound good.

[37:13] Tigest : It's so exciting. I love that the professor is so just. He likes breaking their. What is it? A result? I'm like, you're supposed to help them. You're a teacher. But he's just not, you know, he's not interested in cuddling them. They have to grow up, study, and pass. That's how he tells them. And, yeah, you have to.

[37:33] Marissa: All right, the last thing I want to talk about before we move on to the bonus round. This is the first of a trilogy, right?

[37:41] Tigest : I believe, yes.

[37:44] Marissa: You seem uncertain, which means you are probably working on book two, or is it done? How's book two coming?

[37:54] Tigest : Book two is close to being done. Yeah, I'm working on it all year. Yes.

[38:01] Marissa: Yeah.

[38:01] Tigest : Yeah.

[38:02] Marissa: So I'm curious, how much did you have planned out for the. The second and third installments as you were working on this book?

[38:12] Tigest : Very, very vague. Very, like, just the. I had the ending of book two and I had the ending of books three. Anything between that? I always like to leave it as blank because when I was revising immortal dark, it changed so much over my revisions that there was no way I could plan out scene by scene for book two or three. There's just no way because drafts, drafting process always changes it so much. All I can really see right now is the ending of books in book three, and I always use them as my guide to I know where I'm going to end up, but I just don't want to know how I'm going to get there. There's so many paths to take. Yeah. That's how I always do. Yeah.

[39:00] Marissa: Yeah. So in writer circles, we talk a lot about second book syndrome, and writers are often surprised to find that the second book is somehow even harder than the first one. Is that your experience so far?

[39:15] Tigest : Yeah, I think they're equally the same, but a little bit harder. You're right with book two, just because, you know, you have this question of how do I mimic the great parts of book one without repeating everything I just did in book one? In book two, I want to carry the same spirit or soul of book one into book two. But then naturally, I found even myself writing similar scenes to book one. Suddenly I was like, wait, I've already done that. And I think I always had to make sure that book one was very separated in my head while carrying the character arcs across and expanding the world into a different area. I think that really helps with book two. Um, but, yeah, definitely book two is a bit of a challenge because there's a pressure of continuing these great character arcs that we've started and making them, you know, not ruining them, basically just continue on to support their journeys.

[40:09] Marissa: Yeah, yeah. And also, yeah. Book two, I think, is the hardest in a trilogy because like you say, you want to kind of keep up the tension. You want to continue to raise those stakes, continue that character arc, but also always knowing you still need to leave someplace for book three to go. You know, you can't just, like, wrap it up. You have to be like, okay, but we're gonna stop here. And there still needs to be more space. That's tricky sometimes.

[40:36] Tigest : Yeah. I'm a chronic overwriter, actually. I don't have a problem with writing so much. I have. I think I actually struggle with cutting down and condensing books because I think I could almost write in the very first draft of book two. It was almost two books in one. Like, I was just writing so much, so I had to go back and really trim and push things to book three. You write. So, yeah, my process.

[41:04] Marissa: Well, I hope that makes book three even easier. Hopefully, by this point, it's written half of book three, right?

[41:09] Tigest : Definitely. Hopefully.

[41:12] Marissa: All right, are you ready for our bonus round?

[41:15] Tigest : Yes, I am. Me? Yeah.

[41:19] Marissa: What book makes you happy?

[41:22] Tigest : Oh, currently, because it changes every time. The book that has been making me happy is seven days in June by Tia Williams, which is a romance book. These two teenagers fall in love over seven days in June, and then something happened, and they don't talk for the next 15 years, and then they reunite as authors at a convention, and then they have to deal with their old feelings and unravel what happened in the past while falling in love again. And I was like, this is such a fun, cute romance. And sometimes, to break away from my fantasy, I read romance novels, and this is. It makes me giggle and keep my feet. So I really liked seven days in June.

[42:04] Marissa: That sounds so cute. I'm gonna have to check that one out.

[42:08] Tigest : Definitely. If you like your romance novels to break up your fantasy reads, definitely.

[42:12] Marissa: I do. I do. I like to mix it up, for sure. What are you working on next? I think we kind of touched on this, but maybe. What can you tell us about book two?

[42:23] Tigest : Ooh. Okay. What can I tell you about book two? It does expand the world. Stuff that's been mentioned in book one briefly. We delve deeper into it, and I could probably say this, like, some of the arcane societies that is outside of the university that has been mentioned will be explored in book two. And we will see, you know, the characters or the character, which I'm trying not to spoil, learn how to master their houses, because in this world, houses are actually powerful and they're sentient. Sentient. And they show you your emotions, and they can also create laws. So it's more about these characters that have, you know, already graduated in book one. What are they going to do in book two, and how are they going to inherit their family legacies? It's more high stakes still, very romance and yeah, a lot of fun. Hopefully you'll enjoy it by the time it comes out.

[43:20] Marissa: Lastly, where can people find you?

[43:24] Tigest : Okay, you can go on my website, tiggisgirma.com and my or my Instagram is tiggistikisgirma and Twitter is Tigest GN and TikTok is tigistgirma. I try to keep it consistent so it's easy for everyone.

[43:41] Marissa: Awesome Tigest, thank you so much for joining me.

[43:44] Tigest : Yeah, thank you so much. This has been so fun.

[43:47] Marissa: Readers, definitely check out immortal dark, which comes out tomorrow. Of course, we encourage you to support your local indie bookstore if you can. If you don't have a local indie, you can also check out our affiliate store that is@bookshop.org shop. Marissa Meyer next week we are having another craft focused episode in which I will be talking about. I don't know yet. Actually, I haven't figured that out. That's on tomorrow's to do list. But whatever it is, I will strive to make it as useful and informative as possible. Please leave us a review and follow us on Instagram. Happy writer podcast and don't forget to check out our merchandise on Etsy. Until next time, stay inspired, keep writing, and whatever life throws at you today, I hope that now you're feeling a little bit happier.