Celebrating Accomplishments and Setting Writing Goals for the New Year - with Tamara Moss

Marissa is joined by repeat podcast guest, author, longtime critique partner, fellow Sailor Moon fanfiction writer and now, cowriter, Tamara Moss. Discussed in this episode: Tamara and Marissa’s writing accomplishments for 2024 and how they celebrated (hint: Tamara shares the kind of ‘celebration’ we don’t recommend), the benefits of cleaning and decluttering, looking forward to what’s ahead for 2025, Parkinson’s Law, goal-setting and breaking down goals to be manageable, being kind to yourself, SMART goals, staying motivated, and more! 

Show Notes: 

Tamara’s other episode: https://www.buzzsprout.com/950767/episodes/4229966-epic-world-building-advice-with-tamara-moss-lintang-and-the-pirate-queen 

The Deadbolt Mystery Society: https://deadboltmysterysociety.com/ 

Getting Things Done: https://bookshop.org/a/11756/9780143126560

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Transcript

[00:09] Marissa: Hello and welcome to the Happy Writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers more books to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I am your host, Marissa Meyer. Thank you so much for joining me. One thing making me happy this week is the Deadbolt Society, which I was recommended. Actually, it was. Was it you, Tamara, that recommended this? Where did I hear about the Deadbolt Society? All right. I'm not sure who told me about the Deadbolt Society, but it was recommended to me. They are a mystery puzzle box company. So essentially they send you a little mystery in a box and it's like getting to do an escape room in the comfort of your own home. So I've done a couple with the girls and we are at the time of this recording. We are waiting to receive our Christmas themed mystery box which I'm super excited about. And you guys know me, this is just like so up my aisle. I just love this sort of thing. So it has been a really fun discovery and they've got dozens of them on their website so, you know, it might keep me busy for a little while. I am also so happy to be talking to today's guest appearing here for the second time on the Happy Writer. She is my very, very long time critique partner and I do mean long. We have been reading each other's work since we were both writing Sailor Moon fan fiction more than 20 years ago now. She is also my co writer and partner in crime as she and I have our first YA murder mystery thriller coming out in 2026 called the Escape Game. She is also the author of the middle grade series Lin Tang and the Pirate Queen. And under her pen name Tamara M. Bailey, she has also written the adult thriller the Other Olivia and the adult fantasy mystery Blood and Stone. Please welcome back Tamara Moss.

[02:21] Tamara: Oh yes, I remember you telling me about the Deadbolt Society. That sounds so cool. And then I told you that I had bought these greeting cards that are little escape rooms inside them. So you've got to solve the clues and figure out the picture and. And you got to crack the code basically. It's good fun.

[02:40] Marissa: I love that. Do you have to like solve the code before you get your present?

[02:44] Tamara: Yes, because you have to go to the website and then type in the answer and then it opens up to what your. Your gift is.

[02:54] Marissa: Oh, I love that.

[02:56] Tamara: Yeah.

[02:57] Marissa: Awesome. Well, we are collecting ideas for promoting the Escape Game, so I've definitely got like a list going and things like this. Like I just get so tickled pink by them.

[03:08] Tamara: Yeah, that's so clever. I love them.

[03:12] Marissa: So Happy New Year.

[03:14] Tamara: Yay. You too.

[03:17] Marissa: So today we are having our special Happy New Year episode. We're going to be focusing on celebrating our accomplishments from the year gone by and also focusing on goal setting for this coming year. So I hope this is a topic that's going to be really inspiring and encouraging to a lot of our listeners. But before we get into it, I thought maybe we should like quickly pitch our new slash upcoming books. So, Tamara, do you want to tell listeners a little bit about your newest release, Blood and Stone?

[03:55] Tamara: Sure. Yes. It is a fantasy crime. So it's like a procedural. There's a detective, there's a murder, but there are witches and it's set in Fantasy City. Quite gritty. It's sort of a bit like Terry Pratchett Discworld, but without all the satire and stuff. But I've heard that people are desperately in love with my characters. That's such a nice thing to hear when people say that. Desperately in love with your characters. And it's sort of the detective is sort of like Kate Beckett from Castle. So if anyone's familiar with that, that that is what you are in for when you're reading Blunderstone.

[04:33] Marissa: Is there a Nathan Fillion type character in the book?

[04:37] Tamara: Do you know? The person who interviewed me when the book was released said that she sort of filled the Nathan Fillion role as well. It was really interesting. I didn't think of that at all. And he said it was noir. And I was like, really? I didn't know I was writing a noir. I thought I had more a steampunk sort of vibe, but not too into that. But yes, it was such a joy to write actually our world building episode that we did together. Marisa, on your podcast, that was Blood and Stone that I was talking about when I was talking about how I built that world. So there you go. You can go back and listen to that and realize that all of those things are what built the world of Blood and Stone.

[05:13] Marissa: I love that. It's like getting the behind the scenes and then getting to see into the process and then now here is the book that you can compare the notes against.

[05:24] Tamara: Yeah, exactly.

[05:26] Marissa: And then of course you and I have been very hard at work the last couple of years writing our first co written project together, which I'm so giddy about. And I actually, I had the thought earlier today, knowing that we were going to be recording this, that like I should practice a pitch for the Escape game. I have not. I didn't do It. I just thought it. Have you. Do you have a pitch ready to.

[05:50] Tamara: Go for our book? Yeah. I say it is Escape game, reality show, murder mystery, and that's it.

[05:57] Marissa: Okay.

[05:58] Tamara: And everybody's like, I want it.

[06:01] Marissa: It's done its job.

[06:04] Tamara: Yeah.

[06:04] Marissa: Awesome. And the Escape Game comes out in April of 26, and it feels like a really, really long ways away, but I know it's gonna go by so fast.

[06:13] Tamara: Oh, yeah, it does, doesn't it?

[06:15] Marissa: Okay, so today we're gonna talk about celebrating accomplishments, and then we're gonn setting goals. Because I love this time of year. I love the new year. I love how it feels like you kind of get a clean slate. Like, you've got all this energy and motivation and you're like 12 whole months. What can I do with this time given to me? Even though I, like, recognize that it's kind of an arbitrary thing, like nothing actually changes on January 1st. But I just, I love the whole concept of feeling like, let's get ready to tackle some really big things this year. Are you the same way? Or, like, are you a resolution maker? What are your thoughts about the new year these days?

[07:02] Tamara: I don't really make too many resolutions. I might choose one or two, but I do look at the year ahead and sort of vaguely map out what my writing is going to look like. And that's only a new thing, Marissa, because of you always talking about your goals. Do you have a section in the Happy Writer, your book about goal setting?

[07:22] Marissa: I do, I do. And lots about celebrating accomplishments.

[07:28] Tamara: Oh, fantastic. I cannot wait to write it. I'm so excited.

[07:32] Marissa: Oh, thank you. I know I should probably send you an early copy. I haven't gotten them yet, but I'll have to get you one. Yeah.

[07:39] Tamara: Yes. Sorry. Resolutions are. Yeah. But I think after this episode, I'm going to be taking so many notes from you, Marissa.

[07:46] Marissa: Well, I hope it'll be inspiring. I'll be curious because writing together, you are a pantser. I am a planner. And I wonder if that kind of carries over into other general ways that we think about writing and planning out our goals and, you know, what we want to accomplish this year and setting tasks for. For ourselves. Are you kind of a. A just know what has to get done and just kind of keeps going, or do you, like, I'm already getting ahead of myself. We weren't supposed to talk about this part yet, but I'm curious now. Like, if you set goals, if you break things down month weekly, like, blah, blah, blah, or do you just kind of wake up each day and figure out what you need to do that day.

[08:34] Tamara: I probably don't plan to the extent that you plan, but I think that I'm. I'm pretty organized, especially after I read that book. Was it Getting Things Done that you recommended to me?

[08:44] Marissa: This is like my favorite, favorite productivity book of all time.

[08:49] Tamara: So I've. I've bought, like, I've got my phone calendar, but I've also bought a real calendar with paper. And I go in and I, you know, write people's birthdays, and then the week before I write, buy this person a birthday present. And so I've, Yeah, I've really planned those sorts of things out. And then if I've got something in my calendar, what do I have to do before that thing happens? So it's not just, you know, specialist appointment. It's like the week before, go get your blood test for your specialist appointment. So all of those things have really helped. So, yeah, I've started. I've. I'm turning into you, Marissa.

[09:23] Marissa: Yes. Okay. But like I said, I'm getting ahead of us. Let's talk about accomplishments. Here we are. We're at the end of 2024. It's been a roller coaster of a year, I think. I don't know if you feel that way, but I certainly feel like it's just been kind of a bonkers year. There's been so much happening. So I'm gonna start with you. What are some things that you accomplished that you were really excited about this year?

[09:51] Tamara: I mean, besides the Escape Game, which is obviously the biggest thing? Yeah. I also have finished my 7 millionth draft of my next book, my solo book, which I am going to print out soon and send to you after I've gone through it one last time. But this one I wrote when my daughter, she's now two and a half, but I started this book when she was a month old, and I wrote it in a notebook and then I wrote it as an adult. So I was trying to send it out as an adult book, and I've only recently in the past year, changed it to a young adult. So I. I looked back over my emails to myself where I've seen that my structural sort of changes happened at the beginning of this year. So I've spent all year turning it into a young adult book. So that was my other big accomplishment that I did this year.

[10:46] Marissa: Okay. So this new kind of old murder mystery, I don't know how much you really want to say about it.

[10:55] Tamara: Yes, it is another young adult murder Mystery.

[10:57] Marissa: Okay. And so you've been working on this murder mystery. You've made good progress on that? Of course. We did a ton of work on the Escape Game. Um, that took up a lot of our time. You also released a book this year.

[11:10] Tamara: I did. Blood and Stone.

[11:11] Marissa: Yes, Blood and Stone. Anything else? Any other things that, like, stand out to you?

[11:16] Tamara: I hired a virtual assistant. Woohoo. Oh, that's exciting. Yes. So my website should look a bit better than it did. And that I think that'll really help with all my social media stuff too.

[11:28] Marissa: Yeah. Now having a virtual assistant is huge. Thanks, Joanne. Okay, well, so for me, I was actually. When I sat and made the list this morning. What did I do here in 2024? I finished writing the list feeling pretty darn proud of myself, I will admit.

[11:52] Tamara: I know you're gonna make me look bad.

[11:53] Marissa: Oh, I'm sorry, that's so not my intention. I mean, should we. I do feel like it's necessary to point out that you do have a toddler. As you mentioned, you were also working three jobs this year.

[12:05] Tamara: Yeah, I was, but I slowly began to quit them. The Escape Game. So now I'm a full time writer. Yeah, that's a really big thing that I did this year. I became a full time writer, which has been my dream for, you know, the 20 years that we've been. Since we've been writing Sailor Moon fan fiction together. So that's huge. That's huge.

[12:23] Marissa: Congratulations. That's a really, really big moment.

[12:27] Tamara: Yes. So there you go. So I know. I'm really, really excited to hear what you've done because it's very inspiring to hear when somebody's done heaps. So please don't feel bad. I'm go for it. List all of your things.

[12:40] Marissa: Okay, here is my list. 2024. I released two books with a Little Luck and Let It Glow. I did revisions and edits on the two books that are coming out this coming year, which is the Happy Writer and we Could Be magic. I wrote and revised my next fairy tale, retelling the House of Fear. I started writing a new graphic novel, which I can't talk about yet because I don't think we've announced that one. I read and gave feedback on the script for the first Lunar Chronicles movie. Fingers crossed that that gets greenlit here in the new year. Together with Tamara, we revised and sold the Escape Game. We have also. Oh, actually you could have included this one. We also started planning and outlining the sequel to the Escape Game. And I've outlined 1, 2, 3, 4 new books for the coming. Not even this year. I mean, I won't get to all of them this year, but I've outlined four books for the coming years.

[13:49] Tamara: Sorry, can I. When you say outlined, do you mean you've gone through the save the cat method and written out what will happen?

[13:57] Marissa: Yes, yes. Loosely though. I mean, they're not like really in depth outlines, but I do have like the major beats in place and have started figuring out what the subplots are going to be and started figuring out how I'm going to work those into the story.

[14:17] Tamara: Right. Wow, that's a lot. I have my own sort of outline process which is just learning and giving vibes and making Pinterest boards. So I've done that for one book and the other one, I went through the story genius. And I came up with some stuff for another book for a very future event. It's such a big book that I'm too scared to start it. So I've just sort of, sort of thought about it. So, yeah, there you go. Those are a few things that I've done. But wow, that's so much. Marissa.

[14:50] Marissa: It was a lot. It was, it was a really. It was a lot this year in a lot of good ways. And I'm so excited and so proud. But I'm also like here at the end of the year feeling a little tired and feeling like maybe, maybe we should slow down here in 2025 a little bit.

[15:07] Tamara: Yeah.

[15:07] Marissa: Okay. How do we celebrate? What are some of the things that you have done to celebrate your accomplishments this year? What did you do to celebrate when you quit your jobs? That's what I really want to know.

[15:19] Tamara: I got my gallbladder out, so I had my last day on a Monday gallbladder out on the Tuesday. And then I went to spend six weeks in recovery. So that wasn't as exciting as you might think. It was like a slow change into a full time rider, which is a bit of a shame. It could have been with a big bang, but it had to happen. And now I'm much healthier and better. So that's important, I think.

[15:47] Marissa: Yeah.

[15:48] Tamara: So yeah, I can't say I really did much for that, but when we saw the Escape game, I. So my best friend came up from five hours away and we. She hired a limo and I didn't know it was coming. And then it showed up and it took us around the city and then we went to an escape room, believe it or not, love it. And we escaped and then we went to karaoke with a bunch of friends and we sang all night long. So that was really great. That was such a fun, fun way to celebrate.

[16:22] Marissa: Yeah, that was a big, big way to celebrate.

[16:24] Tamara: Yes, I think so. What about you? What did you do?

[16:28] Marissa: So I don't remember any, like, big. I didn't do anything big like that. But I do always try. Whenever I hit, like, a big milestone, like turning a book in or when a book comes out, I always try to take a moment. A lot of times it's like, okay, I'm gonna open a bottle of special wine or I'm going to go see a movie, or I'm going to, like, take a whole day and just relax and read a book cover to cover. And so I always try to do something to mark the occasion because otherwise it's so easy for me to be like, okay, turned that in. Onto the next one. Onto the next one. So I think it's important to.

[17:12] Tamara: Don't do that. Take a break. I know. Well, and I like how so here.

[17:18] Marissa: Just a few days ago, I turned in the House of Fear and I sent it to you to do my critique for me. And you had asked in your email, like, what are you doing to celebrate? And I was like, I'm cleaning my house. Cause my house is a disaster. And I know that that doesn't feel like a celebration, but I love when a book is turned in and I can take a break and take a breath and then, like, spend a day or two doing, like, spring cleaning work. Like, I'm going to organize my drawers and I'm going to, like, go through this closet that has been stressing me out for months. And I don't know, I really enjoy that, actually.

[17:57] Tamara: Oh, I love that too. I love it, too. Listen to a podcast or listen to some fun music and just. It's like decluttering your mind, decluttering your house. It feels so good. And just moving your body as well. Because especially during that last stretch, I find that I'm sitting at the computer so much. My poor back is killing me. And I just. Cleaning really helps with the body movement.

[18:20] Marissa: No, absolutely. I did go get a massage. I did go get a massage after this last one.

[18:24] Tamara: Sorry. Yeah, I think the other way I celebrate is just food. Yeah, I don't remember sometime this year, I don't even remember what I was celebrating. But my husband cooked up a nice roast and we had a glass of red wine and we had some custard Danish and ice cream for dessert, and we watched the Great British Bake off. And look, a lot of my nights look like that, but the roast is not usual. But yeah, it was. It like a little cheers and. And it just made it feel, you know, it wasn't that different to our usual nights, but it did feel a little bit more special. And I do. Marissa, I do remember you had a different wine for every Lunar Chronicles book. I do set aside for the day that you'd sell them, I think it was. And. Or when it was coming out, but you definitely had it before you even sold it. And you had the labels on the bottles and everything.

[19:17] Marissa: I do remember I'd forgotten all about that. But no, I had them and had been storing them for, like, years by the time I got to open them.

[19:24] Tamara: Yes, it was very exciting. I was very excited for you.

[19:29] Marissa: Well, I appreciate having. Taking a moment because originally I was just going to do this episode all about goal setting, but when I was thinking about it, I think it's kind of like I mentioned, it's so easy to just get caught up on the hamster wheel and like, okay, what's the next goal? What's the next thing? And I know so many people forget to take the time and really celebrate what they've done. And it can be, you know, 12 months is a really long time, and we forget. We forget what we've done and forget those little successes. And so I've actually started keeping a list. When I succeed or something or when I finish something, I've started writing it down. So at the end of the year, I have something to look at and can be like, oh, wow. I actually did a lot this year because there are certainly days when you feel like you're just spinning your wheels.

[20:22] Tamara: Yeah. Well, after you asked me what were your accomplishments for this year, I realized, you know, you're right. It is such a long time that I. I honestly couldn't remember everything that I'd done. So I think that's a great idea. Writing down your successes. I'll even put it on my. My cork board so I can see it right in front of me.

[20:39] Marissa: Yeah.

[20:40] Tamara: Probably is the best way to do it. Yes. But also, reading books, you're right. Reading books is another way to celebrate because you put it off, especially at that end bit. And I. I think I've gotten through five books since I finished my most recent manuscript. Rating and rating and writing.

[20:58] Marissa: That's what I do. It's so good for, like, refilling the well.

[21:02] Tamara: Yes.

[21:03] Marissa: Yeah. All right. Well, I hope that that encourages some people to, like, take a moment Today and think back to your 2024 experience and think, like, what did you do that you're really happy about and proud of? And just like, take a moment to really appreciate that. And then, of course, start looking ahead to 2025. Here we go. Goal setting. I like goals. You know me. Tamara, what's your 2025 looking like so far? What do you hope to get done this year?

[21:37] Tamara: I think I'm just gonna go for the two again.

[21:39] Marissa: That's fine.

[21:40] Tamara: Oh, my gosh.

[21:40] Marissa: That's like. There's nothing wrong with just trying to write only two books.

[21:48] Tamara: Yeah. So before I got into any of this goal setting, and it's all because of you, but I wouldn't even look that far ahead. I'd just be working on the one book and I wouldn't think about anything else. But when you're trying to build a brand or think about your author career, it is good to sort of have a few things on the back burners just ready. So that's why that planning thing. I don't normally plan a book if I'm not going to start it straight away, but it has sort of helped to think, okay, I've got things that I can work on next. So that's been really good. So, yes, we're going to write the sequel to the Escape Game, and that's going to take up most of the first half of the year, maybe more. And then I have another young adult murder mystery that I am planning to write, and I'm very excited. I have to tell you all about it when we get on.

[22:37] Marissa: Oh, I'm excited.

[22:38] Tamara: This is news to me. Yes.

[22:41] Marissa: Related at all to the one that you just finished or totally separate.

[22:44] Tamara: Don't worry, not new.

[22:46] Marissa: Okay.

[22:47] Tamara: New book. Yes. And we have to do revisions for the Escape Game. There'll be copy edits or something happening soon and. And then it will depend on deadlines, won't it? Because everything changes in a second when you get a new book deal or a deadline comes up that you weren't expecting.

[23:02] Marissa: Yeah.

[23:03] Tamara: You have to change everything.

[23:04] Marissa: No, it's true. And I. I mean, that's a great point. And I will say that even though I plan, the plan is always changing. Like, I will start out the year by having an idea of what I want to be working on every month. So, for example, here we are entering into January, my priority is going to be finishing line edits on the Escape Game and finishing this graphic novel that is due here in January and then working on the outline for book two, the Escape Game sequel. But there's a high likelihood that those first two items are gonna take up the entirety of the month. And then it's into February when you're outlining, and then things get pushed back, and then you learn of a new deadline, and then things change. And so even though I will kind of start out the year having an idea of what I want to be doing every month, I never, ever have a year where that's actually how things work out. Like, things are always shifting and moving around.

[24:05] Tamara: Do you always end up doing less than what you'd planned?

[24:08] Marissa: Yeah. Yeah. Or. I don't know if less is the right word. It will end up being different. Different things than I planned.

[24:16] Tamara: Okay.

[24:17] Marissa: Yeah.

[24:18] Tamara: But things tend to be ambitious.

[24:20] Marissa: Yeah, no, I'm very. I'm very. I am ambitious, and I. I definitely often will take on more than I can actually get done. And I like to, like, push myself and challenge myself to try to get a lot done. And I don't know. I don't feel bad about it if it doesn't happen. I feel like having those high goals, even if I don't reach that goal, I know that I got more done trying to get it than if I hadn't set the goal to begin with, if that makes sense.

[24:52] Tamara: And then you can just roll into the new year, so you've got new things for the next year to look forward to, which I don't mind at all.

[24:58] Marissa: Absolutely. There's always more coming up in the pipeline.

[25:02] Tamara: Oh, yeah, Yeah. I don't do it month by month. I decided to do it season by season because it does take a long time to pop. So I just go on summer doing this. Yeah, well, that actually might be a.

[25:15] Marissa: Better way to do it because things really do end up taking so much longer than you think they will.

[25:21] Tamara: Yeah, kind of.

[25:22] Marissa: On a related note, I wanted to. As we're talking about goal setting, I wanted to bring up Parkinson's Law. Are you familiar with Parkinson's Law? I know. Not everybody knows about this concept.

[25:33] Tamara: I did have to Google it. But, yes, when I read about it, I was like, ah, yes. But I've never. I've never. I never thought that hard about it. Why don't you explain what it is while I think?

[25:43] Marissa: Okay. Yeah. So Parkinson's Law is the idea that work expands to fit the time given for it. So, for example, if you have a deadline on January 31, chances are you're going to be turning in that book on January 31st. Or in the case of so many of us, February 4th, February 8th. Like a lot of times, things kind of run on a little long. But if you give yourself less time, if that deadline is moved up to January 15th, well, miraculously, you will be turning it in on January 15th. And so just the idea that however much time we give ourselves to complete something, the work is going to expand to fill that full amount of time. I think about this a lot when I'm setting goals, because if something. If I think that a book will take six months to write, then I will try to do it in four months, as an example. Or if I think it'll take a year, that I'm going to try to do it in nine months, knowing that, then I give myself a little bit of wiggle room. But also because if I can get it done in that shortened period of time, then I've freed up more space later in the year to work on other things.

[27:06] Tamara: That law applies to, I don't know, other sort of work. But I don't know about writing in terms of. Okay, so you're talking about if it's due January 31 or January 15, you'll. You'll manage to get it done. But will it be as good if you rush to finish it by January 15th? Or if you got those extra weeks, can you spend a bit more time on characters or the way that you phrase certain things in your. And. And repetition in your sentences so you can spend a bit more time and love and care on. On the things if you've given yourself? And so, like, yeah, it might take that long, but you'll probably get a better product from it. That's what I think.

[27:46] Marissa: Yeah, no, that's very true. And I certainly don't think that people should try to rush through or stress themselves out trying to hit a goal that's not reasonable to begin with. I think the difference is not procrastinating. Like, it's not so much that you don't want to give yourself the time that you need to really write the book that you want to write. It's more like, if you think that I have this entire month to do it, well, you might spend the first week of the month maybe kind of goofing off. Maybe I'm gonna go, you know, read a book today when I should be writing. Maybe I'm gonna go, like, shopping today when I should be writing or, like, whatever it is. And of course, now we can get into, like, life balance. And sometimes you should go read a book, and sometimes you should take care of yourself in other ways. But the idea Being that if you know you have more time than you really need to do something, then our brains can get in the way and be like, well, I don't need to start on it right now, I have time.

[28:50] Tamara: Yeah, I guess the starting is where the problem is. But if you set the smaller goals. So I assume we're going to be talking about smart goals. I did say that. Yeah. And you know, yes, you want to finish it by January 15th, but I want to have the first 5,000 words written by the end of this week. Then that sort of, I think that helps just start. You know, those starting steps and the smaller bite sized manageable goals in between. I think that's, that's where you can counterbalance your procrastination issues.

[29:22] Marissa: Yes. 

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[30:51] Marissa: No, absolutely. And you mentioned doing things on thinking of your projects on kind of a seasonal basis. Yes. How do you. So if you're saying like, okay, this season I'm focusing on this project, how do you go about then breaking projects down into smaller chunks?

[31:11] Tamara: Well, it's really hard when you don't know how long the project's going to be. So I, I sort of, I gave myself a 90,000 word limit for this one that I'm writing and 3/4 of the way through it I realized it was probably going to be closer to 100,000. So I sort of change that. On my scrivener goals, I was doing a chapter a day, so that's, that's how I do it. I just. It wasn't a word count thing because each chapter was varying. And I. And I've heard some really great things about finishing in the middle of a sentence or finishing right before you're about to write something exciting. So you're excited to sit down and write it the next day. Um, and that's a really great thing if you remember what you're about to do. But I go, what am I gonna write? And that will not work. And also, if I'm really excited to write a scene, I'll lie awake in the middle of the night and just think about the scene. And that's a real problem for me. So I. I do want to get it done. So I find that finishing a chapter and this one was rotating points of view, so the next chapter would be someone else's point of view, which meant I had a whole day after that chapter was written to think about how I was going to start the next. Where the best place to start the next chapter was and how they would be feeling and what had already happened to them and what they were thinking about to start that off. Which really, you know, having that time really helped. So it was the chapter a day thing. So seven days in the week. Seven chapters written that week.

[32:40] Marissa: Yeah. And so what do you do if you hit a snag? If life gets in the way and you can't get a chapter done today, or if by the time you get to sit down the next morning, you still don't really know what's supposed to happen in this chapter, what do you do?

[32:58] Tamara: Okay, you are going to fall over in shock. But I had actually planned, plotted out this book chapter by chapter.

[33:10] Marissa: No way. Yes.

[33:12] Tamara: I did not.

[33:12] Marissa: Tamara Maas.

[33:14] Tamara: Remember, I had already written this book out in a notebook and done like 6, 699 drafts before this one. And yes, I had changed all the characters and everything, but I knew their arcs and everything and what I had wanted for them. So, yeah, I sat down with a spreadsheet and color coded and wrote down all the things that were. I know.

[33:32] Marissa: Who am I talking to right now?

[33:34] Tamara: I know, I know. And it's because I was working with you. I blame you. During the co writing thing. God, that was so useful. Having the chapter there, knowing what was going to happen in that chapter. And sometimes so it'd be like I'd write two lines about what I wanted to happen in the chapter. In the chapter would end up twice the length as every other chapter. So all that ended up happening, I would just say, start writing Something I find if I write the first line, the first sentence and the second sentence and then I sort of get on a roll that way. And then if later I don't like it, I can change it around or change where the chapter starts. And sometimes I'd have to move where the chapters were. Thank you, Scrivener, for letting me just move chapters back and forth. So yeah, I didn't get stuck this time. If I do get stuck, then I, I figure that this is not what I should be writing next. That really helps too. If, if you're stuck and you've got multi point of views, then obviously the next point of view isn't where you need to go next.

[34:35] Marissa: That's what I find. I had that so much with the House of Fear, which is a single point of view book. So it wasn't the point of view issue, but it was one of those books where writing it was very much two steps forward, one step back, where I'd write 20,000 words and feel like, eh, something's wrong here. And then I'd have to go back 10,000 words and try something else. And okay, now we've, we continue down this path and then that's going well. And then, nope, something's gone wrong again. And it was this. Even though I had an outline, there were. I continually had to go back and try different methods and revamp the outline as I went. Which doesn't happen with every project. But some projects are just like that.

[35:20] Tamara: Yeah, it sounded like it was quite the headache for you. And do you sit down and you brainstorm and you do like the top eight things that could happen and all that stuff, I'm sure, yeah, brainstorming. Gosh, that makes a huge difference though, doesn't it?

[35:34] Marissa: A huge difference. A huge difference. And trying this can be hard because a lot of times if you have a goal and you have like, say you're trying to write a chapter a day or a thousand words a day or whatever it is, it can be difficult to give yourself space to pause and take the time to brainstorm, take the time to kind of listen to those instincts that tell you something's not right here. And a lot of times if we're trying to just keep writing, get the chapters done, get the words done, we don't want to stop. Like we want to see those words adding up. But sometimes we have to remember that it's just as valuable and potentially will save us a lot of time and heartache if we do pause and step back and think, okay, let's let's take some time to brainstorm. Let's take some time to figure out what's going wrong here.

[36:26] Tamara: Yeah, I think you have to be kind to yourself, really. If you're working on something, especially something really tricky, and then you look back at the end of the day and you think, did I work today? And that doesn't necessarily mean adding the words. It can mean going for a swim and thinking about the scene. And if you did that, then you worked today. And that's all you can, that's all you can put at the end of the day is, yes, I've worked today, I've shelved that. And then the next day try again. And, and it will get done. If you've just put a little bit of thought into it every day and then you start writing things down every day, it will get done. You have to have faith in that. Yeah, I think that that's. You have to be kind to yourself, though. And, and at the end of it, when you're finished, you can say, yeah, that was really hard, but I'm so proud of that because that was so hard, but I still did it. And then you prove to yourself 100%.

[37:14] Marissa: Yeah, no, I think it's really, really important. The, the whole, the idea of being kind to yourself. And even though goals are fabulous and you know, it's great to have something that you're reaching toward, it's great to challenge yourself if it's to a point where you're just frustrated and stressed out and like, where you start to dread writing for the day, like that's, that's a signal that, okay, maybe, maybe to take a break and there's nothing wrong with that. So that's important to keep in mind.

[37:49] Tamara: And if, if you're getting close to your deadline, your self imposed deadline and you know that you're not going to make it, just set it back another week or so and that can be your new goal. You know, don't reach the day and be like, oh my God, I've got to get 15,000 words done today. Just set the goal a little bit. You know, still have your goal. Just, just push it back a little bit so that you've got a new goal. And that, that I find that mentally that makes a huge difference.

[38:15] Marissa: Huge, huge. And I will say that like, so the House of Fear. I turned it in 10 weeks behind deadline. And part of me hates that. You know, I like, I want to be the author that turns things into my editor when she needs it and is expecting it. But I know that if I had forced myself to try to get it done by that original deadline, I don't even know what the book would have looked like, but it definitely would not have been. I would not have been as happy with the book as I was with what I turned in.

[38:47] Tamara: Yeah, yeah, There you go.

[38:49] Marissa: All right, so do you.

[38:50] Tamara: Can you just talk us through those tricky moments where you're taking one step forward and two steps back? What. What sort of motivated you or drove you or what helped? Have you got any advice?

[39:03] Marissa: Oh, my gosh. You know, here we are.

[39:06] Tamara: This is.

[39:07] Marissa: I don't even know, like, we're getting on close to 20 books now that I have written in my career. And one thing that I have learned that I don't think that I had early in my career is that awareness of the voice in your head that tells you when something's not working there. It's so instinctive. It's that. That little intuition. And I. I feel like it's something that's developed with experience and with having written so many books. So in the past, I would write a draft as quickly as I could, and then I would revise it and revise and revise it. And I hated the idea of stopping mid draft and going backwards. I always was trying to get to the end, and then, okay, I'll finished it. I'll go back and fix things, you know, once I finished. But now I'm much more apt to think, you know what? I can feel that this isn't right. I can feel that something isn't working. And I'm much more willing to pause mid draft and go back and work on things and revise as I'm going, which I did not used to do. So I think that's a lot of it for me with this book in particular, was just like hearing those little niggles in the back of my mind that was saying, this plot or this motivation or whatever it was, there's just something wrong here. And rather than forcing my way through, let's stop and see if we can find a different path.

[40:43] Tamara: Yes, I've also got those nickels now.

[40:46] Marissa: Yeah, right.

[40:48] Tamara: Very useful. But, gosh, it's so frustrating.

[40:52] Marissa: No, something is wrong, right?

[40:56] Tamara: Yeah.

[40:56] Marissa: And you don't always know. Like, it's not always obvious what is the wrong thing. And so a lot of times, I mean, there are days. There are whole days where you just sit with a notebook and stare out the window and just think, well, what if I went this direction? Well, what if I change this character? What if I took this character out, you know, it. It. It's. The answer is not always obvious. You have to. You have to think through it.

[41:18] Tamara: Yes.

[41:19] Marissa: Yeah. All right. You mentioned smart goals. S, M, A, R, T, Which I don't think you can have a goal setting conversation without talking about smart goals, even though they've kind of become a cliche at this point. Point. Do you know, I had to look it up. Like, I'm familiar with smart goals, but I still had to go and look up to be like, okay, what exactly do these letters stand for? Do you know off the top of your head? I've got it written down.

[41:46] Tamara: All right, let me say specific. Measurable. Actionable. Is. Is. Does I stand for actionable?

[41:57] Marissa: Achievable.

[41:58] Tamara: Achievable. Oh, what are we up to? R. Reliable.

[42:06] Marissa: R is relevant.

[42:08] Tamara: Relevant. And then T must be time. Right?

[42:10] Marissa: Time. Time based.

[42:12] Tamara: Yeah. Oh, look, I wasn't far off.

[42:15] Marissa: No, no, you did good. And honestly, I think a lot of times these. It's an acronym. Is an acronym the right word? I get this is one of those words that I'm like. Is that what that is?

[42:24] Tamara: Yeah, I think so.

[42:27] Marissa: Sometimes I feel like people are just like, well, I need an A so that I can use smart here. So what can I use to smart? So let's break this down as pertains to either writing in general or if. I don't know, I haven't given this much thought, but, like, how it pertains to some of our specific 2025 goals. We can, like, do our own 2025 goal setting right here.

[42:54] Tamara: All right, let me get a pen and paper. Okay, good.

[42:57] Marissa: Are you ready to take notes? Specific. So let's talk about, you know what? Let's talk about book two of the escape game.

[43:07] Tamara: Yeah. I feel like that's the one that we should be doing together.

[43:09] Marissa: Yeah, no, that 100% makes sense. As I was saying that I'm like, clearly, because this is kind of the next thing that we need to think about. All right, what do you think are specific goal for the escape game?

[43:22] Tamara: Should be. Should it not be to send in the first draft on the due date?

[43:27] Marissa: I was gonna say, I don't even know off the top of my head what the due date is. Is it August?

[43:30] Tamara: August. August.

[43:33] Marissa: Okay. Well, yeah, to send in the. I don't want to send in the first draft. I hate sending in first drafts, though.

[43:39] Tamara: Well, I mean, first, you know, in quotation marks.

[43:42] Marissa: In quotation. Yeah, it'll be like, probably the third draft in reality.

[43:47] Tamara: Well, that's if we ever get started on it.

[43:54] Marissa: That's why we're setting these goals. Okay. So the goal is to send in the book on the due date, which is sometime in August. Measurable. Is that a measurable goal? It seems pretty measurable.

[44:07] Tamara: Yeah. Yeah. Because we can say, yes, we finished it.

[44:11] Marissa: Yeah.

[44:12] Tamara: Yeah.

[44:12] Marissa: Either you do it or you don't do it.

[44:14] Tamara: Yeah.

[44:15] Marissa: Is it achievable?

[44:16] Tamara: Yes, depending on how many other books you're planning to sell and rot between now and then.

[44:24] Marissa: Okay, let's just go with yes. Let's just go with yes. That is 100% achievable. Relevant.

[44:30] Tamara: Optimist.

[44:31] Marissa: Always the optimist. No, we've got this. We've got this relevance. Like, yeah, that's our career, and it's writing. And I'm not. I'm not really sure what to do with the relevancy. This is back to, like, the. The smart. Like, they just didn't want to call it SMAT goals.

[44:50] Tamara: Smit.

[44:53] Marissa: And time based.

[44:54] Tamara: Yeah.

[44:54] Marissa: So, okay, so the next step for me, like, once I know what my goal is, is, of course, to break it down into smaller chunks and then to kind of, like, set deadlines between now and the real deadline. So what would you say would, like, be our next deadline?

[45:14] Tamara: I think start the writing, because we've done some planning, so we should choose a date to start the very first chapter.

[45:23] Marissa: Okay. I would add another stepping stone there because it's been a couple months since I've been in the file, and I want to go through the outline again. And because you did a lot more backstory work, so I wanted to make sure that we've, like, brought in the new backstory into the outline.

[45:43] Tamara: Have you read it yet, the backstory?

[45:45] Marissa: I have not, no. Because I just turned in the House of Fear, so I haven't even seen it. But I. Wait.

[45:51] Tamara: Just wait. It's great.

[45:52] Marissa: I'm so excited. No, I have every right to believe that it's fabulous. And I can't wait.

[45:59] Tamara: You know, also, maybe like, new playlist on Spotify or something as well. I think that that. So, you know, get yourself in the mood. Get yourself amped up to get started. Yeah, that helps.

[46:09] Marissa: Yeah. Some inspiration. Oh, we should start building a Pinterest inspiration board for the setting. I love that. So I would say by like, I think January BY maybe, like, February 15th, we should have a playlist and an inspiration board and the outline and then, like, ready to start writing. How does that sound?

[46:32] Tamara: All right. In the calendar.

[46:34] Marissa: And now you're gonna hold that to me, because you're like, you said it in the podcast. I have proof.

[46:40] Tamara: What do you preach?

[46:42] Marissa: All right. I also wanted to talk about staying motivated, because I think this comes up a lot when we people talk about goal settings. Like, yeah, it's all fun. It's really fun to set goals and to say, like, I'm gonna accomplish all these great things this year. Here's my deadlines, I've broken it up into small chunks, et cetera, et cetera. But it can be hard to then keep yourself on task and to keep motivated when things inevitably get challenging or the book's not going how you wanted it to, or life gets in the way or whatever it is. How do we stay motivated?

[47:17] Tamara: It certainly helps to have a co writer who's relying on you to get the next chapter to them.

[47:22] Marissa: Oh, my gosh, that is so true. And this is, like, one of the biggest things that I've learned from co writing with both you and Joanne is that, like, when someone is waiting for you, what are you gonna do? Just not do it.

[47:35] Tamara: Yeah. And having editors waiting for you, too, is pretty scary. But if you don't have a co writer or an editor, I've found, look, if you're following certain authors online, they'll post their word counts for the day. I think it's really motivating. So I love that. And then, so I would say post your own as well, have a nice little background, overlay it with your word count for the day, and then maybe say other things that you got done. Say, like brainstormed this or whatever to just remember that there's more to it than just the word count. And then you're held accountable. I mean, you could just do it in a group chat or to one friend or to, you know, your two and a half year. I don't think she cares so much, but maybe at least you've got someone to tell. And I think that, that, that that's it. You know, if you just tell a couple of friends, oh, I got this many ways on that. I did that this year. I. My friends and I would go back and forth about how much we got written during the day or the week and that really, I think that we cheered each other on and we, you know, use the happy emojis and stuff, and that was enough. Yeah, you didn't need to reward yourself with food or anything. Just a, yeah, keep going. And then, you know, it builds up, and then Suddenly you've got 30,000 words and 50,000 words, and then you finish your book.

[48:51] Marissa: And it's so exciting. No, totally. And having that momentum and having, like, almost an accountability partner sometime, like, just someone who's waiting to hear how you did today or how you did this week can be extremely motivating.

[49:07] Tamara: Yeah. And just, you know, there have been days where I have not wanted to write at all. And I just. I made myself sit down because I knew it would feel good at the end. And my goodness, does it feel good when you've done your chapter and you're just so, so happy? It feels so much better when you didn't want to write and you did it. It just. It feels so good. You don't have to reward yourself with real extrinsic things. You can just be like, yes, the reward was that I finished, and now I'm on this great high because I've done something and I'm a little bit closer to my goal.

[49:41] Marissa: Yeah, no, absolutely. And it's funny that. I agree with that 100%. The day is when you really don't feel like it and you sit down and do it anyway. Sometimes those turn out to be the best days. Yeah.

[49:53] Tamara: Sometimes they don't. And that's okay, too, because you still count, even if it's only 200 words. You know, you've like, yes, I've done something.

[50:01] Marissa: You feel so accomplished afterwards. And then also like the idea that you can reward yourself, but it doesn't have to be like. Like a fancy dinner or like, sometimes you reminded me of the. The don't break the chain method, where, like, if you have a calendar every day that you write or every day that you make forward progress on your goal, like, give yourself one of those gold stars, and then you. The goal becomes, like, not to break the chain, to have a gold star on every single day. Because once you start to see the gold stars lining up, it doesn't have to be gold stars. It can be anything. But once you start to see them lining up, then you're like, well, I can't skip a day because then I'll be back at the beginning again. And I know that's a technique that works for a lot of people.

[50:49] Tamara: I don't. I have used that technique before, and I love it. I don't mind if I skip a day. I don't mind seeing those empty gaps. I mean, I'm sure some completionists will hate that, but it's. It's still fun to put the stickers on. It is so much fun to put a sticker on a pretty cute sticker on your calendar. And the only reason I stopped is because I didn't have a calendar. So I will absolutely be buying a little desk calendar that's got squares big enough to fit some stickers on, because that was my biggest problem this year.

[51:18] Marissa: I love that. Here we are. New year, new calendar, new stickers. Yeah. And then also another thing that you made me think of is you were talking about, like, back to, like, the idea of rewards and kind of bringing this full circle to where we started talking about the start of this episode. I love setting rewards for myself in advance. And it doesn't necessarily have to be just finishing the book or turning it into your editor or getting published. Like, decide, okay, when I hit 10,000 words, I'm going to reward myself with this, or when I hit the midway point in the novel, then this is going to be my reward. And it's like the little carrots on the stick that kind of keep you moving forward, which I think is another good way not only to motivate yourself to keep moving ahead, but then also, again, to take those moments to stop and be like, hey, I made it. I'm here. I'm doing this.

[52:18] Tamara: Oh, I love that. So can you give me some examples?

[52:22] Marissa: Oh, my gosh. Book a massage or a pedicure, or set up a date night with your partner or a girls night with some friends, or like a special bottle of wine. Or you could say, like, there's a movie that I've really been wanting to watch, so I'm gonna take a day off and watch this movie or this book I've wanted to read. You know, there's a million different things. Whatever. Whatever motivates you. Whatever excites you.

[52:49] Tamara: Oh, that's nice. Yeah, I like that.

[52:52] Marissa: It's kind of. I think that that's all that I had for our discussion on. On Goals and Celebrations. Anything that you would add.

[53:01] Tamara: Did you talk about all of your goals for this year?

[53:05] Marissa: Did I. I actually don't know. Did we skip that? Okay, my goals for 2025. I'm gonna finish this graphic novel. We're gonna write the sequel to the Escape Game, and then I'm going to write one more novel. And I think I know what that novel is going to be, but I need to talk to my agent. There's two different directions I could go for the next one, and I'm not 100% sure which it's going to be yet.

[53:33] Tamara: Okay. And that's it. That's. That's your.

[53:36] Marissa: That's really it. I'm actually. I'm Trying because this last year, 2024, which I again feel super proud of, but I also, like, I feel like I pushed myself maybe a little too hard this year and some other things that are really important to me have kind of slipped down on the priority list. Number one being homeschooling. I'm still a homeschooling mom and we're still doing it, but it just has not been as great of a homeschool year as in the past. So for this year, 2025, I'm trying not to set myself up with so many projects and goals so that I can spread my time a little bit more evenly. So that's it? Just two books? Two books and the graphic novel?

[54:25] Tamara: Yeah. That's nice. When I became a full time writer, I made sure that when I was writing down my priorities for the year. That's also something that I think is really good when you're setting goals for the year is, you know, where's family on your list? Where's health? Like, if you had a full day to do whatever, what would you make sure you got done? And I. Were you talking about how you've got a huge to do list, but then you highlight the three things you absolutely have to get done that day and then you'll be happy and then the rest is just extra. Yeah, because that was good. I liked that. Yeah. So, yeah, My priorities, like exercise. I've never really been an exercise person, but ever since I started regularly swimming, I found that my health has really.

[55:08] Marissa: Yeah.

[55:09] Tamara: So I think exercise might even have to come before riding so that if I stay healthy, then I can continue to write without a problem. So I feel like, you know, I mean, sure, like when we've got deadlines and stuff, I might have to put it on the side. But just day to day, you know, making sure I put time aside to do some exercise and make sure that I've got time to spend with my family. I don't just spend all my time locked in my room.

[55:33] Marissa: Yeah, no. And it's, it's a, that's a real fear. And certainly for me, under this most recent deadline with the house of Fear, like homeschooling became less of a priority, which I hate. And exercise also, I have not been exercising nearly as much as I generally like to, so. And then you start to feel it like your back starts to get kinks and you're not sleeping as well at night and. No, it has a whole host of issues that come along with it. So kind of.

[56:03] Tamara: Yeah, yeah.

[56:04] Marissa: Back to the idea of Trying to maintain balance and take care of yourself. So important.

[56:11] Tamara: Yeah. And there are a bunch of other things on the habits list. I'm trying to think what that. So, like, things like community, like how. How do you want to. How much do you want to be involved in the community and what can you do about it? And socializing friends is part of health. So making sure that you catch up with friends as well, those kinds of things I think should be included in the goals. For anyone listening. That's my opinion.

[56:36] Marissa: No, I agree with that. I have a. So when I make my weekly to do list, I have a list of things that will be included on an ideal week. And as I'm saying that, again, having been under deadline, I have not had an ideal week in a couple of months, which makes me sad. But it's things like I will, you know, get at least this many workouts in and I will do one yoga session and I will do one field trip with the girls or one day out with the girls. We will do one family game night. Like, things like this that I can spread out over the course of a week to make me feel like I'm generally in balance over that week.

[57:20] Tamara: Well, that's a great idea. I love that.

[57:23] Marissa: I know. And now that the book has turned in, I'm going to start doing it again.

[57:28] Tamara: That's so good. Can you just very slowly say the title of the book? Because it does sound like you're saying House of Fear, which I know is not the title, so be careful as you're saying it.

[57:41] Marissa: Yeah, no, it is the House Saphir, which is French for Sapphire.

[57:48] Tamara: And was there not a Sailor Moon character called Sapphire as well? It was.

[57:54] Marissa: There was an. I remember Rubius and Esmerald, so probably. Was it Sapphire? Was it Sapphire? Was it Sapphire?

[58:00] Tamara: Oh, I think it depends on the Japanese version versus the American version.

[58:05] Marissa: That's funny. Did not even, like, cross my mind.

[58:08] Tamara: Because as soon as I saw the title, I was like, huh? Did she get that from. I've actually got, like, a little joke character in my latest one called Serenity, where I'm like, oh, maybe I should change that. Oh, I love that.

[58:20] Marissa: And we also have a little Sailor Moon Easter Egg in the Escape game for fans.

[58:26] Tamara: We have two. I don't know if you remember, but I will tell you after.

[58:29] Marissa: Okay. Okay. Now I'm curious. I'm sure as soon as you mention, I'll be like, oh, yeah.

[58:36] Tamara: Yeah. So keep an eye out for that. But we won't tell you because it's about codes. And puzzles and cracking it. So you have to work it out on your own.

[58:44] Marissa: Yes. All right, Tamara, before we sign off, where can people find you if they want to follow you?

[58:52] Tamara: Yeah, I'm at Writer Moss on Instagram. I think that's probably the best place at the moment. Like I said, I've hired a virtual assistant, so she's going to get me started on TikTok so I can work out how. How it works. It's very scary. I can't get the videos to stop, so I just deleted the app and run away from it. But I will get back on there eventually and hopefully that'll be at ridermoss. But you just Google me. You'll find me. All right.

[59:18] Marissa: Thank you so much for joining me. It was a pleasure.

[59:21] Tamara: Oh, it was so fun. I'm very inspired readers.

[59:25] Marissa: Definitely check out Blood and Stone, which is written as Tamara M. Bailey. And of course, we hope that you will love the Escape Game when it comes out in 2026. Of course, we encourage you to support your local indie bookstore, or you can check out the books on our affiliate store@bookshop.org shop marissamyer. Next week, I will be talking with Paul Katja about his new YA romance recommended reading. Please leave us a review and follow us on Instagram happywriter podcast. And don't forget to check out our merchandise on Etsy. Until next time, stay inspired, keep writing and whatever life throws at you today or this year, I hope that now you are feeling a little bit happier.