Saying Farewell after 225 episodes... and Hello to The Happy Writer Book!

In this final (!) episode of the Happy Writer podcast, Marissa and Joanne chat about the past almost five years and 224 episodes of the podcast: favorite moments, what they learned, what they will (and won’t!) miss, how many people tuned in, and more fun facts and stats. Also discussed: THE HAPPY WRITER book – how it came about, what changed thanks to the podcast, what’s inside, what Marissa hopes readers take from it, a giveaway, and more! 

Show Notes: 

Happy Writer free downloads: https://www.marissameyer.com/the-happy-writer-book/

Enter the giveaway! https://forms.gle/1sYqAJ4mV6mo55Mp9 

The Happy Writer at Bookshop.org
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Order The Happy Writer: Get More Ideas, Write More Words, and Find More Joy from First Draft to Publication and Beyond https://bookshop.org/a/11756/9781250362377

Find out more and follow The Happy Writer on social media: https://www.marissameyer.com/podcast/

Transcript

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[00:00] Marissa: Hello and welcome to the Happy Writer. This is a podcast that aims to bring readers more books to enjoy and to help authors find more joy in their writing. I am your host, Marissa Meyer. Thank you so much for joining me for what I admit is bound to be a bit of a bittersweet episode today. I've been holding this under wraps for a couple of months now, but it is time to officially announce my retirement as a podcaster. That's right. After almost five years and 225 episodes of the Happy Writer, this is our final episode. It was not an easy decision to make, but with three books I have coming out this year and a bunch of other projects and deadlines in the works, I came to the realization here a couple months ago that something was gonna have to give. And I pretty much looked at my life and how I spend my time and I thought, well, I can either stop homeschooling my kids, or I can stop going to the gym and having the occasional moment of self care me time, or I can give up the podcast. And sadly, the podcast was the thing that I determined I just couldn't fit into my life anymore at this stage in my career. So today we are going to be talking a lot about the last five years and what the podcast has meant to us, and we're also going to be talking a whole lot about the thing that is actually making me very happy this week, and that is my book. The Happy Writer comes out tomorrow. Publishing a new book, of course, always makes me happy, always feels just like the most incredible accomplishment. And I'm always just delighted to see something come out in the world and get to go into the hands of readers. This one is particularly near and dear to my heart because, of course, it was largely inspired and driven by this podcast and the many authors that I have talked to and the listeners that I've met and heard from. And my hope and my belief is that what we talked about on this podcast, as far as bringing as much joy as possible into our writing journeys, it's really important and it can have a positive effect on other writers out there in the world. So if you have not yet ordered your copy of the Happy Writer, I hope that you will check it out. I hope it will be a really wonderful resource for you wherever you are on your writing journey. And also if you happen to be an audiobook listener, I got to read the audiobook, which was a career first. So if you just like, really like listening to me or you think you would like to have your own little Marissa, on your shoulder or in your headphones or car speakers or however you audiobook. I hope that you will check out that as well. Today, for our finale episode, I am joined once again by our happy writer, podcast admin extraordinaire and my co writer for Let It Glow, Joanne Levy. Welcome, Joanne.

[03:46] Joanne: Hello.

[03:47] Marissa: Hello.

[03:48] Joanne: Bittersweet indeed.

[03:50] Marissa: I know. I don't know really how to feel about recording this last episode. There's part of me that there's a sense of relief, a little bit, thinking, okay, this is off my plate. I don't have to, like, scramble to read the next book. I don't have to prepare, you know, podcast notes. I don't have to skip schedule a recording next week. But also, it is bittersweet. It's like, oh, but I've honestly really enjoyed this and there's been so much good to come out of it. So definitely a mixed bag of feelings.

[04:25] Joanne: Yeah. But I mean, it says a lot that you prioritized what's important to you and realized something had to give. So, I mean, that's sort of right there in the book too, so it feels right.

[04:37] Marissa: It was very much a. Like, if I. If I continue this knowing that it is taking away from some of the other things that are really important in my life, there is a hypocritical aspect because the book does talk a lot about prioritizing and protecting your time, protecting your well being. And I am one of those people where I just always feel like I can, you know, knuckle down and do more and do it all. But I recognize that it's really healthy to occasionally step back and take a look and think, can I do it all? Do I want to be doing it all? What do I want my life to look like right now? And unfortunately, this was the thing that just isn't fitting anymore. Boo.

[05:23] Joanne: Well, I mean, not everybody can do everything. But I will say, you know, watching you for the past five years, you. You sure do a lot, and you manage it really well. So it's not like you're a slacker. You're just recognizing, you know, it's time.

[05:40] Marissa: Well, thank you. I appreciate that. And I agree. And honestly, it feels like the right time with the book coming out and being episode 225. I know it's so arbitrary, but I like round numbers. I was kind of pleased with how that lined up as well.

[05:57] Joanne: It makes me happy too.

[05:58] Marissa: Yeah. All right, so we thought we would officially kick off this episode with some statistics because Joanne and I are both statistic nerds. So Joanne, what did you dig up as far as some of the numbers of the Happy Writer podcast?

[06:17] Joanne: Yeah, so, I mean, there's not a lot of metrics available, but I did find that Steven, as of this morning, There have been 474,058 downloads since the very first episode in March of. Was it 2020? Wow.

[06:38] Marissa: Yeah, that's a big number.

[06:41] Joanne: That's a big, big number. And I also found the top five episodes. So episode number one with two, Jessica Brody, which, I mean, it's a fantastic episode, but of course, by nature of time, more people are going to listen to that one than any other. So that was episode one, episode 60 with Leigh Bardugo.

[07:05] Marissa: I knew Leigh Bardugo's gotta be, like, right at the top.

[07:09] Joanne: Yeah. Episode 17 with Victoria Schwab, episode 13 with Stephanie Garber, and episode 80 with Victoria Aveyard.

[07:21] Marissa: All right. No big surprises. Those are some pretty big names. And definitely I was a little fan girly in some of those episodes, so.

[07:30] Joanne: Yeah. And I mean, they're industry veterans, so there's lots of great info in those too. So I wonder if. Not even just the name recognition of their great books, but I wonder if people return to them because there's so much good craft stuff in those.

[07:43] Marissa: No, that's a really good point. I still think back to some of the tips that were given in those episodes. They left an impression on me as well.

[07:53] Joanne: Yeah. And I remember, if I remember correctly, Stephanie Garbers especially had a lot of empathy about how difficult a journey it was for her getting published. So that stuck out in my head. And Leigh Bardugo had so many good craft tips that it was like, oh, I need to take notes through this one. Yeah. So, yeah, that's one to return to as well. And Victoria at Aveyard, the screenwriting tips, like, you could just tell she was a screenwriter, like the way everything's so cinematic. So, yeah, no good stuff.

[08:32] Marissa: Really good stuff.

[08:33] Joanne: So my next stat was the lion's share of downloads are actually from North America, so Canada and US with 83%. So that's almost 400,000 downloads in North America. And the rest were sort of scattered around the globe. And the podcast has a 4.9 star rating at both Spotify and Apple. Aw, yay, you.

[09:00] Marissa: Thanks, reviewers.

[09:02] Joanne: Yeah. So those are the stats I got today.

[09:06] Marissa: Awesome. Can you say that how the total lifetime download number again?

[09:11] Joanne: Sure. Let me scroll back up. It's 474,058.

[09:18] Marissa: Oh, my gosh.

[09:19] Joanne: 74058.

[09:20] Marissa: So I did not realize because it's been a long time since I've looked at any of the metrics. I had no idea that we were there. That's amazing.

[09:29] Joanne: Yeah.

[09:29] Marissa: High fives.

[09:31] Joanne: High fives.

[09:33] Marissa: So I wanted to talk before we talk too much about the book, because to me, the podcast, yes, of course, the book is kind of coming out of the podcast, and I love that. But they are feeling like two very different accomplishments. And for me, like, having the podcast and this just incredible run that we've had, you know, I want to just take a moment to really embrace that before we go into the talk of the book. And I thought it'd be fun or maybe. Actually, I don't even know if this was originally my note or your note. Um, but just to talk a minute about some of the things that we learned from the podcast or some of, like, the great things that came up because we've done this.

[10:14] Joanne: You want me to go first?

[10:15] Marissa: Well, I can. I don't know. I felt like I said it and so then I should breathe for a.

[10:19] Joanne: Second and like, you go ahead and breathe. So what I was going to say. So I got so many tips and tricks, like, even little things that aren't even conscious in my head anymore, but things that I've totally applied to my own writing. It's hard to even quantify stuff like that. And also books I may not have heard of otherwise, which I think was. Your original plan was to being originally a pandemic project was to get the word out about especially debuts who were going to miss out on all the publicity. So, I mean, for that, it's been a huge boon, I think, to a lot of authors that wouldn't have gotten, you know, that sort of press. But most importantly for me, I learned that I'm not alone in a lot of things about being a writer. You know, we sit at home, we clickety clack at the keyboard, and a lot of publishing is so hard and so lonely, and it feels insurmountable, and it feels like, you know, everybody else out there is so successful and why am I not? And, you know, learning stories and that everybody has a different journey. And becoming published can happen in so many millions of different ways. But we're really all coming from the same place of just wanting to write and tell our stories. And it's. I think that sort of feeling of community was the biggest thing that I got from it, for sure.

[11:53] Marissa: Yeah. No, when I was giving this some thought, I really came to a very similar realization. Well, the first thing that I thought was, well, I learned how to speed read thanks to this podcast because I am historically not a fast reader, but this kind of forced me to become a fast reader. If anyone out there was ever wondering, does Marissa actually read every single book? Yes. Yes, I have read every single book that we have talked about here on the podcast.

[12:24] Joanne: Well, and I think that's obvious in every episode, too.

[12:27] Marissa: I mean, I certainly hope so. Yeah.

[12:30] Joanne: Yeah. Your questions come from a place of, you know, you did this and how did it work? And, yeah, it's totally obvious.

[12:37] Marissa: Yeah, but. No, but. But more than that. Much more than that. I really come away from it feeling like how similar we as authors are. And it was amazing to me how, just like you were saying, every author has their own unique backstory, their own unique journey. We talk a lot about differences in writing process, processes that we have, and yet there was always also so much overlap. You kind of hear the same challenges coming up over and over again, or you hear similarities in how we tend to think about story or how we tend to think about character or the emotions that we go through during the writing process or when a book is coming out. And I just came away from that thinking, like, yes, we are all so different in so many ways, but. But we're also so very much the same. And it really kind of solidified for me why I think it's important to have a community of writers and, you know, just to find people who really get you and get what it is that you're going through. And also, just like, every time you meet another writer, you can just feel like, this is a person that I already immediately have such a deep connection with, and I understand them in this really of strange and specific way, and I just think that's really cool.

[14:04] Joanne: Yeah, it's totally a community of, you know, fellow writers and friends we just haven't met yet.

[14:11] Marissa: Yeah, no, it really does feel that way. And then for me, it's been special. Once Covid, like, the. The COVID restrictions relaxed and we started doing events again. For me, getting to go to some of these book festivals or, you know, different conferences and meeting people that I had interviewed on the podcast but had never yet before met in real life. But then you meet them, and it feels like I already knew them. It was just like, we're. We're already friends. We've already shared something, and that was really special for. For me, too.

[14:49] Joanne: And then I have to say, too, that everybody that came on the podcast was so gracious, not just with their time, but their, you know, their vulnerabilities and sharing. And I mean, it just goes to show that writers are, you know, we wear our hearts on our sleeves and put them on the page. But it's just, it's so nice to see such a welcoming, friendly and supportive community.

[15:17] Marissa: Yeah. And gosh, I mean, I just feel like the writing community in general, or at least you and I both coming from kidlit middle grade and ya. I've always felt that way from the beginning. And I've heard that it's not maybe so much in some other genres that you don't get quite that strong community vibe, but certainly in kid lit you do.

[15:38] Joanne: Yeah. And I think because it's a smaller community as well.

[15:41] Marissa: Yeah.

[15:42] Joanne: And I don't know, I think kid lit authors have even more empathy than grownups. We still have sort of that optimism and innocence about us that, you know, we just want everybody to be successful and happy for the most part. I mean, not to say there isn't some competition and, you know, but. Yeah, I've always thought that too.

[16:05] Marissa: Yeah. And I do actually, I want to maybe tweak that since I've heard that it's similar in romance as well, is another genre where there seems to be just like a ton, a huge outpouring of support for each other. How about any. Any favorite, like standout moments as relate to the podcast? Anything come to your mind for that?

[16:26] Joanne: So, funny thing. So talking about building on when you said meeting people in person and you feel like already friends. So I was digging up, I think the contact information for MK Lobby. This is I guess a few years ago and near me, I live in a tiny town and the last name Lob is very prominent where I am. There's, I think a town council person and a real estate office is the last name is Lob. And you know, I think there's a member of parliament that's Lob. So I'm like, hmm, I wonder if this person is local. And after doing some digging, I found out she was local. So we actually met and went out for breakfast a couple times. So that came out of the podcast. So thank you for that.

[17:14] Marissa: I love that. I actually have a similar story. The first time I ever spoke with Arne Flores was on this podcast. And we learned in that I don't know if it was like on the recording or if it was before or after the recording, but she, she's local and lives actually like really close, really close to me. And now she's become one of my best friends and we like hang out together all the time. And our kids play together, and it's great. And it's. Yeah. If I hadn't had the podcast, I don't know if we would have made that connection.

[17:45] Joanne: Kismet.

[17:46] Marissa: Ah, totally.

[17:49] Joanne: And I think as far as favorite moments. Oh, there have been so many, over 224 + this one episodes. And I'm going to be totally biased here and say that, like, my favorite episode is with Gabby and Rebecca.

[18:04] Marissa: I knew you were going to say that. I knew.

[18:07] Joanne: I know, I know. Our audiobook narrators for Let It Glow. It was just so. And my only sad thing about that episode is that it wasn't six hours long in a bar where we could just hang out and be friends, all four of us. So that was so fun.

[18:23] Marissa: That was a really, really fun one. Fun to record. And I remember I was in an Airbnb and so I was, like, in this really strange little attic room, like, hunched over my computer doing it. But still, such a good memory.

[18:37] Joanne: Yeah. And it's. We learned so much too, about.

[18:40] Marissa: Yeah, no, it was fascinating.

[18:42] Joanne: Yeah. Yeah, really fascinating.

[18:45] Marissa: So I. It would be absolutely impossible for me to, like, choose a favorite guest or a favorite interview or a favorite book. Like, there's just so many. But I definitely feel that for me, some of the. The moments not in the podcast itself, but some of the things that have stood out as most meaningful to me is when I've been at an event or a book signing and had someone come up to me in the signing line and say that they're a listener. And I've had people say, like, this, this podcast, it got me, you know, over the hump. And it gave me the courage that I needed to finish the draft or to query or it, you know, kept me going during my submission process or. Like, I've just heard so many wonderful things and so much great feedback from people who didn't just enjoy listening to it, but really felt that it had helped them either craft wise or, you know, emotionally going through their own writing journey. And so that. That, that's just like, that's the gold. That's what you're going for all the time. And that made me really happy.

[19:50] Joanne: Yeah. That is totally everything.

[19:53] Marissa: That's.

[19:53] Joanne: Oh, that's awesome. I'm glad you get that kind of feedback.

[19:56] Marissa: Oh, me too. Me too. Um, so if someone's listening to this and you ever meet either me or Joanne in person, don't be shy. We love hearing those stories.

[20:05] Joanne: I don't think there's an author alive that doesn't hear that they had an impact.

[20:09] Marissa: Oh, it's so special. It really.

[20:11] Joanne: Yeah, yeah.

[20:12] Marissa: Makes you feel like you're not just, like, screaming into a vacuum all the time.

[20:16] Joanne: Exactly. Yes.

[20:17] Marissa: What about some things that you. That we are going to miss, Slash? Maybe some things that we're not gonna miss. Hmm.

[20:28] Joanne: What am I gonna. I don't think there's anything that I won't miss.

[20:34] Marissa: I think you're lying. You're not. You're not. You're gonna miss, like, doing the. Putting together the social media prompts and, like. No, you're still gonna be doing that for a little while.

[20:44] Joanne: Yeah, well, I'm. I'm still gonna be doing that for a while. I really like making graphics in Canva, so that's fun for me.

[20:53] Marissa: What about having to hound Deke to finish the audio editing?

[20:57] Joanne: Well, see, I wasn't gonna bring that up, because he's gonna hear this when he goes to edit it, and he'll get caught.

[21:02] Marissa: He can choose if he wants to edit it out or not.

[21:05] Joanne: He won't. He won't edit it out. Yeah. You know what? I mean? Everything else is. I don't think I'll miss anything. It's. You know, it's been a labor of love for you. More on stage, but it's also been a labor of love for me, too. I mean, yeah, it's been a lot of fun. And, you know, as far as things I will miss, and this is gonna totally sound sappy, but, you know, it's our last episode. Whatever. I'm gonna miss your happy and optimistic voice. Every week. It's. And it feels like eavesdropping on a conversation between authors at a writers conference. And, you know, I can always find a little something in every single episode that I can take away. And it keeps me inspired and feeling like I can do this. And, you know, it's. Even though I'm technically working on the episodes, I'm benefiting from it as a writer, too, so I'm gonna miss that a lot. And you know what? When you mentioned before at the top of this episode that you narrated the Happy Writer audiobook, I'm gonna get myself an audio copy and listen to it, because I think. Bring me back to here and listening to your voice because your optimism and positivity. I think we need more of that.

[22:24] Marissa: Well, thank you. And I. I hope that it continues to bring the same. The same joy for sure. I. What am I gonna miss? I'm gonna miss. I mean, I guess we've kind of already talked about this, but just getting to meet new authors every week. And part of the reason that I started this podcast way back when Covid was just getting off the ground was because I, I knew the world is shutting down. I'm going to be missing all these opportunities to see my people out in the world. And I get so much inspiration and just like motivation from meeting and talking to other writers. There's nothing quite like that jolt of energy when someone is talking about their process or their successes or their struggles, the things that they've overcome, that makes you, or at least makes me walk away from those conversations and think, I can do this. And I want to get back to my own projects and my own goals now. So it's the whole time that's one of the things that I've just loved. Getting to talk to other authors, becoming just like instant friends with so many of them, but also just that rush of inspiration that it gives me creatively to then get back to work on my own projects.

[23:42] Joanne: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm a total introvert, but I love writing conferences for the same reason. It's like a power shot to the inspiration. Totally. And this felt, even from the very beginning, it felt just like that as well.

[23:57] Marissa: Yeah. Another thing I'm gonna miss is when I have an interview coming up like later today or the next day. And so I have a built in excuse to ignore everything else and just read a book. It's been so great. Like, no, I'm sorry, I can't do the dishes. I'm interviewing this author tomorrow. I need to sit here and read.

[24:18] Joanne: Well, and I was going to ask you if you're going to. How your TBR is going to change and if you're going to feel at sea of I don't have stuff lined up to read, you know, it will be interesting.

[24:30] Marissa: And I actually, I had my first experience just yesterday where I had finished recording Jamie and Tricia, our last two guests that we had here, and was gonna read a book and thought, oh, I have choices, I don't have to just jump into the next podcast book. And it was kind of a weird feeling, I'm not gonna lie. But as every book lover out there, I have an entire bookshelf of TBR books and I'm honestly kind of excited to the freedom to pick and choose and to read just whatever I feel like reading at any given time. So that's something that I, I guess I'm not gonna miss that feeling like I have to always be reading the next podcast book.

[25:18] Joanne: Yeah, it's, it's A weird kind of freedom.

[25:21] Marissa: Yes. Yes.

[25:23] Joanne: Yeah, I'm. I'm going on a cruise shortly, and I'm like, oh, I can take whatever I want to read. It's very exciting.

[25:34] Marissa: It is very exciting. It is very exciting. And I also. Even though I always tried to give myself plenty of time to read books, there are certainly times where I'm, you know, falling behind, and suddenly I have to kind of rush through a book or, like, speed read the last hundred pages so that I. I know how it ends before the interview. And I don't really like that. I'm much more. I prefer to read slowly. I prefer to immerse myself. So even though I can do it, I'd ra. So that's another thing that I'm not going to miss is having to quickly finish something because I've got an interview coming up.

[26:10] Joanne: Yeah. And some of those books are big.

[26:12] Marissa: I know, I know. I loved in our scheduling document, at one point, Joanne started, like, she created a column and started putting in the page counts of books. I was like, you nudging to Marissa, like, pay attention, Marissa. Please don't book yourself for four. Big fan in a row.

[26:31] Joanne: Well, it's nice that they put those page numbers, like, on the arcs and stuff, so you know. You know what you're getting into, because sometimes you just get the digital file. Right. And you don't know.

[26:41] Marissa: Yeah, it is helpful. It is helpful.

[26:45] Joanne: So, bit more about the book.

[26:47] Marissa: Yeah.

[26:49] Joanne: So I know you started the book before the podcast. It was sort of. Yeah, it was sort of a. I don't want to say bare bones, but it was. It was drafty. Right. So how did it change after you started doing the podcast?

[27:04] Marissa: Yeah, so you're right. I had written the first draft in 2019, so obviously months before COVID happened and months before we decided to start the podcast. And then I kind of set it aside for a couple of years and focused more on the podcast and on my other writing projects. And so then when I took it out and dusted it off, I think by that point, what I wanted the book to be had changed significantly. The first draft was very focused on productivity, on kind of all of the. Cause I love books on productivity. And so the book was really focused on word count and how to, like, keep up with your deadlines and this sort of thing. And that is still in the book. Like, my. My favorite tips for how to get lots of words written and how to stay inspired and fight against, like, the. The feeling of when you just don't feel like writing. How do you fight against that and write anyway? But having done the podcast, it really switched my focus to kind of just an overall how to bring joy into our writing lives from the moment that you get an idea to the moment a book is on bookshelves. Like, how can you make that first draft more enjoyable? How can you make working with an editor more enjoyable? And so that kind of really helped me focus what it was that I was trying to say and kind of became the thesis statement for the book. So that, yes, there's some craft stuff. Yes, there's some, you know, just kind of general life advice stuff, but really, the book is. Every single section is about how can we be happier writers. And I remember you, Joanne, had read that first draft way back when, and there was a comment that you had made when you gave feedback on it. And I don't remember exactly your words, but something along the lines of, but, but where is your voice in this, Marissa? What is your perspective? Because so much of that early draft had just been kind of regurgitating a lot of the tips and tricks that I'd learned from following other, like, personal development experts. And so I really took that to heart and really aimed to think, okay, but this is the advice. But what is my advice? Where is my heart in this? Yeah. And so it kind of. It changed a ton. It became a very different book, but in a way that I'm really, really proud of.

[29:57] Joanne: That's so funny. And I don't remember saying that, but it sounds like something I might say. And I do remember bits and pieces of that original draft. And it's so funny you say that because I had written down notes here about the book saying that I'm not normally a craft kind of person. Craft book kind of person, but this book is so on brand for you, and your optimism and encouraging voice is on every page. So mission accomplished.

[30:30] Marissa: I hope so. I will say my editor, early on in my editor's feedback, you know, she'd mentioned that, you know, Marissa, let's just be aware that when this book comes out, we're gonna get some amount of criticism from the naysayers and the pessimists. And there's gonna be people who, you know, just see this book as, you know, too rosy, too optimistic. And not everyone has such a rosy perspective. And so she was like, it's great, and the world needs this, but let's be prepared for that reality. And so I am. I am prepared. And I really hope that wherever someone falls on the spectrum of Glass Half Empty or Glass Half Full that there are really actionable practical tips that everyone can take away from the book and use in their writing and use in their writing life. But I know that I am a cheery person and that can rub some people the wrong way. So it is what it is. I can't change it.

[31:36] Joanne: Well, and nor should you. And you know what? I was reading the introduction of it this morning to prepare for talking about it and you mentioned that in the introduction that it may not be for everybody because you are an optimistic person, but the thing is you also sort of temper that with the struggle you had with Renegades. And so somebody reading that is going to realize, oh, Marissa Meyer charmed life. That's not how it is. I mean, just because you're optimistic and have a great positive outlook doesn't mean you haven't struggled. I mean, people will identify with that. And you know, the older I get, the less I'm okay with negativity. I just, there's enough negativity out in the world. I want more positivity in my life. And if somebody else doesn't like it, well, they can go to the glass half empty bar and, you know, wallow in their sorrows. So I think the world can always use more positivity. And you've, you're generous with yours and giving it out and you know, if it's not for somebody, then yeah, no.

[32:43] Marissa: Not every book is for every person. And I definitely recognize that. And I'm with you. I think every chance we have to put more positivity out there, let's take it.

[32:53] Joanne: Yeah. So what is it you hope that writers will take from the book? Is there any sort of overreaching big thesis that you want people to walk away with?

[33:03] Marissa: I am trying hard to fight against the stereotype that I think most of us grow up with. This idea that art has to come from a place of pain or struggle or that writers and creative people are, were depressed or were alcoholics or, you know, the. Just that that idea that you can't, you have to take it so seriously. And if you're not taking it so seriously or you're not suffering in some way, then you cannot possibly be creating anything worthwhile. And I have a million problems with that. Even though I think that it's very pervasive or has been very pervasive in our society. And so that's probably the biggest thing that I'm trying to say that no, I am a very happy, creative person. And honestly, I think that I am a better writer when I am in a good place mentally and emotionally. So, yeah, that's probably the biggest thing.

[34:09] Joanne: Yeah, for sure. And that's totally relatable. I mean, when you think back to the beginning of the pandemic and all those people that were like, oh, I'm shut down, and I always wanted to write a book if I only had the time and all so many creatives were like, I have the time. I can't do it. I'm too stressed. You know, it was months and months. I know a lot well, for myself and friends who couldn't write at the beginning of the pandemic because it was just doom and gloom and stress. And, you know, I'm with you. I come from a place where I'm better if I'm in a good headspace. And not to say you can't take your past traumas and pain and channel them into a book, but I think that's different. I think putting that emotion into a book from a lived experience is different than feeling like you have to be suffering 247 to be an effective writer. I think that's agreed.

[35:09] Marissa: Agreed. 100%.

[35:11] Joanne: I mean, just look at all the fun and joy we had writing Let It Glow.

[35:15] Marissa: I do.

[35:17] Joanne: That came from a place of being determined to have tons of fun during the process and for the reader to take from the other end. So, yeah, yeah.

[35:27] Marissa: No. And I really think and hope that that comes through in. In the final book, too. I think. I think that people read it and are like, these authors really seem like they had a good time.

[35:38] Joanne: For sure. Yeah. And so each chapter, just to get a little deeper into the nitty gritty of it, I mean, there's. There's a great roadmap at the beginning of it, and if anybody's thinking of getting it but they're not sure what they're getting into, there are samples online. Like, you can. You can look at the table of contents and the introduction and stuff. But one of the things I think is great about it is that each chapter starts with a quote from the podcast. You want to talk about that a little?

[36:08] Marissa: Yes. And I'm just going to go ahead and give you credit because so after I record an episode, Joanne's husband Deke does our audio editing. And then Joanne listens to it, and she. From that, she creates our show notes and also records great quotes that were said in the episode by our guests. And we started doing this from day one to use those quotes in social media. Well, thank heavens we did, because then we had just this incredible resource of wonderful Smart, wise, brilliant things, these little gems that our guests had said during the interviews. And so with Joanne's help, I was able to mine through all of that and find a quote that relates to what I'm talking about in every chapter. And I don't. There's something like 80 chapters. Like, they're short. They tend to be kind of short and sweet chapters, but there's a lot of them. And being able to have that connection to the podcast and to all of these great authors, that really inspired me and just had such smart things to say, it was a really fun way to give a nod back to the podcast.

[37:26] Joanne: And each one of them also references which episode it's from. So if anybody's inspired by that little. What do they call them? Epigraphs. Like the beginning of a chapter?

[37:38] Marissa: I think so, yeah. Epigrapher sounds. Right.

[37:41] Joanne: They can go and find that episode and listen to it too.

[37:44] Marissa: Yeah.

[37:45] Joanne: So along with the book and the audiobook, you also have some downloadables that are available on your website. I'm trying to remember what was there. So there was some recipes and some lists of ideas. What else?

[38:03] Marissa: There's my revision checklist that I use when I revise a book. Yeah, the recipes for plowing through a hard writing day. Oh, the playlist.

[38:17] Joanne: Playlist. Copywriter dance off playlist Resources, Further reading. A sample inspiration list. All free downloads on your website. And they're actually on the Happy Writer Books page on your website. Yeah.

[38:32] Marissa: And that really came back because all of that content will be in the book. But when we were recording the audiobook, there are some things that just don't work in an audiobook. Like, I'm not going to sit here and read the ingredient list and the steps for doing a recipe, like, how do you make my grandma's deviled eggs? And so we just decided, let's not put those things in the audiobook, but make them available so that audiobook listeners can still have access to them. Which means that now everybody gets to have access to them. And like Joanne said, they're just on the website. Marissamyer.com under the Happy Writer Books page. I think you scroll down to the bottom and there they are.

[39:17] Joanne: Yeah. And just a reminder, too, that all of the episodes of the podcast will stay up indefinitely so people can return to them again and again at their leisure.

[39:28] Marissa: Forever and ever and ever.

[39:31] Joanne: Forever and ever. Yes. And like you mentioned earlier in the episode, we're gonna continue on with the social media. So just as a reminder to people or for anybody who's New. We have sort of theme days there. So Tuesdays are new books. So any new books by past guests that come out, we highlight as many, as many as we can, we go looking. And then on Wednesdays, I usually put up a writing prompt. Thursdays are a throwback to a past episode. Fridays are kind of like a happy weekend post and asking people what they're reading for the weekend. Saturday, I usually put up a famous quote about writing or books or, you know, something inspiring. And Sunday I ask people questions about books, reading, writing, whatever. So hopefully you follow along and find that engaging.

[40:25] Marissa: I just thought of one more thing that I'm going to miss is having that automatic social media post every Monday. I know exactly what I have to post about because I have a new episode up this Monday. Now I have a hole in my schedule. What am I going to post about on Mondays?

[40:42] Joanne: What are you going to do on Mondays?

[40:45] Marissa: I don't know. Coming up. A social media post can be hard.

[40:48] Joanne: Yes, yes. It can be challenging. Maybe like a first line or something. Like something you're working on?

[40:56] Marissa: Yeah, no, that would be good. Just like little updates about whatever I'm working on at the moment. But that can get difficult because so often we're not really allowed to say too much about what we're working on.

[41:06] Joanne: Or, you know, pictures of goats. Who doesn't love pictures of goats?

[41:16] Marissa: Oh, that's funny.

[41:20] Joanne: So that's a reminder. And also, we haven't talked about a giveaway.

[41:25] Marissa: The giveaway, of course, if you've got some stuff away. I love giving stuff away.

[41:31] Joanne: If you've gotten this far in the episode, guess what? We're having a giveaway. So the link for the giveaway is in the link tree and will be in the show notes. And what we're giving away is. Do you want to share?

[41:47] Marissa: If I remember correctly, I think we're doing 10 signed copies of the Happy Writer and then, was it 15, I believe, 15 swag packs?

[42:02] Joanne: Yes. So the signed copies of the Happy Writer plus a bit of swag, right? Oh, yeah, Always swag for us and Canadian addresses and for international listeners and friends and writers. Fifteen international swag packs.

[42:18] Marissa: Yeah. Well, I think those swag packs can be. It'll be both a mix international and local. And we do have. I'm just going to say I've got. I had wonderful, amazing Taylor Denali, who has done our swag in merchandise from the beginning. She designed up the cutest little Happy Writer stickers and postcards. And so, just FYI, it's some good swag Some good swag happening.

[42:42] Joanne: Yeah, we always have good swag.

[42:44] Marissa: I try. I do try.

[42:46] Joanne: So that's all the notes I have. Any other reflections on the past 224 episodes or the book or anything you want listeners to know?

[42:56] Marissa: Well, you know what? What? I. The last thing that I kind of want to end with is some really big thank yous. And I'm going to start with you, Joanne. Thank you for joining me today, but also thank you just for being my partner in crime with this podcast. You do so much, from scheduling and making graphics and writing our show notes and running the social media and talking me out of some of my ludicrous ideas. When you're like Marissa, that's going to take up way too much of your time. What are you doing? And it has been a lot, I know, to put on your plate these last few years, but it's been such an amazing journey. And honestly, I never, ever would have made it into 225 episodes without you. So thank you for just being with me on this.

[43:51] Joanne: Well, thank you for bringing me along for the ride. I still remember the day that you came to me and said, hey, I'm thinking of doing this podcast. Not sure if I can do it without you. Would you be interested? And of course, I was on board. And it's been a great ride for me, too. I've learned a lot and I've gotten to know you so much better. And you know, you know I love you. So this has been just a labor of love and I appreciate you trusting me with it. So thank you. And Deke thanks you, too. He appreciates it as well.

[44:23] Marissa: Well, I love you, too. And of course, I have to say thank you to Deke, who took over the audio editing here. I don't two, three years ago. And that made an enormous difference because that was always my least favorite thing about doing the podcast. And it. It has really been such a huge help and he does such an incredible job. So thank you, Deke, as well. And thank you to all of our phenomenal guests who have taken their time to share their stories and their wisdom with us and our listeners over the years. And also thanks to their publicists who tend to do a lot of the heavy lifting when it comes to scheduling and whatnot. Thanks to our wonderful sponsors who have helped cover some of our costs of editing and hosting and running these giveaways. Lastly, I want to thank our listeners. There is no way that we would have gotten this far if it wasn't for you. And just the incredible feedback that we've heard and knowing how many of you were out there looking forward to listening to us every Monday, it really has meant a lot. And I'm so grateful for the support that you've shown and sharing it with other writers and it really just has made this an incredible, incredible journey.

[45:45] Joanne: Yeah. Very validating, Valen. Valendating.

[45:48] Marissa: Valentating.

[45:49] Joanne: Valen. It's been very valid. I did it again. Deke, you're earning your living here. Yeah, it's been very validating. 474,000 odd times. It's been validating.

[46:05] Marissa: Incredible. Just incredible.

[46:06] Joanne: Awesome. Thank you so much. Marissa, you're awesome.

[46:09] Marissa: Thank you. Joanne, you're awesome, too.

[46:12] Joanne: Thank you.

[46:13] Marissa: As always, readers, you can of course check out the Happy Writer book along with all the books from our past guests on our affiliate store@bookshop.org shop Marissa Meyer. And you will continue to find our merchandise on Etsy. It has been an absolute joy talking writing, publishing, craft and life with you, our listeners, and my fellow authors these past almost five years. All 225 episodes will stay up indefinitely, as Joanne mentioned. And I really hope that you will continue to return to your favorite episodes when you need a dose of inspiration or a boost of encouragement or some helpful craft tips. So thank you for being a part of our journey for the last time. Stay inspired, keep writing and whatever life throws at you today. I hope that you're feeling a little bit happier.