Rohil Jethmalani ~ Yoga, Karma & Focus: Ancient Wisdom for Modern Life

Rohil Jethmalani is an esteemed yoga instructor and meditation practitioner, currently residing in Bali, Indonesia. His journey in yoga began during his upbringing in India, where he was influenced by his yoga-practicing parents. Rohil holds a deep connection with various styles of yoga, including Hatha, Iyengar, and Ashtanga Vinyasa. Apart from asana, he has a profound experience in Vipassana meditation in the tradition of S.N. Goenka. As an educator, Rohil has taught at yoga teacher trainings around the world, sharing his knowledge of yoga philosophy and yoga history. Today, he runs Ashtanga retreats in Bali, blending personal development and yoga practices for a holistic experience.

Visit Rohil at: https://shivatman.yoga/

On IG: https://www.instagram.com/shivatman.yoga/?hl=en

Key Takeaways:

• Rohil's Journey: Rohil shares his transition from a childhood steeped in yoga practice to being a renowned yoga instructor in Bali, intertwining his personal and professional evolution with yoga.
• Yoga Philosophy in Modern Life: Discussions center on how traditional yoga philosophies, like the five kleshas, can be introduced and integrated into contemporary understanding while maintaining their depth and authenticity.
• The Role of Technology in Yoga: Rohil speculates about how AI and technology may impact yoga teaching, highlighting the irreplaceable value of personal connections and experiential learning.
• Karma and Action: Rohil elaborates on karma, emphasizing its intrinsic manifestation in the actions themselves rather than a delayed cosmic reward or punishment.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Rohil Jethmalani's Journey From India to Bali
• 1:48 Rohil Jethmalani's Journey Through Yoga and Meditation Practices
• 5:06 Challenges for Foreign Yoga Teachers in Bali Post-Covid
• 7:05 xploring Yoga Niches and Teaching Experiences in Bali and Goa
• 13:22 Introducing Yoga Philosophy Through Relatable Concepts and Personal Experience
• 24:20 Understanding Karma as an Internal Law of Action
• 33:31 Harnessing Attention for Deeper Yoga Practice Amidst Distractions
• 40:36 Understanding Shiva and Atman in Personal Identity
• 44:20 A Wedding in Pune Sparks a Desire for Parenthood
• 49:02 The Joy and Challenges of Raising Children in Today's World
• 51:22 AI, Yoga, and the Future of Human Creativity
• 57:34 Harnessing Creativity and Focus in a Digital Age
• 1:06:45 Optimism and Parenting in Today's World

Transcript

Todd McLaughlin: 0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage, bodywork and beyond. Follow us at @nativeyoga and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin. Welcome to Native Yoga Todd cast. My name is Todd McLaughlin, and this week, my special guest is Rohil Jethmalani, and he can be found on his website,

https: 1:18

//www.purnayogabali.com/ also follow him on Instagram,@shivatman.yoga, and definitely go check him on YouTube. He's got some great videos and a plethora of information to share at Shivatman yoga. The links are in the description, and I really enjoyed this opportunity to meet Rohil. He's based in Indonesia on the island of Bali, and he's steeped in the yoga history, philosophy, culture and practice, and he has a very sweet down to earth nature. I really enjoyed talking with him, and I hope that you learned something from this episode. I feel like he shares some great points. He's got his finger on the pulse in relation to where we are currently in the world, and his optimism and positivity, I think, is absolutely essential for our personal development and growth. So please let us know what you think. Send us a message, an email, comment here, there, wherever. And we really appreciate your support. Have a wonderful day. All right, let's begin. I feel honored and grateful to have Rohil Jethmalani here today with me on the podcast. Rohil, thank you so much for joining me.

Rohil Jethmalani: 2:35

Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here. Oh man, I

Todd McLaughlin: 2:39

found you on YouTube. Your YouTube channel is incredible. Everyone listening. Can check you out. I have the links in the description, and I saw that you're teaching currently in Indonesia, in Bali. Can you tell me a little bit about what Bali life is like currently,

Unknown: 2:59

Bali, life is good. I came here in back first time in 2018 and then I came here to settle down, kind of in 2019 just before the pandemic hit a few months before, and that was also around the time I met my partner, my now my wife, and so it kind of Bali pulled me in. I just came to teach at a yoga teacher training school. But eventually it just sort of happened that I stayed back and I've now made my life

Todd McLaughlin: 3:28

here. Wow, that's so cool, man, it's a beautiful island. Where are you from? Originally?

Unknown: 3:34

I'm from India. So I was born in Mumbai, and brought up pretty much most of my life in Pune, which is another big city close by to Mumbai.

Todd McLaughlin: 3:45

Yes, amazing. I have had a chance to be go to Mumbai. It's an amazing city, full of life, full of energy. Did did you What style or what was your experience growing up with your what is your memory of coming across yoga, and how was yoga portrayed to you as a youngster?

Unknown: 4:09

So both my parents are yoga practitioners, and that was my first contact with yoga. Was they had a teacher that would come over in their neighborhood and would be teaching classes in different friends houses, and they would pull me along for those classes. So at the time, of course, I didn't really know why, why I was there. I just wanted to be outside playing cricket or football with my friends, and didn't really want to be practicing these breathing techniques or doing these practices, but I think it had quite a profound impact on me, which I didn't realize at that time. And then I rediscovered yoga for myself when I was in university. So when I did my bachelor's, which was in India, I was. Staying at a hostel, and my roommate, he hurt his back, so he was, he was basically doing yoga classes, and had this book, big book, which he was of different yoga sequences that he was practicing regularly. And so he was doing his practice every morning. And so I said, Okay, I should join you. And I kind of joined him along and would look at his sequences. And that was how yoga came back to me on my own. And then since, since that time, it's kind of been a daily practice ever since,

Todd McLaughlin: 5:32

very cool, amazing. What main styles have influenced your current practice?

Unknown: 5:41

So I have practiced. So I began with, of course, Hatha. That was my the style my parents also practicing. I've also practiced iyengar yoga for a while, and then when I got into it by myself, I really got into Ashtanga vinyasa. So that was my predominant self practice for a long time, I've also done a lot of meditation, lot of silence, Vipassana meditation. So it's kind of today, I would say it's a mixture of Ashtanga and Hatha, from the asana perspective of yoga and meditation, Vipassana and a few other styles. Yeah,

Todd McLaughlin: 6:23

amazing in your Vipassana practice was that under the lineage of Goenka or under a different school? Yeah, under Goenka, amazing. So you have, you sat several 10 day courses.

Unknown: 6:38

I've sat a few 10 day courses, I think four in total. And I've tried as much as possible like I don't, I don't have it as a daily practice where I do two hours of sitting a day. I I don't have the time and the bandwidth for it, but I try to sit at least a half an hour every day. Yeah, I

Todd McLaughlin: 6:57

agree. Rohil, that's a challenging routine to follow, one hour in the morning, one hour in the evening, and then also, I'm guessing, like you said, you have a hatha yoga practice as well. So that could consume quite a few, quite a few hours in the day. I hear you. That's, yeah,

Unknown: 7:15

it kind of stacks up. You know, you want to do some breathing exercises. And, just like you don't have any social life anymore if you want to work. Yeah,

Todd McLaughlin: 7:27

good point. Can you can tell me what a little bit what it was like transitioning to Bali. Do you feel like Bali is very welcoming to the International Yoga community, or do you feel like you have to work really hard to be able to make it work in in Bali?

Unknown: 7:50

So I think I was very lucky when I came because I was, I initially came to Bali because I was offered a job. So it was, it wasn't like I came to Bali looking for work, yeah, and this was first in 2018 I came to do a couple of trainings. And then in 2019 today, I would say that Bali is very different from the Bali I arrived six years ago. Today. It's kind of it's much more competitive as a yoga teacher, and also from the you said about the feeling welcome, I think that the balconies are much more open to outsiders coming and working here and running businesses here back then. And I think that has kind of changed post covid And the whole boom, especially with the new government that has come in to Indonesia last year, at the end of last year, they are kind of cracking down quite a bit more on foreigner teachers. They want to replace foreigner teachers with local teachers. That's their kind of aim and their goal, and it's understandable, yeah. So it's not as welcoming as it was six, seven years ago to come here and establish a career here. Oh

Todd McLaughlin: 9:08

so interesting. I can imagine. I get it. That's cool. Do you feel, though, because you have history with yoga, being from India, that that helps to make that a little bit easier.

Unknown: 9:27

I think definitely, if you have a particular skill, which is more than just teaching, being able to teach a good yoga class itself, especially specific knowledge, whether it's in anatomy, it's in yoga, philosophy or history, or it's leading people through meditation, you know, particular technique, I think those, those are the kind of niches that do really well, yeah. Also, if you kind of people who merge together two different. Things. I think Bali is a place where there's a lot of experimentation with especially people who come to do yoga here, whether they are on holiday or they're just here for a couple of months, they're looking for something which is different from what their yoga studios back home offer. So if you can, for example, you you can merge sound healing and some other modality, or any, any two or three modalities, in a new, creative way. I think that's what really works here in Bali.

Todd McLaughlin: 10:30

Very cool. What has been your niche? Rohil, where do you feel like you've which direction do you gravitate toward in relation to providing something that you feel is very valuable to your guests.

Unknown: 10:50

So because for a long period of time, my self practice was focused primarily on Ashtanga, and my wife also, she is also an Ashtanga practitioner. And so we thought that that's a niche to look at, especially because there was no resident Ashtanga retreats in Bali. Lot of people, of course, teachers, come from all over the world and have retreats here. So that's kind of where we went with and we wanted to also focus quite a bit on personal development. So we have our retreats are mainly Ashtanga and personal development. So we help individuals establish strong good habits, focusing on free expression and communication. And you know, basically it's a mixture of Ayurveda, yoga philosophy and all these topics as well.

Todd McLaughlin: 11:45

Yes, yes. Amazing. Can you talk a little bit about your approach when you work with a group versus when you work one on one? Do you gravitate toward one or the other? Teaching or, you know, information transmission environments better than another.

Unknown: 12:07

So I would say that I have more experience in group settings, especially because I started teaching in yoga teacher trainings back in 2017 so I was teaching in Goa for a couple of years, and it's pretty much like these teacher training schools. I would one month be with one group, and then that group would go back and a new group would start with the next month. So it was just month after month, and essentially teaching yoga. I love teaching yoga philosophy, yoga history, but I can talk for hours on those subjects, and I think that my that was mainly the in a group setting of 1520, 30 people sometimes. And then when I came to Bali, it was the same. And my one on one, the one on one setting, I love working one on one, because I can really get to know somebody much more deeply than in a group setting. And I can, I can really see how I can give them very individually tailored advice, or, you know, come to the crux of what they're dealing with in a group, which I can't do in a group setting. And so, but earlier, one on one for me was just something which I would do if somebody requested me. And usually some student would come up to me and say, Hey, do you do one on one sessions? I would love to have sessions with you. And then, you know, that's how it would it would flow organically. I would never kind of sell them, yeah. And then a couple of years ago, I started to Yeah, started to also focus a bit more on on my one on one offerings, because it's something I can do online as well. I don't have to do it in person, so that, that flexibility I like as well.

Todd McLaughlin: 13:56

Yeah, amazing. When you mentioned teaching and go. I'm curious. Did you ever meet up with or practice Ralph with Ralph naoja cot

Unknown: 14:08

so I have, I know of him, but I never, I've never met him or I didn't practice with him. I was just curious because he passed recently as well. Yeah, yeah,

Todd McLaughlin: 14:21

he's amazing. We had a chance to practice with we had a chance to practice with him and go. It was really amazing experience. I thought maybe you two had had crossed paths, and it was sad when he passed away. That was a tough one did. Were you affiliated with the purple yoga at Goa or a different place.

Unknown: 14:42

So I used to do some sessions for purple Valley. Purple Valley, it was kind of like guest sessions, so like, especially where they had teachers who didn't really teach yoga philosophy, and they had a lot of requests from their students for more. Yoga, philosophy or history, then I would go into to deliver those guest lectures, yeah? But I was teaching at a at a teacher training school called upaya. I don't think it exists anymore, but it was basically like a multi style, 200 hour teacher training, yeah, yeah,

Todd McLaughlin: 15:17

very cool. Can if you let me in the group setting, if you are wanting to introduce yoga philosophy, and you get the sense that the group is relatively new to the wide world of yoga philosophy. What is your favorite place to start,

Unknown: 15:43

I think, with, with a in a group setting, when I start speaking about yoga philosophy, I would start mainly with the five poisons of the mind, the five kleshas, cravings, aversions, the ego, fear and ignorance, because I think it's these are some things that are relatable to everybody, regardless of their background, their context, where they grew up. Everybody has has experienced those things and misery, suffering that results from it. So I think that's how I usually like to introduce or get into the yoga philosophy.

Todd McLaughlin: 16:27

Yeah, that's a really good point that makes sense in the relationship to like a universal concepts that the five kleshas. That doesn't really push too many buttons, if there's different religious background, and what do you agree?

Unknown: 16:46

Yeah, I think it doesn't. And I think ultimately, a lot within the yoga philosophy can be spoken in a way that is acceptable for most religious backgrounds. I would say yes, it's only when we come to things talking about the energy body and the chakras and things like that, where it can get for some people might find it a bit uncomfortable or something like that, yes, but I think most of the philosophy, especially with the Yoga Sutras, it's quite how would you secular? You could call it Yeah, in that sense,

Todd McLaughlin: 17:22

yeah. How do you try to teach and or relate concepts like subtle body or energy body to students that are new to the idea?

Unknown: 17:40

So I initially, so when I speak about the philosophy, I like to go first from the most scientific perspective. And I guess it's just the kind of students that I usually end up teaching yoga philosophy to. So here in Bali, for example, a lot of the teacher trainings that I taught at before this would have people who are primarily younger, people who kind of they dip their legs in yoga, but they don't really have an in depth understanding of any of it. So I try to break it down from the perspective of the nervous system, understanding how the nervous system functions, the endocrine system, our hormonal body, how all of it is interrelated, what stress does to us, what are the hormones involved? How yoga can help with it. And I feel that that first layer of nervous system, then the second layer, I start to get into the gut, and the gut brain connection. So it's more more scientific for in the beginning, and I think that creates a nice foundation where people also gain there's, I guess, in in any form of teaching, a lot of a lot of what a good teacher does is also establish trust, right? That they, they they are an expert on the subject. They know what they're talking about. And I think that talking from a more scientific perspective and language helps establish that trust. And from there, I can move on to other more the subtler aspects, the energy, body, things, which I guess science, you could say science hasn't yet caught up with or there's no apparatus to really break it down, but people are more open to receive that information and knowledge once I have spoken in their vocabulary first or the vocabulary, they are more comfortable. That's

Todd McLaughlin: 19:38

it. That's cool. Rohil, that makes sense. And the way you explain from the different systems in the body in the science realm, makes me think of the koshas, and almost how similar that is, even though the koshas seem to go a little more in the energy world. But. Right? Like, if I can relate to nervous system, endocrine system, digestive system, that, then, if I go to, like, the food body or the rice body, and then the air body and then the mental body, that, that, that's a good point. That makes sense. Yeah, what about when someone says, Rohit, I really want to read a book on yoga. And with your background having you know philosophy study and history study, and if we were to mention this idea of like, dual teachings versus non dual teachings, so maybe yoga sutras versus non dual Shaiva Tantra. How do you feel the kind of layering of the building of information, if it was, if it was related to, like, building a house or a construction site where we got to get the foundation down, then the walls and the roof? Do you think there's a like, a formula that you follow? Or do you feel like each person? Do you try to read each person's personality type and then think which philosophy might be what they already could grasp easily, or to give them something radically different that makes their mind have to work on something new. Do you, do you have any sense about how, how do we do this? How do we, how do we do this? Rohio,

Unknown: 21:33

this, I think I, from that perspective, I'm a bit more like you said, a bit more intuitive to see what, what are the individuals, you know, the individuals characteristics, their makeup, and what are they more attracted to, and give them something that's more down their alley. So usually I would, because also, I feel that if you give them something that blows their mind, a lot of the times, people, when they read something that's really confronts their own belief systems, usually judgment comes in, and they kind of are pushed away. So I I prefer the and as a teacher, also, I'm not so that's my that's my own. You could say character as a teacher is that I like to ease people into things, rather than break into patterns and so on. So I find that if, if they, if there's a smooth entry into the philosophy, it's somehow it creates a positive association rather than a harsh entry. So usually, something that I try to find maybe ask them questions about, what kind of books have they read in the past, what kind of philosophies are they already interested in, what kind of practices or tools call out to them, and then, based on that, I guide them to read in that direction,

Todd McLaughlin: 23:02

yes, yes. Can you think of a aspect of yoga philosophy that has really opened your mind recently, and or is there an element of it that that you're really connecting with currently?

Unknown: 23:20

So I think that it's for me, I've come to this belief or this understanding, now that it's it's a process of of layers and layers kind of peeling away, and my understanding of how things work and what I thought the way things worked is continually being changed and updated. And I've come to the stage where I kind of, I feel that it's not so much the the exact philosophical understanding, especially at an intellectual level, which really helps us to get deeper and deeper, especially after a while. So in the beginning, yes, it does, because it opens us up to this new world within ourselves that we can now begin to explore for ourselves. But after a point, I feel like, at least this is what I'm coming to right now, is that it's it's more about implementing it at the experiential level. And it's not so much about understanding and dissecting it further, or any more once we have a general grasp or depth of philosophy. I think it's more about, how do we bring it into this physical reality, through our habits and our day to day, the way we deal with life and so on. I think then it becomes more about a Darshan, a lived experience of it.

Todd McLaughlin: 24:57

Great point. Rohil, I. Great point that, do you feel like that's easier said than done? Are you finding that actually that's just a natural evolution?

Unknown: 25:12

I think it's always hard to do it at an experiential, practical level, because life doesn't flow linearly, unlike knowledge, which can grow linearly, or, you know, you kind of, you gain insight and that stays with you. It's not like it goes away. But you could start a meditation practice and fall off it, or you could, you could get deeper in a particular aspect of I don't know, asana practice or your breathing practice, and it could be reversed if you don't do it for a while, whereas knowledge is something or wisdom is something that stays with you. So I think that trying to keep that state of mind and knowledge of wisdom is something that is through that experiences is also accumulating or getting refined, because you can speak about, for example, things like craving and aversion or the law of karma and things like this. But the moment you try, through your through your own daily practice, whatever that daily practice might be, to tap into this to this understanding, not just at an intellectual level, but at an experiential level. That's when you you refine that knowledge. You know, in some ways, that wisdom gets sharper.

Todd McLaughlin: 26:41

Yes, amazing. You're right when you, when you brought up the term karma. I recently came across, across the term renunna bandana, and I hadn't, I hadn't heard that word before, and I guess the the runner is like a debt, like a karmic, like a karmic debt, and the bandana, which I thought was cool, is like I've understood from a Bandha, in terms of Ashtanga Yoga, like a Mula Bandha, Uddiyana Bandha, where you're squeezing, contracting or to bind. So the idea of like a rananda bandana, of like a karmic potentially, maybe you and I have some type of connection, or, you know, from the bigger picture side, and that there's through that connection we need to work something out, or maybe from a past life now we, we Join up, and it's like, okay, there's this thing we need to work out. And when I heard that, it really deepened my understanding of karma a little more, because sometimes I feel like it's just a word I hear and then, but I like what you were saying about putting it into experiential level. Can you talk a little bit more about karma and and the way that your different ways that you see and connect with it in relationship to your your life.

Unknown: 28:13

So it's I think karma is something that is really simple concept, but also one that is misused or misinterpreted in many different ways. So of course, we think of karma as this cause and effect that what you sow, you will reap, and you know what you do in the world, you will what energy you give out, you will get back at some point. And oftentimes, we think of karma as in this way of one following the other. But I would, I would say that actually, the word Karma means action itself. And the law of karma is that embedded within each of our actions is the reward or the punishment for that action. It's already embedded within the action. It's not waiting to come back to us at a future point. And so so for example, when we think of somebody goes and steals a lot of money from someone else, and we think that, oh, that person has taken all this money, they're going to have some bad karma, and that money, maybe they're going to find themselves becoming poor in the future, or something like this. And this is usually how we might think of karma. But essentially where we where we get stuck, I think, is that we oftentimes think of good and bad, or you could even say the quality of our life from an external perspective. So I would think of, when I think of good karma, I think of external things happening well for me, and when I think of bad karma, I think of external things happening in a wrong way. But. I don't focus internally. And karma is actually an internal law, not an external law, from that perspective. So I'll just explain this through a small example. So imagine someone has$20 million in their bank account, but this individual, on a ongoing, day to day basis, experiences, emotions of irritation, anger, frustration. They are always frustrated with something or the other. So now, would you say that their quality of life is only defined by that$20 million in their bank account? Or their quality of life is that of a frustrated and irritated person. Similarly, one may have an amazing family around them. A woman may have three children, a loving husband. Everything is going really great in her family life. She has a lot of love around her, but at this point in her life, she's regularly experiencing a lot of sadness and depression. So would you say that her quality of life is only defined by that family around her, or her quality of life is that of an individual who is depressed or sad and from this perspective, when we think of it from this perspective and the yogic perspective, quality of life is what's happening inside us, how we are feeling. We may have all the things going really well for us externally, but if you're not at peace with ourselves inside, then this internal that, that internal unease, will cause us to be miserable, to suffer, and the law of karma is also based on this, what's happening inside. So when I, for example, I become really angry, and my anger overpowers me, and I go and I break a bottle on somebody's head, or I or I harm somebody, or I murder somebody, that action that I do is creating a pattern. It's a samskara, and you spoke earlier about rananu bandana. It's creating a karmic debt with that person, which is through that action that I do. It's that pattern of anger is getting stronger. So to to do that action, first of all, I had to be very agitated and disturbed internally. There was a lot of trauma, a lot of anger. And by that that action, I have kind of repeated that pattern and entrenched that trauma that it's much harder for me now to change it. It's like I take a chisel and a hammer and I'm trying to etch a pattern deeper and deeper into a rock. So every time I do that action, I'm etching that pattern deeper, which means that what I'm experiencing internally, that disturbance, agitation, is I'm etching it deeper into my subconscious or unconscious or psyche, and it's going to be that much harder for me to change that pattern. It's going to take that much longer. So actually, my reward or my punishment for the action is embedded within the action itself. And here I give a negative example, if I would take a positive example, for example, if I am doing good to others, I am helping others being compassionate towards others in such a situation as that pattern, that act of doing something for someone else, without expecting them to pay me back in return or do anything for me in return, one may say that, Oh, that person has done such a good action, they will have good karma at some point in their life. Somebody will come and shower blessings on them, or they will have good things happen to them. But actually the good, the reward, has taken place there and then with by them doing the action itself, they have an inner sense of satisfaction. They have a more peace within themselves by by being selfless in that moment, and they have improved their own inner quality of life. So their reward for their action is, is from that perspective, embedded in the action itself. And I would say that this is really the the law of karma.

Todd McLaughlin: 35:11

Great answer, rohil, almost maybe putting focus on the instant element, like the feeling that you have in your body while you're doing the Act, is the, maybe the way of being able to determine if it is, if the work or the action that we take is one of that's bearing fruit, that's that's actually sweet. I agree with you. I think, I think you're right. I agree with you. It. Is true. I feel like most of the time with karma, it's like, okay, it'll come later. It's gonna come later. You do good now, it'll come later on. It's gonna come back or but I agree with you being able to get into that place of really feeling what's going on. Do you know when we look at, say, like, the asana yoga world, and then maybe we put it into, like, Okay, what's happening in, like a classic workout gym studio situation, where I'm going, and I think I'm just going to do my yoga, and then I'll check that box, and then I'm gonna go, then shower, go to work. And you know that where we get really busy, and we're grateful to have access to yoga practice, but it's not maybe on the same level of like if we're on retreat with you in Bali, where we get to focus all day long. What is your thoughts on ways to help students connect with some of the deeper aspects that you're talking about in relation to karma within the context of a yoga class that maybe is just focusing on physical Do you have, yeah, any insight or hints on how to make it feel a little more depth.

Unknown: 37:07

I think that ultimately, it's, I mean, doing Asana is great because we are reconnecting with our body. We're taking time to breathe mindfully, hopefully. And you know, it's, it's amazing in and of itself. I think that I would say that for me, the way to make your yoga practice deeper is to take it into all aspects of of our life. And I would I'm actually from that perspective, I think quite unconventional in how I how I think that should be done, because I think that especially today, which where we have so many things that are vying for our attention, we have so many distractions present with our smartphone and so on, I think it's it's no longer enough to live a Life where we are peaceful, where the mind is calm, where the mind is more in its natural inherent state of tranquility, to just simply do a yoga practice in the morning and then do a meditation at some point, it's still really hard to stay in that tranquility. And I think here is where we have to focus on our attention itself. Where is our attention going? And I think because there are so many social media applications that all want our attention, that are making money off our attention, everybody's it's there's a whole marketplace in data and attention now. So realizing that actually being very you kind of thinking of our attention as a scarce resource, and really applying it in that way that it's it's something really valuable and scarce, and so I'm going to really be aware of how I am putting my attention out there and creating a system to harness this attention, where, I think, for our ancestors, 10,000 years ago, before there was before they were so busy and so distracted, meditation was the ideal way right to harness this attention to maintain focus and so on. But now, in their lifetime, they would meditate, and then after that, they would sit around the fire. They would they can continue to stay in that state. But today, for most of us, it's we have to work. We have hundreds of messages, emails to reply to, and so it's, I think, for today, it's not only just meditation and the traditional tools of yoga, but we also have to develop a system in our life where we are trying to minimize distraction and maximize doing things that are really help us to Get into a state of focus or flow, even when it's related to our work. So even like things like scheduling and being more mindful of how we plan our days, I think is also part of getting into a deeper practice of yoga, where we can be more still and calm, even amidst so many duties and responsibilities. Oh,

Todd McLaughlin: 40:24

well said, Rohit, when you bring up the aspect of the marketplace around attention, that's, that's a wild thought, isn't it? Like you know to that, you know that actually is very helpful. That's a really helpful you. Concept, because I think we, a lot of us, are engaging with these applications purely from the drug effect, like, the effect of the high that you get from having just like, like, being able to like, here I'm going to hand you my attention rohil and just have fun with it. And that way I can just, like, turn off, in a way, and I hand it over to you, which is a really interesting bargain, isn't it? You know, like, in relation to the idea that you're presenting of no actually harness your attention and conserve it or see it as an incredibly valuable resource, and every little bit that we put into appreciating it and cultivating it potentially would help maybe nullify some of those effects that We were speaking earlier, feeling like bad karma, or like everything around me is so perfect. But why is this inside feeling so heavy and so so difficult and so do you think then we start with cultivating awareness of attention and our do when you do one on one coaching. I mean, it's we're in such a interesting environment because, like, we are using the technology right now for you and I to converse, so we can obviously see that there's this, like, really incredible potential for positivity that can come out of this, in these technological advances, and at the same time, like fire and just grabbing it and we could be burned so badly, it also has this really intense destructive power at the same time. Can you, I love your the name that you have for your handle on your social media, Shiv, Atman. Can you? Can you break down a little bit the concept of Shiva and Atman, and how you blended those two words together, and what that means to you.

Unknown: 42:48

So Shiva, as, as many of you might know, is, is a God in Hinduism, it's also Shiva is considered to be the first yogi. And Shiva is an energy that I am very drawn to. So it's also the energy of transformation or destruction. And ever since I got into yoga, and even before that, when growing up as with parents who practice yoga and a grandfather who was quite religious Hindu. So doing lot of the poojas and ceremonies and chanting mantra and so Shiva was always the God that I kind of really vibed with in that sense. And so when I was thinking of my the name for for my personal brand, shivatman was something that came up. And atman basically means soul. So it's essentially all, all of us are. We have the atman the soul, which is this aspect of pure awareness, of pure consciousness. That's how I define the soul, because the soul is, of course, defined in many ways. But if we think of awareness itself, awareness usually when I think of awareness, I think of it as focused upon some object. So when I'm aware, I'm aware of something, whether it's my breath, whether it's my body in the asana practice, whether it's my laptop and what I'm trying to do when I'm doing work and so on. So usually awareness is directed at something, but awareness, which is just as it is a consciousness, as is, without being fixated upon an object that that is then pure awareness or pure consciousness. And we all have this pure awareness. We all are pure awareness and pure consciousness. And we go through life, so that is the Atman, the soul. And as we go through life, this pure awareness of pure consciousness gets wrapped around or entangled with shared belief systems and identities and so on, and we pick up all these various identities, these belief systems, and we begin to believe that we are the object of our awareness, which is those belief systems and those identities. I'm Hindu, I'm a yogi, I'm Muslim, I'm a Christian, I am carnivore, I'm a vegan, I am a star seed, I'm and so on and so forth. So we we get caught up in the identities, thinking we are these identities. When we are actually the Atman, the awareness that became aware of that identity or that belief system. And so I'm not saying it's wrong to have a belief system. We can believe in our religion, believe in our nationality, believe in but the problem when yoga considers it to the identification or the ego to become a poison of the mind is when we start to identify strongly with it, so we forget that who we are is much bigger than this, this identity. We are the consciousness and awareness itself, and the identity is something like the way I wear clothes and I'm just putting on a new set of clothes for the day or for this period in my life. So that was also a name that I chose to kind of remind me of that

Todd McLaughlin: 46:32

yeah, beautifully said. Nice. Rohit, thank you. You had made mention prior to us beginning our conversation that you're an expecting father. So congratulations. How Thank you. How is it? How are you feeling? Are you excited? Are you nervous? What? What type of emotions have you been feeling upon realizing that you're you're going to be a dad?

Unknown: 47:02

So this is actually something that we've been planning already for a few months before my wife got pregnant, so it didn't come as a surprise to us. We were quite preparing mentally, emotionally and physically as well for it. So we're really, really happy and joyful for this next stage in our life, and me being someone who, two years ago, if you asked me if I wanted to be a dad, I would say never. So it was a complete a complete U turn for me, especially after we got married, yes, and I think that the turning point for me happened when so we had a wedding in Bali. We wanted to have a smaller wedding. We just, we just had about 50 guests, and mainly people who we were close to, and just our closest family. But of course, any Indian culture and tradition, it's not done if you don't So, for example, cousins and and far, even friends who who I've not really kept in touch with for a long time, wouldn't forgive me if I didn't call them for my wedding, you know. So it's kind of and my mom was quite anxious about it. She's like, you have to do something in India. What am I? How am I going to speak to all the relatives, all the neighbors and all the you know, so, so we, six months after we got married, here we did another event in India, amazing, that had about close to 200

Todd McLaughlin: 48:35

Wow.

Unknown: 48:37

And, I think, and from, from my wife. My wife is from Poland, so from her side, from Evelina side, we had maybe six or seven people who attended, and the rest were all from my side of the family. And that would have

Todd McLaughlin: 48:53

been so fun, though. That would have been an amazing experience. Did she love it? Did she love she absolutely loved it. Indian weddings are so incredible. I had a chance to go to one in Goa during it was in monsoon season, and it was amazing to be a part of. I couldn't believe the how extensive of an experience it is. That's so cool. And obviously your mom was extremely proud. And you know, to be able to have the full experience over in it was it in Mumbai? Is that where you guys had the

Unknown: 49:24

wedding? It was in Pune. Yeah, nice. And I think, I think that that wedding changed my perspective on having kids, because I that's I saw all because I never met all my relatives and family from both sides and even far away acquaintances in one place, one time, one period of time. And I think just seeing all the generations and all the people and it kind of it, it brought in this new way of looking at things, which was that kind of like, who am I to stop this, this lineage, this family from, you know, people have been giving birth and and having the next generation for, like, millions of generations, for me to be here, and if, if I'm not a renunciate, why should I Stop that? Just for, for my, you know, individual comfort from that perspective. So that was something that really flipped a switch in me. That's so cool family.

Todd McLaughlin: 50:30

Yeah, I'm so happy to hear that I have to my wife and I have two children, and it has been the most incredible experience. Experience, I could not be more grateful and thankful for the opportunity as challenging and the things that come up and the different things we face, is Wow, the best experience. And what's really interesting rohil Is that, I mean, not to bring up a sad note. I'm going to bring up a sad note because I hear people here in the States, they'll say, oh, they don't want to have children because they don't want to bring somebody into this world. This world is too crazy now. There's too much to be fearful of, and raising children is just too hard. And I, I, I want to be very sensitive and respectful for my friends that are wanting to have children that are unable, because that's a very difficult thing to process and to come to terms with and have to go through. So I, you know, I want to be sensitive here, but I also think that the to be able to do it and and to do it, oh, man, incredible. And I think it brings the joy into a reason for us to feel like life is an amazing journey. Would you do? You agree? Because in some ways, like, if we say I'm not doing it because the world is too crazy, and I don't want to do that to somebody that makes our own personal life feel a little like, well, what am I even doing here? How much more time do I have, you know, like, let me just hurry up and get this over with. Then, you know, like, that type of thing. So I'm so excited for you guys. It is really an amazing journey. And just a little side note, we just dropped our son off at college. He said he's 18, and everybody, when you have the baby is going to say, Oh, get ready. It's going to go by so fast, and you're going to be changing diapers, you're going to say, What are you talking about? I just want to go back to doing yoga every day, and like, having four or five hours a day just to focus on yoga and some meditation, and my Vipassana and some chanting mantra and all these things. And then, like, you're really busy, and you think there's no way this will go by fast. But, man, I tell you, it goes by so darn fast I can't even believe it, but I really am excited for you guys. I'm really, really excited for you. It is such an incredible journey. Is, I know, can you talk a little bit about where you see the future of yoga going? We made mention about your our understanding of you know, how technology is in our lives, for better or for worse, and how would you like to see the future of yoga unfold for humanity, or even just for you? And

Unknown: 53:32

I, I think, I think yoga will, or there will always be space for in person teachings. And because I think that cannot be replaced with with the advancements in people, would look out for those in person teachings and that kind of one on one setting with another human, I think is very hard to replace, though there will be, it will become more of a premium thing, where there will be kind of, for example, today we have a lot of the yoga industry is also online, where you have yoga classes, where people watch on YouTube or they follow an app. And I think this is easily automatable with AI and the advancements in AI, so soon you would have just, you know, AI avatars kind of taking over the online yoga space. And I think also you would have cheap you maybe at some point. And people are saying, with the next decade AI is going to come to the to the industrial world, and so you would have probably robots that could also be teaching a yoga class designed specifically keeping in mind various yoga postures and being able to lead a class. So I think it would make it kind of you would have really cheap, easily available yoga classes which are being run by robots, and cheap online offerings which are run by robots. But you also have a market for people who are looking for personal connections. So that will, of course, still remain, who want to come for a retreat, who want a one on one teaching and, yeah, I think that it's it's interesting to see how it's going to evolve and how things are going to unfold. I think there's also going to be a much larger number of people that are drawn to yoga and other wellness, simply because most people. Think will be unable to deal with the acceleration of information that is going to come around with AI and and like already, we are feeling the overwhelm with with our tools and technology. And we spoke about this earlier, that most of us are struggling to to deal with, you know, all this, all these new tools and technology, and now we are adding the layer of AI on top, and I think it to thrive in the world. Going forward, it's going to be all the more important to be to have clarity in mind, to have peace in our mind, and to just be calm and grounded. Because it's kind of like the way I see it with, especially with AI, is that AI is basically compressing the time it takes between having an idea and manifesting it in the world, which earlier, which the internet also did quite a bit. And now with AI, especially when AI moves into into the real, into the physical world, the material world, it's like you can have an idea. The AI can write the script, create the website. Robot can create the product, and you can ship it, or whatever. You know it's So the earlier you would have to hire a team, you'd have to raise money, you would have to so I think it's in though there's a lot of fear around AI, I think it's it's it is going to have some short term or medium term repercussions and problems, but in the long term, it's going to unleash kind of human creativity, because it's so hard to create something in the world. Anybody who's self employed or will attest to that, right? And, of course, it's become easier now, but I think with AI, it's going to be even more. It just you haven't it's just about being clear enough to have to create with clarity the life you really want, and AI is going to be able to do that for you. Yeah, you know, so it's Yeah, so I think yoga is going to be instrumental in us being able to leverage AI in the right way. Oh,

Todd McLaughlin: 57:58

epic. Rohil, you brought up so many good points. I mean, isn't it unbelievable that we're even at the point in life where I just heard you say robots, and you know what I mean, robots teaching yoga like, and that seems so actually, like about ready to happen by this afternoon. You know what I mean, whereas even, like, a week ago, I thought maybe it would be a month from now, like, like, that's and I think that's the point that you're making with the compression of time. I like that insight about a human idea evolving and taking shape in the process that that would take. And now having a another life form being able to outpace our own creative processes at such a speed, that's so fascinating. But I do agree, because it seems like if it goes so much faster than the human can adapt to it, that having yoga might be the thing that potentially plays a large role in saving us, or saving our sense of wanting to stay engaged in in this environment, I like that you are putting a very positive spin on it. I agree with you 100% because, I mean, I'm enthralled with all of it too. I mean, I'm not, I'm not trying to run and hide into a cave at this point. I did try to do that in my early 20s, but now I'm like, and especially as a dad, it's like, oh man, there's no hiding. I'm in it, right? Like, we're in it. But I, I think it's important conversation to have rohil Like, how is this going to play out? So I think you're on the right. I'm on I'm I'm with you. I think we're on the right track here about the concentration, the ability to harness that awareness of, What am I, what do I want to do, and how do I, how do I access that?

Unknown: 1:00:01

Yeah, and I think it's also like what you're saying, it's, it's very relevant, and we can already see, we get a taster for what's to come with with social media and the internet, because you have, literally, if you think of the Internet marketplace or the economy of which the Internet has created, you have two sides of it, one side, which is the creators, and the other side, the consumers and the creators are the ones who are focusing their they are able to focus their mind on actually creating. Say. It's content or creating things online, and there's a lot of people who are just consuming without creating, and those that are just consuming, they're just giving up their attention to with video games, pornography or Youtube, Instagram and so on, without being mindful about where they are giving their attention, where their attention has again, coming back to attention as a resource. What are they getting in return for giving away their attention, which people are not thinking about, because attention is the main currency here, and with AI, that's going to become even more pronounced. And so unfortunately, I think a lot of people will struggle with AI, because they will be able to have, you know, from from it just being pornography on a screen, you could have a robot in person with you, or, you know, so all your addictions and your patterns can be amplified, and it'll be so much harder. You people will struggle so much more with their attention, with this, how they feel in their body and but the winners are those who are going to be able to pretty, be creative and have focus in that whole so literally, if I can pinpoint my awareness and make my focus so sharp and clear, I can essentially leverage those tools to make myself essentially like a superhuman, like a god,

Todd McLaughlin: 1:02:19

Oh my gosh. Rohil, Wow, dude, I love it, man. Thank you so much. I want to be respectful of your time, and I realize that we're we're coming in on our hour together. I Ah, man, I love having these conversations, because, I mean, I real quick. What do you think the percentage of content creators to consumers is, do you think it's like 10% con creators? 90? Do we have any? Do we have any insight into what that ratio is? Because you're absolutely right. I mean, once i i was so fearful of it, and once I started to interact with it, and now I'm having a lot of fun with it, and the amount of growth that I'm feeling from like even this opportunity to to see you on YouTube. You're creating content. You put content on there. I find you. I watch your videos. I say, Wow, this guy's amazing. This is so cool. I got him. I want to meet him, and I write you an email across the other side of the globe. And you really graciously accept. And here we are. And I learned so much. I feel like, I feel I'm so grateful. I feel like I live in this little, little, tiny place on Earth, and now I'm able to connect with another, you know, somebody who's in in Bali, which is just the most amazing hub for a lot of amazing, incredible things. And so I wonder, does the whole world need to start creating content to then feel to not feel overwhelmed? Do you know? I mean, if, if Is it our job to now start training people how to get involved into the content world, to then potentially have not have people struggling so bad. But I don't know that that's the answer. It seems more the answer needs to be more toward yoga, education and what you're talking about like really understanding and cultivating inner awareness and self love, healing, believing we can heal, remembering we can heal, community, family, like what you would, what you experience going to India, and then having that switch hit where it's like, it's not just about me, it's about I know I keep going on and on, but thank

Unknown: 1:04:45

you. I agree with you that it's yoga, but I think also it's I don't think everybody has to make content, but I think everybody has to be creative. Because when we're in the process of creation, especially if it's something that aligns with our values and our, you know, our moral compass and so on. It's, it's something that gives us purpose in life when we are creating and when we are, of course, consuming. Also can be beautiful, because I can come across somebody's book or video or podcast, which I really love. And I think for me, I find that long form, and this is something I've come to the realization recently. So for the last few years now, I've stopped posting so much on Instagram, but I put a lot of effort into posting regularly on. Instagram and making reels and so on. And I've realized that actually, for me to to be able to connect with others, I need to be putting more deep ideas out there, which which kind of showcase more my my entire thinking and and so on. And I've been actually thinking a lot lately about starting a podcast as well. Yes, what are your What are your tips and tools? Oh

Todd McLaughlin: 1:06:12

man, I I highly recommend it. Rohit, I highly recommend it. And already with what you're doing and the level that you're at, oh my gosh, I really highly recommend it, mainly because I feel like for me, when I started it in 2020 it was right when the pandemic hit. And my wife and I have had our yoga studio here for it's been 19 years, and so we we are so committed to keeping our center going that the pandemic was the biggest challenge that we'd faced as a small business and and holding community together, which forced me to, okay, I have to use these technologies now and but I agree with you the long form like to be really honest, real he'll I love doing this so much like I really don't. I don't even care if people are really paying attention to listening or not, which they are they are, but I actually enjoy doing this so much, because I get to learn from you, right, like I get to I feel so lucky because I get to reach out to people that maybe I would never have a chance to talk with and learn, learn from. So I agree with you having the more in depth. And I think that's where, even though we know the one, the two second, 32nd five second thing is what people are really consuming, like, that's the diet, like, that's the carbs, that's the carbs of the content, the protein, or the, I don't know, the longer burning fuel house of it is where we can go deep like this, and actually just have time to talk and not be in such a hurry that we can't even it takes time, even in this process of, you know, I have to build your trust, and you want to build My trust. And we don't know each other, so we don't know, like, where's our intent coming from? So I feel like the intent is the number one thing, like, so when I even this morning, when I woke up, my alarm went off at 5am and I'm like, Okay, I gotta, like, get my brain going. Because I know rohill has already had all day. It's like, nighttime over there, he's had plenty of time to get some ideas simmering. I'm like, I gotta and and then just talking to myself and saying, just relax. I don't have to worry. Like, just chill out. Todd like, just, just show up. So, so, I mean, I know I get so excited about this stuff. Rohit, so I think based off of what you're saying and your love and passion for the history of yoga and having connection to India. I feel a lot of us that don't, that are wanting to learn more about yoga, are really wanting to seek people that have been seeped in it and born in it from that's from the birthplace of it. So I think you have a lot to offer. So I would say 110% go for it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Man, well, Rohit, thank you so much for joining me today. I know I went on and on there, but thank you so much. And

Unknown: 1:09:11

I mean, I enjoyed the conversation, and I loved the questions you put to me, so it was very nice. It flowed. Well,

Todd McLaughlin: 1:09:18

yeah, thank you. Man, I appreciate it. Well, I can't wait to I'm going to continue watching and and follow you. And I can't wait for for your, you know, just congratulations for your moving forward in your familial adventures. And I really truly wish you the best.

Unknown: 1:09:37

Yeah, thank you so much. Todd, yeah, thank you. Thank you for having me on your show. Thank you, and hopefully to see you at some point again in the future.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:09:44

Absolutely, man, I'd love to have you back. And is there anything that you would like to conclude with us in relation to any final words here?

Unknown: 1:09:57

So I think, I think one thing that I was thinking about, which I didn't comment on was when you said that lot of people don't want to bring kids into the world because of the state of the world and how it is today. I don't know. Maybe I'm just an optimist, but I think that the world has never been a better place to bring kids into than today. And of course, there are many problems, big problems, problems that probably no generation before has even faced at such a such a level. But at the same time, I think that if you stand at any point in history and you people will always say the same thing, the world is screwed, things that are going it. Going to the dogs, and it's really bad and and I think, I think it also depends where you stand along that chain. So I know, for example, a lot of people in India and here in Indonesia have a very positive outlook on where the world is headed. But a lot of friends that I have in Europe or the US have a more negative outlook. And I think it's just where the civilization stands, kind of where people have, have got to a state of of kind of wealth and and abundance and so on, which, where they kind of forget or take for granted many things and focus more on the on the things that they don't have, they don't have or that aren't going well, instead of looking at the amazing abundance that they have generated for them. So I think, yeah, that's at least my perspective on the whole thing.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:11:43

Yeah, thank you, rohill, that is so important to hear. That is really important to hear, because I agree. I think that's our job. We have to we can foster appreciation

Unknown: 1:11:59

and like you're creating the next generation who so if you put the right values of the things, you're, you're, you're literally, you know, creating a small light in the world, right? So, yeah, that's the most you couldn't give. That's, that's an amazing way you can contribute. I think

Todd McLaughlin: 1:12:17

you're right. Thank you so much. Rohill, I really appreciate it.

Unknown: 1:12:23

Namaste, thank you, Todd. Namaste,

Todd McLaughlin: 1:12:29

native yoga. Todd. Cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you like this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com, and hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends, rate it and review and join us next time you.