Salim Rollins | Finding Freedom Through Yoga, Capoeira, and Culture in Africa

Salim Rollins is a yoga and capoeira teacher based in Nairobi, Kenya, where he co-directs Synergy Yoga with Francisco Morales. Blending Eastern philosophies with African and Brazilian traditions, he leads transformative retreats and workshops. Deeply respected in his community, Salim inspires others through his commitment to wellness, cultural connection, and empowering African youth to embrace their heritage through movement, mindfulness, and self-discovery.

Visit Salim here: https://synergy.yoga/

Key Takeaways:

• Salim Rollins shares his move from the U.S. to Kenya, drawn by cultural roots and the enriching environment to raise his children.
• His exploration into yoga began in high school, evolving as a practitioner and teacher after experiencing the blending of yoga with capoeira.
• The episode highlighted the philosophical depth of capoeira as an art form from Africa that underwent a cultural metamorphosis in Brazil.
• Salim detailed his innovative retreat 'Bush to Beach,' combining Kenyan safari with cultural immersion and wellness activities like yoga and Thai bodywork.

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Thank you Bryce Allyn for the show tunes. Check out Bryce’s website: bryceallynband.comand sign up on his newsletter to stay in touch. Listen here to his original music from his bands Boxelder, B-Liminal and Bryce Allyn Band on Spotify.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Salim Rollins' Journey from the US to Nairobi
• 4:11 Cultural Differences and Parenting in Kenya Versus the US
• 7:39 A Journey Through Yoga, Capoeira, and Unexpected Gifts
• 14:53 xploring Capoeira's Cultural Roots and Its Connection to Yoga
• 26:13 Reviving Capoeira's African Roots in Modern Kenya
• 34:24 ultural and Religious Influences in Kenyan Capoeira
• 37:01 Exploring Yoga and Music Fusion in Nairobi
• 41:24 Curating Kenyan Safari and Cultural Experiences for Tourists
• 43:47 Synergy Journeys: Cultural Retreats and Future Wellness Festivals
• 48:54 Balancing Cultural Immersion and Safety in Global Retreats
• 57:08 The Power of Partnership and Community in Business

Transcript

Todd McLaughlin: 0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage, body work and beyond. Follow us at @nativeyoga and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin. Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast, I'm your host, Todd McLaughlin, today, I'm honored to sit down with Salim Rollins, the co director of synergy yoga, an international wellness organization dedicated to community upliftment through yoga, Thai body work and transformative retreats around the world, from East Africa to Peru, Tulum and beyond. Salim's path weaves together yoga, Capoeira Angola and cultural exchange rooted in a deep commitment to healing and empowerment. He is based in Nairobi, Kenya. He's also the founder of the Inuku Cultural Center in Nairobi, where he helps young people discover strength and purpose through movement and the arts. In our conversation, we explore how yoga and travel can become tools for transformation, how to hold space for authentic cultural connection and what it really means to live in synergy with ourselves, our communities and the world around us. Go ahead and check out Salim on his website, synergy.yoga. Follow him on Instagram at@Salim_Rollins. Also you can see his NGO that he has in Nairobi at @inuku_cultural_center. The links are in the description. Click there also reference episode number 232, with Francisco Morales. And Francisco and Salim are partners in synergy.yoga so you can get the full picture. I got really good vibes off these guys. And if you're looking for a cultural retreat in either of these locations, Africa, Peru or Tulum, I really recommend you checking them out. Have a listen, go see their website. I really, I hope I want to go actually. All right, on that note, let's go ahead and dive in. I'm honored to have this opportunity to meet and speak with Salim Rollins. Salim, thank you so much for joining me today. I believe you're in Nairobi, Kenya. Is that correct?

Salim Rollins: 3:12

I am. I'm good. I'm good. It's evening time here, morning time on the East Coast. I didn't ask where you are actually.

Todd McLaughlin: 3:23

Todd, yeah, I'm in a town called Juno Beach Florida, so about hour and a half north of Miami on the east side of Florida.

Unknown: 3:32

Okay, yeah, so we're seven hours ahead of east coast. I'm a New Yorker from suburbs of New York, so I'm used to East Coast time and California time west coast as well. Got

Todd McLaughlin: 3:43

it At what age were you when you moved to Africa?

Unknown: 3:48

What age was a good question? I was, let me do the math now. Would have been 38 I believe cool.

Todd McLaughlin: 3:59

38 What drew you? What was the impetus and or story behind you? Moving from New York, California to Africa?

Unknown: 4:09

Yeah, so I met my ex wife in Brooklyn, New York. She was an NYU student. I was living in Brooklyn, working training. Training. Formerly had been in university in Northern California, UC Santa Cruz, so I zigzagged quite a bit in my life, kind of between the coasts. And we met there, fell in love, got married, and actually moved to Kenya briefly, but then realized we really should. We conceived right away, six months after marriage, conceived our firstborn in Nairobi, Kenya, probably one or two days after moving here, and realized that we should get my kid's mom's immigration in the US sorted before. Really settling. So we moved to the Bay Area, to Oakland, California, and had our two kids born there. We lived there for five years. We were both working and parenting and figuring out, you know, the early stages of parenthood and relationships and all that. And we always had in mind to move back to Kenya, but we had to get my kid's mom's citizenship, US citizenship sorted out. So probably a year, year and a half after she received citizenship, we moved back to Kenya, and that was in 2014 that we moved here. Cool.

Todd McLaughlin: 5:36

What do you think? What? What was the movement move like? Did you love it right away. Did you have rose colored glasses at first that then faded into a different shade? What is your experience?

Unknown: 5:50

My experience in Kenya, so many kind of layers and chapters. My first experience was spending five and a half months here before we had children. So like I said, we conceived, but I really got the opportunity to experience living here. This was back in 2008 so by the time we made the permanent move here, or semi permanent, I don't know that I'll be here forever, but I had experienced Nairobi, and I was familiar with it. You know, I knew how to drive here. I had a sense of the geography and and the culture, the pace I understood kind of how to move here, in terms of the rose colored glasses. Yeah, I think that certainly, living on the continent of Africa was always I had traveled to Africa previously. On a couple of occasions, I'd been to Ghana, I had been to Cape Verde. So I had had some experiences on the continent. And I think that in general, the way of life, the culture, I'd say, the values of Kenya were in and still are in more alignment than my experience living in the US. So of course, there are a lot of things that are challenging and problematic here, like everywhere, but in general, those that still holds true, I think that, and certainly by the time we had children, it was great having our children raised in Oakland their first four and five years, and then we were ready to raise them for some of those formative years over here, for various reasons, but I'll name a couple of them. I think that the pace of life here being being a little bit slower was something that we, you know, that resonated with us, having a large family base in Nairobi, my kids mom, who we still, we co parent now and have a very good relationship. We do things together, we dine together, we talk as regularly so but, but the pace of life, I think the family, the culture, and when I say the culture in general, I think there's less mental health issues here than in the US. In fact, I know that's true, having lived here. And you know, there's less violence in general. You know, we don't really have school shootings and things like that. And, you know, so I think raising our children in this space resonated with us and who we are as people. And also, I think, being in a country as well where it's not hyper racialized, which for people of color, African American people, our children are mixed American and Kenyan, the conversations come back so much to these kind of large things that people wrestle with in the US, and I think they should be wrestling with them, but it's, it's just, I think, can be a constant stressor that you don't think about until you step outside of it and come to a place where maybe that's Not so much of a focal point of what people are talking about or experiencing, also for our children to be able to see people that look like them in governments and in their teachers and all of that, really, I think, influences their self esteem, their their vision for their what and who they can become as people. And that's, as we know, that's an ongoing struggle in the US.

Todd McLaughlin: 9:24

Great points, Celine, that's fascinating. I hear, yeah, it's, I was talking with someone the other day that they traveled overseas. And the feeling, I believe, they were in Europe. The Europeans, think this was Italy, were like, really nervous about coming to the US. They said, no, that sounds too scary over there. And so being an American, and you hear, I hear that, I think, wow, you know, because I'm just living my life and and i It's so fascinating, right? Because, like, the amount of things that we hear about just becomes this, like, pervasive. Of background noise that almost is normalized over time. So it's interesting that you know to hear your perspective about being on a different cultural and different part of the planet that you're like, Whoa, that actually is pretty intense over there, you know. So it's fascinating, man, oh my gosh, I've had a chance to go to Africa into sorry, into Mozambique, Malawi and Zimbabwe, and I had an incredible experience. I found Africa to be an amazing place. I loved it. That's I have never been to Kenya. I've always had the dream of going, do you what was your first experience with yoga, and what role does yoga play in your life today?

Unknown: 10:48

First experience with yoga probably would have been in high school. I started I was drawn towards Eastern philosophy and practices, so I was starting to read about Taoism. I was starting to look at the food that I put in my body, and I started fasting and just experimenting with things, I believe my first I'll go back before high school, first experience that I remember of yoga. Actually, I went to the oldest Montessori School in the US, Whitby school in Greenwich, Connecticut. I'm from White Plains, New York, so I would, you know, drive out there. We had a bus with kids from my neighborhood who'd go out to these different private schools and in Connecticut. And my closest friend Alex Papp, who I reconnected with recently, his father would practice in their living room. So I remember seeing his dad practice. I was probably, you know, like 11 years old, 10 years old, seeing his father practice in the living room. And then Alex gave me a lesson. I remember this. They're like, ski, probably timeshare, or something like Stratton Mountain, Vermont. So Alex gave me a yoga class. He taught me yoga. I mean, he was at that time. We're probably like 1312, ish, 13. And that's my first memory. Then in high school, I kind of circled back. I didn't keep the practice or anything, but that's my first memory of it. And then high school, I believe it was Swami Muktananda, this book. I don't remember the title. He might have a book be here now, or something like that. And I read that book, and it was really impressionable. So that's my first memory. And then I was, I was doing some meditation. I was sitting in high school as well, so I was starting to practice in that form, not Asana, in high school, and then in university at UC Santa Cruz is when Capua Angola, Capua actually came to me. And soon after that, capuet, Angola just a particular lineage and branch of Capua, and I started practicing that intensely. In university, I spent a year in most of a year in Brazil, and got credit for that in university. And after about four years of training, my body started to let me know this training is intense, and I needed something to balance out my training. And that's that's when I looked to yoga in the year 2000 and by that time I had moved back to New York City. I was living in New York then, so found my first teacher in New York in the year 2000 who was that? John Tamayo is a Colombian guy who had a school called Atmananda yoga, sort of a hybrid of Ashtanga and Iyengar, and phenomenal teacher, really, he was humorous. He was not, he was very deep in his practice, but was very personable and funny and but also could really read people. He really could, like, look at someone's body, their posture and and give information about what would be going on, even on a mental level, like he just had, really, I think, a deep skill with with yoga. And so I studied with him at a friend's referral, and then later went to India and studied a bit there for a few months, various cities. I was kind of hopping around. I didn't stay at one yoga studio or ashram, but I was actually doing research. I was doing video production back then. So I was shooting Yogi's and Sadhus and scholars on yoga philosophy at that time. This was 2005 Wow. And this is a sort of docudrama film, or documentary that never got produced, but perhaps one day will, because I still have amazing footage from that

Todd McLaughlin: 14:39

trip. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, nice. Nice. Did

Unknown: 14:43

my own studies as well as I was studying with John, and John essentially wasn't intending, on a conscious level, to be a yoga teacher, but he gets soon after I got back from India, he essentially gifted. Me with the yoga teacher training he I bumped into him in the street one day. Like I said, I was doing video production back then. I was with my friend, who's a filmmaker, indie filmmaker, Joshua and and we bumped into John, and he's like, Oh, Salim, I, I've been wanting to do some video stuff of my, you know, to promote the studio, would you consider a barter like, we can do a yoga teacher training for some video stuff, he had us come in a couple weeks later and shoot, like, maybe three, four hours of footage. I don't think we even edited that footage. And he gifted me, you know, this yoga teach. You know, it's probably $5,000 in New York at that time, studios and Soho, but that's who he was. He would he would give things. He would just give freely, if you know, because he also saw was practicing seriously by that time, four or five years, I knew his sequence, and that was my main interest, was to for me to bring it home. As soon as I started taking classes, I started practicing at home right away. And so I learned the sequence very quickly. Because I was doing that, I was practicing probably more at home than classes and and going to classes regularly. And it really did help my Capoeira practice. Of course, that's so that's cool. He gifted me that, and that led me into, well, I should probably use this, and I was already a teacher. I was teaching what I've always worked with you. Since I was 14 years old. I've been, you know, like a counselor in training. Since then, I've been working with you. So then teaching yoga kind of came naturally.

Todd McLaughlin: 16:36

That's so cool. You're the first person that I met that has used the terminology that you were gifted a yoga training certificate, and that makes me think perhaps that could be a really good way to do it. Perhaps those of us that have the say credentialization to hand a certificate to somebody to just randomly when you see somebody that is exhibiting a certain level of love or appreciation and dedication to the practice to just then come up to them and say, here I have this gift for you. I just want to hand you this. Wow. What an interesting concept. Yeah,

Unknown: 17:14

do that is that kind of person. Think about the type who would do it on the spot like it wouldn't even be pre he lived like that. He was very spontaneous. That's awesome. He's the kind of person who'd just be like, do you want to do a teacher training? Like, actually, be like, Come you should do a teacher training with me. And somehow people would just, you know, they, of course, wouldn't refuse, but that's how he would frame it, and it would happen.

Todd McLaughlin: 17:39

That's awesome. So they, you know, I'm for the listener that may have never heard the word Capua. Can you please give us a definition and or a few stories so that we understand what Capua

Unknown: 17:51

is? Sure, Capoeira is an afro Brazilian martial art that was established by primarily the Angolans and Congolese who were brought to Brazil through the transatlantic slave trade. So the roots of it are martial forms coming out of Central West Africa and but also was influenced by different ethnic groups further north in West Africa that were also enslaved. And they essentially, we like to call it the art of liberation, the art of resistance. And it brings together music, percussive music, call and response songs. It's the physical movements are very graceful, very circular. It's practiced within a circle, which we call a Hoda. And in I also refer to it as a ritual as well. And so it's a martial practice that has a lot of dance elements into it, and, of course, the musical component, and it's very rhythmic. And so this is it's taken on many different incarnations and forms over the centuries. It's responded to, in a sense, what the need was. So at times it would show up as a more aggressive or violent practice, if you know, always self defense within it. At times. It was more the ritual aspect. And it still can kind of sort of show up as it's as is needed. But the way we practice today, and I'd say, over the course of the last century, we actually call it the jogoji Capua, which means the game of capoeira. We don't refer to it as a fight. We say people are playing capoeira, not sparring or fighting. So that's the language we use, and that reflects a certain ethos and equality, that you can have this martial at a practice that's playful, where there's levity, that's sort of self regulating within the circle, so that there's a balance, and so that it's, in a sense. Controlled. And it's a really beautiful form that has responded to that sort of, I think, transmutes, or historically, has transmuted this horrific experience into this beautiful art.

Todd McLaughlin: 20:17

Wow. Well said, very cool. And so I'm curious, what similarities do you see between kapoorta and yoga? Like you had made mention earlier, you said that I first came in contact with yoga through watching someone practice, then you were able to read a little bit of a philosophical say from Sri mukhtin or Swami, muktan, Ananda, Muktananda, and then you said, then I was able to experience like a hatha yoga or a postural practice in the world of kapuerta. Can it be separated into categories like this, where kapuerta has a philosophical school, but then it has a movement school? Is it all intertwined? Because I feel like yoga has kind of a similar element of where we could just say, I'm just going to study yoga philosophy, I'm not going to touch any of the asana at all. And or we could go the other way, where we have, like, all these exercise clubs where it's like, No, we're just doing Asana. We don't want to hear about Atman and Brahman and all these different concepts. So I'm curious, how does the capoeira world structure its dissemination of knowledge and understanding in similarity or difference to yoga?

Unknown: 21:29

That's a great question. No one's ever asked me that in that way. And there are a lot of similarities. There are a lot of similarities of movement, I think, in terms of the movement esthetic, looking at this graceful movement in capoeira, we don't, for example, this sort of principle, core principles that we don't really block. It's more about evasion, getting out of the way, and also it's a dynamic. The movement aspect is about a conversation between two people, more than just attack, defense. It's sort of, we sometimes say it's more of a question answer, but, but a dialog, a corporal dialog between two people. That's cool or you may or may not touch. It's not it's not definitive. One way or the other, really depends on the nature of the game that's being played, and the two people who are coming in, you can have a softer game that's more playful, and you're showing your attacks but not executing. You can have a more aggressive game. So there's that aspect of grace in movement and rhythm. I think yoga at times, certainly vinyasa practice can be rhythmic in its own way. When we talk about flow, there's a there's a sort of rhythm that if you're if you're a teacher, if you're a practitioner, then there. There's sort of a physical narrative that happens over the course of the class. But there can be a sort of rhythm to it. Maybe you're starting off a little bit slowly, and the rhythm might be more internal, might be more with your breathing, and then you may have, you know, the practice may pick up in pace, and it may come back down. We've talked to yoga teachers know this that there's sort of, like, what's sort of the that where the peaks, or how are you structuring your class in terms of, you know, bringing the pace up or slowing it down over the course of the class. Capoeira very much has the same sort of movement narrative over the course of the game, but it's in conversation with someone else. So there's that aspect. But if you were to see the movement, then you'll see, we're on our hands a lot. So there are a lot of inversions that happen in Capua, in particularly the practice and lineage that that I teach and practice called Capua Angola, a lot of the movements are low to the ground. So there are also a lot of movements where you're, you know, supporting your full body. Some of the movements are literally the same you might be supporting your body, like kind of on your on your elbow, or, you know, these lower movements that are happening, but it's a bit typically more fluid. So it would be more like a Vinyasa type movement that's happening, and I'd say more circular movements in capoeira than what are typically taught in yoga, where we have a lot of linear movement, you know, in holding postures, you know, or certainly linear form in the body. Yeah, there's some exception to that, but a lot of times we're kind of looking for those minds and extension and asana practice.

Todd McLaughlin: 24:35

That's really cool. I like the fact that you're bringing up the component of, like, question and answer, and so you're saying that that sort of call response or question answer component is all happening without language. It's happening it sounds to me more from like a body language. Is that

Unknown: 24:53

correct? Is that's how I would describe it? Yes. Is the

Todd McLaughlin: 24:57

musical component giving any. Sort of direction, or what is the purpose of the song, beyond creating a rhythm that you would be moving to. Is there any sort of information that's conveyed through the through the lyrical part?

Unknown: 25:12

Absolutely So within the capoeira circle, music is the foundation. In fact, you don't start moving until you've been sort of given permission by the percussive orchestra and the one person who's guiding the circle as well, who's usually on a specific instrument. This is an African based instrument. It's a single string bow instrument we call a beating bow with a gourd on it. And you'll see this instrument exists in multiple ethnic groups in Africa as well. So this is the descendant of these African instruments. But you also would see similar instruments in parts of Asia and other places. So the music is the foundation. It dictates the pace of the game. The songs are very instrumental. They give instruction. So they're not separate, and they're not they have meaning. And they have meaning, not just in Gen broadly, have meaning, but also have meaning in terms of what's happening inside the circle and how the two players are engaging each other. So they're typically giving the songs will typically give sort of instruction, guidance, warnings, also reverence to ancestors or older Capoeira masters who have passed away. And so this starts to move into the spiritual foundation of the practice, because Capoeira is based in different African based spiritual traditions, or broader sort of philosophies, particularly coming out of Central West Africa, where music is also has is, is the centerpiece of you know your your healing practice, you know your spiritual Practice. It's not separate. It's not a separate thing. In fact, typically in Africa, it's through music and dance that people are creating and generating spiritual connection where you might be. You know, in in Africa, a lot of African spiritual traditions where you might be connecting with ancestors or calling them down or receiving them. This can come into the cup with a space and certainly informs how it's structured. Yeah,

Todd McLaughlin: 27:28

that's cool, man, oh my gosh, like so. All right, I'm gonna try to lay this out. So have you heard the storyline yoga forming in India? Yoga coming to the west. Westerners embracing it, getting really into it, going back to India, and sometimes Indians kind of curious. How come these Westerners are so into the yoga? I took yoga in college, and it was cool and all. But I want to get a degree and be professional and become a doctor, a lawyer, and this yoga thing, like we it's interesting, like, it's a part of our culture. It's been so a part of our culture for so long that there's this curiosity about, I remember going to India, and why are you here to study yoga? Ah, that's interesting. Why? Why Why would you want to come and practice yoga? Like, what's that? What's that all about? You know, and me thinking, well, doesn't everybody here just absolutely, like, really into yoga? And they're like, Well, I mean, yoga is cool. Now, I took a class in college and stuff, but, you know, they were just kind of curious why I was so interested in yoga. Now, in terms of capoeira having roots in Africa, maybe flowering in Brazil. You learning, studying, going back to Africa and keeping it alive. What are you finding? What sort of reaction are you getting from the African culture or the culture in relation to, are they interested why this American guy is now wanting to practice kaputa? I don't know. I'm just curious. Like, what sort of reaction you get, and how prevalent and popular is it there now? And are you having enough to work hard to re ignite that spark, or is that spark already so strong there that you're falling into its power there, or, I don't know if that's the right way to say it, but Did that make sense what I'm saying? Absolutely.

Unknown: 29:28

I mean, you brought up a lot of very interesting ideas and questions, and I think you have a good insight into what's happening interestingly, in terms of this experience of capoeira coming full circle, which it certainly has, and I personally feel very honored, and in a sense, perhaps chosen to be a representative, to be one of the facilitators of bringing this. The African base form that traveled through the transatlantic through this horrific experience and created this beauty as well, but also resilience and struggle and everything that's within coupled. I mean, we're the movements we're doing people were doing centuries ago, but the context was completely different, right? Like they needed, you know, it was a survival method, and now we have the privilege of being able to still keep that history within our songs, within the movements we do. But we're not in that same condition, though. We still think about, how can we use Capoeira to address certain forms of oppression today that's very much in the conversation within certain sectors, certain parts of the capoeira community, not all of it. You have many different like with yoga, many different expressions of it. So coming back to this now, experience of coming full circle. And sort of, one of the things I heard you ask was, sort of, how am I received as well I'm and also how it's being experienced by Africans here. So I teach in a slum community called Kibera. That's the term that's used here. One of the terms informal settlement is another term that a lot of NGOs and scholars use. I think that being in Kenya, first off, sort of post colonial Africa, there's, there's sometimes somewhat of a disconnect between people and their own culture. There's, there is sometimes a suppression that can happen because of, I would say, my opinion, this deferment, at times, to Western thought religion, and this deferment to the west or the British or whomever, as the ones who are either intelligent or have power. So this disempowerment that happened through the colonial process, right? And I mean people, English is the national language here, we can look at that as an example. You know, it's not Kiswahili, it's not Kikuyu. There are 43 ethnic groups in Kenya. So this sort of underscores my point that people there is somewhat of a disconnect culturally in some ways, when I bring Capoeira into a slump. So one piece is that the youth that I work with already culturally embody a lot of the principles we teach in cap where this so in Kibera, respect for elders, you know, like the kids are not I've taught in a lot of spaces in the US. I mean, you know, in different communities. You know, some of the areas I taught in, kids couldn't care less. You know about the teachers, they'll say, whatever. That doesn't happen in keeping it, there's certain core principles. And this also connects back to what I was saying earlier about what the value I see in raising my children here, these sort of values and morals. So that's already in place. The respect for elders like, you know, being able to, you know, be patient in a learning process is already in place with the youth there. You know, they're not in the same sort of rush to have everything. They don't have smartphones, but that's not the only reason. They also just understand time in a different way, for example. And so now bringing Capoeira back to one of this so we wouldn't necessarily say Kenya is the main source, but we can say Bantu culture is one of the core roots of capoeira. And Bantu culture is the primary broad ethnic family that's here in Kenya. One of them, one of them, not the only one. You have nilotic you have kushites as well in Kenya. So to me teaching now in Kibera, the youth are already starting at a level that's sort of further along than most of the kids I taught in the US, because the principles of capoeira are already they're already living a lot of them culturally. Now, introducing the capoeira, it's sort of, my experience has been that it kind of ignites this thing that's already within them, that sometimes they haven't had the opportunities to express in in this way. So it's sort of like the key. Not only do they claim it, they I think they understand it as theirs in a really essential way, and it is, and that's what I'm saying, is it actually is theirs. And now I'm bringing it back to them, this thing that this disconnect, and they're really it's really igniting something very special, who they're becoming. Coming as people, yeah, so it's a very special and to me, a very sacred sort of process is helping facilitate this reconnection. And yes, as somebody from the African diaspora, it also makes sense that it's my charge to come, you know, share some of the learning that's happened through these last few 100 years, and because Capoeira carries this very special message and to deliver this culture, I mean, capoeira, to me, is a culture, you know, back to these youth that have had this disconnect from their own culture in certain ways.

Todd McLaughlin: 35:35

Wow. I mean, that is amazing Saleem, and that's pretty it's pretty amazing to think about, right, like just the passage of time history, how it's evolving full circle. Wow. And to be able to say

Unknown: 35:56

one other thing on this, please. This was also you could say foretold or envisioned or dreamt about by a lot of the older masters. We have so many songs about returning,

Todd McLaughlin: 36:09

like prof, like a prophecy, so to speak, of we see music of

Unknown: 36:13

capoeira. It is. There's a, I mean, Angola. Specifically, there are a lot of songs about Angola. But in general, the sentiment of a longing for Africa is very prominent in capoeira in general, and Capoeira music because of, I think, sort of various things, including economics. There are not a lot of capoeira masters who have come to Africa and invested in bringing Capoeira here, you'll see it much more prominent in Europe, in Asia, in a lot of other places where people have more capacity to make money from it. So ironically, we sing about it a lot, but I think it takes a certain investment in Africa to, sort of, you know, to bring the capoeira into this space, and they're not a lot of people who have done that for all the

Todd McLaughlin: 37:11

reasons. Well, Said, I recently read a book called infidel by a woman named Ayaan Hirsi Ali, have you?

Unknown: 37:23

I haven't read the book. I'm familiar with her. Wow. So I married into a Somali Kenyan family, so my kid's mom is Somali Kenyan and so, yeah, I've been, you know, put on to a lot of different authors, and I know that her work brought up a lot of controversy within the Somali community. I don't know her well enough to know the details, but I know that there was, there are a lot of mixed feelings. I'll put it that way. I think she

Todd McLaughlin: 37:52

brings up mixed feelings in the Netherlands, in the US. I mean, she's such a powerhouse. I mean, I'm so inspired by her. I think it's a phenomenal book. So I guess a question I'd like to ask you, since you have your feet on the ground there, and you're deeply involved in the culture and community, what role does Islam play in your experience with interaction with the children that you're teaching ka puerta? What? What religious and cultural or spiritual backgrounds are you interfacing in your experience of teaching ka Puerta religiously?

Unknown: 38:41

Well, religiously, Kenyan is predominantly Christian, and then there is a strong Islamic influence as well, particularly through the Swahili culture, and that's the culture that that was established on the coast of Kenya through the Indian Ocean trade, or the spice trade. People sometimes refer to it as where people from the Middle East, from India as far as China, have historically been in regular trade through through the Indian Ocean with East Africa. And the result of this was the emergence of Swahili culture, which brings all of these things together. When you look at people on the coast, particularly two of the major Swahili settlements, which were Lamu Island in Kenya and Zanzibar and off of Tanzania, you can you see a lot of these influence, even in terms of how the people look, but also the food the language, Swahili language is a hybrid trade language that combines Arabic, Bantu, Spanish, and sort of incorporates these different things. So. Uh, but back to your question, yeah. So I would say where I teach Capoeira specifically, we have mostly probably Christian youth, but then also I have Muslim students as well. Where I teach, when I teach yoga, it's a very different demographic. It's more of the International Kenyan mixed with the International expat community in Nairobi, which there is a large one, and so that's that's that community when I'm primarily when I'm teaching yoga at at studios, and there are multiple studios and spaces in in Nairobi.

Todd McLaughlin: 40:36

Can you tell me what teaching yoga in Nairobi is like,

Unknown: 40:41

Sure, I'm teaching less than I used to. I used to have regular classes a few years ago, and because of some of my work with synergy and my focus on the work we're doing, which is rooted more in retreats and Francisco leads also type bodywork certifications. So I teach on retreats when I'm there, and then, more recently, though, I'm not keeping regular classes in Nairobi, I have been doing a workshop called Yoga acoustic, which is a synergy yoga practice. That's our yoga school as you know, synergy yoga,

Todd McLaughlin: 41:16

yoga acoustic like acoustic, but yoga and places, yoga acoustic, like acoustics, like hearing, yeah?

Unknown: 41:24

So we, basically, I'm doing a yoga practice with Kenyan singer songwriters playing

Todd McLaughlin: 41:30

very cool. Yeah, amazing. So,

Unknown: 41:33

because I'm a huge music fan and I Yeah, and I also am a Creative At Heart. So you know, I've always had playlists when I practice anyway, typically, like, I don't practice quietly. You come to my class, you know that? So I just started bringing I was like, You know what I want? I want to. I have a lot of musician friends. I want to, you know, also give a spotlight to some of the amazing artists here that don't always get attention. But also they're, these are singer songwriters whose music, I mean, there's obviously a long tradition of yoga and music as well. And so this is the way I'm expressing it in a contemporary space.

Todd McLaughlin: 42:11

Wow, cool. Saleem, you know, I noticed that you have a workshop or a retreat coming up called bush to beach. I think you said you're going to do a back to back to 10 day adventures. Can you talk a little bit about that? I'm curious. What is this with you and Francisco? Are you guys doing this together? Actually, on that note, so everyone listening, I did an interview with Francisco Morales, which is episode number 232 and that's how I got introduced to you, Saleem, because you guys are partnered up through synergy, dot yoga, everyone can find you in the links they can click and see your website. So I'm excited to have this, this follow up, or this opportunity to meet you as well. I had such a great time talking with Francisco. You guys are a powerhouse duo here. I'm I'm curious what type, how did this retreat experience that you're curating come to be

Unknown: 43:05

well, Bush to beach I envisioned years ago, and probably pre pandemic, and then we went through a few years where everything Switched. We continued doing retreat synergy, and me and Francisco actually started working together essentially at the start of the pandemic, and we were doing online classes, but we a whole online platform, actually, for synergy, and then we started doing retreats pretty early on. I mean, we were, you know, maybe a year into the pandemic, not even when we started doing retreats down in Peru. And so even back then, I had envisioned, you know, I had done some retreats in Kenya before, working with Synergy. But I also, you know, I started increasing them. I did a couple as well. Me and Francisco facilitated a couple of retreats in Lamu Island, that first Swahili settlement in East Africa that I mentioned earlier. So bush to beach was in my imagination from from years ago. Is sure, the idea of curating an experience where people could, you know the bush being Safari, and a lot of people come to Kenya for the animals. No, they don't necessarily, unless you're better informed know that much about the culture, necessarily. So that's a huge part of the tourist experience in Kenya in general. So I thought that the idea of, you know, creating a space for that, for people to have the bush, the safari experience, but then also to have more of the cultural experience, the Swahili cultural experience in Lamu specifically, would be really great to have a more broad experience for people, because this is a trip that someone might curate themselves any. Way to have a more expansive, or a broader experience of what Kenyan culture is like. So we decided to curate that basically, and we needed to give ourselves a little bit more time than our typical retreats in order to do that, because there's a domestic flight involved, and you're also moving to two, actually three core locations. I mean, you arrive in Nairobi, and then, and then we go to one of the national parks. There are numerous national parks in in Kenya, so we go to one that's more easily accessible driving wise. So if you go to Masai Mara, for example, you might be six hours in the car. This is after like an international flight, so that, to me, was a bit intense. So I chose a park that was a little more accessible and is also beautiful. I've been to multiple times called Nakuru National Park. So we have three nights there at Nakuru, and then just one transition day back to Nairobi, and then we take a domestic flight to Lamu Island, which is just this pristine island that's culturally rich. There are no cars on the island. There are these beautiful Dow boats that have been made over the centuries. They're just this gorgeous, you know, beautiful. You can just lay out with this inlaid kind of sofas, and they'll prepare your meal on the boat, and you can have a day trip or snorkel and hang out. And then we do a tour of Lamu town as well, which is a UNESCO heritage site. And so yeah, we have multiple experiences over the course of the bush to beach retreat, but this is, yeah, something that I thought of years ago, and Francisco is always super supportive, and loves Kenya and Lamu as well. So looking forward to having him back. He'll also be doing a Thai body work certification when he's here, when the retreats are done. So we've done two of them already with him leading those certifications, and we'll do our third at the end of next month. And yeah, so we're doing two of them next

Todd McLaughlin: 47:04

month. That's amazing. Are you incorporating cupboard and yoga classes within that retreat? Or is there so much to do in relation to doing the wildlife viewing, introducing different cultural components and traveling? Are you also weaving in these aspects too.

Unknown: 47:22

Yes, we always do yoga classes. There won't be any Capoeira on this, and sorry about that. So we always do yoga classes. And Francisco teaches Thai bodywork interactive workshops as well.

Todd McLaughlin: 47:43

Very cool, very cool.

Unknown: 47:46

And so yeah, we have those elements, and then Francisco usually also does partner stretching as well. So we have yoga, typically in the morning, and we may have an evening class as well. But they're not yoga retreats. We call them journey synergy journeys. So they're more cultural experiences, geographical experiences, in the areas where, where we where we travel, which is a sacred valley, Peru, Tulum, Mexico and Kenya.

Todd McLaughlin: 48:13

Nice. Pardon. No worries. I'll keep talking for you for a little while. So earlier in the conversation, you had made mention that you potentially maybe you don't know where you're going to be, say, 20 years from now. Do any of us really know we're going to be 20 years from now? But I'm curious, what is your future vision for synergy, yoga, synergy, dot yoga. What would you you know? What are some of the other plans that you have brewing in your because, obviously, being a creative person and you have global passion for culture and global travel. Do you have any other concepts that you're working on?

Unknown: 48:57

Yeah, we're so I've both me and Francisco have facilitated and organized festivals before, both wellness festivals and and music events as well. So we're we're talking about the possibility of that. I've done a couple of wellness festivals here in Nairobi, separate from synergy, and now thinking about doing a yoga acoustic festival here in in Nairobi. 2026 Francisco has done numerous festivals as well, wellness festivals, and we're talking about what that would look like in Peru. So early stage conversations partnering with people, possibly that he's worked with before in Peru, and so bringing back a festival that he had done formally in the north coast of Peru. But again, these are early, early stages. So yeah, so that's one thing. Yoga teacher training has been in and out of our conversation over the years. Francisco has facilitated numerous trainings. I've never led a yoga teacher training. We decided that it wasn't a priority, partly because the retreat piece of our business has really become a centerpiece of what we're doing the next couple years. It's really the core of what we're doing right now. And the model is that we're primarily partnering with us based yoga schools or partners who are bringing Most of the clients. So it's and then we just, we end up partnering with them, facilitating the retreats. And this is really great for us, because we're able to share these experiences with a broader range of people than just strictly the folks synergy has in our direct community and and also it's it's just a more sustainable model that we're not. You know, the retreat business is definitely tricky and a bit of a hustle, and, yeah, like any entrepreneurial venture. But obviously, retreat is a specific niche in terms of who has the resources to do it, and who you know, and who would be. And then within that, who's interested in travel or interested in culture and wellness in these specific places. So, so we've been very fortunate that we are now collaborating with some really wonderful partners in this past, in the past couple years, but also in the couple years ahead. And this bush to beach, for example, is with one of our core partners, Pedro, with next level yoga community out of out of Florida, your area, and yeah, and so, so multiple, most of the retreats, thinking, all of them next year. Yes, are with partners. Very cool,

Todd McLaughlin: 51:53

amazing. That's a great idea. Have you had any difficult experiences where you had people from a different country who are not very culturally savvy, that you found yourself having to have to like, buffer the what's the right way to say this? I guess culture shock, like sometimes, if I grew up in America, and I've never been out of the country, and all of a sudden I land in Africa, and my senses are just kind of, like, overloaded because I'm having a little bit of culture shock. Have you had any experiences where you've had to, like, be, well, obviously, everybody and everyone, you're probably the medium in between the culture that you're you know that you're blending these two cultures together. Do you have any stories for me in relation to, like, a specific challenge that you've encountered that maybe the person that was on the retreat won't feel like you're talking about them. But, I mean, it's just an interesting thing because, you know, like, I had people say to me once, Todd, it'd be really cool if you took a we'd like to go to India with you. And my experience in India is, like, I'm so overwhelmed when I'm in India, I can't imagine trying to be the the liaison between these folks that have never been out of the country, when I'm already wigging out on how, on how, like to deal with the food that I ate, and now I'm trying to find a place that I can, I don't know, hang out, so I'm just curious, like, that's a big job. Kudos to you for being able to do that. I mean, you don't have to throw anything under the bus. But I'm just curious, how do you handle all that? Yeah, yeah.

Unknown: 53:33

I think our situation is a little bit different, because Francisco's Peruvian. So when folks come to Peru, it's through the guidance and support of someone who's from Peru. And in my case, I've been living in Kenya for 11 years now, so I'm familiar you know, which is different than you know. I can imagine this scenario that you were describing, and like, Yeah, I'm just trying to hold it together myself. And now I got to hold space for all these people that can be intense. So, so that's how we're positioned. And then the third location of Tulum, Mexico, Francisco's led retreats there for also for several years, and is very familiar with Tulum. And really saw Tulum from, probably before it became what it is now, where it was, you know, still more of the small town that it was 20 years ago to, you know, this, this other sort of developed area which has, you know, positive and negative, I would say, or at least, you know, different, different challenges anyway, that come up with when you have that level of tourism, but also type of tourism. So you're kind of getting to the point where, if

Todd McLaughlin: 54:52

you get a bunch of people that just want to come and do drugs and party that that doesn't really help the community, it brings money. Money. It brings money

Unknown: 55:01

in any space. Yeah, exactly. It's, it's right. It's so what, right? What happens to a community or a town when, you know, when it sort of evolves or changes into somewhere that's very you know, where it might be a party town or accessible to Americans, you know, who kind of want to go have this, this certain experience, or, you know, what? How does that affect the local culture and community? What's the middle ground, you know? So these questions come up, but back to your question, though, about So, so it's very rare. So that's, that's the, I think I was giving context to what a synergy experience is like in terms of people coming to a place where either I'm not from Kenya, but I'm familiar with Nairobi and Kenya at this point, and you can comfortably have held space for people who are coming here. And sometimes it helps to have someone from the outside who's lived there for a while, but is American, you know, yeah, in that way, culturally. Yeah. And Francisco similarly, I mean, he's from Peru, but also grew up partially in the US, so he, you know, speaking to Americans and the concerns of Americans is something we're both very familiar with. That being said, there certainly have been situations where people are have, have had, and it's very, I'll say this, it's extremely rare. I mean, I'm thinking of like one or two cases out of how many retreats have we brought, at this point, hundreds of people to these places at this point where people or said person, just, you know, I think was not, in some ways, sort of wasn't able to get out of that American mental, emotional bubble, to be able to genuinely experience The place where they were, that's, that's, that's, you know, and that, I think that experience is equally important for someone, that where you live is not the world. Not everyone thinks like you or looks like you or deals with things the same way as you. Now, when this comes up, it's our job to it's a delicate balance between coddling and allowing someone to have their experience. You know, where? Where do you as a facilitator? You know, what's your role? Yeah, and I think usually it's somewhere, somewhere in the middle that, yes, it is our job to keep to keep our guests safe. That's one thing, and what does that mean now, right? What does it mean to keep someone's in a sense, you can't keep someone always emotionally safe if they are going through whatever challenges they might have going into a different cultural environment. You know, sometimes you need to be shaken up a little bit in order to grow, right? Like there's no growth without some discomfort, and you don't want to just go to another country and experience everything that you experience in your everyday that's the point of travel, is to actually break out of that and learn, right? That's how you learn from other people. Or, oh, they do things this way. So I think where I would say my opinion and observation, if it's possible for me to be objective, is that I think we do a good job of tending that balance and allowing people to have their experiences. Of course, it's essential that people are physically safe and kind of health things that may come up. That's number one, especially going to high altitude, for example, or going to another country where there's just different bacteria and what, what, and so. So, yeah, that's sort of our job is to understand those nuances and be supportive and also allow people to have their experiences. But in general, that's that's been a big rarity. I can think of, literally, I can think of like one experience where someone really had a very challenging time in one of our retreats. Man,

Todd McLaughlin: 59:05

that's so cool. I really appreciate you giving some of the nitty gritty details, because it's fascinating to me. I it takes a lot of work, you know, I I'm really inspired by both the work that you and that you and Francisco are doing it's really cool. I love seeing the partnership and the community that you guys have created. I find I really am grateful to meet both of you, and I think you guys are doing an amazing job. So I kudos to you guys for having the vision and then following through. And I do appreciate and understand the challenge of the entrepreneurial aspect, and you being honest about it that like, yeah, there. This is it sounds amazing for those of us that are, like, stuck in a like, nine to five job going, I wish I could do something else and be out there in the world, the reality of taking a leap like what you guys are doing, and. Doing a business like this, obviously, probably does have some challenges, but it sounds like you guys are navigating it really well. I

Unknown: 1:00:07

think we are, and it helps to have each other, it helps to have support. I really like partnering with people, and, you know, I also like kind of doing certain things on my own. But as far as business goes having partner or partners, even when you know, of course, it presents its own challenges as well just any relationships and dynamics and decision making and understanding how to work with someone effectively, you know, and getting out of sometimes our own way in terms of, you know, when, sometimes, when we're challenged, well, I do things this way. They do things this way. You know, what's the middle ground? So that's always that negotiation in any relationship. If you're married, you're going through this on a daily, weekly, or whatever basis. You know, if you're, if you have children, yeah, I do. I'm a dad as well. I got two teenagers. You're, you're negotiating, you know, especially as they get older, you know, and they have opinions and choices to make. Oh, yeah. So we're always negotiating in community or with people, whether that's in a business or or otherwise. So for me, there's, there's certainly and synergy. The name synergy reflects this, that that we're more powerful in community or as in partnership than we are alone. That's really who we are as a business and and I think we're living into that, both in our partnership as CO directors and also in our partnerships with the people we're working with in retreats,

Todd McLaughlin: 1:01:45

nice lane. Oh man. Well, thank you so much for taking some time out of your day sharing these stories with us. We really appreciate it. Is there anything you'd like to leave us with, any beyond what you've already shared, inspiration, motivation or final tidbit of Saleem, knowledge. Words of Wisdom. Words of wisdom, yeah, the title of your book, it's coming, man.

Unknown: 1:02:20

I mean, yeah, being here, yeah, certainly a pleasure being here. I enjoy, I appreciate. It's funny, because I think that we were doing this sort of thing a lot during the pandemic. Me and Francisco through synergy had a weekly Sangha at one point every Sunday, we were having these kind of conversations with people from all sorts of different backgrounds. Not just yoga. It was wellness, it was so it was activism, it was social pivots, culture. So, so it's nice to be back in conversation and to meet people. We have this amazing technology now we can press a button and have a meaningful conversation with someone. And I think that, you know, I'm just putting attention on that, that the value sometimes of having a conversation with someone and sharing ideas, and the value in listening as well, that's actually something that I think in some ways, was probably heightened during the pandemic, because, because everyone was online and meeting people from different places and sharing ideas in in different ways. And so I appreciate being able to come back to that in the context of this podcast, and I just encourage us to continue to have genuine conversation and sometimes talk to someone who may have a different perspective or different life experience. And I just think there's so much growth opportunity and, you know, and and the opportunity for genuine human connection when we do that. So, so thanks for having me on. Really feel this is great. This is a great conversation.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:03:52

Thank you slim. Thank you so much. I hope to be able to join you one day in East Africa. That would be incredible. Oh yeah, come on out. Oh my gosh. I want to, I want to go and you both you guys are there, or if you're ever in Peru or one of the Maya Tulum, whichever potential venue. But it'd be incredible to be with both of you guys and and to learn and hang out with you. So I really thank you so much, and I look forward to seeing you in person in the future.

Unknown: 1:04:20

Likewise, likewise, brother. Thank you. All right. Thanks Todd.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:04:24

That was Salim Rollins, the co director of synergy yoga, sharing his vision of healing through connection, movement and community. I hope this conversation inspires you to think about yoga, not just as a personal practice, but as a way of building bridges across cultures and hearts. To learn more about salim's work, visit synergy dot yoga, or follow their upcoming retreats and teacher trainings around the globe. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe. Leave a review, share with a friend who loves yoga travel. You can find more conversations like this on native yoga. Center.com or visit our YouTube channel, native yoga Todd cast I have on all of the listening platforms, wherever you're interacting with this episode. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Have a wonderful day. Namaste. Native yoga Todd cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you like this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com and hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends. Rate it and review and join us next time you

Unknown: 1:06:12

for you.