Simon Borg-Olivier: From Tradition to Innovation in Yoga

Simon Borg-Olivier is a renowned yoga practitioner, physiotherapist, and movement expert with over four decades of experience. He is known for his innovative integration of traditional yoga practices with modern physiotherapy principles. Having studied under legendary yoga masters such as B.K.S. Iyengar and other prominent instructors, he has developed a unique teaching philosophy that emphasizes breathwork, movement, and the inner workings of the body. Simon is a passionate educator, sharing his expertise through various courses, workshops, and online platforms.

Visit Simon here: https://simonborgolivier.com/

Key Takeaways:

• Simon Borg-Olivier stresses the importance of moving from your core and breathing less to achieve a meditative state and optimal body function.
• The Five Dimensional Synergy Flow integrates principles from yoga, martial arts, and indigenous practices, emphasizing natural movement and breath.
• Emphasizing health, happiness, and longevity over physical aesthetics is crucial in yoga practice according to Simon.
• Misconceptions about breathwork and stretching can lead to ineffective and sometimes harmful practices.

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Chapters

• 0:00 An Early Morning Interview With Simon Borg-Olivier
• 0:55 The Evolution and Challenges of Modern Yoga Practice
• 8:56 Unlocking Core Movement Through Five Dimensional Synergy Flow
• 14:31 Integrating Movement, Breath, and Awareness for Health and Longevity
• 25:19 Natural Movement and Breathing for Energy and Health
• 36:31 Understanding Bandhas and Their Role in Yoga Practice
• 42:23 Exploring Back Pain Solutions and Online Course Success
• 44:08 Safe Back Bend Practices for Improved Spinal Health
• 47:38 Balancing Aesthetics and Well-Being in Yoga Practice
• 51:50 Restoring Natural Breathing for Healing and Regeneration
• 54:25 The Power of Natural Breathing and Movement Synchronization
• 58:14 Simon Borg-Olivier on Passion, Learning, and Sharing Knowledge

Transcript

Todd McLaughlin: 0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage, body work and beyond. Follow us at @Nativeyoga and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin. Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast, where we explore the heart of yoga transformation and conscious living. I am your host, Todd McLaughlin, and today I'm beyond honored to be joined by the inspiring Simon Borg-Olivier, yoga teacher, philosopher and author whose work invites us to go deeper into the meaning and practice of life. That is for sure, Simon's teachings help us to bridge ancient wisdom with modern experience in a way that's both practical and profound. I found them quite profound, whether you're on the mat in your daily life for exploring your own inner terrain. This conversation is one that you do not want to miss before we dive in. I want to encourage you, if Simon's work resonates with you, go visit him at his website. SimonBorgolivier.com link in the description click easy and where you can learn more, connect and explore his writings and offerings. I'm on his email list. I love getting his emails. He does a great job. Check those out. Visit his website. I love his YouTube channel. I can't wait to read his book that he's written, co authored. With all that being said, though, let's dive in. I am so excited to have this chance to meet and speak with Simon Borg-Olivier, Simon, thank you so much for joining me today. This is an honor and a privilege. Can you tell me how you're feeling and how your day's been so far?

Simon Borg-Olivier: 2:29

It's the middle of the night for me, it's really great to be here. I'm thrilled to wake up to come and talk to you, but I'm in Australia, and so it's very early in the morning, and I went to bed very late last night, but I'm very happy to be here.

Todd McLaughlin: 2:40

Well, you look fresh, and thank you for setting the alarm super early for us today. You know, I I cultivated a lengthy group of 20 Questions, and the strategy I'd like to take is to just go through these questions and see if I can challenge you to give short answers to each and see if we can pull this off. You feel ready? Fantastic.

Simon Borg-Olivier: 3:02

I look forward to it, and if at the end we have time, I'm happy to discuss any of them at length. In that case, all right,

Todd McLaughlin: 3:07

that'd be amazing. So let's get started. You've studied movement and breath since childhood, and practice yoga for decades. How did your early experiences with breath retention and movement shape your teaching philosophy today.

Simon Borg-Olivier: 3:24

One of the most important things that I learned was from my father when I was six years old, who taught me how to swim underwater. He was an amazing free diver, so he taught me the essence of how to move from your core, making your whole spine move like a wave, like fashion, while not breathing. So the two most important things I do, probably now in my practice is I move my whole trunk in an undulating fashion, and I don't breathe. Breathe less, not more. Is the essence of my practice. It's what we do when we're asleep, when we're meditating, what fit people do when they run, hardly breathe at all, and they're called fit.

Todd McLaughlin: 4:01

Love that awesome. What was the biggest insight you gained from studying with masters like BKs, Iyengar, patapi, Joyce and tkv desikachar.

Simon Borg-Olivier: 4:12

Okay, so very quickly, Mr. Iyengar taught me the essence of work it out for yourself, explore experiment. That was really a key thing that he gave me. And I remember being next to him one time doing a shoulder stand, and he was constantly fidgeting, adjusting, working out what the best movement is. He really was an inspiration to me. He really was an explorer, you know, a Psychonaut, internal astronaut, you know. And then partavi Joyce. I really loved him as well, and one of the things that I really picked up from him was this idea of just get on the mat and practice. You know, it often people overthink it, just do it. And one of my axioms that I live by as a physiotherapist is exercise is optional, but more. Movement is essential. So I have a lot of respect for ashtanga yoga practitioners because they actually practice, you know, and okay, sometimes some people criticize it. It's too much the same. It's too much this. But actually they're doing stuff, and I appreciate that. And he was very good at inspiring me on that. And then Jessica Chad gee, you know, he was a really beautiful man, and one of the things that really struck me about him was that he asked me one time, what's the meaning of yoga, and I thought I gave a good answer by saying, yoga is the realization that our individual consciousness is one with Universal Consciousness. And he said, No. And then he asked, you know, there was 10 people in the room. He asked every person that we all give our answers. And he goes, No. He says yoga is about the relationship between guru and shishya, between teacher and student. And I realized that yoga is all about relationships. How to connect and the best way to connect is with love? Yes.

Todd McLaughlin: 5:53

Yes. Great answer. As someone trained both as a physiotherapist and yoga teacher, how do those worlds inform each other in your work?

Simon Borg-Olivier: 6:04

I think if you are playing with your body, and you know, not all yoga involves, you know, connecting with your body, but I think it should. And Mr. Iyengar once had this wonderful quote, he said to us in a small group, which I never saw written down, he said, yoga is when you make every cell of your body sing the song of the soul. And that's nice. In India, yoga and meditation, the words are synonymous, but often meditation in the world today is people often just sitting. They're not thinking about their body. They're thinking about their mind and relaxation. I really believe you have to connect with your body, and physiotherapy really gave me a chance to explore the workings of the body and explore anatomy. And once I did that, then I realized its intimate relationship with physiology and with psychology. And so it was an entrance for me into really exploring the physical world. And I really appreciate that, because I believe that to make yoga work, you've got to really understand your body. I believe we were given this wonderful avatar to live in, but they never gave us the instruction manual, so you really need to know as much about it as possible. And physiotherapy gave me a great basis.

Todd McLaughlin: 7:15

Incredible. You've been teaching since the early 80s. How has yoga, practice and teaching evolved in your view, over the last four decades?

Simon Borg-Olivier: 7:27

Well, I really appreciate that in the last especially the last two decades, with the advent of the internet, there's a lot more information out there and there's a lot more sharing of knowledge. But along with that came some disadvantages, a lot of confusion, for example. And, you know, I believe that yoga is a skill that to become a master, which I'm nowhere near, would require decades, really, decades, you know, even to become a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu expert, you know, someone who's a black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, most teachers will say you need for an adult minimum, 2025 years. But now suddenly, in the world of modern yoga, the last 25 years, you can become a yoga teacher in one month, or even less, online. And so I believe a lot of yoga has lost its credibility with the advent of the Internet, internet, with the advent of sudden certifications. And so a lot of it got watered down, even though we have potentially more knowledge, more skill, a lot of it got watered down in the early 80s, when I first started teaching, you had to have mentored with someone for many years. And like I said, you know, for me, I started with my father when I was six, I was learning career. When I was eight, I had a Tibetan Lama in my in my teens, and I still didn't feel like I was ready to teach when I was 2223 you know, if I was forced into it. But now it's very easy to become a teacher, and I believe that in some ways, has degraded yoga and made people teach things which are ineffective or dangerous.

Todd McLaughlin: 8:57

That's I would agree. And that's super insightful, if we switch over into a different segment on the five dimensional flow movement system. Can you describe what quote, the five dimensional synergy flow in quote means, and how it differs from traditional yoga or other movement practices?

Simon Borg-Olivier: 9:17

Okay, well, I was very lucky to have so many wonderful teachers from traditional cultures all over the world. Like I mentioned, I my first traditional teacher was from Tibet. Then my initial teacher training course was with a group of people who were affiliated with Japan, teaching Japanese teaching. So it was I had Japanese teachers teaching a lot of Zen and Buddha and Japanese martial arts, along with some my younger yoga teachers, at the same time from India. And then I also did in my the last 25 years, a lot of stuff with Chinese teachers, great masters from China. And also along the way, I learned a lot. Of physical manipulation and and movement patterns from South America, South Africa, Thailand, Philippines, indigenous Australian culture and all of that became something that I had to reconcile with how I am as a movement based physiotherapist. Also my previous degrees in science were in molecular biology and, you know, medical systems. And so all of this, to me, I had to try and reconcile. So what I've done is to try and go, what is the common origin of all these things? What do all of these systems seem to say? And so for me, a five dimensional flow, five dimensional synergy flow, the systems that I teach now at the very base, having the common origin of all these systems, and very quickly, the most important thing, perhaps, is to recognize that if you want meditation, and meditation can be a word like yoga that you could put into any culture. It's about connecting with yourself in the here and now, and being connected with your activity, and maybe sharing good energy and loving informations, healthy connections, healthy blood flow inside a pain free, functional body, and maybe using that model of sharing good energy inside yourself and good and loving information, I call it healthy blood flow and the dominance of your parasympathetic nervous system, and making that as a model for how You go in the world. But to make that happen, the most important thing is that you connect the thinking brain in your head with the what we call the gut brain at the core. You know your your enteric nervous system. So the enteric nervous system is a very important feature of medical science. Now they're recognizing that it's the third and the largest part of the autonomic or automatic nervous system around it, it's wrapped your internal organs of digestion, immunity, reproduction, then around that, we have all the core muscles that everyone talks about as being so important. But it's not lock your core. It's move from your core. And you often hear in physiotherapy about engaging the lower abdomen. And with the confusion of modern physiotherapy and the studies they did in Australia in the 1980s people like desika Cha made confusion and suggested that the research studies in physiotherapy relate to mula bandha and uddiyyara bandha also PATA B Joyce made some statements about mula bandha being related to the anus being tied. It wasn't his fault. I think someone just asked him, What do you mean by Mula Bandha? He probably pointed somewhere, and someone said, anus. And he goes, Yes, anus. I mean, English was not his first language. But with that came the confusion of the anus being mulabanda and, of course, Uddiyana Bandha is not draw the navel to the spine, but it became confused with this physiotherapy process of drawing the lower abdomen in. And actually there are four different ways to draw your navel to the spine, and only one of them, which involves expanding the chest, like breathing in or breathing out, but not and affecting the intra abdominal pressures. That was the Uddiyana Bandha. But many people think it's just draw the navel to the spine. And what those two things done have done, especially tightening the pelvic floor and drawing the navel to the spine, the way most people do is lock the core, inhibit the diaphragm, which is the top of your core, inhibit the lower back from moving properly. And along with the problems of seat being seated on chairs. The back of the core has been crushed. The l5, s1 is often very, very labile and prone to lower back pain. The pelvic floor is often held too tight on people, which actually inhibits the diaphragm as well. And often people are sucking in their abdomen. Mean they just can't use their diaphragm at all, which is something which is happening already because of the chronic conditions of having the front of the hips so tight by sitting on chairs. So essentially, what I've tried to get people to do now is unlock their cores, move from their core, breathe from their core. And you know, the core in China is well known as the dantian. In Japan, they call it the hara, or the center of the Hara is the tandem. But this concept of connecting with your core is all over the world. And the word in India, which is not very well known, I don't think, is khandha. And they say the khandha in India is the origin of 72,000 Nadis. It's between Manipura and swadhisthana Chakra. And so the kunda is very, very important. And you move from the Khanda Not, not lock your core. Move from your core. I call it core loosely in English. But the idea of the core, the smallest part of which is an invisible, tiny spot where all movement starts from. And you see this even in animals, has around it this lower abdomen region, which we could call the functional core, and then the core is a small part of the trunk which is a manifestation of the spine. So I call my system five dimensional flow, because you can get your trunk and your core to move in five distinct ways. So like your spine, the trunk can lengthen and shorten, can go forward and backward, can go side to. Side, like side bending, it can twist or actually rotate. But the trunk, unlike the spine, can also expand and contract, which is what happens when you breathe. And so by manipulating your trunk in five different ways, you can pretty much create any posture, any movement. And I've found this to be the basis of this common idea of moving from your core is the basis of traditional yoga, Qigong, internal martial arts, dance physiotherapy, and you can use it in any system. So then five dimensional synergy flow is when I took the five dimensional flow system and I merged it with my understanding, which I developed with my business partner, Bianca matchless, who's also a movement based physiotherapist, and we developed a system called Yoga synergy, which we developed from the 80s to, you know, had a good functional system by the early 2000s where we teach five specific sequences and the sixth one, which is A simple version of it, which practices, which engulf all the teachings of the practices of Iyengar and patabi Joyce and other key teachers. And it's like Ashtanga based practice, but much more adapted for the modern body and the needs of the modern body. So five dimensional synergy flow is the version of that that I use, which really incorporates moving from the core and moving fluidly, and moving actively and really moving in a way which is pain free and takes into account what I've learned over the last 25 years that is really important to address as you get older. You know, because what I'm working for now is not just strength and flexibility, which was my aim in my 20s, but I may be for health, happiness and longevity. And that's, I'm 65 now, and I, you know, I'm fully into life and enjoy everything. I dance several times a week and have great times. You know? Wow. That was a bit of a longer one.

Todd McLaughlin: 16:57

So that was incredible. Simon, amazing. Great job. All right, next one. Why is it important to integrate movement, breath and awareness, rather than treating them separately?

Simon Borg-Olivier: 17:08

Look, I think that sometimes people in yoga say, and people have criticized me, saying, Why are you moving so much? And I'm going like I said about the physiotherapy axiom, exercise is optional, but movement is essential, and I think just to be static and poses is not a good idea. I think we need to move healthy life is a life where blood flows effortlessly through your body, which I call the good energy flowing through your body and your nervous system is functioning optimally with a balance of parasympathetic, sympathetic and and enteric nervous system balance, which means the information has to flow through your body. You know, every cell of the body has to communicate with every other cell for your body to be functional. And I believe, actually, in terms of yoga, when every cell of the body treats every other cell with Yama and Niyama, the ethical principles of yoga, which, if I had to summarize it, Yama and Niyama would be like a mother treats a child by sharing her good energy, her love. That's cool, but you know, it's not these negative things that many people think. Don't be violent, don't steal, don't be attached. Ah, as in a parigraha Ahimsa asteya doesn't mean none. It can also very equally mean opposite of opposite of violence is gentle. Opposite of stealing, is giving, opposite of attachment, is freedom. So a mother will establish a gentle approach, a loving approach, a giving approach. You know, establishing freedom. You know, this is something which if every cell of the body gives that to every other cell, then you get perfect health. But they have to communicate. If a cell in the body decides, no, I want all the energy. I want all the food. You get cancer, you know, some some I hate the other cells. You get autoimmune disease. So it's essential that we have movement in the body. And movement in the body is very difficult for the average person to do if they sit in a simple posture. You want your practice to be like my Tibetan lama told me when I was in my teens, he said that yoga and meditation are one, and that he showed me meditation, and he showed me how you sit pretty much with no clothes on, naked in the snow. And I went, Oh, that's meditation that looks difficult, you know. And I'm going, I could never do that, you know? I had some idea, but that looked so hard. And then when I went to university, some of my friends, and this is the late, late 70s, they said, You should come to our meditation class. And I'm going, I could never do that. Looks too difficult. And they said, No, come. We'll help you. And I came, and I saw what they were doing. They're sitting in these cold rooms, covering themselves with blankets. So I'm going, that's not meditation. That's sitting in a cold room, getting cold and bored. Sounds bit silly. I'm not criticizing that type of practice. I'm just saying that to me, is relaxation, concentration, and I'm sure it has some benefits, but what you really need, I think, to connect with your body, is healthy blood flow. So I you know, I'm not an expert, I'm not a master, but I can go into a cold environment and build up heat very. Easily, whereas what you often see in the modern world of exercise and yoga often is you might see someone sweating, heart racing, breathing a lot, and you go touch them, and their skin is wet, but their fingers and toes are cold. The blood hasn't circulated so healthy posture, movement, breathing and awareness or mental control that should be used ideally to promote the flow of blood in a healthy way, not with your heart racing. I call it good energy flowing through your body and loving information is that dominance of your parasympathetic nervous system, where you're predominantly relaxed, but of course, you have enough sympathetic tone to give you what you need. But most people are just stressed, and stress is going to cause the emotional body to become in a state of fear, anger, aggression, lack of safety, lack of trust. Doesn't sound like yoga to me. So what I want is healthy blood flow, which is what you get with most people's exercise, but it's usually with heart racing, which is stress. But I want the feeling, the sensation and the body responses that you get when you're sleeping or when you're meditating properly, well, you're totally relaxed. And most people, to me, are not doing what I'll call real yoga. They're doing haha yoga, which is the stressful part, followed by Tata yoga, which is the relaxing part. What we need is Ha and TA, which is like sympathetic, parasympathetic balance. At the same time, do something which invigorates you, which makes blood moving, but you're not feeling in any way stressed. Your heart's not racing, you're not breathing more than you need. You're not sweating unnecessarily, not thinking or stretching too much or tensing too much, because these things manifest as stretch. So what I want is lengthen my muscles, but a feeling that I'm not stretching them. I want mobility, but I don't want the feeling that I'm causing anxiety or problems like that. Has to be a balanced set of movement, and movement makes it easier to move the blood inside the body for most people.

Todd McLaughlin: 21:54

Yes, very cool. Love it. Thank you. Short version, thank you. I know. How can you do these shorts hard? It's You're doing great. You're doing great. We're doing amazing. Thank you. How can someone new to yoga begin exploring this approach safely at home? Okay?

Simon Borg-Olivier: 22:14

I mean, if they write to me, I'll send them a whole bunch of simple practices. I have a pretty vast membership website which has a beginner level, which is just free, or you can subscribe and get access to hundreds of hours. I have an ongoing teacher training level all online. But I do travel all around the world, and there are lots of my teachers all around the world. I've been teaching for decades. So some of them use my name as yoga synergy. Some call it synergy flow. Some call it five dimensional flow. But you know, if anyone writes to me and they are living somewhere where I can't reach I'll suggest some things for them. But otherwise, the simple thing is, make the aim of your practice to connect, not to disconnect. I'll say a simple approach is three steps, make the aim of your practice to move good energy and loving information through a pain free functional body. What do I mean by it? Very simply, is good energy, encourage blood flow without the heart racing, and make it while you're feeling relaxed, that's the loving information. Do it through a pain free functional body. In other words, predominantly, I'm talking 90 to 99% of your practice time, it shouldn't be uncomfortable. The exact opposite, it should feel good while you're practicing, maybe for 1% of the time, up to 10% of the time. Like an athlete, you might push yourself a bit harder, but mostly make it feel good and do it in a functional way. Don't train till failure. You know, many people teach if you want to get your muscles strong, pick up a nine repetition maximum weight might be something like this. By the time you get to the ninth time, it's you can't do it anymore. You failed, you know, or stretched till you can't stretch further. When you failed, when your body seals, you sees you're a failure and you couldn't do it, it's going to want to get stronger, and it will next week or the week after. But this system is not ideal. It will only train your muscles, you know, if you train your bow, if you train muscles, and it takes two weeks to see a visible change, yes, okay, but it's going to take your ligaments and tendons two months. It'll probably take your bones two years and your blood vessels, who knows how long. So what you want is a training which is slower, more gentle, like traditional meditative trainings, which are not intense, but you do them for longer. So in the Sutras of Patanjali, when it comes to chapter two, and he starts talking, or he or she starts talking about Asana after talking Yama Niyama, he says, sthira sukam, asanam, be firm but calm. You can think about that in several ways. It's maybe about a balance between sympathetic parasympathetic nervous system. Then he says, Keep doing this activity, which could be a posture or movement, until it becomes effortless. And another text, that effortless stage will probably be guaranteed if you can do the activity for about three hours, they have a. Special term for that length of time. Then it says, now all duality shall cease. And then now you're ready for pranayama, meaning that pranayama is not just breathing. It's up until that point. Just breathe naturally. And when you've mastered an activity where it becomes effortless, then you're ready for yoga, then you can ready for breathing. So the simple step that I'll give to people first is, don't train till failure. Make the predominance of your practice something which you can do functionally. So pick an activity that you can do easily, but it's got to make blood flow. You've got to still feel relaxed. You've got to do it in a meditative way. And that's the first step. Move good energy and loving information through a pain free, functional body. Second step is, stop blocking good energy and loving information, which means stop creating a restriction in blood flow, stop creating stress, which congeals the nervous system into sympathetic dominance. And so to do that, you have to think the whole way through five things. Can I do this activity while tensing my muscles less, because that blocks blood flow and crisis creates stress. Can I do it with stretching less? Because stretching too much actually causes lots of over sympathetic nervous system stimulation. And it's a subjective thing. We could go into it at length. But often, stretch is usually just eliciting a stretch reflex, which is part of your stretch, a part of your sympathetic nervous system. Often, you can think of stretching as like when you get a garden hose and you bend it in half, one side is very stretched, but the water doesn't flow anymore. You know so often stretching will inhibit blood flow and cause stress. So I say tense less. Stretch less. Breathe less. Because the more you breathe, the less blood goes to your brain, the more your nervous system becomes overstimulated. Any medical textbook will tell you that breathe less, not more, and then think less, because overthinking will block you, like I said with PATA B Joyce, you know, 99% practice, 1% theory versus axiom. You know, people you need to think, but not when you're practicing maybe less so. So I say, tense less, stretch less, breathe less, think less, eat less, and if I want to add it to it, if you can do it with less heart racing, less sweating as well. And so those things will be helping you, not helping you achieve your aim. So the aim to move good energy and loving information through a pain free, functional body. Second step, stop blocking it while you're practicing. Can you do it with less tension, less stretch, less thinking, less breathing. You know, if you go doing a walk, and walk is your yoga, you go, do you need to tighten your pelvic floor? Why are you tightening like everyone here listening? Could go, can I relax my pelvic floor right now without anything bad happening? Oh, yes, well, in that case, why were you tightening your pelvic floor? I mean, there's names for people like that. They're not nice names often, you know, but people think I've got to keep my pelvic floor tight. Maybe, if you are someone who stands up and accidentally urinates, tighten your pelvic floor before you stand up, then go to the toilet, then get on with your life. But you know, some people do have pelvic floor problems, but the world of modern yoga somehow got infiltrated with physiotherapy for you know, people who are post natal or older people with incontinence, not everyone needs to tighten their pelvic floor. Most people need to relax it same with drawing the abdomen in. Most people are holding their abdomen tight, and I invite anyone listening now, can you let go of your abdomen and relax it more? Is it going to cause a problem? And often it doesn't. Most people are just inadvertently holding their abdomen all day long and in their practice, whereas, if you see what babies are like, their abdomen is hanging out. It's a relaxed baby belly. But you can't do that on Facebook, you know, like, here's my abdomen. My hold it in. If I relax it, it does that. I've had food last night. But if I want to pull my lower abdomen in or push it out, I can, but I don't need to keep my abdomen fully tight the whole time. And so the you know, tense less Don't be so tense. So first step, you know, make connections inside your body by sharing good energy and loving information through a pain free, functional body. Second step, stop blocking that aim. Third step, encourage that aim. So that aim can be encouraged if you move actively into positions. Moving actively means by instead of taking your leg and dragging it, pulling your leg into lotus with your hands, can your leg cross over with like your arms to across arms? Can your legs do that? I'm not saying don't do lotus, but I'm saying at least initiate the movement, moving actively, using your own muscles, not using external forces like gravity, one limb, pulling another or momentum, because those external forces will elicit a stretch reflex, which will retard blood flow and start to cause stress and potentially damage your joints. So moving actively is the key to creating strength without tension, flexibility, without stretching and blood flow, without the heart racing and relaxation, without needing to lie on the floor. So the first step, I say, for encouraging the flow of good energy inside your body, is moving actively. Second step is move from your core, don't lock. Your core. And if you don't understand what that means, apart from just stop locking your core simply, it means lengthen your lower back. The back of your core, which is often squashed when people stand up because they're psoas or the front of the hip, is too tight. Relax your pelvic floor as much as you can without causing the problem. Relax your abdomen where you can and breathe into your abdomen. Breathe naturally, diaphragmatically, then to move from the core. Consider moving your spine, not just keeping it locked. Consider opening and closing the the chest and abdomen, not just keeping them always the way most people do. Abdomen sucked in, chest open. They both have to open and close. So you're not just making spinal waves. You're also making the trunk move in waves. So this is part of you know, move actively, move from your core. Breathe naturally is my third step for this. Breathe naturally, at its ultra deeper levels, will be breathe from your core, which becomes then real pranayama, because there's no point breathing into your chest like many people do, because most people breathe into the chest by inhibiting their diaphragm. And I invite anyone out there now to take a breath into the chest. And everyone can do that. But if you open your pelvic floor and expand it, as if about to go to the toilet, but not then, expand the abdomen like a baby's belly, which means you're relaxed. Now, try and breathe into your chest at the same time, and you'll probably find the chest doesn't move as much. But now if you tighten the pelvic floor and you exhale and pull the abdomen to the spine, which is what many people teach, Keep the abdomen in, try and breathe into your abdomen, and you'll find it causes tension or stress most people. But now if I say to you, breathe into the chest, it's easy because you're doing the very thing that I said made you tense. In other words, if you expand the pelvic floor, expand the abdomen, the chest doesn't want to breathe easily for most people. But if you tighten the pelvic floor and tighten the abdomen, then people can't breathe into the abdomen. They can only breathe in the chest. And so real pranayama is not just breathe into the chest. It's like the complete yogic breath is learning how to breathe into the pelvic floor, which means you're opening Muladhara and swadhstana Chakra, you know, breathing into the lower abdomen and upper abdomen. There's your Muladhara and swadhistana Manipura, and then keeping those lower chakras open, then open the chest, and that's like filling the bottom of a glass of water then filling the top. And you can do it in many ways. I don't just breathe into the front. I breathe into my spine as well. So at the base level, pranayama must have at least natural breathing. And in the Sutras of Patanjali, in the third chapter, they talk about the city powers that you get when you understand real yoga the superpowers, and many people think they're aiming for the superpowers. I'm not planning on getting superpowers, but I'm happy to acknowledge that we are very normal people living in a totally unnatural world. And if you want to think about superpowers, the first step is go back from normal to natural. You know, breathe naturally like a child, laugh like a child, move like a child, move more freely, more naturally, and then, once you've taken the step from normal to natural, maybe supernatural is a possible. But what most people are doing in modern yoga, modern exercise, is they're inhibiting natural breathing by over tightening the pelvic floor, by locking their knees and over extending the hips that will pull the diaphragm downwards, because the muscles at the front of the hips will pull your diaphragm down. The psoas attaches to your diaphragm. The psoas, being so tight from sitting on chairs five to 15 hours a day, will also pull your lower back inwards and compress the back entrance to the core, around the l5, s1, causing lower back pain, energy drain. So move from your core, move actively, breathe naturally or breathe from your core, and then move fluidly, because energy doesn't go back in straight lines. You have to come into a pose one way, but come out of another way. And if you go too far in, you're stuck in a corner. You have to reverse out. So never come to a full stretch. If you want energy to flow, you move in a direction, but then allow enough space to make a U turn to come in another direction. And you know that if you move back and forth in a straight line, you have to brake and accelerate. If you move another direction, back and forth, you have to brake and accelerate. If you were driving a car like that, it would cause a jarring effect, and it would waste brake and accelerate and lose energy. But if you move through a circle, you can go through all four extreme points, and you never lose energy, you never brake, you never accelerate. It actually builds energy. So moving fluidly means not going linearly and always changing the dimension or the direction of quality of movement as you move in one way, to change direction. So they're the three things you know, make the aim of the practice to move good energy and loving information to a pain free, functional body. Second step, stop blocking that aim. Tense less, stretch less, breathe less, think less. Third step, encourage that aim. Move actively. Move from your core, breathe naturally or breathe from your core. All and fluidly or gracefully like a dancer, like a Shiva, like a natarani, Nataraja, yes.

Todd McLaughlin: 35:51

Simon, wow, you've given me so much to like, think about it, but also it makes perfect sense. I can't wait to to put some of your ideas to the to the testing platform. I'll send you some of my stuff. I can't wait. Sign that I can't wait. Oh my gosh. Great answer number eight, what are some common misconceptions about flex? I feel like you actually you answered, yeah, what are some common misconceptions about flexibility, strength and breath work that you aim to clarify through the system? I mean, I feel like you, you really

Simon Borg-Olivier: 36:31

summarize it in the head? Yeah, please. People are over tensing things like the pelvic floor and the abdomen. They often block too much muscle. By tensing beyond about 15% of your maximum, you'll block blood flow. And often, stretching will block blood flow. What we want is not to feel stretch. We want to feel free. We want mobility. What you want is not to feel tense. You want to feel strong. So these are loosely a couple of misconceptions, you know, but certainly over stretching, over tensing will retard blood flow. Most people are occupied too much with the look of a practice, you know, how flex? How much do you stretch, how much can you lift? And they're forgetting that our body is not just muscles and joints. We also have a physiology, and the physiology is our energy levels. Not much point having strong muscles and flexible if you've got no energy. And also with good energy flowing through your body, your immune system, digestive system, reproductive system, will function properly, optimally for health, happiness and longevity. And then once your energy is flowing and your body is pain free, I just need a pain free, functional body. I'm 65 I don't need to do legs behind the head. I don't need to do the splits. Actually, last night I did the splits. I've got some advanced students. I want to show them, but generally not, you know, I don't stand on my head very often unless I'm dancing. Then I spin on my head occasionally to make a regular practice of it is not necessary. But most of the time, I'm doing simple things, and I'm getting blood to flow effectively. And this gives me energy while being functional. And that makes me happy, because what we want is not just physical strength, flexibility. Pay attention to your energy levels, your physiology and also your mind. We want happiness. We want clarity. We want focus. We want be able to grasp reality by seeing that it's not just logical, but it's also intuitive, like

Todd McLaughlin: 38:17

that beautiful, new little category of topics, science, anatomy and therapeutic teaching, I love this question. You co authored applied anatomy and physiology of yoga, what's one key anatomical principle every yoga student should know? Oh, wow.

Simon Borg-Olivier: 38:35

This is the book that I wrote with Bianca matchless, who's my dear friend and companion for the last 35 years, also a movement based physiotherapist, and we both studied together with these mahagurus in India and others as well. And the book that we wrote has lots in it. It's 480 pages with about 480 references, I think, in it, scientific references. But one of the key features that many people seem to like is the fact that we talk about not the three main bandhas that Iyengar talks about, mula, Bandha, Uddiyana, Bandha, chaladara, Bandha. But we really studied what the bandas are in all the extant texts, also what our teachers had said. And we came to the realization that Banda effectively on a scientific way of saying it is the CO activation, or simultaneous tensing of the muscles on muscle groups on opposing sides of a joint complex. And so when you see what jalandhara bandha really is and what Uddiyana Bandha, mulabanda is, then you recognize that this is what a banda is. But then the second revelation was that actually you can create a co activation of opposing muscles in two very opposing ways. So there are actually two extreme types of mula, Bandha, Uddiyana, bandha and jalandhara, bandha and Bandha. If you look at the Hatha Yoga text like get under Samhita Shiva Samhita Hatha Yoga, Pradipika, it says that when we talk about Hatha Yoga, it's the seventh stage system, whereas Ashtanga, a philosophical treatise, is an eight stage system, Yama, Niyama, Asana, Pranayama, etc. Hatha Yoga is a seven stage system, which begins with the first step kriya, second step, Asana, third step, Mudra, then pranayama. So mudra. When you look in the Hatha Yoga text, it says Mudra is about energy control. It's about making the energy flow through you. And so it's including posture, movement, breath control, mental control, to make energy flow. And so it says there are, in some text, 32 main mudras. And it lists them. It goes, there's NABO, Mudra, Maha Mudra, kechari, mudra. Then it goes, mula, Bandha, Uddiyana, bandha jalandhara. Buddha. So a banda is a subset of mudra. So bandha in our modern world, people think of as a way of stabilizing your joints. You know, actually you can create Bandar in terms of the CO activation of opposing muscles around each of the joint complexes. So you find these terms, and we've described them in our book, in the texts of India, Sid yoga, Kalari, payat, the martial arts, malakam of Indian yoga. So you can create AMSA Bandha, a stabilizing co activation around the shoulder. AMSA means shoulder. So you know, like, for example, they do postures like hamsasana, ha AMSA, where you put the shoulder in particular way to balance on your arms, or Hamsa mudra. Then there is also things like Mani Bandha. Mani is the wrist. So you can make the wrist doing its compressions in a way which stabilizes the wrist. Kulpa bandha for the ankle, Janu bandha for the knee, Karti bandha for the hip, kurpara bandha for the elbow. So you can create bandha at any of the joint complexes, and it's very effective in creating joint stability. I've got a whole course, for example, on on helping knee problems, and one of the key things is to learn how to co activate all the muscles around the knee. And I've had to do that since my 20s because I completely tore my anterior cruciate ligament. And so it's really important that you learn to use your muscles instead of your ligaments if you've lost your ACL, you know. So that's what I've been doing since I was in my 20s. Iyengar helped me with it. The fact that Iyengar said that there are three main Bundes usually suggests there's more. So the two key features are that we've isolated nine main Banda regions around the body, and there's more, but nine main ones around the nine main joint complexes, and then also recognize there's always two opposing forms, and the two opposing forms will affect as locks. So you've heard that bandha means lock, but a lock is either something which is locked like a shut door or open or unlocked like an open door. So you can make jalandhara bandha in the locked form, which prevents pressure going up to your head in pranayama. But if you lift your throat forward, move your throat forward, chin up, throat forward, chin up uses the same muscles as head down, neck back. If you bring head down, neck forward, that only tightens the front, makes you feel like a turtle. If you bring the head up and neck backward, that only tightens the back and that makes your neck hurt. By bringing your throat forward and the chin up, you create co activation of the muscles around the neck joint complex, and that will allow blood flow to go through the brain. So if you are meditating, it's really good to lift the chin up, and it opens the vagus nerve and helps blood flow come to your brain. But if you're doing pranayama, and you inadvertently do a valsalva maneuver, which increases intra abdominal pressure. You need your head down, otherwise you could create a stroke in your brain. You could burst a blood vessel. You could die, or, at the best, get a headache. So jalandhara bandha acts like a lock, which can be in its locked form or unlocked form, but you can see the exact analogy in your wrist. So in your wrist you can make a closed fist, which is like the jalandhara bandha of head down, neck back that tightens front and back of wrist. But if you open the palm, so palm forward, fingers back, that also tightens exactly the same muscles. But when you look on an infrared camera, then spread fingers will pull more blood into the hand and make the hand hotter, whereas a closed fist will push blood away from the hand and make the blood the hand colder. So by understanding bandha as a subset of Mudra, you have a key way of moving blood throughout the body and also stabilizing joints and affecting the nerves and especially the nerve reflexes. That's a quick summary of what we do in the book, but it's a fantastic book that we've just relaunched. The sales of it recently, it's going really well.

Todd McLaughlin: 44:26

That's cool, Simon, because I'm on your email list, and I recently received one that was explaining how the course works, and it got that's what got me really intrigued. I thought, well, that looks fascinating, so I can't Well, first of all, I can't wait to read your book, but that course sounds incredible, and I recommend everybody who's listening. The link for your website is in the description, so they can easily get on your newsletter. And you do really amazing whether you're doing the emails or whoever's working with you, you do a great job. They're really informative. So All right, next question, that was awesome. Thank you. That gave me so much to think about. I'm like, Oh my gosh. Like, I mean, to try to put the oppositional force, without just cranking in on something and understanding, trying to get that, that both side of the joint aspect, I feel like, I mean, one thought that popped in my head was like, I have so much new material to now apply when I practice, wow, I hope I remember all this. But luckily, we're recording this so I can come back.

Simon Borg-Olivier: 45:24

I want to say also, I do get some help though. I write all my material, but I've got a couple of really amazing people, David Carl, Kent, Manuela, Anna, who are really helping me try and make my online presence a bit better, because I'm not very good at that. It's never been my forte. So I want to acknowledge. All of those people who helped me sometimes with my bad writing and try and fix it up. You know, I never pump anything out. They're doing a good job.

Todd McLaughlin: 45:50

Yeah, they're amazing. And David was super nice in this process of organizing this so thank you. Number 10 in your work with back pain, and this is one that I really wanted to touch upon with you, because I do have my own personal issues, but in your in your work with back pain and movement therapy, what are some essential principles for practicing back pains or deep poses safely? I'm super curious about this. Yeah, yes,

Simon Borg-Olivier: 46:14

a very simple principle is, you know, most people's spines by the time they're adults in the modern world have ceased to function normally, naturally. So what's happened, especially because of the ongoing problem of seat, of being seated on chairs, for most people, five to 15 hours a day, is the front of the hips become very, very tense. The psoas especially, becomes very tense, and that muscle will join from your inside thigh to the lower back, and it goes through the front of the body, so essentially it will come to your lower back and make your lower back arch. And this is what gives people the shape of their lumbar curvature, which people think is natural, but actually some studies suggest that the natural spine is much more straight, and actually, the lumbar curvature is probably an artifact coming as a result of us sitting too much on chairs. And when you people make people exaggerate that lumber curvature by, you know, standing and lifting up their tailbone and pulling their shoulders down, most people don't like it. They bend too much at their l5, s1, and when you really study people's spines, and I spend a lot of time doing that as a physiotherapist. Most people have not got mobility at every vertebrae, you know, some children have, some adults have, but 95% do not. And so there is whole regions of people's spines which do not move at all, like you know from say, whole sections of the lumbar spine, the lumbar thoracic region, which don't move at all. There are whole regions of the upper thoracic spine, near the base of your neck, which do not move at all. And there are some parts to the spine, you know, in some people, only two or three vertebrae which move a lot. And my suggestion is to people, where you see your binds your spine bend easily. Bend it less. Where you see your spine does not bend. That's the part you should emphasize, bending. Otherwise, like a metal coat hanger, you bend back and forth 20 times in the same spot, it snaps and you like, like I said, I'm 65 but when I was 30 years old, you know, I was doing intense back bends, you know, really massive, you know, taking my hands back, grabbing my ankles, you know, pulling my feet in front of my face. And it was lots of fun. But then when I look at pictures of those things now, I see, oh, all the band was happening at l5 s1, 120 degrees, maybe l2 another 70 degrees, thoracic spine, maybe another 15, and the rest is not moving at all. And it wasn't a surprise then that in my mid 30s, my back really got bad, and I had really bad back pain for a couple of years. Then I started to realize, start to bend more forward at those vertebraes, the vertebrae that bend backward too easily, especially around the l5, s1, bent that part forward. The rest the bit that bends forward too easily bend backward. And one simple cue is, whereas in the normal world, we see people with the upper back bending forward and the lower back bending backward, just at least in part of your practice, try the opposite. So I say to people, bend forward below the top of the hips and try and bend backward above the top of the hips and into the upper back, that usually will rectify some of the problems that many people have. And mean, when you do that, then your back bends are going to be a lot better, especially in postures like veerabhadras and one the yoga the warrior posture. Bend forward in your lower back, below the top of the hips, then bend backward above then you get a better result.

Todd McLaughlin: 49:42

Excellent answer. Thank you. Thank you. People have such we have such a hard time with that, right, though, and I'm curious, because within the realm of what you said, of noticing the changes that have evolved over the last 40 years and the advent of the online world, and then this idea of, say, Instagram and posting really photos of beautiful photos, and those people get the most like. So then we think we need to copy that. So then when you tell somebody to bend less in the area, that's easy, there's a struggle. Would you say that that is one of the main things that you've noticed with the advent of the Internet component, that's causing people to try to imitate more, and that's why we're getting stuck in this. Or is, do you feel like this is something that's just coming from just good, old fashioned human and innate nature of like, I just want to do more. I want to be better. I want to be like, showing off more and getting attention and all that sort of stuff. I mean, I don't know. It just makes me think about that when you, as you brought that up,

Simon Borg-Olivier: 50:32

the combination of both those things, I agree with you. You know, the internet really spread a lot of things, but we're very simplistically based on trying to do. Things that look good, you know, not recognizing that feeling good is more important than looking good, you know, yeah, so I say to people that when you're 15, obviously looking good is more important than feeling good. But obviously, as an adult, we all know that feeling good is more important. Unless you're on Facebook or Instagram, then you have to look good, you know,

Unknown: 51:00

because you get to look good, but feel like crap

Simon Borg-Olivier: 51:03

exactly you do, you know. And with my social media, I mean, I've been at it since it started, really, you know, David's helped me a lot the last year or so. But when I started, I noticed this ongoing thing that if I do an outrageous, extreme posture, lots of likes, lots of clicks, then if I do a really simple movement, a gesture which, for me, brings a lot of energy and makes me feel good. No one's interested, you know. And it got pretty bad at one point that I actually wrote an article on it, and I got interviewed by someone and said this, and it backfired on me completely, because the woman said to me, do you have any photographs of yourself? So I gave her some. I gave her one picture, which she used of me balancing on one hand in ekahasta maurasan with my legs bound in lotus, so that I'm doing a bound Lotus one handed handstand, effectively. And she put that as the title. And all the people read the article went viral. They said, Yes, of course, people are doing too much fancy poses. And look at this guy. Look, he's doing this terrible fancy pose. No, no, you've missed my point. That's me, but so it backfired me completely, but it caused me a bit of problem. But really, yes, I agree with you. We're too focused on how it looks and not enough and how it feels. And people have to appreciate that those postures are fine to do the extreme postures. Like my daughter is now 21 she's been practicing with me since she was one day old, you know, and she did all the kids yoga stuff with me. And growing up, then, when she got to be a teenager, she started going to dance. And the last 10 years, she's worked in a circus. We're now at 21 for the last five years, she's the one of the senior aerial silks and flying trapeze coaches, so she can, you know, be on in the air, and she can just drop down on a silk and land in the splits with one leg behind her head and stuff like this. It's like the male calm which I learned in India, you know, 40 years ago, which is a national sport. They call it the wrestlers pole and the wrestlers rope. She does that. And I teach her extreme postures, because she's been doing it all her life, and she's got a great body, super strong. But when you're 2535 45 years old, been sitting on a chair for decades, and then you come to a yoga class, your body is not ready for this. You need simple movement. You know, don't try and pretend you're a child when you come start yoga as an adult, and that's perhaps a big thing that we need to really register who is practicing, because some extreme postures are fine, you know, great for the right people, right time, place.

Todd McLaughlin: 53:30

Oh, man, fascinating. Simon. I love this opportunity to talk to somebody with so much years of experience.

Simon Borg-Olivier: 53:37

Thank you. I like this weapon fire question because

Todd McLaughlin: 53:41

we got a long way to go in 10 minutes. So let me, let me prioritize. Here. Let me prioritize. Let me go down. Number 12, what role does breath play in movement therapy, especially for people with chronic pain or tension?

Simon Borg-Olivier: 53:54

Okay, an important feature of that is not learning how to breathe more or breathe in a specific way. It's rather to restore natural breathing. And if someone has natural breathing, they're more likely to be in a place where their chronic or acute problems can be healed. To heal chronic and acute problems, you need a healthy balance of your nervous system which has more parasympathetic dominance. You're mostly relaxed. And that's a good thing, because then your immune system, your digestive system, reproductive system, will start working optimally. Because if you've got an injury, which usually is something which is going to manifest as some sort of pain, you need to stimulate the immune system, which is almost like the architects you know, like, imagine a whole village was destroyed by a storm or get flooded, and all the buildings have to be destroyed. You have to take out away the buildings, bring back architects, builders and build it. You need a few things. You need architects which are like your immune system to redesign the place which has got a problem. You need the digestive system to be optimally functioning, to bring building blocks, you know, to take away the debris, to remove toxins, to bring new things you need also a healthy reproductive system. Reproductive system is not just about sex, not just about fertility, it's also about reproducing cells. And your cells will not regenerate unless you've got a healthy reproductive system. But these three organ systems will only work optimally when you've got three things happening. Number one is you must have the nervous system in parasympathetic dominance. You must feel relaxed stress will turn those systems off. Second thing is, you must have adequate blood flow so the immune system might be working when you're asleep, but it's not affecting. Positive because the blood is not circulating effectively. When you're asleep, you need to have blood flowing as much as you do when you're exercising to get healthy blood flow through the body in a way which is going to impact your organs of longevity, like immune, digestive, reproductive but for most people, when they're exercising, they're in stress, so then they're turning off the immune system. So you need the benefits of exercise and relaxation at the same time to get healthy blood flow with parasympathetic dominance, so your immune system, reproductive digestive system, are there to heal and regenerate the problem area. But you also need healthy movement of the body. You need to massage these internal organs, and that comes best when you use your muscles of breathing. So the two most important things about breathing are to breathe less, because less breathing brings more blood to the brain, calms the nervous system down more. But you need to maximize the use and control of your muscles of breathing. So for example, this is me breathing into my chest, breathing into my abdomen. But if you see I can do it without breathing, I can do the same thing without breathing and effect, effectively, what you want is to learn how to control your muscles of breathing, which include not just your diaphragm, but your spine. Because the spine has to breathe as well. It moves into extension flexion with every breath in a natural body. But you also have to control especially the other places in the body which regulate breath, including the places that I call the bridges between conscious and unconscious. Many people say that breathing is the link between body and mind, and it's not really the breath, it's your diaphragm. Your diaphragm is a muscle you can control consciously breathe into the abdomen. I did it. But while we're asleep, while we're talking, it's working by itself. So unlike your elbow, which is a conscious muscle, you know when you stop that it doesn't work anymore, that's a conscious muscle. Or the muscles in your blood vessels, like the arteries, have muscles which constrict or expand at different times. We can't control them consciously. So there's conscious muscles unconscious muscles, and there are very special places in the body which are a bridge between conscious and unconscious because they have dual control. The diaphragm is one of them. But so your eye muscles, the muscles are blinking. You can choose to blink, or sometimes it happens by itself. So your inner eye muscles are the same. You can look up to your Third Eye Center, but when you open the eyes of someone asleep, it happens by itself. Your jaw, your lips, your salivary muscles are also bridges between conscious and unconscious, your pelvic floor, front, back and middle, also bridges. Notice they have key aspects in traditional yoga these places, but also your fingers connection to shoulder, your psoas, sacroiliac joints, your neck. These are the bridges between conscious and unconscious, and when you can learn to control them and move them synchronously, then you start to regulate your breathing muscles, but you don't need to breathe so much. This is why I get people to make spinal waves, trunk waves, and relax as much as they're doing it. Then you're accessing natural breathing, but also regulating breathing at the same time. So in the beginning, I say to people, just breathe naturally, move naturally, and you'll start to breathe in a way the body dictates. So don't control your movement with the breath in the beginning. Make your movement regulate the breath. And a very simple thing to do is, if you were to stand and then lower your hips up and down, your hips will be extending and flexing, and when the hips extend and flex, they will pull your diaphragm up and down. So if someone stands and moves down on their toes, up on their heels like that, and does it slowly and gently, you can see and you can feel that coming up will cause inhalation, going down will cause exhalation. Lifting the shoulders will cause inhale, lowering the shoulders will cause exhale. So for beginners, I don't tell them to control their breath. I get them to relax, breathe naturally, and I move their body in a way that I control their movement. They control their movement, and their movement controls their breath, and it gives a much better result in the beginning, especially that's

Todd McLaughlin: 59:36

cool, almost like Don't, don't, not even saying, here, inhale, now, exhale, there, but more, move your body, then all of a sudden, let the breath naturally work with Yeah,

Simon Borg-Olivier: 59:46

that's cool. And actually tell people that I told them to expand and contract, which you can do independent of breathing, makes a

Todd McLaughlin: 59:54

big difference. Oh, man, that's awesome. Simon, I you know, I'm gonna jump to number 20 so that I can keep you be respectful of your time and keep our podcasts at the one hour. And this is one that I this is one that I'm curious about, I think will be fun for listeners, and especially anyone listening that already knows you and is familiar with your work. What's one thing your students would be surprised to know about you? Me. I mean, what do we not know? What have you kept hidden all these years? No, I'm kidding.

Simon Borg-Olivier: 1:00:32

They said I should keep my my they told me on the on this, on the internet, they said you should keep your password a secret. So my password is, my sister is adopted. I actually don't know. I'm pretty

Todd McLaughlin: 1:00:51

open. Yeah, right. What do I not know?

Simon Borg-Olivier: 1:00:56

I love life. You know? I really love life. Sometimes people seeing my talks might think he's very serious, you know, but I figure the most important thing is enjoy your life. It's a choice look after your body. It's the only one we've got, and then use that as a model for how you are in the world to help other people enjoy their lives, look after their bodies. You know, I'm an open book. If people want to come and talk to me, I'm happy to talk to them. You know, sometimes I say to people, I mean, when I'm teaching my courses, sometimes they're filmed, or I let people film and I say, look, some of the stuff we're doing looks completely mad. I'm happy for you to share it, to film it, but be careful what you share online, because often people have shared things with me about me online, and it's been misconstrued. So I'm happy to share any secret with the person in the right context. But some things, if you release the wrong time and place, people can misunderstand.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:01:51

Yeah, yeah. So true. That's so true. It gets taken out of context, and then our minds create our own context for the situation. It's not your fault. Simon, yeah, so.

Simon Borg-Olivier: 1:02:02

But if anyone wants to ask me about anything, I'm happy to talk to him about it. But I bought the chance to explain why I think the way I do. Because often what happens is when I say something outrageous on Instagram or Facebook and I do a short thing, I get attacked. How can you say that? Stretch less, breathe less? But then I say, let me explain. And they say, Oh, it's too much information. I can't read it because most people's three second attention span means you can say something outrageous, but unless it toes the line of what they're saying, they're not going to believe it. And then they're not interested. And if they do listen to it, they'll go, No, it's wrong. And then they say, explain. But then they won't listen when you try and explain. So it's hard to be outrageous and give secrets, you know,

Todd McLaughlin: 1:02:44

well, first off, thank you so much, Simon, because to take a whole hour with us and and really explain things the way you have, I feel like all of us are going to benefit from this, to take at least one of the little nuggets that you've given us to apply to our practice. And I like the fact that you made mention that it's really important to actually test these things. But on top of it, you've had so many years to put these things to the test. You did the hard work of going to teachers around the world and actually seeking out some of the greatest and best teachers that are that are there. Also I really appreciate your appreciation for all the indigenous cultures that have taught and instructed you along the way, ranging from India and Japan and China and all across the board and within Australia. And so I think that's admirable, and I like that you're putting attention on all of the people that have made it possible. But at the same time, you're pushing it, you're pushing the boundaries, and you're and you're really exploring, exploring and so with all your academic success as well, to bring the intellectual side the work that it takes to study and to complete degrees and to write books and to still have the verve and excitement that you just shared with us to teach and wake up early in the morning and just do a podcast with us. I just got to say thank you, and it's really inspiring and motivating for me and I I'm honored, and I just can't thank you enough.

Simon Borg-Olivier: 1:04:13

Thank you so much. It's actually been a real privilege and pleasure to do this, because I loved your racing questions. My only regret is that I talk so fast. No, it's good. It's good. We need that slow down version of my voice. I need to excited.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:04:26

Maybe next time, I'll come with one question, and I'll let you talk real.

Simon Borg-Olivier: 1:04:33

Really, a pleasure to be here with you, and I have so much passion for this. And really, you know, although I've learned so much, my great masters all over the world, I'm sure each of them would look at me and go, you haven't learned enough, and I'm still see you're seeking information, and I still see some of my great teachers today. Some of them are still alive, and I love them, and I learned so much, and I also learned from all of my students. I've learned from you, I learned from everyone, and I think all of us need to acknowledge this. We've never learned enough, we could continue learning, exploring all our life. I think I said to you before the podcast started, that we were blessed to be given this avatar, this body we live in, but they didn't give us the instruction manual. So my quest is to find out how this thing works, to give health, happiness and longevity to myself, and to be able to put it into the rest of the world, help other people achieve the same things, you know, and it's an ongoing struggle and ongoing quest, but I'm passionate for it. I love it.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:05:27

Oh man, well, your humility is infectious. And thank you so much, Simon. I really can't wait to release this out into the world. Thank you, sir. Thank you, brother.

Simon Borg-Olivier: 1:05:35

It's such a pleasure to be here with you. I'm looking forward to seeing it, and I'm really enjoying my time talking to you. So thank you. Very much. Keep up the great work. I think you're doing an amazing job, and I'm happy to share some material with you, and anyone who writes to me, I'll share that with them as well.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:05:49

Oh, thanks, Simon. Have a wonderful day. Namaste.

Simon Borg-Olivier: 1:05:52

Thank you very, very much. Thank you. Bye, bye.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:05:55

Thank you for listening to this episode of native yoga. Todd cast with Simon. Borg Olivier, what did you think, I mean, that was amazing. I cannot wait to get some yoga going right now and put some of the ideas that he put forth to the test. I'm deeply grateful to Simon for sharing his inside stories and wisdom with all of us. If you felt moved, challenged or inspired by today's conversation, please take a moment to reach out to Simon directly through his website at Simon Borg olivier.com explore his work, connect and continue the conversation. Reach out to us info at Native Yoga Center website. Native yoga center.com We'd love to hear from you. Share the episode with your friends. Leave a comment, send us a message, tag us in the social media. Your voice matters, and your experience could inspire someone else until next time, keep breathing, keep practicing, keep bringing awareness in every moment. See you soon. Native yoga, Todd cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you like this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com, and hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends. Rate it and review and join us next time you

Unknown: 1:07:52

well, you.