Michael Wagner | Near-Death Experience, Sri Dharma Mittra & the Path of Yoga

Michael Wagner is a seasoned yoga instructor, specializing in Dharma Yoga since 2009. Originally from Germany, Michael's journey into yoga began with a career in modeling and acting in New York City, where he encountered method acting and subsequently sought balance through yoga. Michael's teachings are shaped by his significant experiences, including training under renowned yoga master Sri Dharma Mittra. Currently, he resides in London, where he continues to share his passion for yoga, drawing from his diverse background in wellness, fitness, and an enriching near-death experience that deepened his spiritual insight.

Visit Michael: https://www.instagram.com/michaeldharmayoga/

Key Takeaways:

• Michael Wagner's journey from Germany to yoga realization in New York City showcases the power of yoga in achieving spiritual balance and inner peace.
• Training under Sri Dharma Mittra played a crucial role in Michael's professional and personal development, embedding principles of non-violence and self-realization into his practice.
• Michael’s near-death experience was pivotal, reducing his fear of death and solidifying his commitment to living a fully present, spiritually enriched life.
• The benefits of yoga extend beyond physical fitness, influencing mental clarity, emotional wellbeing, and fostering a deeper understanding of self.

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Transcript

Todd McLaughlin: 0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast, so happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage, body work and beyond. Follow us at @nativeyoga and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin. Hello. Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast, I'm really happy that you are here. I have a special guest today for you, Michael Wagner, and please go follow Michael on Instagram. His handle is at @MichaelDharmayoga. I have the link in the description so it's easy for you to find I really hope that you enjoyed listening to this conversation. I really did myself. I think Michael has such a nice, calm, insightful, peaceful way of observing his own experience in life and how yoga has helped him to get a good, strong foothold and way of sharing his insight and experience and appreciation for having a yoga teacher, Dharma Mittra, and for his ability to teach In London, England, all right, so with all that being said, let's go ahead and start. I'm so excited to be here with Michael Wagner today. Michael, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule. Can you tell me a little bit about how you're feeling today?

Michael Wagner: 2:16

Hi Todd. And such a pleasure and honor to be on your show, so to speak, right? Thank you.

Unknown: 2:24

It's Well, I think Andrew right, who made an introduction about me, who told you a little bit like about me, but I'm happy to Yeah, tell you anything. Of course, I'm originally from Germany. Michael Wagner. Michael Wagner, as you want to call me American style. And yeah, so I'm a yoga teacher, dharma yoga teacher since 2009 nice.

Todd McLaughlin: 2:57

And I just want to preface I know prior to us conversing, you were concerned about the internet quality, so I'm just out in the front and open. Want to mention that if, for some reason, it gets a little glitchy, that that's no big deal, and we'll keep it going, and we're just, I'm really so grateful to have access to this type of technology where I can, I can meet you. You're in you're in England. Now, am I correct? Are you in Germany? I'm in London. You're in London. So here I I get to meet you, you know, and hang out with you for an hour here, and and, and this would never be possible without the Internet. So I'm so grateful that we, we have this technology, Florida, right in Palm Beach. Yeah, very so in a town called Juno Beach, which is in Palm Beach County, so we're, yeah, about an hour and 15 north of Miami.

Unknown: 3:50

Wow, yeah, beautiful. We just have visited before, right? That's a good way to start. Maybe, yeah, yeah, a little bit,

Todd McLaughlin: 3:59

I guess. Please tell me, when did you spend time in Florida?

Unknown: 4:02

Yeah, I was living at that time in New York from 2003 onwards. And in 2007 I was also like, 2006 2007 I was like, going to Miami for the season. But down there, like to spend a little time away from New York, you know, the winter months, and so I actually was studying acting at that time. Method, acting in New York, very intense. Method, the Eric Morris method, amazing. However, it goes quite deep in, like, almost like a little bit of a psychotherapy way, right? And so to snap out of some of the scenes, parts the place, I had to find something really to. Balance, and I didn't know what it was, so I went to Miami at the time and had my friend that I met on a casting. I have to say I was still doing modeling as you know, I'm still doing on the side, a little on, you know, let's say occasions and a bit of acting as well now in London. But the friend of mine, who was also like modeling friend, who also said, like, you know, he was talking about yoga and how actors also, like, have that maybe practice to perhaps find a little bit like opening, like, maybe calming the mind and such. He was presenting it quite well. But, I mean, it was all quite new to me. I have to say, 2007 my knowledge of yoga was zilch, absolute, nowhere, and so he introduced me. He invited me to a community yoga class that he was teaching for the city of Miami in Bayfront park downtown. Yes, do you know it? I do, I

Todd McLaughlin: 6:22

do. I've seen quite a few concerts there.

Unknown: 6:24

Yeah, amazing, yeah. There is a pavilion, like pavilion, sorry, German, English, the basically, like outside space was just so gorgeous. And like a big group of, you know, always, he was teaching twice a week, or three times, actually, per week. Like 40 to 60 people, from like teachers to like children, you know, all levels nice. It was lovely. And so it was the first time that he brought me to the class where, I have to admit, I think, postponed about three times. You know, took a rain check. I wasn't really ready for it, I think. But then, you know, you let go of the thoughts, and perhaps I just allowed it. And it was the Dharma yoga practice that he taught to us, and I want to say a few minutes into the practice, he was a very good teacher, too. I can name him with with pride. He's a good friend of mine from Argentina. His name is Augustine, if he ever listens to this amigo.

Todd McLaughlin: 7:36

What is his last name? August I have to

Unknown: 7:39

say, really thank you, because, like he, he brought me into the practice, at least where I was still eating meat, I was nowhere like ready to be honest with where you should be ready, as far as, like, even going, you know, from the first step, Ahimsa is like Dharma always, like, reminds us the first step of non violence, right, the yamas and niyamas. So that's it. You know, it like, hit me quite hard, and I knew, like, the first practice was the most intense I've ever remember, because it was the first where I understood what it is. Maybe, you know, in this sense of my own experience, you have to let go. You have to just let go in the postures. You have to, like, trust your body, right? You have to just let go the fear of hurting yourself and like, you need to, you know, trust a little bit in yourself. And that's that's really like, to me, the practice too, perhaps, and in the moment, yeah, I understood it in for me, that was like when I fell in love with it. You can say, three months later, I went back to New York and met Dharma with introduction of Augustine, like he brought me to the old center on Third Avenue. And, yeah, it was the old ashram. I don't know if you know the it still exists as another yoga center, and he, you know, enters the room, and that was like my first experience with Dharma in an, I want to say, real ashram with a living Master that enters the room. And for me, it's like it was life changing, changing my way of even perceiving life itself, to be honest, because he's, you know, he's a very powerful spirit being however you want to, you know, put it, he's an, you know, incredible, just also blissful self to meet, you know, and I know you spoke to him also on this podcast, which, and you know, honors me even more, just, you know, as the man. Master have have the privilege to also be in this so when I met Dharma in 2007 I did the first class on a Wednesday, I remember, and it was like the open level class. The times have changed. Obviously he was a little younger. Now he's 86 and but incredibly strong, like in his practice, and back then, even tougher, I want to say, and, yeah, I mean, I want to say, physically killed myself in this class, and I stayed for the kirtan after, which was exactly what also, I guess, opened a little bit like my heart, to the practice my spirit was that the

Todd McLaughlin: 10:54

enthusiast was that the first time, was that the first time that you had also been exposed to Kirtan, to

Unknown: 11:01

bhakti. And,

Todd McLaughlin: 11:02

yeah, made so you're coming in, you're having these really incredibly deep yoga practices. Then you're starting to come into the singing.

Unknown: 11:10

And dharma was talking a lot after, you know, and he was staying for the character and singing with us and and there was another artist there, and the people how they were so, like, going for it, and, yeah, nice, can I say it? It right away triggers something in me, like, you know, gets me a little more thinking about it, because it was just such a wonderful first experience. So, you know, thanks to Augustine, thanks to dharma himself back then, because that was, you know, I guess the birth for me of even, like being like somewhere, like, interested in yoga. So I've continued the practice. Jumping forward six months, I was improving my practice, but I was still eating meat, you know. And I was like, still, not really, like, you know, carrying up my diet, such, you know, and, but, you know, always being like, in fitness and gyms and like, into like, nutrition, of course, but, you know, in a in a very much, like, less yogic way. So yeah, he when my practice wasn't really going from, like one level to the next, I was like, What can I do? And dharma said, Well, you know, try out maybe to, you know, eat, just vegetarian for a little while. And so I tried it out for, you know, the six weeks, eight weeks, I was, like, setting a goal for, and it really changed something. I mean, like, also, like, my flexibility improved incredibly. And the, yeah, so, like, somehow, also my digestion, everything, like felt softer and more relaxed and like it's just like, it's such a different feeling. Yeah, so I've stick to it, you know, ever since I have, you know, my experiences of going back when I went back to Germany and saw my mum for Christmas, and she had made some duck awful after, like that feeling and, and I have to say that this is one big like sentence that dharma repeated more often back then. You heard him say it a lot, because, like Swami boa, I think if you heard of him, it was a teacher, also one of his friends. He, I think he left his body at, I think 126 or something like that, right. Became very, very old, and he was teaching up until the very end. And they were like walking, jogging in the in the central park together. And he was saying, like Swami boss always says, like, don't make your stomach a graveyard. And to me, that really took me by my on, my inner understanding, my what, what is it? And he's like, you know, the stomach is the altar, right? So you, that's what you serve to yourself, to your higher self, your soul, right? Your your heart center. And perhaps, if you, you know, put it that way, that sentence made me a vegetarian. And, yeah, it is quite punchy. So for me, I think perhaps it's almost too much to say, but you know, in a way like it, that's what it is like you. You need to change perspective when. Want to start, like to be serious about maybe your yoga, yoga practice. It depends for everyone who's you know, willing and open and ready perhaps, to commit, I suppose, right. I hear, yeah.

Todd McLaughlin: 15:14

I I'm curious, what was your Did you have any key experiences in your childhood that you think may have kind of set you up for being interested in yoga. I find a lot of people I get to speak with will will have some sort of experience that, even though that won't connect them directly toward a yoga practice right away, but then 10 years, 1520, years later, all of a sudden it'll be like, Whoa. I'm having this ability to look back on my life and see how these events probably primed my interest in spiritual and or yogic practice. Is there anything that you remember from your childhood that may have played a part in that

Unknown: 16:04

absolutely so I have to say, at age 12, I found out by a doctor who took an x ray of my spine lower back, because I had some pain issues, like, maybe I thought, like, it was like the, you know, when you grow up fast, and I was at age 12, already 184 that's, I think, roughly six foot. And, you know, already taller than my dad. And, you know, maybe at 70 to 74 kilos, so athletic, ish like, but not like, you know, I felt like some lower back pain when I just lie down in bed at night. And so then, like, I know, the the doctor told me, like, back then it's a congenital spinal defect, right? So I hope I phrase it right and correctly. So it's the lower spine they see. The lower five discs are, like, pushed forward a little. And so to speak, I've had to always, like, learn how to keep, like he said, you know, you have to always keep your abdominal muscles and lower back muscles very strong. I could never, you know, get bigger, let's say obese, or get a big belly. And like, I would need a surgery. In case. On the worst case, he said, maybe in your 40s or so you you would need a surgery, right? And maybe, like, you could actually end up in the wheelchair, right? And that at age 12, well, that was my motivation, really, to have some sort of like physical practice, right? So I've started really, my dad bought me some, you know, equipment, and I've started to train every day before I went to bed like, you know, 20 minutes was my practice like, and that was like, the foundation for physical practice. But then at age 18, my father passed away, unfortunately, and so he when he died, and I remember like when I Well went inside the room and I felt that he already left. The physical was still there, the body was still there. But I knew, I felt, I knew that he was like the spirit was gone already. As a rainy day I went outside, and then I felt him there, you know,

Todd McLaughlin: 19:00

wow. Interesting, interesting, like that.

Unknown: 19:03

Yeah, it's something like key experiences where I thought, okay, there's something that leaves the body when you die. And maybe not, because I'm, this is the thing. My mom is very like Catholic, you know, I love her to bits. She's a she's 92 she just turned 92 Wow, right? I see her for, for her birthday, just came back from Germany, and she's, she's, well, you know, for her age, however, she didn't do enough yoga in her youth as she should have, right? Anyways, yes, you know, she gave me, like, that spiritual sense, the way of like, the connection that you could say, Yes, I I've always believed in whatever you want to call it, you know, that higher power, whatever you know, you don't need to use the G word, right? You can add. Me were that doesn't matter to me. It's also your higher self, or like, maybe there's something beyond the material. And I've had one proof, maybe at 18, when my father passed, when I had had this sort of first also sense of spirit. And then we're also when I was 23 I can tell you that I had a near, near death experience in South Africa. I was in Cape Town, and quickly, because it's obviously, it's a long story, but let's just say, I was with friends. I was talking on a banana muffin out of a sudden. Age 23 I wasn't really prepared for that, but I literally, I mean someone, you know, I'll go Go and drink some and on the way to the kitchen, my friends told me I passed out. You know, consciousness was gone, and in the moment when my Well, when I fell down, I felt I was leaving my body, I can say it like that. And I was drifting away, watching myself lying, lying down right, and all I can say in that moment, there were no thoughts, and all I was or felt was Love, okay, like the sum everything, the sum of love. Loved moments, anything like, you know, and there were no thoughts, and it was like no fear. And I was, it was a blissful feeling going home. That was my Yes, yes. Then I just try, like, and obviously, it's maybe unbelievable for many people, but this is, you know, like one of the main experiences that actually probably made me a yoga teacher, because the first time I knew that there is, there is a body that you we experience, that we live with, that we, you know, have to have. Also, of course, with that, without the body, there is no mind, right? But there is the mind, yes, right? And, but there's maybe something that doesn't die, doesn't get killed in the moment of, you know, when you pass, passing so energy, whatever you want to call it, you know, for me, like there's something that when I felt in this moment was only bliss, and I'm going home right. And then the moment I look back, I see my friend, and he comes up, and I'm, I'm fat, like I'm pale, and I don't know how long, maybe a minute or two, I was, you know, out no breath. I, you know, I couldn't, there was no way that I could do anything. And, yeah, I saw myself lying. And my friend came and he, he was in the Navy before for nine years, he said, and he, he did the Heimlich maneuver, heimak, however you pronounce it in America, right? And so in the moment when he's put took me, took me up, and he's trying to make me reanimate. He like, the first thought entered like, and I look back, and I was like, No, I can't I can't die now. I can't leave now. I have to see my mum again, right? And so it was the first thought that kind of attached me again, to the body. I want to say I was when you, when you let go, you let go like to me, I believe, like this experience also took the fear of death of me like I'm not afraid like for me. Yes, there's pain and suffering, and of course, that is part of life, perhaps, but if you can let go, there's nothing to fear. And yes, I couldn't, because I needed to see my mom again. And then I, you know, the next thought, I have to see my sister and all the love, right? And it's basically, you're so we are so attached by love, of course, which is, you know, to me, also very important, like the experience, or like to allow yourself to and it brought me back, obviously, next moment, got up the muffin, a piece of muffin, and I remember it was like someone pulling out, like my first breath, like pulling out like an eye. And brush out of my lungs so pain first breath, it was like the first blessing. And I was like, I was back in my body, and I was, What can I say? It was the I knew that every breath is a blessing of God. That's Here we go. I did say the G word, and for me, it changed completely, everything like and I knew that Well, number one, it wasn't, maybe not the moment for me to die. Maybe there's, you know, maybe the moment is already fixed. Who knows? You know, believing destiny and such karma or whatever you want. But maybe also while you are alive, you should really appreciate it. You should really just appreciate just the little things and just breathing itself. And here we go, breath pranayama. We're going into yoga. Maybe I was too young at 23 to start, because my mind was not ready. Perhaps, right, yes. But years later, obviously, moving to New York, the whole history, I'd say, Dharma, of course, if you meet your guru, to me, it's very simple, if you have somebody to look up like, in like completeness and some, you know, role model, you know, in this sort of way that you're knowing that like this is where, yeah, you want to work towards doing like you want to be, maybe even a little bit like Dharma, like, you know, Sri Dharma, Mitra, as his name, says, like the, you know, the inner calling, or the duty to be everyone's friend, right? Translated, so to speak, and to me, that's what he is like when you when you meet Dharma, he he meets you as your friend, and he would teach everyone the same way. And for me, that is profound, you know, to not divide and not have some you know, like to me the yes the ego has to be, kind of staying outside the studio if you really want to be, you know, such accomplished Yogi as he is. And I have to say, with all admiration, like he's he is, you know, there we go.

Todd McLaughlin: 27:38

That's awesome. Michael, so then at that point, when you started to get deep in on the practice you currently teach yoga, what was the transition for you to feel confident and comfortable, to start to share your understanding of yoga with others? Mm, hmm.

Unknown: 28:44

Well, for me, it's again, the master, the teacher, that you need to copy. As he always says, copy the master, copy the master. And I have to understand that too. I had to understand that like gradually, and I still do. The thing is like, you know, what do you copy? What can you be? What can you be good in? What maybe, like your teacher is showing you, right? And so you need to find out, I guess. And for me, I found out that, well, I'm literally maybe it's my, my little bit of acting training that perhaps help. But I literally feel like, Oh yes, I have to tell you one experience that is probably that key. You need to find the connection. You need to find what is real in you, what like reflects really like you know, also who you truly are. Maybe you find the connection. Whatever style of yoga you teach, there are so many wonderful ones. To me, if you have a master that you can meet, if you've met even once, and to me, like this is the power of a guru, perhaps over distance, right? Like, because I've moved away from New York, moved back to Germany, steel Hamburg, 2009 10 to like, 2016 when I moved to London. So I was teaching, like in my first like groups, small groups like that. I started, like a Pilates studio, doing some workshops, and, you know, just to get, you know, some people interested, because I tell you, in 2009 2010 and. A long time ago. I mean, yoga was, I mean, still very niche. And Dharma yoga, I was the first accredited Dharma yoga teacher in Germany, as far as I'm aware of, I know that there were like, you know, after like in Berlin and Munich, other teachers slowly popping up over the years. But in Hamburg, I was like, you know, all these years, like, just by myself. So just even cover a class, you would have to change style, of course, right? Yes, it's, it's very tricky to be the first and only, but you know, it was also a challenge that you know wanted to accept, knowing that well, what makes really Dharma yoga, dharma yoga, right? And for me, it's that authentic way, like the the the unbroken lineage that you can feel, sensed, perhaps by this spiritual wisdom, as always you know, Dhamma says, like sharing like to share your spiritual knowledge is the highest charity, right for me to see this, like lived in, like teaching, like that you learn from, and perhaps you, you know, try to get as close as possible a copy of this, You know, perhaps over the years, also, let's say the, you know, when we talk about authenticity and people, some people say, Well, you know, you know, Sri Dharma, like he's just, you know, just a great teacher, you know. Others say, well, he's, you know, the True Guru. Maybe he's got some CDs. Maybe not. You know, look, I can tell you 2000 I did my teacher training. Another, you know, unbelievable thing, perhaps for many, but Well, after about two, three days into the teacher training, which was extremely intense somehow, like, Well, we were already introduced, like to, like, level one, level two. Back then, curriculum changed a little. And so yes, we had, like, one gentle DOM yoga class, like I remember, but all the others were just like, it was just incredible. I mean, I'm, I'm an athletic person. I believe somehow I was, and I was what, 3031 32 right? And, yeah, I mean, dharma literally killed us back then, I have to say for me. I mean, I remember, like in classes where, like, I knew I was just dead, and I had to keep going, right, and you have to keep going and you just are. It is so tough, but so amazing, of course, because at some point, if you let go, the body moves by itself. There is this, like extra reserve tank opening, right? And that is when you let go the mind, let's let let go. And you basically go beyond your own limit. And that's when I started to when I went home after practice being completely, like, knackered, tired, exhausted, everything after, like, maybe eight, nine o'clock, even, like late at night, came home and I went, went into the subway in New York, and the first time When I thought like, when I thought, like, I'm hearing like the holy om, right, which is just, of course, you wouldn't, right. Why? Like, Does it even exist, right? The mind says, But I tell you what, I went home and I went into the shower and, like, I guess water is some sort of, like, good trend, trends transmitter you have, you know, like some, I guess, in even, like smaller place, you can maybe, maybe hear it better. So, but how? So, right? So, I mean, over two or three days, I was hearing it during the teacher training. And in the second day, it was very, very subtle, okay, but I could hear like and I was first thinking now, and I I'm maybe hearing it too much in this in the center, maybe it's just, you know, it's almost in my subconscious, and it's just like. Hear it like that, I'm projecting it. Let's just say, right, yeah. Well, questionable, because the next day I went, I mean, into the center, and I asked around, and there was, like, another two of 49 people that also heard the Holy om. They were like, also, think they were going mad, right? One friend I remember, and so I went to Adam, Adam, who's of you know, also of the center, one of the highest disciples, you know, serving with Dharma, under dharma. And he told me, like, when I asked, like, is it possible to hear the holy om? And he said, Well, if you, if you're already tuned into it, right? So it's like, you could say, like, a radio frequency that you, if you change the frequency, and if you obviously, like, maybe raise a little bit, like, consciousness, your energy with nutritions, I was like, having wheatgrass shots left and right, which, by the way, amazing, like, you can get them all away all the way in in America, everywhere, not in England, not in Germany, is very niche thing. Have you had wheatgrass shots that really stimulates as well, like, these sorts of, like, with the enzymes, like, amazing, you know, and if you, if you watch your nutrition over a certain time, and you go really, like, of course, intense in the Practice, and you allow yourself to, you know, the psychic development and do your pranayama. And I mean, it's incredibly powerful. What yoga, really as a science, is. And I have to say, I couldn't believe it, but I promise you, you know, I've heard it for three days. And I was when I heard it like when I kept hearing it, I was like, Okay, what, what to do with this, right? So I tried to just close my eyes and see what, what comes with it. And so I've, yeah, you can say, maybe you have some intuition, perhaps you need to trust and let's just say, I know the purpose maybe of that, right? Perhaps, like Dharma, has that sort of power, maybe also, you know, to kind of give you that sort of glimpse, maybe, and perhaps make you know that maybe the when he says, like, the goal is self realization, right? Yoga, the goal is self realization to well, to understand your ego self, your higher self, like whoever you are really, then perhaps, you know, like, maybe like Siddhartha, when also, I think was it Herman Hesse wrote Siddhartha, if you read the book and he hears the holy om, right? I've read the book after and I was like, this is I believe that really, Herman Hasse must have heard it too, because the way he described it was, to me, like proof for that. And I, I do believe it's possible, even in my own experience, after what, you know, many years. However, I can say that like, you know, I've had many people debate with me about this, and I love to debate things about, you know, of course, things that you your mind doesn't want to believe, but you have to really allow, like maybe some of those Well, extraordinary experiences, maybe that you can have with yoga, if you're open for it, Any meditation and with psychic development, which is, you know, probably one of the most powerful practice in Dharma yoga too. It's, yeah, it's got something that I believe is so not only of authenticity, but also of that origin of Patanjali, of the Yoga Sutras. It goes really thoroughly into the science, really of Self Realization. And for me, all of these experiences, obviously are connected and brought me, maybe to this point, to. London. And I tell you, you know, London is not like the easiest city to live, so it's like New York, you know, I've been there. It's not Florida, yeah, and yeah, that's amazing.

Todd McLaughlin: 41:00

I mean, I think you're doing a really great job of explaining the experience. And also I like that you are not You're not making us assume that you know exactly the best way to explain it. You know, like when you said, I like to have debates about this. I realize there's things that people will say, How's that even possible? Is that just our imagination? Are we reading it? And therefore, because we read slash, hear it, do we then believe that it's there? And do we put it there, or is it there? And are we listening? And I guess this this morning, I woke up and felt a fair amount of fear, like, sometimes I'll wake up and I'll feel, I don't know if it's like existential dread, or I don't know something where my mind will just be there. So I, I got up. It was dark. It was five, 5am I thought, let me walk my dog, and, you know, I'm just going to use music this morning. And so then I just asked, like, who should I listen to right now that would be good to get my mind a little more less fearful, because I really like what you said about having an out of having a near death experience can cause one to feel like it's going to be okay. I have nothing to be scared of. So if the worst case scenario, the worst thing that could happen is that I die, then if knowing that that is not something to be scared of, then really, I have nothing to fear, right? So I could go through life not being fearful. So I put on Bob Marley, his album Exodus, his song natural, mystic. And so as I was listening to the lyrics this morning, he's saying, there's a natural mystic blowing through the air. And if you listen carefully, you can hear and I just started thinking about the eternal om, like, what you're talking about, like, you know, even cross culturally. And I mean, a lot of the a lot of the deep wisdom of the cultures of the world, ever since the beginning, have been kind of tapped into being able to get the radio frequency to a place where we can feel that there's a presence and there's something more than us, and there's a way that we're going to merge back into it or or we're already merged into it, you know? And so I guess I'm really appreciating everything you're saying, and I like the delicate way that you're explaining it, and I can relate and I understand what you're saying. So, um, thank you so much.

Unknown: 43:37

My pleasure. I think you know, everyone has to have some sort of experience in themselves to really make it feel like it's real, right? Like, let's say you can talk about yoga, right, or you can talk about meditation, right, but to really do it or like, to really, like, let it affect you. That to me, is a choice. One has to be open for that to be receptive, right? Like, like, dharma always say, be receptive to me. If you're not receptive, if you're blocking, right? In meditation, of course, you you're doing the opposite, right? So you're, you're needing to let go, be receptive? And for me, yeah, I think you're, you know, as a practitioner, as a teacher, you have to be also receptive for maybe, you know, the good students, the maybe also the maybe bad mood students to come into your center or like studio, if you know, if you want to teach, you need to teach everyone the same way. That, to me, is like one, like big lesson, and I teach people that have, you know, even disabilities and for me, it's so important like to see like, the progress and the improvement, like, even like, you know, taught some football team in Hamburg, you know, men, obviously Men's Yoga, right? And to see their like, not only like injuries less and the recovery like faster, to speed up. And to see like their sleep improving, as they told me, and their you know, everything, like the mind is settling and like you get more focused. Was more concentrated people with like disabilities or with like even with, you know, strokes, sort of the after conditions, right by any disease, to me, like when they can improve their health and you can see the improvement. You can see like how their speech is improving, or things like that. You thought like, are never being able by by yoga practice. But yes, you know that, to me, is like the magic that you have to be open for it. You need to be well, allow it. Let's say, or let it be, so to be, you know, so to speak, and when, yeah, let's say, I teach in gyms. People want their physical practice on their sweat. They want their, you know, they want to do their handstands and split soon, right? That is the most important, of course, you can teach and please, people like that. But I love the way that, let's say yoga, goes way beyond the physical, and that is it. You have to transcend the physical to understand yourself the mind. And to me, mind is over matter really, right? And, yeah, that's the difference. I think, like you have to be,

Todd McLaughlin: 47:06

yeah, oh man, I hear you. Michael, well said, I really can feel and tell that you are loving it, deep in it, enjoying sharing it.

Unknown: 47:17

I do love to teach, yeah, I do love to teach yoga. But look, without, I have to say without Dharma, I would not be a teacher. I don't think I can. I can just tell by like I know how he affected me, how he changed my perspective, and that's it. If you find the right teacher, it doesn't matter who really the teacher who speaks to you and make makes you not only come back to class, right? So you feel like, yeah, I feel accepted. I feel like, you know I really appreciated this, and I want to Yes, maybe experience it more, but it's also like maybe letting you unfold your own self practice or making you understand your body better, like I teach one on one as well. And I love that sort of personal experience where you have, you know, the individual has his or her, like, condition, right, age, anything right and so you have to really adjust the practice to the exact condition. And for me, that is what also like. I love to well adjust and perhaps help people even through times when maybe they have injuries, right and they need to recover, or they have conditions that need to somehow be improved, and for me, like, that's why I also, like, you know, the not only the asana practice, but also going, you know, with the breathing pranayama and the meditation, for me, that is where also you can affect people like children, right? You can, you know, help people like elderly and such, like people who maybe wouldn't really even try yoga like me back then, but I'm grateful that I did.

Todd McLaughlin: 49:30

Oh, man, amazing, Michael. I'm so grateful to hear, I know we had such a short amount of time together, and I'm, you know, I just went fast. It goes by so fast, doesn't it? It's like, I know I just looked at the clock, and I'm like, wait a minute. Well, I just really appreciate you, and like the care that you put into telling us your story about how much yoga really benefits you, and I can feel it, and I'm just so grateful that you. Thank you so much for just taking time out of your day and sharing all that with us. We really appreciate it and

Unknown: 50:07

pleasure to meet you online, and hopefully one day, like when I come to Florida,

Todd McLaughlin: 50:13

yes, crack

Unknown: 50:14

under the pavilion, and you know Bayfront park

Todd McLaughlin: 50:18

that would be awesome, and you should have a revival there that would be cool. Bayfront said, amazing. That's a great little place. That's a great big place to have a yoga practice, and I had never

Unknown: 50:30

even do a work there together. How about it?

Todd McLaughlin: 50:32

Oh my gosh. Let's do it. Michael, that'd be awesome. I know. I know. I um, will keep me posted please when you are coming stateside. And I'll do the same if I make it your way, and I would really love that. Thank you so much. Michael, my pleasure.

Unknown: 50:48

Thank you so much. Thank you all the best

Todd McLaughlin: 50:56

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