Pat and Bernie Driver: Engineering, Family, and Fulfillment | #33

Pat and Bernie Driver are Tom's grandparents on his dad's side. This interview took place back in August of 2021, Tom interviews them about their entire life, starting out with their childhood and going through their years as parents and then grandparents. They discuss what it was like for them growing up in the 1940s and 1950s. They talked about Tom's grandfather's career, he worked on some of the earliest computers, working on early versions of software and the computer's hardware. He also loves to work on cars. So they discuss automobiles for a while. Tom's grandmother won a beauty contest so they talk about that experience. They discuss raising kids and what makes a good parent and even their experience raising Tom because they spent a lot of time with Tom when he was a baby. They also own several properties. So they talk about their experience as landlords and what it takes to manage properties. They talk about their involvement with their church and what it takes to live a healthy life and maintain a healthy relationship.

Transcript

Tom 0:00

Hello everyone. My name is Tom Driver, and welcome back to another episode of the Drive program. Today, my guests are Pat and Bernie Driver, and they are my grandparents on my dad's side. This interview actually took place back in August of 2021. I interviewed them about their entire life, starting out with their childhood and going through their years as parents and then grandparents. So we covered a lot of ground here. We talked about what it was like for them growing up in the 1940s and 50s. We talked about my grandfather's career. He actually worked on some of the earliest computers, working on early versions of software and the hardware. He also loves to work on cars. So we discussed automobiles for a while. My grandmother won a beauty contest. So we talked about that experience. We talked about raising kids and what makes a good parent, and even their experience raising me because they spent a lot of time with me when I was a baby. My grandparents also owned several properties. So we talked about their experience as landlords and what it takes to manage properties. And then we talked about their involvement with their church and what it takes to live a healthy life and to maintain a healthy relationship. So there's a lot of great wisdom that they were able to share with me during this interview. I'm very, very grateful for this conversation. So I hope you guys enjoyed this episode as much as I did. This is episode 33 of the Drive Program with guests Pat and Bernie Driver. You wanna tell me the story about the rabbit?

Pat 2:06

Do you hear me?

Tom 2:08

I hear you.

Pat 2:09

Okay. What what I was gonna tell you, Tom, was that in the spring there were some little rabbits outside. Well once and so one day I just said, Comey, come in, gummy, gummy, come in, gummy! Come on, come on. And he perked up his little ears and he went hop, hop, hop, hop, hop, and came and ate some food out of my hand. So from spring to now in August, he's still out there, and we can go walk by, do everything. And we always know which one is him because there's three of 'em, and all we have to do is put a foot out the door and the other two just run right away.

Tom 2:49

Wow. That's so cute. Have you named this bunny?

Pat 2:52

It'sy.

Tom 2:53

It'sy. That's a good name.

Pat 2:57

Give me.

Bernie 2:58

Can you say something just so I well uh I I could add a little bit to that story the fall before I did all the going out from getting getting newspaper because Pat didn't feel well. And I fed the ri the same rabbit the fall before she she she discovered him in the spring.

Tom 3:19

Oh. There's a plot was here.

Bernie 3:22

So but I d I didn't have him eating out of my hand. I just just gave him some a piece of bread or or some marshal of food. And anyway, he he he was always friendly at after that point. Uh huh. So I th I think I started off the rabbit in the right direction. And and Pat got to go the second step.

Pat 3:48

I get the credit.

Bernie 3:50

You get well, I I want a little credit. Okay.

Tom 3:54

We'll share, we'll share the credit. We'll share. See, and I helped you guys tell the story to the world, so you know, I want to share the credit of this rabbit as well. What year were you guys born?

Pat 4:05

That's getting very personal, Tom. But I was born in 1941.

Bernie 4:10

1941? And I was born in 1938. 1938. Wow. Okay.

Pat 4:16

And I'm in a different decade now.

Bernie 4:19

You did you just turn 80? Right? That's correct. Happy birthday. And I'll be 83 uh this month.

Tom 4:26

Okay. What day is it again?

Bernie 4:29

August the 25th.

Tom 4:30

25th. Okay. That's actually that's actually what I thought. So I do know your birthday.

Bernie 4:34

And I'm wearing my a shirt that your dad gave me. Oh, okay. Actually, it was uh Father's Day, yeah.

Tom 4:45

Okay. Awesome. Well, he's got to give you another shirt then for your birthday.

Bernie 4:49

Maybe. Well, actually, we already got a rain raincoat. Oh, okay, okay. Nice.

Tom 4:54

So Well, I guess this is your birthday celebration, because I don't know if I'm gonna see you uh later in August.

Pat 5:00

Well my business running out.

Tom 5:03

Yeah. Okay, so what was it like then growing up in the forties and then you guys were like teenagers in the fifties, right? What are some like fond memories of that time period?

Bernie 5:15

I grew up on a farm and um when when I was probably s eight years old, we let the we had a tenant house on the farm and we let a a large family have the tenant house free of rent because they were having problems. And uh so I used to play with their kids. There were there were twelve of them. And uh I used to you know, do do things with them. But otherwise I didn't have anybody to play with at all because uh it was a mile to the cli closest neighbor.

Tom 5:53

Wow. Well were families just like a lot bigger in general back then? I feel like there's not a lot of twelve person families.

Bernie 5:59

Well, they're not. No, you're right. But uh that was an unusual circumstance.

Tom 6:08

Would people like have kids to help with the farms, right? Did that help your farm in your business?

Bernie 6:14

No? That that no. No. That we didn't get any we didn't get any benefit uh financial of any sort.

Tom 6:25

I mean they got to live free and uh Oh sorry, I'm just saying like in general, wouldn't people have more kids to help run the farm?

Bernie 6:34

Well we we you know we had you know uh tractor and combine and and those kind of pieces of equipment. Okay. So, you know, we really didn't and and we raised more raised more cattle than anything else. While our farm was 500 acres, uh we only cultivated probably eighty acres or something of that nature, and a lot of that went into things like feed for the cattle and and that sort of stuff. So it didn't require was not labor intensive. Okay. You know, we didn't have any any hired help or anything like that. Or or any and we didn't take advantage of of having a big family in a tenant house. Okay.

Tom 7:19

So cool. Mm-hmm. What was um what was your childhood like?

Pat 7:24

Well, I was the second child. I had a brother that was seven years older than me, and my family came out of an area where there was the military bought a hundred and six seventy-six thousand acres, and that is now Fort AP Hill. So all the uh occupants and people that lived in that area had to move out of the reservation and find other places to live.

Tom 7:52

Okay.

Pat 7:53

And uh my f I guessed my father actually the little the little house that I was born in is still standing today. Wow. And is just up the road a little bit, and I um mom and daddy bought a house and we moved into it. And as of now we both Bernie and I own that house now, which was my childhood house. And my father got a job with the rural electric co-op. And uh I guess after he found out he had a girl, you better get a good job, and he did. He worked there for 36 years. And um then about seven, when I was seven years old, along came my sister. So then I came that poor pitiful little old middle child. Oh, you know how that is.

Tom 8:55

I I do feel for the middle children.

Pat 8:59

Yeah.

Tom 8:59

They have a rough it's rough.

Pat 9:03

But anyway, but we my mother and daddy they had a garden and they had chickens, and my mother sold eggs, and they had pigs, and mom we had a cow, and so they we were very self-efficient that way, and my mother did the canning and the freezing, and she was a wonderful seamstress. And back then, your feedbags would come for the feed for the chickens and all, and there were they were printed and floraled and all of that. It was very exciting when you found two that matched. And I grew up on feedback dresses. My mother made all my clothes for me and my sister. So we didn't have any store-board clothes.

Tom 9:51

Wow. Okay, so when you found two the feedbags are something that you you have the food for the animals, right?

Pat 9:58

Right.

Tom 9:58

And then if you found two that matched, you can make that into an outfit. That's right. Wow, yeah, that's crazy.

Pat 10:04

And my mother never had an electric uh sewing machine, she always had one that had a pedal to it. And she learned she was a beautiful seamstress, and we were always proud of our clothes. Because everybody else was really dressed like that, you know? That's because that that came out of the time of the depression. And they were very conservative, and actually they taught us how to save money.

Tom 10:36

So, yeah, the depression was in the 30s, right? But you guys still kind of felt that way of everyone was just cautious and um making the most out of the materials they had and and things like that.

Bernie 10:48

Absolutely. Uh by the way, I I moved from the from the farm. They sold the farm when I was 12 years old, and we moved to Ladysmith. And I think my father had bought 90 acres and and built a house at at Ladysmith. I I should have added that to my first shot. And uh you know, after that I I was within walking distance of the school. Okay. So and your mother was a teacher. And my mother was a was a school teacher.

Pat 11:24

At that school.

Bernie 11:27

At that school, yes.

Pat 11:28

Yeah.

Tom 11:29

And did you guys have running water? No, right?

Bernie 11:33

Um alwa always, okay, we had running water before I was born, many years before. Uh in fact, during the I think during the twenties, they had a w didn't ha did not have power yet, but they had a w like a windmill that that pumped the water. That pumped the water into a tank that was about 20 feet off the ground, and then we had running water in the house that way.

Tom 12:04

Okay. But wait, didn't didn't you not have a like a you had to use an outhouse, right?

Pat 12:09

I had yes, my parents had an outhouse.

Tom 12:13

Okay.

Pat 12:13

And you know, it's always a joke about uh had to use the catalog. You know, some people even said a corn cough, but that we never had to go that far. And my mother had a wood stove. Wow, okay. And uh I was I think I was in the fourth grade when we got a bathroom inside.

Tom 12:36

Okay. Crazy. Yeah, the wood stove, um, that's that's a lot different too. I bet it's a whole different way to cook on that.

Pat 12:43

Yeah, and do your canning and everything.

Tom 12:47

Okay.

Bernie 12:48

That wood stove heats up the house uh un unbearably in the summertime, I would think.

Tom 12:55

It's kind of weird. Now that's kind of a luxury for like certain pizza places will have like wood stove pizza. It's like a special thing now. But back then it was just the way you cooked, you know. Um, so I've you guys met pretty young, I feel like are we um like how did you guys meet? Or is there any chunk of the story from your childhood?

Pat 13:15

Well, actually I saw you. Well, first I should say our county had two schools in it that time year. And he went to a school called C. T. Smith, and I went to a school called Caroline High. And elementary too. But anyway, I thought he was the cutest thing I'd ever seen. But anyway, I I love playing basketball, and we did compete with his school in basketball too. But during one of the the guys' games, the coach happened to be a relative of mine, and I said, I would just love to meet that guy. And he blew the whistle, stopped everything, and brought him over and introduced him to me.

Bernie 14:03

Wow. He he called time out.

Pat 14:05

Yeah, time out.

Bernie 14:07

Were you embarrassed? Uh uh maybe slightly, but uh you know, it wasn't I wouldn't call it embarrassment so much as it was kind of a a a compliment to to get attention.

Tom 14:20

She was too good looking for it to be embarrassing.

Bernie 14:22

Sure, absolutely.

Pat 14:24

So anyway, that's how we met. Then we started date, and Bernie can take it from there after what he did after what he did after graduation.

Bernie 14:34

I initially went in service for six months as soon as I could get signed up because I I did not want to get drafted once I started a career path. So I did my six month worth of infantry training, etc. And after that, uh I was in reserves for theoretically eight years. Then I went to Chicago to Devry Tech for for two years uh to learn something that would be worthwhile. And I hired on with then you spur UNIVAC after that. But that was sort of the progression that way. And as soon as I got out of school and I I I got my job with with UNIVAC, uh, we we got married at that point.

Pat 15:23

And I did graduate from high school, and then after I graduated from high school, I went to a business school in Richmond. And then Bertie came back from Chicago and then we served a couple weeks in the reserves. He gave me 10 days. Let's get married.

Bernie 15:40

Wow. So it was either that or I was gonna be gone again for a long time. And I promised her that I would not leave her if I was gonna be gone a long time again. And back in those days, it was if you took her off someplace, you had to marry her. I mean, that was the way it was. You just you just couldn't do like this modern generation is doing. So we would have probably had a different relationship, perhaps, if you know, if it had been in a different generation.

Pat 16:12

But it has worked. We're coming up in November, our 62nd year.

Tom 16:18

Wow. 62. 62. That's um longer than most people have been alive, you know.

Pat 16:25

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, we look at the thank you for that comment.

Tom 16:31

Well, I guess it's impressive. I don't know.

Pat 16:33

Yeah, yeah. But anyway, we got married November the 21st, 1959, and we started off by going to New York State, where Bernie was with Spurry Ren.

Bernie 16:49

Spurry Univack.

Pat 16:51

And uh we were only supposed to be there 16 weeks, didn't have any money, didn't know where we were gonna stay, drove into town, you know. There was a for rent sign up there, and we stopped. It was a furnished apartment, and we paid $17 a week rent.

Tom 17:10

Wow, that sounds nice.

Pat 17:14

And so then uh they the lady said, let me get it straightened up and cleaned up. Why don't you come back in a little while? And we came back in a little while. So they had a kitchen, a living room, bedroom, bathroom, and we stayed there. And then we we were uh walking one day and we saw a sign. Let's say it was furniture, a kitchen set, a bedroom set, a living room set for $379. And we decided, oh maybe we should buy that and then we'll have it when we leave here. Well, guess what? The 16 weeks turned out to be 51 weeks. So we got an unfurnished apartment and stayed in that and put our furniture in it. Oh, nice. So that worked out really well. And I got a part-time job. I worked at a school uh in the superintendent's office, and you know, that kept me company a little bit.

Bernie 18:24

And I got selected for a special program because I I was top in my class, not in the whole class, but uh all those that were going to Washington, D.C. area. And so they put me in the in a factory so that I I could work on the equipment uh and get get experience before I got to the field. Before I got to the customer's office and not know not knowing what I was doing.

Tom 18:54

What kind of equipment?

Bernie 18:55

Well, compute mainframe computer equipment. It was for the day, it was the the first machine, it wasn't uh tube oriented. It was magnetic amplifiers. Oh which was a whole different story.

Tom 19:10

Nobody ever built another one, but Okay, so this was like a type of computer that they stopped working on it after a while, you're saying?

Bernie 19:18

I mean, it's long past, many years ago. Okay. Nobody's used one of those machines since uh probably 1970.

Pat 19:27

And it would fill up a room. It was a longer equipment.

Bernie 19:30

That was not one of the bigger ones, but yeah, it would certainly fill up a room.

Tom 19:34

Uh huh. So what was the use case of the computer then?

Bernie 19:38

What was what?

Tom 19:39

What was the use what was the use case of these computers? Who was using these?

Bernie 19:42

Okay, DC Transit, uh small business administration, you know, precisely DC Transit used it for one of the big things was payroll. Uh I mean that was one day a week, but but you know, it took probably four or five hours to run payroll. But I mean they used it all week. I uh I'm not specific on I can't give you specifics on what they used that machine for. Okay. You know, during during the week, but they used it all week. Okay. But like Fridays, so Thursdays or Fridays, they did payroll, and that was the important thing. The printer had to work and flawlessly and that sort of thing.

Tom 20:24

Okay. I want to circle back to like some of this some of the computers you worked on, but I feel like we skipped over so many things like your experience in the army and stuff like that. So one one thing I was curious about before we get into like your experience in the army was you guys grew up kind of like during World War II, right? So do you guys have memories of that? And uh like what what do you guys remember about World War II?

Bernie 20:49

Not much. Not much. You know, I mean, I remember that uh our neighbor had a car that was up on on on jacks, the wheels were uh it was jacked off the ground. Okay. And if if that was so, they had didn't have to make payments while they were in service. They were they were allowed to jack the car up as long as it couldn't be driven. Ah, okay. And then they would when they got back, it was still a you know.

Tom 21:20

Okay. That's crazy. So that that's kind of like your flashball memory of officers.

Bernie 21:25

That was one of the weird things that that that World War II brought.

Pat 21:30

Uh then I had uncles on my daddy's side. That went to that were in service.

Bernie 21:36

Yeah.

Tom 21:37

Okay.

Bernie 21:38

Yeah, and we uh I had t m neighbors that were, you know, in service. But you know, my father was in World War One, so he he was you know, pretty old for to to be a father, actually.

Tom 21:51

What did he say about his experience in World War One?

Bernie 21:54

Uh he talks more about the trip over there, and uh that was the year. The Spanish flu and everybody got sick on the way there. Oh wow. Okay. So a lot of people 1918.

Tom 22:07

Oh yeah, yeah.

Bernie 22:08

Yeah, I mean they were all sick.

Tom 22:14

Wow. Okay, so then when you um joined the army uh or the military, what war were we fighting then, or was there a war going on? What was kind of like the conflict at the time?

Bernie 22:28

Korea. Korea just uh I guess we were just finishing down Korea. The next thing was the Bay of Pigs invasion, I think.

Tom 22:37

Okay.

Bernie 22:37

You know, that that brought a lot of but I wasn't involved in any war. Okay. I I was fortunate enough to to get between wars and I didn't get recalled. Okay.

Pat 22:49

So And I'm gonna step in for a minute. He didn't stay uh he didn't serve over the eight years in reserves because after he got the job with Svery Univac, it was considered a critical position, and so he didn't have to serve.

Tom 23:06

Uh okay, cool. Okay. So you were never deployed then in the No, I was never never deployed.

Bernie 23:12

No.

Tom 23:12

Okay. So then the education you said you got for two years, what uh was that and how did it prepare you for all kinds of electronic gadgets.

Bernie 23:23

I mean everything that was known about electronics was taught pretty much. Okay from from televisions to microwaves.

Tom 23:31

So were you always like really interested in working with electronics and hardware, or did that just seem like the right career move?

Bernie 23:38

It seemed like the right thing to do at the time.

Tom 23:40

Okay. What was like challenging about working with hardware, or what what was your favorite part about just kind of that kind of work?

Bernie 23:49

Later on during my career, I I slid into software. Okay. And I would say that was probably more challenging. I wrote a lot of programs that were used for diagnostics, and it made my job much easier to repair the hardware, understanding the software.

Tom 24:07

So what like software languages were you using that?

Bernie 24:10

I use the assembly language.

Tom 24:12

Assembly language? Okay. And what what does that kind of look like?

Bernie 24:16

Instructions. Just one str one instruction at a time.

Tom 24:20

Okay. Is it like logical challenge? What was the most challenging part about writing software at that time?

Bernie 24:25

Is just does it take a long time to process or the challenge to me was to does it show the problem with the hardware? I would write code and what I thought should f find any kind of problem. And then when I found a uh a problem, I would go check it with my my software to see if it found it. Well, you generally it did, but if it didn't, I I would m make changes to the software until it found that pro you know, I found each problem. I would put the put the trouble back in the machines. Okay. And go in early in the morning and and test it out to make sure that it found the problem.

Tom 25:07

What's an example of the type of problem? Like would it be the way the circuitry is set up with the hardware, or how did these problems like come about?

Bernie 25:17

That's a tough question. I mean, you know, any any number of things. We had a multi-sub MSA that we called it, multi-subsystem adapter, and we ran tape drives and and and disk drives through those. They shifted data around because we that was all based on eight bits. Okay. And we were running a 36-bit machine, so it wasn't a a multiple of eight bit of eight bits. So 36 bits g gave you another half-byte off the end. So it slid into the next word. Nobody else is going to be interested in what I'm you're getting me into questions that nobody's gonna understand.

Tom 26:02

Well, I'm trying to understand.

Bernie 26:04

And they're not gonna care.

Tom 26:06

Well, first of all, I do interview like uh other software developers on this podcast. Like I've interviewed like two or three, including like one of my professors who is a software developer. So I kind of get into the weeds sometimes on some technical stuff, and I don't know if people understand it than they do. But some interesting observation was like my other grandparents were telling me like my granddad around the same time was working at NASA and he didn't have any computers and like he was writing things down and stuff. So it's just it is kind of weird and interesting to me that you were working on software and with computers this whole time because I guess it wasn't popular, right? I mean, not everyone you you were you must have been in a very unique situation working on computer.

Bernie 26:50

It was somewhat unique, yeah.

Tom 26:51

Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, it's just really interesting that you you know were one of the few people that were kind of working on software in the 70s because not many people were, and you know, I work in software, so I'm interested in it. But yeah, I mean we we can we can ask Mamma all some questions.

Pat 27:11

And NASA was the one who all slapped.

Bernie 27:14

Yeah, yeah.

Tom 27:15

Okay. Well, I think maybe he was just working like as a mathematician too. Uh-huh. So maybe he just didn't have any computers.

Bernie 27:24

Yeah, in the 70s we had mainframe computers at in NASA.

Tom 27:29

Okay. Interesting. So around this time, did you guys have a kid? Is this when when did when was on Cindy born?

Pat 27:38

Well, like I said, we stayed in we went up in December of 59 to New York State, and we left in December of 1960. And I got a job at Army Mutual at Fort Myer. And next thing I knew, I was pregnant, and Cindy was born in December of 1961. And we selected I'd be a stay-at-home mom. And then in 1962, we bought our first home, and the school was right across the street, and that worked out really nicely. And the one thing about having children and our family started in a the new development, everybody knew each other, everybody basically had started a family, and we all had so much in common with the children, you know. So we really that was really, really special. And then in 1967, we had a son, and that was a blessing to carry the family name of Driver. Bernie had an uncle that hung up on us when we found out Cindy was a girl because he wanted to carry the family name. So that was in 1967, and then when Ken went to oh, I guess it was kindergarten had started that yeah. He didn't have kindergarten while Cindy was little. And then I went to work part-time in the school system and I became uh kept the books at the school across the street. It was part-time, but I'd walk over, work a few hours, come back, but I did the bookkeeping for the school. And then I went to a junior high school and I was an attendance person, and I learned a lot of things, why kids were late and what marijuana smelled like and all that stuff, because they'd come in late and they they I learned a lot that year. And then during our time of our marriage, we went not only did we stay in New York, that one year we went back a couple, and it was in the Adirondack area, and it was really beautiful. And then we went to Minnesota twice and stayed almost a year with his work. And what we do is have a family or someone we knew that were thinking about buying a house, and we let them stay in our house, and we take everything we didn't want them used and put in one room, and they would pay the utilities, and that way the house was being taken care of. And when the electric bills and stuff came, they would pay those bills, you know, that was their cost. And so that was that. And Bernie always um likes cars, he could name everything about a car, and he he really knew we didn't have a garage. We stayed in that first house we bought for 25 years. So what we did was we moved, we bought a garage with a house attached. Okay, and then we were right on, we were ready to go then. That was really nice. And we lived in Oakden, Virginia, then for eight years. And then oh, and during that time for 10 years, I stayed there till I got my tenure, I worked at the same company Bernie was working for, and then I stayed home because there was this little baby born, and his name was Thomas, and I took care of him. But I called Bernie and I said, Peggy has gone to the hospital and he said, Okay, and while Bernie was driving home, I had already had a sign, and when he drove in the drive, it had his name, time his name on it, how much he weighed, and what time he was born, and we went over to the hospital that night to see him. And that was you.

Tom 32:12

That was me, and now here I am.

Pat 32:14

Here you are. Adults. Adult.

Tom 32:18

Is it weird to see me growing up?

Pat 32:20

No.

Tom 32:21

No?

Pat 32:22

Just as long as you're happy and healthy and that turn out the way you expected? Yeah.

Tom 32:27

You expected this long hair?

Pat 32:30

No, I didn't expect long hair, but I have so many cute pictures of it when I kept you with your mother would bring you in, and then maybe we'd play together a little bit, then I'd put you down for a nap and you'd sleep. Then you'd wake up, and then I'd feed you, then I would take you for a walk in the stroller, then you'd sleep, then your mother would come home when you go by a good one to take care of.

Tom 32:56

Hmm. So we skipped through a lot of time. I'm gonna circle back to some of those time periods. But since you're on the topic of meat, I I happen to like that topic. Um, why don't you tell is there like a like maybe the beach story or a certain story like while I was an infant that oh yeah, there's some really good ones we can tell.

Pat 33:20

When uh Tom asks about the beach stories, um it had been in the driver family since 1956, and then Ms. Driver, Mr. Driver passed away in 69, Ms. Driver passed away in '89. And at that point, uh Bernie and her at the property, and we would go down and we fixed it up and did some renovating, etc., etc. And Peggy and Ken took a cruise, and we had Tom there with us, and he was nine months old, and he walked from the screen porch all the way down to the back.

Bernie 34:04

Incidentally, that was my first year of retirement. So that was kind of fun for you guys then. It was interesting, certainly. It was really interesting. Fun and interesting.

Pat 34:14

Yeah. And um he uh I I think that his parents were a little disappointed that they missed seeing him walking for the first time. But he would stand up and take a few steps, get up, throw his shoulders back, and take a few more steps. But we took a video of him all the way down to the I just kept falling over, right?

Tom 34:41

Yeah, yeah.

Pat 34:42

Yeah, but it it was pretty neat. And I know we're gonna go back, but during all of this time, our daughter had a son. She had two sons. And as of now, the oldest one's twenty-eight, and the next uh Brody's twenty-six, and Tommy is I'm almost twenty seven. And Tommy will be twenty-seven next month, and then Jamie, and there's uh and I'll never forget what uh Jonathan's birthday is because he was born in the year 2000.

Tom 35:18

Five grandsons.

Pat 35:20

Five grandsons. We had a little granddaughter in 1991, but she came too early and she only lived three days, and her name was Madeline Leanne Loma.

Tom 35:34

And Cindy got married in 1985, and she would have been Morgan's older sister. So let's take a step back, and my dad told me to ask you guys about like our family tree. He says that there's some interesting stories and characters. So you said at s at one point um we had a son to carry the driver name, right? Like, what does that mean to you guys? Uh, what is our what is our family like lineage um and who are some interesting characters or stories? Because I know you've you've looked at our family tree.

Pat 36:16

I've looked at your family tree. Well, let's go back a little bit on your daddy's side. I your daddy is Richard Green. Um my mother and I went to a nursing home one day to visit someone, and a lady came out of a room that I I knew, and I looked up and it said Bradley Green. And I said to um, Oh my daughter-in-law was a green, and Richard said, Well, the only one I knew, or maybe it was Carolyn, said, The only one we knew was Richard and Jane Sydney.

Tom 37:04

Jane Sidney?

Pat 37:05

That's your daddy's sister.

Tom 37:07

Okay.

Pat 37:08

And I said, Well, that's my uh daughter-in-law's father. So from there we found out that just a little way, probably two miles from us, is where Bradley and Alma Green live. And they were relatives. And then on top of that, we found out that Richard Green's grandfather is buried at the cemetery that Bernie and I go to church now.

Tom 37:40

Wow.

Pat 37:41

And the rest of the Green Rose, more of the Green relatives. So that was really interesting too, to find that out. And Richard and Carolyn came to visit us and we got it stuffed out and looked at it and all how it was connected with the family. And I'll never forget, Peggy, he said, you all just better stop. Next thing you'll find out Kenny and I'm akin to each other.

Tom 38:10

But they're not, right?

Pat 38:11

But they're not. But they're not.

Bernie 38:14

You didn't find that link anyway.

Pat 38:16

No, we didn't find that.

Bernie 38:17

Yeah, well let's stop looking in the ass.

Pat 38:20

But as far as the drivers go, they originally came from uh Rockingham County. There was a place in Mount Clinton down near the college at JMU and several of the drivers are buried there. Bernie's uncle and aunts. And one was an attorney. Well, that was your cousin that was an attorney. But Uncle Tommy. We had a Tommy and we had Bernie's great uncles. Well, they were your real uncles.

Bernie 39:03

Tom Driver was my real uncle, and he had they had no children.

Pat 39:07

Yeah, and Uncle Bob.

Bernie 39:08

Uncle Uncle Bob is the one that had had one child, and he had one daughter, and I think there I think she was never married and and was no sentence on that no that leg.

Pat 39:22

And then it was uh the one in Williamsburg.

Bernie 39:28

Jim Driver.

Pat 39:30

Jim Driver. And then it was Madge and Georgie.

Bernie 39:34

They were the German and your daddy. Jim Driver was a a a wonderful athlete. He played all kinds of sports, but he also was in World War I and World War II. He w he was a a a pretty I think he was a colonel in both. Wow.

Pat 39:51

So And I had the paperwork for you.

Bernie 39:55

W World War II, I think he probably worked to get people to sign up.

Pat 39:59

Recruiting.

Bernie 40:00

Recruiting officer, probably. Okay. But I'm I'm not really sure what he did.

Tom 40:06

What about the guy that um is over here in your living room?

Pat 40:09

All right, that is Bernie's great-grandfather.

Tom 40:14

Okay.

Bernie 40:15

It's my grandfather. Grandfather. My grandfather.

Pat 40:18

And it's his great grandfather.

Tom 40:20

It's my great grandfather.

Pat 40:21

And that was back in the 1800s that that picture was done. Okay.

Bernie 40:26

Yeah, he was born in the 1850s. So it was a long generations. I mean, my father was 60 well almost well, he was probably in his almost fifty years old by the time I was born.

Tom 40:41

So this is super random, but wait, what European country are we from? Are we do we go back? Do have you traced it to We went back to England. England?

Bernie 40:55

Yeah, the the name comes from England, but uh The Curries. Um The Curies got a land grant of about as much as West Virginia is size-wise, I think. Wow. Initially. You know, and I'm sure they sold it off in some way.

Pat 41:13

That's where Stanton is.

Bernie 41:15

Yeah.

Tom 41:15

But I feel like we've been in America for like a long time. Oh yeah.

Pat 41:19

Like I think it was like the 1700s that car carries got that land.

Tom 41:25

Wow. That's what I always thought. People always ask me like where I'm from, and I'm I'm pretty sure I'm just pretty American at this point. Like 1700s, if we came over from England, like that's you know, it's not like we are attached too closely to any European country at this point. You know?

Bernie 41:42

That's my mother was a Smith, and the Smiths have been around a long time. I don't know whether I don't think she was a direct descendant of Captain John, but but uh the the the you know the relatives have been here a long, long time.

Tom 42:01

And mostly in Virginia too, right?

Bernie 42:02

Oh yeah, yeah.

Tom 42:04

Cool. Um, something else random. Weren't you in like a beauty contest at some point?

Pat 42:10

Well, you mean was I in one? I won one.

Tom 42:13

You won it.

Pat 42:14

Yeah, I did. Nice 1958. Miss Verdixburg Fair.

Tom 42:21

Wow. Well, congratulations.

Pat 42:23

Thank you.

Tom 42:24

Thank you. So what uh did you have to like train for that or what did you do to prepare for this?

Pat 42:31

Well, let's say I had to wear a gown and I had to wear a bathing suit.

Tom 42:35

Okay, and I got picked. Nice.

Pat 42:39

So, and then uh that qualified me to go to the Miss Virginia University one in Richmond, and I was miscongeniality.

Tom 42:52

Nice. Wait, I should know what that means. What is miscongeniality?

Pat 42:55

Oh, it's friendly.

Tom 42:56

You were friendly. Okay. I can see that. I could definitely see that. I feel like you're one of the friendliest people I know, right? You you've made friends all along this timeline and and kept up with most of them, right?

Pat 43:11

Yeah, I really have.

Tom 43:12

What is your trick?

Pat 43:15

Just smile. Listen, I will say that Bernie and I, after we came back to our home county, we came back at a good time because right afterwards my mother passed away and daddy was 90 years old, so therefore we were able to help my family. And we had somebody come help him for a while, and we took some trips, and now we can say we've been to f there are forty eight continental states.

Tom 43:49

Wow.

Pat 43:50

Yeah.

Tom 43:50

That's cool.

Pat 43:52

But the way things are now, I don't know how I don't think we need to go to Oregon or

Bernie 44:01

Not again.

Pat 44:02

Not again.

Bernie 44:02

It was nice when we were there. Yeah. But oh it was beautiful.

Pat 44:06

Yeah.

Tom 44:07

Yeah, I've probably only s been to like twelve or fifteen states or something. I don't know. Not a number.

Pat 44:15

But I guess maybe Bernie and I should talk about it. We decided in nineteen seventy-two. So we got married in sixteen fifty-nine. We decided to invest in rental property.

Tom 44:30

Yeah.

Pat 44:31

And uh we did. And now we have five places that we maintain per rental. And capital gains doesn't sound too good right now in the administration.

Bernie 44:50

Um yeah, I'm a little concerned about the taxes because when the capital gains were forgiven, but the Biden administration wants to make my and uh m my uh the people who inherit inherit our property, they would want them to to pay capital gains. Okay. Uh and inheritance on that.

Tom 45:15

And that's a lot.

Bernie 45:17

Oh yeah, it's all capital gains because it's all been depreciated. The way you do rental property is you you you pick a uh depreciate it over a period of time. Mm-hmm. And so it gets depreciated down to zero and and at that point then the only thing that not depreciated is the land that it's sitting on. Okay, so the ho the house has been depreciated to nothing. And so if you would inherit the house now, you you would to this year you you would take uh you would you take it at the value you inherited at. And you wouldn't have to pay anything but inheritance taxes, probably not any, because inheritance taxes so many million dollars a couple of million dollars before you had to pay that. So it you probably just would have it for free, essentially. Got it. But now now with the Biden administration wants it to pay like 40 percent capital gains tax or some ungoshly amount.

Tom 46:23

Oh, so it then it's it's barely worth it at that point.

Bernie 46:27

Yeah, it uh it it really takes away the value of our efforts. Wow. So we don't know how what it's gonna turn out to be. But see when Mr.

Pat 46:38

Drago and his driver sold the big farm, back then the taxes were 90%. But you if you reinvested it into a farm like they had, that's when they bought the real place.

Bernie 46:55

It was a little farm. It was essentially a farm. It was 35 acres they bought. And they got you know, got to move the capital gains after a certain amount, you had to pay like at say 90%. I don't know what number that is, maybe at 40,000 capital gains. No, it wouldn't be it was more like 10,000 after 10,000 capital gains, I think. You had to cost 90% in taxes.

Tom 47:27

Wow. So the Yeah, it's a lot. Well, I mean, I still think it was really cool that you guys were able to like retire early and stuff. So what was what was some of the challenges you faced um kind of setting up all these rental properties and getting them going? I mean, I assume you had to kind of get this all going like while you were still working, you know, and and kind of have a system set up before you could retire early. So yeah, what kind of challenges did you guys face and and and what was that whole process like?

Bernie 47:59

We were very conservative. We didn't we we bought property uh that that took w uh we assumed people's loans in s several cases, and it means that we had to put like twenty thousand dollars to to get the property that was worth fifty thousand or sixty thousand at the time. So we had a big chunk of the house cash ahead of time before we bought anything. And um so and then we each property we paid off as soon as well actually the highest percentage was the highest rent uh percentage of interest we paid off first. And so we paid off pro each property as soon as we could. And you know, everything took care of itself after that.

Tom 48:53

Okay, but what about literally the day-to-day stuff? Like what kind of skills did you need to because you fixed up most of the houses yourself, right?

Bernie 49:01

That's right.

Tom 49:02

So how many hours do you have to spend? Like, let's say take one house on average, like how many hours a year are you spending on that house fixing it up, and what kind of skills did you need in order to kind of keep it running?

Bernie 49:15

We spend probably a month between tenants typically. Okay. But beyond that, we don't spend very much time at all. I mean it it it may run that you get a bunch of calls from one house, but uh and that happens in spurts, you so it's unpredictable. But most of the time it's you know, it's like the Queensbury house, we haven't had a call there for a couple of years, two or three years probably, at least now. So uh you you can often go for five or ten years without anything.

Pat 49:50

Another time you may get you know more more frequent calls, but and that a tenant that moved in last year this time, they had been there 37 years.

Tom 50:02

Wow. That's a long time.

Pat 50:04

So they didn't damage the house, but the carpets needed replacing and all that. So we completely renovated the house and new kitchen and carpet in.

Tom 50:16

If they need new carpets, you guys will do that yourself. Oh, yeah. You literally put the carpet down.

Pat 50:20

No, we didn't physically put it down.

Tom 50:22

Oh, we didn't, no, we had it done. Another company.

Bernie 50:24

So what type of We did the painting and that kind of stuff.

Tom 50:26

So what kind of things are like we do this and what kind of things are like we outsource this? Carpet, you guys outsource painting, you guys uh would be paint, painting the houses.

Bernie 50:35

No, we paint.

Tom 50:36

What other things fall on those categories of like things that you physically do and things that you do wi I do the wiring.

Bernie 50:42

Uh you know, if you need extra circuits or or like the extra bathroom had had essentially requires another circuit. Okay. In that case. Um I I do I've replaced electrical sub boxes in between you know uh uh electrical main entrance box. I I replaced I've replaced a couple of them here and there.

Tom 51:07

Are you able to do the electrical work because of your career, or is this something that I could learn if I ever wanted to manage rental property?

Bernie 51:14

Well, I mean, I studied electronics, yeah. Uh like I mentioned earlier. So I I know all about electricity, and then it's just a easy switch from Ohm's law to to figuring out how to, you know, how the wiring should be done and what size wire to use and what's what a wire size should be used on a certain circuit, etc. So it's uh it's it's piece of that that's all a piece of cake. It's more mechanical. You know, crawling through the attic and running a wire, that sort of thing is uh disaffer. It's physically. Yeah. And then he A challenge, however. I consider everything a challenge.

Pat 51:56

And he does plumbing.

Bernie 51:57

You do the plumbing too? I do. Most plumbing. Okay.

Pat 52:01

See, we put in a half new half bath at the uh Centerville house. And uh but we had to hire like a person to put the concrete down on the floor.

Bernie 52:14

And then we we we changed the doors, but then uh we we had a rough end. We had we contracted w uh with a plumber to to rough in the bathroom. So so the drains would be right and pass code, etc. And then then we did we did the all the cabinets and the commodes and the and the and the extra electrical circuits, etc., that kind of thing. Okay.

Pat 52:43

And then we and the drywall and And we took out all the kitchen cabinets, top and bottom, and then we bought the cabinets and we installed them ourselves. And then we had them put the countertop up and the backslice.

Tom 53:03

Okay. Wow.

Pat 53:05

Yeah. But you you it depends on what quality and how much you want to do, because now, like for the backslice, you can get some peel wallpaper, you know what I'm saying? But we got the uh ceramic in there. It really turned out nice.

Tom 53:22

How about bad tenants? Don't you guys have some sort of stories?

Pat 53:26

Oh, yeah. Which one do you want to hear?

Tom 53:28

I don't know the best one.

Pat 53:31

Well, let's see. One time it's my fault because this lady came and she had the cutest triplet you ever wanted to see. And she was going through a divorce and she said that she'll be getting her money and she'll pay us. And of course, dumb just felt so sorry for her, so we let her she moved in. Well, she stretched it as long, she stuck, well, I want to get the money. I wanna get the money, well, she didn't get the money, she didn't pay. So anyway, uh we did have to have her convicted.

Bernie 54:10

And we had not convicted.

Pat 54:14

Convicted. Well, she almost got convicted, but anyway. And anyway, we did get a lawyer and we did uh she didn't show up the first day. She said she went to the bathroom, but didn't see it on any security cameras. And then the next time we went she didn't show up either. She didn't show up either that day. And then the police got involved and they told us not to go to the door but meet them there. And they went to the door and knocked on it and told us she had what twenty-four hours to get out, and the furniture had to be gotten out that day, and they stood over him while he changed all the locks on the door.

Bernie 54:59

Wow.

Pat 55:00

I mean it's sad when that comes to that.

Bernie 55:03

There were three keyed uh exterior doors. The police required today put put new new locks on all of them.

Pat 55:13

And then we had another one here locally, and uh we got a call from the bank that said that w the the bank is like kind of in front of where the house is over here. And uh they said, We just want to tell you that uh your tenants are drawing electricity by extension cord hooked up to the bank. Wow. And then uh they had their water cut off, but then they turned it back on and then they came and cut their water off and then they fixed it so they couldn't turn it back on. So anyway, we got on them and what happened to them was that uh they just weren't paying, they weren't paying. And so I got a lawyer for that too. And then we uh I w what happened was I kinda know the zoning person in Bowling Green, but one of the sheriffs said, Come here, I'll help you. And uh the zoning person condemned the house because it had no electricity and it had no water. And therefore that forced him out. Wow. You see.

Bernie 56:35

That worked better than going regular evicting. Eviction.

Tom 56:41

Yeah. Okay, so just cutting off the water and power from the source.

Bernie 56:46

They weren't paying. Yeah, or they so the water company cut them off, and the power company cut them off because they weren't paying those bills either.

Pat 56:54

And then they weren't paying those.

Tom 56:56

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that's kind of a rough situation because you don't want to like be quote mean to anyone or anything, but this is also at that point you do.

Pat 57:05

Okay.

Tom 57:07

Okay, yeah, I guess so.

Bernie 57:10

Yeah, when you're looking at five months, that's uh Yeah, it's a long time.

Tom 57:14

It's a very long time.

Bernie 57:16

It's really hard to get rid of any anyone that that doesn't take five months anymore. You know, the laws are are go all toward the tenant. So you better have nice tenants. That's all I can say. Nice tenants work out well. But the those who want to skirt the law and s and see what they can get away with, they can get away with a lot.

Tom 57:38

Wow. And so wouldn't in that situation, would you get the five months back or no? Of course not.

Bernie 57:46

No, that's gone.

Pat 57:46

That's so therefore you don't have to claim the income.

Tom 57:50

Okay.

Pat 57:50

You see.

Tom 57:51

Yeah.

Bernie 57:51

With multiple properties, you know, at least it turns into less money you had to pay for taxes. Yeah. I guess that's the only good side that could come out of that.

Tom 58:01

That's true. Well, yeah, I mean, if if that was like your only house and you guys or you said two, this one and that one, and that was a big source of your income, that would be a huge problem.

Bernie 58:11

If you had to live off somebody else's income, you'd be in trouble. Yeah. Period. Never get into a situation. Um, this is a piece of advice for you. Never get into a situation where you you can't make it if they don't pay. Got it.

Pat 58:28

See, that's what's so bad. Our best investment we have is the cell tower.

Tom 58:34

The cell tower?

Pat 58:35

Yeah, because we don't do the thing. They just pay us.

Tom 58:38

Oh, I didn't know you guys owned a cell tower.

Pat 58:40

Yeah.

Tom 58:40

We don't own the tower.

Pat 58:41

They rent we don't own the town. They lease the rent.

Tom 58:44

They lease the land.

Pat 58:45

But they paid the taxes on that piece of land.

Tom 58:48

Wow. Oh, that's nice.

Pat 58:51

And a few years ago, they um wanted to do something, and uh we said, well, he can just take it down. And boy, they jumped and raised the rent, gave us more rent, gave us a bonus.

Tom 59:08

So was that just luck, or did you guys think that out? Did they know?

Pat 59:11

No, my daddy had it.

Tom 59:12

Oh, okay.

Pat 59:13

See, my daddy had it.

Bernie 59:14

Okay.

Pat 59:15

Yeah. But they just took him.

Bernie 59:18

They weren't paying very much.

Pat 59:20

Not paying enough, you know, and didn't even put it where they said they were going to put it.

Bernie 59:24

Okay.

Pat 59:25

So that that is a good investment. And then we also get money from um farmland. We lease the farm, and somebody pays us so much an acre for the product.

Bernie 59:37

Yeah, we get as much for the tower as we do for the house. In the house, we had a lot of maintenance on the house. Yeah. It's an old house and it requires a lot of.

Pat 59:48

I think we get to plan that as expenses.

Bernie 59:50

Well, yeah, yeah, but uh, I'd rather not have the expense.

Pat 59:53

Yeah.

Tom 59:54

Yeah, I need to find out how how to get one of these tower deals. I need to sell tower in my yard someday.

Pat 1:00:01

No, that's nice.

Bernie 1:00:02

It is it it is because if you go seek one, you won't find they have to seek you.

Pat 1:00:09

Have you seen the it's so many all over the place?

Tom 1:00:12

Yeah. No, it seems kind of lucky, and it also seems like probably they have their spots already. Like, there's not yeah, you know, too many new towers getting thrown up. So what about I feel like we kind of skipped over like all of parenting for you guys?

Bernie 1:00:27

You guys oh were we yeah, we were parents.

Tom 1:00:29

We jumped y'all jumped pretty close, like or pretty fast to like grandparent mode. So um, what do you have any advice for young parents or any just like stories from being a parent that send out to you?

Bernie 1:00:45

I have a piece of advice, and if I don't tell you, Pat's going to, but you when you have a have a a young person, you want to let them do as much as you can, but when you say no, you have to mean no. If they ask you for something, say yes as much as you can. But when there's a time you have to say no, you have to say absolutely mean it. Whenever you say no, you must absolutely mean it. So that would be my advice.

Tom 1:01:14

So what happens if if um your kid senses that they might be able to push you over and no might not mean no? What's the what happens then? It's just a problematic.

Bernie 1:01:25

You you teach them with small things. Yeah. They've they learn that I can't ha give you an advice that you have to teach them with the small things first. And then when it gets to be big things, they'll know you mean no. Got it.

Pat 1:01:42

Well, for example, it was like when they're little and you would come up to your director and would come to them and say, Can can I have my friend over tonight? Well, there's really no reason they couldn't have their friend. So you say yeah. And then can we go to the movies next weekend? Yeah, you know. But then if they say, Oh, we want to go downtown to Washington, to Georgetown tonight by ourselves, no. You know.

Tom 1:02:15

I know, yeah. I know how to go.

Pat 1:02:18

And that was some advice some m uh uh uh older couple gave us. Bernie and I were very active with their children, like I was with the brownies, the girl skates, and all that kind of stuff. And then uh the children when they were in soccer, we never missed a game. Unless some, you know, somebody's out of town or something. But we did things with them. Now, for example, your dad, he he really gave to you all in soccer. He really, really enjoyed it, had great rapport with you all with the soccer that we kind of followed that way too.

Bernie 1:02:59

Well, Ken knew the game. Uh we didn't know the game as as uh first first soccer parents. Yeah. You know, so we learned uh yeah, we learned it from the sideline what we knew. And and our son always knew more than we did, of course, on that particular thing.

Pat 1:03:16

And the thing that Bernie and I socially enjoyed, we used to love to bowl.

Tom 1:03:21

To bowl.

Pat 1:03:22

Nice, yeah.

Tom 1:03:23

You guys have your own bowling balls?

Pat 1:03:25

Oh, yeah, and shoes.

Tom 1:03:26

Have you guys ever bowled a 300? No. Is that what it's called? Yeah.

Pat 1:03:33

Have I ever joined a 200? Yeah. A 200? Yeah.

Tom 1:03:36

I don't think I've ever done a 200. My record's probably like 170 or something.

Pat 1:03:43

Yeah. Well, then you didn't have a very good handicap.

Bernie 1:03:47

Well, we were in the handicap league, so it wasn't, you know, you didn't have to do great every night. Got it, got it.

Tom 1:03:54

But that was just like social for you guys. No, yeah, it was social.

Pat 1:03:56

We did it once a week. Nice. Yep. And then we quit when Cindy went to the University of Richmond. Because it counted up, you know. It counts up by the time you eat.

Bernie 1:04:10

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Pat 1:04:11

And all that.

Bernie 1:04:13

And the University of Richmond wasn't that cheap.

Pat 1:04:16

And Bernie has been excellent on cars. You know, he fixed up cars for all the grandsons. And my son, and my and your son, and your daughter, and yeah, let's talk about cars.

Tom 1:04:30

What is your favorite type of car?

Bernie 1:04:34

Well, I've I've I've started off with biddling with Colts, Dodge Colts, which was a Mitsubishi manufacturer in Japan. And I sort of migrated to Volvos once we owned one.

Tom 1:04:48

So Volvos are safe, right?

Bernie 1:04:50

Volvos are yeah, and I I wanted my grandchildren to be safe as possible. So that that's why we did the Volvos for the grandkids.

Tom 1:05:01

And what about you? If you had like um millions of dollars right now and you go buy any new 2021 car for yourself, what would it be?

Bernie 1:05:15

I really don't, you know, I can't visualize being in that position, first off.

Pat 1:05:20

But tell him how much you like the one you have, the vehicle. Oh, what is it?

Bernie 1:05:26

But we we drive a Honda Accord now. Okay. And uh that's you know, it's been a a great car. It's probably the best car that we've ever had. You know, and we've had you know, Volvos and and and BMWs. I I you know, they're they all got their flaws and uh good points. But this one is, you know, has a teeny little engine, but it's a turbo and it gets good great gas mileage. And I like that because I'm too tight to spend a lot of money on gasoline. That that seems like a waste. And it also, it's as far as I'm concerned, it's better for the environment as well. The less gasoline you burn through it, you know, the less harm you're doing to the environment as well. Maybe the last year they make an accord with a standard shift is a six-speed manual. So that had a lot to do with it.

Tom 1:06:24

Okay.

Bernie 1:06:25

And it has a lot to do with why I didn't like the Lexus, because it was an automatic. And I just don't feel in control.

Tom 1:06:32

Okay. Is there like any other benefits to driving stick other than um the the feeling of of switching?

Bernie 1:06:40

I think probably you can manage things better. I think it improves the gas mileage if you're careful. I think you can be I think you can work at it better than you can with an automatic. But I don't have any figures to prove that, but because I'd have to have an exact car with an automatic to compare.

Tom 1:07:04

Is anyone like Henry Ford or something an idol of yours or are any of these companies? Um like are you ever like really impressed by some of the engineering that goes into some of these cars?

Bernie 1:07:16

I'm impressed with them all. All of them? Yeah.

Pat 1:07:19

Do you ever look at uh car shows on TV?

Bernie 1:07:23

Oh yeah. I I I I typically look uh at Velocity, uh which is uh they have uh meekum auctions. Are you dealing with it?

Tom 1:07:34

Are you ever not impressed by car? Like is there a brand that um or a model that you're just like wow, I hate that one?

Bernie 1:07:42

Well, I didn't care for a pinto.

Tom 1:07:44

A pinto?

Bernie 1:07:45

I don't know that is it was a Ford model in the in the 1960.

Tom 1:07:51

Why didn't you like it?

Bernie 1:07:52

Uh it it I just wasn't impressed. Uh I I never drove one, so I uh didn't not like it particularly. I didn't care for some of the things that at one point in about 1970 or 71 or two, somewhere in that probably 1970-ish, uh they you you you had to have your seat belt hooked to start the car. And I had I had my seatbelt, I rented a car and had the seat belt hooked and it still didn't start. Oh, okay. And uh I thought that you know it was a f failure, failing component. So I didn't really care for that much.

Tom 1:08:35

The thought was good there, but yeah.

Bernie 1:08:36

And I got tricked another time with a rental car. Uh it sent me out to I mean, I I went to to rent a car and it was a particular model. And they were two sitting right next to each other, the same model, and I put my key in the trunk and unlocked the trunk, and I put my key in, but the it wouldn't run the ignition. Well, I I'd gotten the wrong car. Wow. So the the the trunk keys worked and uh but the ignition did not work cross car to car.

Tom 1:09:10

So you can unlock other people's cars basically.

Bernie 1:09:13

No, that was just a coincidental. Oh, coincidental. Coincidental that particular key from the car that I rented fitted the one next to it. Got it. Wow. It was kind of a good trick.

Tom 1:09:25

Yeah. What do you think about um like self-driving cars these days? Uh are you excited about that feature or do you kind of are you nostalgic for the past where I'm I'm not excited or not uh you know I I like some of the features.

Bernie 1:09:41

The fact that our current car will put on the brakes if you get too close or something, which hasn't happened too much. But uh or if it's on cruise control, it'll back off and and stay in a certain range of speed uh of the car that's in front of you, you know, you know, so that gets kind of aggravating on heavy traffic when you when you're about ready to change lanes and and the cruise control kicks back and and puts on the brakes, maybe.

Tom 1:10:10

Yeah, that's cool.

Bernie 1:10:10

It will put on the brakes.

Tom 1:10:12

What is that one of the innovations that you're most impressed with like since you've been working on cars as a kid till now, like what at the moment was like the um the most interesting innovation you thought?

Bernie 1:10:24

I think it's interesting that the that that happens, but I don't really particularly care for it. Okay. Yeah, although I it is a safety feature, you know. I like the only thing I like about it is the safety.

Tom 1:10:36

So what really was there an innovation that you did really care for that you that was really exciting? Like a certain model came out like that just really was impressive to you or stood out?

Bernie 1:10:48

No, no, not particularly. I was practical, you know, I was too practical in my younger years.

Pat 1:10:55

But you like the backup camera?

Bernie 1:10:58

I like I I like features in the in the cars, the backup. That's a that's a feature I like, a backup camera.

Tom 1:11:05

So I don't want to like jump in too deep because I will not understand everything, but when it comes to working on cars, do you have any advice? Is there any skill that someone could pick up like changing their oil or something that you know um would be useful to know?

Bernie 1:11:22

You know, it's it's nice to have a uh auto lift that you know, a car lift so that it that you don't have to crawl underneath to do it. Um but a simple process to change oil, you know, it's not about shaking. Shaking oil is important, it's changing it. You know, you need to have enough oil.

Tom 1:11:41

What's um the most difficult issue you've ever run into while working on our cars?

Bernie 1:11:48

Look, you're asking me a tough question. Um I I can't, you know, they've uh all uh all the problems I worked on were interesting. I found them interesting. I I said difficult, I I don't have any difficult problems.

Pat 1:12:10

But now that's working on a car. Suppose you're bringing one back to life after sat a wreck.

Tom 1:12:16

Oh that's what's the story, man.

Bernie 1:12:22

Well, I don't think there's any story.

Pat 1:12:24

I think there's a story. Which one? Remember when you had the colt in the backyard and you were gonna replace it with a new engine? Oh yeah, I when we went to bed that night, I said, Bernie, that one is not gonna fit in this one. And you said, Oh, I think so. And then he went out to work on it the next morning. He came in, and he might have been 50 years old, but he looked like he was 70 when he came in. He looked so bad.

Bernie 1:12:53

Yeah, yeah.

Pat 1:12:54

And I said, What's wrong? And he said, It won't fit.

Bernie 1:12:59

Well, the ch the transmission tunnel on a manual of Colt is narrower than one with an automatic. Different design on the transmission tunnel. Okay. And I had had a wreck and and I had a lot of colt parts because I had the Colt dragged home. Uh so I I I took the engine out and I found another Colt, same body, maybe a year newer or two, that had come with a five-speed manual transmission. And it wasn't a direct I mean, I had to I tried to put the automatic transmission up in the tunnel that that Pat's talking about. Otherwise, I put the engine in with the transmission connected. And then it it wouldn't go up into place because the tunnel wasn't wide enough.

Tom 1:13:52

Wow. Yeah.

Bernie 1:13:54

So it was kind of uh, you know, you were not out of big cabinet. Kind of hard on the gray hair, you know. So you had to get a different uh No, I just put the fi I put the fire speed on it, which was a better choice anyway. Okay. But I had to take the body grinder and grind an inch off the crankshaft. Whoa. In order to fit all the clutch on it, etc. And it all turned out well and and it lasted a long time. Nice.

Tom 1:14:21

And you just find that like really satisfying when when you get away.

Bernie 1:14:24

It was not not satisfying when it didn't fit.

Tom 1:14:28

But uh but does that make it more satisfying than when it eventually does? Probably.

Bernie 1:14:32

Yeah, yeah. Probably does, yeah.

Tom 1:14:34

What about what about like is there like a model that's been pretty easy to work on over the years that you you just haven't had any trouble with at all?

Bernie 1:14:44

Well, the car and the garage is never, you know, 40,000 miles. It hasn't had it that I should cross fingers because it hasn't given me any trouble at all. Uh tires would be the only problem that we've had, and they wore out and had to replace them.

Tom 1:15:00

Hmm. Cool.

Bernie 1:15:02

But I don't do that. I take it to you know, the tire tire place, and and they have the equipment, which I do not have.

Tom 1:15:13

What about any general advice in the field of driving? Like you guys gave me, I think, like a kit, you know, full of um like something to check your tire pressures. Uh like what do you think just the average driver needs to know?

Bernie 1:15:26

Um well the the most cars to now have uh uh essentially an a uh uh detector on each tire to tell the tire pressure. And if it gets out of range, either too high or too low, it'll light a light in your dash. You know, that's kind of cool.

Tom 1:15:47

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they do that now.

Bernie 1:15:50

But because it it becomes tricky which one, if one of them fails, which one did fail.

Tom 1:15:56

Yeah, so you still need one of those things to check.

Bernie 1:16:00

Yeah, tire gauge, certainly. Yeah, tire gauge. Oh yeah, I have to I have to keep this car, it's the car that's in the garage, I have to keep the the uh pressure range uh on the tires between 28 and 34.

Tom 1:16:14

Between 28 and 34? Okay.

Bernie 1:16:16

You know, all the nice little light will come on and let me know that. Yeah. In fact, I would like to run maybe 36, but it won't let me do it. Why do you want to sign better tire mileage?

Tom 1:16:29

Uh, okay. Nice.

Bernie 1:16:32

But uh that that's not a big deal. It's sort of a little, you know, maybe these tires run, you know, maybe they they go just as many miles at 32 as they did as some of the others might go at I mean, I don't know. The first set didn't last too well. But they were BF Goodridge's and I'm not a I don't care for them. They'd I've never had a good view BF Goodridge tire that lasts very long.

Tom 1:17:00

During your guys' life, what is like the most memorable moment like in America's history or even like the globe, you know, globally? Like what do you guys what stands out um like significant moments that uh were either good or bad for the country? You know, like through the 70s and 80s and 90s, like what do you guys like remember about the culture?

Pat 1:17:26

Well, I I think as far as being bad, 9-11 was so bad. Yeah, that's what I was and now I think what's happening in Afghanistan's bad.

Tom 1:17:37

Yeah, that's pretty bad right now.

Pat 1:17:39

That's really bad because the Americans that are there they say they're gonna let 'em come out, but it doesn't sound like it today. I mean this day, you know. But I was gonna say something else like during their lifetime together. We we we work well together and yeah, we get aggravated sometimes together. But Bernie's like magic. I break it, he fixes it. And I can always depend on him.

Bernie 1:18:13

She expects it. Sometimes I'm not successful though. Sometimes a trash can't a winner.

Pat 1:18:22

But anyway, he's he just has the knowledge. His sister, he Bernie has a sister, and she says that when he was a little boy, he would just go take the doorknob off the door. Why? Because he could and he'd put it back on. He's always had that knowledge or skills to do things like that. And he has more patience than anybody I've ever seen when he's putting something back together, whether it's small or big.

Bernie 1:18:53

When I was eight or ten years old, I used to tear the pocket watches apart and put them back together. Wow. If it didn't work. I mean, I would say sometimes I did, some of sometimes I didn't.

Tom 1:19:08

That's cool. Yeah, those things they have some pretty interesting mechanics, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Pat 1:19:13

And one thing I have enjoyed that maybe other people don't, but there's some others. I love to go to yard sales. And when your grandchildren were little, I would find so many things. And now that I am so old, I just keep riding by because all I see is baby clothes.

Tom 1:19:36

Why what excites you so much about like a yard sale?

Pat 1:19:39

Well then you you all came from pretty close together, and then they were just such foot things where had the tag still on.

Bernie 1:19:49

Pat likes a good deal.

Pat 1:19:51

And I like a good deal.

Tom 1:19:53

And you can probably find you like unique things too. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Pat 1:19:57

Yeah, I find some weird things. I'll buy it because it's different, you know.

Bernie 1:20:04

And she buys it because it's a good deal. That she just likes that good deal for you. She comes happ comes home happy when she's finds something that's worth a lot and for a little money.

Tom 1:20:21

Yeah. Everyone everyone should appreciate a good deal. You know? I don't know, I don't know why people don't. Um well, you're kind of talking about um kind of your relationship dynamic because Bernie is so patient, but maybe in a more general sense, um I mean you guys have been together for sixty years, so do you have any advice just um how to maintain a healthy relationship?

Bernie 1:20:44

Be nice. And take a day at a time.

Pat 1:20:48

Yeah, that's true. Oh, this is one thing I remember we talked about probably it was in the eighties or something, and I said, you know, if if you don't like something I say or you're aggravated, don't put me down in front of other people.

Tom 1:21:09

That's a big one. Yeah.

Pat 1:21:11

You know, wait till we're on the way home or get outside because it may be just misconstrued, you know, you don't know. And we've been good about that, haven't we?

Bernie 1:21:24

We try to be.

Pat 1:21:25

Yeah.

Tom 1:21:25

Yeah. There's a saying that's like uh praise in public and scold in private. Not scold's not the right word, but uh put down. Yeah, yeah. And I think um that's really important with relationships, just kind of being a team, you know, when you're out and about, but then also to your kids too. Like as parents, I think you really should be on the same page when you're talking to your kids and not kind of show them the the arguments behind the scene, right? Right. Yeah.

Pat 1:21:54

And one other thing about your children that we talked about is you can't be their friend and their disciplinarian. You know, be nice to 'em. But like when we do discipline, we really mean it. So just little things.

Bernie 1:22:18

Your children have to be your age before you can be friends. Yeah. Yeah. You can't be friends with a six-year-old. That was my grandfather's clock in case that can't worry.

Tom 1:22:33

Yeah, so I can edit some things out, so that probably I'll probably take that out or leave it in. I don't know. That's history right there. That's history. All right, I'll leave it in the case.

Bernie 1:22:44

It is history, actually.

Tom 1:22:45

What's the story behind the clock then?

Bernie 1:22:47

Okay, the the way our f family wound up with the clock was it was in uh my grandfather's home. Okay, and after his passing, he had two two daughters that lived in the home, you know, for for years. And in in 19 probably 46, the house caught on fire and burnt down. It was a nice beautiful brick house. And but it was was old, but you know, it was probably you know over a hundred years old, and it was it burnt very quickly. But they threw this clock, the grandfather clock, out of the window uh to the second floor to preserve it. And they threw it on top of the truck. Uh actually threw a mattress out and threw the clock out on the mattress.

Tom 1:23:36

Well, so it didn't take much damage?

Bernie 1:23:38

No, it did not. It does have a crack in it. It has a crack in it, but I don't know whether it was related to that. But that's we could tell that story if you wanted to.

Pat 1:23:48

Yeah, it got way and start to get it. But anyway, the top comes off and the clock did not work, but we took it to Stanton Virginia and had it fixed.

Tom 1:23:58

Nice. So if someone was a bad thrower, that clock wouldn't.

Bernie 1:24:02

No, I don't know. That's true. Oh, yeah. I mean, they always could left in the house the burn. Miss that mattress. Another five minutes, and then either my father who threw the clock at it or the clock, one of the other, probably would have gone if if it'd been another five minutes.

Pat 1:24:19

Now, who did your daddy play football against?

Bernie 1:24:23

Um Jim Thorpe.

Pat 1:24:24

Jim Thorpe.

Bernie 1:24:26

I don't know who that is.

Pat 1:24:26

Okay, I got some paperwork on that.

Bernie 1:24:30

Okay. He was the most famous Indian, I think, that ever played football.

Tom 1:24:34

Oh, really? He was like Native American?

Bernie 1:24:36

Native American, yes. Okay. Cool. He he he was uh the athlete of athletes or something, I don't know.

Pat 1:24:44

And his Bernie's uncle in 1900. Olympic judge in Belgium.

Tom 1:24:50

Wow. Olympic judge in Belgium.

Pat 1:24:53

Uh-huh.

Tom 1:24:54

It's very random. But was the Olympics in Belgium? Yes.

Bernie 1:24:58

The Olympics were in Belgium. Yeah, it's kind of hard to be an Olympic judge without having an Olympics at Columbia.

Tom 1:25:03

That was kind of a dumb question, wasn't it?

Pat 1:25:05

No, I said it the wrong way. No, I when the Olympics were in Belgium.

Tom 1:25:12

He was a judge. Cool. Um, one other thing I feel like I feel like kinda later in life at least you guys got pretty involved in the church nearby, right?

Bernie 1:25:23

Yeah.

Tom 1:25:23

So how is that church and how is like God and faith like played a role in your guys' lives?

Pat 1:25:29

I think it has.

Bernie 1:25:31

Sure it has. But uh the church itself, I I have been a deacon for years. But I'm off to deacon board now.

Pat 1:25:40

I did the bulletins for 17 years. And I was the church treasurer for ten.

Tom 1:25:46

Okay.

Pat 1:25:47

And we are now down to we're good if we have twenty people at church on Sunday.

Tom 1:26:01

Yeah, I don't know. Um it's kind of up in the air, right, with the pandemic and if you should or shouldn't go to church, you know, especially a lot of people they were really old.

Pat 1:26:10

So we're old.

Tom 1:26:11

Yeah.

Pat 1:26:12

We were all basically compromised.

Bernie 1:26:14

That's the biggest problem with our church itself is we don't um most of the people are old.

Tom 1:26:20

Yeah. Well, how about like before the pandemic? What kind of role did that church play in your life? And um, like I'm we were very active, enjoyed going, remember?

Bernie 1:26:31

Oh yeah.

Pat 1:26:32

And the pastor that we have, he really preaches right from the Bible. He's an excellent preacher.

Tom 1:26:40

Yeah, but I know that you guys were involved there. It seemed like um a big a big point of fulfillment um in your guys' life for many years while I was younger.

Pat 1:26:51

And then you see, Ken Ken was baptized as Springfield Baptist. And I'll never forget the preachers Povilada Ken, and he's uh he's he's very teachable.

Tom 1:27:05

Well, he read well. Well, you mentioned Springfield, like uh you guys used to live in Northern Virginia. What do you think about that area and how it's developed over the last you know 30 years?

Pat 1:27:15

Good place to be away from.

Bernie 1:27:17

Yeah, I can't say I can't say we ever enjoyed Northern Virginia very much. Yeah. I mean, you know, we enjoyed our neighborhood. Um I thought it was great for uh children when they were growing up because there were a lot of children to play with and the school was right across the street. So it was all convenient. Uh but we we never cared for the traffic and the crowds of people uh that you run in you have to compete with every time you go out on the road. It's getting worse every day.

Tom 1:27:53

Yeah, I I kind of enjoyed moving out of there to what is Tampa like for traffic work like? Um, so I don't go into the city too much. Like I'm gonna start working from home soon. And um Sabrina actually uh she's been online, you know. So she's gonna start, I think, commuting into Tampa for her fall classes, and then I'll have a better idea on it. But right now, I kind of live in like a retirement community and I just kind of stay there, you know? Yeah. Um, but the traffic's not too bad, but the Florida drivers are crazy, man. They're insane. Like, I don't think they know what a turn signal is, they'll just come past you like on the right hand side, like aggressively.

Pat 1:28:36

Are you sure you're not in Puerto Rico? Yeah, I'm just the way they drive. Yeah, and when you get to the light, they go beep.

Bernie 1:28:45

Yeah, and they pass you on the right on a two-lane road.

Tom 1:28:49

No, like on a three, if there's a three-lane road and I'm in the middle, sometimes someone will come crazy fast and pass me on the right. So I that way I know that they're deliberately not doing the right, you know. If it was a two-lane road, maybe they don't want to wait for me to get over, right? But like it's happened to me a couple times on three way three-lane roads where I'm like, okay, so you just Are you saying it was the three-lane roads that are going three lanes that are going your way?

Bernie 1:29:12

Yeah, yeah. Okay, I'm talking about two lanes, one in each direction.

Tom 1:29:15

Oh, oh, oh.

Bernie 1:29:16

That would be a six-lane road. Oh, yeah. That you're talking about.

Tom 1:29:20

A lot of the roads are bigger than that, you know. Um, so I haven't I haven't ran into that issue. But I'm just saying that they deliberately don't follow the the the rules very well. You know, and that that's one example. It's like, why are you passing me on the right? Whereas like in Northern Virginia, the tr the traffic was worse and it was insane and everyone was in a rush, but I just felt like people were like they were rushed, but they were at least playing within the guidelines a little bit.

Bernie 1:29:45

More predictable.

Tom 1:29:46

Yeah, they're more predictable.

Bernie 1:29:47

Predictable.

Tom 1:29:49

That's really important.

Bernie 1:29:50

That's important. Yeah. Because everybody knows what you're gonna do. You know, okay. Yeah. Can figure it out, can figure out what you're about to do.

Pat 1:29:57

And Virginia now has a law that if a policeman's over here, go with them on another lane. Uh you all may have that in Florida too.

Tom 1:30:08

Yeah, I think Yeah. I'm not sure.

Pat 1:30:10

It's a rule now that do that. And no handheld phones.

Tom 1:30:16

Yeah.

Pat 1:30:17

All that happened July 1st.

Tom 1:30:19

But all in all, I'd still, I guess, prefer it because the the traffic itself is it's it's no fun of being stop and go traffic, you know, and that's Virginia, Northern Virginia gets a lot of that.

Pat 1:30:29

So and and 95 is stopped all the time.

Tom 1:30:33

Yeah. The one other thing I wanted to talk about was um how have you guys maintained your health um all these years? You know, you guys are both in your eighties now. Um, do you have any advice uh for just like literally how to how to live that long? I mean, it's impressive, and you had to have been keeping up with it to Well, we have yearly physicals.

Pat 1:30:56

And I have my mammogram. There are certain things like women have a mammogram. And because of my age, I don't have to go have certain ones done. And I go to an enchrinologist because I'm diabetic. And I go every three months. And Bernie has physical and Bernie goes every three months now to a dermatologist because she's had some. It's every six months, actually.

Bernie 1:31:26

I had uh a mild version of skin cancer. Actually, it was on my shoulder.

Pat 1:31:32

We took a lot of vitamins and pills that were supposed to help you about the pandemic, like zinc, magnesium, and a whole bunch of stuff. Definitely D. Everybody needs D.

Bernie 1:31:45

Yeah, I've been taking vitamin D. Yeah, D is a good thing for the pandemic.

Pat 1:31:51

We probably don't exercise as much as we should. We used to walk a lot in all the dining. But we don't have a walk in the country, see, because the roads are too that's like I-95 up there. So much traffic.

Bernie 1:32:06

I mean, people would drive by 70, 70, you know, 70 miles an hour.

Tom 1:32:10

Get over to your um beach house and sometimes. Right. Oh yeah. That keeps you guys and the houses keep you guys active.

Bernie 1:32:19

I think you know being active is probably as as reasonable you can. In other words, if you feel bad, don't do it. But if you you know, if you can, do as much as you can.

Tom 1:32:32

Yeah. Well, we've always got projects like all these houses seem to me it seems like it's keeping you guys active and it's almost its own form of exercise. Oh, yeah, it yeah. I agree. And then just like eating healthy and stuff, I'm I'm assuming, right?

Bernie 1:32:50

We try to eat healthy. Sometimes we slide off the wagon. But we eat our salmon and we eat salmon. But neither one of us can afford to to eat much sugar anymore. Uh I'm I'm not diabetic yet, but if I continue to eat like I have at uh eaten in the past years, I probably would turn in to a diabetic.

Pat 1:33:15

Oh well I w and I'll tell you another thing. I my parents died from heart problems, my grandparents did. My mother's brother, and two brothers died from heart attacks. Well, anyway, a lot of heart attacks in the family, cousins and all. So I told my doctor, and he said, Well, tell you what, why don't you get a good evaluation? So he sent me for uh echogram, sonogram, karate arteries, and arteries in the leg, and everything came back fine, but I do have mild blockage in my uh karata arteries. But I knew that before I went. But they just said, he said, but you see, that's not bad because then there's moderate. And then by another stage, then we can do something about it, but then it don't do anything unless it's more than 50%. So anyway, it made me feel better to know.

Tom 1:34:17

So you just gotta check up on things and make sure you're fully fully aware because it was so much in the family. Yeah.

Pat 1:34:25

Yeah.

Tom 1:34:26

Yeah. At this age, I can get away with like, uh, I won't worry about that right now, but I mean, pretty soon I'm gonna have to be getting everything checked out immediately and you know, get good for make sure I'm aware of everything health-wise is going on.

Pat 1:34:39

Have you well no, I don't think you have to do it yet. There's a shingle shot, but I think you have to be 50 to do that. If you had chicken pox, you need to do that so you won't get shingles. But dip theory, you may not be intetanists and all, you might not be up to date on that.

Bernie 1:34:57

Shingles is something, shingle shot is something you should take at around 50. Yeah.

Tom 1:35:04

Well, I got some years on that. Yeah, you should worry. Yeah.

Pat 1:35:09

I think they ruled that the reason I felt so bad last summer, my thyroid was high. Everything was out of balance. My daddy's hands look like that. That's arthritis. See.

Tom 1:35:24

Yeah.

Pat 1:35:25

But it's not rheumatoid arthritis, so it's not something.

Tom 1:35:31

I actually interviewed someone who had rheumatoid arthritis. Uh-huh. But she had it from a young age. Uh-huh. Yeah. She was telling me about it and the struggles that she's had. Mm-hmm. She was difficult. Yeah.

Pat 1:35:42

This doctor we have that does the fingers fig the physicals, he takes time. Doesn't.

Bernie 1:35:51

Yeah, uh w we've always watched what we ate too. Sometimes we eat too many sweets, but as far as meats go, we stayed away from red meat and fried. And the fried food.

Tom 1:36:04

We You guys didn't drink much, um, at least during my lifetime. No. No, no. Did you guys drink much as like young adults? No. No. You did you guys ever drink?

Bernie 1:36:16

Uh I mean, maybe a s a beer to with friends or something, but not on a regular basis.

Pat 1:36:24

I might have a glass of wine.

Tom 1:36:26

Okay.

Pat 1:36:26

I'm not that fun.

Tom 1:36:27

But you guys were never much drinkers, so yeah. You didn't have to worry about that.

Pat 1:36:31

No.

Tom 1:36:31

That helps, I think. It helps a lot. I'm definitely trying to cut back on the drinking and maybe give it up all together. I think as I head into my 30s, it's not it's not as good of a look.

Bernie 1:36:44

Well, I mean, I don't think it it hurts you to to drink some, but it doesn't pay to overdo it at any time at any age. To you know, drink other words, you don't want to be a d a drunk for sure.

Tom 1:36:57

What else like is there anything else? We'll probably wrap it up, but um, what are you most proud of, or like what is one of your most fond memories?

Pat 1:37:05

Marryless man.

Tom 1:37:06

Marrying this man?

Bernie 1:37:08

It's I guess the same.

Tom 1:37:10

How was the wedding or and honeymoon? Where'd you guys go?

Bernie 1:37:17

Well, it was such a quick thing that uh we and we had no money and I I hadn't started a job yet. So we we just sort of took it took a little trip, a short one, and came home.

Pat 1:37:31

I was I'm laughing because remember you sprained your ankle before and you were hobbling all around, and then you kind of stepped on a rock and then you were jumping all around because your ankle hurts.

Bernie 1:37:45

I had a real bad sprain in my ankle the day before the day before we got married. Oh boy.

Tom 1:37:52

But yeah. Well, to end it off, do you guys have any like um specific advice to me? Like not just general advice, but you have any advice for me just to live a happy, healthy, fulfilled life?

Pat 1:38:07

We want you to have a safe, happy, fulfilled life. Do good with your job. And as far as I know, we we like Sabrina, and uh she'll keep you straight.

Tom 1:38:27

I like her too. Yeah, that's good.

Pat 1:38:30

And uh Bentley, he we we recognize him to be in the family.

Tom 1:38:37

That's very that's good. He I'm sure he'll really appreciate it. He's he is part of the family for us, so yeah, he's a cutie. Yep. All right, well, I love you guys, and we'll seem like you've had an exciting life. Thank you for sharing.

Pat 1:38:57

Yeah, I'll think of all the things that we should have told you.

Tom 1:39:01

Well, we can do this again sometime if you forget. Well, you guys passed down a lot of wisdom today. Right? If you say no, mean it. That was a good one.

Pat 1:39:10

Well, I I hope we guide you in the right direction. Uh and I think it's good that you and Sabrina have had this time together and things have gone good for you. I'm looking forward to the wedding, but don't wait too long.

Bernie 1:39:30

I'm probably looking for the grandkids too, but that's another side. I don't know if I'm married.

Pat 1:39:35

Wedding fur sat in in the world.

Bernie 1:39:38

I don't know what's I'm worried about the world's a more complicated place than when when we were when we came along. It was very simple. Wasn't any distractions.

Tom 1:39:50

Yeah. From talk I've talked to now both my grandparents in the last two days, and yeah, it's it it's radically different now. It's it's it wasn't completely simple, obviously, but in comparison, simple. So so much different. So much different. Um yeah, yeah. I mean, and even this next generation, I mean, I'm old now, so there's kids growing up with iPads in their face and stuff, and it's just a whole like you guys just have nothing in common with those kids that are like growing up with computers like in their faces from three years old. It's just it and and the the difference in generations will get bigger and bigger. Like, you know, like it's that with technology that gap is gonna keep growing, and it's it's weird. It's like people five, ten years apart don't always they don't have things in common nowadays. You know what I'm saying? Like I don't relate to 15-year-olds the same way I think um like 60 years ago, a 20 or something-year-old related to a 15-year-old because that 15-year-old just has a uh grew up with a whole different set of technology and resources than I did, you know. It's just just crazy how fast things are changing, you know.

Pat 1:41:00

Well, just think my mother passed away in 98, and I remember she said to me, What does fax mean? Wow. She had no reason to know because she hadn't worked and used the fax machine. And just think how much has changed since 98.

Bernie 1:41:21

Your children won't know what a fax is either. No, they won't for a different reason, yeah.

Pat 1:41:27

No, but I'm saying, you know, so much time. And what brought all this on? Those games, the videos, a lot of that's been bad for children.

Tom 1:41:42

Yeah, well, it's weird. I mean, this medium of podcast, um, it's even though it uses technology and stuff, it's pretty simple. It's it's it's nice to see something kind of like get a little more simple, right? We were doing big movies and you know, VR headsets, and then like the last couple years podcasts have exploded, which are the most similar to like radio as anything, you know. Like this people can listen to this conversation just like in their headphones or their cars, and I mean I like I like it. I don't know why, but it's it's kind of a step backwards from where we were headed, you know. At least just this this medium, you know. So I've I've really enjoyed it and yeah, I've enjoyed talking to you guys today. It's been awesome.

Pat 1:42:30

You learned a lot about us, didn't you?

Tom 1:42:32

Yeah, definitely.