The Drive Program
The Drive Program
Juice Bruns: Hip-Hop, Digital Art, and NFTs | #39
Juice Bruns is a rapper and he is a digital artist. Juice explains why he got into rap, his creative process, and some of the producers he has been collaborating with. We discuss digital art, his style, the software tools he uses, and his journey in creating both digital and non-digital art. We also discuss the NFT space and his experience building an NFT community. Juice is very dedicated to his creative pursuits and he puts out a lot of high-quality projects that you should go check out!
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Welcome back to another episode of the drive program. My name is Tom driver, and today my guest is juice Bruns. Juice is a rapper and he is a digital artist. And as of just recently, he has begun releasing some of his digital art as NFTs. So me and Jews talk a lot about rap. Why he got into rap, his creative process, things like that. And he's been making digital art for a while. So we talk about his style, why he went into digital arts and his journey. With creating both digital and non-digital art. And then just recently he is started putting out some of his digital art projects as NFTs. So we discuss, the NFT space, the web three space and how his experience has been there so far. Because he is doing so many different creative pursuits, we were able to eventually just start talking about art in general and some interesting, cool conversations emerged from that. I'm going to provide a link to all of his stuff in the description, but I will also be posting some of my favorite songs of his on. My social media accounts. So check that out as well. And then, would definitely recommend checking out his NFTs uh, if you're into collecting NFTs, but yeah, really amazing guy, awesome conversation. I always just love linking up with him. He's got a great vibe and, I'm really always impressed by his dedication to his creative pursuits. He's really committed and he puts out a lot of high quality projects. So please go support him in some capacity guys. All right. Enjoy this conversation. This is episode 39 of the dry program. With guests juice Bruns. Let's just catch up, man. How have you been it's been like, I think three years or something, man, like at least three years, maybe four. Yeah. No things are good, man. Caroline, my girlfriend and I, we bought a house a year ago. Yeah. In Baltimore city in Hamden. Congratulations man. Thank you. Yeah. I graduated from Towson in 2020 may, 2020, and I had a job lined up with black and Decker. I'd interned there the summer prior. But it sounds like similar to your situation with COVID the department. I was going to work in like 90% of them got laid off and they'd like outsourced elsewhere. So that kind of rattled me a little bit. I was like, what am I. Going to do now is pretty set. Like I didn't pursue any other job opportunity. Cause I thought I had this in the bag. So then I kept just doing little commissions. I could get painting, drawing some logo design, whatever I could really do. And I kept applying to jobs, kept trying to find opportunities like a more nine to five type based job and nothing really worked out. I would get to like the final interview, they'd go with a different candidate. So I was like, you know, I think now's the time I need to just lock in to the art and the music and give this a shot for like the next year. And if I can turn it into something and get some momentum, I'm not even going to consider nine to five jobs anymore and just try and make this my living and that's what's happened. So it's been one year officially since I've been doing freelance full-time as like my main source of. Whoa. That is awesome, man. I didn't know that you were like out of the nine to five life. Yeah, completely. initially when I started to string along projects, the more, I would think about the nine to five job, the Saturn, the more upset I would get, like this is not really what I'm supposed to be dealing. It's going to be tougher a bit trying to get, you know, everything going, but I know eventually it's, it's what I'm supposed to be doing. So, and I'd still say I'm at the beginning phase. Like it's not like I'm making crazy money and do anything insane, but like I can pay my bills and do what I need to do and more positive things keep happening. So I'm just kind of people. Dude. That is amazing. That's like, my dream is to have some sort of project that's fueling me. Right. I got like, you know, I got things like the app and the podcast. I haven't figured out how to like, generate much money from those things. And luckily I have remote job. It makes it much more like flexible. And I get to do things like this pretty easy, but like, yeah, I, I so badly want to have something that's like my own that is just like paying the bills and keeping me, you know, just, just keeping me out of the nine to five life, you know, but like so much respect for what you're doing. Cause it's like, you're still working the nine to five, but you're all these things outside of it. Even like after I decided, okay, I'm just going to do this. I'm not going to apply to any, any jobs. If like something really appealing came up, I would still shoot out uh, my resume and try and make it happen. But I was like, I feel like I'm doing the wrong thing. Like I, should I get another part-time job to kinda like make ends meet? And I was like, no, I'm just going to kind of suffer financially for like four to five months, six months. And then it just kind of worked out. But I mean, worked out by putting in like crazy hours and getting screwed over on pricing. And then it's like, you're trying to differentiate pricing with friends and like what your actual value is. So that's been the biggest thing I think I learned from this pursuing this full time is honoring your value and like your worth, regardless of like who the client is, even if it's your, your best friend, obviously it's your home or your best friend, your brother, like, you're gonna give them a little, little discount there, but. Yeah, establishing like groundwork and a foundation of this is my price. This is what I offer. And then it got to a point where I was like, well, I kind of need the money. if they say no to this price, what am I going to do? And I realized, I would say no to someone and something else would come along. And I'm like, man, I'm glad I'm like sticking to this because I kind of screwed myself over in the beginning. It's like, I'd get some dope projects, get to make some cool things, but I didn't really have much to show for it. And then I couldn't, I wouldn't be able to pay rent. I wouldn't be able to do X, Y, and Z. So that's been a big thing. I've learned the business side of it because, you know, as a creator, you're like, oh yeah, I'll make music. I'll make art and I can make cool stuff. But like, if you don't know how to navigate on the business side of things, then don't really matter how good you are, unless you have a management team to support. For sure. No, it seems like the fact that you didn't get a side hustle or something like kept you hungry, kept you, you know like there's, there's that phrase like starving artists. Right. But it forced you to like figure out what your value is and be like, no, I literally can't this week, unless you pay me the full amount I'm deserved, you know, whereas if you had that, like, if you were just waiting tables or something, you're like, all right, well, you know, I can just take a pay cut and maybe get my art out there, you know? But I, I don't know. I love being in those situations where you're just like, it's all or nothing, zero to a hundred. You, you have to do this. I put myself in a couple of situations like that in life where I don't know, I almost just thrive in like that kind of situation. Like around the same time I was laid off too. And I didn't get my projects like up and running, but I was in no rush to go find a job. Like I was, you know, I was like sitting in the trenches of, of like poverty for a second, because there's something magical about just having like no savings and being like, I need, I like just feeling like everything is riding on this. Not just money too, but like you invest yourself into it. You're like, this is my identity now. And I can't let, I can't let this fail. You know, it's like powerful. I love that description. There's something magic. Like there's something so amazing about that moment in that state where it's like, I'm starting at zero right now. it's up to me and having it's important to have a good support network behind you, which I do my family, Caroline, my girlfriend, some close. But yeah, that's like the most exciting thing when you're like, okay, I'm committing to this. I have nothing else right now, but I'm gonna make it happen. I think I functioned well in that situation too, with your back against the wall and you kind of a little chip on your shoulder, I've navigated my whole life like that. Yeah. And on the flip side, I feel like once you have success, now there's something to lose. Right. And I feel like people, people who are really good at this, like when they find success, their mentality stays in that poverty mindset. like a famous rapper will be successful, but then they'll change their goals to be like, no, I want to do a fashion brand. Now, now they're back in that mindset of like, I'm unsuccessful, even though they might have success in one area. Like someone who is really talented at, at pushing forward can always change their mindset to like, you know, find. That rhythm, where they feel like, you know, they are in the trenches still, you know, so I like what's going on to get them charged up again, and what's gonna help them tap back into that initial feeling before they got to where they're at. Totally. Yeah. Yeah, man. So I feel like that's a feeling you should hang on to. And like, I don't know. I would go, I will go right back in the trenches too. If, if I felt like that's what I needed next, you know? Yeah, yeah, no, that's a good way to put it. I think I subconsciously do that without being like, oh, I'm going to go do that now. It's just kind of, you can feel when contentment's coming along, when you're like, oh, I'm a little more comfortable than I was, you know, five months ago. I don't need to put in 10 to 12 hours some days, you know? But yeah, I think I have good self-awareness of when I need to really put my foot on the gas and when I need to step back and take some time for myself and be with friends. And that's another thing I've been trying to work on. you have all these goals you want to accomplish. I'm sure you can relate. You have all these goals you want to accomplish, but you have to nurture yourself and you have to take care of yourself. So when you're putting in all this effort and energy, you're in like a good to decent mind state. So what you're creating, isn't burning you out. Isn't making you miserable. So you're actually enjoying the. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, man, there's this podcast is not successful by any means. Right. But I think I realized that it was something I needed because it, it helps me connect with people to like make friends, to reconnect with friends like this. I realized like, this is like a healthy thing for myself. Right. And like, when I was working on the app all the time, I was just always, you know, alone working grinding. And I don't know, you don't get that like source of inspiration when you're just isolated. so you work on music and art, right. Or, like drawings, digital art. So I, I wanted to talk to you just about like art in general. Right. But I feel like you can't come at art directly, always. Right. You kind of have to come indirect sometimes. Like, you know, you need to get inspired. You need to go be with friends or nature or something. You can't just like. Sit at the computer all day and expect to like come up with new ideas, you know? Exactly. No, I liked, I liked that point. I think it's both, I think it is direct and indirect because there's plenty of times where let's say I'm at like a creative block point. That's a good time when it's like, you're coming off of a S a stream, a series of like, okay, I've been making good stuff, but now I'm like, I don't really know what to do next. That's a good time to go hang out with friends to like, go somewhere new. Just go, go to the gym, go play basketball. I played basketball a lot. So that's like a good way I can get out weekly to kind of clear my mind. But honestly for me, spending too much time thinking about what I'm going to make next is more of a detriment to my creativity. I just need to start putting like pen to paper. Brainstorming ideas, like actually drawing, actually painting whatever. And that's how I generate motivation and inspiration is by starting. So if that answers the question, I kinda got lost in my thoughts. I didn't even ask a question. no, you know what I'm saying though? Like the point, yeah. So you're saying like, yeah, sometimes you need a distraction, but sometimes you need to just go all the way in and just get started when you don't know, like the worst place to be is in the middle where you're brainstorming or something like you either want to be like fully distracted with some basketball or a friend or something like this podcasts where you have to focus on it, or you'd rather like just grind out for 10 hours, but have no clue what direction you're headed in or something, you know, because then like getting started is, is basically a big part of the battle. And I'd say getting out and doing that. It goes back to like finding the balance. Like I have a good rhythm of balance in, okay. A few times a week, I'm going to go do XYZ outside of creating. So when I am creating I'm in a better mindset and can focus more on this and don't feel like, oh, I haven't taken enough time for myself to be with my friends. But I feel like it's more just sitting down starting. That's how I am productive in creating. When I just like start you let's talk, let's talk like some specifics about your digital art. Like what softwares do you use? Like what, how how'd you get these skills? I mean, I guess this is what you studied, right? So graphic design in college. So that was more like an Adobe suite using illustrator, using Photoshop, using premiere, all that. And it wasn't until my junior year, I really started taking, cause music had been my main priority even when I was in. So like, I wasn't really trying to get better at art my freshman, sophomore year. So it was just doing music and, and all that. But my junior year I got really into it. Cause I started understanding the programs more. So I'd say for like two years, I was mainly just using illustrator and Photoshop. I would take like a physical drawing I had or sketch whatever and then turn it into something digital. And then after I graduated, I got an iPad. So now I primarily use procreate because I like the physical act of like drawing using procreate helps accelerate like the efficiency of projects I can do more. I can undo mistakes easier which also led me getting into animation. So I do a lot of like 2d animation, which is all done through pro. Even though you make digital art, I feel like your style a lot of times is like a painting or like something it feels hand drawn. Right. So what kind of like styles do you like to use? I don't, I don't understand a lot about art drawing styles, But is there a couple different, like like art theories that, or, or styles that you, you tend to like to work with yeah, I think it's like a simple way to put it is, so it was like a kid in middle school, high school. I was a big doodler, like in class and stuff. So I just call it kind of mixed with like graffiti that type of style. What you think of when you think of graffiti. So like just a more advanced developed, like doodle graffiti style. But at the same time, I work really hard to get that like realism of like, look at a photo. It's like, I want to get this person to look as close in the drawing as I do in real life. So I like to like, kind of combine those two where there is a really good sense of realism, but also this fun, creative doodly graffiti style mixed with it. I've been following your page. I think probably since it was created or pretty early on and yeah, I mean, you've put out some like really beautiful, like realistic paintings of, of must be like people are friends in your life. Right. But then you're able to put like some sort of abstract, maybe something in the background or, you know, it's definitely a mix of both, right? Like realistic and abstract art kind of melding together, you know? I had to kind of figure out too. It's like, okay, as an artist, you want to develop to a certain degree of style. So like when they see it, it can be recognizable like, oh, that's that person. And that's not like my main goal, but it's something to think about. Right. Cause you want to have, like, you can always branch out and experiment off of that, but I've kind of honed into that, especially over the past, like six or seven months, really pushing that style because I found one, I enjoyed doing it the most and two, you can get some pretty cool results and then it's, open-ended on what I'm able to create. I don't feel like I put myself in a box by having that style. Cause I do just as many digital projects that I get hired to do, I'm doing physical, painting, drawing as well. That last summer I got to do my first mural in Baltimore city. It was like this big three story 400 square foot wall Back to what you're saying about do you need to go find inspiration? Do you need to do this? I like being able to go between physical and digital art because sitting in front of a computer or a screen all day, I'm way more strained at the end of the day when I do physical art. It's so nice. A little more freeing, you get to like move around especially when I'm doing like the bigger projects where I'm doing murals and all that. But, I love having that balance. I think it's important in it. It allows me to kind of, what am I trying to say? I just liked being able to have both outlets because there's times where I'm like, man, it's nice. I don't have to get out all these materials. I can literally sit on the couch and draw something, but there's other times where it's like, I need to be moving around. I need to be engaged physically and like in the painting. So I love being able to bounce back and forth between both mediums. Yeah, man, I feel like that's the worst part of a nine to five is that it feels essentially. The same, for most of workweek, right? Where even if you're working like 80 hours right. A week, but you're jumping between digital art and physical art, and maybe you're making some music and, you're making some art, like on a mural in the town hall, and then you're making some in your bedroom and, have like a bunch of different projects you can jump between, then it doesn't feel like you're doing the same thing 80 hours a week, you know? And picks it up and it's different. And, and like you said, you might just be at the park and see something and you take a picture of it draw later. Well, I mean, that's part of the process. Like you're always kind of working, but you're also like never really working, you know? Exactly. having that balance. And then even at adding music to the equation. So it's like, I kind of have three things, all creative things that I'm able to like bounce back and forth between that really helps enhance each one by taking time, even if it's just a day or two where I'm like, cause there's probably, you know, a week or two where I'm not even thinking about, well, I'm always thinking about music, but I'm not recording. I'm not actively creating anything for it. Then I'm like, okay, I've gotten these projects done. I need some time to make music. So I'll spend like a day or two working on that. So I mean, it's such a blessing to be able to do that. And I want to keep working hard. So I'm able to always do that. There's so many fun topics. I want to jump between, but this is a good time just to say when we would hang out, we would just like freestyle all the time, man. And I have so many good memoirs, dude. I didn't rap much leading up to that point. You know, I did some in high school and I haven't really wrapped since then, but like you, I don't know. We just wrapped all the time for like a couple months randomly in like 2018. And I just had a freaking blast, man. And, I'm obviously not. Oh, gee, like a professional rapper or even it's not even like a side project of mine, but I, you just made it so much fun and encouraged me to always like, be down to spit bars. And I don't know, man, you just brought the right kind of energy. I'm not just going to freestyle in front of anybody. I'm not good at it, you know, but I just remember, you always had like the best energy dude and you were always like encouraging me to like, just, just freestyle and like, not give a fuck. And man, we just had, maybe we were just drunk or something, but, but, but like we just had so much fun spitting bars for like hours and hours, like several different weekends. I remember. Yeah, dude. I mean, no, I appreciate you saying that, but I remember getting so high when Carol would text me when I knew I was coming down that weekend to visit and she was like, GDS, come coming this week until I'm like, dude, I felt the same way about you. I'm like you just radiate a good energy. All free-styling is like, I like free song. Cause it's fun. And especially in like that environment where you're around other people, but it's just energy. So it's like, you can be saying bullshit, but with freestyle it's like just have some. John, you know, work with the beat, but now I had such a good time doing that with you, man. For real. Yeah, man. It's like a live show right there. You know, you just kind of got a vibe with it, but, but yeah, man, so like the music was like your main passion and it seems like it's still pretty much is, but like you said, you know, the digital art started I'm paying the bills more. Right. So you were saying that you got to kind of manage that and make sure you still set aside time to make, music, you know, because I mean, you were putting out like real music videos and real albums, your music was at a quality where I felt like that could be your main thing. Like you could be, professional, you know, at least making a living doing, doing rap as well or, or some sort of music. So I'm glad that you haven't stopped that pursuit. I'm glad that, you're still making time for it and that. You know, you have this nice lifestyle I assume that the digital art indirectly inspires the rap and vice versa, even if you're not working on it, like there's some indirect uh, they must feed off each other, you know? Yeah. They definitely do. And yeah, music ever since I graduated from, from high school and it wasn't right when I graduated, I'd say it's been like seven years since I've really been pushing music. So just a little context background. So I was like, sports was my main thing. Growing up. I was a three sport athlete I was on track to go play division one lacrosse somewhere, but then I got a really bad injury. I got in a snowboarding accident in eighth grade and ended up in the ICU for like three or four days. I was out of school, out of sports for a while, but then my sophomore year of high school, I got a really bad concussion and went to see a neurologist and they're like, you're going to be okay. And you go through a normal protocol for this concussion, but I recommend that you stop playing contact sports. And so both my parents were college athletes and they understood the severity of the situation, but they're also like you got to watch out for you and we think it's the best thing for you and your future if like peace out playing sport. So when I was 17, I just stopped playing like right on that cusp of like, oh, where am I going to go play in college? so I kind of like lost my identity and didn't really know what the fuck to do. Like, you know, it's like every day, all I did was think about sports and after-school practice, you know, once a week, a game I was playing for school and travel and club, all this stuff. But I'd always had this interest in art. So I started painting, drawing all that. And then I started just like writing poems as like a therapeutic outlet. And being that hip hop was like my favorite genre music to listen to. I was like, well, what if I just try and start like rapping so I kind of did it low key in high school, but not anything serious. So I was probably like 20, when I really started pushing music and started releasing songs on SoundCloud and getting a positive reaction from people. So I was like, you know, I'm gonna keep doing this. Cause I didn't go to college right after high school because I didn't really know what to do. I was like, why don't I give this a try? I was like doing landscaping at the same time, but all I was doing was music. So that was for like two years. And then I started to be able to book like local shows, you know, small venues where it's like a hundred to 150 capacity. You know, 20 or 30 people would come out. I just loved it. I loved being able to like create and express things musically. It like really helped me work through a lot of shit that, that was a repercussion of not being able to play sports and the emotional trauma that like physical shit that happened. So I feel kind of indebted to it in a way, cause it helped me navigate through like the most difficult time of my life but then as time went on, I was like, I just want to get better at this. I just love it so much. And fast forward, probably two years after that I started getting on the opening circuit and I got to open up for some really big artists like Davies black bear, a boogie with a hoodie fairly a bunch of people. So when COVID hit though, cause I was on the stream of doing shows all the time when COVID hit, you know, you couldn't perform anymore. Go do live shows more than making musics. I thought I had a good library bury like vault of music. I was more focused on the live performance. I could connect with people and like bring in new fans and people who liked my music. So when COVID hit it, I kind of took a step back and I wasn't creating as much. And I was like, I need to figure out a way to actually make ends meet I'm graduating, like I was saying before. So yeah, it definitely was on the back burner for like all the 2020, basically. I wasn't making that much music. I put out like one or two songs. But then once I got things more under control financially, I was like, what am I doing? I love this shit. I gotta get back on it and just like lock into it. So and then it's funny when you like with anything, when you fully mentally block. Things just started happening and you're like, I'm going to do anything. I need to make this work so last summer this guy hits me up on Instagram. Cause he heard a song I released and he's like, yo, I really like your vibe. He's like my name's Peter I'm from Copenhagen. And he he's in like his mid thirties, late thirties. And he plays this guitar riff like over my song and sends it back. I'm like, yo, that's sick. He's like, if you're interested, I would love to maybe work together. And I was like, hell yeah, that'd be awesome. A few months go by. We were like FaceTime started talking. And since then we've released four about to be five songs and I'm exclusively just working with him at the moment. So he's his producer from Copenhagen plays like four instruments. Crazy talented has been doing music for like 20 plus years and we just mesh so well and it just revived my love for it. And it's just been incredible, dude. That's awesome, man. I'm trying to give a little context. No, dude, I'm glad you shared that story. I was kind of aware of, why you got into rap. And I remember used to always tell me, with the fitness app and stuff, you're like, I wish I could test out your app. I wish, you know, I'm an athlete at heart and stuff like that. And first of all, I'm sorry that, you know, you weren't able to pursue that career, but also I feel like athletes have like a certain mentality similar to the mentality we were talking about of like being in the trenches, like the starving artists, like you got to kind of make it. And I feel like if you were always making music or something, It might be a little softer. I'm not trying to make fun artists, but like you might have a little softer mentality about things. And I feel like that athlete's mentality transferred really well to your artistic pursuits. You had to be business savvy all sudden to succeed in this. And I don't know, I, I don't, I lift, I don't play any sports anymore, but I always think back to like, when I used to play very high level soccer and just how intense I was, and I'm able to put that into my app, my podcast, my career, you know, there's this certain level of just, you have to win. You have to just, you know, succeed with a competitive sport. You know, that I, I feel like really helped fuel you to just not be a casual, you know, art maker. Totally. I think about that all the time. And I talk to people about that specific thing all the time. And I, I can't speak on how, if I were just to make art from a young age, never played sports, how my mindset would be, but I'm pretty confident that it would not be what it is. And I think it's such an advantage. Having played sports at a high level to integrate the mindset and the values you learn when being on a team and like working with other people, but like individually what you need to do to get better. And it took a little bit to be able to actually incorporate that mindset with art. It's like, yeah, but it's not the same. I don't wake up at five o'clock and go to the gym and then like run and, you know, so it's like figuring out how to actually utilize that as a creative was like a weird kind of process. And it wasn't like, I was actively thinking about it like that, but that's what it was. But once I figured it. How to kind of make that transition and use that mindset with art. I mean, I just feel like the momentum can't be stopped, you know, and it goes back to that point of when you get content, how can I find that next thing to like, revive that hunger? And that's just, that's like that athletic mindset. Yeah, man, you gotta, you gotta do what's uncomfortable. Right. And that whole situation was obviously uncomfortable and, and it, naturally pushed you right. To, to just find something that you would never. Ever even thought about pursuing. And then on the flip side, I feel like if you did pursue lacrosse, like you probably wouldn't be able to pursue that as a career. You know, post-college like, you could be a lacrosse coach, you know, but I was hitting those same walls with soccer, like route 18. I was like, I'm I could go play soccer in college, but like, I don't want to be a soccer coach, you know? And my dad was like, even if you went pro for soccer, you're not good enough to play in England. Right. You would do that in America until you're like, you know, 30, and then you would need a different career for the next 30 years. Like, you know, that's not going to make you enough money to retire. and, and not to like hate on anyone, who's pursuing sports as a, as a career or a passion. And, and I even did consider being a soccer coach for awhile, but things only last so long, as far as like your, your youth and, you gotta either do something like very specific in it, or you got to transfer that energy somewhere else. Either way. I feel like, you know, right. No, totally. Because I get both sides of it. I get it's like, if all there is nothing else on your mind, why not pursue soccer and like go for it and then try and utilize the platform you've created from playing the sport to doing the next thing. But it's just like, you gotta listen to yourself in those situations, if you have the option to play play, but if or not, it doesn't matter. But what I'm getting at is it's just about the individual. And for me now, looking back, I'm really glad it should be as it was because it's like, I still deal with a lot of like the physical repercussions of the injury, like this. But at the same time I'm so it's the best thing that ever happened because you're right. I wouldn't have played, or I wouldn't have probably gotten into art or music, at least not to the degree that I am now. If I were to play college lacrosse and then have some like nine to five job that was just like maybe a decent paying job, but not something I was passionate about. So I'm super grateful that it happened is like a shitty as it was in the moment when I was going through it. I'm just so, so stoked. It happened because it opened up a whole nother part of my life and introduced me to so many dope people and experiences, opportunities that I never, never would have been able to experience if the injury didn't happen. Yeah, man, that's crazy. I, I don't know, just to think about the two journeys you were about to like go down and like the differences and I mean, it's a road not taken, so we'll never know, I feel like I want to return to rap, but I feel like we have to just hit on the NMT thing for a second. Yeah. I was wondering if you were gonna want to talk about NFTs because what's crazy is that. You were, you were going to school for digital art, right. And I remember when you first put up your Instagram page, I was like, oh, that's really cool. Obviously I was a big fan of your rapping. Like I just viewed you as a rapper. So I was like, that's cool that he's making art. And then dude, within like a year later, like being a digital artist was like the coolest fucking thing in the world. All of a sudden, like all of a sudden NFTs are exploding. One of my friends is now like a digital art collector. Right. He got into crypto and then he started buying NFTs. I did a whole interview with him just about buying Anaptys, you know? So like, I feel like. It's a, it was a randomly cool miracle that you were just coming out of your degree. You started doing the digital art and then all of a sudden there's this new medium of, not just putting it out there, but making money. I assume this was very exciting for you, but, can you just tell me about your journey with, with NFTs? Yeah. It's brand new. I'm just kind of entering the space, but yeah, it's, I never really thought about that. Like seeing the digital LAR that I'm putting out and then all of a sudden, you know, it's such a popular thing in the NMT space, but yeah, I heard about it a lot, especially as a creator, like people asking like, Hey, are you gonna like release these NFTs? Are you gonna end? I'm not one to just start jumping into something without a little information, a little research on what's going on. Cause that at the beginning, I mean, it's still in the beginning and if T as a whole. I didn't really know, understand the process. So I'm like, I'm not just going to put art up there if I don't know what I'm doing or like how the space even works. So the first time I probably heard about it and really considered like, oh, I should do it is like a year ago. And then I passively would like read articles and be like, ah, I guess I'll do it eventually. But felt just like I was already wearing a lot of hats and I was like, I don't know if I can like take on a new space. It seems like it takes a lot of time and effort. So then a few months ago, my buddy commissioned me to do a painting for forum, but instead of doing a fiscal painting, he was like, can I commission you to make an NFT for me? It was actually a digital drawing. So I created the digital drawing forum and then like gifted him the NFT. And so now he owns it. So that was my first time where I'm like, this is actually a good way to learn it. If like people want to commission things where it's like, I don't have to do these big releases and drops. It's like, I can understand it. Okay, this is how you upload it. This is how you meant it, how you do all these things. So that was great. Cause that really helped me find other resources too. Like, oh, this will give you information when you're a beginner and what you need to do. So then that happened again with one other person. And then actually just like two weeks ago, buddy of mine he was asking if I'd ever considered doing NFTs and like putting my music up right. And trying to utilize that platform for my music. So we had a phone call and basically he's established a name for himself in the community over the past year and has a really good following and is involved in some of like the innovation of the space and all this. It was one of these moments where I was like, this feels kind of too good to be true, but I'll just take it. He's like, I want to help get you integrated in this space. He was like, it's really hard as a new artist in the NFT space to be able to, to get going and create a community when you have no connects to people who are already established in this space. So he basically like walk me through the steps of like, Hey, here's a good foundation of what your price point needs to be. Here's here's the types of pieces. And whether you want to drop one-on-ones or additions like this is, this is a good way to start out to kind of like lay the framework and start creating a community. So I put those up last week on Tuesday was I put up my first two additions and a one-on-one on. So the additions on are, are on open, see the foundation or the one-on-ones on foundation and within like 48 hours. Five of the edition sold and it's just been crazy to see, like, I didn't understand that, like creating a community you're just on Twitter all day. Like when you're in the NFT space, you're just fucking Twitter all day. And like, it's crazy to me, dude. And so I've been trying to spend as many hours as I can throughout the day, like connecting with people, but just trying to learn more. Cause it's just, it feels like this infinite space and there's always something else to learn. But I'm super excited about it. And just to have another outlet where you can sell art and put your art up and connect with other artists, it's insane. But I still, I still feel like my knowledge is very beginner level, so I, I can't speak too much on this space as a whole, but just that I'm excited to be getting into it and to be meeting these new people and learning more about it. Yeah, man, dude I, I'm not surprised at all that it kind of pulled you in based on your interests and your hobbies, your artistic pursuits. You know, there's like a huge paradigm shift happening in the technical industry right now. It's towards it's web three. I'm sure you've heard that word, but I think in two, three years from now, all of your art clients for your art projects will prefer NFT, you know, as, as payment methods, like I think it just, it will be the standard for music files to, and our projects and everything. Like, I could put this video out as an NFT. possibilities with this technology are absolutely endless, you know, it's, it's almost like when we first invented the website, you know it's a good way to think about it because people thought websites were just like magazine pages on the internet, you know? But they turned into these crazy, you know, platforms that we use. And I don't think we've even touched the surface of, of what it means to own a digital asset online and, and what that could mean moving forward. Right. I mean, it's it's so, yeah. Are you in this space, do you collect or anything like that? So I I've gotten pulled into it. Just from podcasting dude, as far as like I've done like four or five interviews now people who are in the space and, and by the way, none of them are even. Like the same thing. So I I've interviewed someone who is into crypto mining, right. Someone who uses their energy to, to confirm payments on, on the crypto platforms. And, and I've talked to someone who, you know, makes art I've talked to someone who is a digital art collector, and then I've, I've got one interview lined up. My friend is creating a business around this. So I have interviewed him yet, but I'm friends with him. I kind of have an idea of what he's doing. He is putting video games up as NFTs. So it's like the original Pac-Man, you know what I'm saying? So instead of buying a pitcher, you buy like the OJI Pac-Man, you know what I'm saying? And you can go to Oak, you're gonna be able to go to open sea and like play this little game. Like you're going to own a video game and. I think it's just like the tip of the iceberg with his idea, because I think what's going to happen is that they're going to make this technology open source and people are going to be able to start building video games and they're all the NFTs are going to become like little building blocks of these games. And they're going to it's like, if you were a game developer and I was a game developer, because of the way web three works are two video games can sync up. And th you know what I'm saying? So that's actually crazy. Yeah. Super creative, like a approach in like, A business plan. That's awesome. I'm excited to see what, what he does with that. That's incredible. Yeah. So there's entire companies that are emerging you know, there's people like you that are freelancers, right. And they're doing projects, but there's people that are building new big platforms. Like there's going to be the new Twitters and new Facebooks and new, new Amazons and Spotify is that, that emerged on these type of web three technologies. I understand how it works from a technical standpoint. I'm, I'm, you know, I, I just work in that industry and I listened to podcasts and people from that perspective I bought one of these little building blocks of my friends, like video game NFT just his proof of concepts. And I, I want to get into like buying some digital art, but I haven't yet, you know just cause I haven't had the money, honestly. Like I've been hit 10 of teased all the time. I just haven't had the money. As I started to develop more of an understanding for it. I was like, well, you still have to pay gas fees to mint and get your art onto the blockchain and like have it available for people to purchase and collect. It's crazy how much pieces are being sold for and how much people are paying for things. And then it's, it's really interesting to, to see as I'm like paying attention more to like in Twitter, like how people are talking about certain artists and projects, how you generate more value for your projects and how you kind of get that to grow over time. I'm just so intrigued and so excited by this space, because like you're saying, I think it's still at its early phase and it can grow into so much more. and I like it as a creator, being able to like have utility with your projects or. You don't even draw anything crazy, but it's like, oh, with this drawing, like you also get XYZ, you know, for like people to unlock her. It's like a, almost like a pass to access. You see? Like, I don't know if you pay attention to like Gary V they're able to like have one-on-one access to him if they purchase this NFT. I love that idea of being able to grow a closer relationship with people who are interested in what you're doing by adding that. And it's funny to see a mix of reactions. A lot of artists like are like, my art is a utility. Like the work I put in as a utility, which I totally get. But I, I like the idea of being able to add more to it and have another way to, to, to progress the relationship with people, paying attention to what your. Yeah, man. It's it's I think I just said earlier, but it's a paradigm shift, which means it's, it's a Cray is everything's changing, you know, and it's, it's pulled me in, like I said, just being, like having a podcast at this time, period, I realized like, wow, this is very special. Like I get to like all my friends or, or a lot of my friends are getting involved in some way, shape or form. And like now I get to enter. That's why I kind of, I'm not involved, but I just know so much about it because like, just everyone wants to do interviews and talk about it and share ideas about it as, as it's like emerging, you know? But it also, so like my app is considered like web to right. That's like the old paradigm mobile, like just mobile apps in general are. These closed platforms that are kind of part of the old paradigm and those businesses will still exist, but it's kinda made me slow down with the app and be like, wait, I don't want to build the, the last cool app of the old paradigm may. Maybe I do, but, but maybe I need to like slow down and think about if or how I can be part of this new thing going on. And I think it's like, like you said, it's in its infancy. So I really am, I'm in no rush with that. But it's forced me to do a double-take and that's kind of why I'm doing so much podcasting right now. I'm like immersing myself just with all sorts of like ideas and things and seeing like what sticks and maybe what I should pursue, like on a platform level, with the fitness app or, something slightly different. Totally. No, that's smart to be able to like, recognize that and take the step back. So for the app where you actually, one of the people creating it, or the only person who developed it, like on the technical side, or did you have someone else actually develop that? so I developed the app for the first, like two or three years on my own, you know and then I brought in two guys to help me for like a summer and then one of them stopped working with us and then one of them stayed with me. And so that guy is definitely more of an expert than I am, but I've always like I taught myself to code on this app. It was kind of like how I educated myself, And then When I started the podcast, that was when the app was in like a pretty decent state. And so that was when I was like, okay, I'm going to try to figure out how to market this thing for us. And so I switched gears some then, and so I've spent half my time now doing podcasting or different types of marketing just trying to grow this brand, you know, but I have a technical career and I still keep my hands in the, in the code. And, and I like to work on it and touch it up. But have one guy who he's definitely better than me, so I let him take the lead on some of the more difficult things we need to do. That's sick though. I, yeah, I, I had a feeling that you were involved in the actual development of the app, but so who'll moving forward. If you're going to continue. And a web three or w however, you're going to do that in the future to, to be able to be involved in that part of the process, not just like, oh, I have this idea, and this is what I want the app to be. I think it just gives you an advantage and what you're doing. So that's dope. yeah. Thanks, man. I think I've told you this before, but the whole. Idea was to integrate fitness with video games. Right. So when it comes to web three, you can build a whole platforms that are decentralized and kind of run off of something like a theory. Um, But also I'm working on this space story that'll like integrate into your workouts. And so there's like cool, like space imagery and things like that in the app now. And um, Wondering if maybe I should just have like a web two platform that has certain NFTs or something embedded in it, or like, you know, when you get like an achievement on a video game, you know, instead of that, just being an achievement, maybe it's an NFT now, something I, you know, that's just, that's just one way that I'm thinking about maybe incorporating it or, you know, without totally switching gears, but there's, definitely going to be some way I get pulled in, yeah. No, I liked that too. Cause like you don't have to abandon web two, there's a way to like bridge the gap where they can be, working simultaneously together. that'd be cool. Yeah. I'm, I'm excited to see like where that, how that transitions and transpired. Yes, sir. How are we doing on time? You good to talk for a little bit longer? Like I, I know you, you have some meeting coming up, it's funny. It's actually about, and so the call I have, well, it's a, it's a Twitter space I'm doing oh, nice. My buddy. I was telling you about and some other big art creators, some artists and collectors. So he basically set it up. It's a way for me to ask questions to them being a new, a newcomer to the space, like how they navigated it, all these things. And it's a public thing. So anyone could listen, but a way to give value and help other people who are new to learn how to navigate it better. So I'm stoked. There's like four of the artists who are real dope. I think three. Almost all of them are photographers. One does some videography as well. But yeah, I'm super stoked to like chop it up with them and, hear more about their journey and their process and how long they've been in this space and being able to get to the point that they're at. So then we don't. Hell yeah, man. So I like to ask like, philosophical questions like this sometimes, like w what do you think the meaning of life is I think it's just to understand what brings you fulfillment, joy and inspiration, and just hold onto that and do that always. It's just, you want to be fulfilled. You want to be happy. You want to be challenged. And I think someone had people like, just think about what they want to do and. Oh, that'd be so cool if I could try this and that. And it's not always that easy, but I think you really have to push and, and stand up for the things that make you happy and make you feel alive and do that more frequently. And that typically blossoms into something even better than you can imagine as beautiful man. Yes, sir. Thank you for that question. I know I threw a curve ball at you dude after the half of the NMT talk. what has helped you find fulfillment? What specifically maybe makes you the most fulfilled? Is it music? Is it the digital art and then is there some general advice on, on how people can discover or, or become fulfilled in life? Yeah, for sure. The biggest thing was having. Not being able to play sports and having to kind of redefine my identity is you have to reestablish your confidence in yourself. And it's something I feel like I'm always working on trying to get better at more confident in who I am. But I spent a year like actually doing, like reading a lot of books doing a lot of things that got me out of my comfort zone to help rebuild my confidence in a new space. So once you understand who you are and like what you can bring and being okay with your flaws, your, your strengths, I think it really helps you navigate forward and like anything. And I think that's my biggest piece of advice is just like, understand yourself, better, like learn to love yourself. And that's gonna pull you towards people who navigate. This life similarly, that will then enhance that self-love and confidence you have in yourself. And it's just kind of a snowball effect. I noticed when I wasn't in a good head space, I was doing things that weren't necessarily productive or good for my wellbeing. And you got to have some fun sometimes, you know, you gotta like go party with friends and do this here and there. But If you understand, okay, these, these actions are making me happy. They're not good for me. If you really take the time to work on yourself, get better. And then it's going to build a competency. You it's going to push you towards the right people and it's going to help you get closer to what you actually want to do. So that was the biggest thing for me. It was just like reestablishing confidence, love for myself and. That also just brings happiness and then it helps you navigate different scenarios, different problems, different excitements and feats defeats so much better. Yeah, man, I feel like confidence is so underrated these days. I feel like people like to shit on people who are maybe narcissistic or like obsessed with themselves. But I feel like just having an unrelenting passion for yourself, your life, what you're doing, just absolutely obsessed with this art project of your own existence, you know? The perfect way to actually inspire other people. And like you were saying, attract the type of people into your life that you need and that need you, and that can boost each other up. But, you know, there's something that goes wrong when you put your obsession into other people, right? If you pick a celebrity or even like your significant other or your best friend, and you're just like, that person is so awesome, that person is so awesome. You know? Yeah. Maybe you're not as selfish if you do that, but it messes the whole equation up for some reason. But if you're just absolutely in love with yourself, just, just so passionate about your life, what your doing, like you said, then. You attract all these people that are on the same vibe as you, and then you end up, you know, doing, I think more good for people than if you put your obsession into other people. I don't know. There's, there's something that happened to me when it's like, I went through this chain of like, I love this app. I love what I'm doing. I need to market it. I, you know, I need to, to start connecting with people. I got on the podcast and now like through this love for myself and love for what I'm doing, you know? And then once I started doing the podcast, I realized the best way to do this is to, to to bring other people up to, to put other people on a pedestal. You know what I'm saying? Instead of just like talking about my app the whole time. Cause you know, that's what makes for a better podcast, but it all started from this moment of like me wanting my dream to succeed. And then now I'm like stumbled into this place where I. I'm being inspired by other people. I'm helping promote other people bringing them up, but I didn't do it through like my, my obsession with other people. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. No. And that's like a really interesting and like insightful point, like putting your energy into yourself, you think you're being selfless by just focusing on how much you love someone else or how cool you think this artist or celebrity is, but it's not, you're not going to have any progression and then you're not gonna know how to cert face certain situations. If you're just not in tune with where you're at and how you feel about yourself and then the smallest things can make you falter and do things out of character or feel some type of way that if you had that under control and had a better understanding of where you're at, you'd be able to navigate itself. Yeah, man. It's it's it seems like a good thing, but it's not the best thing when someone is like obsessed with you, right. Or like needs you, like when, when you have a person in your life that like loves you or is just like thinking about you all the time and, and is, is too focused on you, you know? And, and, you know, they, it, it, it can seem like a good thing, but then, you know, then you feel obligated in a S in a certain way to, to make like reserve, you know, what you're doing and keep them in mind. But if you have like someone in your life, that's just like, obsessed with what they're doing and they, you know, and then you're obsessed with what you're doing. Those two passions link up in a way it's like, you guys don't need each other, you know? But, but all of a sudden, you know, you just vibe hard and like, it just completely, it's like exponential, like the, the amount of benefit you can get from each other, all of a sudden, because you don't have to worry about them. Cause, cause they're just, they're on their own path and they know their path and they know what they're doing in life and they they're just like, unrelentlessly just headed towards this goal and you can just, you can help push them. You know what I'm saying? But you don't have to be too, you know, did you, you get what I'm saying? I totally agree. And if someone is like, say it's more of a one-sided thing where someone's like really dependent on you, it's like it's unfair to them because they're putting too much expectation onto you. And which then will make you like, be like, oh, I got to cater to this more and same say it's from my perspective. Or it's like, I am not super happy with where I'm at, but this person brings me so much joy and then you're instilling expectation on them. That's like, not really fair, like justified. So then if something happens with you guys, you're just devastated and broken and you have to be able to work independently and, and feel strong and happy and confident and love yourself without that from someone else. Like, and this goes just to more of a basic point. When I stopped expecting some much from other people, like even when I would like put out. It's like, don't expect anyone to listen to. It don't expect anyone to like share it or like blasted and make it go bigger. Or when you put out a piece or drop NFT, like you can't expect anyone to like buy it right off the rip, like, okay. So, but the more I work, the harder I try and push that or connect with people, the more likely it is that those things will happen. So I realized, oh, that comes back to me. Everything comes back to me. that's why I was just like, I got to get my confidence in check. I gotta get my understanding of myself in check. And that's really been the biggest thing and has allowed me to move forward. The most is the more in-tune I get with myself, the more positive things happen. And the more I'm connected with people who are on the same. Yeah, man. I was thinking about like enjoyment and joy and, you know, expectation, but you're right. It's that responsibility. People who put full responsibility on themselves to make their dreams happy, like are happen. Those are the people that are easiest to help or easiest to, you know to, to vibe with, because it's all on them, right? They're not gonna blame anything in the whole world for their failures except for themselves. And that's, those are the best people to be around. I feel like, you know, I agree. And just a quick, like specific, I know you got to go, but I'm out of your whole story, right? I think the guy that you're making music with, the guy who you've made four or five songs with, it seems like the best example of like this guy seems like he's really changing your life right now. Right. But you could have never connected with him until you became this level of dedicated to your music. Right. if you met this guy near the beginning of your journey, he wouldn't want anything to do with you and you would not, you know what I'm saying? Like, but, but now that you're at this place, you know, he's, you said he's been like doing this for 20 years, you know, now that you've been doing it for like, you know, seven years, you're finally at a place where someone like that sees the value in you and you guys can propel each other, you know, like that's, I feel like that's an example. That is an example. And it was a realization of like, you know, when you're in the. Maybe you experienced this with like creating the app and, and the podcast even where you're like, I'm here, but I want, I want to be so much bigger. I want to be doing this. So for music, I was like, well, I'm doing this show. I want to be playing on these stages. I want to be opening up for these artists and then flash forward for like making music with this guy. Like, let's say five years ago, I'm like, oh, I want to work with that producer. He's so dope. And I think he'd really liked my music looking back now. I'm like, I was not ready for those opportunities. Then cause you're so locked into it. You're like, oh, I'm confident. I think I could, like, I could show up and do what I need to do, but you're right. I was not ready for that then. And nor was I developed personally or musically enough to be able to like function at that level with people who have been doing it for so long, but it's been so great. Cause he's, he's been in a bunch of different bands, like different jobs. Play different instruments he grew up, he loves golden era, hip hop, like nineties hip hop. So it's been so dope cause that's what got me into, it was like 90 sip hop, like just my love for hip hop there's I love that era. So it's cool to be able to have this hybrid of he's been in multiple bands, bunch of different genres, plus he loves hip hop nineties and just the type of sound we're creating just feels unique and it feels right. So it feels kind of full circle in a weird way. but yeah, it's, it's beautiful. And we've released four or five songs, but we have like nine or almost 10 songs created. So we were just keeping it. Hell. Yeah, man. I got to check some of these. Some of them are out already. Yeah. I'll shoot you the link. Okay. Hell yeah. I'll check it out. Well we're, we're going to wrap up soon. Like you said, you got to get off, but we have to do this again, man, because. I like, like, there's a certain level of, of when the, when I have a guest who hasn't been on before, where like we have to dig into the specifics of you make music, you make art you're into NFTs. Like it's very important to get like a groundwork of who you are. But I feel like you just got to feel for like the last like 20 minutes is like, once I establish with my audience, like who a guest is then, I feel like I, cause I know who you are. Right. But I feel like we've established like an understanding on a podcast. That's when, like I can like really get into the pocket with someone and just start talking about life and like all these ideas start flowing and now we can pick out, you know, like that conversation wouldn't have meant anything or it wouldn't have meant as much as if I didn't have like that example to pull from and, you know, things like that. So I feel like you gotta come back on at some point, man, and would just get in the pocket like this for two hours, because I don't know, dude. I have all, I always love talking to you, man. And I've loved talking to you today, man. I just like, we just always flow and yeah. Especially with my guests lately, I've just, you know, like you were saying, sometimes I want like a famous person to be a guest. You can't help, but to want that, but I've, I've realized I just need to gravitate towards those people that I can just flow with. I just have naturally cool conversations with, and, and you're definitely one of those people juice did. I appreciate that man. Seriously. And I feel the same way and just, yeah, it was the same back when we were at uh, in Fairfax chopping it up, you know, it's just like that. Energy's there, you've radiated a good energy and I think that's gonna, you have a way to bring it out to people too. So it's like, even if the person isn't necessarily on your wavelength, like there's just something about you ask good questions. I'd be honored to come back on, man. For real. Yeah. We can chop it up and get a little more in-depth on certain things and yeah, cause even for me, sometimes when people ask like, oh, what are you. I'm like, well, I rap, I make art. It's like, there's a lot of different realms. So it's like we could kind of pinpoint some things and really like focus on those. Or do you want me to talk about those things? We didn't talk about life and shit. So, you know, I'm getting, yeah, man. I mean you and most people are very multi-dimensional right. There's not one, one thing. You can put a label on it. Rapper and digital artists. They, those, those don't even those don't even do a justice, probably what you're doing on a, on a regular basis. Exactly. All right. Well, thank you, man. This was awesome.
