The Drive Program

James Driver: Teaching in China & Military School | #46

• Tom Driver

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James is Tom's younger brother. In 2019 he moved to China where he taught kids how to speak English. They discuss his experience living in China and he tells the story of how he was put in jail and then deported from the country for teaching English. He also attended military school as a teenager which they discuss as well.

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Tom

So James, why don't you go ahead and tell us like the first thing that happened as far as you ever hearing about the idea of you living in China, like from there, and then bring me through all the way The prequel and the sequel, I got you. Yeah.

James

Uh so basically how it started is um I I used to live with uh dad and Hong, right? And you know, I was taking like a leap year or two, and I just was kind of drunk one day and walked downstairs for you know a quick snack and I was going back to my room and Hong was like Would you ever want to teach in China? I was just like, Yeah, you know, I was drunk, I was like, yeah, like like that's never gonna happen. And then one day, you know, I'm getting a passport. Next day I'm on a plane going to China, and then next thing you know, I got a room in China. I'm I'm teaching English for nine months. And then um Okay, well let's back up.

Tom

What town are you in?

James

I think you pronounce it Heng Shui.

Tom

Hang Shui?

James

Something like that, yeah.

Tom

And it was near a bigger town, right?

James

Like it was uh two month two-hour drive away from Wuhan.

Tom

Wuhan. Okay. That's actually the place where the the virus came from, right? Yes. You were two hours from there. Yep. That's wild, dude.

James

We'll get into that later. So so yeah, I'm I'm teaching this job. It's been like nine months, and then I actually went and got mom a gift for Christmas the same day, like during my lunch break, and then I come back, I start teaching a class halfway through that class, four undercover costs bust through the classroom door. Whoa. Yeah. So I was a hundred percent not ready for it. I just bought a gift for my mom. Like, I was not in that zone. Yeah, my zone was hey, like, can you let me my finish my class first? But you know, they can understand me. I can understand them. I'd like to tell my assistants to say that shit, like, I don't know what's happening here. They yell at me in a different language, um, can we do this after class so I don't look like a murderer in front of these students? Like, but no, no, they forced me out of there, and then they forced me, uh forced to bring me to to my um crib, then they f forced me to let them inside, and then they get my passport, and then they bring me to the police station. And then I'm I'm there waiting outside the police station handcuffs for like five minutes, and then three other foreign teachers with a school that we were partnering with gets brought. Uh this dude from white dude from Africa, this um this seven-foot white dude from uh Siberia, and then one dude from Madagascar. And basically we get investigated all night until like 2 a.m. And then they tell us leave, go home, like I I thought I thought you had like pack a little up, you know, um, and come back and we'll finish the investigation in the morning. So of course that night, you know, we all we we all went out and had a fucking beer or two because we were like, what the fuck just happened, you know? And then we go over the next day and um basically halfway through us being investigated some more, our our bosses kinda were like, hey, so um what's probably about to happen is two of you are gonna go to jail like as collateral. Like they said that. I make an like they said that out loud. Like um, and and then of course, being American, I was one of them, and the European from Siberia, I I think he was European. Either way, um was the other guy. He was like a fucking bodyguard, seven feet jacked, so I I wasn't s totally terrified. You know what I mean? Um, and basically, we get taken to jail in one of those classic police cars. The best thing about it, like five minutes before the police car pulled in while we were outside, it started like pouring down rain. Like a fucking movie. Um and we look at each other like to tell me this ain't some movie shit. Um gotta have com uh comedy in the darkest of moments. But um we we get taken to the Chinese jail, we get taken in, they take take our mugshots basically. And in this whole building, every room, every hallway, you know like how the floors look in um an unfinished basement? That's how the whole place looks. It's a whole unfinished jail, like and we get in a room, there's like they bring us to a room, and uh there's like eight, ten other dudes, and you know, we're we're white. We're we're in a city where like there's literally no other white people. Uh the only other white person I've seen is the person I went to the jail with uh for nine months. So they're looking at us like a foreign snack, you know what I mean? Crazy eyes, tattoos all over the place, and and we're in there for about 12 hours. We we sleep a little that night, and then at this place you got smoke breaks, right? And one of these the cops, one of the guards that controls one of or two of the rooms, uh gained a liking to us and brought us to his room. And this room was like the worst room in in the jail. Like with one dude, his whole entire back was burnt. Like, red, the whole thing. Everyone else had like face tattoos, just look crazy as shit. And after we get put in that room, we have a smoke break, and uh during that smoke break, everyone just smoking cigarettes. People off and on are going to talk to their visitors. I end up having a visitor. But when we get back to the room, so we take buckets from our room and use them when we go to the smoke break, and we use them off for seats. And what what these motherfuckers do during uh their smoke break is they'll slowly and slowly be sneaking cigarettes. One will sneak a lighter, so by the time they get back, they got like two packs of cigarettes in the room, and there's cameras on the room, right? Everywhere except for while you're shitting. So what they would do, and in China they got the squatting toilet. So they would go to the toilet, squat down, pull on their pants, just smoke a cigarette. Jesus. Yeah. That's wild. It was pretty wild. And then that night passes by, and like I'm bad, I'm drifting off, I'm about to go to sleep, and all of a sudden, uh the main uh the guard for our room knocks on the door and tells us we're moving. And we start walking, and then I see the boss that we partnered with, and I was like, what the fuck is going on? Uh and he's he said, I don't know. And I was just like, Okay, uh, this is gonna be fun. I can tell. Uh, because I just thought at first they're moving us to another room for some fucking reason. They're just fucking with us, they're gonna move us like every fucking day because we're the American and the European, you know. Uh uh. But nah, they were taking us out, and so what had happened is our school and the school that we were partnering with ended up paying the police $80,000 in American money to let all the foreign teachers go back to their countries. Um But we didn't know that yet. All we knew is we were leaving with the police and going to a hotel, and at this hotel they split up me and uh the European dude, and we both had one with our bosses in each room and two cops in each room for the whole night. And even like while I'm trying to sleep, like uh every time I open my eyes, I see smoke in my face because the Chinese cops were smoking the whole time, just sitting in the room, like two feet away from the bed, you know, the whole time, just smoking cigarettes. Every time I open my eyes, smoke in my face, you know. And then the next day, uh we are told go back to your crib, go go get all your shit, and basically you gotta leave soon. Um they bring us to this place where basically they delete all records of us ever being arrested in China, ever being at the jail in China, and put both put a stamp on both of our passports saying you got basically two uh two days to get out of China before that that jail is permanent. And so we both ordered plane rides, and then that night we both stay at the same hotel, and like the cops knew where we were, like they were posted, you know, like at the bottom of the hotel, they were posted the whole night there to make sure that we didn't leave. Like, and at one point, um this this old Chinese cop, and like clearly like a newbie, a rookie, shows up, and this this cop got like a shotgun on his waist. Like, he just and he's he's touching it while walking and talking to us in our room, like please, like scary. Let me use this, do something. Like that was the vibe I had. Uh yeah. And of course, we're just like, nah, we just we're just gonna order food and go sleep, you know what I'm saying? Uh we were gonna order drinks with that food, but after that we were like, nah, let's just order food. Um we and me and the European dude ended up watching uh Bert Chrysler's I'm the machine that night. Oh while while like eating. Dude was a cool dude. I just started getting known before this happened, but uh we just chilled, watched I'm I'm the machine and ate some McDonald's or some shit. The next day, right, the cops show up to escort us all the way to the airport. So I was like in the back of a cop car for two hours going to the airport. Um and so his flight, the European dude's flight, was a lot earlier than mine. So they get him in, and that's good. And then the airport's like, nah, I can't, I can't let him go in. It's way too early for his flight. And the cops were like, nah, you're fucking letting him in. Like, you're letting him in. Um and then they force the airport to let me go in like four or five hours early. And but then they're like, but we need we need his passport, we need to hold on to it for some I don't I don't know what the reason was, but I was just like, as long as I'm out of these cops' face, I don't care. Um and then I go to turmoil and I wait, and like people are starting to board, and I don't have my passport back yet. And I later go up to them, be like, hey, uh the front desk took my passport. I need one of y'all to go get that shit. Like, I need to be on this fight. Um, and then like literally last like like 30 seconds before they're about to close that door to the plane, dude came back with my passport. I was just like, Lord, damn, don't play.

Tom

Uh it was it was nerve-wracking there. So I was kind of curious too more about like um the buildup. Like, I I want to hear more about what it was like to teach in China, actually. Like, you told me the teaching part was great, the rest was ass. But tell me what you liked about the teaching part. Like, tell me about me.

James

Well, I I I loved I loved teaching. Um I feel feel like I'm helping a little when I'm teaching.

Tom

But not just teaching in general, like what was it like to be the one white person in this entire town in China? Like, what was it like to be right? Didn't you say you felt like a celebrity or something?

James

Uh I don't know if celebrity is the right word. Um, it depends on who was looking at me. Kids, kids looked at you like Mickey Mouse, like a fantasy character, you know. Because everyone's there like I would I would just be on my lunch break, uh, going into the mall, getting a bite to eat, sitting down, and like more than once I would I would have like Asian kids just just circling my table.

Tom

Doing what?

James

Just just running around me, just grunting you? No, just giggling? Yeah, really?

Tom

Singing a song?

James

Not seeing a song, just running around.

Tom

Sacrificing you to the devil? What are they doing?

James

No, just just running around the table. I don't I don't I don't know what they're saying. Um I don't know. And like I'd get it I'd get a lot of bad looks like on my way to work. Like every time.

Tom

But uh I'm I'm the outsider. What was the poverty like in China? A lot of homeless people?

James

Yeah, I walked out. I walked past a good 40, 50 homeless people on my way to work every day.

Tom

And you gotta be a good target on your back as far as Yeah.

James

Oh, no, I was always ready. Yeah. No, you had to always be ready in a circumstance like that. What's it like to be in a country you don't know the language at all? It's hard. How'd you get around? How'd you find it? Um I I always had an app on my phone, basically, that translates anything if like there's any problems. The only really word I need to know was thank you. I don't know if I'm pronouncing this right, but it's uh shay shay. I'm probably pronouncing it wrong, but uh that's thank you. Okay. And I'll just say that anytime I I would point out a menu to order food and say that that's it. Uh all I could really do. So if there wasn't a picture, I couldn't order it.

Tom

What was it like to teach Chinese kids specifically? Like, not just teaching, but you said that you got very close with these kids and like even the parents would ask you to name them in English sometimes, right?

James

Oh tell me about this connection and no yeah, uh no, that's just crazy. Um The fact that like they would actually ask me to give them like an American name. And I I would usually just be like, okay, what does their name mean? In Chinese Chinese China, um, and I take that meaning and just add a syllable or two to it. Like, I named one Tanya. I forget what the meaning was, but because of it, the name was Tanya. Okay. You know. Name one Tom.

Tom

Dancy named some kid after me?

James

Uh no. You're Tommy. Okay. Yeah, I mean Tom is.

Tom

Yeah.

James

Uh. My favorite, my favorite student was this this dude, Leon. Man was a savage. He gave off pimp pimpish vibes at like eight. Um, but there's this one time, like mid-class, and we were doing like a fun class for some reason. I was teaching a class with uh the art teacher who knows no English. Um it's I usually got two uh one of two assistants in the room who speak English and Chinese pretty well. But for some reason we're doing something fun. I was doing it with the art teacher, and this 12-year-old girl literally takes out a blade and just starts cutting herself in the middle of class. I'm trying to get him to understand, like, stop that shit, but he doesn't see it, doesn't understand what I'm saying, and it was just a whole thing, you know. Oh my gosh. That was probably one of the hardest things I had to deal with. Because I gotta stop something, but no one knows what I'm saying. Except for the students, because the students speak more English than that teacher. And the teacher's looking at me like, what, what? I literally had to be like, bro, look at that shit. Like, when he understood, he was like, oh, fuck. Like, and and he ran over there immediately and stopped her. Like, and so I can't I can't be the American in China grabbing her arms and forcing her to. That just doesn't look good. Uh just running over there and doesn't look good.

Tom

So did you go help? Did you get her help though?

James

Yeah, yeah. When the our teacher saw he finally did something as one of the other teachers, so all the classes were on camera so that the parents could just chill downstairs and watch the whole time. And uh so one of I'm guessing one of the teachers noticed it before he did and started running up because she was in there, like, as he was trying to stop it. No, but that that that was a pretty wild day. What about like especially because like I that did that when I was in high school, and I regretted it uh every day, just cause scars. Uh so it was weird having to stop it as a teacher. And like seeing it from so like, yeah. Some other person. But someone that did it like eight years younger than I did, she was like 12. 12. If your life is so bad that you're cutting yourself a 12, that's that's dark. It's dark. What about like what are the differences? Only thing I worried about when I was twelve is try not to embarrass myself in front of girls doing laundry and maybe playing sports.

Tom

Yeah. Oh yeah.

James

World's different everywhere. Shit was crazy.

Tom

So what are like the biggest differences between China and America of just the color of the sky is not blue ever in China.

James

It's always gray.

Tom

Why?

James

You don't you don't know you miss that until you're there long enough. Second you come back, you can actually like smell fresh air and you see a blue sky.

Tom

Is there so much pollution?

James

Or I don't I don't know, but I'll take it this far. One time I literally asked four students, hey, what's what's the color of the sky? Without any hesitation, they all said gray. So yeah, the sky's always gray over there.

Tom

What about the story of your kids um they tackled you one day?

James

Oh yeah. Um, no, like all my students one day ganged up on me and tackled me. I was just like, Jesus Christ, what is happening right now?

Tom

Are you little Asian kids just tackling God's love?

James

I forget why, but we were doing like some like special like event or something. I forget.

Tom

Well you said I feel like you told me once that made you like emotional, like it made you really.

James

No, yeah, like I don't know, man. I I wasn't like completely teaching, it was just kind of I was teaching, but like I don't know. They're kind of like kids to me, you know.

Tom

It's like kind of babysitting too. It's kind of just yeah being like an entertainment.

James

I don't know I kinda got close to them, and the last thing they saw was me being walked out of handcuffs, mid-class.

Tom

What about um some of these families that you made friends with, like at the convenience store and stuff? Like talk about the friends or the acquaintances you had Oh yeah, no.

James

Um I got close to a family at the convenience store next to uh where I live. And and I would go in there all the time for dinner and just drink with them, eat dinner with them.

Tom

What's a Chinese dinner like?

James

Uh Everything in the middle. Um crock pot, you know. Um spicy. I don't know, it was really good. It's always better food in America? Better food for sure. Uh 100%. And also food that doesn't make you fatter every day, for sure, for sure. Um, the first four months I I I was eating the same amount I was eating in America and China, but I I I lost 40 pounds. Damn. Just by eating their food. So yeah. Their food tastes good as shit. And it's way less fatty than like like a motherfucker.

Tom

Uh dude, American food is so bad. Like there's so much ingredients, like the same exact thing in in a different country will have way less ingredients.

James

Plus a couple pounds of grease.

Tom

Well would you go back?

James

Yeah, if I had all the right paperwork.

Tom

You would go back and teach that?

James

Uh I don't know, man. Um It ain't really worth the risk. I make more now than when I was in China. But were you happier there? I did really enjoy it. It's just it's just not worth the risk. But if there's not a risk of like getting deported, there there's always a risk being a foreigner in any country. It doesn't matter.

Tom

Yeah, what's up with that?

James

So like you might have all the right paperwork, but you can still get in trouble. This could happen, that could happen.

Tom

What do you think about the Chinese government?

James

Are they good or bad? Are they evil or are they just it's like a gray area? I don't know. I don't know if it's a gray area. I think it's more of a dark area, but why? I don't know, man. Um government controls people 100%.

Tom

In what ways did you experience government control there? You couldn't use certain websites, right? You couldn't use certain website.

James

Yeah, no, yeah, you had to like, I don't know, buy a proxy to make make it so it's like you're using it from somewhere else so that you I can even go on YouTube.

Tom

Basically, like from what I can tell, the Chinese people are not as free as we are. We have more freedoms over here. Is there any other ways that you experience it?

James

They're definitely more united though.

Tom

Yeah, but that's they're more united because they're more brainwashed under the same propaganda.

James

I wouldn't say brainwashed, I would say just fear.

Tom

So the people there fear the government. You can feel that. When you talk to somebody.

James

Well, I I want to say it never really came up while I was there, but you know, it's clear.

Tom

It's clear that people are gonna be.

James

Oh, there's so many homeless people in China. I mean, it's ridiculous.

Tom

Do you think their system's gonna be better than ours in the long run? Are they gonna be able to be more successful in the United States?

James

They do control basically everything.

Tom

Because their government is kind of in business with the businesses in a they kind of have their hands in control so they can fund things way faster, they can do so.

James

I think they understand that they don't need to own everything to control everything. How so? Because they already control everything. But they haven't started wars with Russia or America. It's one of those things where it's like economics. Okay, they even if they were to win against us, they know that as America, we will say fuck it and bomb a motherfucker. Because that's that's American. Uh Americans say Americans shoot first, ask questions later.

Tom

But basically they can still control the world through economic powers uh without they don't need to own everything, they control everything.

James

Because they basically already control everything. At least 95%. At least 95% of all products. Everything's made in China.

Tom

Do they work harder over there too? Like all the all the kids just study all day and they like do play violin at night and they just like do a a bunch of like I feel like they are just not not all of them, but it's it's it's a competition. If you ain't amazing, you're like with when your par when the parents were having you teach them, do they really care? Like, hey man, I kid okay, like on English real fast.

James

I'll even put it this way. Um, having a better English accent is like a competition in China. The better accent you have in English, the more far you'll go.

Tom

And they all really care about that.

James

Yeah, see, I I wasn't a main school, I was a secondary school where the main focus was making sure they had a really good accent. That's why they wanted an American to do the teaching.

Tom

Oh, that's cool. So how did you grow as a person through all this?

James

Like, what was um now you're back home and it was like it was the first time in Since I I was like in ninth or tenth grade where I wasn't drunk or high. I I I my personality kinda over time just became the stoner. We we we smoke weed every day, party of life, you know? And it just kinda became a who I was. And then I went to China, I stopped drinking, I stopped smoking for like nine months basically. So I had to kinda like figure out who I was when I was there. It forced me to think who about who I wanted to be and who and who I am.

Tom

So while you're sobered up? Life in life. So while you're sobered up over there, forced to think about who you are and what you want to do.

James

Yeah, for like the first time since like sixth grade.

Tom

So what what are your what was your conclusion? Who are you? What is your purpose? What was that? What was the conclusion that you came to?

James

I want to help in any way I can, but to do that I need lots of money.

Tom

To get rich then.

James

Yeah. Gotta get rich to help.

Tom

So this is the kind of question I like to ask. What are you most passionate about? I know it's uh f hip hop sometimes, it's stand-up sometimes. What are you the most passionate about in life?

James

Making a stamp on the world. Okay. I don't want to be forgotten.

Tom

So you want to be remembered? You wanna be infamous?

James

I guess you could say that, yeah. You know, like no one wants to die without having even like a mini stamp on the world. Mm-hmm. You know? Even if it's just having kids and grandkids, at least they will remember you, you know? Yeah. Got a stamp. No one wants to be that single guy that never did anything with his life, just living in some shitty ass gutter and dying all alone, you know?

Tom

Yeah. So do you want to um make a positive stamp on the world or just a stamp on the right?

James

Well of course, a positive stamp, but you know. Sh shit happens sometimes. Uh and so what sometimes you gotta be ugly to make good things happen later on. Ugly? Ugly, you know, just moving in certain ways that aren't aren't always liked, you know, could be frowned upon. Like, alright, let me put it this way, uh, I half of the rappers that are making music now were plugging to make their money so that they could go in the studio and make their music that blew them up. Yeah. Some of them were crack dealers, some of them were coke dealers, some of them were weed dealers. But it helped them get enough money to get started.

Tom

So essentially you want to make a positive impact overall, but the means to get there might not always be the best. The most ethical, but that doesn't matter. Correct. Yeah, I agree, man. Sometimes like sometimes you gotta be ugly. Like when it comes to my gym, I think I just need to make a lot of money and then it'll happen for sure.

James

Yeah.

Tom

And I'm really open to any way of getting there. You know what I'm saying? Like, if I can start a second company and then sell it or do whatever it takes, work two or three jobs, whatever it needs, whatever I need to do to get to that, I feel like we'll be worth it if I can make a positive influence on the world once it's done.

James

No, I agree. I agree. I I try to live my life in a way, by the time I'm done, I'm gonna help out at least a little bit.

Tom

What about the rapping versus stand-up? These are two avenues you've talked about pursuing. How are you feeling on each of them right now in this moment, and how what is your guess history with these two hobbies?

James

Um I just have a certain flow for both of them. I've always loved music. I even way back in the day, like you know, I always wanted to just say fucking go to American Idol, but you know, things happened beforehand, got me distracted. You know.

Tom

So you wanted to be a singer when you were a kid?

James

Yeah. But then, you know, I got into other things, you know, from military school, this, that, that, this, just got distracted. And then I s I started eventually getting into rap music. And I started freestyling way back in the day just because one time I was getting high with some homies that they were like, let's freestyle. And I was like, fuck it. And then we just started doing it a lot. And a lot of times when you're smoking with homies in high school, you just rambling into freestyling. Um and eventually one of my homies were like, maybe she'd like record sometime, and I forgot about that for a while. And then I tried to do it a little bit when I was like 1920, but I didn't have any good equipment. I just had deleted all those videos. And then I just started freestyling, and um, and same, I I and then eventually I was like, I freestyle so much, why don't I just why not just click record on my phone? And then start recording freestyles. And um I ain't gonna lie, like 80% of them are trash, but the 20% that are good, I'm slowly turning into songs, adding to them, adding backgrounds to them, and I'm gonna get beats for them. But I'm slowly going through the sea and finding the few gems that are in there, you know? Yeah, so most of it's trash. I ain't even gonna lie. Most of it's trash and shit. But but the ones that are good are just beautiful.

Tom

So from my perspective, it looks like you've been just putting a beat on some speakers, taking your phone out, recording basically like a TikTok like 30-minute.

James

Can I tell you something real quick though? Um, half or mostly the main reason I post so much on there is because I got not much space on my phone. So if I post them and delete them my phone, it's kind of just like I'm keeping it on my phone, but not on my phone. Oh that's true.

Tom

Gotta keep deleting shit to make shit. Uh well that's good. I mean, that the style of that platform is to just like overproduce content and just keep it rolling all the time because they might show it to different people each time you post it. No, yeah. And you repost stuff all the time. But so wait, you I didn't finish my thought, which was from my perspective, you've been posting like on average, like three free styles a day for like two or three.

James

For like, yeah, for like the first two years, I was posting like I started just doing like one a day, and then also back back in the day when I started, you were only allowed to post what ten second, fifteen second video max, and then eventually they allowed one minute, now they allow ten.

Tom

Um so I would say that like for someone who wants to try to rap, comparatively, this is success. Like you are building the habit up of posting and recording yourself rapping every day. You're yeah, even if you're not making like finished songs that are ready to go to Spotify, like you're getting better, you're getting practice, and you're getting your reps in. And so, like, what advice would you give to someone who wants to just get started? Like, how do you start a habit where I want to code one hour a day? Now all of a sudden I want to code three hours a day, you know? Someone uh like Jonathan who wants to start.

James

Whatever you're doing, do it every day for five years, and then after five years you might be amazing at it.

Tom

No, but how do you get started?

James

You just keep doing it.

Tom

But like, what mentality do you have to have to go from someone who never posts rap music online to posts all the time?

James

Like grow balls and say, I don't give a fuck what they say. Okay, so does that help? Keep practicing. I d I didn't start posting freestyles until I was already a freestyler for a good four to five years. And even then at the beginning I was still trash.

Tom

What's like what's up with the not giving a fuck mentality? Is that something that is a big part of your life?

James

If you care about what other people think of you, then you weren't gonna make it in this life to begin with. Okay. If if you're the type of guy that you can get a hundred likes and a hundred people fucking with your shit and you're in a really good mood, and then one person hates it and it completely kills your vibe, you're a pussy.

Tom

Uh okay, so my question is did you uh did you always not give a fuck? Or was there a point in your life where you did give a f you cared what people thought, and then you changed, and like what point was that?

James

Um probably starts with the divorce. Okay. You know, I mean you guys uh you you know how it was before a divorce. Um our parents sheltered us to the point where we didn't really know fucking anything. Like at all. All I knew was church Maundri, girls that I'm too shy to talk to, you know, and when the divorce happened, it just opened our eyes to things that, you know, were easily hidden. Because back in the day, internet was still getting started up, you know, I I we still had flip phones. If there was a smartphone, we were on the first one. And since then it's been more easily accessed. Like a six-year-old can go look up anything if they if they wanted to. Um but back in the day we just had to, you know, listen to what they told us. So we were when we were young enough to not travel yet.

Tom

So we were sheltered in a way that is impossible today, like basically what you're saying.

James

And what's and what's so cool about living in my generation though, if I'll take a step back real quick, is we got to experience both childhood without internet and with internet. Mm-hmm. Because we we grew up in at first in the era where like you had to go on the computer, get on the internet, it it wasn't on your phone. You shared one with the whole family. Yeah. To seeing all these smartphones and all this shit come out. Around when I was it started around when I was in like second grade to like sixth grade, probably.

Tom

Yeah. When I when I was in sixth grade is when people started getting the iPhone 1 generation. Yeah. Seventh grade, maybe people.

James

So I was in fourth grade.

Tom

It would be like three or four kids in the class would get it, and then oh my god. And then then they came out the iPod iPod Touch. And then like ten other kids would get it.

James

Yeah, I remember when I was in sixth grade, I was using the iPod that you had, which was like the first iPod ever, like that thick ass motherfucking thing.

Tom

And then I got it. You got one of the thick ass green iPod.

James

Thick-ass free iPod, bruh.

Tom

I got it after him. Those things were dude. I was obsessed with Steve Jobs at that time, dude, and Apple. I was like, oh my god, like because I had a CD player like when I was younger. Like, I had to.

James

Me too, I remember.

Tom

Fucking shitty ass CD player, you'd run around, they would like skip.

James

I had a phone connected to the wall by wire.

Tom

And then I remember when Jessica Taylor got her first iPod. Oh my gosh. Like, I went over to her house and I downloaded like 300 of her songs onto mine, like when I got one. She had already a huge library. Then immediately I can just hear all of these crazy I I discovered MM for the first time. I discovered all these bands. I'm just like, whoa, what the fuck, bro? Especially discovering Eminem. As a young white kid discovering Eminem, that's crazy.

James

Remember, remember you're just like remember back in the day on iTunes and ha how you would go on YouTube and download the MP3. Yeah. So you could download those songs onto your iTunes, aka into your phone for free.

Tom

And you know, something that we experienced that is just kind of done now is the mixtape era for Hitler. Yeah, for real. Like, people would drop free mixtapes different than albums, and you would go download it on batpiff.com, and it would be like this crazy cool experience. And now, like, the mixtape is just kind of gone to streaming, and streaming mixtapes are not they're just basically albums, and it's like there's this whole genre of the mixtape that kind of has gotten lost with the new streaming era, you know?

James

For sure.

Tom

Like with Khalifa, Mac Miller, like all these little Wayne mixtapes in the early 2000s, or even the late 2000s, just a whole different fucking vibe, bro. I agree. I miss that shit. No, yeah. But yo, one thing I wanted to ask you about is military school. We kinda touched on it, so like, why'd you have to go to military school? Tell me the story of that.

James

Um so basically, I'll just I'll just start it from mom and dad. Uh, to tell you that story, I gotta tell you the other story. Uh basically, three years after mom and dad got divorced, I found out from a random girl in the middle of my science class that my my dad, she had my mom, and she said it like you know that, don't you? And like, you know, I was in shock. I was just I just kind of fucking walked out the room. I was just like, mmm, ain't doing that right now. And then I walked home, you know, I yelled at mom. I was like, the fuck is this true? And she was like, talk to your dad, I ain't saying shit. Um, so I did, I went out to lunch with him, talked to him about it, and he just kind of gave me the and that was three years ago. I'm just like, no one could have told me. Like, it's been three fucking years. I don't like finding these things out from a random bitch at school. Like, yeah, um, and I just didn't like all the secrets. It's one thing for them to be a problem. Let me know the problem is there so I don't embarrass my fucking self in public. Or or just tell me how to fucking common courtesy. Um, so I just I wasn't having the family shit. And I was like, Ma, you gotta send me to a boarding school. She was like, okay, I'll I'll send you to a military school. I was like, if that's what we have to do, then fuck it.

Tom

So you asked to be sent to a boarding school?

James

Yeah, I I I couldn't I I didn't want to live in the house. Uh I couldn't deal with their bullshit.

Tom

Uh so neither of them came up with this idea.

James

You kind of No, I I I I told him I I in that on that day I was just like, nah, I I I I'm not doing this anymore.

Tom

Uh I mean I didn't actually really know.

James

I kind of felt like You were in college.

Tom

Yeah, so that's probably why.

James

But I didn't I demanded it.

Tom

I kind of felt like they told you to go to military school.

James

No, I asked to go to a boarding school and they're like, if it's a military school.

Tom

Okay. I didn't know that. Okay.

James

So you Because they were like, okay, I I get you want a league because you can't stand us right now, but we're gonna shape you up and fix you. Yeah. Okay. So then this is a broad term when I'll get to that later.

Tom

But uh So you've just gone through a divorce. 12 years old, probably when the divorce happens, so you're probably fifteen.

James

Yeah, I was fifteen and so you're like a freshman in high school. Freshman, yeah.

Tom

And then so after your freshman year of high school, then you go to sophomore year in the military school?

James

No, so first they had me go to their summer school. So I I I I think I failed one of my classes in ninth grade or something. And I needed to go to summer school either way, so there are there's like Alright, let's test it up by going to the summer school. Now I do good in all my classes, but uh there's this one moment in the summer school where um, well there's just a couple moments, but there's this one moment where this one really big black dude was like, hey, tell that other black dude he's the N-word, but like he was saying, like, say, you know what I'm saying? Well, I'm gonna beat your ass. And it was either get my ass beat by this guy, or called the smaller one the word, who is also still bigger than me, though. I I don't know if you remember, I was all skin and bone back then, no muscle. Um and risk getting beat by the other guy. What which one did I want to risk? Um so I I called the dude the N-word. Um that motherfucker is gonna make me knock out. This motherfucker's gonna hurt me. Uh okay.

Tom

And so the other guy came out.

James

And then, you know, he got on my face, probably hit me once during that lunch, and that was that then there. And then later on in the summer school, right? I felt like being goofy. Too goofy. I was being white goofy. And uh the same dude, the same black dude, like we were cooler at this point, like, you know, but I just felt like slapping his shit out of his hand. Um, and I did, and he he literally looked at me like, You got three seconds to get the fuck out of my face. And you slept one out of his hands. All all his school shit. All of his like binders and yeah, like a little cunt. Um he said, like, you got you got a few seconds, get the fuck out of my face. And I was still laughing, and his boy looked at me like run. Like So I ran and I went to my room and I got ready for him to walk in, and you know. Um and my dumbass roommate. Oh my gosh. So this this dude walks in, right? He walks in, he he he's he's he's squaring up at me, and my dumbass roommate thinks it's a fucking joke. So his dumb ass, I don't know what I didn't I didn't fuck with this motherfucker the rest of the school after this. He took my hands behind my back while this motherfucker in front of me choked me for like two minutes straight. I I like almost passed out. Like my roommate was held in my hands behind my back while the dude that was coming after me choked me uh uh against the wall. Uh and then right before I was about to pass out, he let go, the roommate let go, and he said, uh why why you being stupid? I'll and and he walked away. And uh That was summer school, shit just got crazier after that. Um, like I said, I was really skinny back then, I was kind of depressed back then, and um I ended up getting this this Asian roommate, this roommate from Korea, and I guess his older brother would like hit him all the time in Korea, and his roommate before me got it even worse than me. His he used to be that motherfucker with a lock every night, like like like a like a metal lock for like a safe or something. He used to be uh the lad the last roommate with that every night. But but he regards was was beating me every night.

Tom

Um, you know, so hold on. Your roommate was beating you up every night?

James

Yeah.

Tom

Why?

James

Because, you know, I guess he just felt like he needed to take it out of someone because his older brother took it out on him all the time. So he would start punching you where in the arm, in the face, and I don't r really have all those memories, but I just remember getting hit a lot. All the time.

Tom

In the face?

James

Everywhere, man. Yeah, in the face, in the arm, chest.

Tom

Did he ever give you a reason for why he's doing this?

James

Uh I think low-key was trying to toughen me up, but but uh or he was just a psycho. I that's Did it toughen you up? Uh it it definitely toughened me up, but I d I I think he just really enjoyed hitting people.

Tom

Like, are you a better person today because you got hit or not?

James

I'm I give a fuck less. Definitely because of that. It that's one of the main things that make me not give a fuck. Like, you know what I mean? Um and then eventually I got a different roommate, and this roommate was emo as fuck. Um cutting himself all over the place, and I was in a dark place at the time, and because of it, I you know, I tried it, and you know, it helped release pain, you know, just release tension. Uh yes, it helped at the time, but but uh I definitely regret it, uh, like a motherfucker. And after a month of doing that, I I even stopped while I was there and I tried to get him to stop because this okay, I did it once or twice, okay. This motherfucker was so bad you could not see the skin on his legs. There were so many cuts, and he was cutting on his legs so that no one at the school would know because if they saw they would kick him out. Like at both legs, but all I could see was red right here, all up and down, red, red, red, red, red, red, red, red, red, the whole thing. And I started having to hit him like my last roommate hit me, so that he wouldn't cut himself. Uh, and I found myself in a weird, weird position when that happened, you know, because like at that point I've been toughened up a little bit, and I was also like, bro, like that's not I I can't see your skin. Like, that's not okay. Like, I started hitting him so he wouldn't cut himself.

Tom

So, like when you say you tried it because he tried it, is it kind of like was he?

James

Well, you know, I was in a part where I was just like, dude, I just I I was a very dark kid. Um no bullshit. I used to dream that like everyone in my family would die just randomly one day so that I could just live like some movie life or some shit. Some outsiders type shit. Like um I don't know home alone type shit. No, outsiders, the those kids that were like living on their own.

Tom

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. The book.

James

Cause I was just like, I was sick of it. So, but my question was so sick of it I asked.

Tom

When this guy is like cutting himself in the room, is it being like presented to you kind of like weed where someone's like, yo, you should try to do this. It's I feel better when I do this, or is it like is it like are you?

James

It was one of those things where his pain was so strong that he kept trying to cut, but every time he cut it wasn't enough.

Tom

It's kind of like a So it doesn't look like a heroin addict. I guess my point is like it doesn't look like a good scene, so why are you tempted to even try? Like, what about him? Like without him, would you have tried to do this? Would he influence you, or would you have just done it anyways, you think?

James

There's probably a five to ten percent chance I might have still done it if I stayed depressed for super long.

Tom

But uh So it fixed depression?

James

But it was just the wrong thing at the right time. You know? Like, military school was crazy. Like, you got in trouble if your face wasn't shaved exactly correctly. Like, I I I I got in trouble for the dumbest shit. Um, I was on ED, like, every single day. ED is basically when everyone else is doing sports, you're doing that, but like times 10 of a workout. I they'd have me lifting tires, going down a field back and forth for two hours straight. One time they said, uh, every time you run a mile, that's one ED off your thing. I said, fuck it. I I ran 30 in like like four or five hours. Uh that's a that's a marathon if you did it. No, yeah. I'll say, yeah. 26 is a marathon. No, yeah, man. And then then my last roommate was this black dude. He like he he was he just didn't not know how to pick up after himself. That's coming from me. Mm-hmm. I'm dirty as shit. And I don't know, man. Just everything always over the place. Um, at this point I've been toughened up. I've I I've gone through this cutting phase, and I this is at the point where I started not giving a fuck. Until this one dude showed up to the school. And this dude, well, tried to disrespect me. And after that bullshit roommate beating me every day, I was not taking shit at this school. I was like, no, no, no, no. And he said some shit to me, and I just immediately backhand his hat straight off his face. And and then he turns around and punched me right in the jaw. And I was about to hit him, and then the stand by him, I see all the sergeants turn around. So if I hit him, I'm I'm in trouble. So I just look at him with a smile while blood just rushes down my face. And I said, wait for it. And then we start marching. Uh I I didn't even feel it, bruh. I I knew there was blood going on my face, but it did not hurt.

Tom

Damn.

James

Uh that's probably when I started not giving a fuck.

Tom

So if you had kids and they were having issues, would you send them to military school? Is this something that you're like, it was a good experience, I had problems, they helped me work them out, or are you like, no, this was way more traumatizing than it needed to be. Uh 100%. I mean, so I would be a better one.

James

No offense to our parents, but if they raised a little writer, it wouldn't need it to happen.

Tom

Yeah.

James

I I plan the race, my kids right. Um like, okay. Parents a lot of times will hide things because they think it's better to hide them for their kids. 90% of the time they're wrong. Uh 10% of the time, okay, I get it. Um, but 90% of the time, you let them know it's all open, you know, it's right there. There's no, I gotta figure shit out for the next 20 years and keep finding new secrets that are fucking hidden. Let them know. They'll eventually get over it if they know fucking everything.

Tom

Uh so be honest with your kids.

James

Yes and just be fucking honest.

Tom

Raise them like with as more equals or like just like respect them and not to tell them what's going on. At the end of the day, it fucking happens. More than likely they wouldn't need to go to military school, you think?

James

Yeah.

Tom

But if you did have a kid that did be a problem and you try to raise him right, is this something you'd ever think is a could help, or no?

James

It just like half okay, let me put it this way, half the time we did not learn our lessons because our parents did not believe in like hitting your kids. Mm-hmm. I mean, it probably would have only taken twice for us to learn our lesson if they did give us a beating when we needed it. Keyword needed it. A lot of people out there, I agree, will say that people people's parents beat them too much. Because you can beat them too much. Only when it's needed, you know? I just want to make that fine line right there. And so no one comes at me.

Tom

Uh and so military school made you learn your lessons for real.

James

Oh yeah, that shit was crazy. I I I've never even talked about how crazy the fucking teachers were. This one dude, this one teacher of mine, he taught uh Earth Science, right? His wife had been in a mental hospital for 20 years at that point. And like he still went and visited her like all the time, talked to his students about it all the time. Like, like, bitch just went crazy.

Tom

Uh and so that affected his teaching?

James

Like she's he's still married to her. Like Damn. It was a little crazy. And there was this other teacher of mine who you know the movie The 18? He used to be in a special offs group just like that, and he would tell stories sometimes. Shit was wild. My English teacher was this black dude just as big as The Rock. Damn. And if anyone was late, he'd make the whole class do 100 push-ups. Damn. Or if you were the one that was late, they'd make the rest of the he'd make the rest of the class do push-ups, except for you. So they'd all be mad at you. Uh that's terrible, dude.

Tom

But that's how you really fuck with somebody.

James

He was my favorite teacher, no, no cap.

Tom

So, like leaving military school, what kind of person how has it changed you? What is your outlook on life different than going into it? What kind of person are you leaving that?

James

Um, well, military school definitely toughened me up, helped me learn a couple things. Because like I said, I was sheltered like a motherfucker before divorce and military school. I mean, teachers were telling me things all about the world that I didn't even thought about before because, you know, they were in the military and they've seen shit. 90% of the shit they weren't even allowed to like speak to their students about. Uh damn. Like, especially that one teacher's special ops, like, those are some blacked-out missions that no one has, you know, the papers for. Uh didn't happen type missions. Uh I don't know, it was a bit wild to hear some of those teachers' opinions when they weren't teaching. Uh bit wild.

Tom

I feel like you told me once that you've experienced more life than me, even though I'm older than you. I feel like the child.

James

I'm on my like ninth life. I I went from the stupid white kid that just you know, which has to parents. I don't know, this dude white kid that didn't really think about anything. I I I hadn't even wor heard the word like slave since until like ninth grade, eighth, eighth, seventh grade. That's how sheltered we were back then. I I didn't even know about that shit. That's how that's how much your parents could shelter you back then. Yeah, I didn't know there was discrimination at all. But that's how excluded and white we were and rich, wealthy we our family was. And then it all just came in at the same time because, you know, second divorce happened, we started looking around, started actually trying to pay attention, realizing our parents were bullshit. Uh cuz when you're a kid, you um you see your parent as this all-knowing, like she knows what's gonna happen, she knows what's I'm supposed to do, type of mentality. And when a divorce happens, when you're in sixth grade, you go, these motherfuckers don't know shit as much as I do half the time. I remember this one time dad picked up Jonathan, right? And he was acting like a fucking child, like, and I was like in eighth grade, and I was like, are you good? Like, you know, like very childish. But um no yeah. I went from that white kid to military school to come back in my first girlfriend, smoking weed for the first time, drinking for the first time, then to that crazy bitch, Millie. We'll get into that eventually. Um the plug, the middleman on the block, for no fucking reason. I I think back then I just think it was I thought it was fun. And then eventually, you know, shit hit my face when it got real. Bank fraud, all that, and you know, just believing the wrong person. Uh to go in the fucking China to come back and working out a bar.

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Tom Driver

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