What If Heaven Stops Listening To Empire

What happens when “God bless America” turns into background music for violence, greed, and moral excuses? I start with a principle I wish more of us lived by: freedom of speech is real, but freedom of speech does not require moral naivety. If someone’s outrage only activates for their team, I’m not obligated to treat their criticism like it’s coming from deep moral concern. Discernment is not censorship, and selective morality is not virtue.

From there, I unpack my latest essay, “When Heaven Stops Listening: Why God Does Not Hear The Prayers Of A Bloody Nation.” We walk straight through the biblical argument for unheard prayer, from Isaiah’s “your hands are full of blood” to the repeated prophetic warnings that prayer can become an abomination when repentance never comes. I connect that theology to modern American life: abortion, poverty, war funding, “collateral damage,” and the way empires use clean language to hide real bodies. I also talk through Gaza and the human shield debate with moral sobriety, refusing the cowardly move of letting any side’s talking points erase the value of children as image bearers.

Then we pivot into politics and media: a clip that shows racism aimed at Vivek Ramaswamy, the hypocrisy of “anti fraud” moralizing from people who defend obvious grifters, and a look at midterm polling and rising energy on the Democratic left. If any of this hits a nerve, it’s supposed to. Subscribe, share this with someone who will argue with you in good faith, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

Transcript

Welcome And Quote Of The Day

Free Speech Versus Moral Discernment

Selective Outrage And Moral Double Standards

When Heaven Stops Listening

Abortion And A Consistent Pro Life Ethic

War, Empire, And Collateral Damage Lies

Where To Read The Full Essay

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Welcome to the Daryl McLean Show. I'm your host, Daron McLean. Independent media that won't reinforce tribalism. We have one planet. Nobody is leaving. So let us reason together. Have the blessing of being able to be coming to you today from the beautiful Una Vista, Virginia. Basically in Lexington, Virginia at the lovely farm. And let us reason together. Started off the way we used to do in the very beginning of the program. Get back to our rooms, kicking it old school, as they say, or the quote of the day. Every time you speak, you have a choice. Every time you speak, you have a choice. That quote comes from the late Dr. Bell Hooks. Let's get into the episode. I'm going to start off with something that I need to say very clearly. You can believe in freedom of speech and still understand that not every criticism deserves to be treated morally and seriously. If someone still defends the Confederacy, makes excuses for fascism, Nazis, still accuse blatant racism, misogyny, sexism, anti-Semitism, homophobia, etc., and other human form of degradation when it comes from their side. I am not obligated to treat their criticisms of my heroes, my thinkers, my leaders or my community as though it's coming from some deep well of moral concern. Because at some point, their morality is not morality. It is tribal loyalty dressed up in moral language. They do not have standards, they have teams. They do not object to wrongdoings, they object to wrongdoing by the wrong people doing it. So, yes, they have the right to speak, but freedom of speech does not mean freedom from discernment. It does not mean I must pretend every bad faith critic is wisdom and every bad take critique is wisdom. It does not mean I have to sit at the feet of people whose outrage only activates when it benefits their tribe. Apply their own standard back to them. When they ignore the sins of their heroes, do not let them webonize selective morality against yours. Criticism from principal people should be heard. Criticism from tribal hypocrites should be weighed according accordingly. Now, let me get into why I say this. I am I perplexed, not really, but perplexed in this sense of people who will dig under every rock and every crevice of anybody that you bring up as a hero or somebody you admire, and then it has the most nuance it takes ever when it comes to people who are blatant monsters and not even current people, people who died a hundred years ago, uh etc etc. And I know that this is a trick that people use in order to try to muddy the waters and of a conversation so much that it seems like everybody is on the same same uh plane. It it works as if to s to play with the theological that we all know, let the who is our sin cast the first own. But they do only apply that to you and not to them, because when you can go and look at especially because we're all social media creatures now, the criticisms that they've had, you see they are selective, the outrage is selective, the morality is selective, and it is tribally selective. Please listen to the critique, but carry the critique with a grain of salt if it is not equally applied. And that is something that I noticed. I noticed the New York Times talking about Cesar Chavez, and the second the people brought up the criticism of Cesar Chavez, which is every human being is not perfect, all of a sudden his name gets taken off of everything left, right, into the you know, in the middle. Then again, this is at the same time that the United States of America and the current leadership that we have are going back in time and retroactively putting back names of Confederate generals all over the place on military bases who have done and did do worse things than Cesar Chavez would have even imagined. Which leads me to think, now what's the uh difference between that leader and those leaders? The the the issue is, as they would say, skinned deep. I look at how certain people have every criticism for somebody like Martin Luther King, and then cover up every single moral failing of somebody like Donald John Trump, and then they'll say, Well, it's about the occupation, it is not. It's not about the occupation, it's about the standard that you are failing to apply to your own side, let the who is out sin cast first stone. If you have the ability to obfuscate and make an excuse for every moral failing of this person, your criticism of a somebody who's been dead for that for this long, I wonder why you are going in the past to constantly drudge up sins of somebody who is long gone, and then I look at the people that you admire, and they did uh far worse, far often, never repented, it did not have to be they did not have to be spied on by the racist FBI and the pathetic racist J. Edgar Hoover. It was done blatantly. So some people's criticisms I do not take seriously, and I will not take seriously. I take seriously their humanity, I do not take seriously their moral clarity and their indignation, because indignation is not righteous, it is selective. Now let's get into this episode. So my latest piece is when heaven stops listening, why God does not hear the prayers of a bloody nation. Now I worked uh uh very hard on this one, and I thought about it for a very long time, and this was a direct response to the Secretary of War, uh Pete Hexit, um, thinking that God blesses and does not bless certain things. I do agree with him, but I agree with him in a way that will not be flattering if he heard it. There comes a times when a nation must ask a terrifying question. What if God is not impressed by our prayers? Not because prayer is weak, not because God is deaf, not because heaven has gone silent, but because the nation praying has gone fluent in religious language while remaining stubbornly committed to violence, greed, hypocrisy, bloodshed, and empire. That is not liberal talking, that is not conservative talking. That's the Bible that uh a lot of the people keep quoting. You clearly do not read. The prophets were not sentimental men. They did not walk into public squares saying, well, at least the nation has traditional values. They did not say at least the king mentioned God in the speech. They did not say at least the priests are still singing hymns. The prophets looked at nations, kings, armies, marketplaces, courts, temples, altars, and asked one brutal question, is there righteousness in the land? Because if there is no righteousness in the land, then all the prayers in the world become noise. And the prophet Isaiah said it plainly, and when ye hear forth your hands, I will hide my eyes from ye. When you make many prayers, I will not hear your hands are full of blood. This is a verse America does not want to read out loud. We love God bless America. We love uh the to sing and invoke religious stuff, but we do not love your hands are full of blood. I would dare say most Americans have not heard that verse. Americans love if my people who are called by my name, but we do not love, I will not hear. We love chaplains at inaugurations, prayers before congressional sessions, Bible verses after tragedies, and politicians ending speeches with God bless the United States of America. But the Bible gives us a category for a nation that prays with blood on its hands, and the terrible truth is God does not have to receive a prayer just because it contains religious vocabulary. A nation cannot mention God constantly and still be living in a way that makes heaven turn its face. This is where we are. I am convinced of it. God does not hear the prayers of the United States of America when those pairs are offered as patriotic incense over a pile of violated bodies. God does not hear us when we pray for peace while funding war. God does not hear us when we pray for children while destroying children in the womb, abandoning children in poverty, traumatizing children in schools, and explaining the way dead children overseas as collateral damage. God does not hear us when we ask for safety while worshiping weapons. God does not hear us when we ask for moral clarity while calling every atrocity committed by our allies complicated. The Bible has a word for that, and so does everybody else. Hypocrisy. And God is not obligated to answer the prayers of hypocrites. The Bible gives us a theology around unheard prayer. We often speak as if every prayer automatically rises to the throne of God with equal moral standing. But if you read the Christian scriptures, it's far more severe than that. The Bible does not teach that prayer is magic, it teaches that prayer is covenantal. Prayer is not a way to manipulate God, it is a way to come before God truthfully. That means a lying people cannot expect truthful communion with a holy God. Again, the prophet Isaiah says, Behold, the Lord's hands has not shortened, that it cannot save, neither is his ear heavy that it cannot hear. But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins has hid his face from you, that he will not hear you. Notice the point. God is not weak, God is not distant because he lacks power, God is not silent because he lacks hearing. The problem is the moral separation, the problem is the sin. The problem is the iniquity that has become institutional, cultural, legal, and normal. God says to Jeremiah, the prophet Jeremiah, therefore pray not thou for these people, for I will not hear thee. Again, though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them. Again from Jeremiah, when they fast, I will not hear their cry. Let's go to the prophet Ezekiel. Thy though they will cry in my ears with a loud voice, yet I will not hear them. Let's go to the prophet Micah. They sin, then they shall cry unto the Lord, but he will not hear them. Let's go to the prophet Zechariah. As he cried, and they would not hear, so they cried, and I will not hear, saith the Lord of hosts. Let's go to Proverbs. He that turneth away his ear from the hearing of the law, even his prayer shall be an abomination. Let's go to the Psalms. If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me. This is not an obscure doctrine buried in one strange verse. This is thick biblical witness. God refuses prayer. Prayer becomes a substitute for repentance. America wants prayer without repentance, and that is our crease, our crisis. We do not want to turn away from the bloodshed. We want to find a chaplain to bless the battlefield. We do not want to turn away from the greed. We want to find a preacher to baptize our capitalism. We do not want to turn away from our imperialism. We want God to bless our foreign policy violence. We want God to protect our troops, our borders, our markets, our interests, our allies, our myths of innocence. Key word, myth of innocence. But God is not a mascot for any country. God is not an eagle, nor is God a flag. And now God is not a chaplain of empire. God is holy. You are not, he is not obligated to hear your prayers when you come to him incorrectly as hypocrites, liars, swindlers, etc. And holy means God does not clap along while nations shed blood and call it strategy. Your hands are full of blood. Isaiah's indictment begins with blood, not bad branding, not poor messaging, not failure to be bipartisan, blood. Your hands are full of blood, Isaiah says. The question is whether America religious is righteous. And the evidence is not very flattering. So let us begin where many Christians are rightly uncomfortable. Abortion. According to GutMatchers 2026 fact sheets, U.S. clinicians provided an estimated 1,126,000 abortions in 2025, roughly unchanged from 2024 and up from 2020, the last year of comprehensive national estimate before the Dobbs decision. The CDC's official surveillance estimate reported 613,383 abortions from 2022 from 48 reported areas, but that number is limited by reported gaps and does not count every abortion nationally. Now let us be honest. If an unborn child is a human life made in the image of God, this is not merely a policy disagreement. It's blood. It is national blood, it is legal blood, it is profitable blood, it is blood wrapped in slogans about choice, freedom, privacy, autonomy, and health care. But I refuse to let the pro-life movement stop the moral audit there. Because I've been around the pro-life movement for a lot of years. And I have noticed, unfortunately, some people only care about unborn children until they are born poor, born black, born undocumented, born Palestinian, born Yemeni, born from Afghan, born from Iraq, born into neighborhoods with lead pipes, born into schools with metal detectors, and born into houses where rent eats the whole paycheck. That is not a biblical pro-life theology. That is a political branding with sonogram pictures. If Isaiah says your hands are full of blood, then America must answer for abortions, yes, but America must also answer for war. Brown University's Cause of War project estimates that more than 940,000 people were killed by direct violence in post-9-11 war zones through 2023, including more than 432,000 civilians. And also notes that indirect deaths from destroyed health systems, economics, infrastructure, and environments are far higher than that number that I just said. That means a nation can say, Lord, hear our prayers, and God will not hear it. Because a nation cannot say, Lord, hear our prayers while stepping over the bodies of innocent people in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Libya, Gaza, as if geography makes grief less sacred. A dead child in Mosul is not less dead because an American spokesperson used the phrase precision strike. A dead family in Yemen is not less dead because the weapon was sold illegally. A dead Palestinian child is not less dead because someone said the word human shield. A dead unborn child is not less dead because someone said the word choice. God is not fooled by the vocabulary of the powerful. God hears Abel's blood crying from the ground. That's in the Old Testament, by the way. And if Abel's blood cries from the ground, what do you think the blood of millions of dead, innocent people does when God hears it? I'll leave that thought with you. Collateral damage is not a biblical category. Collateral damage is not a political category, a biblical category, and it does not mean that the perpetrators are innocent. One of the most wicked phrases in modern politics is the word collateral damage. It is a phrase designed to help the comfortable sleep. It is how empires keep its conscience sedated as it turns its uh grandmother into unfortunate consequences. It turns a child into a statistical inconvenience. It turns a wedding party into a targeting error. It turns a hospital into a tragic misunderstanding. It turns a city into a theater of operations. But scripture does not allow us to hide murder behind managed management language. Proverbs says this. The same principle applies. The cry of the bomb, the displaced, the occupied, the orphaned, and the widowed. If we stop our ears at their cry, God will stop his ears at ours. And this is why the human shield argument must be handled with moral sobriety. International humanitarian law clearly prohibits using civilians as human shields. The ICRC identifies human shielding as prohibited practice. And it also emphasizes that states and parties to conf to the conflict must respect and ensure respect for humanitarian law in all circumstances. The principles of distinction and proportionality remain central. Civilians do not lose their moral birth because wicked people operate near them. That means we can condemn Hamas for October 7th, hostage taking attacks on civilians, and using civilian areas for military purposes, while also refusing to pretend that Israel or any other state that receives money from us, and by us I mean the United States of America, that that money gives them a blank check to turn neighborhoods into graveyards. The United States cannot hide behind allied language with the U.S. money, U.S. weapons, U.S. diplomatic. And U.S. veto power help sustain the violence. The Council on Foreign Relations reports that since the start of the Israeli war with Hamas on October 2, 2023, the United States has enacted legislation providing at least 16.3 billion in direct military aid to Israel, in addition to 3.8 billion per year under the existing aid framework. The United Nations Human Rights Office has reported, and this was in November 2024, that nearly 70% of verified facilities in Gaza were I'm sorry, that verified fatalities in Gaza were women and children. 70% of verified fatalities in Gaza were women and children. While Israeli officials have repeatedly argued that Hamas embedded itself among civilians and uses civilian infrastructure. This is exactly where moral theology must not become cowardly. If a terrorist hides behind a child, the terrorist is guilty. But if the state kills the child and then congregate and then congratulates itself for killing the terrorist too, heaven is not required to applaud, and nor am I. A child is not a footnote in a military strategy or military necessity. A child is not a regrettable cause of geopolitical alignment. A child is not a public relations problem. A child is an image bearer of God. And if America funds, excuses, arms, protects, rationalizes the killing of image bearers that America should not be shopping. God says, when you make prayers, I will not hear. Now, the piece that I wrote was over 5,000 words. Um that was just the flavor of it. If you get the flavor of what I'm saying and you agree, you can go and get the piece. It is free on the Substack. Just Google the name Darrell McLean. The Substack will be there. It's uh I'm on Facebook, Instagram. I am purposely not behind a paywall because I have no interest in hiding knowledge. God has richly blessed me, and so I have no interest in hiding the knowledge. I have, for the sake of this debate about God, etc., not only put numbers towards some atrocities, I have also layered the piece with Bible verse after Bible verse after Bible verse to back up my claim. And this also ties into what I am working on, which, Lord's willing, the book, the book will be released around December. Of course. Right around the time for stock and stuff, stock it stopping. And I want people to be wrestling with these truths while they think about the Savior's birthday. Um but I haven't get into some other criticisms. Um, but again, if you want to check out the piece that I wrote, this was where Reach released on yesterday, free for anybody that is interested on Substack, and it is titled With Heaven Stops Listening, Why God Does Not Hear the Prayers of a Bloody Nation. Right back with more on the Darrell McLean show.

Vivek, Christian Nationalism, And Racism

SPEAKER_05 28:31

Some of the qualities of the right, the far right, have come back to bite them in the ass in a glorious way. This is a classic, classic example of uh your racism backfiring spectacularly. Okay. So as you all know, Vivek Ramaswamy is running for governor of Ohio. And honestly, everybody thought he was kind of a shoein. Ohio is basically a red state these days. They're basically just a red state at this point. And uh he thought, oh, for sure, I'll win. I made a name for myself, running for president, and you know, Trump uh supports me. And, you know, what can go wrong? Well, what can go wrong is a massive uh blue wave environment, number one. The other thing that could go wrong is you're brown and you're functionally trying to be a leader in a white nationalist party. Okay, that's what it is. Let's just call it what it is. That's what it is. Well, here we have a great example. Uh, this guy, Joel Webon, and um he's a pastor, and he has some thoughts for us on Vivek as governor of Ohio. Here we go.

SPEAKER_04 29:29

If he becomes the pre the president, the governor of Ohio, you have solidified Vivek's political career for the rest of his life in America. He's not going away. Exactly. This is the tendency to say, no, never, ever. Go back home. Get out of our country. You were born in America, sure, by days. Your dad hates our country, never took the time to become a citizen. You're an anchor baby. Your family built their wealth by robbing white people with miracle drugs that you knew were not going to be viable. You became a billionaire, you paid your way onto every podcast, you've been lying, you've been deceiving, and this is not American. You are not American. You are a Hindu.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

Now, I have to interrupt. First off, Joe Webbin is a charlatan as well. And I'll just say this. When he got to that miracle drug stuff, does he have the same criticism of, I don't know, Alex Jones, who sells miracle drugs for years that everybody knows who's in the fitness industry like me does not work? Does he have the same criticism of every single right wing podcast who sells who hawks supplements that everybody in the fitness industry that I'm in knows do not work? Does he does he have the same criticism of every right wing podcast who sells people false hopes of Bitcoin, etc., etc.? That's nothing more than a scam. He does not. I follow his work. I listen to him. He does not. His criticisms, as I said earlier, only land because they are selective based on skin.

SPEAKER_04 31:32

You are polytheist. You are a false idol worshiper. Go home. Get out of our country. I don't care about you quoting Thomas Jefferson. I don't care about you pretending to honor the founders. This is America. We wear Jews in this country. We eat beef in this country. We worship Christ exclusively in this country. We don't rob people of their wealth in this country. Get the hell out.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

We don't rob people of their wealth in this country, says somebody who's obviously never looked at any economic report. This is fairly easy. There's a show on CSNBC, not a very liberal network, called American Greed. And this is about documented scams that have happened in the United States of America that were caught by the Fraternal Bureau of Investigations. I suggest to somebody tell Pastor Webbin to check that out and see if we steal things in the United States of America. I might as well point out the low-hanging fruit that the United States of America, like every settler colonial society, but we're gonna stick with America, was stolen land. And not only was America a stolen land, we then went to countries and stole people to work on the land for free. And then we spent years systematically saying that said people who we stole to work on the land were not people to justify us stealing them. We then, after air quote, freeing the people that we stole, wrote laws and legislation to make sure the people could never benefit from so-called freedom that they had just gotten. Did I skip over the fact that in order to get the freedom, there had to be a war fought that killed well over 500,000 Americans? And then even after that, we came up with this thing called policing, and you can do your own research, which people want, uh how the first police came into being, what they were initially used for. Mm-hmm, da-da-da-da. Fugitive Slave Act, yada yada yadda. Some people know the history because that's their history. Other people know other histories because they are brainwashed by the school system to always pretend like their side is innocent of ever doing anything wrong. So, Joe Webon, please, please. I don't even know why anybody would say this. Yes, I do. A demon-possessed liar. Demon-possessed liar.

SPEAKER_05 34:49

That's the proper response. Oh my word. Oh my word. Christian nationalist pastor Joel Webon declares that Vivekromoswami must be demolished in the Ohio election to send a message to the GOP that polytheistic, demon-worshipping, cow worshipping, bare feet scamming anchor baby Indians will not be tolerated. Oh my days. What happened, bro? I thought you were a hero to these people. I thought they loved you. I thought Magda was all about like colorblindness and stuff, bro. They're not racist, right? Oops. Turns out you were wrong. And the liberals and the leftists were right, weren't we? Oh my days. So uh as is pointed out here by Hermit Meta, who's the friendly atheist, he says, love it when their racism backfires on Republicans. Look, the fact of the matter is, there is a strong contingent of Republicans that are so racist that if they look at a brown candidate who nominally shares their ideas versus a white liberal male who uh doesn't share their ideas, but he's what? There's enough racist, open racists now in the Republican Party where plenty of them will be like, I'm gonna either sit it out or vote for the white guy. That's what it is, right? That's what it is. And the thing is, you don't even need that many of these people to do that in order for him to lose. You already have a blue wave year. You already have a blue wave year. So it's already a tough road for Republicans. Mix that in with what? Let's say 5%, 10% of Republican voters are so racist, they either sit it out because he's brown or some of them vote for the Democrat. You're cooked, you're done, it's over, it's a wrap. And like don't say we didn't warn you. Don't say we didn't warn you. Whenever I see MAGA people of color, there's like an extra level of delusion there, right? There's an like, what do you think? You really think like, oh, I'm one of the good ones, they'll accept me. The fuck they will, of course they won't. Why would they? Only insofar as you are useful to their agenda. That's it. That's it. As long as you're saying the things that they want to hear, sure, they'll tolerate you, but they'll never fully accept you. And the fact of the matter is the Republican base has gone further and further to the right. They've become more and more fascist, they've become more and more white nationalist. That now it used to be the case, you could be a racist in the Republican Party, but you have to pretend to be in favor of colorblindness. That used to be the thing. Now they've reached the point where it's like, no, no, no, we're not even pretending anymore with the colorblindness shit. Now we say, like, we want to preserve this nation as a white nation. Now they say that shit allowed. Now they say shit like re-migration, which is a Nazi idea. They just say it out loud. Now they say, hey, I want, I want a white country. Like, that's what I want. I don't want allowing any immigrants, illegal or legal. This is what they said. And so now, you know, you're doing the whole like early 2000s of a Republican, and that's outdated. Sorry, it's no longer Ben Shapiro time. It's now Nick Fuentes' time. And you can't keep up simply because of who you are. And all that fucking, you know, excusing you did, and all the obfuscation you did, and the rationalization you did for the Republican Party is coming to bite you in the ass because everything every critic of the Republicans ever said to you was true. They'll never accept you. They're racist at their core, it's part of their ideology. Doesn't matter if you agree with them on all the other shit. Uh, they will kick your ass to the curb instantly, simply because you're brown, simply because you're Hindu. Doesn't matter how much, oh, I'm a cultural Christian or like I like quoting the founding father. They don't give a fuck about that. By the way, the only legitimate criticism here is that it's true. He's a scammer. He absolutely is a scammer. He committed a scam. They absolutely committed a go read about that shit. They committed a fucking scam with like some fake medicine and shit. Um, terrible, terrible stuff. But uh, bro, their racism is biting them in the ass. And uh it's never been more clear. Hey y'all, do me a favor and like and subscribe. It helps out big time in the algorithm. Click the bell as well for notifications when videos drop and watch that video on screen right now. You know you want to.

Midterm Warning Signs And Polling Shifts

SPEAKER_03 39:00

So before I get into the next clip, of course, in order to talk about what back to the quote that I had in the very beginning of the show, and I mean the the quote at the very beginning of the show came from me, which I'll say again just in case we have short memories, which uh because I know Americans we do, I'll say this again when I've talked about what I am obligated and not obligated to do. If someone still defends Confederacy's still excuse blatant racism, misogyny, sexism, anti-semitism, homophobia, and every other human form of degradation when it comes to their side, I am not obligated to treat their criticism of my heroes, my thinkers, my leaders, my community as though it comes from some deep well of moral concern. Joe Webbon was an adamant supporter of Donald Trump, who is known for nothing more before he ran for president as a gigantic scammerist. And it is a part of the public record. He has been sued multiple times over his long, long life and has lost multiple times. There are depositions that you can go look at where he clearly knows he scammed. And one thing I can say that's very true about the Donald Trump that is in public, versus the Donald Trump when he goes to court and was under deposition, the Donald Trump under deposition did not lie. Trump University, scam. Trump stake, Trump vodka, yada yada yada. Scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam. In the Trump orbit, it is regularly seen that everybody around him goes to jail for actual crimes. Actual. Because they are smart enough in the criminal organization to fall on the sword of the boss. He was the boss, they fell on the sword of the boss, he protected them. You can go look. We can you can say all the silly stuff on the old FBI, which yadda yadda yada, whatever. It was documented for decades, and it was proven for decades. Lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit from actual successful businesses that he was scamming, losing case after case for decades. Did Joe did Joe Webbin with a straight face was to say America's not a place for fraudsters is stupidity. Not just stupidity, a blatant lie. Unless I say something obvious here, what makes this crazy to me, is of course Joe Webbon is a pastor. A pastor, not just a pastor, a pastor in the reformed community, of which I somewhat sit, who has all these criticisms for people like John Piper. But look at what the type of stuff he says. You should take people like him as serious as you take the people who used to say cigarettes were healthy. And to stick this to this point uh about all these things, this is extremely crazy to me because even even though, of course it it we've seen this before, it does not necessarily mean that it is true, but from all the indications that I have seen, from from the historical way that it works, there goes Virginia, normally goes the country. So, what I mean by that is historically speaking, if the Virginia governor is different from the president that won the previous election, the president and is going to lose in the midterms. So the president Donald Job Trump won the 20 uh uh I want to say the 2024-2025 election. Um blanking here it is 1.56 a.m. while I'm recording this. And then Abigail Spamberger, former CIA person, and people know how I feel about the CIA and the FBI, yada, yada. But anyway, a Democrat won Virginia, historically speaking, that means the party in power is now about to lose because Virginia has traditionally been considered what we call a purple state. Virginia, because they have an equal amount of Republicans and Democrats, even though I I am somebody who really believes that people in the rural areas of Virginia need more representation. But Virginia is a plate that regularly switches from red to blue, red to blue, red to blue, so much that is considered purple. Unlike Florida, that's a solidly red state, so Democratic votes don't matter in Florida. California is a solidly uh blue state, so Republican votes don't matter in California. People's votes do actually matter in the Commonwealth of Virginia. Um sorry to say it that way. I don't even really think voting matters at this point for other reasons. That's a complicated conversation. But um strategically, uh historically, that's what I mean. Even though every indicator points that there's gonna be a massive blue wave, it doesn't matter. It does not matter because he's not the right color. That is crazy to me. It's not crazy in in in the in the sense of um, I don't know that it's coming. I'm a student of history. It's crazy with how much racism must operate at the forefront of Joe Webbon's brain.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

So we have some new fairly bombshell reporting from Apples Intel, which, if I'm not mistaken, Sagar was the most accurate pollster both in 2020 and in 2024. So let's go ahead and put this piece up on the screen here with regard to the midterms. So this is what they call the generic ballot. They say just like, okay, Democrat versus Republican, not putting specific candidates in, who do you prefer? The Democrats are winning here by 14 and a half points on the generic ballot for the House. That is a shock game margin. You know, all these other concerns, justified concerns about the winning maps are being redrawn, et cetera. Like you are not, if you if Democrats are winning the national vote by something approaching 14 points, there is no amount of not changes, there is no amount of ice at the point. That is that is going to truly be too big to rig in terms of taking control of the House. And you know, poll after poll shows it's not that people love the Democrats. The Democrats have a lot of work to do to reclaim any sort of decent brand with the American people. It's just that they are utterly disgusted with the Republicans, with Donald Trump specifically. And Sagar, it does have some credibility given the fact not only Atlas's um track record, but given what we've seen in all of these special elections. 15 points is the average, roughly the average shift toward Democrats that we've seen in all of these seats. So, you know, it that gives it some credibility. Again, it's an outlier. I want to make that clear, but it does give those numbers some credibility given that when people have actually gone and voted, this is roughly what we have seen.

SPEAKER_06 47:30

Let's start with that. So remember, special election is the most predictive of midterms. Uh, it is by far going back many, many years for what's actually going to happen. Then we can start to look at some of the polls and their past track record. Now you're absolutely right. 2022 and 2024, Atlas Intel was A plus, was with 2.2 points of the general 2024 electorate. It was the most accurate of that year. However, what we also learned is what? Is that Iowa seltzer poll, traditional track record can be wrong. So let's put all those caveats. But I think whenever you combine the two things, you could say what general trend uh in this direction, unless it's some sort of seltzer-esque, you know, crazy misfire. But, you know, when I take a look actually at the issue by issue, that's where I really start to see huge problems for the Republicans. Let's put D2 up there on the screen from Atlas. Now lead on every major issue. Trump's two strongest areas are D plus 9 and D plus 7. Uh, this is from immigration and for defense, but at the very, very top, this is usual environment and education and healthcare. Democrats usually are there. But this is where it gets interesting. Employment and job market and inflation and cost of living. Those are two areas for very traditional Republican strongholds. You have plus 15, plus 17 Democratic preference. Trade policy and tariffs, you also have another shift towards the Democrats at plus 13. Foreign policy, immigration, taxes, even you have a plus eight. Crime at plus three for Dems. So you know things are absolutely insane when Dems are getting plus three whenever it comes to crime. Maybe a lot of people are taking all these headlines about these white-collar pardons. Wouldn't be honestly, it wouldn't be surprised to me. True.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

If if it were I'm being dead serious in terms of how they're thinking, honestly, the the lowest number of white-collar prosecutions in history happening right now under the term of the government.

SPEAKER_06 49:23

And there has been a decline in the murder rate. So if you put those two things together, you're not as worried about violence, uh, then you also have uh this white-collar prosecution. It wouldn't shock me. But I think what it comes down to is a rejection at the mass level, very similar to how the public reacted after Obama was president for a year. There are a lot of reasons, largely for that, but it culminated in that huge wipeout, the shellacking of 2010. And I think, well, first of all, the the problem with this is it all presumes that Trump cares at all about their chances, which it just doesn't seem like they care. Like anybody who cares about their midterm election chances is not saying things that which would be let our show about. I don't care or think about Americans' financial situation at all, right? So this is where I'm like, I genuinely think that they have given up entirely on the domestic front, like completely. This is the only thing that can explain the sheer obsession with Venezuela 51st state, the reflecting pool, the ballroom, Iran. That's all they really have any control over. The rest of the party has a political future. He doesn't, he doesn't care. He only cares about the future, but he's gonna drag it down with him because the one last thing that we have to be clear on with the Republicans is while many people are fleeing the Republican Party, in particular many of these independent or swing voters, not just swing, non-identified Trump voters, the actual Republican base is all in for Trump. I mean, do you remember these very recently, these Indiana uh Senate races that were happening where a lot of some of these Indiana Republicans crossed Trump, they all lost, okay? So the actual MAGA people, they're all they're still all in. And I I that's just a caveat that I want to make very clear. Like, Trump is still the chief of the declining. In fact, it might be more powerful because at this point, if you're still all in for Trump, there's literally nothing he can do, including shooting someone on Fifth Avenue, for which they will decline. And so that actually leaves a very good place, I think, for the Democratic Party. I would compare it, I'm trying to think, maybe the 1970s, uh, where like McGovern, this is a good example. So the 1970s, the entire post-Watergate Democratic Party was having a tough time, especially after Jimmy Carter, kind of figuring out like what we're going to do. And what they did is it opened up this huge space for, remember the Reagan Democrat that was like a thing back in the 1980s? Really, what it was was an inverse rejection of kind of the embrace of the new left and this identitarian. This this Democratic Party which had no real identity. There was a very hardcore base of people who supported it, but not enough to create like a majority coalition, which is really what all these people decided to do when they voted for Reagan, even if some of them even didn't even agree with their policy. I would compare it now to the others. We have a very, very small slice of the country, which is still very odd much all in and believing, but it leaves all of this open, negative polarization space, which is the defining politics of our era, towards the Democratic Party. They not like them, but they don't like the Republicans at all. It kind of very similar to the 2024 dynamic. A lot of voters hated Biden. They didn't love Trump, they didn't like a lot of things about him. He still had a negative approval rating. We're still willing to vote for him in the end.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

Yeah. I mean, you could also potentially compare it to, depending on how bad things get here with the Iran war and a possible global depression. You could also compare it with Herbert Hoover. You know, and we're not there yet. We're not there yet. But I that's a that's a possibility. You know, I mean, but that requires having that FDR-like figure who can have a really broad appeal, um, centered around, you know, a uh sort of not only national patriotism, but also uh prospera, broadly shared prosperity was really the cornerstone of what he offered, obviously, with in the the context that that was not completely shared by black Americans, certainly, Japanese internment can't all the caveats um notwithstanding and very significant caveats at that. But, you know, if you had that type of figure, I do think there's a possibility for for that sort of coalition coming together. You know, we get very used to this very narrow partisan victories when you have both politicians basically sort of playing to the culture wars and not really promising significant economic change in a way that's credible. And that that part, the way that's credible, is the most significant part because one of the biggest questions is whether you can get Americans to really believe in a big national project of any sort, given the level of humiliation and decline that we're suffering right now. But in any case, um, you know, all of this. So you've got Republicans falling apart in terms of the national standing. Certainly the Trump coalition has broken down as hard as core supporters are always going to be there with him, but it is a minority of somewhere around a third of the population. That is obviously not nearly enough to win house elections, when, you know, even maintain control of the Senate, let alone hold on to the presidency in 2028. This poll from Atlas Intel was also very interesting on the Democratic side, um, and very different from what we've seen on other Democratic primary 2028, you know, trial runs. So let's put this up on the screen. This is the first one that we've seen AOC leading the field with 26% of the vote. Next in line, you've got Pete at 22%, Gavin at 21, Kamala down at 13, and then everybody else is pretty far below that. Andy Bashir, four, Corey Booker four, um, none of the above three, Shapiro two, Whitmer one, Walls one, Kana one, Rama Manuel 0.6, and Westmore 0.4. So um, look, again, it's an outlier, but it does add an interesting data point. AOC is very much seen as the, you know, the heir to Bernie Sanders. She is the seen as the vanguard of the left of the party and um and the sort of inheritor of that legacy. What we've seen in primary contests around the country, and actually, if we can jump forward and put Abdul's numbers up here on the screen here, D5, is that the energy in the Democratic Party is very much with the left of the party in a way that it truly in all of our lifetimes has never been, including during the times when Bernie Sanders was running, where people liked Bernie, but they were worried, oh, is he electable? I don't know. And there was kind of a limit to how far people were willing to go in terms of voting for him or voting for candidates who styled themselves in his image. That seems to be changing. We now have in the Michigan Senate race, Angel Osyed is really surging here. We've got a new poll that has him emerging as the race is a clear front runner, 28% support ahead of Haley Stevens at 18 and state senator Mallory McMorrow at 17%. So they're basically in a tie for second. And this is really stunning. They have him getting 80% of the support of voters between the ages of 18 and 44. So Gen Z and millennials 80% support. Stevens is getting 4% and McMarrus getting 3%. So massive, massive generational divide in terms of the view of this race. We can also look in terms of that left energy dominating the base of the party, certainly Graham Platiner coming out of nowhere, having never run for anything before, and easily dispatching with the sitting governor of Maine, who was backed by the establishment of the Democratic Party. So, you know, this poll showing AOC in the lead fits with that trend of voters in the base of the party looking around and going, okay, well, who is who is aligned with that Sanders wing? Who is going to, you know, who is going to stand up to corporate interests? Who is going to be different? And, you know, I've got my um concerns about AOC that I've voiced on this show previously. But in terms of voter perception of who she is and what her branding is, I think it's very consistent with the energy that we've seen behind Abdullah Zayed and Graham Platter. It is interesting.

SPEAKER_06 57:27

I yeah, I don't know. I just don't see her coming out of primary. I don't. She's not a good debater. She folded in Munich. Uh, she doesn't really. I don't know. What was the analogy you made about how she always seems like she's studying for the test and looking for the right answer as opposed to having an answer that she already that's really important uh for a politician. A lot of it right now is the idea of AOC as opposed to AC, the politician. Right? And that I agree with that. You can't get through a primary uh through something like that, especially if you're going to be challenged. You know, the one thing that I think this whole thing presumes is that Kamala's not gonna run again, which I am not putting off the table. Uh she very clearly done.

SPEAKER_01 58:05

They have her in there, and she's led most of the polls she has led uh for Democratic primary trial runs. That's why this one is different. Right. But it had her at 13%. Um, so still, you know, garnering some support. But, you know, I'm look, I'm not that concerned for the same reason you're you're saying like you don't think AOC can come through a primary. I mean, I think Kamala proven herself to not hold well under public scrutiny. Um so you know, I think even though people she'll be able to come out and say, look, I warned you that I said this about Trump and I was right, like I warned you, I tried to tell you. And there is an like there continues to be a lot of warm feelings towards her, um, you know, in in certain parts of the party. But I I'm not personally that concerned with that translating into uh Kamala Harris primary calendar. The last thing I'll just flag because I don't I don't think she'll hold up to scrutiny.

SPEAKER_06 59:01

Yeah, the last thing I'll flag because we have our guests standing by, is the primary calendar matters so much. It matters so much how that primary calendar is going to look like. And as far as I know, you can tell me. I don't think that it's yet set in stone. But if they go the traditional route, which or at least the Biden route where they wanted South Carolina and first, and without any of the Rust Belt or Nevada, any of these places where Bernie did really well, remember, it can significantly skew the way things go. And I wouldn't put it past the DNC after what they've pulled with this Biden autopsy and everything that they've done. And I mean, remember, before uh what's her name, uh Mills dropped out against Platner, the uh Schumer in them were going all in for them. So I I would not put it past them whatsoever to nominate or to rig the scales, uh uh rig rig the system in favor of a Gavin or a Kamala, uh, if it were somebody like that. So I that's my last flag for people because it's so they're gonna try.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:00

I just think it's gonna be difficult to do what they did in the past because just like with the Mills race, people are like, oh, you're Schumer's candidate, and that means I'm definitely not voting for you. And um, the ability to manufacture consent with the media outlets is really severely degraded too by the rise of independent media and also by the the degradation of trust in uh mainstream liberal outlets.

Closing Words, Reagan Clip, And Prayer

SPEAKER_03 1:00:20

So doing shows can be uh somewhat a weird thing because I have so much to say and think about U right now. Yeah, I I am so fired up, there's so much I want to talk about. But because I'm a psychology major I know how many minutes you want to do. Four hours. I don't like more than I can. I can't wait to get everything I can be. Thank you so much for tuning in. And uh we'll see you on the next episode. I can tell you just in case you want to hear, the splash of intellectual past will be from the former uh President of the United States. Um, one of the great speeches from the late President Ronald Reagan. See you all on the next episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:16

If we look to the answer, Mr. Why, for so many years we achieved so much, prospered as no other people on earth, it was because here in this land we unleash the energy and individual genius of man to a greater extent than has ever been done before. Freedom and the dignity of the individual have been more available and assured here than in any other place on earth. The price for this freedom at times has been high. But we have never been unwilling to pay that price. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look. The sloping hills of Arlington National Cemetery, with its roll upon row of simple white markers, bearing crosses or stars of David, they add up to only a tiny fraction of the price that has been paid for our freedom. Each one of those markers is a monument to the kind of hero I spoke of earlier. Their lives ended. And halfway around the world. Under once a young man, who left his job in a small town barbershop in 1917 to go to France with the famed Rainbow Division. There on the Western Front. He was killed, trying to carry a message between battalions under heavy artillery fire. We're told that on his body was found on the fly leaf under the heading My Pledge. He had written these words. I will say I will fight and do my most. For the enemies of freedom, those who are potential adversaries, they will be reminded that peace is the highest aspiration of the American people. We will negotiate for it, sacrifice for it, we will not surrender for it now or ever. We are Americans.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:39

This is my faith. Keep me safe, keep me strong. And now you build the subway. This is my face to the night to the dark. But I destroyed every tear, every spot. But now we start with me. Right way, way you're the reason that I pray. This is my prayer too. Keep me safe, keep me strong. I know you've been there all along. Save my people, my siblings and loved ones. Please help us, Jesus, through your kingdom. This is my prayer too. Through the night, through the dark, be the light inside my heart. Don't let me fall apart, Lord. Stay right where you are, even when I don't feel you. I know that you're near. Through the silence and the tears. You've been fighting on my fears. I surrender, I let go. You see things I don't know. Like my story, take control, lead me where I need to go. This is my prayer. This is my prayer. Keep me safe, keep me strong. I know you've been there all along. Save my people. Here I cry, lift our hands up through the sky. This is my prayer through the night, through the pain. Wash me clean in heaven's rain. I'll forever call your name. Jesus, you will never change.