For People with Bishop Rob Wright
For People with Bishop Rob Wright
250th Special
This week we celebrate 250 episodes of our Podcast, For People! From its inception until now our purpose has been singular, to talk about God, God’s goodness and how we might respond to this good God made known to us in the person of Jesus Christ. Thus far, we have listeners in 142 countries. An immense thank you goes to Easton Davis, our producer, and Melissa Rau, my conversation partner, most weeks. Incredibly affirming and instructive for us in this work is that we have heard from so many telling us about the ways For People has been a blessing, companion and inspiration for them in their life with Christ. Please know that we understand it to be a privilege to make this offering. Psalm 118 helps me say how I really feel about this milestone, "You are my God, and I will thank you; you are my God, and I will exalt you. Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good….” -Bishop Rob Wright
In the 250th episode, Melissa and Bishop Wright take listeners on a journey through some of the most profound moments from past conversations on For People. The four soundbites from podcasts guests include The Rev. Dr. Robert Franklin, Archbishop Hosam Elias Naom, Texas State Representative James Talarico, and Bishop Mariann Budde. These soundbites represent critical intersections of faith and life emphasizing the importance of moral leadership in our world today. Listen in for the full conversation.
In celebrating 250 episodes, we have developed a survey to better understand how Bishop Wright's For People Podcast can continue to inspire, engage, and serve our listeners. Your feedback is invaluable in helping us improve the content, format, and overall experience of the podcast. Please take 5 minutes to complete the survey here.
I give thanks for you know some of the bumps in the road and the speed bumps now that have turned into my best teachers and it is all gift and I think if you get down into gratitude, you know it's amazing how that changes your spirituality. We move from an obligation, we move from needing to be a good boy or a good girl and trying to win favor and we move deeply down into wow, can you believe this?
Melissa:Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright, I'm Melissa Rau and friends, today we're celebrating our 250th episode, which is just one reason for which I'm giving thanks today. Just a few stats to share In our 250 episodes, For People has been downloaded over 330,000 times and our listenership represents 6,700 cities in 142 countries.
Melissa:Yeah, man. So, friends, we're going to be playing some of our recent favorite clips over the last 150 episodes, since we did this in celebration of our centennial episode drop, and so our first clip is from the Reverend Dr. Robert Franklin.
The Rev. Dr. Robert Franklin:I think about moral leadership as a people who inspire us to become the best versions of ourselves ourselves. They are able to do that because moral leaders possess integrity, courage, imagination, wisdom, empathy a host of virtues that prompt them to serve the common good and prompt them to invite others to join the process of building a better community and a just society.
Melissa:Bishop. That's fire right there and I'm just curious. I mean, the list of virtues was so good, but I really love that he talks about inviting others into creating the common good. What was your favorite part about that clip?
Bishop Wright:Well, you know, I think we wanted to talk to Dr. Franklin because, you know, we're looking out at the world and we're wondering about leadership, and we're wondering about a particular kind of leadership, that's moral leadership. You know people who are ethically minded, or you know people who are are ethically minded, or you know who are, you know, tethered to morals that benefit the entire human family, and I just wanted to. You know, what I love about, you know, this podcast is that we get to seek wisdom from lots of different kinds of people, and over all these years, we've just been cold calling people and ask them hey, would you join me for 20 minutes? You know online, and ask them, hey, would you join me for 20 minutes online? And they have said yes, really significant intellects, people with big hearts and just sort of bright minds, and so, yeah, I wanted to talk about moral leadership.
Bishop Wright:One of the reasons why we founded this podcast was to keep the conversation going. It was born in COVID. Our podcast was but to keep the conversation going. It was born in COVID. Our podcast was but to keep the conversation going about God and about leadership. And so you know, Dr. Franklin was sort of an obvious choice to have a conversation with about all of this and I hope also to make some of us really commit to in our listening of his wonderful words, that behavior inspiring with integrity.
Bishop Wright:You know others in, you know running to the ends of our own capacity and inviting others to run to the end of their capacity to do good. So, yeah, he's like a perfect choice. And you know he's also just sort of a friend here in Atlanta. He's someone that I can call up and check in with and I think you know that's the other part of moral leadership for all of us is that you know, are there some people let's call them ancestors, wise elders that you know you got on speed dial, that you can check in with when things get gray or you get to important intersections, and so he is one of those people for me.
Melissa:Excellent. Well, I'm glad, and, friends, you can listen to the entire conversation. That was from our 240th episode, dropped on February 7th 2025. So I'd encourage you to listen to the entire thing if you haven't already done so, friends. Our next clip is from Archbishop Hosam Elias Naom, Archbishop of Jerusalem and the Middle East.
Archbishop Hosam Naoum:What verse would speak to me most at this time as solace and as reassurance that God is with us? God will continue to guide us and guard us as we go through these difficult times. Continue to guide us and guard us as we go through these difficult times. And I couldn't find any verse except the one that was my like motto, like that was the theme of my ministry as a bishop, and that is John 10.10. I came that they may have life and have it in abundance. Maybe we can't see abundance at this time. We see scarcity and need and lack of everything, but I think we trust and hope that God is there and God will, with his abundance, shower us with his love and grace and hope so that we may continue to persevere, to have resilience, in order to go through this time and we come out stronger so that we may bring life to others around us
Melissa:And I don't know about you, I just wonder. Sometimes I feel like God shows up in abundance through us. So how might we be? What do you think? What's hitting you?
Bishop Wright:Well, I mean, I'm remembering that podcast and I'm remembering the recording of doing. You know 250 episodes now you know there's only been one podcast that at the end of recording it I was very emotional. You know, he's the Archbishop of Jerusalem in the Middle East, and the hospital that was bombed in Gaza was his hospital. He's had young people killed on the steps of his cathedral. He traces his Christian lineage all the way back to Pentecost In the book of Acts. He is an Israeli citizen and also ethnically a Palestinian, and I just was so struck and am so struck that he still has hope in what looks like a hopeless situation and has looked like a hopeless situation. You know, my entire 61 years and, and here this man with sincere hope and deep faith, uh, gets up every day and tries to remind people there in a terribly conflicted region that they are siblings, uh, and that nobody is going to win.
Bishop Wright:You know, in the way we're presently sort of fighting this war, I was just so deeply struck by that and, you know, I think that, maybe even selfishly, I think that we need people like Archbishop Hosam in our lives because sometimes we encounter hardship et cetera, and though we shouldn't do comparative suffering, I think sometimes it does help us to be a little more other-centered and a little less self-centered. You know what's that wonderful quote from Bob Marley? Every man thinks that his burden is the heaviest, and then you meet someone carrying literally the burden of a region on you know his broad and loving shoulders, and it just sort of jogs you back into reality. And so I guess I walked away from that, back into reality, and so I guess I walked away from that really understanding at a newer level what a gift hope is, because I mean, if he doesn't have hope he can't do what he's doing. I mean, duty won't get you as far and duty won't keep you, as you know, buoyant as far and duty won't keep you, as you know, buoyant.
Bishop Wright:There's some sort of deep hope that is driving him to try to, you know, find a way out of no way.
Bishop Wright:And just think about it for a minute. You know he has faith in God and you know sometimes, if you know, if things don't turn out for us, you know, in a week, a month or a or a year, we're willing to sort of walk away from God or call the whole faith enterprise foolishness, and this man's entire life and not only his entire life, but the entire life of his family story has been wrapped up in a situation that has not been resolved Flashes of peace, flashes of prosperity for everybody, but still living in an apartheid society, and yet he still believes in God. So faith is, you know, belief stretched over time and you know just the embodiment of him. I mean he's just the absolute embodiment of that for me and just, completely, without pretense and guile, absolutely sincere. I was glad to greet him after the podcast. I was glad to greet him in person at our last general convention that we have every three years in Louisville, Kentucky.
Melissa:That was episode 180 that dropped on November 6th 2023. An incredibly timeless and inspiring episode. Our next clip is from state representative James Talarico. I have to say this is one of my very favorite all-time episodes. It was fabulous. Let's give a listen.
State Representative James Talarico:Democracy. To me, as a Christian and an elected official, it's a spiritual practice, and the reason that it's spiritual is that it requires a few things. It requires that we listen to our neighbors. That's kind of fundamental to the idea of all of us living together in peace. It requires that we have kind of the humility to recognize that we don't have all the right answers. It requires that we resolve our conflicts nonviolently and this is probably the hardest part of all. It requires that we give up power when we lose, when we lose at the ballot box. And that again, I really think that the reason I think democracy is so special and the reason I think democracy is a Christian value is because that's directly aligned with the Gospel the idea of giving up power, of self-emptying for others.
Melissa:So that, of course, is from your four-part series of Christian nationalism. Leading up to the 2024 election, you had four big conversations. This one happened to be, my favorite, and so you know he's young. I think he's from Texas, right?
Bishop Wright:Oh yeah, His roots are way deep in Texas. Yeah.
Melissa:So he really knocked my socks off. Bishop, what really spoke out to you most about your conversation with him?
Bishop Wright:Well, again, you know, just a cold call to him. Someone forwarded a video to me of him speaking in a congregation. This young sort of, you know, he's got a fresh face, you know, state representative from Texas and just talking about why Christian nationalism, you know, isn't Christian and I was so struck by his clarity. And also, as a state representative, you know, in in in Texas, this is a guy who is trying to literally, you know, without being antagonistic, is trying to sort of talk to people about how democracy is, is in fact spiritual, it's, it's best practices, and uh, and so I had to get him on. Cold called him and he said yes, and I found out even more that not only is he a state representative, he's actually a seminarian. Uh, actually, you know, pursuing ordination and uh, you know, if you can Google him, James Talarico, spell it like it sounds. It's just an amazing video.
Bishop Wright:But I loved him for his clarity, bright mind, he's a Harvard guy, smart, fella, but his wonderful flourishes about neighborliness and democracy being about, really, at the end of it, about neighborliness, about how we're going to live together and what are the guardrails on that, and then also calling out, I think you know, what I would like to call fraudulent Christianity, which tries to use Jesus and a little bit of his sort, of his appeal to really mobilize greed and exclus and really brutality, and so he's so clear about that and so I think I thought that people really need to hear from somebody who tries to live in both those worlds every day. He's trying to advance you know the state of Texas, the best parts of it trying to take care of the people through policy et cetera, and at the same time has a really palpable and deep connection, you know, to Jesus of Nazareth and trying to live that out and trying to sort of live in both those worlds. So an amazing young fella and I really loved just watching his mind work on these subjects.
Melissa:Our last clip, friends, is from the Right Reverend Mariann Budde, who happens to be the Episcopal Bishop of the Diocese of Washington.
Bishop Mariann Budde:There are, I think, for all of us, these moments that we can look back on and we kind of hang our life story on. That were moments we made a choice. We made a choice to do something or to be a kind of person, and it was conscious and it was a stretch right, it was a stretch and it put us into, I think, a mode of discovery and a mode of vulnerability.
Melissa:So, of course, this is a very relevant message, and you had a conversation with Bishop BuddE well before the prayer service that was held at the National Cathedral. It was after 2020 and after she did a brave thing and she had then since written a book called How We Learned to Be Brave, and of course, I think what happened in 2024 and the prayer service just launched that to be, I think, a bestseller.
Bishop Wright:Yeah, well, I mean, I think it's important to underscore the fact that you know, Bishop Mariann and I have been longtime colleagues and have been thought partners together about lots of things, and you know, and inviting her on the podcast was well in advance of her remarks at the 2025 prayer meeting the President Trump, and so what's interesting to note here is is that she's been working on in her own mind and heart what does it mean to be brave? How does faith inform bravery, and and you know, what are the sort of the constituent parts of what it means to be brave and she laid that out, you know, sort of in the clip. Now, I think, whether you agree with her comments to President Trump and all those assembled, you know, in the Washington National Cathedral or not, I think what's redeemable here and what needs to be thought about by anybody who's intending to be faithful, is is that so what is bravery actually look like? Right, so it may not look like, you know, speaking from a pulpit to a president, um, but what else? What else might it mean, though, for us who don't have a pulpit and don't get to address presidents? Uh, does it look like you cannot argue reasonably that bravery is not a part of what it means to follow Jesus. You cannot argue that. I mean, we're in Easter, here right now, and you know, just a little while ago we were watching Jesus enter Jerusalem on a donkey to literally, to speak a nonverbal message to political power, but nevertheless it was driven by a certain spiritual bravery.
Bishop Wright:So bravery, again and again and again, throughout Scripture, whether Old or New Testament, you know, is present and is a part of what it means to be faithful and what it means to trust God. It has everything to do with bearing witness. And so again, whether we agree with Bishop Buddy or not, the question for us is so how has faith made you brave to go in different directions, to leave the status quo, to risk something, to be vulnerable, simply because you want to be in step with Jesus? And so I think her question for us is alive and it keeps tapping us on the shoulder. What does it mean for me day to day? You know, a lot of us have a spirituality that says let's go along to get along. Other people have a spirituality that says all these amazing words are just fine for Sunday, but by the time we get to the parking lot, let's get back to the world as it is. I mean over and, over, and, over and over again.
Bishop Wright:And so the truth of the matter is, why we get to be Christian now in this country is because some men and some women, some black folks, some white folks, some rich folks, some poor folks, some gay folks and some straight folks took opportunity to be brave and to say no, we can't do this anymore. We've got to do something different. You know, I'm reminded that I couldn't be the Bishop of the Diocese of Atlanta the year I was born, simply because I was born as an African-American and so I didn't get here by myself. Nobody gets to anywhere by themselves. There's a long line of people who have been brave in big and small ways, that have changed norms and made us sort of, I guess, a more perfect union, a better church, et cetera, et cetera, better institutions, better families, better organizations, and so her point is right on the money. What does it mean to be brave?
Melissa:Well, friends, you can listen to the entire conversation. That was episode 154 that dropped and aired on May 5th 2023. Now, bishop, we also have two clips from conversations that we've had.
Bishop Wright:Okay.
Melissa:This first clip is episode 107 that dropped on June 17th 2022. It was called Pride and Juneteenth.
Bishop Wright:Apparently, it delights God that you and I smell like love, that we smell like unity, that we smell like mutual care, that we smell like neighborliness, that we smell like generosity. Apparently, that makes God smile. And so then we have to stand before our loving God, who loves us and loves the world, and explain our hatefulness.
Melissa:First of all, I love that you said we got to smell like love. What does love smell like, Bishop?
Bishop Wright:Well, look, first of all, let me just say this there are truths that prose cannot attend to, so we have to use poetic language. Roses are red, violets are blue, sugar is sweet, and so are you right. And so what I'm trying to say is that, you know, trying to help people to not forget or come away sort of arrested by that that you know, love has a fragrance, unity has a fragrance. What I could have said better is is that they have a frequency. You know, there there is a vibration. Love has a vibration, unity has a vibration, forgiveness has a vibration. I mean, if we wanted to talk sonically, right? So I guess what I'm just trying to say is is that, um, to live that, uh, it's sort of, uh, it emanates something, right, uh it, it sends out something in the world. Communication is 70% nonverbal, which is a daunting thing to think about. So people sort of know something about you before you open up your mouth, and I think this is why Jesus is inviting us to take up these practices like praying for enemy. So I'm already working on my, perhaps my hatred, my indifference, my grudges. I'm already working on that before I even get across a coffee table with you, and hopefully that is to close the gap between wherever I am and real neighborliness, that I'm working on that with you, because then I can sort of be with you in a more authentic space.
Bishop Wright:What I think we've done which probably doesn't smell very good is you know, we're doing these performances it's kind of like cheap perfume. We're doing these performances of unity. You know I call it the church smile. You know that are not genuine. They sort of I'm smiling because I'm not genuine, I'm smiling because I'm supposed to. I'm smiling because I'm Southern and I'm polite here in the American South, etc. And that's okay. But that's just a performance.
Bishop Wright:And yeah, I don't know, some people say fake it till you make it. I don't know. I think Jesus says no, don't fake it till you make it. Do the work in the quietness of your heart and in the quietness of your prayer time. Talk to God about it. You know the Lord's prayer still taps us on the shoulder forgive others as you have been forgiven, you know. So, yeah, that's all I'm trying to say.
Bishop Wright:I'm trying to say that, you know, moving closer to the words we pray on Sunday authentically, you know, sends out into the world, I think, a sound, a fragrance, a vibration, and I think it's palatable. It's not palatable, rather, but it's palpable for people. That's what I'm trying to say. But I guess also what I'm trying to say is is that you know, I don't want to, I don't.
Bishop Wright:You know, some people use that, the notion of hell, you know, sort of as a, as a sort of a whip for people you know here now, and sort of sort of brutalize them with this notion of hell. And if you're not a good boy and a good girl, you're going to be in hell. A good girl, you're going to be in hell. And I don't want to use that ever, because I don't think that's actually in line with a better read of scripture, a deeper read of scripture.
Bishop Wright:What I want to say is that I would be terrified by the opposite is to double down on everything that is not love and then find myself in the presence of a loving God. I think to me that would be. You know, talk about an awkward moment, right, and so there I am. There we are, and we have missed the mark. And not only that, we've not cared much to do anything about missing the mark in our lifetime.
Bishop Wright:And then there we are, standing in front of the whole heavenly host lifetime. And then there we are standing in front of the whole heavenly host, uh, all those redeemed and forgiven, just where forgiveness, forgiveness and love is the currency of the moment. And there we are in front of a loving god and we have to sort of say to that loving god, before even words, I think it'd be, I'd be so, I'd be so brought up short, just to be in the presence of absolute love, right, and have you know, sort of held on to my petty grievances, right, not use the medicine that we have available to us in scripture and every Sunday in worship, I'd feel real petty and real small. Maybe that's the hell, you know. And to try to justify those in the presence of a loving God, that to me would be hell. I don't need fire and brimstone, you know, to feel small at that moment to sort of try to argue God into the way that I decided to live, despite the clear message of his gospel. I think that idea is hell enough for me.
Melissa:That's right, all right, well, last but not least, bishop, from episode 173 that aired on September 22nd 2023, it was called Then and Now.
Bishop Wright:Desmond Tutu asks what do you have that is not gift? And this is what the psalmist is always keeping in front of us what you have, everything you have, your intellect, your trust fund, your good looks, your healthy body, the grit that you had to stay up all night, burn the oil and to work hard all of that, at its core, is gift.
Melissa:So, bishop, for what do you have to be thankful?
Bishop Wright:We don't really have time to hear the list of the things that I have to be thankful for, but this morning I'm giving thanks that nighttime turned into day, that I woke up to hearing Robin sing. There's an owl in my backyard to remind me of the wildness of creation that's just outside my windows. I have a roof over my head. Last night was not my last night. I have a new opportunity with the morning. The azaleas are blooming outside, beauty is surrounding me, my family is healthy. My children are making their own way towards faith. I have good work for my hands. I have great partners in my work, I have a God that I still believe in, that still gives me hope, still inspires me, I still love, after all these years, reading Scripture. I still am animated by Scripture. I mean I could go on and on.
Bishop Wright:I was just at the cathedral our cathedral here in Atlanta, and after worship was over on Easter morning, you know, just greeting the people, just looking in the faces, young and old. I mean it really is a spiritual experience for me. It's just amazing to see people come over the threshold of churches around the globe and still leaning in to hear a word from Jesus about how they should live now, and about who God is and about what hope means and about what real life is and about what is really meaningful in life. I mean that is, I mean I give thanks for that. I give thanks for, you know, some of the bumps in the road and the speed bumps now that have turned into my best teachers about how to live and how to love and how to grow up. So, yeah, I mean I could really go on and on and on about that. I mean it is all gift and I think if you get down into gratitude, you know it's amazing how that changes your spirituality.
Bishop Wright:We move from an obligation, we move from needing to be a good boy or a good girl and trying to win favor and we move deeply down into you know, wow, can you believe this? Isn't this amazing. Who am I to have received all of this? I mean there are people all over the globe who don't have the conveniences that I take for granted. There are people living on less, you know, day-to-day than I spend for coffee. I mean, you know, we're all privileged to some degree and we don't have to feel guilty about that, but we ought to turn those privileges or we're invited in response to all the things given to us, invited to turn all that privilege right into service and neighborliness, invited to turn all that privilege right into service and neighborliness. So you know, I'm glad that somehow that message has gotten to me and it came, you know, through so many people lay and ordain who you know quietly and you know consistently, and sometimes with an edge and sometimes softly. You know, helped me to understand who Jesus is and I'm still learning.
Melissa:Well, thank goodness for that. We're learning a lot, and we know that we still have so much more to learn, and to that end, we have developed a survey for our listeners. We're hoping that you will engage with us to help us understand what you love about For People, what you might like to see or hear or understand as a result of your listening. So, friends, you can gain access to this survey in the link in the episode's description. You can also visit wwwfor. people. digital, and there that's an incredible resource in and of itself. We would highly encourage you to check that out. Bishop, as always, I'm so grateful for you. I'm grateful for the conversations that we get to have. I'm grateful for the ministry of the Diocese of Atlanta and Easton. We love you too, bud.
Bishop Wright:I just want to say thank you is what I want to say lastly is thank you to you, Melissa, you're a phenomenal partner in all of this and Easton you know, in many ways we're here because of Easton, his imagination and his hard work. And so just thank you to all the folks who listen and thank you to you two who have been, you know, inspiration for this good work. So fill out the survey, folks. Let us know what you think so we can make things increasingly more useful to you.
Melissa:Thank you for listening to For People. Be sure to follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Bishop Rob Wright, or by visiting www. forpeople. digital. Please subscribe, leave a review and we'll be back with you next week.