For People with Bishop Rob Wright
For People with Bishop Rob Wright
Suspense
Being in relationship with God is accompanied by suspense. Even in the bible, John 10: 22-30, Jesus is asked "Are you the Messiah? How long will you keep us in suspense?" Faith in God meets in the tensions of certainty and the suspense of the unknown.
In this episode, Melissa and Bishop Wright have a conversation about the suspense that accompanies faith. Bishop Wright offers a perspective that transforms how we view life's uncertainties. "The suspense is not if there's God, the suspense is how will God choose to be God and on what timeline." This distinction invites us to shift from demanding answers to embracing relationship. Listen in for the full conversation.
Read For Faith, the companion devotional.
We have developed a survey to better understand how Bishop Wright's For People Podcast can continue to inspire, engage, and serve our listeners. Please take 5 minutes to complete the survey here.
Suspense is part of life with God, but the good news is, you know, the suspense is not if there's God. The suspense is how will God choose to be God and on what timeline? That intersection sends us back to the way that God has already been God and it sends us back to Scripture to meet men and women in the 66 books of the Bible who trusted God or attempted to trust God in their own time, which is really the essence of faith.
Melissa:Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright. I'm Melissa Rau and this is a conversation inspired by For Faith, a weekly devotion sent out every Friday. You can find a link to this week's Four Faith and a link to subscribe in the episode's description. Now, friends, last week, last episode, for our 250th celebration, we announced the fact that we've developed a survey, and we would so welcome your engagement with that. You can find a link to the survey right in this episode's description and, you know, please take some time, not long, it's maybe two minutes of it, but it'll give us some great feedback for us to consider as we move forward for our next 250 episodes. How's it going, bishop?
Bishop Wright:Fine Thanks. Let me just echo that, Melissa, and just ask you please fill out the survey so that we can know what we're doing well and what we could do better. We'd really appreciate it. So far, we've had a good response from people, but need to get some more responses so we can make some really good decisions going forward. So thank you for listening for 250 episodes and we're looking forward to 250 more.
Melissa:All right. So, Bishop, this week's your Devotion you called Suspense and it's based off of John 10, 22 to 30, really about what's going on, what's happening here. How might we be with God, how might God be in the future, really not knowing what's happening post-resurrection?
Bishop Wright:Right? Well, that sort of takes us right to the center of it, doesn't it? I mean, we love suspense in terms of our entertainment, don't we? I mean, you know we watch series on our streaming services. You know some people are watching White Lotus and all kinds of other things, and there's cliffhangers, and you know we have to sort of hold on and chew our nails until the next installment.
Bishop Wright:And so, you know, I got to the word suspense and usually when I write these things, I use a word from the actual lesson. And so, you know, folks came to Jesus and said how long will you keep us in suspense? You know, are you the Messiah or not, right? And so I mean, I guess you know. And then I just use you know a word as a departure point. And you know the other way I get to it too is that when I see that word in the text and then I think about, you know, the other way I get to it too is is that when I see that word in the text and then I think about you know the innumerable conversations that I've had with people.
Bishop Wright:You know good folks, you know all over the world literally, who want to be faithful and and who have expressed, you know, a real what can we say? A real angst, anxiety, a real sort of even disorientation about God's timeline. Right, so we like God, but we wish God would take some advice from us and show up faster and not have this sort of gray area. And so I guess the case I'm making today is just simply that suspense is part of life with God. But the good news is, you know, the suspense is not if there's God. The suspense is how will God choose to be God and on what timeline? And that sends us, that intersection sends us back to the way that God has already been God, and it sends us back to Scripture, with lots of people before us and we pray, lots of people afterwards who have trusted God over time, which is really the essence of faith.
Melissa:Yeah, well, I love this. Words matter to me, I love words, I love studying them and suspense really got me. But really, at the core of what suspense is the suspense is just I don't know what's going to happen, right, right. And so where is the line between being comfortable with suspense and trusting God?
Bishop Wright:Yeah, so not to be too cheeky, right, because there are lots of people who struggle, lots of really decent people, good people, people who want to be faithful, who struggle, who struggle, lots of really decent people, good people, people who want to be faithful, who struggle. And so I think what might help is is that you know, again and again and again in scripture, we have to get down into the who rather than the what and the when right, and so it's the who that gives us buoyancy, you know in. You know in you know, these times where we might sink or we might fall into despair or even be discouraged, it's the who. Again and again, the Bible talks about who God is, who God has been to our ancestors, and so it's the who that helps us to make our way through the suspense times, through the times where it's not absolutely clear. And here we are, times where it's not absolutely clear, and here we are, you know, just in still an Easter right. It's to who. So who is this God who decided that crucifixion couldn't hold God back? Who is this God who decided that this God was not going to be submitted to by the religious or the political authorities, but this God had God's own mind and decided to raise Jesus from the dead. Who is this God who, in 50 days, will give an unusual power to God's church and give us the Holy Spirit and bind us together? You know so, I guess it's the who, who, who, right? That keeps us. You know so, when we get to the when and the what, and even the how and the how long, that can really get discouraging. And so what I always say is is that what you need is an extra scoop of who? So who is God to you? Who is God to you really is? I mean so again, the Psalms.
Bishop Wright:Look at the Psalms again. You know they say who God is, who God is, who God is, and it's even interesting that in in some and it almost feels a bit bipolar and I say that I use that term with lots of respect, having family members and friends who struggle with that but in one part of the psalm it is oh man, I'm catching hell. Oh man, life is bad. Oh man, where is God? And then you can almost feel the psalmist begin to minister to his or herself and then say and remember who God has been, who God has been, who God has been, and so what helps us to fend off. You know, the legitimate part of disorientation in our life with God, suspense even with God is who God has been right, because who God has been is who God will be right.
Bishop Wright:So we say that God has not changed and God has not changed. And God is, you know, changed less. It's us who do all the sort of capitulation and, you know, sort of moving around, but God is our constant, and so what we want to do is hold on. It's interesting in this gospel lesson, which is John 10, jesus said look, I've already told you that I'm the Messiah right. It's just in this gospel lesson, which is John 10, jesus said look, I've already told you that I'm the Messiah right, it's just that you don't believe. So here again, jesus comes and is the constant God in flesh, and it's our vacillations, and so we're projecting on the Jesus right. And Jesus said no man, I'm clear who I am, I'm doing the thing right. Just come along, believe what I've already told you. Yeah, I think that's where the joy for us is who has God been? Who is God? So you need another dose of who.
Melissa:All right, come on, let's do that. So, bishop, I don't know if I think we might have talked about this, but I'm not sure if we talked specifically about the Conclave did we? Did you see the movie?
Bishop Wright:Oh, I did yeah, for sure, I just saw it because I thought, for sure, I loved it.
Melissa:I just saw it because I thought I'd be triggered by it, and it was amazingly beautiful. Well, I decided I was going to watch it in preparation for what's actually going on, and one of the things we haven't talked about on the podcast is the death of Pope Francis.
Bishop Wright:Yeah.
Melissa:You know, suspense, not knowing what's going to happen, Sure, and I love this. The quote and I'm going to get it wrong, but the quote from the movie is something about certainty being like a terrible, terrible thing. Yeah, right, so how do we keep and hold in one hand the need to be okay with suspense versus being so certain and so sure that? It doesn't leave room for faith.
Bishop Wright:Well, I mean, you know what we're trying to articulate is a squidgy thing. We're trying to articulate a life of tension. So we want to live in the tension of faith. That's the best part, right. But then at the same time, we're human and fallible, and so, you know, the emotional, psychic, spiritual, physical exertion of living in that tension overwhelms us, and then we sort of settle for what I call candy-coated certitudes or, you know, frail formulas that appear certain, and you know this is when the church stops being the church and starts becoming some other kind of organization.
Bishop Wright:You know, if you look back to, you know the Old Testament, you know God frees the Hebrew slaves, moves them out into freedom, and part of freedom is faith, and that is trusting God to rain down manna from heaven. You know water from a rock to rain down manna from heaven. You know water from a rock. You know this new way to be. And what they do pretty fast, you know this is why you have to pay attention to those stories what they do pretty fast is begin to engineer for themselves a God that they prefer, which is Moses is up in the mountain. We don't know when Moses is coming about. You know suspense. What the hell is Moses doing up there? Why the hell did they bring us out here, at least in Egypt? Right, we had three hots and a cot. Right, we had three hot meals and somewhere to sleep, even though we had been in slavery, chattel slavery, for 400 years. All of a sudden, just in a brief slice of the responsibility of freedom, we say, ah, slavery wasn't so bad. Right, because slavery had certain certitudes, right. And so what we prove in that story is that we would rather be dogs on a leash than to follow God into God's freedom. What it costs to follow God into God's freedom is faith. And what faith costs is not knowing always how and when and what, but knowing who. Right.
Bishop Wright:So in Conclave they're just trying to articulate, you know, this human organization the Catholic Church in this instance, and all churches and every believer you know, sort of steering us away from cheaper certainties and half certainties, because when you get into those kinds of certainties, idolatry is not very far away, right, idolatry is really close to certainty, whether it be a financial certainty, whether it be, you know, organizational kinds of certainty Now I'm not talking about. You know that we should always sort of not know where our next dollar is coming from and all those sorts of things. But there is a journey called faith, described in Scripture, and we were told in Scripture that we can only please God by having faith. And what we decide to do sometimes is to choose our own way, our own wisdom, our own mind, and depart from that pathway. And then we get some things, and then you know, there's God tapping us on the shoulder to say is that all you wanted? That was it. There's so much more I could show you, and so I think this is the invitation to us now, right?
Bishop Wright:So a lot of us have done a pretty good job in life. We've achieved some things. So a lot of us have done a pretty good job in life. We've achieved some things, et cetera. And some of us have been reflective and said, wow, this is all fine and I'm grateful for all the blessings of life. But what would radical faithfulness look like now? What do I need to let go of now to really enjoy a life that I can't conjure up for myself? That's faith, and it has a cost, and so what we try to do is we try to take all the risk out of following God, and God is like well, you know. Good luck with that. That's not the genuine article.
Melissa:Okay, so is there something of which we might be certain?
Bishop Wright:Yeah, yeah, I think what we can say is that the universe has a benevolent mind and we call it God. Look, I was in Charleston, south Carolina, the other day and my wife had flown up and I did a meeting and she flew back and I stayed a couple extra days, devices, and so I hung out there and so I had dinner by myself, just walked into a restaurant, had dinner, sat down at a bar and just was going to have have some I have a meal right there and inevitably, you know, just ended up in a conversation with a couple and, uh, you know, as soon as I tell them what I do for a living, you know it's off to the races, man, you know it's like. It's like either they want to sort of punish me for all the things that faith didn't deliver to them, or a religious community didn't deliver to them, or they're like okay, we got somebody hostage here now.
Bishop Wright:That's right, give me some, tell me some stuff, right, and and these were really a guy and a gal, really sweet people, you know, high, high functioning professionals. One guy owned a company business owner and the lady was a registered nurse of law of long standing, really beautiful people. And you know, and this guy, you know, he was a recovering Catholic, I think he would say, and he was just like, hey, man, you know what, what's the deal here? What's the real deal, what's the bottom line? By the way, I get that kind of question a lot from high-functioning business people. They're like, okay, you know what is cake and what is icing, you know, and they want the bishop to tell them.
Bishop Wright:And so I said, look, you want to know what the Bible is. I said, look, the Bible is a lot of things, right, the right. The Bible is hyperbole, the Bible is poetry, the Bible is history, the Bible falls prey to misogyny and, you know, colonial narratives, it does all kinds of things, I said. But to him I said but look, what we can be certain of, I think, is that what everybody's trying to articulate, not only the Christians, but faith communities all over the world, spiritual communities all over the world. They're trying to point to something that we somehow know is true, but words fail us in describing it and we call that God right. And so I think that that's one of the things that we can be certain of Somehow this universe is fashioned and somehow, you know people, you know generation, millennia of people have tried to say, hey, there's something to this thing. We live on a ball, exactly the right distance from the sun, you know, made of water, in the middle of a black sky, and we're just one universe and galaxy of innumerable universes and galaxies. And somehow, somehow, here we are right, trying to point, and all of our discovery, all of our beautiful scientific work, is only discovering what already exists, the elements of which you know already exist, that we had nothing to do with in creating. So, yeah, I think we can be certain that the universe has a benevolent mind, even loving.
Bishop Wright:I believe that the Bible is right, that God is love. I believe love is far beyond a sentiment, you know, some kind of syrupy thing. I think we can rest in that, and then I think then we have to figure out how we can be joyful in the unlikely nature of our existence, I mean the fact that you and I are here right now. You know, mathematically doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense that we somehow got to the egg and then we somehow made it through gestation, and then you know on and on and on and on. I mean it doesn't make any sense. And so I told this couple, I said so.
Bishop Wright:After all of that I said, look, um, I think the message at base is because we're it is so unlikely that we're here, right, we ought to have a lot more joy than we have, right? So, on focusing on, you know, all the prickly stuff and I get it maybe a focus on how radically we are provided for. We have air, we have earth, we have sky, we have water, we have each other. Why don't we sort of run in that direction? Maybe Jesus is saying that to the folks who are in suspense. I get your suspense about some things, but what about the bedrock of the whole thing? And that is here I am, god, up close. Isn't it ironic that Jesus was standing within spitting distance of them? And here they are, you know, sort of wondering where and I think sometimes that's a great parable for us there's so much in front of us right now that demonstrate for us the radical provision of God, and yet somehow we are not buoyed by that.
Melissa:All right. So one final question then, Bishop. I've got burning in me. It is what's going to happen next.
Bishop Wright:Well, I heard a guy say this. He said look, people are asking that question a lot in politics nowadays, right? So? And here's what he said. He said you know, we don't know, and I think that has integrity to say we don't know, right? So and here's what he said. He said you know, we don't know, and I think that has integrity to say we don't know, right. But what he said and I thought this was important he said but what we have to do is to not lose our soul, and so there is no suspense about what Jesus called us to say and do and be with one another. There's no suspense, Absolutely crystal clear. Love God, love neighbor. Crystal clear, no suspense, right. So what we've got to do is not capitulate and not collude, right, and to be ourselves, and ourselves are followers of Jesus, right God up close, and I think that is how we make our way through all the gray areas of life.
Melissa:Bishop, as always thank you. And thank you, listeners, for tuning into For People. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Bishop Rob Wright, or by visiting www. forpeople. digital. Please subscribe, leave a review, don't forget to fill out your survey and we'll be back with you next week.