Foretaste

Love sounds simple until you try to practice it with someone who won’t return it, someone who betrays you, or someone whose decisions harm people you care about. That’s where Dorothy Day’s language hits with force: “God is love,” and love doesn’t just soothe fear, it casts fear out. 

In this episode, Melissa and Bishop Wright use Day’s quote as a doorway into a grounded conversation on Christian love, faith and leadership, and what it means to follow Jesus when the world feels tense, divided, and exhausted.  They discuss the uncomfortable gap between sentimental love and what we actually deliver to each other. Bishop Wright names the cost of love that isn’t contingent on someone else’s goodness, gratitude, or agreement and why that kind of love often feels unrequited. They dig into the difference between belief and opinion: belief is rooted in being beloved by God, then living like it. That includes the hard questions, like how to hold dignity and respect for people you deeply disagree with while still working against policies and behaviors that harm others. Listen in for the full conversation.

Read For Faith, the companion devotional.

Transcript

Cold Open On Soul Power

Bishop Wright 0:00

This godly love is really about soul power. So we have a soul power to exert love in situations that are anything but loving because we realize, those of us who are following, trying to walk towards Jesus in this regard, we realize that this is really our ultimate allegiance, and we live for our ultimate allegiance. We have a peace and a joy that the world can't give. And so that's why we do it. We do it because we realize there's really no other way.

Melissa 0:40

Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright. I'm Melissa Rau, your host, and this is a conversation inspired by For Faith, a weekly devotion sent out every Friday. You can find a link to this week's For Faith and a link to subscribe in the episode's description. Good morning, Bishop.

Bishop Wright 0:57

Good morning.

Melissa 0:58

This week's devotion you named Foretaste based off of a quote from Dorothy Day. You want to take it away?

Bishop Wright 1:05

Sure. I'm entitling this fore taste based on the word that she uses in this quote. This is what she says. What else is the world interested in? What else do we all want, each one of us, except to love and be loved in our families, in our work, in all our relationships? God is love. Love casts out fear. Even the most ardent revolutionist seeking to change the world, to overturn the tables of the money changers, is trying to make a world where it is easier for people to love, to stand in relationship with each other in love. We all want with all our hearts to be loved and to love and not just in the families, but to look upon all as mothers and sisters, brothers and children. It is when we love the most intensely and the most humanly that we recognize how tepid is our love for others. The keenness and intensity of love brings with it suffering, of course, but joy too, because it is a foretaste of heaven.

Melissa 2:18

So, Bishop, why this quote and why now?

Bishop Wright 2:22

Yeah, I mean, one of the things that we try to do on this podcast, whether I'm writing the meditations or whether I'm selecting um, you know, thought partners uh from the past or even from the present, I'm I'm trying to you use this great archive uh that's available to us, the Bible and those who think about those things, so that we are supported and encouraged, and maybe we even get some meaning and some insight into what does it mean to be a follower of Jesus right now? And so I was thinking about where we are in the nation right now. I was thinking about uh, as I often do, what does it mean to be a follower of Jesus in the 21st century? Uh what is the work, uh, you know, simply put. And uh and I came across this wonderful quote by Dorothy Day. Um, and you know, what I love about her uh is that uh she's real clear, and uh and she's not afraid to name the gaps uh between sentimentality and what we actually deliver one to the other. Uh I like that um she and others that I've selected, Howard Thurman, Dr. King, and on and on and on, um they know the human condition well. Um they they know our blind spots, they know our shadows, and at the same time, uh it doesn't make them despair. Um they are able, having seen all the warts of us, they are able to also hold intention with that, the wonder of us, and the wonder that is possible uh uh for us to actually create and co-create with God. So I guess that's that's why Dorothy Day, and I guess that's why now she takes us right down to the Bible. She says, God is love, not God loves, not as God is some sort of affable, cosmic sort of entity. But in fact, God is love, and that love uh casts out that the Bible uses those words, but we could also say displaces because of its density, because of its adaptation, it actually displaces fear. And that's where she's calling us. And I think that's exactly where we need to be now. The war rages on in the Middle East. Um, you know, economic pressures increase for the least of us. Um people live on the margins, people are being forced to the margins because they're one paycheck away or one health emergency away. And uh and I think uh Dorothy Day Day's word to us about love and it being practical, not sentimental, I think is always the topic for us.

The Cost Of Unrequited Love

Melissa 4:59

You know, you talked about that's the work to do. And the thing that really jumped out at me was I think the the penultimate sentence where she said, it's when we love the most intensely and most human humanly that we can recognize how tepid is our love for others. And so therein lies the work, I think. Yes. So what how what do we do to convert that tepid and turn the heat up?

Bishop Wright 5:24

Well, I mean, you know, I've been talking about for some time now, you know, what is ultimate allegiance, you know, and I and I think, you know, uh I think what what happens is that we we actually short circuit the things that Jesus would actually have us to do and be because we know what the cost is. Right. And and so Dorothy also names that. She names that if you're going to be uh, you know, moving in the direction of Jesus' love, empowered, equipped by Jesus' love, uh, which is not contingent on other people's love, then that's going to cause suffering because that love will be unrequited to a large degree. You'll be loving because you're joining Jesus in his purpose, but you'll be, and part of Jesus' purpose was to love the unlovable, right? By by earthly terms. And so a lot of this work will be unrequited. A lot of this love will have to be self-directed. Um, and so that takes uh an incredible level of maturity. Um, and and the truth of the matter is that most of us find ourselves in a ping pong match with people that we say we love. Um, we don't want to be too far out in front. We want to sort of stay together. Um, we we want to stay in as as much reciprocity as we can. And certainly I understand that. I'm not above that. I want that too. I want to feel loved, even as I love. But but this love that Jesus does, the foot washing of people uh who are going to betray him and deny him, um, you know, connecting with people who otherwise uh would do him harm and extending uh a hand, et cetera, et cetera. You know, this is a love that we don't bump into often. Um, but when we do, when human beings do decide to be the conduit for that, it's amazing the effect that it has on the world. And we could go down the list of those. One of the reasons we're still talking about Dorothy Day is because she was that person. She didn't only talk it, she walked it and uh and found herself among people she otherwise wouldn't be a part of, you know, and and stayed connected to the poor and and pushed and uh and all those sorts of things. So what drove that, right, is this idea of trying to deliver God's love.

Melissa 8:00

So delivering God's love, uh you know, it sounds like a belief system. I think one of the things that I've realized is that a number of people, myself included, for a time, have gotten the words confused and I have conflated the word belief with opinion.

Bishop Wright 8:17

Oh yeah.

Melissa 8:18

And so how do we believe, which is rooted in being beloved and leaning into that, where our beliefs actually drive our actions or behavior? How do I love Donald Trump when I disagree with him so vehemently?

Church As Medicine For Sinners

Bishop Wright 8:38

Yeah. Well, I think, well, you name the president. I think we what we have to remember, and I think this is the complicated part about God's love, is we have to remember that God loves those people that we struggle to love. Right? And so, and whether we find people loathsome or not, you know, they are made in God's image as well. Though, though the way they they live their lives and the choices that they make and perhaps the values that they display are perpendicular to what we think is is is the best or even uh we think is godly. So therein lies the rub, right? And so that's what I meant about not being contingent. So uh, you know, the Bible even says, you know, so if you love those who love you, you know, what what is it, you know, what is good is it to you, right? In other words, yeah, you just completed a circle, right? And so everybody's happy and we've all been nice to each other. And that is that the Bible tells us, and Dorothy Day is pointing to, that is somehow not the genuine article of Christian love. Christian love is this other kind of love that is uh it is thermostat, as Dr. King would say, and not thermometer. Um, it doesn't simply just tell the temperature, it actually sets the temperature. And so it and so, you know, this godly love is really about soul power. So we have a soul power to exert love in situations that are anything but loving, because we realize, those of us who are following, trying to walk towards Jesus in this regard, we realize that this is really our ultimate allegiance, and and and we live for our ultimate allegiance. We have a peace and a joy that the world can't give. Um, and so that's why we do it. We do it because we realize there's really no other way. We do it because we realize this is the ultimate reality. And all these nasty things that we do to each other and we have done to each other for millennia really uh are uh the worst of us, our our ego, our reptilian brain, um, uh not our evolved self. Um and and you know, the church is not exempt. And, you know, that's why I don't believe in a church for perfect people or or even a church where we avoid uh the warts and only focus on the wonders. I believe in church being a hospital for sinners. Uh I believe in a church being medicine uh uh for those of us uh who uh have the ailments uh of uh of what it means to be human, all those things that diminish, diminish us and divide us. Uh, you know, I always uh I like to say that sometimes I'm really jealous of the AA community, Alcoholics Anonymous, because their starting place and the church's starting place are two different starting places. They come in the room and say, Hey, I'm Rob and I'm an alcoholic. Now I'm not in recovery, but I just love that they say that right out of the gate. Uh, and then and then we begin to work with that reality in the room. Uh, I think that the church would be better off if we started off saying, hi, I'm Rob. I missed the mark so tragically this last week. Uh, I'm a sinner, uh, but I'm not a hopeless sinner. I'm a redeemed sinner. And uh, you know, I am being restored even as I fall down. And isn't that wonderful about the grace of who God, the grace that God extends to us? So, so Dorothy is is saying not only this is the this is the grid of it, this is the Monday through Sunday of it, she's also saying, yeah, when in the ways that we do this, we we we embody this unconditional love, it is a foretaste uh of when there will be nothing but love. She says, the foretaste of heaven, when that is the ultimate reality. So whether we're thinking about, you know, some sort of pie in the sky, everybody's got shoes, the streets are made of gold, you know, there's milk and honey flowing, you know, all those poetic ways to try to talk about it. Uh, there is an ultimate reality that we believe in that that we can barely describe. We just know that it is a place where there's no sickness, no sorrow, no sign of any kind, no divisions, no republican section, no democratic section of heaven, no gay, no straight, no white, no black, no rich, no poor. There is an ultimate reality up ahead where we'll be all reunited uh and see one another face to face as well as we see the divine face to face. And so Dorothy Day is saying, you know, in as much as we can do this God love now, give ourselves this God love now, we are both experiencing and releasing a foretaste of heaven. And think about that. So, you know, just think about it implicit in that, what the mandate is. It is to find yourself in the midst of hell, but giving a little bit of heaven. I mean, just think about, I mean, you know, we started off as kids, we wanted to wear what everybody wore and carry the lunchbox. I'm dating myself, carry the lunchbox that everybody carried and wear the sneakers that everybody wants. I mean, that's a human thing, right? We are porous. All right, we are porous. But here, here's Jesus, uh, and now uh you know through the lips of Dorothy Day saying, I want, there's a mandate to difference if you're gonna follow me. And so you're gonna walk into a place and not worry about looking like them, talking like them, speaking like them, dressing like them. You're going to love uh Walter Bergman wrote a book called Mandate to Difference. That's the mandate to difference, uh, that we would be that, uh, even as we are ourselves missing the mark.

Melissa 13:58

Okay, so yes and yes and so we I mentioned our president, and I know that if he and I were in the same room, I would be all about honor, dignity, yeah, respect, uh human to human.

Bishop Wright 14:13

Yes.

Melissa 14:14

It's really the decisions he's making who is, and then the people that I know and love are being so negatively impacting or impacted by them. I'm not sure. So I can be that. I'm just not sure how it translates into real life action when someone else's decisions, I can see their humanity and dignity and you know, the godliness of them in them. And when their actions or behavior really negatively impact and sometimes worse, kill or harm, harm or kill other people. I don't know how to be or what to do about that.

Bishop Wright 14:52

Well, you know, the here's the thing about it. I mean, I I think that um as much as we find ourselves in close quarters with people that we struggle to love, I think we can give them the dignity and honor and respect that they are due, uh, which is far beyond any office they hold. It is because they are a beloved child of God. I think we start there. But it's interesting that that we have these kinds of conversations because um that doesn't prevent me from shaking anybody's hand, being with anybody, anybody, asserting with respect uh and inviting them to think about things and assuring them that, hey, you know, uh uh sir or madam, I'm praying for you. Um and then uh walking out of that meeting and and giving yourself to the change you want to see in the world. So so I'm you know, uh again, our uh our lighthouse in this regard, I think, is is are are the saints that we saw in the civil rights movement. I mean, you know, one of the things that's missing from Dr. King's beautiful body of work as he lobbied uh for civil rights and human rights and human dignity and against war is we never saw him get stuck in the cul-de-sac of personal criticism. Because the stakes are higher than that. The stakes are higher than that. So what worries me, and I'm not saying this about you, but uh because I think you're what you what you said takes a lot of us right to the intersection of where we're living. But uh, but I think we've gotta we've gotta be concerned about being paralyzed in critiquing and reactivity based on any individual. I mean, think about it, you know, in Jesus's, all of Jesus' words, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, such that they're all captured. He's not haranguing about anybody, uh, any emperor, uh, any governor. I mean, they just get named. Um, I think what he's doing is he's walking around Galilee, uh, making God known. And and so, you know, I think, I think, I think this brings us to this one place, and I think this is where people really need to hear this part. What can you control today? I don't think that God holds me accountable for changing Washington. And I don't think that God holds me accountable for changing Wall Street or or or any other sort of macro sort of thing. I I happen to be uh elected and serve uh and very privileged to serve as the bishop of the Diocese of Atlanta. And so uh what I can control is what I can control, and I'm duty bound, uh, if my ultimate allegiance is to the love of Jesus, I'm duty bound to try to make that known in this way as in the best way I can, knowing that I will fall short, knowing that I need to continue to grow in capacity, et cetera, et cetera. But that's all I can control. I I live at my address, I can control to some degree uh how I deliver that in this place, uh, et cetera. So I I guess what I don't want, I don't want people to get paralyzed by the 24-hour news cycle. As seductive as it is, and and because what that ends up leading us to is be overwhelming, you know, being paralyzed, and ultimately compassion fatigue. And what I what I want for us is to decide today, what where am I going to be today? What do I have control over today? And then what do I care most about? And how did I link those two things up today, knowing that I haven't done it all today, and tomorrow's another day. And so we thank God for bringing us to the conclusion of a day when the evening comes, and then in the morning we thank God for the strength to rise to greet the day and to be able to be privileged to be able to do the work. So that may not that may sound like not an answer, but I think that's practical is where we have to stay. Jesus was a local phenomena. We we can't forget that. He was a local phenomena, he made a difference in Galilee, right? To the people on the edges. And that is who we have to be, I think.

Melissa 18:50

And therein lies our joy.

Bishop Wright 18:52

Yeah, that's the joy.

Closing And How To Connect

Melissa 18:54

Excellent. Bishop, thank you so much. And listeners, thank you for tuning in to For People. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Bishop Rob Wright, or by visiting www.forpeople.digital. Please subscribe, leave a review, and we'll be back with you next week.