Dutch and his daughter, Hannah, discuss how believers can cultivate trust in their walk with God and learn to live from peace - even during life’s storms. These lessons are vital for all Believers, but are especially relevant today as we navigate the current state of chaos, fear, and uncertainty in the world from COVID-19.
Dutch and his daughter, Hannah, discuss how believers can cultivate trust in their walk with God and learn to live from peace - even during life’s storms. These lessons are vital for all Believers, but are especially relevant today as we navigate the current state of chaos, fear, and uncertainty in the world from COVID-19.
Hannah: 0:13
I'm Hannah, one of Dutch's daughters. And for today's podcast, I decided I wanted to hijack this episode a little bit because I wanted to have a conversation with my dad about the current state of affairs around the world today.
Dutch: 0:24
Let me just say before she goes any farther. The three ladies in my life have been hijacking my plans for 30 years, go right ahead Hannah.
Hannah: 0:34
So business as usual then. I wanted to have a conversation with you today about the current state of affairs around the world because at the time we're recording this, the Coronavirus or COVID-19 is running through the world like a freaking tsunami, and it's brought waves of panic, fear, anxiety, greed, and uncertainty. But at the same time, we've seen humanity rally together and respond with counter waves of kindness, neighborly love, hope. So I wanted to have a conversation with you today about all of this and kind of ask some questions like, "No matter what we see going on around us, is it time to just have blind trust in the sovereignty of God?". "Is this a time where we as humanity, figuratively hold hands and saying he's got the whole world in his hands?". Or is there some possible mixture of both reality and hope that's possible in times like this? So let's kick it off with that question of just, what are you thinking? How do you see it? Because the world's in a little bit of chaos. And how do we have trust, have faith, have hope in times like this that's actually grounded in reality?
Dutch: 1:45
Well, it's just those are great questions and you know that the challenge for me in answering a question like that is to try not to get too theological. Because I know that's not what people want in a time like this. It's never been what you wanted. Um, I think everything goes back to trust if we're going to walk in peace through a situation like this, but back to faith and trust. I don't want that to be just a religious answer.
Hannah: 2:19
Yeah.
Dutch: 2:20
How do we do that is the question.
Hannah: 2:22
Exactly.
Dutch: 2:22
But let me still start there, because any time I'm going through a difficult situation, the key to moving through that in peace is to trust God's heart toward me and trust his plans for me. You know he says in the word, I know the plans I have for you for good and not evil. To give you a future and a hope, And so you know, if I can get myself focused on him and his promise in any situation, then I'm positioned now to start functioning and responding in peace.
Hannah: 3:05
Okay.
Dutch: 3:06
If I don't really start there, then there's too much uncertainty.
Hannah: 3:13
Yeah.
Dutch: 3:13
My certainty comes from my hope in his heart and my trust in his heart toward me. So that's where I have to start.
Hannah: 3:20
And you also then have to start on if that's going to lead to peace, you have to know that his heart towards you is good and kind.
Dutch: 3:27
Right. You do. And so I think you know, this is like any trust relationship or any less say any relationship. If there is going to be trust in it, it comes through time and through walking together. Uh, and yet I don't think the only way to have trust in God in a situation like this is when you've walked with him for years. You have a person that met Jesus yesterday that could have peace through this.
Hannah: 3:58
Yeah, yeah.
Dutch: 3:58
So how do we tap into that is the better question, because even though we have to trust him, you don't have to have a long term relationship with Lord in order to be able to trust him. No, that would mean if that were true, the person that was saved yesterday couldn't trust him until they walked with him for a year or two. But I think one of the things that people don't realize that in our relationship with Lord, uh, because he dwells in me now he's not having to work through my brain. And not just through my brain. Obviously, we use our brains. But he's not just having to work through my brain and he's not having to just work through what he's taught me. He is imparting to me from within.
Hannah: 4:51
That's good.
Dutch: 4:52
So there's a Philippians 4: 13 verse that everybody knows really well. I mean, not everybody, but you do. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me"
Hannah: 5:02
Yeah.
Dutch: 5:02
But the amplified Bible says, one of the phrases in that verse says, "through Him who infuses inner strength into me."
Hannah: 5:12
Yeah, that's good.
Dutch: 5:13
One of the fruits of the Holy Spirit is peace.
Hannah: 5:18
Yeah.
Dutch: 5:18
So what I have to begin to tap into is Hey, wait a minute. I don't have to get enough understanding of the Bible to have peace. I have to tap into my connection with him to have peace.
Hannah: 5:33
Okay.
Dutch: 5:33
One of the concepts in the Old Testament is waiting on the Lord. That's such a vague religious thing.
Hannah: 5:42
Yeah, what does that mean?
Dutch: 5:44
And in our terminology, in our world, today, waiting on somebody means one of two things. Basically, you're either serving them or you're waiting for somebody to do something or show up. But in old Testament connotation and words, it's much more than that. And one of them, there are actually 5 different words for wait in Hebrew, and one of them means to "become one with". It's actually the word for a braid is in braiding hair or rope.
Hannah: 6:18
Tied together.
Dutch: 6:20
Mhm, tied together. So, Isaiah 40 says they that wait on the Lord gain new strength. Well, you could translate that-those who are braided together with him, gain new strength. Well, that's what happens in a braid.
Hannah: 6:33
Yeah.
Dutch: 6:33
You make a rope, the strands add strength to the other, and the strength is multiplied. So the point is as we worship, as we wait on him, meditate in His word and spend time with him, There is an oneness that comes. It's this infusing of strength. So I would say to people, you don't have to earn peace and you don't have to work for years to get a relationship with God that will bring you peace. But you do have to spend some time with him so that, that which is inside of you, he can begin to draw because it comes from his presence. So the psalmist would wait on the Lord in worship and in meditation so that God's strength could be infused into him and he could begin to walk it out. I would say to a Christian when they're going through a time like this, get to spend some time with Lord. You're not going to walk in peace if all you do is watch the news. You're not going to walk in peace if all you do is think about what's happening and wonder what's happening.
Hannah: 7:42
For sure.
Dutch: 7:42
But if you will take some time every day and just spend it with the Lord, put on some worship or whatever ministers do you. Maybe a song or two, some scriptures that are meaningful to you and just begin to hang out with him. What will happen is, he will infuse strength into you and you'll find yourself becoming one with him and his thoughts and his emotions. And he's not worried about anything.
Hannah: 8:15
Yeah.
Dutch: 8:16
So you won't be either. You'll have peace. So I think the whole thing goes back to relationship. It goes back to spending time with him. People that don't want to do that, they're just on their own because he's not going to give us that peace and do these things for us when we don't follow his instructions.
Hannah: 8:40
Okay, so part of what I hear you saying is almost when I think about it, it almost to me sounds like there are different layers of processing so you can have a still mind, and that's a certain level of peace. But It's very fragile and temporary to the next bit of bad news. But one of the things you said a couple of times was coming from within. So from a spirit level, a deeper level, there's a steadiness that we have to learn how to tap into that is spirit to spirit. You've said things like worship. Read the Scripture. But how do we practice consistently making it part of our lives? Getting from the head layer of anxiety or panic /worry/ fear to us deeper within the spirit level that comes from connection and presence. What are some of the stops on that journey other than just Oh, you need more time in worship? Oh, you just need to read more Scripture. How do we cultivate habit with that?
Dutch: 9:43
Well, now you're moving into a much more practical aspect of this, and I think it's really no different than honestly any discipline. I have to make certain decisions. I have to make some plans and for me came to a point where in my life when I said, I'm going to rearrange my day and start building, and that's a good word. Building into it time with Lord so that I can build my relationship with him.
Hannah: 10:22
Yeah.
Dutch: 10:22
And I don't think it's even spiritual. You could do that around studies. You can do it around... I don't know. I mean, building relationship with somebody, another person. It doesn't have to be spiritual. You just lay out some practical plans where you say this time every day. And for most people, it needs to be a time in the morning or late at night, where the business of the day is not crowding in. And you say I'm going to start my day with some time with Lord. And for 15 minutes or an hour, I'm gonna start with some worship. I'm going to think about him. I'm going to talk to him, or I'm going to end my day with that. Or on my lunch break, I'm going to go for a walk for 30 minutes of my break and I'm going to hang out with him. I think sometimes we don't make our spiritual life practical enough. You're never gonna get that. You're never gonna move into peace, faith, hearing/learning the voice of God by going to church once a week on Sunday morning. It's just not going to happen. You have to build him into your life, into your day. No two people are going to form a meaningful relationship and end up getting married and having a wonderful life by spinning an hour a week together.
Hannah: 11:49
Right.
Dutch: 11:50
Something is there that draws them together. They start building on that, and if it's really meaningful, they're gonna start doing it regularly, as often as they can and they're gonna plan. They're gonna put it on the calendar. They're gonna set some other things aside. And I think we don't make our walk with God practical enough. We just have to build time into our day for him. And if we're not going to do that, they're going to be many things he wants to do for us that he's not able to do because we're not tapping into that united heart with him, that can allow him to infuse who he is into us on a daily basis.
Hannah: 12:39
Yeah, And I think wanting to do it and cultivating that connection in part goes back to the very beginning of what you said of trusting his heart for you. Because you're not going to cultivate a connection with someone and intentionally build a relationship with them if you don't think they care about you or if you don't enjoy being with them. Or if all you get from them is negativity or what you're doing wrong. So you have to have that shift in perspective with the Lord that he actually is for you. His plans for you are actually good. His intention for you is kindness. He doesn't approach you with a rod of correction every single time you talk.
Dutch: 13:19
You're absolutely right. And I think we have to approach it in two ways. We have to know that I'm gonna have to spend time with him to get to that point, but that he also is willing to impart to me through his strength, from the very beginning, a revelation of who he is that will give me the motivation to build from there.
Hannah: 13:48
Yeah, that's good. So it's like his grace is what enables you to even do it in the first place.
Dutch: 13:51
Absolutely. And he opens my eyes to who he is. There are some people that they will never start this journey or they haven't started it because they don't believe what you just said. They don't think he wants a personal relationship with them. They don't know if they believe of the story of Jesus in the gospel or whatever. They're not going to start this journey. But I think for a believer who wants to begin this trust relational journey with him, the place to start is, especially if they have some wounds or some areas of their life where they're not convinced of God's goodness or that he wants this with them. I think you should ask him to bring revelation to you to reveal to you his heart that wants you. And you say I need that reality. I need to be able to believe that.
Hannah: 14:48
For sure.
Dutch: 14:49
Something has happened to me and I'm stuck. I can't really believe that you want this. Would you help me get past that? Because if I could ever believe that, I would do this. So I think it's two things. I think we're going to have to pay the price. But I think God is always willing to give us initial breakthrough to say, Hey, I love you, I want you, I'm here for you and give it to us in enough of a revelation that will enable me to begin to move forward. Then I'll have to build on that because that's what you do again in any relationship you build on it.
Hannah: 15:27
Yeah, so understanding that he's good is a vital piece to start with. Then you can trust what he's saying. You can trust. You can build a relationship, you can trust the relationship being built. So is peace a byproduct of trust? True peace, lasting peace, deep peace, not just a temporary peace
Dutch: 15:54
Peace is a byproduct of trust. But I think every part of our relationship with God is a byproduct of trust.
Hannah: 16:06
That's good.
Dutch: 16:07
Anything you're gonna do even with him, for him, no matter what it is, it starts with trust. I think even to back up a couple of minutes in this conversation, the reason a lot of Christians never get there is their religion gets in the way. They don't believe he's good all the time.
Hannah: 16:29
Right.
Dutch: 16:29
They believe he's a mean God. They believe he's up there making a list, checking it twice and by God, you're not getting anything this year. So, you know, I think there is in many believers, a legalistic concept of God. A concept that he's into judgment and strictness.
Hannah: 16:50
Yeah. Oh, for sure.
Dutch: 16:54
And so, to me, that's what religion puts in us; works, perfectionism, and performance.
Hannah: 17:01
Yeah.
Dutch: 17:02
And I think a good place for anyone to start building a relationship with God and especially a trust relationship, is to know that's not who he is, and that's not what he wants with me. He doesn't want me to earn anything. I don't get to have a close relationship with God because I earn it. I get to have a close relationship with God because he earned it for me, and that's what he wants.
Hannah: 17:28
Yes, yeah.
Dutch: 17:29
And he's saying, open up. I'm standing at the door knocking, open up to me. Come to me and let's hang out together. So I think a lot of Christians have to do is get past the belief system, sometimes even subconscious belief system that they're not really convinced he wants this. They're convinced he wants them to be a good person. He wants them to be a good Christian. He wants them to obey him. That's not what I want for you. My relationship with you, Hannah, is not that I want you to obey me. I want you to be a good citizen. I want you to be a good family member. My relationship with you is, you're my daughter and I love you, and because of that, you can do all these things.
Hannah: 18:11
Right.
Dutch: 18:11
And most Christians, frankly, I don't know if they have that understanding. So I think for some people, what they need to do is is back up and say: Would you help me rethink who you are?
Hannah: 18:32
That's good.
Dutch: 18:33
And who you want to be to me?
Hannah: 18:37
Yeah.
Dutch: 18:37
Do you really want to be daddy or is that just religious jargon? Do you really wanna love me and do you really want me to talk to you? Or do you just want me to ask for things? And I think, again a lot of Christians need a reshaping regarding their concept of who he is.
Hannah: 19:05
I completely agree because you know, when Jesus' disciples said, teach us how to pray, he started with Father. And that is an intimate connection that so many of us lack. I think with so many people, it comes from not understanding the value of our own identity and not seeing us as important or valuable enough to have that kind of intimate connection with the Lord. But also there's wounding in so many of us from authority figures, from parents. And so the idea that attaching total goodness to authority figures or to parents gets bent in us a little bit. So there's not the total trust in us because, I mean, none of us have perfect parents, but a lot of us come from broken homes or whatever. And so there's that thing of our father already starts some people on a level of distrust.
Dutch: 20:11
I think that's entirely true, and I think not only all of our parents have failed somewhere along the line, but so have our friends. Every relationship we've had, our brothers and sisters. Relationships disappoint us.
Hannah: 20:30
Right.
Dutch: 20:30
It's life, and I think we transfer that to God.
Hannah: 20:33
Yeah.
Dutch: 20:33
And we can say he'll never disappoint us, but that's not our history. Everybody disappoints me sooner or later. And so I think you're right. I think we have to get to a point where we can know that he's not human. He doesn't have the ability to disappoint.
Hannah: 20:49
He doesn't have the ability. That's an amazing thing to let yourself believe.
Dutch: 20:53
He doesn't have the ability. There's no rejection in him for us.
Hannah: 20:59
None.
Dutch: 21:00
Even when we were sinners, he said, Jesus had died for us. He wasn't rejecting us, even in our sin.
Hannah: 21:05
Right.
Dutch: 21:06
So I think we have to start by letting him define faithfulness and goodness.
Hannah: 21:13
That's so important.
Dutch: 21:14
Reliability.
Hannah: 21:15
Yes.
Dutch: 21:15
And if we will do that, I'll go so far to say that it will reshape everything in our lives.
Hannah: 21:24
100%.
Dutch: 21:24
Because when you have that confidence toward him and everything is flowing out from that, you're not even at the mercy of what other people do to you because they can't give you your steam, security, confidence, well being, none of those things. If you get it from him, you're not even shaken when someone else even close to you, disappoints you. So, I think the biggest key to trust is to start with an understanding of who he is, and then that could be transferred to me. Who he is to me.
Hannah: 22:08
That's really good. I started all this talking about kind of the chaos the world is seeing right now with the Pandemic COVID-19 and all that. The whole world is in a storm right now, so obviously, maybe not obvious. But for me, obviously it brings to mind when Jesus and his disciples were in the boat. There's this crazy storm all around them. They're freaking out thinking that it's all about to end. The boat's gonna break or it's gonna capsize or whatever. Jesus taking a nap. And so there's, I think, obvious lessons for us in that. But how do we get to the point where we can take a flipping nap when it seems like the boats about to go under?
Dutch: 22:59
Well, I think there's no way to answer that except by saying it was His confidence in the father. He just spent time in prayer, he had been off on the mountainside by himself and he had such a walk with with the father, his father that the trust couldn't be shaken. And there is an element to, there is a part of our walk..well, how do I want to say this.... There is a strength that comes from walking with him over time. That adds to the ability to do that. I think there's always grace, even as a baby or a baby Christian to trust. But, uh, I just keep coming back to the fact I don't want people that haven't walk with the Lord long to think they can't trust him
Hannah: 23:59
Right.
Dutch: 24:00
What I am saying, though, is that the more you do it, the more you can do it. So, Jesus had such a walk with the father that nothing could shake him, but we can get there. We start with intentionality and we start by making a choice, I'm going to do this. You know, a baby in the natural or a two year old, let's say, has complete trust in the parents, but not for all the things he or she will trust the parent for when they are 20 or 15 even.
Hannah: 24:36
Right.
Dutch: 24:37
They know Mom and Dad are going to take care of them. Going to feed them. Going to comfort them. So they have complete trust, but as they grow in their maturity, they're going to trust him for far more. They're gonna know they can trust their wisdom. They're gonna know they can give them counsel. They're gonna know that, Hey, when my life,
Hannah: 25:01
Ideally speaking of parents. Yes.
Dutch: 25:03
Yeah, yeah. My life is in a bad place. I can go to Mom and Dad and get some help here. So I think that's the way it is with us as a baby Christian. I can trust him. I could know he's gonna take care of me. But I think that also needs to increase. And my maturity in the sense of trust also has to grow. Does that make sense?
Hannah: 25:25
It does make sense. Um, I think it's also an element of perspective, as you have to in those early stages where it's intentionality and you're working to set a habit or make it part of who you are, you have to be intentional about also taking off the lenses where you don't see him rightly where you are in order to invite in the exchange of perspective of trust. If you don't have that, you haven't had it or you think knowing him now means no storms. You have to realize or be willing to accept that you probably have wrong lenses on and be just is intentional about saying Okay, I think I'm seeing this through a warped perspective. So I also invite you to exchange my lens.
Dutch: 26:22
Totally. Two things you're saying that we have to we have to allow him to reshape our thinking.
Hannah: 26:28
Yeah.
Dutch: 26:29
But I think also when you touched on this, just vaguely. But you you did, and that is that there has to be an element of vulnerability. Yeah, that's at some point everyone has to make the decision to trust. I'm gonna let him in even if I've been hurt. Even if I've been rejected or wounded or betrayed, I'm gonna open the door again in my heart and risk. It's harder for some than others. But even for those that have been wounded and abused, there is a grace from God that can come and enable you to do that. To say, I'm gonna open my heart to him and really, what do you have to lose? I mean, you are already beat up and bruised. That person is and so why don't you just open up to him and see what he does?
Hannah: 27:30
Have the courage to do it one more time.
Dutch: 27:32
Exactly. So we start with that vulnerability, and then we make the decision: I'm gonna let him reshape my thinking so that I can trust and walk a life of trust and faith.
Hannah: 27:47
Yeah, a life of it.
Dutch: 27:50
You know, King David wrote the psalms, and he was just a great king in Israel, and yet he had one of the absolute closest relationships with God, I believe, of any person who has ever lived. He made mistakes.
Hannah: 28:08
Yeah, big ones.
Dutch: 28:09
Big ones. But he had a heart that believed in God's Heart to him.
Hannah: 28:15
Yeah.
Dutch: 28:16
He believed that God's love for him was bigger than his mistakes.
Hannah: 28:20
Which is huge, which is huge.
Dutch: 28:23
Right. And yet he was obviously an outcast in his family. And there was a point when the Prophet Samuel was going to anoint the next king and he knew it was in this household. And he tells Jesse, David's father, Bring all the sons and I'm gonna pick one of them to be king. Jesse brings all of them but David.
Hannah: 28:49
Right.
Dutch: 28:50
And it's obvious from the passage that it wasn't just because he was the youngest. It was because he didn't respect him. And the word that is translated youngest actually means in Hebrew "of no account."
Hannah: 29:08
Wow.
Dutch: 29:09
He said, there's the runt out there. There's the one of no account. And then again, many scholars believe that that was because David was likely a product of a relationship that Jesse had with one of his servants.
Hannah: 29:29
An affair.
Dutch: 29:29
An affair. So in that culture, in that day, you didn't have the rights of a son if that happened to you and so that he was basically an outcast. And he was one that had no rights as a son. When you think about the psalms and the walk this guy had with God, it's remarkable. How did he get there?
Hannah: 29:57
Yeah.
Dutch: 29:58
How did he get past being an outcast? Rejected. No account, no love, no respect. Put him on the side of the mountain with the sheep somewhere. We don't want him around here. And yet he becomes a giant killer. He becomes a king. He becomes one of the greatest worshippers in history. How does that happen? Because he sat on the hillside and talked to God. He got his harp out and he wrote songs. David didn't set out to write songs, David was just letting his heart out.
Hannah: 30:34
And he was honest when his heart was in pain.
Dutch: 30:36
He was. He was. Read the Psalms. He would talk about how he was feeling and how in despair he was. Please don't abandoned me.
Hannah: 30:46
Right.
Dutch: 30:47
But through those conversations, something happened. God came near to him.
Hannah: 30:54
Yeah.
Dutch: 30:55
And infused him with strength and shaped his thinking. To where, at the end of David's life, he could have a moral failure and still believe, "he loves me". He still loves me. He's not gonna reject me. There may be some consequences here, but he still loves me. So, David, I think, is one of the greatest examples of a person who has been rejected, hurt, abused, disappointed. He's one of the great pictures that should say to us: I can do this. I can open my heart because though Mom and Dad reject me, Abba, Daddy God won't. My brothers and sisters may reject me, but God won't. And we start drawing near to him and he starts healing the heart and he reshapes our mind and the way we think. Next thing you know, we're on our way to incredible relationship with our creator. That really then positions us to be what he intended for us from the beginning, our destiny.
Hannah: 32:05
Yeah, And when I think about David too, one of the things I appreciate in reading the Psalms is that when he was in turmoil or his life wasn't going as he thought it would. The prophetic word didn't seem to be happening or being fulfilled. He was hurt. He was in pain. He'd made mistakes. You see all of that in the songs. But he doesn't deny any of that in his conversations with the Lord. He's honest, he's transparent, he stays vulnerable. Just because he says, "Lord, where are you? Come rescue me.", doesn't mean he stopped trusting the Lord. The fact that he's having that conversation with Lord, shows his trust in the Lord.
Dutch: 32:44
That's absolutely right. And I think different, sort of a different context, but the prodigal son is another good picture of not that, but of the father's heart.
Hannah: 32:56
Yeah, for sure.
Dutch: 32:57
Because God wants us to know if you beaten yourself up and you don't think you can come back to me, which is not what David felt, but if even for someone who's had this hang up: that I'm too bad or I failed or I'm a failure, I'm no good or whatever. God wasn't feeling that, he was feeling love for them. He was feeling, "I want to put a ring back on your finger."
Hannah: 33:21
Yeah, that's so good.
Dutch: 33:21
Which was which was a sign of sonship. I want you to have your inheritance back. And so again, God goes out of his way in scripture to say to us, my heart toward you is not judgment. I'm not into judgment, All right? God is not into judgment. He takes no pleasure.
Hannah: 33:42
That is huge.
Dutch: 33:43
He takes no pleasure in judgment. That's what the Bible says. So what he's into is redemption. He's into healing. He's into restoration. He's into salvation. So whether we're caught up in condemnation, uh, or whether we have had other people heap on to us curses and say to us, we don't amount to anything. None of that, God doesn't want any of that to keep us from him.
Hannah: 34:17
I agree, I agree. I think when the world gets in a storm like we're in now, chaos, or you personally face storms, it gives you an opportunity to see where you are in this process, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. It can be something that causes you to recenter a little bit and say, Okay, maybe I thought I was further along but this has really freaked me out, and it gives you an opportunity to say, I'm still like the Apostles were in the boat looking at the waves, and it's an opportunity, really what it is is it's an invitation for greater intimacy with Jesus to say he's invited me to go nap with him in the middle of all of this.
Dutch: 34:57
Yeah, I think it's the guy who said, I believe. Help Mom believe.
Hannah: 35:00
Come on. Yeah,
Dutch: 35:01
You saying You know, I'm not completely without faith but i'm struggling in this situation. Help me. And I think that's a beautiful example of God's heart that again, he's not a perfectionist.
Hannah: 35:20
Nope.
Dutch: 35:20
He's not requiring us to do it exactly right, or we don't get this. What he's saying is, I love you, let's work on this together, even when you fall short, I'll teach you through that. That'd be a barometer of where you are. Sure, like you said. But don't get stuck there. Don't get condemned over it. We're in a growth process here and we're gonna get there. So I think that's absolutely right, and I think for a lot of people, situations like this do reveal where we are in our trust level. I mean, I can honestly say that during this whole process this whole Corona virus thing, I have not had fear.
Hannah: 36:00
Same, personally.
Dutch: 36:02
I've not had to wonder, "Oh my God". You know, Is he gonna take care of us or our family or whatever? I have a confidence in him now that that's not gonna shake. A disease like this won't shake that. So, but again, there are other people that aren't there. It is revealing to them where they are, even Christians.
Hannah: 36:24
And that's not a bad thing. And that's not a condemnation thing. Like we've been saying, it's just an indicator. And on the other side of that, an invitation.
Dutch: 36:33
Absolutely. It could be an incredible time of growth.
Hannah: 36:36
Yeah.
Dutch: 36:36
Because if that is where you are, you don't wallow in failure. You say OK, Lord, thanks for helping me see that. And I'm gonna grow during this. And the next time it happens it won't affect me. It won't have this effect on me. So, I think God always wants to turn it into something that helps me grow and helps me learn. I think, you know, we don't want to make the mistake of thinking that everything bad that happens is God. That God is doing it to help to teach us something.
Hannah: 37:07
Right?
Dutch: 37:08
But I think we should always know that even when bad things happen, always God wants to teach me something.
Hannah: 37:13
Right, he's not gonna waste it.
Dutch: 37:14
He's not gonna waste my pain, he's not gonna waste the heartache. Doesn't mean he caused it, but it does mean he wants me to grow through this. He wants to turn it into something good for me. So.
Hannah: 37:26
And that goes all the way back to the beginning, trusting his heart and his nature.
Dutch: 37:30
Absolutely.
Hannah: 37:30
Step one, Lord help me see you and see how you see me.
Dutch: 0:00
Absolutely.
Dutch: 37:36
I think another important phase of this I know this is not where you wanted to get to necessarily, but one of things I need to know as a person is if he can get me to this point of trust, that's when he could really use me the most because the more I know him, the more can listen to him, the more I can trust his heart, the more he can communicate to me assignments and what he wants me to do.
Hannah: 38:14
Yeah.
Dutch: 38:15
He's not gonna give me his heart for America if I don't trust him because I'm gonna do something weird with that. But if i've come to a point where I believe he is good all the time and he is a god of salvation, not judgment. If I really believe that, now he can communicate his heart to me for a nation.
Hannah: 38:35
Yeah.
Dutch: 38:36
And use me, and I'm not gonna beat people up over their sin. And I'm not gonna be one of these doomsday, naysayer prophets that are always telling people
Hannah: 38:50
quote unquote prophets.
Dutch: 38:51
your state's gonna fall off into the ocean or God's gonna burn your city down because there are too many homosexuals that live there. I'm gonna say what is God's heart to heal that?
Hannah: 39:04
Absolutely.
Dutch: 39:05
And to rescue people. So I think trust is ultimately not just connected to my ability to live life in peace, but it's a part of coming into the kind of relationship with him that allows him to use me.
Hannah: 39:23
I think Peter is an excellent example of that, Apostle Peter. Where you have this wild, uh, kind of childish, easily moved by his emotions, dude. Who still wants to take the journey and take the risks. He's willing to do that. So he ends up being the one who tries to walk on the water, successful for a second or two, and then loses it again and goes back and forth between who he is and who he was going to be on that journey a little bit. Ultimately ends up being one of the major main apostles leading the Acts Church as he matures.
Dutch: 40:04
Absolutely. And he blew it, probably more than any of the other apostles except for Judas. He cursed, he rebuked Jesus. He's the 1st one that said between the cross and resurrection, I'm done with this. I'm going back to my old profession.
Hannah: 40:23
He gave up.
Dutch: 40:27
But he was also, in a very short time, one of the leading apostles.
Hannah: 40:32
Right.
Dutch: 40:33
For the very reasons that you said, he was able to get past that, I believe, in that fear, and God was able to transform him and turn him into a rock.
Hannah: 40:43
Right. Because those storms, those chaotic instances, the turmoil he faced, the different crises he walked through with Lord, they all ended up being opportunities that even if he seemingly failed the first time around, the Lord used it and turned it around into an invitation into more trust, more peace, more growth.
Dutch: 41:05
And let's not forget that Jesus said I knew this failure was coming. And back when he
Hannah: 41:12
He knew what he was getting into when he chose Peter.
Dutch: 41:13
when he was gonna run. He said that I knew this would happen. But I prayed for you. His heart wasn't anger, his heart was, How can I help this guy through this? He's gonna show some humanness here, But I'm gonna be his intercessor, and I'm gonna give him some prayer support so he could make it. I mean, it's so contrary our concept of God. But that's the reality of who he is. I know you're gonna fail, but I've already planned a way to turn that into something else. And so that's just the heart of God.
Hannah: 41:47
Yeah. This is probably enough because we've talked about, how do we have peace?
Dutch: 41:55
You're in charge, Hannah. Whatever you say.
Hannah: 41:55
I know, thank you. Okay. So long as you can admit it. So, we have talked about learning he's good, inviting him in for perspective. We at the beginning talked about actually being intentional and setting time away to do this. Making it, have it, cultivating it. We talked about trust, peace, storms, different journeys. We gave people, hopefully inspiration to go look at it themselves, either through the lives of David or Peter. And so I think that's probably a good chunk of stuff to just say, OK, that's good. Let's stop here and say here are some nuggets here are some ideas, inspiration, hopefully on how you can practically start cultivating this in your own life.
Dutch: 42:45
Yeah, and I think the verse that comes to my mind that I think would be a good place to end this, is the phrase, and I think it is in Peter's epistle that he wrote, the letter he wrote, the phrase "peace that passes understanding". There is a peace in times like this where the phrase passes understanding that means it's not natural.
Hannah: 0:00
Right.
Dutch: 0:00
It goes beyond the normal ability to process and understand. Apart from what's happening there can be peace. And so that's what I want to leave people with today. Start there, it's available. Get to know this is available. I can get through this without worry, stress or fear. He wants to give me that. If I go to him and do the things they're talking about, he's gonna put his peace in me. He is going to cause faith to rise up in me. Even if I lost my job.
Hannah: 0:00
Right?
Dutch: 0:00
He used that job provide for me. But that job is not called my provider. God's called my provider.
Hannah: 0:00
Absolutely.
Dutch: 0:00
And so you know, no matter what happens, you can always fall back on his love and his grace and say, I'm gonna have peace because he's going to take care of me.
Hannah: 43:56
He is my peace.
Dutch: 43:58
He is my peace and he's my provider and he's my healer and he's my sustainer. And there is a piece and a strength that can come from him that is beyond anything natural that I can walk in this situation.
Hannah: 44:12
I love it. Nothing else needs to be said.
Dutch: 44:15
Done.
Hannah: 44:15
Done.
Dutch: 44:19
Thank you, Hannah.
Hannah: 44:19
Thank you for listening to this podcast from Dutch Sheets Ministries, if you would like more information about us or if you've been impacted by this podcast and would like to sow into the ministry, please visit our website at Dutchsheets .org