Conversations With Dutch

The Value of Generational Relationships

May 09, 2020 Dutch Sheets Season 1 Episode 10
Conversations With Dutch
The Value of Generational Relationships
Show Notes Transcript

On this podcast, Mark Casto and I talk about the importance of having a spiritual father/spiritual son relationship. Conversations between fathers and sons are where wisdom is shared and lessons taught that go way beyond what one can glean in a classroom. Experience is a valuable tool. Listen as I share with a spiritual son who pastors in Covington, GA.

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Dutch Sheets:   0:11
Hey, I'm really looking forward to this podcast. As you know, I have a lot of excitement in me about the coming generation and what God's going to do there. I've known for years that this coming Great Awakening would have an incredible impact on the young generation. The teens, the twenties, even the 30 year olds. There is coming such a harvest in that age group or those age groups that millions upon millions of them will come into the kingdom. That is really the age group that will reform America and the nations of the Earth into the next era. I love working with them. So in this podcast, actually, it's a podcast recorded by a young friend of mine, Mark Casto. He interviews me and we talk a little about various things, and I think it demonstrates the strength that comes when the fathers and the sons or the fathers and mothers, sons and daughters, work together and relate to one another. This is a good example of good things that can come out of that. We talk about how the Lord used that in Mark's life, his relationship with me and it evolved into a good discussion on old wine skins versus new wine skins, the strength of the generations coming together. A little of what can be expected in the coming Revival and Awakening. This is just a really quality time together and I think that you're going to enjoy this. All age groups will enjoy this. The quality of my my volume level is not quite as good as I would have liked it. Mark's is fine. Mine wasn't the best. But I still think it's easy to listen to and you're gonna enjoy this. So take a Listen, I believe this podcast will be a blessing to you. I hope you enjoy. Thanks.

Mark Casto:   2:16
All right. I want to welcome everybody today. I'm so excited about this just special time and conversation with Apostle Dutch Sheets. In 2016 the Lord gave me a really special encounter where I saw a vision of an auditorium and there were three seats on this platform and the side door opened up. I saw three men who are Apostles in my life and in the life of many others. Apostle Dutch Sheets, ApostleTim Sheets and my Apostle Damon Thompson. When those men walked out onto the platform and they took their seats, I saw a portal open over their heads, and I saw blueprints being transcribed through what looked like lightning bolts being placed in their hands.  I knew in that moment the voice of the Lord spoke and said, "These are new blueprints for a new wine skin for this generation. So I asked the Lord, "How do I stay in step with what you're saying and what you're doing and what you're giving to these Apostles?" And the Lord said, "It looks like Children sitting at my feet." When he said those words, I saw that vision open up and it was like a panoramic view. I saw hundreds of thousands of sons and daughters, this younger generation, sitting at the feet of those three men, and I knew there were significant blueprints. I knew my assignment was to get in alignment with what was being said, but I also feel like that the assignment on my life as a son is to put these fathers and their voices in front of you so that we can come into alignment with what the Lord is saying and doing. So, it's my privilege to have one of these men who's just been a strategic voice in my life, help me navigate one of the most crucial decisions and transformations in my life and just super honored today to have Apostle Dutch Sheets with me. Dutch, thank you for joining me today.

Dutch Sheets:   4:20
Good to be with you, Mark. I love you man.

Mark Casto:   4:22
I love you too.

Dutch Sheets:   4:23
I love you, I love your generation, I love the people coming behind me. You're going to reform the world.

Mark Casto:   4:31
I appreciate it. I was just looking back through old notebooks and encounters and experiences I've had. Obviously you have played in and impacted my life way beyond our actual meeting. Because obviously reading your book  "Intercessory Prayer" years ago when the Lord first called me, I was 21 years old when I first read that book. I'm 33 now. But just reading "Intercessory Prayer" and then to have the privilege of actually meeting you in 2014 at this wild man's church named Jimmy Lovejoy in Streetsboro, Ohio and actually we got to meet for the first time at a football game watching Jimmy coach. Anybody that knows Jimmy Lovejoy knows what a wild man that guy is. He brought us together on, I believe I've got the date here. It was September 20, 2014.  You gave me a significant prophecy while we were there and it radically transformed my life. You said, "Mark, there's a hidden place for you." What I did not know is from that prophecy, the Lord would take me on this crazy journey of hiding me in South Carolina with my Apostle and going really through a radical transformation out of a pretty significant system of religion and then bringing me into this whole place of encountering the gospel, encountering the love of God, receiving hope, having my eschatology transformed and just a whole new theology of the Lord developed. I'm just telling you, Destiney and I would not be doing what we're doing today without your voice. Without those prophetic words that the father has used you to be in our life. And I just want to say thank you for that.

Dutch Sheets:   6:39
You're welcome, Mark. I remember that night well. I'm not as good as you. I couldn't have pulled out the date, but I remember it very well. I remember we actually, after the service went down, grabbed a little snack and sat and talked until, what? Two in the morning? Something like that.

Mark Casto:   6:55
It was almost three clock in the morning.

Dutch Sheets:   6:58
Yeah, and I'm too old for that, you know? Made it somehow. It didn't phase you, but anyway, I remember and this is not unusual. All of us in our ministries, our lives in general, but ministries, the Lord moves us through phases. I did teaching years ago in the life of David. We went through four distinct phases in his life and ministry. And it's not unusual for that sort of a cross roads to hit. Sometimes we know it's coming. Sometimes we don't know it's coming, but you were obviously at one of those transition points where God was about to move you into another phase and sometimes there is no geographic change or no radical position change. It's all internal. Sometimes, of course, it does involve, geographic relocating. What we're doing starts to change, but I remember that very distinctly that I saw a wine skin prepared for you and I'm not saying it was a vision. This It is just a way of describing what I was sensing that night. There was a new wine skin you needed to step into. I see wine skins as two things. I see this internal who we are, our wine skin, the way we think, the way we act, the way we relate to the Lord, to life. Can we hear what he's saying? Etcetera. But the Lord spoke to me once and said, "I have many new wine skins". Again, that means they're not stuck in the past. An old wine skin is not an old person. It is a person that is stuck in the old wine that God was pouring out and is not able to receive the new wine.

Mark Casto:   9:00

Dutch Sheets:   9:01
So when he says new wine has to be put. Don't know we're off track here, but Jesus said, new wine is to be put in new wine skins. The word "new" there is two different words. "New wine" is one word in Greek. "New wine skin" is a completely different word in Greek. The new wine is naos wine, and it means numerically new but not qualitatively new. It's not different, it's just more of the same.  

Mark Casto:   9:31

Dutch Sheets:   9:31
 So that makes sense, because the wine is Holy Spirit. He's not changing. He does different things. He's going to be moving us into different things, but the wine is the same wine, it's Holy Spirit. Then he says, that has to be put into kainos  skins. Two different Greek words for new.  

Mark Casto:   9:54

Dutch Sheets:   9:54
 Kainos means qualitatively new, different. So the wine is not changing, but the vessel has to change. We go through seasons where we have to allow him to do things to our wine skin. Where we are current, we are flexible. With the wine skin, obviously, in that day, we use this example because once a wine skin was used, when the wine was gone it would harden in different shapes and different forms. If it didn't go through a renewing process, soaking in oil and water, let it become soft again. When they put the new wine in, it would ferment, expand and that hard wine skin would break. That's why, Jesus said that you lose the skin and the wine.  If you don't put it into a renewed, changed wine skin. So we go through these processes where God has to do things internally in us so that we can receive the new. I knew you were in one of those, but you know what the Lord said to me once, he said, I have many new wine skins. In other words, at a heart level, they're flexible and ready to change. He said, I have many new wine skins in old robes. What is that all about?  

Mark Casto:   11:11

Dutch Sheets:   11:11
He said at a heart level they're fine, but they're stuck in some methods, some ways of thinking, some paradigms, forms. Just the way they were shaped and it's not a heart issue. It's just somebody has to get those old robes off of them so that they can have a new garment, that's flexible enough. I've never seen it that way before, that sometimes it's not a heart issue. It's just a "somebody's got to help them get out of that mode of thinking that they're in." Well, that was you.  

Mark Casto:   11:46

Dutch Sheets:   11:46
You weren't an old wine skin, but you did have to go through some change of thinking.  

Mark Casto:   11:51

Dutch Sheets:   11:52
Theology and some paradigms. For some people, they just can't do that. Other people, they can do it. Anyway, that's where you were. And I realized that if he doesn't go through that process, God is never going to be able to bring out of this man what he's put in him.

Mark Casto:   12:10
Yes, sir.

Dutch Sheets:   12:11
This man is made for new wine and God's ready to pour it in.  He is just got to get some of these old methods and structures and ways of thinking off of him so that he can  flow and function in the way God wants him to be. I just remember it so distinctly. I've never said this way before. There was a new you, and it's really not a new you, it's a new faith. There was the new you He wanted to bring out.

Mark Casto:   12:44

Dutch Sheets:   12:44
 And it was going to be synchronized with and timing wise with what he's doing in the earth for your generation. There were things that he had put in you that this generation is going to need. And he was working to put you through this process. You and I both, we know, everybody listening does it. Jimmy is going through the same thing. So many people have gone through the very same thing Damon would say that he's gone through the same thing for the last 5, 6 or 7 years.

Mark Casto:   13:17
That's right.  

Dutch Sheets:   13:19
So we all go through it. Every wine skin has to be renewed before the next wine is put in it.  

Mark Casto:   13:28

Dutch Sheets:   13:28
So that's where you were. It was a glorious night. And you listened.  

Mark Casto:   13:32

Dutch Sheets:   13:33
You heard it. You heard it. You received it.

Mark Casto:   13:37
Yeah. 2014 was such a crucial year for me because obviously we walked away from everything that we knew that very next year in 2015 but 2014 was such a crucial year because I also did a conference with you at your brother's church called "The Cry of Ohio". You were there. Tim was there. Lou Engle was there. There was a whole group of us fathers and sons that were together. I could remember being in the green room area behind the stage and I was listening to you, Apostle Tim and Lou talk and you all were talking about how we're going to see the nation transformed. I remember in particular, you were talking about how education was going to be reformed and how we needed to raise up teachers. I remember you talking about discipling the nation. When I started hearing those conversations, something started bubbling up and what you all were saying at that time was violating my understanding. I was going... wait a second. The world is getting worse. My eschatology was that the world is getting worse. We're living in bad days. Our president this time possibly could be the false prophet or anti Christ. I mean, that was the Pentecostal upbringing that I had. That was the worldview that I had and you fathers were sitting there talking and you had paradigms of thinking that was literally offending my understanding in that current moment. But there was a burning in my heart. Although I didn't understand it, I knew that that was in me and that particular moment was such a defining moment. A moment I'll never forget. The first time I heard fathers be able to communicate something that made my heart come alive. I felt hope. I started going Wait a second. If these men who have been burning for God these men who have been walking closely with the Lord are talking about discipling nations and talking about transformation in the nation. Because of what my heart felt, I knew something up here wasn't clicking. I had to get to what the Lord was doing, and I just didn't know how. You were a constant voice and literally when it came time for me to make that decision to actually leave everything that I knew, I was calling you almost every day during that time going, here is what I'm thinking. This what I'm sensing. I have a meeting. We have to make decisions here and there. The Lord would give you such wisdom. It was almost like he would let you go into the meeting before me, and you would give me exactly what to expect, what to say. I was really wowed. It became evident that if our generation is going to come into these new wine skins, it's impossible to do it without fathers.

Dutch Sheets:   16:52
Wow, Mark. That is so well said, I mean, I think that anybody listening can make sense of what you just said. I was thinking, while you were explaining that how it flowed out of normal life conversations. It's not like you came to a counselor's office, and I put my father hat on. "Here's what you need to know, Mark." I think back on it and you know, we just talked.  

Mark Casto:   17:25

Dutch Sheets:   17:25
 And you were able to just ask me a few questions, tell me where you were and out of what I've lived and what I've learned for last 40 years, I was able to say things without even probably realizing how significant they were to you.

Mark Casto:   17:41
Oh, yeah.

Dutch Sheets:   17:42
That kind of happens when you're a father and you're doing that sort of thing.  

Mark Casto:   17:46

Dutch Sheets:   17:46
 I think and it impacts me again that it has to be relational. You didn't need a teacher. You needed a father. Someone that you trusted. You needed somebody that could flow out of a relational context. And I think that's what God is doing. He's building completely new paradigm. And I agree with you 1000%. You're generation can never get to where it needs to be without fathers and mothers speaking into you in the way you just described. And i'll go a step farther and say my generation did not get where we needed to be because we didn't have it. Because in the charismatic move, which was my movement, that I came into my real relationship with the Lord during and the Jesus people movement, you know, the late sixties early seventies, when we had something, at the time, in our culture in America called "The generation gap".

Mark Casto:   18:47

Dutch Sheets:   18:48
It was the disillusionment of the sixties toward the older generation. Watergate, Vietnam. You know, just materialism. A lot of things that the young generation, my generation at the time, was disillusioned with and that is where they were vulnerable to the teacher and sexual world, because they were so disillusioned. But what I'm saying is, when that move of God came, it rescued a generation from drugs.  

Mark Casto:   19:22

Dutch Sheets:   19:23
 It rescued me and hundreds of millions and the movement in the earth, however, we did not have the understanding of the fathers and mothers, sons and daughters and the relationship that needed to exist there. My generation that had this disillusionment brought that right into the kingdom with us. And so even though we're born again, we still didn't trust the older generation. They still look at us with suspicion and cynicism. So, that gap was brought right into it. I've taught for years. I may do series on this as we get a little farther in this movement because, i've taught that some of what God wanted to do in the Jesus People movement and in the charismatic movement. I believe the charismatic movement ended prematurely because of the curse that comes, Malachi said, when the fathers and mothers and sons and daughters have a breach, the land is cursed. And I believe there was a curse to a lot of the fruit that God wanted to bring that we weren't able to do.  

Mark Casto:   20:43

Dutch Sheets:   20:44
One of the things that gives me the greatest hope, that we're going to see more fruit and lasting fruit in this next outpouring, is that I don't see that same gap. I see your generation and younger wanting and hungry for the input of fathers and mothers.

Mark Casto:   21:02

Dutch Sheets:   21:03
I don't see this whole "let me do my own thing". I see a "I want to know what you think. What about this? What about that?" People of your generation and even younger, they'll sit and listen to me for hours.

Mark Casto:   21:21
Oh, absolutely.

Dutch Sheets:   21:22
They don't care if it's around a camp fire or in a living room or from a booklet because they're hungry to know what the fathers are saying. So you know, you are right. You're not going to get there. Your generation is not going to get there without the fathers. And listen, the fathers and mothers... I know I can't get what God wants in this hour without you guys.  

Mark Casto:   21:41
Yes sir.

Dutch Sheets:   21:41
 As an analogy, i'm the former basketball player, that's too old to do it now. But I can sit on the bench as a coach and give you some understanding you don't have. I can help you come into the fullness of your skills and your abilities. I can't get up and play a game for you. I can't do what you can do, but I can help you do what you do better. That's what it's all about, isn't it?

Mark Casto:   22:08
Absolutely, absolutely. I think the thing that really just blows me away sometimes is that I hear so many guys in my generation talk about the spirit of Elijah, the spirit of Elijah. They always translate that to being just prophetic or being fiery or you know, signs and wonders. Those types of things. I'm like, well guys, you know, Malachi says, one of the true signs of the spirit of Elijah is that we, as the sons and daughters, would want what's on the fathers and so many people just bypass that. The reality is we've watched that generation that experienced the generational gap. They moved in signs and wonders, but yet their ministries did not last. They didn't end well, and it's because you can have all the power, the fire, the manifestation. But if you don't have fathers, then you don't have the integrity instilled in the sons. You don't have the character instilled in the sons so that they can have longevity and ensure that we pass on something to our children, which was passed on to us by our fathers. I think it's just a huge thing. We can't claim to have the spirit of Elijah upon our generation and be disconnected from fathers. It just doesn't work that way.

Dutch Sheets:   23:34
Man, that's so good. It's so true. I think sometimes with what you said about the gifts and the fire and some of the things that can produce results. But one of the things that you can't always get without experience and the wisdom of experience is "Where is this going to end?" There could be things happening right now that look good. You could build a house on the bad foundation, and it could be sensational and spectacular. But if you didn't have an expert there doing it the way that it needs to be done, 10 years from now, you're in a lot of trouble because things are going to start cracking and breaking. Now you've got tens of thousands of dollars worth of work to do. Or you may even lose the house.  

Mark Casto:   24:17

Dutch Sheets:   24:17
 I think that's one of the things that a father and mother in the faith can do. They could come along and say, "This is good, but here are some things that need to be tweaked because if you keep doing it this way, it's going to lead to some things down the road that aren't good." And I talk about that every two chapters in my book. You may have my book, "The River of God".

Mark Casto:   24:38
You better believe I do.

Dutch Sheets:   24:40
Okay. I wrote two chapters in that book on five things that I felt like caused the charismatic movement to end prematurely. This is one of them. I think if anybody out there is listening to us and you don't have the book, you can get it on Amazon. It's called "The river of God", and it's well worth the read. In fact my daughter, Hannah, says that is her favorite book of mine. Look at you, man!

Mark Casto:   25:04
I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. I've got all of them. I've got all of them, right here. 

Dutch Sheets:   25:13
You just went up several notches in my estimation. But, you know, my daughter Hannah, she said, that's her favorite book. You know, with a lot of most people the favorite is "Intercessory Prayer". Others it's "The Pleasure of His Company", and it could be different things with where people are at the time.  But she said, you know, that's my favorite book and i've actually been feeling what the Lord may want. It's a book about revival, by the way. I call it the river, because it's the river of his spirit) River of God, that was kind of a phrase that was on everybody's tongue when I wrote it. I've actually been feeling like that book is more for now than it was for then.

Mark Casto:   0:00
Yes, sir.

Dutch Sheets:   0:00
I was challenged by the Lord that it may be time for me to go back and re-read it. Visit some of the principles and start teaching it again. I feel like I'm about to move back into my teaching anointing. It will always be with a prophetic bend and Apostolic bend.

Mark Casto:   0:00

Dutch Sheets:   0:00
But as a forerunner, which is what I've been for 25 years, you've got to have that plower, that breaker anointing. You know, it's just different. But I've always known just like John as the forerunner, when the outpouring comes, Jesus said: Now that I'm here methods are about to change. You don't need to preach the way John preached. You know, it's not a dirge, now it's a dance! I'm here.

Mark Casto:   0:00

Dutch Sheets:   0:00
I feel like God has been saying to me that when the awakening really hits, what he needs from me will shift. I feel like I go back into that teaching with an Apostolic bent mode, for people like yourself. You know, young people will come and say: here's what you need to know now, here's what you need to do next, no don't do that.

Mark Casto:   0:00

Dutch Sheets:   0:00
 I father and instruct. You know, I make the statement that today's wisdom is yesterday's revelation. But at some point, yesterday's revelation then becomes today's wisdom. Then you need more revelation today, more of what God is saying now. You need to be processing through what has become wisdom. Yesterday's revelation and what God told me then, is today's wisdom. So anyway, that's free.

Mark Casto:   27:34
Well, I love that you brought up River of God, because I was going to have you bring it up anyways. We left everything in 2015 and in the fall of 2016 is when I started having really radical re-identifying encounters. These were encounters that were bringing about my proper identification. People look at your life and they define you many times based upon your gifts and talents and abilities. What I've learned in this simple journey is sometimes that can happen where gifts and talents are evident and that's your calling and all of that is super evident. But a lot of times when Yahweh would put his hands on a man, he would call him to do something. He didn't have the gift or talent or ability to do. So again, Babylon always tries to identify us by what we do instead of who we are and I was having those really strong re-identifying encounters, but that was only because he was changing my theology about his nature, about who he was. And one of the most significant things I read in getting my theology changed was your actual encounter in "The River of God", where you begin to experience Jesus in a really playful manner. That set me free on so many levels.

Dutch Sheets:   29:10
You know, I had a 45 minute vision, what you're describing.  What I wrote about in the book. Actually, in the vision, it was several days, but in reality was 45 minutes.  

Mark Casto:   29:24

Dutch Sheets:   29:25
That's the first chapter of a book, as you mentioned. But you know what? There were several shocking things in this vision, as you know. One of the things that impacted me the most is what you just said. I was ashamed and embarrassed that after this vision, as I thought about it... I was so struck by the fact that Jesus was having a blast: laughing, joking around, having fun with me. We were in the river together and he was dunking me. I can remember when the vision was over , having the thought that I don't ever remember having the thought in my life about God having fun.

Mark Casto:   30:16
Yeah, right

Dutch Sheets:   30:18
Or laughing, teasing somebody. Even when I pictured him as a human with the disciples. It was like it never occurred to me. I always envisioned him intense, thinking about the next message. I pictured him giving them a little teaching here, sit down boys, let me teach you a few things.  

Mark Casto:   30:37

Dutch Sheets:   30:38
Working a few miracles here and casting out devils. I thought, you know, I don't think I have ever had a thought of him sitting around a campfire.

Mark Casto:   30:48
Wow. Yeah, yeah.

Dutch Sheets:   30:50
Or laughing with them or teasing them, you know? Playing a joke on Peter or Matthew. I just thought that he created us. He created us with personality, the desire to have fun, to be serious here to laugh here. If he made us in his image, then we got that from him.

Mark Casto:   31:13

Dutch Sheets:   31:13
How did I miss this? How have I lived to be (at the time) probably almost 40 years old and never had a thought about a fun God? What does this wisdom do for us, Mark?

Dutch Sheets:   31:27
I'm telling you, I'm telling you, that one chapter transformed my whole thinking. It opened me up to seeing him that way. You know, really those versus coming alive, where it says that he was anointed with the oil of joy above all of his brethren. You start getting into those passages and really, it was that nature of  God being revealed to me that opened me up to be able to explore parts of his nature that I was never given access to because the spirit of religion wouldn't let me peer into those things.

Dutch Sheets:   32:05
That's right, and you recall in the dream or in this vision, he had taken me around the world and we've did ministry together, which was intimidating because he wouldn't always do it in this vision. He would make me do it. I'm thinking.. i'm not going to say anything preacher/teacher or pray for anybody with you standing here. You do it!  Then we went to a beach and in the vision my family, my wife and two daughters were there because most of this was just him taking me and showing me things. And there they were. It was my birthday and he had made sure that we got to a beach on my birthday and they were there. And he had this cake and I said, Well,  Jesus, we don't have time to stop to celebrate a birthday. We're too busy healing people on doing these things around the world. He said, Oh, you didn't learn to relax, man. I have other people out there doing this stuff too. We need to celebrate.

Mark Casto:   33:08
Oh, man!

Dutch Sheets:   33:09
Then he brings out this birthday cake, in the vision. I said, "Well, okay! Cut the cake.". He said, "Cut the cake?! We're not going to cut the cake", and he grabs a big hunk of it and hands it to me and he's laughing. And i'm thinking... you can't do that!

Mark Casto:   33:32
Yeah, man.

Dutch Sheets:   33:33
And then he says to me, "Dutch, you're so serious. You always want things so cut and dry and in order and, you know, line upon line. You need to lighten up, man. You need to know that I'm not always going to cut the cake! Here!" It did the same thing to me that it did to you. I was introduced to a different Jesus and a different God in that vision than I had ever experienced before in my life. And that's what religion will do to you.

Mark Casto:   34:05
Mhm, that's true. Just to give you confirmation, and I don't know what we move on to after this, but just to give you confirmation about this "River of God",  and you going back and maybe reworking it and that kind of thing. When we got about four days into this shelter in place, I laid down for the night. I just got finished putting the kids down for bed that night and I was just kind of sitting there. I asked the Lord just real simply. I said, "Lord, what are you saying right now? What is going on? What is happening? What are you saying?", and I heard the audible voice of God. I've only heard this two times in my life. I mean, it was audible to the point that it shook my insides and made me get up out of the bed. But he said, "When the enemy comes in like a flood, the spirit of the Lord will raise up the standard against it." That sent me that night, where I thought I was gonna go to bed early, I ended up writing util about four o'clock in the morning, just the spirit of God moving on me and writing. I was looking at the passion translation of that verse, and it literally says, Okay, so the enemy comes in. But it says, "For he Yahweh, will break in as a flooding rushing river driven on by the breath of Yahweh." The Lord said to me, "When you get on the other side of this (because the coronavirus is attacking the respiratory system and all of that) he said, Mark, what you're seeing me do in this moment is i'm letting the enemy go first. I let the enemy go first and I let him show his hand first. Then it will be a sign to you of the counterfeit move of what I am going to do." And the Lord said, "I'm using my breath to get the Royals ready to navigate the river." And I'm telling you, there's something special about this river revelation right now. I've never been more optimistic in all of my life. I can't explain that in a time where, obviously, my heart breaks for those who have been impacted not only just by the virus, but economically. No doubt there is compassion for these things, but at the same time, I am extremely optimistic about what's happening. I feel like what is stirring in the heart of the believer, is this river revelation that you're talking about. I feel like we're about to hit a flow in the move of the Spirit, unlike the Earth has ever seen. Would you agree with that? 

Dutch Sheets:   36:39
I totally do. We teach on revival and look at past awakenings, etc. We often refer to those outpourings as rivers. You know, the river, the charismatic flow. God uses rain to describe the outpouring of the spirit. He uses wind. He uses rivers, a flood of water and Jesus, said in John 7, if any man thirst, let him come to me and drink. And actually let me say that the way it says it in the Greek. If any man is thirsty, let him keep coming to me and it's actually a command in Greek. It's not a suggestion, hey you might want to do this. He said, "Come to me". The tense is continuous. Keep coming to me. Wandering is not enough. Keep coming to me. Keep on drinking and out of your belly, a river will keep on flowing. You don't get enough today for the next year or month or whatever. He said, out of your belly, that's "Koilia". That's the word, "womb". One lexicon said "matrix". He said, out of your womb, out of that place where I live, where your spirit, where there's life, out of your innermost place. That's why some translation say out of your innermost being. I like womb because it has the connotation of birthing something.  

Mark Casto:   38:10

Dutch Sheets:   38:11
 Something is going to be born of my spirit inside of you that's gonna flow out and out of you will flow rivers of living water and the phrase "river of living water", is the same Greek phrase as "river of life" in revelation that flows from the lamb on the throne, that fills the river, that feeds the trees for the healing of the nations. So the very same water that's going to heal nations fully one day, is supposed to be flowing out of us healing people right now. 

Mark Casto:   38:41
That's right.

Dutch Sheets:   38:41
And that's why revival is often referred to as "the river". So I think that it's a great picture that you paint. And I think God is telling me to visit this thing again. To teach on it again because there's another expression of his life giving river about to be released into the earth, and I think we're moving into it. I think this virus is just one more thing he's going to use because it's turning people to think about God. Any time people start asking, how am I going to survive? Oh my, I'm in trouble and I've lost my job. You know, a lot of people that wouldn't normally think about God, start thinking about God. It's not that God did this, you know, we know God's not up there trying to kill the old people in nursing homes. I don't think God did it, but it's like Joseph, you know, he said to his brothers, "You had a plan in this, but God has a plan in this."

Mark Casto:   39:39
That's right.

Dutch Sheets:   39:40
God didn't do it. But he always has a superimposed, over arching, more powerful plan than what the enemy planned.  

Mark Casto:   39:50

Dutch Sheets:   39:51
That's what I see. I see that this is just going to be one more thing he uses to launch us into what he's about to do, and there's a river that's about to be released, Mark, that there's never been anything like it.

Mark Casto:   40:04
That's right. 

Dutch Sheets:   40:05
Things not going to get worse and worse, and the church just barely make it and rescued before we all lose our faith. I'm not sure where that theology even came from, but that's not what Jesus talked about. He talked about a glorious church that he's building, an ecclesia, that the gates of hell wouldn't prevail against. I say to people sometimes when i'm teaching on that verse: If Jesus had already come or he came today, that verse would be a lie.

Mark Casto:   40:32
That's right!

Dutch Sheets:   40:33
 Because there hasn't been a church yet, that the gates of hell couldn't prevail against. We've been prevailed against lots of times. Our binding and loosing and releasing of kingdom authority hasn't measured up to what he intends it to. We haven't looked like him yet, fully.  

Mark Casto:   40:48

Dutch Sheets:   40:49
You know this, that Christ means anointing or anointed one. So he describes his anointing. The anointed one in Ephesians 4 describes his anointings , and then he breaks his anointings down into five pieces or five gifts and he gives them to the church so we can fully represent who he is. Apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher. Those are offices, you can describe them as an office if you want. It's not some structures or some hierarchy. Those are anointings and giftings of Jesus himself, that he's given to the ecclesia, the church, so that we can fully reveal Christ in the earth.

Mark Casto:   41:37
That's right.

Dutch Sheets:   41:37
If you only have two of his anointings working, then you can't fully revealed him.

Mark Casto:   41:41
So true.

Dutch Sheets:   41:42
I said that to say, now that he's fully restored to us, these five anointings and gifts or pieces of himself. Now we can fully represent him. There is a movement about to be released in the earth that is going to fully manifest Jesus.

Mark Casto:   41:58
Yes, I believe it.

Dutch Sheets:   41:59
We are going to be that glorious church, this river, this movement. We're not going to get weaker. The best is yet to come. The best days of the church are not behind us. They are in front of us.

Mark Casto:   42:10
Yeah, that's right.

Dutch Sheets:   42:12
We are going to be that gorgeous bride that the gates of hell can't prevail against. When we bind, it is going to be bound. When we lose, it's going to be loosed. So that's where we're headed. There's never been a river like we're about to see, Mark.

Mark Casto:   42:27
I believe it.

Dutch Sheets:   42:27
It will  literally heal nations!

Mark Casto:   42:30
I believe it. I believe it. I will just give you a little bit more of this, and then I want to share a couple of things with our audience today. The Lord started showing me this interesting picture. You brought up the verse: out of your innermost being flows rivers of living water. Well, when he spoke that verse to me about when the enemy comes in like a flood, the spirit the Lord raised up a standard against him, you know, and again, passion translation shows that where King James would say a standard, it would actually be a river. The standard was a river driven by the breath of Yahweh. The Lord said to me, "I'm raising up a new standard in this hour, and what I'm doing is, during this time of social distancing, I'm raising up a new standard". He said, "I'm seating you where I sit." If you look at revelation, the Lord said, "What I'm doing in this hour is I'm giving you a divine pause to get my sons and daughters seated in royalty." He said, "Remember, revelation where I sit... what proceeds from my throne is a river." So he says, "If you sit where I sit, you'll release the same river I release." The Lord just started speaking to me and he said, literally, this time of being sheltered in place is us being seated where he sits, releasing the river he releases and partnering with the spirit of wisdom for a new blueprint for a way of life. So I literally believe that there are things that the Lord is birthed in your heart, our hearts, the hearts of fathers and sons, that is going to raise up a new standard going forward. I don't believe the enemy gets to implement the new standard. We get to implement the new standard. As we come into that royal identity, what I felt stir in me more than anything, is I felt a fresh authority come into my secret place like I have never experienced before. I believe that Psalm 81:10 is happening. He said, "If you'll open your mouth, I'll fill it and I'll do that work. I'll establish it now." I feel like we're in that place where Authority and Dominion is being released in this moment. I don't know, I'm just extremely optimistic. I'm full of hope and I feel like we're shifting things through just intimacy with the Lord in the secret place right now, like never before.

Dutch Sheets:   45:10
I agree with you completely. We have already moved into the beginning stages of this third Great Awakening, well third for America.

Mark Casto:   45:19

Dutch Sheets:   45:19
It's going to be a worldwide movement, it's not the 3rd one everywhere. But for us, it's the 3rd Great Awakening. We're already in the infancy stages of this or maybe the pregnancy stage. But it's already begun. Certainly has been conceived by the spirit. There are pockets of it already happening, but nothing even remotely like what will be happening.  

Mark Casto:   45:49

Dutch Sheets:   45:49
 Because this is not going to be a for those that were around and know what I'm told about (a Brownsville revival or Toronto revival.) This is not going to be a one or two city thing where people have to go there and get it. There will be hubs that have it maybe in a stronger way and people falling out there. But what I'm talking about coming is going to hit everywhere, anywhere anybody wants it.  

Mark Casto:   46:13

Dutch Sheets:   46:13
 Around the world. And you're right, it's coming. It's coming quickly, and it's going to be a mighty river of Holy Spirit.

Mark Casto:   46:22
Oh, man, I'm so stirred. You get me stirred up big time.  

Dutch Sheets:   46:25
You've got me stirred up, man!

Mark Casto:   46:26
Again, I just want to take this back to what I think the Lord has highlighted in this conversation. How important it is for fathers and sons to connect. I mean, obviously your books have absolutely transformed me, the messages. I've got to hear you preach and even just little conversations. It's kind of funny, but but one of things that blessed me about you, again, me coming out of the world that I was in. I spent a lot of time in different green rooms. Around a lot of different personalities and people. I had seen a pretty high standard in the sense of ministry and what green rooms and hospitality looks like. I remember that I invited you to our first ever camp Ascend in 2016. If you remember this, you had just came back from the Vatican. This is 2016. I mean, you were just in a meeting with Pentecostal, charismatic, spirit filled leaders and the Catholic Church. You had just been with the Pope, and you come off the plane from the Pope to meet with us idiots called the Circuit Riders Rising, for our first ever youth camp. So I talked to the guys. I said, Listen, Apostle Dutch, just got back from the Vatican. I'm sure he got treated royally there. We have got to get food ready. I don't want a bologna sandwich anywhere within 100 miles of this man. Like, we have got to fix him up right. We already had it set up. We're gonna get you some Cheesecake Factory down the road. We were going to do all of this. I remember you walking in. We were like, Apostle Dutch, whatever you need, we're here. If you need us to go to store, if you need to do this. You know, we were really trying to do it right, you know? Are you hungry? Is there anything you want to eat? And I'm ready. Like I got him ready to go either Cheesecake Factory, Chipotle. Something decent, you know? I remember you pointing your finger over there to a box of honey nut Cheerios. That night, all of us guys and our wives were sitting around eating a bowl of cereal with you. And I thought, Man, this is the greatest day of my life. I'm eating a bowl of cereal, which is one of my favorite things, with the Apostolic voice for our nation. I win. I win. This is it.

Dutch Sheets:   49:02
That's  amazing.

Mark Casto:   49:04
Before we jump off here today, I just hope we can do this again. This was so much fun. But I just want to thank you for being a father. I want to thank you for seeing the gold in me. I want to thank you for the words you've given, the courage. I mean, seriously, I'm in Covington, Georgia, today. I left everything in 2015, canceled our itinerary, went into that word you gave me in 2014 about how God had a special place where he wanted to hide me. During that hiding process, because of that word, it gave me the courage to go into hiding for that transformation. Which unlocked a businessman paying our salary the whole time we were there, which then unlocked our assignment here in Covington, Georgia. Which then unlocked that same businessman building me and my wife a beautiful home in Covington. Now we just inherited our first meeting space. None of this, and Apostle Damon knows this too, none of this would have been possible unless you saw gold in me and called that thing forth. Who knows where I would be today, without your voice? And so I sincerely from my wife and I and what he's done in my family just can't thank you for being who you are in our lives. It's just amazing.

Dutch Sheets:   50:28
Wow. Just hearing you say that, it makes my day. I mean, that's what you want to hear when you do what I do. Nothing gives me more satisfaction, excitement than to be able to hear that I've touched somebody in that way or God has used me to help shape somebody, release them or to get them to the next place. That's what it's all about. Serving one another and not playing the big shot roles, but just to serve. You know, Jesus was the greatest server of all. He was the most anointed and the most powerful. So that's what it's all about, Mark. I'm thrilled to hear you say it. I want to be used by the Lord. I can't wait by the way to get to this new place. When the quarantine is all over and you get in this facility and get it finished. I want to get there and share with you guys first hand and be with your people, see what God's doing there and just hang out a little bit. I love you guys a lot.

Mark Casto:   51:27
It's amazing. We'll have plenty of Honey Nut Cheerios for you when you come.   

Dutch Sheets:   51:37
2% milk, please!

Mark Casto:   51:37
Okay! I can't do anything less than 2%. That's just water!

Dutch Sheets:   51:44
No, no, no, no, That's right. 

Mark Casto:   51:46
Two things I want to do today. Number one, all of you watching today, I encourage you to go to and I want you to become a partner. He didn't ask me to do this. I never told him I was going to this, but now that he's on here, outside of my possible Damon Thompson and this man that is on here today. There is no greater people that God could have put in our life to put us in this moment. So we want to honor that above and beyond. So me and my wife and the Shepherd's Tent here in Covington, Georgia, we're going to sew today into and we're sending in an offering for this. I want encourage all of you watching to become a partner, become a partner, or if you can just do one big donation today, that'd be awesome. I want you to go to and sew/become a partner and just stand with Dutch and Ceci in this moment. I want to see him just have so many partners that he can just do whatever he wants. If he wants to sit around, write books for a year and not travel at all, I want there to be partners that give him the ability to just hear and obey, no matter what that looks like. That's a big thing in my heart. Second thing I want to say to you is, I want you go to Amazon. I've got my favorite books out from Papa Dutch. The River of God. This book absolutely changed my life. The power of hope. I love this book. I mean, you want talk about changing your view on life? Again, the stories that are told, the theology of hope is in this book. It's amazing. The Pleasure of His Company. I'm talking about seeing friendship with God in a new way. Of course, Intercessory prayer. Man, I can't say enough about that book. I mean, that book speaks for itself. Everybody has probably read it a two least one time. If you have not read this book, you need to. And then I busted the cover on this one. I don't even have the right cover on this one. Its your Dream book and, i'm telling you. This book has been opened and closed so many times it doesn't even have a cover on it. But just thank you again, Dutch, for being who you are, for obeying God and loving our generation. There are a lot of leaders out there today that are building things, but you have really poured your life into my generation. I can't thank you enough. Could you before we leave, just pray for sons and daughters. Pray for us. That would be great.

Dutch Sheets:   54:35
Absolutely. Thank you for all those kind of words, Mark.

Mark Casto:   54:37
Yes, sir.

Dutch Sheets:   54:38
Lord, I just thank you for what you're doing. What you're about to do. Thank you for the incredible excitement and hope I have is I just hang out with this generation and listen to them, observe them. Lord, it shows me what you put in them. They are a generation that literally are going to change the planet. Lord, I pray for them right now that their ears will be very sensitive. I pray for Mark,  others listening to me right now that they will have ears to hear, eyes to see by the spirit. That they will not be just human in their thinking. But they will come into a walk with you that allows you to think through their brain. That your voice will bubble up and becomes so natural to them that it's almost like their own thought. Cause that to happen, Lord. Such sensitivity, such a strong close relationship with you that everything that they do will be shaped by who you are. I bless them. I speak safety, health over them. Any home listening to me right now that's been impacted by this virus. I speak to your bodies and say be healthy and strong, be healed. Anyone affected financially, I say you will recover. You will recover. You will recover. Lord, I  speak to his house and other congregations that are leaders that are listening and others that in this hour they will become the wine skin that you need them to become to accomplished everything you want. Lord, we bless you. We say let this river increase. Let it grow deeper and intensify. We  thank you for the Great Awakening that we're moving into even now. I bless you, Lord. And I bless your people in Jesus name!

Mark Casto:   56:43
Thank you. Thank you so much for today. This was a blessing.

Dutch Sheets:   56:49
I enjoyed it. We will do it again.

Mark Casto:   56:50
Yes, we will. Thank you.   

Outro:   56:54
Thank you for listening to this podcast from Dutch Sheets Ministries. If you would like more information about us or if you've been impacted by this podcast, and would like to sew into the ministry, please visit our website at