#59 - Crushing Myths, Prophesying Futures: Indigenous Perspectives on Life and Extinction

0:00 - Casual Conversation About Daily Life
8:29 - Philosophy of Extinction and Survival
23:08 - Navigating Cultural Learning and Extinction
27:32 - Exploring Morality and Cultural Prophecy
43:53 - Exploring Cultural Beliefs and Mortality
58:16 - Cultural Wisdom and Language Shorthand
1:13:05 - Podcast Topic Creation and Cultural Reflections

Hosts: Aaron Brien (Apsáalooke), Salisha Old Bull (Salish/Apsáalooke), Shandin Pete (Salish/Diné)

How to cite this episode (apa)
Pete, S. H., & Brien, A. (Hosts). (2024, Nov 15). #59 - Crushing Myths, Prophesying Futures: Indigenous Perspectives on Life and Extinction [Audio podcast episode]. In Tribal Research Specialist:The Podcast. Tribal Research Specialist, LLC. https://www.buzzsprout.com/953152/16024258

How to cite this podcast (apa)
Pete, S. H., & Brien, A. (Hosts). (2020–present). Tribal Research Specialist:The Podcast [Audio podcast].  Tribal Research Specialist, LLC. https://tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com

Podcast Website: tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.com
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Transcript

Casual Conversation About Daily Life

Shandin Pete 0:00

I decided to have a few prophecies today. You know Seven, just one, oh well, just one. So I got six more to go. That's a Tuesday for me. Yeah, you know, probably the greatest prophecy a man could have. You know what that is right, Like that would just make life easy, make things much more comfortable for all Native men across the world. If we could prophesize what our wives want to eat for dinner, yeah, the dinner conversation.

Shandin Pete 0:50

I know it's a tough one. What do you want to eat? You know, if we could prophesize, we would already know.

Aaron Brien 1:00

No, what are you hungry for?

Shandin Pete 1:03

Yeah, what are you hungry for?

Aaron Brien 1:12

No, it's a trap it's a trap.

Shandin Pete 1:13

The real question should be then yeah, do you want to blow?

Aaron Brien 1:36

100 bucks. Are we in Then? Yeah, let's get something fast. Then yeah, do you want to blow a hundred bucks? Yeah?

Shandin Pete 1:49

Yeah.

Aaron Brien 1:50

Well, let's do that.

Shandin Pete 1:51

Well, that's a Tuesday night here in Vancouver.

Shandin Pete 1:56

Oh yeah, Us country folk, we don't dabble in that um, I just um, I just uploaded a reel recently to, um, our youtube channel, the kia one. Uh, no, this one is, it's unlabeled. All it says is powwow songs, but it's good. It sounds like a recording of a recording, like recording of a record or a tape on one, on one side of it. But, um, I want to show you this song. It's a pretty good one, yeah, shoot. And then, uh, skipper, listen. But there's some good songs on here, really good ones, and uh, I think I put in the description. Maybe I should have put in the title asking folks that listen. They might be able to help identify who these people are you might have to summons.

Aaron Brien 2:57

Uh, what's his name?

Shandin Pete 2:58

crit, crit no, I don't know. Yeah, maybe he might know. Yeah, here we go. I know here we go, I don't know. Yeah, maybe he might know. Yeah, here we go, he might know.

Speaker 4 3:32

Here we go, coming in slow. That sounds like it's from here. Yeah, it does, doesn't it? Yeah, oh, I'm not going to do that. Here you go.

Shandin Pete 5:33

Pick it up now. Yeah, pretty good tune. Huh. Yeah, that's a pretty song. It's kind of got the you know that standard kind of standard lead, if you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 5:51

Like it could, it could be a song that you know.

Aaron Brien 5:53

Hey, I am it's sound to me. The sound of it, the composure of it sounds like it's from here, yeah but I've never I've never heard it, but I, but that doesn't mean anything, I would agree.

Shandin Pete 6:04

Well, go to the show notes. Click on the link for this particular reel. Show it around. Ask around, see if somebody knows.

Aaron Brien 6:16

Is she time stamped?

Shandin Pete 6:18

I time stamped her.

Aaron Brien 6:20

Yes, sir All right, check it out. Unknown track. Number one unknown I don't even.

Shandin Pete 6:29

It's like the fifth song in, I think, fifth song yeah, I like it.

Aaron Brien 6:35

I like the song.

Shandin Pete 6:36

I'm gonna sing it yeah, it's a good one man you ought to yeah, uh tonight.

Aaron Brien 6:43

There's a powwow tonight. Yeah, it's, it's probably still going on. I sang one. I sang one song, then just left and went. I just dropped in boom, sang one song and and dip why was it boring or something?

Shandin Pete 6:59

what happened?

Aaron Brien 7:01

no, no, no, no, no, no. Um, I was waiting for a particular part of it and oh, which was the. The chairman was going to have a giveaway and oh, I see um it was like happening. It wasn't happening in the time frame in which I needed it to or wanted it to. Oh, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. So I just oh yeah.

Shandin Pete 7:22

Yeah yeah, yeah, you bailed.

Aaron Brien 7:24

No, we had a little birthday party so we did that. So I wanted to make it back in time for that.

Shandin Pete 7:32

Oh, I see.

Aaron Brien 7:34

Whose birthday? Yeah, miranda's daughter.

Shandin Pete 7:39

Oh right, Happy birthday. Happy birthday 20?

Aaron Brien 7:44

20, yeah, happy birthday.

Shandin Pete 7:46

Happy 20? 20. Yeah, happy birthday. Happy 20th, truly, who?

Salisha Old Bull 7:49

did you say?

Aaron Brien 7:49

20?

Shandin Pete 7:51

he said 20, 20. Yeah, hey, do you remember? You remember watching Conan the Barbarian?

Aaron Brien 8:02

yeah, yeah, vaguely though. Okay, it was a little bit before me, okay, I mean, it was before me, but you know they played movies longer back then it seemed like yeah, well, conan was pretty popular during my heyday.

Shandin Pete 8:16

You know everybody ran around with the stick and chopping heads off or whatever.

Philosophy of Extinction and Survival

Shandin Pete 8:25

But um um, remember his um. Well, I don't know if you remember the storyline, but, um, his people got slaughtered by some folks from the north. I think they're from the north, um, but these people were looking for a particular type of sword the quest for steel, they called it anyway. They captured all the women and kids or whatever. Conan was among them, but I guess he grew up kind of tough and strong and got put into into the ring, you know, like death bouts, you know.

Aaron Brien 9:07

Yeah.

Shandin Pete 9:08

Turned out, he was pretty good at killing people, I guess. Then he got some advanced training because of that. He got trained in swordsmanship and all that to be a gladiator. But there was a scene where he's sitting on a table and all his trainers are sitting around him getting drunk and eating. Then, uh, the one guy asks his son, son, what's best in life? Then he says, uh, something like feel the wind in your hair, have a falcon at your wrist. And the guy says no wrong, you know, gets after his son and he says, conan, what's best in life? Do you remember what he said? Probably don't.

Aaron Brien 9:59

No I don't.

Shandin Pete 9:59

He says to crush your enemies, to see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of the women. Crush your enemies, to see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of the women. They're all happy.

Aaron Brien 10:13

That is good I can't believe that just happened well yeah, I mean there's a code. There was a conan impersonation on the pod to crush your enemies, see them driven before.

Shandin Pete 10:35

Yeah, I mean that's. This is classic stuff from my my day so.

Aaron Brien 10:39

So the real question is why are you bringing it up? Well, I'm curious. I sure hope this has a point you would think of a point. While I was telling you all this, you're like um you're like, I just been really working on my arnold impersonation. I wanted to bring it out no, I, there's a point here.

Shandin Pete 11:06

Okay, I've been thinking about this for uh, for a little while, about this question, um, what is best in life? And we talked about this in a very specific context and in a very specific way, and we talked about sort of like, we talked about it in the terms of like deeds, right, sort of centered in the past, but we tried to bring that forward and to think about how that um equates to the to today for a man, mind you, for a man, not a woman, because we're two men and we don't, we can't, conceive of those things for the female gender.

Aaron Brien 11:47

So that's so thoughtful of you.

Shandin Pete 11:53

Well, you know, gotta be.

Aaron Brien 11:56

Yeah.

Shandin Pete 11:57

We gotta acknowledge what we know and what we don't know.

Aaron Brien 11:59

Is this? This is going to be a deep episode. Is that what's happening?

Shandin Pete 12:02

I don't know, I'm just going, I'm just rolling with what's on my mind, so I've been thinking about this and about this question what is best in life? What is?

Aaron Brien 12:13

best in life.

Shandin Pete 12:16

I mean, that's too huge of a question to answer, to throw at you and say, okay, aaron, what's best in life? So I want to contextualize it somewhat and I want to pair that idea of what I just said what is best in life with the idea of living with, um, I guess what would we call it Like a philosophy of extinction? Okay, think about that for a second.

Aaron Brien 12:50

Okay. Okay, what is best in life. What is best in life?

Shandin Pete 12:56

Under this idea that maybe I don't know, maybe this would be the first part of the discussion have Native people been living with a philosophy of extinction? Have we been living our lives and building the constructs of what is real and what is moral based on this idea that we're headed toward our own demise?

Aaron Brien 13:25

Is this one of your prophecies? Are you? Are you?

Shandin Pete 13:33

no, no, I no, I, I only had one prophecy I had one prophecy today.

Aaron Brien 13:40

That was it so um, is that, are you done? Or when do you say yeah?

Shandin Pete 13:47

no, no, I just want to hear, I want to hear your initial thoughts based on that. Then I have some other thoughts related, but I want to hear your thoughts on that because, okay, you have one moccasin in the past.

Shandin Pete 14:02

Yes, I mean, you work in you work in a field to where things from the past are often considered, but not I don't know how far past. One time I I remember we had a discussion about something and I was thinking like six thousand years old was not that long ago, but that is. I mean, that's pretty far, though that's a long time. Yeah, it's a long time ago. I mean that's pretty far, though that's a long time.

Aaron Brien 14:25

Yeah, it's a long time ago. I mean, because you're a geologist, I think that your mind deals with geological time, you know. Yeah yeah, yeah. So, even if you subscribe to the theory of Beringia or the Bering Straits theory and not everyone does, but so even if you do, that still puts us here anywhere from 15,000 to 25,000 years ago.

Shandin Pete 14:50

That's a long time.

Aaron Brien 14:51

So, regardless of the belief I admittedly go back and forth with the barren straits concept, but I also am one of these people that it has no bearing on my identity, meaning like if, even if we did come across yeah, I don't want to say land bridge, but it's actually called beringia, right? Yeah, I guess, I don't know if, even if that's how we got here, that doesn't affect me at all, like it does not make me feel less native or more native or just so that's more of the origins.

Shandin Pete 15:34

Okay, You're talking more of the the end, I think so and I want to. Yeah, I want to.

Aaron Brien 15:42

I want to interrogate this idea. At my first glance. I would say Native people didn't think that way, but that's not true. There is a Crow prophecy.

Shandin Pete 15:56

Okay, here we go.

Aaron Brien 15:58

I'll say teaching, yeah, and actually there's several of them. And actually there's several of them, but one of them is when we cease to no longer have the tobacco plant, which we call Ichiche, that we will cease to exist as crows. So I don't know what that means. I don't know if that just means we'll be something else Arfo.

Shandin Pete 16:22

Yeah.

Aaron Brien 16:23

There's another view of that where they'll say, if all the crows were adopted into the tobacco society, then we will all be taken to the other side camp. So, um, but again, yeah, I may have only heard those things like once or twice, and, and in very specific situations, they're not something, it's not something crow people culturally think about, or, yeah, it's not like even a driving force as a people. What we do as a people, we just our job is just to move towards luck. So we move towards good fortune, yeah, and so, yeah, don't dwell on it.

Aaron Brien 17:08

I think individually that might be different people probably do things like that like, yeah, their end of their life, and yeah, I don't think that's totally unnatural. I think it's frowned on in like the church, because I was kind of raised in that so I know like, even though there's a lot of talking about death in the church, it's still like it's not like some. It almost has a negative connotation to it, where the crows would just say there's any lodges in the other side camp, so like it's just there's room for all of us. We'll just, we'll be all right, yeah, right, yeah, yeah.

Aaron Brien 17:55

I don't know. And then there's, like some other stories, there's another one where we're given some sacred items and that the use of one of these items will stop, kind of everything, kind of a thanos, kind of oh, really like a thanos snap, yeah. Yeah, a thanos snap, yeah. But again don't know what that means really, if it's literal or if it's like yeah um, because being crow and being alive or it might be two different things, you know yeah, yeah, yeah and those things are talked about, usually talking about being crow indian and not necessarily being alive.

Aaron Brien 18:36

You know she can that again, like we, the, the crow people by blood, can be around, but that doesn't mean we're going to be crows, you know we're not going to be, we don't. They're. What if the annihilation of the crow people just means, culturally, we're nothing anymore, we're just like everybody.

Aaron Brien 19:05

Oh, okay, okay, I got you, I got you because we live in a time where you can choose where that wasn't a thing. Back then you couldn't choose. You were, that's what you were, you know yeah, yeah, yeah I can choose not to be crow, I can just like yeah do it, you know yeah, that's strange, ain't it?

Shandin Pete 19:26

that is strange, that's a strange, strange thing, that is, and that's something I think people have never had to deal with.

Aaron Brien 19:33

I think we're probably the only the third or fourth generation really in our area that has to negotiate those. Yeah, before that, even the early reservation, people were probably just dealing with literal survival yeah, so like their process is a little different. They're dealing with literal survival yeah we're surviving right yeah I'm trying to think but where's it? So we can choose not to be crows, or choose not to be salish, or choose not? Yeah and just do what everybody else is doing yeah so maybe we're, we're not that's really, and yeah, and that way we're not like our ancestors.

Shandin Pete 20:14

You know, they didn't have to negotiate those things yeah, that's an odd thing I never even thought about. We can choose in the past, you couldn't, so that's. I guess that's kind of what you know. I don't know, man, I don't know.

Aaron Brien 20:30

Maybe that's what this, maybe that's this whole, and that's where your topic, maybe it's supposed to go. Is not the the end of human people? Are the the extinction of who we are, are, or? Really the extinction of who we are as a people. Yeah, we're entrusting tribal members to make the decision to be Native. Yeah, yeah.

Shandin Pete 20:58

Yeah, but then again, who's the we, who's the we are?

Aaron Brien 21:04

I think the people who are practicing Okay yeah, yeah, people that are hoping there's others doing it, and here's the thing is, we're losing.

Shandin Pete 21:15

Yeah, I mean.

Aaron Brien 21:17

I think the majority of Native people are choosing not to be practicing Natives.

Shandin Pete 21:22

Yeah yeah.

Aaron Brien 21:25

Or don't know how it could, because it like well, that's, that's, that's like semantics, though yeah, yeah, it's like, not a no, it's just, it's the it's if you look at it. Let's just pretend there's no gray area.

Shandin Pete 21:37

Yeah, you're either being native yeah and in a real, in the most realistic form that you can yeah, yeah, you're done, but well, yeah, well, but I mean, well, think about it. Um, like, someone can actively choose not to like they have opportunity, but they choose not to engage in that opportunity, whereas there's some who don't engage in that because they don't have the opportunity but that's just, that's a chronology thing, that's just means somebody made that decision before them.

Aaron Brien 22:15

So, okay, someone made the decision not to be before them, because usually your your environment is predicated on, especially your cultural environment is predicated on who you surround yourself with right or someone could have made that decision for that person and such as a residential school and those kind of things yep, yep yeah, yeah and so I think that's where people can get too far in the weeds is like they look at where that force came from yeah that's almost like shouldn't look at that no more.

Aaron Brien 22:49

I mean that's more for, like, mental health, right yeah? You got to look at the roots of problems. But when you're really just looking at doing and not doing, yeah it's like it comes down. It doesn't come down to anybody else yeah, you got to get out of that thinking. It comes down to you.

Navigating Cultural Learning and Extinction

Shandin Pete 23:05

Yeah, and doing anything. So, for example, would you?

Aaron Brien 23:09

yourself. You consider yourself a practitioner of Salish belief.

Shandin Pete 23:19

Yeah, I'd say yeah. From what? From the things that I know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Brien 23:24

Yeah.

Shandin Pete 23:25

Yeah.

Aaron Brien 23:26

Yeah, now would you say and I don't mean this to be controversial but was that all learned from your family?

Shandin Pete 23:34

No.

Aaron Brien 23:35

No, you made a decision right.

Shandin Pete 23:37

Yeah.

Aaron Brien 23:38

To seek out information.

Shandin Pete 23:39

Yeah, true. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Aaron Brien 23:43

So how come it was a path you were able to find, right, I was able to find.

Shandin Pete 23:51

Yeah.

Aaron Brien 23:53

I didn't learn everything from my family.

Shandin Pete 23:55

Yeah, I feel like this is kind of a counseling session now.

Aaron Brien 24:02

Does that mean? Others are exempt. Are they exempt?

Shandin Pete 24:06

No, and kind of weird that's.

Aaron Brien 24:08

I don't know the direction you're almost setting. Sean dean was like well, they don't have that offer. That opportunity is not placed in front of them. It wasn't always placed in front of you, was it?

Shandin Pete 24:18

right, yeah, all right, it's true, it's true but I do get what you're saying yeah yeah, yeah, yeah especially early on, when you're first learning yeah first trying going.

Aaron Brien 24:32

You really you almost need a culture buddy, you know yeah yeah, and there's those people.

Shandin Pete 24:37

Yeah, there's always those people. You know that. Just, they simply don't take no for an answer and they just they get right into it. They don't get discouraged. They don't let nothing stand in their way. They just go next thing. You know they're. They're a full-blown medicine man healing people.

Aaron Brien 24:55

No, I'm just kidding but you know well, that might be another. That's for another podcast, that's another.

Shandin Pete 24:59

Yeah, that's that's another thing.

Aaron Brien 25:01

But okay, I'll set the way well, we have to negotiate pace too yeah, which I don't think was ever a thing yeah, the pace in which you learn things yeah see, enculturation was real back then, right, so they just who they are. Yeah they're immersed in their environment. Their environment is culture. Yeah, and it's. I mean, that's a, that's a, that's actually a bad anthropological statement. What I? Just because everybody has culture.

Shandin Pete 25:28

Everybody has 100 culture every time, whether or not all the time. Yeah, six percent of the time, all the time 60 of the time.

Aaron Brien 25:38

It works all the time so if I if I said I'm gonna learn this now, right, okay, yeah, I'm going to learn man like think about it dude Did anyone teach you how to sing Cree round dance.

Shandin Pete 25:56

No, it's all self-taught. You listen to tape, it's all self-taught.

Aaron Brien 26:01

So you mean to tell me that you, as a Salish person from the Flathead Indian Reservation, can learn how to sing the Cree round dance style? What Cree round dance opportunity was put in front of you?

Shandin Pete 26:15

Yeah, not a lot, I mean here and there, but Not a lot, but you figured it out. Yeah.

Aaron Brien 26:21

So if you can figure out Cree round, dance, dance, can somebody with a blank slate figure out the basics of their own cultures? I guess I mean yeah nobody taught me how to drink fireball, and I figured that out. You know, nobody taught me how to order a shot at the bar, and I figured that out, okay okay, all right, you made your point okay, but let me bring this back to this idea of extinction oh yeah, where are we going?

Shandin Pete 26:57

I know, yeah, we want to talk about the end of days, end of days yeah, prophecies and the end of days yeah, that's the thing. So this is the thing. This is why I was thinking about this.

Aaron Brien 27:13

Sort of that idea. Salisha is now on the podcast.

Shandin Pete 27:16

What You're cutting out, what did you say?

Aaron Brien 27:23

So Salisha is here now, oh Salisha.

Shandin Pete 27:25

Oh yeah, salisha, so we're talking about Rephrase the question.

Aaron Brien 27:28

Yeah, yeah.

Exploring Morality and Cultural Prophecy

Shandin Pete 27:30

This is the thing. So, in considering the things that are best in life, like the things you strive to do as a person, as a cultural group, to do as a person as a cultural group, uh, are those things facilitated by a philosophy of extinction, like this idea that we are at the beginning of the end? And I was going to transition in but you did it for me into like prophecy, right? So a lot of native or indigenous prophecy is about like the end, like I. I remember hearing one um, soon as all indians start speaking the same language, it's the end, it's going to be the end.

Shandin Pete 28:13

But you brought in an interesting concept which I was going to bring up too. Is that, what does the end mean? The end? Is it a literal end, like the earth stops rotating and we spin off into the, into the wherever, or does it mean like the end of a end of a, like you said, the, the cultural portion of what we are? But that's, that's the question we got. We got to talking about prophecy and culture and all that business you just got talking about. But this idea then, and I don't know if this makes sense, but I had this question because it relates and I don't know how it relates, oh no, I know how it relates, but I see how you think it relates. So think about what's good in life, being guided by this idea of the beginning, of the end. I don't know if that's true or not, but think about it. And then think about this question do indigenous people, native people, do we seek to find moral perfection? Go? No, that was an easy one.

Aaron Brien 29:28

We don't. What does Salish think?

Shandin Pete 29:32

oh, we can't hear you.

Salisha Old Bull 29:34

You're muted what's moral perfection?

Shandin Pete 29:42

yeah, what is I? Okay, so what is moral perfection? So moral perfection, or, I guess, morality, you could think of, as you know, your standards of behavior, your, your belief concerning what is the acceptable thing to do?

Aaron Brien 29:59

I'm going to be honest, I don't understand your question.

Salisha Old Bull 30:04

You're saying something about. If it's the end, are we seeking moral perfection?

Shandin Pete 30:11

Okay, all right, so let's talk about the end first. So the end means, or can mean, like things cease to exist, right? You get that part, though, right, the end meaning oh, that's what it means no, no, no, that's one meaning oh the end means if end means if we're talking indigenous or native philosophical I don't know if that's what it even means, but Aaron brought up this interesting thing that I think is good to point out is that the end does not always mean the physical end of things.

Aaron Brien 30:54

It may mean a transition out of a current state of affairs that well I mean I, I said I think that's where we got into the identity talk, yeah, but uh, it could. It could also mean I said I was, I said said some prophecies or whatever, but those could literally just mean the end of who we are as a people, like we might just be like everybody else yeah, because I also don't. I don't, I don't know I just can't imagine people sitting.

Aaron Brien 31:36

people sitting around talking about the end of days outside of certain factions of the church. Yeah, I heard that it's like the church.

Shandin Pete 31:45

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Aaron Brien 31:47

Yeah, but I mean not so much of traditional. People are not saying they don't. I mean, I'm not privy to every single conversation, sure by every sure in my experience yeah most of um things that are talked about like in ceremonial life are typically like prosperity things right, the idea of asking for good fortune and yeah it's not like saying like we only have a limited time. Help us be good because we're only on this year. Like I don't hear that too often, I don't yeah, I don't know.

Aaron Brien 32:20

And as far as morality within, within that, um, yeah, I think that, at least for the crows, traditionally, or our view of morality was very different than that of Christendom. Sure, because I think we're heavily influenced by the church. We are heavily influenced by the church, so our view of morality today, even for the most traditional people, is still probably pretty influenced by the church.

Shandin Pete 32:56

Right Meaning what, for the most traditional people, is still probably pretty influenced by the church. Right meaning meaning, what meaning I mean? Okay, so what? So what would be the just from your understanding? What would be the current understanding of what that is then, even that of that of which is influenced by the church?

Aaron Brien 33:17

well, let's go through the 10 commandments oh, okay, okay, okay, no, you don't need those 10 commandments, not a thing for most native people in our, in the plains, in the rockies, like it's not a thing they're they're concerned about you know okay, okay so the, the other god's idea, like our morality is, is highly influenced too on like the concept of spirituality, right?

Aaron Brien 33:45

so yeah, monotheism, yeah, monotheism, the belief in one god yeah, right, yeah but having one God and what you pray to are two different things, where in a Christian morality that can't be, you can't have that, except in the case of Jesus Christ, there's an intercessor right. So it's this weird little balance.

Shandin Pete 34:08

Yeah, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, yeah.

Aaron Brien 34:11

Yeah, but that can't be the case for Native people. So our morality, traditionally, is challenged all the time, which is interesting because we're probably one of the few people on Earth that our morality is in a constant state of justification. So there's things inherent in us, because your morality is an innate behavior, it's like something that's part of you, it's enculturated, it's groomed from your environment. All that, sure, but our morality is questioned all the time by ourselves and by our surroundings. I don't know if that's the case.

Aaron Brien 34:48

uh, it's pretty linear meaning like connect the dots yeah, yeah, actually like europeans in the church, right, because that's the origins of the church, and sure and then? But with us. If you were to say, okay, if you were to look at the sun and you say I want to make a wish to the sun for most native people, if you say that to them, it freaks them out a little bit. There's a little thing in them, even though they might. They want to agree with you, they like. So their morality's in check all the time. Their ethics are in check all the time. Well, I don't think that's the case with. I could be wrong. No, I'm just talking.

Shandin Pete 35:29

I'll stop now no, this is interesting. This is interesting because, um. No, this is interesting. This is interesting because, um, sort of what I was building on was this this connection between um, like the idea that things are going to end, so you ought to behave and exhibit a certain moral standard so that, when things do end, that you had achieved, I guess, the closest you can get to what it means to be a human in a way. That's okay, that's kind of a weird connection, but but you, you just kind of mentioned it in in a particular way, because that's sort of how, from my understanding of the church and of things, is that there's these things that say the end of days are coming. Right, is that a thing? Maybe, I don't know, is that right?

Shandin Pete 36:28

The church kind of says these things are coming to an end, so you ought to behave in a certain way so that you can ensure that you go to uh I mean yeah, like in a nutshell, yeah, and like a pretty uh basic yeah, and then there's, there's certain books that predict the end of the world and, in order to get right, you do steps a, b and c yeah, yeah, that's real general, yeah, yeah.

Shandin Pete 36:50

And then when you get to c see, after you're dead and gone, then you're thought of to be in heaven and you're the ideal person, right? It's a place where everything's perfect, meaning the way that you act, the way that you think and behave is perfect. You're free from any moral defect, you think and behave is perfect, yeah, free from any moral defect. And I and I was just, and I was just curious this is so. This is the curiosity that I had going all the way back to the beginning is is because, okay, I guess we first have to agree on did. Did native people think that there was a end and that we want, we want to achieve certain things before the end comes, because then that might drive us to do certain things to ensure that, whatever happens at the end, that everything's going to be okay.

Aaron Brien 37:52

Man, that's a tough one, because for one I don't want to assume. I know what every native was thinking throughout history, but it looked like salisha wanted to say something yeah I don't know.

Salisha Old Bull 38:03

I think there's too many levels to all those questions let's break it down.

Shandin Pete 38:10

Yeah, let's break down, okay. Okay, you start at the beginning. Okay, let's break it down.

Salisha Old Bull 38:14

The first part is dependent on your motivation in life. So if you're trying to live that type of life, like whatever you guys were talking about when I came on here, you're trying to live a certain life, you're trying to learn your ways, you're trying to do that in life. You're trying to, you're trying to learn your ways, you're trying to do that. There's that. That's the first um variable, because then there's people who don't care. They don't want to, they don't care about, they just want to do what they want to do. They don't want to go off for no tobacco or do none of that, they just want to live a plain life. They don't even go to church, they're just living life right.

Shandin Pete 38:56

Yeah, work, raise kids.

Salisha Old Bull 38:58

So there's the range, there's a range of that, and then in the other part you're talking about the moral, the right or wrong situation. I think this is like real simple, but I think everybody wakes up and wants to be a good person well, yeah everybody, everybody wow, I know some people everybody wakes up.

Salisha Old Bull 39:25

No, like if you. If you, I'm sure nobody wakes up and oh, I'm a piece of crap. When they wake up, you know everybody. When they wake up by themselves, like you're, imagine you all by yourself, they think they're a good person. So this effort to have some sort of peace in their life is sort of like the goal, because you're always just trying to kind of have some peace going on in your life, like you don't want to be having all these crazy thoughts, you don't want to be having no drama. They want to be having no drama.

Salisha Old Bull 39:54

So of course then, if you factor in the range of the type of person that they are like, if they're trying to be real, spiritual or not, that's going to factor into where they're headed with that situation, Because if they don't care about nothing, of course they're not going to care if they're moral or not. Like that's not an issue, that's not a thing for them.

Salisha Old Bull 40:16

It's just about more of a self-serving situation, you know. But if they're, if they're trying to be spiritual and you factor in all that stuff, like all the stuff you try to do to have good things come back to you, yeah, um, yeah, you're trying to live a moral life, sure, if you have that pursuit, right?

Salisha Old Bull 40:41

yeah, and that in that, that pursuit okay, well on the last part that you guys are talking about the end of whatever is, I kind of see what erin's coming from and I think I'm there like I. I see it that way because, if you think behind us like I tend to be somebody who is always looking at what has already happened to sort of help move forward in life um, there was all these eras of times when people had predicted something coming or something, but it was never like yellowstone blew up, it was never like the end of the world, it was always like some weird like end of the of that cultural situation, you know, and then they would do something and then it was like a transition and then for something else, yeah, yeah so I feel like an end.

Salisha Old Bull 41:39

I sort of feel that only because, like I've heard stuff like that, like I heard somebody tell me one time when I was a kid that their grandma told them that when we had to start buying water, that that was the end, and uh that was like. I mean, I grew up before we were really buying bottled water like that wasn't a thing when I was younger, you know yeah so um oh boy, this is a lot.

Aaron Brien 42:08

This is a lot but it's all based on I can't hear you oh it's, it's all based on, like individuals still, though, because like everybody's morality, because we're influenced by so many different things now yeah everyone's morality is different. That means everyone's perception of the world is going to be like got some kind of skew to it. You know. It's not like there's less uniformity in the sense that, like, like, the salish worldview is in flux right now.

Aaron Brien 42:40

Right, I'd say yeah yeah, where 200 years ago it wasn't necessarily, or 300 years ago, like it's just like I'd say all indigenous worldviews, at least in north america are in flux. Yeah yeah, I'm kind of getting out of that whole world. Indigenous thought. Don't remember I called you the other day, freaked out.

Shandin Pete 43:04

Oh yeah. You don't like worldview, no more.

Aaron Brien 43:09

Well, I mean no, no, no. Meaning like all the same or all people from oh yeah well, I'm not gonna pretend to know what the aborigines think yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shandin Pete 43:28

Rocky mountain plains yeah framework of the world.

Aaron Brien 43:33

I'm more comfortable staying in that area.

Shandin Pete 43:37

Okay, yeah, okay On the turtle.

Aaron Brien 43:43

Stay on the left shoulder of the turtle. This is like a really clunky topic.

Exploring Cultural Beliefs and Mortality

Shandin Pete 43:52

It is Well okay. So, like I said, salisha broke it down a bit, and so the first thing we have to understand is the thing you brought up, and we have to, we have to, we have to, um, clearly understand what the end means. And now we I bet you can go to any native across the left shoulder of the turtle, any native, and they're going to tell you the story that Salisha just said, but in a different version. Oh yeah, my grandma said, oh yeah, my uncle's grandpa said that the end of the world.

Aaron Brien 44:32

My grandma said when the river was stopped yeah, we're gonna cease to exist and then, they think that's the dams, you know yeah, yeah, yeah, and and even even.

Shandin Pete 44:43

I mean, if you talk to any salish person, they're gonna probably cite old shining shirt and his prophecy of when things, that things were going to end at this particular time. Um, so I? So first there's that, but there's the misunderstanding of what? Well, the potential misunderstanding of that and how that misunderstanding was, uh, maybe, uh, influenced by church things, but I don't know. None of us lived back then, so I don't know. So then that, so that's okay.

Shandin Pete 45:25

That's that gets confusing, because then then you have to draw the next, and I don't know what you think about this. You have to draw the next line to this idea of how to act morally. Just like Salisha was saying, everybody wakes up and wants to do something good, don't want to be a crummy person, kind of want to do some good things. So what drives that? Because if we're thinking about the end and our end as an individual could come any time we want to have things in order so that when we go to wherever we need to go, that we're going to be okay there, like we're going to be accepted, I guess. So I don't know if that's exactly true, if this is heavily influenced by church things.

Shandin Pete 46:22

So back to this idea of what is good in life. What is good in life? Maybe we get a good understanding of what sort of what drives. What drives our ambition and our pursuits forward If we're always thinking, well, okay, there's an end coming and I want to get my affairs in order so that everything will be fine when I reach my end. I don't know if that's the thing that drives us, us native people in the left shoulder of turtle island I would say no, even today, we don't.

Aaron Brien 47:00

We don't talk about the end even of our own uh, more, uh mortality, okay, and that that's evident in the probate process on reservations. You know what? People don't plan, people don't plan.

Shandin Pete 47:15

Oh yeah.

Aaron Brien 47:17

So that has to come from somewhere, because in that sense it doesn't come from the church, because the church is like contrary to what I said earlier, I'm contradictory myself.

Shandin Pete 47:29

Okay.

Aaron Brien 47:29

The church does talk a lot about the end of the earth, the end of humanity, the end of time, the end of humanity, the end of time, the end um rapture, leaving, leaving, yeah, this earthly form, all that. So there's there is a constant state of of the end and there's this notion that you prepare yourself for that time.

Aaron Brien 47:54

yeah, the point where, like contemporary christians have called the Bible basic instructions before leaving earth. Really, yeah, and there's the old saying to be from the body is to be present with the Lord. So it's this idea that as soon as you're gone, you're in heaven. So there's this constant state of talking about the end of your life, but with Native people idea that as soon as you're gone you're in heaven. So there's this constant state of like, yeah, talking about the the end of your life, yeah, so, but with native people it's so taboo to wish bad to to to wheel things into existence, don't talk about that.

Shandin Pete 48:31

We don't want that to happen, you know, yeah, don't play with crutches, so don't play in the wheelchair, don't play with crutches, don't play in a wheelchair, don't, don't, don't talk about dying, you know, don't yeah, so to the point where it's to our own detriment because we're not realistic about our mortality.

Aaron Brien 48:50

You know, right, right, right this is a heavy topic like what are you doing here, man?

Shandin Pete 48:57

Well, I'm curious about this thing that seems to drive the religious ideas of what's right, and it's this idea.

Aaron Brien 49:09

There's an old pro saying. There's a saying Especially it was pretty popular in the early part of the reservation. I don't hear many people say it now, but you hear reference to it and they used to say I practice my native belief, I practice Crow tradition for my life now, so I can have things Literally, they'll say it so I can have things. I go to church so I can go to heaven. Yeah, so there's this thing where they'll say the church is for the dead Crow belief is for the living.

Aaron Brien 49:50

Okay, okay, and I think you apply that statement to a lot of tribes. They'll say, like my, look at their beliefs, their practices. It's all about good fortune, prosperity, good wealth, literal things, you know.

Aaron Brien 50:05

Yeah, pray the plants, you know like making wishes for your future and for your loved ones, and giving away gifts and all that. It's all about the group, it's all about the next day. They'll say so you, um, may you see a long life. You know, yeah, make a wish for some like something like what you see. May you see your grandchildren you know what I? Mean. So it's like the idea that you, you always wishing good and doing that and your ceremonies are a product of that. Ritual and ceremony are like the catapult for those things.

Shandin Pete 50:49

Yeah, a vessel.

Aaron Brien 50:52

Now, when you go to church, it's just a state of prepping to die. When you go to church, it's just this state of prepping to die. It's to the point where we glorify the place that's not here, so it can really create a state of complacency on earth. I mean, my rewards will be in human. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. So everything is this constant like yeah it's like I gotta be dead for it to be good.

Aaron Brien 51:27

Yeah, you know what I mean yeah yeah, in fact you could even say, with native belief, you're starting over all the time yeah you could even like I'm going into the sweat when I come out.

Shandin Pete 51:42

I'm reborn yeah, yeah yeah, that fresh, you know yeah, idea, when the sun comes back up. You got another chance do it again.

Aaron Brien 51:53

You gotta do it again exactly.

Shandin Pete 51:55

Yeah, yeah. When the solstice hits, you've got another chance to redo your year Start over.

Aaron Brien 52:03

Turn it around now. The sun's going to turn around now, yeah, and so we're going to. It's good now we can make good wishes and we're starting over, yeah. So this is interesting. I just thought of this in in the moment. So that means in terms of mental health, yeah, if you're raised with that mentality, that means that whatever problems you're carrying from day before, yeah your approach to life. The next day would be like it's a new day. I'm gonna yeah, we're gonna move away from those things you know.

Aaron Brien 52:35

Yeah, but in the idea not to combat the church, but just this idea that you're in sin. You've missed the mark. Yeah, that I messed up. I have to seek forgiveness for this and I'm in a constant state of how do I fix it.

Shandin Pete 52:56

Yeah. I messed up, guilt.

Aaron Brien 52:59

My world is shocked. I have to right the wrong where there is. I mean there's wrongs in native belief. But the way you hold on to wrongs are different.

Shandin Pete 53:09

Yeah.

Aaron Brien 53:10

Carry wrongs are different.

Shandin Pete 53:13

It's true.

Aaron Brien 53:14

It's true.

Shandin Pete 53:16

No, you're right on, you're going for it, man, so that that brings about a whole different meaning, just like you said about what it means to be a person, to be a human on this earth. It's not, it's not, I mean it's. I guess it's somewhat unfair to use the backdrop of the church to to to frame up what, what I don't think it's unfair because it's.

Aaron Brien 53:40

It's all we know, it's the two, it's the two, the two truths that we understand as native people. There's this natural truth that was given to us from our creation. Yeah, then there was the introduced truth. Sure, I'll even go on record saying I'm not against the beliefs of the church.

Shandin Pete 54:00

Yeah.

Aaron Brien 54:01

But there's no question that they're foreign to us. Yeah. Yeah, so when you grow up in Indian country and people say like well, you're mad at the church or you're against the church, yeah Well those are my only options.

Shandin Pete 54:19

You get so in it, I guess. So you know what I mean.

Aaron Brien 54:22

Yeah, so it's kind of like if a guy got his heart broke by women all his life and then it'd be like this guy hates women. Well, that's his environment, that's the environment that was created for him, like his pain comes from his experiences with women.

Shandin Pete 54:41

That doesn't mean he's against women.

Aaron Brien 54:42

But that's his knowledge base. That's what he's going to talk about, right? Just like, if you don't drive a car and you only ride a bike and you wreck on your bike, you have nothing negative to say about cars, but you but because? But you're always on a bike and I'm like, I'm always wrecking my bike, you know so it's our two truths are the church and our native belief. Those are our two truths.

Shandin Pete 55:02

You're on a river man.

Aaron Brien 55:05

Well, I'm trying to keep you away from this confusing topic. But you actually explained how this is possible in another episode with your underlying delirium dual magistrate.

Shandin Pete 55:24

Whatever that is. What was that called Non-overlapping? Magisteria?

Aaron Brien 55:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, remember correctly conceptually, it's an idea that two truths can happen simultaneously. Correct, correct, yeah, so that means that people can live in that duality right and people can negotiate the duality and they do the social science is, in, of all the experiments, native people. One thing we've proven is that whether it's good or bad is not the question, it's the fact that can we live within those two truths? And we have right.

Shandin Pete 56:09

Yeah.

Aaron Brien 56:10

So that means, when our criticisms come out about the church and or about our Native beliefs, that's neither good or bad, because that's our only truth. Those are the only two data sets we can work from.

Shandin Pete 56:22

Yeah, I have no business making comments about islam yeah you know what I mean no, I do know what you mean. Yeah, and I forgot what I was going to say about it.

Aaron Brien 56:35

So when you said when you said we shouldn't come at church, like that I mean. But no, we should, because that's the only thing we have experienced.

Shandin Pete 56:46

But I was not saying exactly that. I was just trying to say I want, I want. Well, I guess even what I was saying is sort of described by what you said. Even what I was saying is sort of described by what you said. I was trying to pull the backdrop of the church off to try to understand what us natives think of as something that is human. Like what do we conceive as this thing? Like what's best in life? Like for us, if we look at a human and say, oh, that person, that's the best things in life, right, what they did, right there. But trying to pull it from the backdrop of the church to say, well, I don't want to think about that influence and I want to know. I want to peer back 6 000 years and say, well, what were they thinking back then and did they have this?

Aaron Brien 57:35

overarching idea of that of extinction.

Shandin Pete 57:39

What? What did you say? Yellow fat, yellow fat, yellow fat, but but but were you warm?

Cultural Wisdom and Language Shorthand

Aaron Brien 57:46

were you warm? Yeah were you? Were you fed? Could you sit and relax and stare at the stars? That means you did all your work that day yeah, you did everything you needed to do, so you can stay simple, simplicity yeah I I equate good fortune with simplicity, meaning like, yeah, if I have a good life, it means I can relax yeah if I'm in the brain state of moving forward even in the brain, even in the brain that ebbs and flows right

Aaron Brien 58:16

yeah there's times where I can't relax, I can't, and that's a whole nother episode, and that's probably not for this. It's, that's for my counselor, right that's for your counselor.

Aaron Brien 58:28

That's for your counselor we've all dealt with that. Where I think, in the way I see good fortune, yeah, to be lucky, to be a lucky person is can I, can I sit at my own table and drink my own coffee and be able to relax, you know, without having to think too much about if I'm, if I'm pulled down and and and burdened by tasks that haven't happened yet? I think that stressful life and that ebbs and flows, though, because I would say right now, that's how I am Like I don't feel in that. In that sense I don't feel super lucky because I have a list of things I got to get done, you know. But in one sense I'm the way crow crow people historically believed this is if, if you had accomplishments and those accomplishments, yeah, were witness they'll say that person is lucky, their head, they have good fortune. Yeah, and the more you're seen as someone who's fortunate, the more you're used in the community and but when you're unfortunate, when you're riddled with misfortune, they'll say nobody knows your name yeah yeah, so.

Aaron Brien 59:47

So maybe that's a sign nobody's calling your name anymore, calling you to for advice, or nobody's calling your name for a giveaway, or nobody's asking you to come to this event. Yeah, and we can call them haters, we can say all this stuff, but in the most basic sense of our reality is that we're misfortunate. We have misfortune. Unfortunate, yeah, because it's not a question of the root of that problem.

Aaron Brien 1:00:17

It's more of a question of the result of it so like it doesn't matter if you're broke, you're right, it doesn't matter the reasons and you can blame everybody else and you, but the result is you're broke. So it's like you have misfortune. In the same sense, it's like, yeah, if, if I even know what we're talking about, but I'll let you guys talk, I'm gonna be like you have those moments where you're like I believe I've gone too far.

Shandin Pete 1:00:49

I think I've said too much. Nobody's listening anymore. I must be unfortunate, no yesterday.

Aaron Brien 1:00:58

Yesterday I was listening to a little bit of Noam Chomsky and Scott Mamaday. And we've riddled some Farrakhan and Cornel West so I'm feeling a bit rambunctious.

Salisha Old Bull 1:01:13

Riddled.

Shandin Pete 1:01:14

Riddled, riddled me this, riddled me this riddle me this.

Aaron Brien 1:01:22

No, I side note real quick, real quick time out okay, timing out we gotta, we gotta line up. Did you ever notice there's a whole generation of like elders that speak like badass english? Uh, yeah like very articulate they are, yeah, like the way they talk english is better than their kids and their grandkids.

Aaron Brien 1:01:44

Oh, yeah and, and so me and miranda were talking about this. So I was, um, I showed her, we were, I showed her noam chomsky, and so we started talking about noam chomsky and we started talking about Scott Malmedy and then I got into this Farrakhan thing. So that's where that I had a Crow elder say to me one time. He said he said it would behoove you that's what he said it would behoove you to provide a meal for these elders, as they may be a bit reticent to share knowledge, what, what.

Salisha Old Bull 1:02:24

Let's back up, not Whoville, not Whoville Rewind.

Aaron Brien 1:02:33

I was like what?

Shandin Pete 1:02:35

Nobody talks that way, what the doctor Seuss is going on here, let me just Google that I was like what?

Salisha Old Bull 1:02:37

Nobody talks that way. Let me just Google that. Yeah, how do you?

Aaron Brien 1:02:46

even spell in English Who've?

Salisha Old Bull 1:02:49

you.

Aaron Brien 1:02:50

Behoove.

Salisha Old Bull 1:02:51

Behoove Is that what you're saying.

Shandin Pete 1:02:55

I thought you said oh behoove.

Salisha Old Bull 1:02:59

Behoove.

Shandin Pete 1:03:00

Not dehoove, dehoove. Is that what you're saying? I?

Salisha Old Bull 1:03:01

thought you said oh be, who be, who not do. I thought you said whoville to do isn't that um sam. I am from sam, I am From Sam, I am now he has to log on on his phone he probably.

Shandin Pete 1:03:42

He probably hit the. He probably hit the X button because he was laughing so hard. Was he laughing?

Salisha Old Bull 1:03:48

wait, yeah, he was laughing so hard, he was moving all over the place I don't know what happened there you laughed yourself off the zoom you laughed yourself off it would beho yourself off, it would behoove you to charge your laptop

Aaron Brien 1:04:04

nobody's gonna know that you guys, you gotta edit that whole part out we're not doing that no, we're.

Shandin Pete 1:04:10

It would behoove. I would be behoove in. I'm being out. I'm reticent to edit that out. Would behoove you to provide a meal for these elders?

Aaron Brien 1:04:22

as a baby.

Salisha Old Bull 1:04:25

Was he mad at you?

Aaron Brien 1:04:27

No, he was giving me advice. That's how he talks all the time. That's how he talks all the time.

Salisha Old Bull 1:04:36

Wait, wait, wait, behoove, wait, wait, wait, behoove, wait, wait I'm not gonna say any names but, there was another story, yeah, where where, um?

Aaron Brien 1:04:47

they came up and said uh, ask this individual, how do you say the word for car in crow? And he said well, what does that mean? And then he said it means moves upon its own volition.

Shandin Pete 1:05:09

Wait a minute. How do you say volition in?

Aaron Brien 1:05:12

crow it's in there. It's moved by itself, moves on its own right moves on its own.

Shandin Pete 1:05:24

That's a word you use a lot.

Salisha Old Bull 1:05:25

I don't know if you know that volition he probably has a calendar on his desk that has all the vocabulary.

Aaron Brien 1:05:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I use that word a lot because of this conversation, that's like that's like in the 90s, when it became a joke it's like in the 90s

Shandin Pete 1:05:45

when when the popular word came out in the r&b song then everybody started using it. Prerogative it's your prerogative it's like clueless.

Salisha Old Bull 1:05:57

It's like clueless, the movie. You know, when she says sporadic, I hope not sporadically, yeah then a whole generation.

Aaron Brien 1:06:04

That's more from my, that's more from my time. I think prerogative is like for the early 90s yeah, first grade, oh yes, my prerogative first grade first grad graders saying that Anyway, I thought that would be the sidebar of that, because I've been noticing this there's a group of elders from their mid-70s to their mid-80s. The way they speak English is pretty impeccable.

Shandin Pete 1:06:32

There's a lot Not everyone.

Aaron Brien 1:06:34

It's not across the board, but I've run across this a lot. I don't know if you remember the late daryl kip yeah, from brown, and he was the same way.

Shandin Pete 1:06:43

Could speak like amazing english, yeah you know that was probably from that time when there was a lot of pressure to be like you know, to be educated to be like the like, the, the dominant folks yeah I'm guessing they're also from a time too and academics were like philosophy, oh yeah, and literature, a huge creative writing was like big so they're influenced, influenced a lot by pontificating oh, yeah, yeah. It ain't like today, where they give phds just to anybody they also were the first ones to see colored.

Salisha Old Bull 1:07:22

They were also the first ones to see colored tv. They also know stuff about the Transatlantic accent. What, okay, whoa.

Aaron Brien 1:07:44

Let's go back to talking about the end of the world.

Shandin Pete 1:07:46

Yeah, let's go. Yeah, they also understood shorthand.

Salisha Old Bull 1:07:51

They could tell you.

Aaron Brien 1:07:52

Yeah, that's so hard you ever run a? I'm sure you do because of your ethnographic studies stuff when you go into archives you run into like shorthand notes, huh oh man so difficult to read who did? I know, yeah, you need someone to cipher it yeah, I know yeah do you ever run into where? Uh, these old ethnographers didn't want to like say certain things, so they would say they would write it in Latin. Yeah.

Shandin Pete 1:08:21

Yeah, then I got to figure out what the heck does that mean? There was one I was looking at too.

Shandin Pete 1:08:27

I can't remember what the word was, but I had to look it up and I couldn't even find it on a search engine. I had to go like deep into like a J store search to figure out what this latin word meant yeah, for a language that's not supposed to change ever, you can't find unified spot spelling for it you know, I know, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, I can't even remember where we're at now. I don't know where we're at I don't know.

Aaron Brien 1:08:54

To be honest, I think you need to cut that whole first half hour. Why. It's really clunky. It's such a weird conversation to have. Maybe the fact that we couldn't have the conversation is a good indication of where native thinking is no. I didn't even know how to talk about it no.

Shandin Pete 1:09:15

I needed to set this up because there's this thing, man, there's this thing going on. He's getting at something. I was trying to finally get to the thing. Okay, there's this talking for an hour. There's this thing, man, get to it. There's this thing, it's like this.

Shandin Pete 1:09:32

This idea, well, you know, climate change, global warming, there's this. I mean, everybody faces this in school, kids face it in school. But it even bleeds into indigenous scholarship, like this indigenous idea of the global extinction crisis or whatever. And so then people are trying to understand well, what does extinction mean from an indigenous lens? Now, of course, indigenous means a lot of different things, but I wanted to try to establish well, how do we think about even the idea of extinction? And we just we went down a road and we seen that, yeah, I mean we don't think about it much. Seen that, yeah, I mean we don't think about it much, we don't, we don't, we don't consider it, because it doesn't even come into our idea of what makes like a good moral person, because that good moral person is, uh, is um, contingent upon the here and now, not for the preparation of the end.

Aaron Brien 1:10:38

Yeah, I mean that's a good point. That sums it up. That sums it up. I made that full circle.

Shandin Pete 1:10:47

Yeah, that sums it up. So then, how do we respond? So, if somebody asks you hey, aaron, help us with this plan to develop an understanding of how natives from your area think about the ideas of extinction?

Aaron Brien 1:11:13

It'd be a pretty short conversation. I don't think we think about it too often, but, um, you could say that this, this, this is being asked of us right now, with the whole traditional ecological knowledge and like this idea that it's a response to something that's happening in the natural world, yeah, all of a sudden, they're going to get fractionated knowledge to try to fix a problem that was caused by us.

Shandin Pete 1:11:35

Yeah, yeah.

Aaron Brien 1:11:37

It's so bizarre. It's hard because I don't think the traditional native thinks in the sense that the world ends when we do. I think that we're participants in the planet and that our time may come and go, but that's of no bearing to what happens in the planet. But that's, that's Of no bearing To what happens In the planet.

Shandin Pete 1:11:59

You know Right Right.

Aaron Brien 1:12:01

That makes sense Right.

Shandin Pete 1:12:03

It does yeah, it does, it does yeah. So I don't know, it's, it's a it's it seems To me To be me uh, provide a great deal of misrepresentation, simply because even even the idea of our prophecies might be getting twisted, even by our own people, about what that means, like what the end means. Yes, yeah, so that's. That was my whole point. That's my whole point.

Aaron Brien 1:12:31

I'm not cutting out the first half like that, though I know that was a good ask. What you just said right there, that was, that was good yeah, but see it would have been a really short episode.

Podcast Topic Creation and Cultural Reflections

Shandin Pete 1:12:43

But I had to understand first of all the idea of the prophecy, otherwise nobody would know, nobody understand. I have to understand, understand the idea of what it means to be a morally good person, otherwise people wouldn't understand. And it's not driven by or we can just what? Go ahead, go ahead. It's just not driven by the idea of things coming to an end. Okay, now say what are you gonna say?

Aaron Brien 1:13:07

do it or we could just announce the truth that you didn't have a podcast idea and as soon as you press record, you started thinking about something and that's what came up. So you didn't totally hash it out, you had to do it while we were talking. No, that is not true don't, don't, don't lie, because I know, I know you, shanee. And then when I said, say lisha, jump on in 30 minutes, you thought now I have to come up with a topic where she can be included.

Aaron Brien 1:13:36

No so then you had to like the wheels had to turn.

Shandin Pete 1:13:40

No, here's my notes man. I thought of this.

Aaron Brien 1:13:45

Did you see my notes? You typed that while we were talking. I did not.

Shandin Pete 1:13:49

I typed that while we were talking.

Speaker 4 1:13:54

I'm just playing, I know, but no, that does happen. I think part of it is.

Shandin Pete 1:13:59

Yeah, I'm just playing, I know, but no, that does happen part of it. Yeah, that does happen in a lot of the evolution of what we talk about happens sort of on the fly. So you're true, you're right.

Aaron Brien 1:14:04

Okay, go ahead yeah, no, I, but I I do think our audience uh needs to know, though, how smart you are and that you can come up with a podcast topic like this. Most people aren't going to, though most people aren't going to sit around. They're going to talk about fry bread, and matriarchs.

Salisha Old Bull 1:14:25

Yeah, you know, yeah, changing the first letter on a word and then thinking it's revolutionary, oh my gosh, what, what do you slam?

Aaron Brien 1:14:36

you know, patriot patriarch and matriarch well, we're gonna rematriate and not repatriate. First of all, I don't I don't know if the result is the same, does it matter what the word is called? Anyway, I don't know.

Salisha Old Bull 1:14:52

I think that's, that's, that's yeah that's another one I want to talk about. Let's talk about fried bread and donuts.

Shandin Pete 1:15:01

Oh yeah, what's the difference between an?

Aaron Brien 1:15:05

elephant ear and a fried bread. Anyway, my question One has more sugar. One has more sugar. I'm all on board for that, yeah.