He’s one of hockey’s all-time greats and he’s got goals well beyond what he accomplished in a Hall of Fame NHL career.
The former league MVP, Chris Pronger goes one on one with host Kraig Kann in this wide open conversation about what it took to reach hockey stardom and what motivates him now. What got him on the ice as a youngster? Why some NHL cities felt more like home than others, what the business of professional hockey can do to a family and why this superstar defenseman is so inspired to be on the offensive with his new travel business.
A Stanley Cup winner, 2-time Olympic gold medalist and now a businessman who tells you what he has left to prove to himself and how years on the ice and leading teammates has proven so valuable to his new business venture.
Filled with stories and the real behind the scenes life of a sports superstar. It’s a can’t miss episode of Tracks To Success. Enjoy!
Welcome to Tracks. To Success brought to you by presentation partners. This is the podcast that brings you inspiring people, and they're inspiring stories. How did they find their way to the top? And How can their path help you do the same? Here's your host network, broadcaster, executive and entrepreneur. Kraig Kann
Right now on this edition of Tracks To Success you'll meet one of hockey's all time greats, whose goal has actually changed now that his hall of fame playing days are over. He played for five different teams, was captain on three of them. And one a Stanley Cup with one of them, six times in NHL Allstar. He has a couple of gold medals to a highlight for a Canadian born star who really left nothing on a sheet. He made players better. He made coaches, winners. He made cities fall in love. Well, most of them, but he hasn't skated off to the land of the unmotivated or uninvolved far from him.
1 (1m 12s):
He's a senior advisor for an NHL team and an entrepreneur with his wife, running a travel business. You need to, those who need something uplifting and mind altering, he's taken his best shot at bringing memories to people, not just vacations. So what's it like to have the weight of his Citi on your professional shoulders? How tough is it to hit the ice, hit others and stay healthy so that a second career is actually an option. And what made him take the leap into entrepreneurship? His name is Chris Pronger is inspiring story.
1 (1m 52s):
And this addition of Tracks To Success starts now in 2017, he was named one of the 100 greatest hockey players in NHL history is a pleasure Chris Pronger to have you on Tracks To Success thanks so much for being a part of this. How you doing? I'm doing great. Thanks for having me now. This is fantastic. It's all my pleasure. I'm a hockey fan. It's great to have one of the grates on this program. I think your story Chris is compelling for many reasons, obviously, beyond winning a Stanley cup or a gold medal are the great career that you had because of what you're doing now, which we're going to get into a little bit, cause there's a shift from hockey to being an entrepreneur.
1 (2m 40s):
And I love that, but let's start with the kind of day in the life of Chris Pronger right now. Like what does Chris Pronger do on a day to day basis now that he doesn't have hockey rinks to go to A let's see A in or out of school. If we're in school, if the kids are in school or we're up probably
2 (3m 0s):
At six 15, six, six 15, and then A start making my breakfast, making kids breakfast out of a cup of coffee, shake the cobwebs off and then a get them off to school, go mics in a quick workout. And then A start my day. Making phone calls answered emails, you know, really just trying to, to keep, continue to build our business and, you know, make connections and contacts and talk to referrals and people that a, that are interested in having conversations.
3 (3m 36s):
Well, that's how this all got started for all of our listeners, a little LinkedIn between Kraig Kann and Chris Pronger, which is pretty cool. Now you said shaken out the cobwebs. I think you've done that a timer too, in your life based on our hockey career, which we're going to get To so tell me this. What are you miss most? Is it the guys or is it the games?
2 (3m 60s):
I don't miss waking up sore. I'm already sore right now, but really, really sore. You know, I think everybody that, that plays a professional sport and, and at the highest level, always miss the locker room, the camaraderie, all that stuff. And I think really a lot of people that played at a high level mystic that competitive nature and competition, you know, a lot of times when you move on past your career in, into a second, third, fourth career, you're searching for that competitive edge. You're searching for some form of competition because that's what drives us.
2 (4m 41s):
That that's how we get to where we're at. A it is that that drive and competitive nature that we have. And a, this is so different now than, than what I played. It's, it's really a wake up in the morning and try to be the best that what you do. You know,
3 (4m 57s):
I'm sure there's a bit of an exhale though. A bit of a deep breath and hockey is such a grueling sport. I never played it at any high level. I played it for fun when I was a kid growing up in the Midwest, but man, you took a stick to the eye. I know that greatly affected you. You suffered three, at least that I know of huge hits and a post concussion syndrome, which is something that you had to deal with down this stretch of your career. And then there's the, ah, nothing too big, just cardiac arrest after a puck hit you in the chest. I mean, seriously, and that's, that's not everything I'm sure. And you're six, six in like two 25. I don't know how anybody ever messed with you.
3 (5m 39s):
How tough was that?
2 (5m 41s):
You know, I think it was, it was something that I really kinda got used to it, you know, I played a physical style, physical brand, a hockey, you know, tried to keep my opponents on edge and, and played kind of an unpredictable style. And, you know, I might hit your one time. I might spiraea it might slash you. It might take the pocket. You know, a lot of times, I didn't know, I would just kind of make it up on the fly, but a, you know, I, I think, you know, It, I always had that drive in me mind over matter, you know, where you're like, I'm a hockey player you're hurt. And it's like, well, I gotta play. And you figure out a way and you find a way to continue to play the game that you love and you have a passion for, and, and, and again, that, that competitive drive to, to win and win it all costs, you know, you do what you can to win, you know, whether that's intimidating your opponent or making the past to set up a teammate on a breakaway or blocking a shot or whatever the case may be and whatever it is on any given night, ah, what it's going to take.
2 (6m 44s):
You got to be willing to do that too, to be successful in and to be considered a winner.
3 (6m 48s):
Yeah. Real quick question. You know, when guys like slide and they, they block a shot, a slapshot, how, how much does that hurt? I'm always curious about that. And then that's on where you get hit, but like seriously, how much does that hurt? It depends on what,
2 (7m 3s):
So then it hurts and it, depending upon where you do get hit, you know, like I've broken my foot three or four times, you know, you get hit in the nether regions, that's gonna leave a Mark. You know, I've been hit in the throat. I've been hit in the, all of that thigh, you know, in the back of the leg, it hurts, but you know, it'll, you'll get over it.
3 (7m 28s):
So you're a hockey player,
2 (7m 30s):
Teammates all the time. I'm like, why are you Flamingo? And you're actually gonna break your foot like, Oh, and you're getting out of the way. You're going to get hit in the back. You know, guys would skate at the pocket. Then they got all the equipment is on the front and then they would turn and get hit in the back of the legs or back. And I'm like, why are you turning? You got all your equipment
3 (7m 49s):
On the front. Yeah. Good point. That's why a goalie stands face to the puck. Let's go back and talk about your Tracks To Success you grew up in Canada. So I want to go back to Chris Pronger childhood. All right. Were you born to skate? Were you, were you that kid, like I saw this video one time on, on social media of this kidney, he looked like he was like four years old. Maybe you saw it. It went viral and this kid was skating through cones so fast. And I'm thinking, okay, this kid, Sidney Crosby, this kid's Patrick Kane. I dunno who he is, but this is ridiculous. Was that you as a kid at five or four?
2 (8m 28s):
No, actually it's funny how I got started. I was four years old. I, my brother's two years older, so I was four years old and my parents asked me, do you wanna play hockey? And my brother was going to play. And I was like, no, I'm okay. And I literally, I'm sitting on the glass two weeks in and I'm like, okay, I want to play, I don't want to sit here and watch my brother. They were like, sorry. So I, for that whole year, all I did was, was skating lessons and learn how to skate. So in the long run, I believe it helped me because that next year I wasn't the kid worrying about how to skate and get the pocket. I J I had the pocket I could already skate.
2 (9m 8s):
So I think I was ahead of the curve in that regard because of that. And then just, you know, I think I, I had a passion forward and, and hockey sense and studied books and really just, I'm a visual learner. So I'd watch hockey and on the TV every Saturday night hockey night in Canada, and just kind of study the game and study the plays and study how a players are moving around on the ice and, and where their going and what their doing and things like that. And I think at a young age, I kind of understood and got it.
3 (9m 40s):
I'm going to digress hockey night in Canada, like that that's like a holiday, right? Everybody watches that
2 (9m 46s):
Yes, the world in Canada would stop for three hours from seven to 10 and to my home. Yeah. Seven to 10 to my hometown. And you know, obviously different in different parts of the country, but a seven o'clock like, you know, in Canada was on, there was silence, you know, and then commercials would come on and my brother and I would throw a ball in the corner and go murder each other. And then the commercial will be over and we go sit down and they keep watching the game, watching the game and a, you know, that it was a fun way to grow up and a fun way to learn the game
3 (10m 19s):
A little. Did you get like, was a present for a birthday or whatever? Was it a maple leaf sweater? Was it a Canadians? What was it?
2 (10m 29s):
No, I was a, I am from a town called Dryden Ontario, which is in between Winnipeg in thunder Bay, way up North of international falls, Minnesota, which is outside of Alaska, the coldest city in the continental U S and I'm from two hours North of there. So you could only imagine the winter is we had, so it was a, you know, a lot of fun. We grew up playing, you know, we'd come home from school and play road hockey, go up to the outdoor rink and skate there, you know, go to hockey pro. I mean, it was like every day we were figuring out how we were gonna play hockey in the fall, the fall, winter and spring. So it was a lot of fun and simple living that's for sure.
3 (11m 10s):
Parents, they supported you, obviously where you, a kid in the neighborhood that your parents would've said, okay, he's got that talent. Were you the neighborhood bully? I know you're I know you're a big dude. What were you like as a kid?
2 (11m 26s):
I, my nickname was chaos. I don't know if that sums it up enough for you, but a, you know, I was a little wild to a certain extent, but, you know, I think, you know, from the, from about seven, up through 15, when I left home, you know, I was one of, if not the best, the best player in the team and all the different teams that I played on. And, you know, I think it was, you know, you're from a small town, you don't play the high end competition that's down in the Toronto area. And you know, this is pre-internet days, so you don't really know what's going on. We get the hockey digest once a week.
2 (12m 6s):
And then I get hockey night in Canada, on Saturdays. And that's really the bulk of a lot of the hockey that I was getting to read about or watch on TV. And then the rest of it was just go outside and have fun. I mean, we spent the bulk of, of the winter playing road hockey or shooting pucks against the garage, or, ya know, all the things that we used to do his kids' and, you know, video games were pretty limited back then, too. So it was, you know, you're making up your own games and having your own fun, you know, a luckily I had a brother and probably because he was it a little bit older and bigger, I had to learn that nasty edge early on to get up, try to get a break somewhere.
3 (12m 45s):
Yeah. You were a pretty solid player. Let's talk about your junior career. You were identified as one of the best, a future star potential. You were going to go to bowling green and play, and then others said, no, you should go too. You know, the Ontario hockey league and it was a back and forth. And ultimately you switched and you went to the Ontario hockey league. Was that a crazy situation?
2 (13m 10s):
Yeah, it was, you know, because of what I just described, not getting a whole lot of information on hockey. And if you recall the hockey digest back in 1990, there was a one page, a little blurb on the Ontario hockey league. You know, my brother was already at bowling green on a hockey scholarship. So I was already trending towards going to college and, and gone that route and was up for was, was rated second overall in that draft that year in the Ontario hockey league and told everybody that I wasn't going, and I had no intention of going Peterborough. Pete selected me in the sixth round and they, you know, I was much less talkative back then and dicta the GM and coach calls me.
2 (13m 55s):
He's like, yeah, Chris, I'm like, yes. It's like, yeah, I just wanna let you know, we've drafted you A today. I'm said, okay. That was it. That was it.
3 (14m 6s):
Bye. Bye. Bye. A got a very few words. Okay.
2 (14m 10s):
So I, I, you know, they talked me into coming down to see the A to see the city, you know, the school and where I might live and my bill, it family and all that kinda stuff. And, you know, I, it, it was a, it's a neat little town, 50,000 people, you know, T a typical perfect junior town. And they talked me into coming back for training camp back then you could go for 48 hours and not ruin your ability to get a college hockey scholarship. And a, so I went for the first 48 hours, and I'm playing against that at the time. Other guys who were raided in the first round have the draft players that were drafted in the first and second round. And, you know, there's this pocket, their going to be good NHL players.
2 (14m 54s):
And I get dollar, I can do it. I'm like, Whoa, I can play against that guy. And I can play against that guy. I'm like, well, he's not done much better than me. And I'm like going, well, why am I going to go back? It I had to go, I had another you're a junior before I could go to college. So I'm sitting there going, well, I've got another year of, that's not going to help me develop. And then they kind of went out of their norm and, and offered to pay for my schooling if it didn't work out. So I was like, well, there's my scholarship right there. So I signed. So I signed on with Peter wrote to stay there.
3 (15m 23s):
Yeah. You had a very good career there. And ultimately I'm jumping ahead here drafted number two in the entry draft, by the Hartford whalers in 1993. Now you made the all rookie team that year, but, and maybe this is difficult to talk about, but I think it speaks to, you know, kind of who you are now in the Success you probably had later there, weren't always perfect times in your, okay. I think I know where you're going. I think you guys did it. Okay. So, so off the ice stuff, I mean, there's a bar room brawl. There's a couple of other things that happen. Like maybe you can tell some of those stories. Was this a sign of immaturity?
3 (16m 4s):
Was it tough to be away from a home where you're not ready for the moment? How would you describe what was going on? Tell us some of the things that happened.
2 (16m 12s):
Yeah, its funny how some things get blown out of proportion. The alleged barroom brawl we had in Buffalo. I was there with our whole team. So I wasn't just on my own. And it was a after a game or no, we were there after a game flew in, we go, we all go to the BARR. The whole team is there. So I was there and six of us are there and we're talking and we're over in this other section of the bar and out of the blue, of course I'm having this conversation with our captain and other guy, Andy, a bouncer just walks over and grabs his beer and tells them to get out, were like, well, okay, meanwhile, we have players that are still up at A up at the bar ordering drinks.
2 (16m 58s):
And so we're like, okay. So I, you know, they obviously knew who we were and a, so now as we all know in a bar when one bouncer and something happens, well, we just kinda turned and looked him like, okay, well we'll leave. We were, they all kind of surrounded us. And we still have a bunch of teammates. We're at the bar drinking and there was six of us over there and all these bouncers surrounded us. And as they kept coming forward, we kept backing up. They kept coming forward. They kept backing up and we're like, listen, we'll leave. Just let us out the doors actually on the other side of you, can we get out? And they're, they're coming forward. We're like, listen, we're not fighting this way. We'll leave. And all of a sudden out of the blue, behind us, the cops come piling in.
2 (17m 43s):
And then all of a sudden, a bunch of the balancers start laughing. The boots to us cause now were on the ground, are the cops are us. I'm just like, okay, this is this isn't cool.
3 (17m 56s):
Like what were the sabers having a bad year with him?
2 (17m 58s):
Well, what was going on? No, it was not. They were in the playoffs. We were out of the playoffs. We were fighting to try to maybe make the playoffs. And it was so blown out of proportion in a sense of what actually transpired. And you know, it was just the saga that, you know, we were talked into, pleading it out as opposed to fighting it in court because we just wanted it to go away. And in the long run, I wish we would've all just said, forget it. We need to, we need to fight this. Cause we didn't do anything. There was nothing wrong. Other than me being in their underage. Nobody did anything wrong. Nope, Nope. Not one person through a punch on our site.
2 (18m 39s):
You know, a bunch of bouncers tried to punch some guys in kicks some guys, but you know, I woke up in the morning and I was trying to figure out, Oh, why is my you're so sore? When they ran, the cops started macing me. I turned my head and he sprayed my ear.
3 (18m 54s):
Geez. So there were some other things though in that time in Hartford, was that a tough time for you or, or were you, you know, super excited to be planned and a lot of this stuff is overblown.
2 (19m 8s):
Yeah. Well some of it's overblown, but I think some of It maturity is a factor. As far as hockey was concerned, I was ready. But off the ice stuff, just, you are, you're somewhat isolated in the sense that, you know, all these guys are going out to bars, they're all going out for dinner and doing all this kinda stuff. And there is this 18 year old, 19 year old kid just stuck at home. You know, what do you do? Yeah. You know, I was obviously the youngest guy in the team, a, there was another guy that was 20 Patrick. Cool. And was 20 now, maybe 21 in when he had to use to live on his girlfriend. And you know, there was a lot of stuff outside factors that, that were non hockey related that, that didn't, I was living with a great family in that sense.
2 (19m 59s):
It wasn't a, an issue, but I think, you know, all your friends are at college, were all having the time of their lives were all enjoying. And you know, I'm just trying to figure out and navigate through being a professional athlete. And I's now kind of coming on you. I was very unaware of the notoriety and things like that. The, you know, I'd always had eyes on me, but just more eyes and more people staring and the <inaudible> that's so, and so you know, that it was uncomfortable in the beginning of my career, but you know, I think just immaturity in a sense that I didn't really know or understand how to live my life away from the rink.
2 (20m 48s):
3 (20m 48s):
It. You, you spent a couple of years there and then you were traded to st. Louis, which by the way, they're set to retire your Jersey. Dad. I don't know if you knew that or not. Thank you. Yeah. Just try and drop some news on your, you spend some really good years there, 95 to 2005. How would you describe that that 10 year run was that the, I know you didn't win the cup there a butt. Was that the best part of your career?
2 (21m 19s):
I, to be honest with you, I don't think so. You know, I think the first three years, you know, I, I came into my own, I started really getting it and understanding it and training properly, eating properly, preparing properly and, and, you know, practice. And before a game, his post games, you know, that's where I kinda came in into my own as a young adult into a man. And, you know, obviously got married, had kids a and then what I left, you know, I think a lot of people thought that my days of being an elite player were going to be over when the rules changed, there is no book and get a holding cell and all the rest of that.
2 (22m 0s):
And I would argue that I actually got better because I was fresher and didn't have a 250 pounder draped all over me that I'm lugging around the ice. I'm actually freed up to kind of move around a little bit and, and, and, and make all the passes and transition plays and things of that nature. And then, you know, play with a little bit of a nasty streak still and, and kind of clear the, in front of the net. You feel a little things of that I enjoyed to do.
3 (22m 25s):
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3 (23m 16s):
And after that lockout, the blues then send you to Edmonton. You signed this big contract, 30 plus million dollars in Oh six, you lead the Oilers to the Stanley cup finals, and then you request a trade Why.
2 (23m 35s):
You know what I think for me, there was a lot of things that happened that shouldn't have happened in the sense that I knew I was, I been in talks to my agent. I knew they were trading me. I knew I was going somewhere. And there was a bunch of teams that were interested in banning a route. And at no point was Edmonton ever offered up as a possible destination. So I, I was a little taken off guard when that was the team, when I got to call and I was at a friend's 30th birthday party. And, you know, it's later at night and I get this call. I'm like, well, we got to leave. And with my wife, and when we go to A, we go to bookstore.
2 (24m 19s):
And while I'm from Canada, I didn't know a ton about Edmonton. You know, obviously new, the Oilers, a new had played in Edmonton, but not much about the city itself and, you know, go in to go to get a book on Edmonton for my wife to read from the bookstore. And can you go in there? Like, why would you want that book? We don't have that. And I'm like, Oh God, you're not helping. And you know, it was presented to me that, you know, here's this contract, we don't want you to sign your qualifying offer. We don't want to pay somebody that much right now, dah, dah, dah. And, and I should have, I was going to be a free agent, an unrestricted free agent. The following year, I should have just tendered my, my on my qualifying offer and signed it.
2 (25m 2s):
But, you know, and it, you know, it was like one in the morning, my wife is sleeping, you know, I didn't talk to her. I didn't, you know, I just kinda said, okay, well, do it do what you think is right. That my agent and I should have been more invested in the process and understood the ramifications of what I was doing, but I didn't, and a, you know, in the end, you know, that they understood that. And Edmonton and Kevin Lowe was great, gracious about it and understood that it wasn't working out. I wanted to go back to the States and, you know, I didn't do what some players do when they request the trade and that's play like garbage. I honored my contract and played to the best of my abilities and, and left it all out.
2 (25m 46s):
And then the ice in the end, we came up one wind short. But you know, I think in the long run, I think them knowing that I played a, with my heart and soul that year in Edmonton, that, you know, they were going to do me a favor and, and, and, and fulfill my requests to be traded. Is that true
3 (26m 8s):
In your mind, maybe a light goes off where you understand how big of a business professional sports is. I mean, you know, forever, your you're a great player. You're having success, et cetera, et cetera, but there's so much more to it than that. And then you get shipped off. I don't think, look, a lot of people change jobs. Okay. What were they get laid off? Or, or they get for a loan or whatever you guys as professional athletes are. A lot of times you're in control. And then suddenly you're not in control anymore. Was that difficult at that time?
2 (26m 40s):
You know what I think you learn, you learn the business. For instance, when I got traded from Hartford to st. Louis, I was in the GMs office two months before I got traded to st. Louis. You're a franchise player we're building around you. We're never trading you. Listen. The one thing that I always had a problem with, whether it was me or anybody else that ever requested a trade, why is it that you're now public enemy number one. But when, but when the team wants to trade, you it's act it's okay. They're getting a better player. Well, I, I understand the logic and the dynamic, but why is it OK on one hand, but it's absolutely villainess on the other hand that to request to trade.
2 (27m 25s):
And How why is it if a player's not playing good, all you got to get rid of this guy. What if he's playing a really good why you would never trade him? Now I get the psyche and the dynamic, but you have to look at it from the player's perspective too, and say, okay, if, if that is how we're going to do things, then if I play it over and above my contract, then you should be, be able to redo my contract. Just like you're able to trade me. So there's a lot of different dynamics that at the time when I was public enemy, number one in Edmondson, I was just like, wow, I get the kickback and the vitriol, but you don't need to a two to do some of the things that, that, that you're doing. Not only to my character, but my wife in our family and all the rest of that stuff that happened and transpired, then it, it was a little A over and over the, over the top
3 (28m 12s):
Emotional stuff. And you're shipped off then to, to Anaheim, back to the finals in 2007. And this time you win the Stanley cup, is that the biggest achievement in your career? Maybe even more so than, than gold medals that the Olympics, or is there something I'm missing?
2 (28m 31s):
No, no, it is for sure. I think when, when you spend nine months with the same group of guys and you have one goal and one mindset that, alright, this is when I got there. We had, when I was in Edmonton, we had beat Anaheim in the conference. Vinyl is to go to the Stanley cup finals. So when I got there, I knew he had a good team and it was alright, this is our year. We need to win. We are all in on winning. This is our year it's Stanley Cup or bus. It was every player in the locker room outside of Scott. Niedermeyer had not won a Stanley cup. So we're all hungry and a new that, that the type of team we had and what we were capable of, it was just a matter of going out and proving it each and every night.
2 (29m 16s):
And, and, and, and really being the best we possibly could. And having that belief that we could do that.
3 (29m 22s):
Yeah. Traded again, it's time to Philadelphia for gosh sakes. Chris I mean, my gosh, another Stanley cup of parrots in 2010 against Chicago, that was kind of the wind down of your career. Not say you weren't playing good hockey, but injuries. And the, like, how tough was that mentally, not just physically for you to deal with, you'd had this amazing career pace yourself. Well, big money contracts, and suddenly here's a guy wearing a C on his chest and a, and, and it starts to change.
2 (29m 56s):
Yeah. You know what? I hurt my knee in the first game of this series against Boston, which is, which was the second round of the playoffs that year. And I played the rest of the playoffs with a pretty, pretty bad knee. And I, I spent part of the summer trying to figure out, do I get it fixed? Is it going to go away? What did I really do? Did I spray in it? And you know, a wasted probably, you know, three weeks to four, three to four weeks, trying to figure out what was wrong with it. And ultimately, you know, got, got knee surgery. They pulled out two chunks that were about the size of M and M is that we're kind of lodged underneath my kneecap.
2 (30m 37s):
And so it was, it was not insignificant. And I missed training camp. I missed the first couple games of the season, started playing, you know, started to get back in the swing. And they started playing break my hand, but it broke it. And there was a puck coming towards me and I kind of went like this and it hits me on an angle and it peeled back the bone so that when I would go in for an X Ray, it would, it would get flat again. And you couldn't see the break. So I played another three weeks with a broken hand and it was my top hand. So it was this hand that I did everything with and all it hurt because I had to cross check guys with it and punch guys with it.
2 (31m 21s):
And I mean, it hurt,
3 (31m 24s):
Wait, punch it all tonight. You guys, did you say punch now?
2 (31m 26s):
It was, you know, you just kind of push them. I push them with my hands. And so I, I, I'm going through S I get surgery. Then two weeks later, I'm kind of checking the strength. Rebreak my hand. And now, you know, we're going long and now we're getting close to the playoffs. It's like, I don't know if I can, I can't play right now. My aunts fractured, you know, like I can't hold my stick. So now I get it. I get it re I get surgery again. And now my hand is, there's something wrong with it. And I've got a cast on it. And I'm now skating, trying to figure out if I could play, play the lab.
2 (32m 9s):
I play games. We're, we're down three, two against Buffalo. I'd play a game, a game six in Buffalo, just to kind of play the powerplay. Just kinda be on the bench cheerleader, and then playing a game seven, play a play a lot, play it like 27 minutes in that game, seven against Buffalo. Now I feel something tweek in my back. I just feel some something pop. And we, we win game seven against Buffalo. We're going to play Boston now again in the round. And I wake up the next morning and I feel this burning sensation in my glute and with each Success of day, now, it goes to my glute, to my hamstrings, to my calf, the day of the first game.
2 (32m 53s):
I can't deal on my leg. Like I got no strength in my leg. I can't move my foot, the games an afternoon game. So I'm like, Oh my God. Even worse. So now I call the trainer. It's like nine in the morning. I like, Hey, I need to go see the doctor. I can't feel my leg. And we've been tracking this, you know, all the way through practice. I couldn't practice the last day. And, and then I go get an MRI and I've gotta, I've got a disc out. They shoot me up. I go to the rank. I play like 20 minutes. I can't even move my leg. I'm brutal. I can't stand up. Right. You know, I got no strength. It sure enough, the next day I'm like, is it now it's even worse? And I'm like, ah, I'm done.
2 (33m 34s):
I'm out. I got to get surgery. And, and then I came back that following year, and then I get hit in the eye and it's over.
3 (33m 43s):
I, I don't even know where to go with all that. What I think we learn, you know, first off there's 80 plus games in the season, how a hockey player of your caliber paces themselves. There's just no way you can go full speed. Every single game, 82 games. I don't know. I don't know that it's possible. Right? I mean, the playoffs are a second season and they're all long. How did, how do you do that? Chris how do you make it? 82 games are a hundred games in, in the playoffs. How did you do that?
2 (34m 16s):
You know what it's and that's what, that's what the summer is four. That's why you train. That's why you prepare a certain way. That's why you, you know, I had a specific regimen. It eating training during the season, obviously off season training in, in preparation for a plane in a minute, this that I played be playing a style that I played. And then C incorporating all of that into my in season workouts where even on off days, you know, I might not skate, but I'm lifting to make sure that I'm keeping my strength and, and eating you, you know, Michael Phelps, I dunno. He was eating like 20,000 calories or whatever it was when he was swimming.
2 (34m 56s):
All of those times, I, we would play on the road. We would get on the plane and I would eat three meals. You know, they'd have the meals and some guys wouldn't eat a meal. Then they would gain weight on one flight. And we might only be, you know, do you remember him in Philly as flights an hour? I would get on the plane. They would give me a meal. Before I, before we left, we would take off, I would get another meal. And then as we were cruising, I would get another meal right before we started to make our descent. It's a lamp. Oh. And it was just something in order for me to maintain my strength and keep my weight on and all the rest of that stuff, you know, trial and error, you have to really figure out what works and how you're going to feed fuel and feed your body to make sure that that you're strong enough.
2 (35m 47s):
And you have that energy, a boost of, cause you're playing that, you know, the, the next night are the night after that
3 (35m 55s):
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3 (36m 49s):
Stand out for me. One, we're talking about your career. Chris obviously winning the MVP in 2000, you were a defenseman that just doesn't happen every day, no team that ever traded you made the playoffs the next year. I kind of private. They would have caught under that. Privately. Are you kind of proud of that?
2 (37m 9s):
Yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. Maybe it was that little voodoo doll I had.
3 (37m 15s):
Yeah. I figured as much. What stands out about your career for you? Is it the leadership? Is it where in the C what, what is it that you remember most? And that you're the most proud of in that way?
2 (37m 29s):
I think outside of, you know, the first two years in Hartford, every time I played on it made the playoffs, you know, and you know, and then as you said, the teams, once I left did not. And a, you know, its, you know, I, I wear it as a badge of honor to, to be a leader and, and to push my teammates, I hold myself here and I hold my teammates. You know, they might not be to my level, but I'm going to push them to be the best they possibly can be. Because in the, at the end of the day, I'm the one that's held accountable for, you know, for their actions as the leader and as sometimes the captain or a assistant captain of a team, the media and fans and the outside world, you know, apply to piano on your back.
2 (38m 18s):
So to speak that the pressure falls on your shoulders to A help the team in the game, be you get your teammates ready to make sure that their ready to play it, et cetera, whether that's fair, unfair, that's the way it is. So if I'm taking the brunt of the media and the brunt of the fan, good or bad, I'm holding you accountable because I'm going to have you going to be the one, taking a breath of it, a win or lose. So you know, much like, you know, watching the last dance and, and Michael Jordan, I mean, there was so many similarities between, you know, outside of the fact that A, he is who he is and I'm who I am, you know, pushing your teammates. And I mean, I, I had to, as I got older, I kind of backed off how I practice, but what I was here in st.
2 (39m 3s):
Louis, I practiced hard. I mean, I would Tomahawk guys going wide. I would, you know, a cross check guys in front of the net, I'd run guys in the corner. It was just, I needed to a, get myself ready for that game, but B to, to show them, this is what I do on a day to day basis to prove career. And you need to do the same thing. You need, whatever your role is on a team, you need to do that to the best of your abilities. And you need to be ready to come, come to play when that pot drops and be ready to leave it all on the ice. Because you know, it's such a fine line and it's only gotten finer as, as the game has continue to grow and get faster a that there is such a fine line to winning hockey games, being a winner that you need people to be able to push and push yourself.
2 (39m 56s):
I was always my own worst critic.
3 (39m 58s):
So leadership is everything in hockey where it really boils right down to it. I mean, the captain is the guy that has got an answer for everybody in that locker room. And if you don't have that, you got nothing. Is that fair
2 (40m 9s):
To a certain extent? Yeah. I mean, when you look at some teams and you're like, well, I, that team is not as good. They play better as a team. Why did they play better? Or as a team, how are they brought together? Who's holding who accountable and you create this culture and this tradition inside the locker room. And there's a reason why some teams always have success. And it's the group of guys in a locker room, in a coach and then the new manager and the owner and, and the culture that they create and the traditions that they uphold in how they want to be looked upon to the outside world. That that is vitally important. And when new people come into that dynamic, they get it right away.
2 (40m 51s):
They're like, wow, this is a tight group. This is A you come into the locker room. You were like, man, there's no screwing around here. We're here to work. We're going to have fun. We're going to have a lot of fun, but we're going to work. And we're going to have our work boots on and a do what is going to what is going to be necessarily to be successful, never see yourself coaching. No one is the best coach he ever played for. I am far to impatient to a coach, a especially in this world, we now live in, you know, I think, I think I could do it. I don't think what little hair I have left, I think would be gone very quickly.
2 (41m 36s):
I've played for a number of great coaches, obviously, Joel Quenneville. I've got to start here in st. Louis. When I was here, I enjoyed, I had Paul Holmgren in it as my first head coach and in Hartford loved him. Kraig MacTavish and Edmondson. Who's a former teammate here in st. Louis. Ah, he was, I loved playing for Mac T a enjoyed a, the way we played in Anaheim with Randy Carlisle, a like the way we played with Peter Laviolette in, in Philly when I was there. Keenan, you know, I've always, yeah, I like guys. I like Mike, you know, What we got off to a, a rough start in the fact that I was whipping boy, but a, you know, I think in the long run had, you know, everything, as we all know, happens for a reason in life and had I not been forced to go through that adversity and to really look inward and deeper at who I was, what I was doing, how I was acting, how I was training hours, preparing, you know, Mike is not an X's and O's guy, Mike is a motivator.
2 (42m 45s):
And you know, when you look at his track record from his, his days and at the university of Toronto all the way through Philly, onto the Rangers, a Chicago, you know, he finds somebody that he beats down and then rebuilds and, and, and that's somewhat what he did with me. And I knew that going in. So I certainly expected some abuse, maybe not ultimately what I got, but a, you know, I had, you know, towards the latter part of, of my first year, and then on, into my second year, I had a great relationship with Mike and a, you know, I would certainly credit him. And I did my hall of fame speech that a, he helped me kind of turn in to the player that I became once he got fired.
2 (43m 28s):
And, and, you know, I continued to develop as a player. Ah, he was certainly a big part of the reason why
3 (43m 35s):
You've technically retired from the game, at least as an active player, you've got a wife, you've got kids and now you've got this new venture, well, inspired travels. What is it? How did it even come to be,
2 (43m 51s):
Oh man, mr. Entrepreneur, how much time?
3 (43m 55s):
Why do we have, we've got a little,
2 (43m 58s):
Alright. You know what? It was my wife's baby. We certainly travel a lot as a couple, as a family. We, we really understand and get the role that travel has in our health and wellness in our wellbeing are, you know, the mind body, spirit, and, and how travel can affect that. Her father was when she was six that a stage four colon cancer and, and had, it was given a 10% chance to live a day. He got that diagnosis and told his wife, my mother in law, that they, they wanted to take the kids traveling and during the summers and, and see the world with them the first year they were in Europe, she got to see him full of life and, and vibrant and, and interested in exploring the world.
2 (44m 44s):
He'd come home and just get pounded with chemo and radiation and all the different various forms. And so the treatments that we had back then for, for cancer and a guy that next year, he curated a trip to Asia because he wanted to learn more about Eastern medicine and holistic healing and all the different methods that they had. And, you know, I think that really stuck, stuck home with my wife and, and, you know, lo and behold, for years later, medical miracle, he is he's cured. He's in remission, he's these cancer-free. And that really stuck with my wife, seeing him happy on those trips and the vibrancy and joy of travel. And then, you know, learning about new cultures, new medicines, new healing therapies, and that whole health and wellness side that as we know, has, has really grown over the last 15, 20 years.
2 (45m 36s):
And so taking all that into account, and then I was traveling fast forward to when I get hurt and Philly, I injury in a bad concussion, her mom has breast cancer. And then her dad has a debilitating stroke that is paralyzed I'm on the right side. So the, the, the triple whammy happened is everything has to happen is in threes. And she's blindsided by all of this and, and three kids at home. And all three of her loved ones are dealing with some serious, serious health issues. You know, she starts reading up on all kinds of different things that will help us.
2 (46m 17s):
And, and even her, she, you know, reading up on transcendental meditation and, and all the different holistic healing methods that that might, whether it helped me help her dad help her mother and, and really starts reading a lot of books and was already interested in health and wellness at a number of different, you know, a degrees from different institutes in, in the health and wellness space. And that kind of clicked in her head. And we had this, she had this little private social media account that we had a bunch of athletes and celebrities and, and, and the like, kind of following us and always asking her, Oh, where'd you guys go, how'd you how'd you pick that place? Because I would always become unglued when I couldn't train and couldn't work out and couldn't prepare it even while on a holiday, I was still getting up, making sure I got my workouts in and making sure I was eating properly and able to maintain my way of living and my way of training while on vacation.
2 (47m 9s):
And back then, you know, 15, 20 years ago, most hotels and resorts a that the fitness center was an afterthought and kind of piecemeal together later, a later on, you know, as we've seen over the last 10 years as more and more new locations have been built the fitness center or on the spa, or a really sometimes the focal point of the whole facility. So a week she would always get asked what What, where are we with what we were doing? And that kind of clicked in her head. And, and our kids were very young at a time, and we got a lot, obviously a lot of health issues in the family. So it was just kinda of turning into the back of her head. And then the last few years as our kids got older, I do, unfortunately her father passed away and then her mother has now cancer free.
2 (47m 58s):
It was kind of freed her up to really build out the business and kind of think through, and figure out who we're gonna partner with, what the next steps were. And a, and then I became interested and I've always had a passion for travel, a passion, or always was the guy planning, our fishing trips and our golf trips and, and different events like that. And making sure, you know, there's nothing better than putting together a trip and seeing the joy and satisfaction of, of those that are able to participate and, and take, take advantage of, of those trips. And, you know, so I have a Patrick for travel as well and, and really saw a need in our space where, where we, what we know best.
2 (48m 40s):
And that's the elite athletes and a, you know, kind of CEOs and owners of businesses understand the demands in their time, the, the pressures of their job, you know, the demands in their family, because they're coming there a lot of times, you know, the second in line, because the athlete is, is training, preparing, playing, and giving his all, and is day to day job. And, and th the family unit comes second sometimes. And how do you bring that together and allow, you know, the, the spouses to reconnect or the family to come together and go on an amazing trip.
2 (49m 20s):
And, and, and really for us dig deep and our staff really dig deep and ask questions of where do you want to go? What do you want to do? What do you want to learn? You know, what's your bucket list? What do you not like, what are you like, what do you like when you travel and really dig deep into what there is, what they want to get out of it and, and what they really want to come home. And what's it take home value really. And, you know, the, the experiences that we curate and create for them, you know, we like to call it experiential travel, or, you know, it can be as cookie cutter as you want to go to LA for a couple of days. And it can be, I want to go to the middle East, or I want to go to Europe, or I want to get to Asia and it's curating and managing where to go, what to do.
2 (50m 9s):
And, and we're, you know, turnkey luxury, five star resorts, and a yachts bill is private jets, all of the rest of that stuff. But, but really for us, I mean, it's our intimate knowledge of the mindset of an elite athlete, how your driven, what it tick, why, why you might need something versus, you know, somebody else further down the food chain. It's a, you know, when your, in that position, in, in that mindset, you, you think differently, you think, you know, your more in tuned with what's going on. And, and you're, you're able to really kind of cut through all the BS and, and, and really cut to the chase and figure out what you need to do on any specific level, whether it's sports, business, whatever it is to be successful.
2 (51m 0s):
And you figure out a way, and, and you know, that we're here to provide the other side of it, the human element,
3 (51m 8s):
Boutique service. I mean, you're, you're,
2 (51m 10s):
It is very boutique, but it's, here's the niche, it niche business.
3 (51m 15s):
I'm sure a lot of athletes in the people that you were just describing really struggle when they're done, trying to figure out their next. And I don't know if you were struggling or if you felt like you always knew you were going to do something else, but suddenly now you're running this business day to day, and you're also responsible for other people's enjoyment, pleasure, et cetera. And you need to deliver management skills, et cetera. Did you really ever train for that? Is this all new, you know?
2 (51m 47s):
Yeah. Like To, yeah. I manage a locker room and I manage a household and I manage, you know, a lot of things that we do, and you read a lot of books and you talk to a lot of people and you have mentors in life, and I've certainly had some, some great ones. And, you know, I think for us in, in this boutique niche business, there are so many things that I look at when I play. And, and C you know, we are Uber discreet in private. When I played, I didn't want anybody knowing where I was going, what I was doing, you know, how I was training. I, I just, I wanted to try to get a leg up.
2 (52m 29s):
I wanted to make sure that nobody was getting ahead of me. And, you know, we are, if not anything that, and, and that's core value for us, number one, and then obviously communication and talking things through and understanding where your interests lie in what you really want to do and what you're passionate about, of what you want to learn and take home a, we want to create trips and experiences where you come home from a trip with your family. These are, these are expensive trips. You're spending a lot of money. You don't want to just come home and sit at the table and go, Oh, that was a good trip. And then you're done. You want to come home and go, man, sit down with your kids.
2 (53m 11s):
And you're having dinner and yet the dinner table. And you're like, Aw, man, you remember when we did this? Wasn't that funny when this happened? And it just, and then two weeks later, you're still talking about it. You're able to fall back on it two years later and talk to your kids about the next adventure going to take and where do you want to go? And what unique thing can we do next? And a, you know, I don't think as I've looked through all the different travel businesses that are out there, there's nobody out there that has my resume and has my background that is doing this. And, and certainly not my wife either. And, and, you know, that plays into the second part in the mentorship side. We're because we're asking these questions and getting to know our clients so well, we're able to form that bond and that friendship where they're gonna feel more comfortable asking, you know, the somebody's wife that maybe they're injured, maybe they're having marital problems or a kid problems.
2 (54m 7s):
And they're able to ask, you know, I know, you know, we're not perfect. We've got through our struggles, we've gone through, we got our own problems. Its, you know, it's not, A, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that everyday he has been a perfect my whole life. You know, there's certainly a lot of things that we've had to learn from and, and go through to come out on the other side and be where we're at now. So, you know, we're, we want to be there for that, that next generation and those athletes that are out there and former athletes and, and business leaders that, that might need a little help figuring out how to decompress. How did the stress out, how to reconnect with their family, how to do all these different things. And if you haven't been in that situation, how do you know where to start in?
2 (54m 50s):
How to, what questions to ask at the end, where to really probe and, and find out that touch point that that's really going to get them to open up, to figure out this is exactly what you need.
0 (55m 1s):
In addition to hosting this podcast, Kraig leads the Kann advisory group focused on elevating communication for companies and individuals, company consulting, empowering team in individual workshops, mind altering webinar's and Craig's inspiring keynotes for your conference or company meeting there all on the menu of services. Kann advisory helps companies clarify their message, helps professionals build and showcase their brand and helps everyone present their best selves. So if you're the leader of a team or company looking to give your employees a game changing one day experience or an individual who wants to become a speaker and presenter that gets other people talking visit Kann advisory.com.
0 (55m 51s):
And when you do connect, make sure to mention the Tracks To Success podcast to receive a special discount on any of the Kann advisory services. That's Kann advisory.com. Now back to the interview,
2 (56m 5s):
We're talking with hockey hall of Famer Chris Pronger Chris and hockey. You played defense, but when you're running a business, you can't really play defense all the time. You gotta, you gotta go on the offensive, you got to push and you got to take risks and take chances and, and you'll fail a few times.
3 (56m 25s):
What have you learned about yourself in this process?
2 (56m 29s):
I would say as I've gone along, I think talking about the early part of my career, I was, I was, I was and still am to a certain degree, very much an introvert I'm as much as people might see this gregarious guy out in public, I've learned to put the public traits on, but I've, I've learned to be a little bit more outgoing and, and you know, I was always quiet. And when you have eyes on you all the time and people talking and trying to talk to you, you kind of, I used to kind of skulk into the corner and kinda just, you know, kinda watch. And he got to keep my back to the walls so that I knew I knew nobody was gonna come up behind me, but you know, I think being more outgoing and, and you're, you know, you're selling a business, you're selling yourself to a certain extent in this business and a, you know, learning how to describe yourself and, and what you're passionate about and what your, your goals and dreams are.
2 (57m 25s):
And then finding out what there is R and talking it over and figuring out what exactly they want out of life, what they wanted to travel. You know, I think once, once we start going down that path, a lot of people, you know, when you get into that mentorship side and, and friendship side, you're, you're really trying to figure out what makes them tick and then delivering on, on that, whatever that point is and whatever that, you know, value or umm, little, a little idea that that kinda light bulb goes off your like, Oh, this will be perfect.
2 (58m 6s):
And maybe you should try this and maybe do this with your wife. You know, maybe surprise her once in a while. Don't let her plan a trip.
3 (58m 15s):
Why do you need to prove anything to yourself with this venture? I mean, is there, is there something that you feel, you know, I haven't done this yet?
2 (58m 24s):
No. I would say when, when you asked the question about managing et cetera, you know, I've always wanted to own my own business. I've always wanted to run my own business. I've always wanted to be my own maker and, and really, you know, basically do it all if you will. And you know, obviously I've got a great partner, my wife, we've got great people working underneath us. We've got great, a part of affiliates and partners, ah, behind that. And we, well, we certainly put a top notch first-class staff together and, and really it's just about executing now for us and, and then putting the right pieces into place for, for our clients and their families.
2 (59m 9s):
And you know, I have no, A no qualms now getting on the phone, talking to people, telling them our story. It's, you know, we're, we're a very real, we're very, you know, there's no BS. There is no, no, this is all things that have happened in our life and, and things that we've gone through that A, that have helped kind of steer us in this direction and kinda that has come a, around that, around the circle again in a, you know, like 2.0, so it's, it's been a lot of fun getting to this point and, and really it's just the beginning,
3 (59m 48s):
The things before I let you go, this podcast is called Tracks To Success. And I try to present people and their inspiring stories with a great thought of helping other people to perhaps achieve the same thing in whatever they do. You were inducted into the hockey hall of fame in 2015, a two part question for you. They sound very similar, but they're different. Number one, what do you want people to remember you for
2 (1h 0m 20s):
A well, and I can tell, you know, and, and this is also when you asked the question earlier about when I was younger and, you know, et cetera, a lot of times as a young athlete, you're like, Oh, well that's the hockey player. All, he's a football player. Well, no, I play, I play hockey, but I'm not, I am a hockey player currently, but that doesn't mean that I'm always going to be a hockey player. And I think for the longest time, early on, I struggled with being steered and just that direction, Oh, he's just occupy or he's just as he is just that there's, there's more pieces to the onion and it's peeling it back.
2 (1h 1m 1s):
And you know, whether it's coming out of your shell and talking more and being more engaging or a, you know, learning about a new business, learning about, you know, something different in life and trying it I've become much more open to trying new foods and learning about new cultures and things like that when you're immersed in your sport or your, or your business, whatever the case may be, you get tunnel vision to a certain extent. And I think travel can help take the blinders off a little bit as well. Ah, it's a great way to, to really open things up. So I would want people when they talk about me there, like he, he's a hard worker, that guy works his ass off and they might say, well, well he was telling it.
2 (1h 1m 46s):
Yeah, but you going to have all the talent in a world. If you don't work, you're only gonna get so far. And it's a matter of, you know, waking up every morning, all right. Let's, let's get to work, you know, and it sets the example for your kids and they see you working and how hard you work and what you're trying to build and grow, et cetera. And you know, you're trying to set that example, you know, hopefully for that next generation of, of progress out there
3 (1h 2m 12s):
Totally relate 17 and a half years at golf channel. One of the day, one original six, there's a hockey analogy for you. And A everybody would say, Hey, it's the golf channel guy. And I, I loved it. I was flattered. I was honored. But at the same time, I, I wondered what else, you know, what else can I do? What else can I give? And so when you talk about that, trying other things or putting yourself in new situations that can stretch you a, I think it's really important. The second part of that question is what do you want people to remember you as what type of person, as
2 (1h 2m 52s):
You know, I think a lot of people now are, they saw us, they would see my persona on the ice. And they were like, Oh, that guy's a*****e. He's like, he's so mean. But you know, when we talk to people, you're like, okay, that, that's how I played. That's that's just now I play the game. And then when you meet them on this street and they actually talk to you without being rude, they actually talked to you there, like, Oh, he's got a lot of nicer than I thought you were. And its, you know, I think in life, as we know, it's about opening up your eyes and not expecting certain things, but finding out for yourself and figuring out who somebody is, if somebody says, Oh, so, and so's a jerk, are you going to go into that conversation?
2 (1h 3m 41s):
Thinking this guy's got to be a jerk. Are you going to say, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and I'm going to figure out if he's a jerk and too often, I think we listened to outside voices and distractions. If you will, instead of making up our own minds and worrying about what we think we were about what somebody else is thinking. And you know, I think if there was one thing that I always bad it away, it was, I don't care what you think. I don't know you anyways. If I know you and you don't like me, I'm sorry, but you know, 99 out of a hundred, you know, when I meet you and we talk and we become friendly, we're going to become friends because I'm not necessarily that persona.
2 (1h 4m 27s):
That's just what you see when I was entertaining and playing a sport. And, and now it's this, you know, just trying to be me and help people along the way with our business.
3 (1h 4m 39s):
I wish you the absolute best with that business. And I have no doubt based on a guy who wore the captain C on is a sweater for all those years, that you're going to be a great leader and you're going to lead that thing to exactly where you want it to go with your wife. This has been a real pleasure and honor to have you on this thing with me. And I feel like I gotta a good friend and I've got a new travel agent. So that's all good. I appreciate it. Chris thank you so much for being on this.
2 (1h 5m 10s):
Thanks Greg. Bye pleasure. In our case.
3 (1h 5m 15s):
So Chris talked about the importance, a healthy lifestyle
1 (1h 5m 19s):
And treating your mind and body right with leisure in vacation time, which leads me to my one last thing. If you want to be an influencer, treat your physical self as well or better than the effort you put in mentally to achieve your goals. I'm not the most fit person in America, but I do know that when I am active and in the gym, putting effort into making me feel better, I have a lot more energy to perform better example when I'm on the road, speaking to groups, I make sure that to the best of my ability, I travel with enough time left in the day to get in a workout. Once I get to the hotel and if at all possible I'm up early enough before my talk to break a sweat and get my blood pumping a better physical you is a better performing.
1 (1h 6m 6s):
You. Chris talked about that no matter what you do or where you work and Chris would tell you that a vacation now and then is more than just a bonus. It's a necessity fit all that into your schedule. And I really believe you're Tracks To Success come a whole lot easier. One thing before we go, please take a moment to give this podcast a review and a rating and share it with those. You think might benefit from listening. And if you have a guest, do you think belongs on this show? Email me [email protected] until next time I'm Kraig Kann thanks for listening.
0 (1h 6m 47s):
You've been listening to Tracks To Success brought to you by presentation partners, visual storytellers, passionate about connecting presenters with their audience. Don't forget to subscribe to the show for more great interviews and thoughts on reaching your highest personal and professional summit. You can follow Kraig on Twitter and Instagram using the handle at Kraig Kann and four exclusive Tracks To Success content and news about our upcoming guests. You can find Tracks To Success on Twitter. It's at Tracks To Success.