Teachers Ed with Edward DeShazer

Your School Leadership Style Is Killing You w/ Principal Mo

• Edward DeShazer

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Principal Mo takes us behind the curtain of educational leadership to reveal the moment everything fell apart—and how it transformed her approach to leading a school. "This job can ruin you mentally, emotionally, physically," she confesses, sharing the raw truth about her 2022 breaking point when overwork led to depression, anxiety, and professional failure.

The conversation dives deep into what authentic leadership really means in education today. Principal Mo reveals how removing her work email from her phone, refusing to send messages after 5 PM, and being vulnerable with her staff about her struggles completely revolutionized her effectiveness as a leader. "When I say vulnerability is a strength," she explains, "that's when I realized I should have been vulnerable and honest all along." Her staff rallied around her once they understood what was happening, offering solutions she hadn't considered.

We explore the critical importance of building a complementary leadership team rather than surrounding yourself with people who think and act like you do. As Principal Mo puts it, "Don't surround yourself with people who are the same as you." Her insights on identifying teachers who lead from their seats and developing their capacity offer practical guidance for any educational leader looking to build a stronger organization.

This episode delivers honest, actionable wisdom about sustainable leadership practices that protect both your effectiveness and your wellbeing. Whether you're a veteran administrator or a teacher considering moving into leadership, Principal Mo's journey from burnout to balance provides a roadmap for leading with authenticity, vulnerability, and strength.

Subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with an educator who needs to hear this message of hope and transformation. The work we do matters too much to let burnout win.

www.EdwardDeShazer.org

Speaker 1:

I say the first leadership lesson, that the biggest one, the one where I fell flat on my face, is that don't overwork yourself. You know, this job can ruin you in a lot of different ways mentally, emotionally, physically.

Speaker 2:

If you're an educator that's passionate, but you're tired and you're burnt out and you're wondering what to do next, this is the show for you. We're going to learn together, we're going to recharge together and we're going to grow together so you can be the best you and serve your students and your community to the best of your ability. Welcome back to the Teacher's Ed Podcast, the place where the best and brightest in education come to be inspired, to connect, to learn and to grow. I'm your host, Edward DeShazer, and on today's episode well, actually, before that, make sure you subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Make sure you hit that little thumbs up. If you're on YouTube, give it a comment, subscribe to the channel All those important things that I have to make sure I do. Now let's get started. But today's guest is someone that I'm excited to bring on, someone I've got the opportunity to do some work alongside this summer, doing workshops. It is your. What is it? Your neighborhood friendly, your friendly neighborhood principal.

Speaker 1:

Neighborhood friendly principal.

Speaker 2:

Your neighborhood friendly principal Principal, mo Ashley Moore, is with us today. So at I can't even call you ashley, don't even feel right, principal mo, it feels good to have you on. Uh, when I found out your name I was like who's ashley? I looked around like where's?

Speaker 1:

there's not ash, that's mo that's that's normal at this point.

Speaker 2:

So I appreciate you, uh, for jumping on. So just to start, uh, just tell, tell the people that are tuning in and listening a little bit about yourself, what you do, where you're at, just so they know who you are and the work that you're doing.

Speaker 1:

K-A-M-O-G-B-T and I am a principal of a pre-K through eight school. I have been at the school for the last eight years, going into the ninth year of my principalship. Prior to that, I was an assistant principal for four years and then, prior to that, I taught special and general education through 12th grade, and I hail from the great state of Maryland.

Speaker 2:

All right. So one of the things that I've learned spending time around principal Mo is she is a dynamic leader. Uh, so I want to just kind of jump right in and talk leadership with you, Cause we'll have principals listing, we'll have superintendents, we have teachers. We're kind of all over the board with the audience.

Speaker 2:

Um, but been doing this long enough to know that you know the titles that we get in the schools really don't matter. It's about how you serve and how you connect with the people that you work with. So what is you know when you and I've heard you speak, but what are some of the leadership lessons that you would share with someone that has helped change the way you lead?

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you for that compliment. I appreciate it. I say the first leadership lesson that the biggest one, the one where I fell flat on my face is that don't overwork yourself. The one where I fell flat on my face is that don't overwork yourself. You know, this job can ruin you in a lot of different ways mentally, emotionally, physically, like you know, if you take on too much. And so when people say delegate and sharing the work, you should absolutely do that.

Speaker 1:

So that will be my first leadership lesson is to not let the role consume you to the point where you have nothing left, because then at that point you're not good for anybody. You're not good for yourself, your school, your family, your friends at all. So that would be my first lesson. My second lesson is to surround yourself with the people that compliment you most. Don't surround yourself with people who are the same as you. The reason being is that you need people to challenge you and always be willing to challenge the status quo and not just be yes, people, and also some of the greatest leaders, they admit that they don't know it all and they admit that they can't do it all, and how they get things done is they surround themselves with experts in different fields and um industries and areas in order to move the work of a organization or a school.

Speaker 2:

Um, I was gonna say that's two, yeah, no stop there for one second Cause I want I want people to hear that. That last one, because it's important. Um, you know, just as we've worked and worked with principals and school and just educational leaders, it's so often people are worried about bringing people in who are eventually going to take their job or people in and you're look, you feel like you're looking over the shoulder, where, from my experience, and if you bring in smart people as a leader, you become better you.

Speaker 2:

you look like you're doing your job better because you have really smart, dynamic people around you. So I would love for you just to kind of you know, I know you have a leadership team that you've built when you were building your team. How does someone go about, like? I guess first like, how does someone know what they struggle with as a leader? You know, and then how do they go about finding people to fill those voids?

Speaker 1:

Well, first, I don't know whose quote this is, and the first quote I think of in my mind is that you're not a leader until you can teach somebody else to be a leader, and then they can lead themselves. So the idea that you know somebody's going to come and try to take your job and you're going to, like you know, build their capacity to the point where you're replaceable, that's the point. You can't do this forever. That's number one. And so it's your job as a leader to build the capacity of others around you. Point blank, period. But building a team is really important, so much so because, you know, part of my journey is unique. I said I was a principal for eight years. Now, two of those years only two years I had an assistant principal, so a majority of my principalship I've been a solo admin.

Speaker 1:

So identifying teachers who were leading from their seats, meaning that they were taking on not just additional tasks but just like really living and breathing and walking that mission in that vision of the school, and that's what I looked for in building a leadership team. And so I identified those individuals. Some I had to hire, but once again, it was more so about focusing on those soft skills and what their personal mission was and their alignment with that, because, at the end of the day, it's my job to build capacity capacity. So if there's some hard skills that they don't have, that's okay, because there's training, there's coaching, there's opportunities for people to gain and acquire those skills along the way.

Speaker 1:

Another thing that I look for was just like talent opposite of mine. You know, I'm a strong relator and that could go very well for most things, but it can also be a huge blind spot. Go very well for most things, but it can also be a huge blind spot. But people who are just better with, like you know, systems and operations and then I was actually able to learn from them and then make better systems and operations for a school.

Speaker 1:

Also, somebody who could just look at things more objectively. It could kind of like take and look that, do that bird's eye view, because I'm such a visionary sometimes that I forget about the little, small details along the way. That part, and so you got to keep people that just keep you on the ground, and so that's what my leadership team does, because I'll be like I had this idea and they'll be like, oh, but they keep me grounded and they're just like okay, that's great, but what about this, this, this, this and this? So they help keep me in line, because sometimes being a visionary is great, but if you can't execute the vision, then you know, you're just a dreamer.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I would say a room full of dreamers ain't gonna do nothing but dream like. You need people that can go out and do and and push the, push the dream and bring the dream to life.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

You know you said you were looking for teachers that lead from their seat, a teacher that's listening. What are some of the things? And I know some people are like just volunteering and like what are some of the things as you were finding and empowering teachers in your school, if there's a teacher that's listening like.

Speaker 2:

What are some of the things that stood out to you as like that person's ready to take on more. For those teachers that are looking to you know, get into administration, get into you know a district position or get into leadership in a school, what are some of the characteristics for you that stood out? I know I know you talked about some of the soft skills, but do you have any specific examples that you could give to a teacher that's listening, that wants to get into leadership?

Speaker 1:

Yes. So I'll give you an example that just happened today and this is what helped me up from getting to this podcast today. So I had two teachers. They actually came to me and they said we reflected on last year, we saw what happened, we want to improve in these areas. They had a plan created already, solutions to bring to the table. They identified the issues and then they had key questions for me. And then, you know, they had key questions for me and then how to move forward with the work. And so then we were able to have, you know, some impromptu but very productive conversation about not just wallowing in the past of what happened or just harping on what didn't happen.

Speaker 1:

What did happen. They were solutions oriented. They developed a plan to address those issues. So they were able to diagnose the problem, prescribe the solutions to the problem and then be willing to come to the table, be brave enough, number one, to come to their leader and say these are some of the problems and issues that we identified and this is how we plan to solve them. And then, you know, ask for permission to move forward. So just taking that initiative is one big thing, and not just taking on tasks, but taking on initiatives where you are helping bring that mission and that vision to life of school. Like you know, um, because it's really easy to fall into the teacher's lounge crowd where it's, just like you know, people that complain, but then the people who are actually solutions oriented and that can live above the phrase, so to speak, those that's that's really truly leading from the seat, um, it's not falling into that gossip, gossip and the rigmarole of, just like you know, not being satisfied.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I always say I hate complaints. I love concerns because complaints are just like I just need to dump this somewhere. Where concerns are like I need to get this out, but then let's figure out how to solve it. So you know, I love hearing that because I feel the same way it's like, and from their perspective, if you can not only bring the concern but then also how it can best be suited, it makes my job easier. Because if you bring it to me and I don't know, I'm going to solve it the way I think it should be solved, which may not be the best for a principal or for a teacher or someone else in the building, but I'm going to do what I think is best. Or someone else in the building, but I'm going to do what I think is best. And then they come back and like, well, that actually wasn't the best. Well then it's like, well, if you knew it was the best, bring it to the table from the jump and we can work together and do that. So I'm the same way.

Speaker 2:

It's like I'm looking for people that are problem solvers. You know, bring, bring me the solution after you've identified the problem and let's work together to make sure it's the best solution for everyone, versus here's the problem and I just want to give you the problem, then you just leave, and then you, you know the same. Those would be the same people in teachers honors complaining when nothing happens. Well, it's like you can be a part of the solution. If you have all these concerns like what, what do you think is a solution? Let's bring something to the table. So now, as a staff, we can, or as a leadership, we can discuss, we can share, we can. We have multiple perspectives, which is, you know, always valuable in schools because people, there's so many different perspectives from a classroom, from an office. You know leadership, there's different ways you can look at it and you know, if it's just coming out of your office, you may miss a lot of other people's point of views, which is important.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, absolutely Right. And then if you're the one that's solving all the problems, most likely the problems are getting solved. That's something I've learned along the way. You can't be the sole problem solver, because then you become the parent of the building. You can't be the sole problem solver, because then you become the parent of the building, you become the mom, the dad. You know, as opposed to you know, somebody that provides like leadership and guidance.

Speaker 2:

And what is an emergency for someone is not an emergency for you.

Speaker 2:

Right, you know so it's, you know they. To them it's like this needs to be solved now, but to you, you could be dealing with a parent, you could be dealing with something else that's more pressing and like that's going to come before whatever is going on in your classroom. So then that's a, you know, a challenge and a struggle for some people, because everyone thinks their problems are the most important problems. But as a school leader, you have to see things from that. You know 20,000 foot level and you can see all the problems and you have to identify which one you can address first. But if people are bringing those solutions, it makes it a lot easier for their problems to get addressed.

Speaker 2:

And you had said this at in your workshop.

Speaker 2:

You know some of the staff just just need you to give them a yes, you know some of the staff just just need you to give them a yes, you know. So, coming up with, you know what type of programming, what type of clubs, what type of whatever it is that you know a teacher or one of your staff members wants to do, put together the blueprint, put together the game plan and bring it to your principal and say, hey, I have a great idea, this is how we're going to implement it, this is what it's going to take, and then, a lot of times, as a school leader, I love stuff like that because I can just be like run with it and let them go and take it, and now they're growing. But it's also benefiting the school as well, and I think that gets missed a lot when it comes to schools, because, I mean, people are busy, you know, worrying about what they have to worry about that at times. You know they have ideas and at some schools those ideas just get shut down pretty quick because of how, you know how the structure of the leadership is too so for sure what is so going into me, see where we're at, make sure we're time, we're so good.

Speaker 2:

So what when you? One of the things that when I heard you speak that I really appreciated is you were just very, you know, very real and authentic. And I think in educating is probably true in most industries, but in education that, I think, is missing for a lot of people. But I love that you, you know, really pride yourself on that. Where did that leadership style come from for you, versus doing what you know? I don't know about the leader in front of you or the leader in front of them, but where did that leadership style come for you as a school leader?

Speaker 1:

So I, like, I keep saying, I always refer to like the year 2022. It's the year that I wanted to quit, it's the year that I fell flat on my face. It was like one of the biggest failures of, like, my career, and so I think that's where it really started is that I had to look at what I was doing and it wasn't working. What I was doing and it wasn't, it wasn't working. Um, but then I also realized I wasn't happy because I was trying to be and do what people wanted me to do, or what I thought was what people wanted me to do, or how you wanted me to look or how you wanted me to present myself, so, um. So from there, it was just, like you know, I I decided to show more of myself and more of my authenticity in my leadership, and the shift that it made was incredible, like from just just from wearing sneakers alone.

Speaker 1:

Like you know, not only was I connecting with the kids, because you know you want to connect with the kids, you know I was connecting with some staff members about different topics, and even parents, like parents, will you know, it kind of leveled the playing field a little bit and you would think, like sneakers that were really, yes, like it leveled the playing field and I look like less of a pretentious person to approach, especially when you talk about parents that have had negative experiences with school and school leaders, like you know, whether as a student or, you know, as a parent or whatever the case may be it made me that much more approachable and I was able to build even stronger relationships with some of my families, and so and I think that's something that my parents appreciate is that you know I'm very honest, like I've always been an honest person, but like being like just more authentic and just being extremely honest is something my parents do appreciate.

Speaker 1:

There's actually like feedback that I've gotten. They're like you know, good, better and different. She's always going to tell us the truth, and so then that established that establishes a trusting relationship with my families. They like they look at me as a co-parent now. They're like I'm allowing my child to go to your school. This is a co-parenting relationship, so when they're with you, your mom or whoever, you're the guardian and I trust you to be that, and that's something that I don't take lightly. But I think that's where it really changed for me was at that turning point with just not being happy with who I was and and really making that shift for me to be what I wanted to be and be happy.

Speaker 2:

Can you I'm trying to get on your business or have all these folks in your business Can you talk a little about what 20? What was going on in 2022? I know you know, hearing your workshop, those some challenges you had with staffing and I'm sure there was some personal things. You don't have to go into the personal personal part. Um, just can you go a little more into what were some of those challenges?

Speaker 2:

because I know someone's listening and they're probably having similar challenges. People just need to know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. So I just want to. I don't want someone to miss that opportunity to hear some of the stuff you were going through.

Speaker 1:

Right. So I mean during that time, during the 21-22 school year, I don't know what when most people returned. So that was a year that we returned fully back in person from, you know, the COVID era. So we were, you know, out of school from 2020 to 2021, 22 school year. So we did one entire school year completely virtual. During that time, we had expanded the enrollment of the school and expanded the staffing of the school virtually.

Speaker 1:

And then, when we returned back into the building, I didn't, and I was still a solo admin I didn't realize how much more work was involved, with just the increase of enrollment but then also kids returning back to buildings after being away for so long, and so, and, and then it turned into me working nonstopstop. I mean, when I say non-stop, I'm not, I'm not like joking, I was, you know, I was staying at work till like seven, eight, nine o'clock at night, and then I would come home and I would still be on email. I wasn't present for my family. I wasn't present for my husband, I was not, and present for my husband, I was not. And then, as a result, I was just running myself ragged the entire year. I wasn't making the best decisions, I wasn't utilizing, like the appropriate people in my building to move the work. It was all you know, I had taken on all this unnecessary responsibility in work and then, as a result, things began to spiral. You know I was approaching, like you know, having serious depression, had developed in anxiety. I started having panic attacks out of nowhere and if you've you know, if you've gotten to know me, like you know, I'm pretty even keel. Like you know, I'm not like high or low. You know what I'm saying. So for me to have like these extreme emotions and feelings and things going on from the level of stress that I was experiencing, it was just like it's the. The source of stress is this job and the at the.

Speaker 1:

At that time, the best solution was to quit and so, but as a result, like all of my school data decreased, which has never happened under my leadership. That's why I said it was like the worst year of my school. Data decreased, which has never happened under my leadership. That's why I said it was like the worst year of my entire career. And you know I could say that like it was because of COVID and things like that, and that's partially true, and then you know, hindsight is always 20-20. But there were things that I could have done, could have done um differently, um, in my leadership, and there were some decisions that I could have, you know, better made Um, but I didn't.

Speaker 1:

And so that that's what happened as a result, like I was just losing sight and touch of everything. Like you know, the one thing that I was putting the most time in which was school. That was sucking, and then at home I wasn't present, so it was just like, well, what am I doing? So? Um, so what I did to dig myself out of that is that, you know, I I'm a big advocate for mental health and, you know, for therapy, and, like you know, I talked to all of my staff members and anybody I could talk to about therapy, and so I had stopped going to therapy, so I had restarted going to therapy again, and then from there, we developed like a plan to put in place where I was taking better care of myself.

Speaker 1:

And then the other thing that I had to do which I think was also another true turning point for me is that I had to admit which I think was also another true turning point for me is that I had to admit all of this in front of my staff. They had to understand what was going on, where I was coming from, um, and you know, not not to get any sympathy from them, but for them to really understand. Like you know, this is where all this is happening. And so, when I say vulnerability is a strength, and that is the at that point, that's when I realized that I should have been vulnerable and honest all along. And then, because at that point, my staff members who were there, they rallied around me, you know, they made sure that, like no, I was good, and they were like, well, I can do this to help, I could do this to help, I could do these things, we just figured you got it and you were okay, we didn't realize it was getting this bad and um, and I, like I, I think I just underestimated them in a lot of ways, which wasn't fair to them, um, so, yeah, I mean that's that's what happened, it was, it was probably the best. Now, like you know, looking back on that, I mean you have to fail to fly, and so that was that point of failure that I experienced, that I never want to experience again, but I learned so much from it that it has completely changed.

Speaker 1:

Like you know how I lead, you know how I look at my staff, you using vulnerability, like you know, because you know, before leaders, it's like you know you couldn't show emotion, you couldn't, you know, admit that you were wrong or that you were in a bad place. Like you know, that was just information only for you and you own, because you know it is lonely. So that that's that's essentially what occurred. Um, but from there, like you know, my therapist and I we developed a plan like to get myself back on track and to really evaluate if I needed to, like, if I really needed to not be in this role anymore.

Speaker 1:

Um, that took a lot of soul searching, but, but you know, and also just talking to, like, my family, like I decided to stay, and then I talked about, like talk to everybody, about what that's going to look like for me going forward, and so some things were just like boundaries. Like you know, I'm not sending any emails after five o'clock. I don't expect anybody on my staff to do so. I'm only working on Saturdays, I'm only available for emergencies, but I won't be emailing, I won't be doing anything on Saturday. So some of these boundaries are still boundaries that I stick to to this day, but that was what was missing.

Speaker 2:

I just didn't have any boundaries and I was just running myself ragged yep and I, and I think the part that I want to point out to anyone listening is you set them, but then you communicated them with your staff, and that part is important because people will set them, but then you don't communicate them, then people are still sending you those emails, people are still calling you and texting you at all times the night, and then if you people will continue to do what of the night?

Speaker 2:

And then if you people will continue to do what you allow them to do, so if you're answering, if they send you an email at 8 PM and you're like you know what, I'm just going to answer this one quick you are then telling them that it's okay to do that and that what I shared with you about them doesn't really matter, because it's okay for you to still send it. Cause'm going to respond anyways, because I don't like to have that notification on my phone. One of the things you shared that I know I ain't doing, but I'm not you was that you didn't, you don't, I would I think my anxiety would be through the roof was the fact that you don't even have email on your phone.

Speaker 1:

Nope, I took it off because I was, because I was that crazy person checking my email at three in the morning, then I can't sleep, then I'm tired the next day. It was a bad, bad cycle. So it's only been I want to say it's only been about like eight or nine months, but I stopped putting email on my phone in like October of like October last year, was able to manage a building. I was able to do all the things and know who called out and come up with a coverage. I was able to do all those things without checking my email on my phone yeah, and I stopped checking my email after five so well, you, yes, lynn, you don't think you can do it until you try it.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, but I mean it, it's, it's life-changing, it really is, like you know, and then you just have to make sure and be intentional about when you are checking your email.

Speaker 2:

But once people know that you're not as accessible in that way, they don't try to contact you yeah, and if they do, they know it's a true emergency and the thing that people can do, which I was sharing with someone the other day and a lot of people don't realize this is.

Speaker 2:

You can say there is something that you need your principal to know or that you need your teachers to know, type the email and schedule it to send the next day. You don't have to hit send Emails are so sophisticated now. You could schedule that email. It could be 4.30 and you're like you know what. I don't want to bother anyone at the end of the day, let me schedule this for 8.07. So when they walk in, they'll get it a few minutes after they walk in.

Speaker 2:

Doing little things like that go a long way. I used to shoot emails as things got forwarded to me. I would forward it to the people on my team that needed it. And then, maybe seven or eight months ago, I started to realize why am I sending this? Because then they're responding just like, hey, I got the email and I'm like I don't want the response. So what I started doing is I started queuing it up for about 10 to 15 minutes after they get to work the next day, so at least they can get in and get situated be at their computer. Then it pops up versus like 6 am and it's the first thing they see when they wake up, when they wake up. So I think that's a little thing for a school leader of how you can also help your staff set those boundaries of just scheduling those emails. So now you know you're not telling them not to email you, but you're doing it to them and they're doing it back and now there's just a back and forth and everyone's boundaries have been crossed and stepped over.

Speaker 1:

Right, and one thing that I think that I didn't realize, and I don't think most people realize, is that when you send an email, most likely that email comes with something like some sort of task behind it. And so what happens is is that when you're emailing a teacher and you're emailing them five and six things, you know, then that's five or six more things that they had to do than before, and, and then, most likely, and so that's five or six more things that they had to do than before, and and then most likely, and so that's what some of my teachers were doing which is why I stopped emailing after five is that they would see me send something and they would get on it right away because they wanted to get it done. And then I'm perpetuating this, this cycle of, you know, poor work-life balance, like I'm like, if you choose to work on your time, that's your choice. I don't want to be the one that imposes that on you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so yeah, and speaking of getting it done, we got to wrap up and what I want to do, um, before we jump off, I want to do a rapid fire, this or that. So nothing, nothing crazy. I'm gonna take it easy on you this this time. Next time you come on, I'm gonna going to make it more challenging. First one would you rather have a staff meeting or a student assembly?

Speaker 1:

Student assembly.

Speaker 2:

Would you rather have a vacation in the city or a vacation on the beach Beach? Would you rather have a pep rally or would you rather have peace and quiet? Pep rally a pep rally, or would you rather have peace and quiet pep rally? Would you rather have parents just visiting, or parents?

Speaker 1:

that are in the classroom, parents in the classroom temptations or boys to men boys to men boys to men.

Speaker 2:

Uh, big year, tupac, big, best era of music all time.

Speaker 1:

Oh, don't make me choose that. Oh God, Mo's a.

Speaker 2:

DJ too. For those that don't know, she didn't tell that, but Mo's a DJ. That's why I asked the music question, I got two.

Speaker 1:

So if I wasn't alive for this time, I'm going to do one if I were alive, and then one that I actually experienced If I wasn't alive. It that I actually experienced, if I wasn't alive, it was disco, like the disco era that transitioned into hip-hop.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

I wasn't alive for that, I wasn't around. The second one, and this is something that I challenge you to look up the best music was released between the years of 1996 and 1999. I'm not debating that because best album, best song songs we still hear play to this day came out during those years, best music era, and that and that was for pop, hip pop, rock. It didn't matter what genre country shania twain's I Feel Like a Woman came out during that time. Those are the two best eras to listen to.

Speaker 2:

If you're listening on YouTube, I need you to put a comment in the chat of the best song from 96 to 99. Your favorite song from 96 to 99. But, Mo, I appreciate you for joining me. I appreciate everyone that is listening. If you have not not hit the little thumbs up, subscribe. If you're on Apple podcasts, if you're on Spotify. Mo, I appreciate you for not quitting in 2022 and still being here and I appreciate you for the work that you're doing.

Speaker 2:

I really really enjoyed being in the room with you in St Paul and in Austin just to be able to not only to learn from you, but, like I always say, it's just nice being in the room with people who know the work that we do matter and understand the struggles that can be when you end up in these type of positions. So I truly, truly thank you for your work, I thank you for joining me and I thank everyone for tuning in to Teacher's Ed podcast. Mo, can you do on your way out? Can you let everyone know where they can find you, your Instagram, youtube, youtube, any information? And please also make sure you plug all the rules for engagement so everyone knows where they can find you guys all right.

Speaker 1:

So I am principal underscore mo on all platforms and you can also follow the rules to engagement on tiktok and instagram. The rules of engagement is on TikTok and Instagram. The Rules to Engagement is powered by knowledge. It is a educator-led TV talk show live, so it features myself, alexia Pendleton, shivvy Brooks and Real Rap Reynolds or CJ Reynolds, and so we talk to different guests. We talk about current issues in education and we are on YouTube as the rules to engagement Awesome.

Speaker 2:

Make sure you check those out Again. Thank you for joining me. Appreciate you all for tuning in and, until next time, keep showing up for your staff, keep showing up for your students. Most importantly, keep showing up for yourself. Teachers at Podcast. See you soon.