Helping David Beat Goliath With Kristen Appleman of ADP

What happens when small businesses find themselves battling large organizations in the race for talent? In the podcast, Kristen Appleman, a seasoned professional with over 13 years at ADP, unveils the secret weapon small businesses can use against their Goliath-like competitors.

Appleman underscores the significant role that a Professional Employer Organization (PEO) plays in empowering small to medium-sized businesses. In her role as a senior vice president general manager of ADP Total Source, she shines a spotlight on how a comprehensive suite of PEO services provides small businesses the edge they need. 

Another interesting observation made by Appleman brings Gen Z into the picture. Their vocal advocacy for mental wellness has resulted in a gracious acceptance of open discussions about mental health at workplaces across generations. With an empathetic approach, employers are now learning to accommodate their employees' mental wellbeing through added resources, thereby enhancing employee engagement and retention.

With the right resources and approach, the Davids of today can surely beat the Goliaths of tomorrow.

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Transcript

William Tincup: 0:32

This is William Tincup and you're listening to the Recruiting Daily podcast. Today, we have Kristen on from ADP and our topic is helping David beat Goliath. Let's just jump right into introductions. Kristen, would you do us a favor and introduce yourself and what you do for

Kristen Appleman: 0:46

ADP? Sure. Absolutely. And thanks for having me today. I am Kristen Appelman. I'm based out of ADP's Alpharetta, Georgia office. I've been with ADP for about 13 years and, uh, in my Role today. I'm a senior vice president general manager of ADP Total Source, which is ADP's PEO, our professional employer organization. We work with over 20, 000 small business clients that employ over 720, 000 worksite employees. So a lot of, a lot of human lives affected. And usually the next question I get is, well, what's a PEO? What is, what is this that you really do help me understand? And what a PEO does is we work with the small, medium sized business owner who, again, really that bread and butter of the U. S. economy and the backbone of how many people who they work for Uh, to be able to compete, um, you know, with other larger organizations that have access to, you know, be at the bigger benefits as a Fortune 500 like organization, to be able to have the, the services, solutions, the expertise, uh, to support a workforce from hire to retire, and we make sure that in this co employment relationship, we, we bring them the best so that they can do Be able to find the best and to be able to hire and attract talent that is going to help propel their business to the next level. That's a little bit of what I do. Well, I'm

William Tincup: 2:09

super familiar with, uh, PEOs and NAPEO is a, an organization as well. The actually three different businesses I've brought PEOs in. Yeah. Great. Because it's just, first of all, if, uh, if you're a small business owner, you're listening to this, or you've worked in small business, you'll understand this, if you don't take out payroll liability, you, the tendency, the temptation to use that as working capital is real. And so giving that money to another, you know, paying your payroll and letting another organization hold that, then make those deposits, et cetera. Uh, A, it takes out a working capital, it protects you, uh, and make sure people get paid the access to benefits. is tremendous because again, you can have a four or five person firm, but the benefits you'd get from, you know, any of the great, uh, UnitedHealthcare, Blue Cross, whatever, they're just going to, they're, they're not going to be the greatest plans, but it's arbitrage when you do it with a large organization like TotalSource, ADP, TotalSource, you can then get the benefits of it. of a large organization. I love that. And I also love the compliance. A lot of PEOs, you know, they'll still go in and do safety checks and, and, uh, and, you know, make sure your posters are up, all that stuff that like as a small business person, you might not be great at. And so having the employee handbook, stuff like that. So I loved, I love PEOs actually. So love them.

Kristen Appleman: 3:37

I've been in the PEO industry for over 15 years. So it's always good to hear how somebody has Um, and I've been on that client side too, where I was, uh, I'm an HR, HR professional by trade. So I do love HR. I'm a fully admitted and have been where I was in an HR internal role using a PEO. And now I'm on the other side of running the PEO and working with business owners on what keeps them up at night. And you're absolutely right. Healthcare has become such an important need, um, and people want choice. Choice also goes to complexity, and we all have our different needs and different, uh, life moments that are going through, uh, it certainly hasn't gotten any easier, uh, or any less, you know, uh, risk in terms of the payroll, the benefits, the administration, the compliance, um, you know, and we're, uh, We're a litigious society and as a business owner, like you worked hard to create your business and to have potentially an employee who, you know, may not agree with how something was handled, that, that financial implication to the business and I'm proud of what we do of being able to work with our clients, help them make good decisions, help them keep out of harm's way, be it in, you know, employment action of that notion, but also with government agencies that are also trying to make sure that compliance. occurs in the workplace.

William Tincup: 5:04

Yeah, and it's good for employees as well, because there's, you know, when, when you're in a small business, things are kind of the Wild West, and, uh, things kind of get made up along the way, and having a business partner, which is really what PEOs are, having a business partner that helps you with all the stuff that you're not great at, especially when you're I think companies under 25 employees, they really, because they don't, at least, now this is, this is a, you, you would have a better statistic about this, but this is probably 10 years ago, I did a study on this. When do you get your first HR professional? And, uh, it was, it was a large study. And so it was at, at, at or around a hundred

Kristen Appleman: 5:42

employees. You're absolutely correct. Absolutely correct. I was, I was wondering what number you were going to use, which is insane. It is. And, you know, uh, I'm sure that any organizations. Probably would say like to wait till you get to 100 is really hard because there are so many more rules now. Oh my goodness. Be it ACA, Affordable Care Act. You also have a lot of state and local. Oh

William Tincup: 6:08

yeah. Oh yeah.

Kristen Appleman: 6:10

That rules are now at 10 or 15 employees. Yep. And I'm a business owner, you know, if I'm a business owner, I want to focus on my business. I don't want to be reading up on every little change because that's just not what I, if I was doing that, I'd go in the PEO business. That's right.

William Tincup: 6:28

That's right. You've got other things to do. It's kind of the financial folks would call it TVM, time, value and money. You know, what are, where are you best suited to spend your time as an owner? Uh, business owner, it's not an understanding of municipality and how they change the, the minimum, uh, wage. Like Seattle can change the, the city of Seattle can change the minimum wage for their, for that municipality. And, and so payroll companies, POs that have, you know, that have payroll, they, they can keep track of those things and do keep track of those things, those payroll libraries. And so municipal, state, federal, international, if you have employees elsewhere, like, I don't want to keep up with that stuff. No. Someone's got to keep up with that stuff.

Kristen Appleman: 7:19

You're absolutely correct. And the one that's been coming up more and more is, um, A, you've seen a rise in state mandated retirement plans. Good, good intentions, because I would agree that most, you know, U. S. workers are not preparing enough for retirement. There's continued to be concerns of the social security system having enough money, you know, having to raise retirement ages in the future, um, to avoid insolvency there. Uh, so you've seen these states. say I want to have a state mandated plan. I love that they're doing that. It even gives more importance to a P. U. offering via the 401k, multiple employer plan offering. But the second thing I'm seeing more and more of is while there hasn't been a federal requirement yet for paid family medical leave, you have Family Medical Leave Act, or FMLA, but that's unpaid. A lot of states, um, especially more progressive states that want to provide more and more rights. You talked about, um, you know, Seattle, great, great state in terms of Oregon. I've seen this paid family medical leave insurance, and some of that is employee paid, some of it is employee employer, you know, combinations, some of it's just employer. And again, those Get to be very intricate in terms of who's responsible if you have a private plan versus, um, you know, the state plan. And it gets tricky to navigate that, you know, great intent. Like people, I don't know anyone that would argue with the, you know, the need for it. It's the, the, how you go manage it, how do you stay compliant, that gets, that gets

9:02

tricky.

William Tincup: 9:03

Yeah. And that's why you need a partner. So let's go back to David and Goliath. How are we, how are we helping, uh, David and whom is Goliath in this metaphor?

Kristen Appleman: 9:14

Gosh, you know, I think you could look at this, um, in a couple different ways when I, you know, especially I think in the lens of, of PEO, we really focus on small, um, small and medium sized businesses. And, you know, if you look at it from that lens, I would say that, you know, Goliath is your, your large organizations, your fortune 500s. That have access to a great deal of capital, um, have negotiating power, um, that have the ability to provide a workplace advancement, training, development, education, uh, learning, and all those different infrastructures. Um, that a small business otherwise is not competing with, as you, as you mentioned, you know, most organizations, uh, small businesses, they don't even have an HR professional. And so how do you compete with being able to have insurance that allows for choice? Every employee is different, has those different needs, those different life moments that are going to occur, um, and the changing generations that we're seeing, you know, throughout that. So, Goliath, you could look at it and say, Goliath is the big organization and, um, you know, David is the, the small business owner who is trying to compete in that war for talent, um, you know, to provide those services and to be seen as, you know, A big fish, even though they may be a small fish in this very, very big, big pond. And I also see that David and Goliath, uh, when you think about, um, employees and choice, I also see that, you know, the Goliath could be other organizations in terms of how do they operate, what's their culture. Because I have seen over the last few years more and more, um, of a need for mental health in the workplace. Um, diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging, psychological safety, all of these elements that, um, be it a pandemic or social unrest, employees have a very strong voice. If they don't like something that you do as a, as a business, not only as an employer, as a business, they have a lot of different means to go and talk. And to tell their story, um, and so Goliath is these channels of, of capability to have the discussion. And if you are trying to build your business and grow your business, are you creating a brand that people want to work for you? Because you're going to be compared, you know, to others, and there's choice, employees have a lot of choices where to go work, um, but also your employees become an extension of your brand. And are your employees acting in a way that allows you to win against the competition, be it keeping customers, winning business, um, sustaining the business against Goliath who, um, you know, maybe you've seen in a better light or, you know, are you doing things better than Goliath to ensure that you're winning that battle for continued business growth? Um, because we've, we've weathered a lot of economic storms. If you'd asked me a year ago, I probably would have said I thought we would have had some type of official recession this year. Well, I was wrong. We haven't had an official recession, but still, like, you've seen these, like, rolling recession like situations by industry. And who knows what's going to happen in 2024? I always say when you go into an election year, you have a lot more just upheaval of different views. Usually you have some economic dynamics in play. You have a lot happening overseas right now from a political, uh, you know, view. Um, and that unrest Can create financial distress or uncertainty, which it just it affects the workplace. It affects also people's spending habits and people's temperament of the type of organization they want to work for. Do they feel safe? They feel like their job is stable? Do they feel, uh, feel cared about? Um, and that all plays into, again, David Goliath. You know, are you, are you, David, able to win, win the battle or? Uh, you know, are you having somebody that's uh, threatening to, to push you down to, to pummel you? And how are you gonna to rise above that?

William Tincup: 13:27

It's, it's interesting as you, as you talk, I kind of, I, I, I was thinking about Goliath being the status quo

Kristen Appleman: 13:38

and oh, great. Another

William Tincup: 13:39

great way to look at it and, and David being more or less get with the times.

Kristen Appleman: 13:44

And that's a great, that's a, um, I hadn't thought of that in that way, but I love that example because. Not changing is still a decision, and I think sometimes people are so afraid to make a decision, but by not changing, that's your decision. Um, and you're right. There are established businesses who, this is the way I've done it. This is how I run my business or my product, and then they go away. They don't exist anymore. Or they, you know, things happen and they really You know, are taken to task in a very public manner, um, for their lack of change. Yeah. For their lack of realizing that Things are important, um, different generation, you know, I have a 19 year old daughter and, you know, I have seen, just in her own 19 years, how different that has been since I was raised. Right. And as a, a senior leader in ADP, how I lead, I could not have led the same way 20 years ago. And I won't lead the same way 20 years from now. Right. It's going to constantly evolve then. As it should. I refuse to change. I will get left behind the organization gets left behind

William Tincup: 15:03

capability, and that's where, that's where it impacts candidates if you're trying to recruit them employees, if you're trying to retain them or engage them. And so that mentality, uh, of, of, you know, the status quo or just kind of, uh, digging in your heels, um, and saying, you know, this is the way we've always done it. Like that phrase, whenever you hear it, it's almost, it's almost like that's highlighting. This is the way we've always done it. That highlights like, okay, I should work here. First of all, just the phrase is, I say a trigger, maybe that's not the right word, but that, that that's, that's highlighting. It's kind of, it's sending you a signal. It does. You should probably look for some, something else, something else that, you know, somewhere else. Uh, et cetera. But I did want to ask you if you'd seen anything different with like the, uh, the hourly market versus corporate market. Cause I know, I would assume we used to call it a POS, correct me if I'm wrong, it was, we used Grub. Blue collar, gray collar, and white collar. We've probably changed that. It's a little bit dated, uh, for me, but I'm assuming TotalSource has a mix of those things. We

Kristen Appleman: 16:13

do. We do, and you're absolutely right. You know, um, again, that was, those were very common terms, and be it the last five years, maybe even as long as ten years, Um, you know, some feel that there is, um, a negative connotation to them, um, which is unfortunate. And I know that was clearly not the intent, but understand, uh, you know, instead, so how do you call it? It's like a skilled technical workforce. Right, right. Um, but you. You have seen, and I think these are interesting times with, with Gen AI, um, and the rise of large language models that there are certainly some roles, um, that will evolve, uh, and in the world of HR, there's just been a huge amount of discussion around, does HR get displaced, um, with Gen AI capabilities? I'm a firm believer in it. I don't believe it gets displaced because at the end of the day, we're all people and humans. Humans are perfectly imperfect. We don't always do rational decisions. We make a lot of decisions based out of fear, um, and as long as you're going to have people in a workplace working together, engaging, and you're dealing with customers, you, you can't solve for all that through Gen AI. It can help you, it can aid you, but people are unique beings. Um, and so I do feel like that's just something to stay, to stay on top of and to be aware of. Again, not to be left behind, to your point of Goliath being status quo, not being, um, you know, naive to the fact that change could come. Um, at the same time, there are going to be roles, I think, that become even more important. Um, you know, and that could be some of that skilled workforce. that Gen AI may not be able to solve. If I need a plumber to come into my house to fix some pipes, I'm not sure Gen AI can do that. Gen AI might not be able to add, you know, aid in, well, what do I do, how do I fix it? But I still need somebody to come in and do it. Uh, and so I think there's going to be, you know, those aspects of roles and we've seen that with staffing shortages and some of that skilled workforce. Um, that, you know, be it the change and shift of studies and college and, and where, you know, folks go after, uh, high school to, to get their studies and their training, you're seeing this in certain workforces and certain industries that there is likely going to be a very big gap in the years to come as that tenure, uh, those individuals at the end of their career are retiring and where does that knowledge, that expertise

William Tincup: 18:53

So I want to get your take on expectations of talent as it relates to the, the things that come from a PO that they probably wouldn't know to call a PO, they probably call it HR, they probably, you know, comply, compliance, payroll, whatever. Um, what are the expectations of an hourly worker of a corporate? Uh, you know, a small business, a corporate employee, or even generationally, Gen Z, your daughter's 19, my son's 18. So like, what are their expectations going into a company of the things that need to be provided via, uh, again, they might not ever know what a PEO is, but it's through those PEO services, those things are delivered. Like what are those, what are those expectations these days?

Kristen Appleman: 19:37

Sure, you know, I, I, my daughter has, you know, had some part time jobs, um, you know, as she, through, through high school and now she's in college and I, I, I have to giggle a little bit because she'll come home and want to talk about the day or talk about what, you know, her leader did or her boss did and, or a team leader in the, you know, on the work site and, uh, you know, she'll say like, mom, like, they're just not very friendly, you know, or, you know, they don't even smile and, I don't even get a thank you. And I, and it really will get her down of like, I don't feel appreciated. And I, I'm not sure I want to be at a place that they can't even tell me thank you. And on one hand, she's very right. Like the gratefulness. Appreciation, feeling seen, feeling heard, feeling valued. These are all elements, especially for a human resources dynamic, that we've got to do a better job of in the workplace. Leaders have to dial up that capability and develop that muscle and the empathy muscle. Um, at the same time, there's a resilience factor that, a grittiness factor that I also see as an opportunity, uh, for her, and I don't want to generalize it across all of Gen Z, but that is also an element that, you know, I'm looking for in a workplace is, is this workplace going to give me the tools, the opportunities, the training to build up my resilience, um, because I am going to have tough days. And I love the fact that Gen Z is much more open about mental health. My daughter, you know, we have very long discussions about it. Um, and she has that expectation of my employer. I want to ensure that they respect. I may be having a bad day. And do they know how to notice that and to modify their approach? To get the best out of me, for me to be my best self when I come to work, um, knowing that they're not the clinical, you know, they're not the therapist, but to have the empathy of appreciation. I see that even here in ADP with our, our Gen Z, and I think that's also causing, uh, in a good way, be it, um, Gen X, Gen Y, you're a traditionalist, it's becoming something that maybe it was a taboo topic, you know, in the past years, but now. We're, you know, I'm a parent dealing with this rise of mental health, social media, dynamic challenges, um, and being very cognizant of it, that everyone shows up to work to do their best. I, whenever I would hear William like, Oh, it's, you got to have work life balance. I think that is the most bogus term out there. It is about work life integration. You don't just magically shut off who you are when you walk in the door at home or in the office. I It is part of your being, and we spend so much time in the office and so much of our lives, if you don't like the people around you, that you don't respect, they don't respect you, you don't respect them, you don't feel like they have your best interest, that's going to be a very lonely, it might be a lonely life and a lonely job, because that doesn't, um, it's just not how it needs to be or should be, uh, and I think that that's causing other generations to realize, hey, this is important, These are things that either a family member or they themselves are going through in the pandemic even push that faster for those changes to be made. Um, and again, it all comes, you wrap it in with Gen AI, it comes down to fear, you know, there's the fear of belonging, there's the fear of change, there's a fear of being, um, competent and the fear of, Of having, you know, the expertise and knowledge that I'm going to be around, that I'm going to be needed in the years, years ahead. And, uh, I do see where employers have to step up. They have to be more, um, I don't want to say that they have to be the parent, but there is, in many ways, a leader has Certain, what I'd say, inherent responsibilities to take care of their employees. It's a privilege to lead. It's a privilege to be responsible for as many lives as I am in my own organization. I take that privilege very seriously. Because I want them to be their best. I want that best for them. And if someone's in a leadership role or in a business ownership role and that same desire isn't there, I don't know that that person should be leading people or responsible for The workplace because the livelihood. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it's not just the person in the workplace. It's the family. It's the kids. It's the parent. And I'm part of the sandwich generation right now. I'm a Gen Xer. So I've got a 80 year old mother and she lives close by, but I have to help take care of her at the same time. I've got teenagers. I'm still taking care of them. That never

William Tincup: 24:39

ends, by the way, that's, uh, what I've heard from my mother, we're in the same situation, is that it, uh, never ends, that, uh, that taking care of the children. We thought it was just to 18. Yeah, that was a lot. We were lied to that, uh, that, that just kind of continues until they're, until actually we're dead. Uh, and then it discontinues at that point. Um, if we were to think of David metaphorically as the small business owner, what are their, what are their needs these days? So, you know, things that come to mind are obviously, Goliath could be the government, Goliath could be compliance, Goliath could be competition, etc. So, like you're interacting, you're, you're, all of your staff is interacting with small business leaders. What are, what's changed in their worlds? Like what is top of mind, what's keeping them up at night? What's top of mind for them, for them these days?

Kristen Appleman: 25:30

Sure. I mean, you certainly have the economic forces, which have always been one of those what keeps me up at night is can my business sustain? Right now, I mean, interest rates are just, you know, that's been a unique dynamic this year. And what does that impact on being able to do credit lines and grow the business in ways? Especially if times were tight during the pandemic and had to make some of those cutbacks and survive. Uh, you know, it's turning from the survive the last few years to now I want to get back into a thrive environment. Um, and so where I see our business owners, our clients, um, you know, coming to us is they, just like employees need, you know, look to them for help. They're looking to us to say, I, I don't necessarily even know where to start. I don't know what's right or wrong and I can have all the good intent in the world and still be wrong. You know, I'm trying to do the right thing, but I'm doing the wrong thing. Um, and that can be very hard for a business owner. And so I think they're looking to us to say, help me understand, I gotta get the basics right. Like payroll, compliance, benefits. Retirement. A lot of those are just table stakes. They're basics. You've got to do, you know, a good quality offering, but you also have to administer it in a compliant manner so the government doesn't come, you know, chasing after you and, you know, the government's, um, there's more and more regulations and they're not always easy to decipher. Um, and and______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Dialing up of enforcement, it's very visible and I, my prediction is that continues. I don't think anyone would argue with that. I expect continued enforcement. Um, but when it comes to, hey, I need beyond just the basics, it's somebody for them to talk to about their own culture. And so in TotalSource, We have what's called a client HR business partner. And that's the individual that works with, you know, a client to say, okay, what's keeping you up at night? What is the culture you want to have in your organization? What are the values? You know, what does the data tell us about your workforce? Is it a diverse workforce based on the type of industry, your location, your gender, um, the skill sets? Are you able to, you know, minimize the retention if you're having to hire? What does that look like? You know, are you able to get quality talent and do it in a manner that is generous? um, efficient, um, but also effective. Um, I'm a believer of the one bad apple rule. Bad apple can really spoil a bunch. And, you know, hiring, um, too often, we want to hire quickly, get that warm body in a seat. And that's, to me, the worst thing you can do. Get the right person that's going to embody what is important to your organization. And if you don't know what's important, Then have that just conversation with yourself. Have that conversation with, you know, with the PEO because that's incredibly important to know who you are, who you want to be, what's your mission, vision, values, what's the culture you want to have. Um, you know, and for those that you put into leadership or you put into key decision making capacity in the business, do they know what those are? And in our, is there an approach if something is not going right to be able to do that? Uh, and I, I see that's a continued need for. That training dynamic, I've seen organizations as well struggle with, I really do want to say the right thing. I really am trying to be culturally sensitive, you know, to things that are going on around the world and in our own country and and certainly the world right now. I, it's, there's not a lot of tolerance sometimes in the workplace, and it has become harder, uh, you know, for an employer to say, hey, I want to, I value diversity, I value open discussion and different opinions, uh, that's good intention. It can go awry really fast, and it can spin out very fast, and it's a very fine line. It's a fine line I walk in my role of, I want to encourage open thought and, you know, healthy debate, but there are topics that can very quickly go down a road that, ooh, I might have offended somebody, not ill intent, but that's. They're reality, and I believe, believe our perception is reality, and so how do you ensure, um, that that occurs? I have seen where business owners are also saying, hey, how do I build that resilience of tolerance, of openness, of empathy for people who've lived in different shoes? Uh, throughout their life, um, and that's a tough one that, you know, we're, we're, we're spending more and more discussion around, uh, and I'm seeing like in certain benefits, you know, dynamics too of desire of, I'm not the clinical specialist if my employee is exhibiting mental health needs and I want them to have mental well being, but I need more resources than to give to my employees. And how do I recognize You know, if there is something going on, that I can do something about it, um, you know, and it could, it's gonna be lost. It could just simply be someone's lost a parent, someone's lost a loved one, uh, something traumatic has happened, and How do you, you know, take care of that person? And it goes back to, I believe, leadership's a privilege. Being a business owner is a privilege to, to take care of your team, and the tools and resources to, to help you identify, but then what do you do once you identify a need that you're able to get the right type of resources for them? Um, I've seen a rise of, of individuals Wanting their employers to provide more benefits, be it in fertility, be it in, you know, tuition assistance, education, debt support, because, uh, you know, you're seeing those that are buying houses are becoming older and older, and we're seeing this shift by generation, and as a result, my generation, you know, I might have been able to buy a house in my mid twenties, But if current generation doesn't have the financial means to it, there's going to be a need for more ongoing education on how to plan for that, how to manage savings and investment. Um, how to take care of, uh, tuition, you know, debt that may have occurred, and I know those are hot topics that a small business owner, again, they're just, they're not prepared to have, and having a partner that's able to, to step you through that and to, to handle it, um, becomes an, an important need, and then in the event that you do have that employee who is upset with how something has been handled, um, you know, good intent, there's that phrase, the road to you know what is paved with good intentions, friends. Uh, how do you have a partner that can help you then understand the facts of the situation, um, doing the investigation, helping a business owner if their, you know, defense is actually needed, it gets to that level, and those are intricate dynamics, and those can also be very significant, um, legal actions. That can take down a business if not handled correctly. Well,

William Tincup: 32:58

and I'll give you a funny story before, uh, before we go. Um, a hundred years ago, I owned an ad agency. And again, we had a PO work with us and I had the, uh, the, my business, uh, HR business partner called me and said, Hey, we need to do a safety audit. And I'm like, yeah, we don't have forklifts, like we're good. We're solid. Cause now we, we, we, we really do need to come out and just kind of do a, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's quick. It's painless. You know, it's this, that and the other. Ergonomic. Yeah. Yeah. We really need to come out and do a safety audit. I'm like. Uh, okay. All right. I relented. Uh, she came out and they found 136 infractions.

Kristen Appleman: 33:38

I can believe it. I, um, I, I can believe it because, you know, that again, you think, oh, I'm in an office environment. Yeah. What am I

William Tincup: 33:47

doing? Come on. Seriously. We're not doing what talks this way. Toxic waste. Why would this be a thing? She walked me back through them one by one, and she just walked around the floor plan, it was about 10, 000 square feet, and she walked around the floor plan, she goes, okay, so let's take a look at this, this, this, this situation that we have right here. I'm like, what are we looking at? She's like, you've, you've daisy chained these, uh, you've daisy chained these, uh, I

Kristen Appleman: 34:12

knew that's where

William Tincup: 34:12

you were going to go. You knew where I was going? You knew where I was going, right? You've daisy chained about nine of these different things, uh, uh, from one electrical plug. That's, that could easily cause a fire. And I'm like You have

Kristen Appleman: 34:23

things hanging from the ceiling. You're not, you don't have enough space between, you know, in the aisle.

William Tincup: 34:28

Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. So for those that are listening at home, when she's talking about the HR business partner, I immediately think of just nothing but positive things, uh, from my experiences with BOs, but also things that I, of course, thought I knew better. And when the HR business partner, you know, I reluctantly went into it and we did a safety check. And, uh, there, now I look at it completely differently, that, you know, like in an office environment, there was. A ton of things that could go sideways quickly. So, uh, uh, Kristen, thank you so much for carving out time for us. This has been a wonderful topic

Kristen Appleman: 35:01

to explore. I can, you can tell I love this conversation because I, um, HR, you know, professional by trade and just, I care about people and businesses. And I think this, it's a beautiful thing when you get to do what you love every day. A hundred percent. It's

William Tincup: 35:16

not even work. Nope. It's certainly not. Thanks for everyone listening, audience. I appreciate you. And until next time.